@killemall: From what it appears , I have convinced you on majority of the issues that we were discussing regarding Pak's storyline . I'll address only the relevant portions of your post here :
I think you are confusing the battle forum rule. Its that, unless otherwise stated its the most recent version of the character. That applies if a character is retconned , Celestials arent, most of DC character however are.
We dont normally ignore the whole established chronology of the character, unless the character is potrayed completely differently, for example: Demogorge.
I'd presume from what's mentioned in the Forum Rules directory , that in any thread unless specified otherwise , we count the most recent version of the character . An example : Franklin Richards has been mind-controlled before , yet under Hickman's pen he was portrayed as being capable of resisting the Mad Celestials' attempt at a mindrape .
Same goes for Oblivion supposedly not being capable of destroying Juggernaut . In the most recent account of that encounter , we have learnt that Juggernaut actually died in that instance , so again the "most recent takes precedence" rule is invoked to showcase that Juggernaut never resisted Cyttorak .
Kubik's statement never made a lot of sense to me personally given how cosmic cube themselves are potrayed but its on panel as well as backed by handbook so i dont have much of a ground to argue against it. It weird though seeing what Thanos did with a CCU, or what CCU has done in many differently realities celestials being above CCU seems a bit odd.
That would presuppose that Cube Beings are on the same level as CCUs . I understand that it would be logical to think so , but that's not really the case , as Cube Beings , for all their power , haven't really defeated any major Abstracts worth mentioning . From what I have gathered , as a CCU evolves , it subconsciously puts restrictions on itself , which could account for a fully matured Cube Being considering itself to be inferior to the Abstracts of the universe . That statement of Kubik stands .
Galactus vs Scarier vs The Other apparently has universal. I couldnt find Matt's formspring page, so i asked the question to Brevroot as well as Hickman both replied it being universe (although Hickman said he hasnt read it but believes it to be universal). Then i also checked the issue apart from the supposedly destruction being better than what Mikaboshi did everything else seem to be referring to a universal destruction. I had it in my mind that Mikaboshi destroyed the multiverse, 3 different bio state it to be universal, in fact Incredible Hulk issue immediately after that (cant recall the exact issue number, the same issue where Hulk goes to fight Zeus, the actual fight takes place next issue) addresses the feat as universal as well. I am more thinking Mikaboshi's feat itself was universe and the destruction from fight likely on the same magnitude.
Hickman didn't write that issue , and you know how I feel about Brevoort being brought up in these discussions because of the way he trolls fans .
Anyways , Oblivion literally stated that "should Scrier and the Other finally collide...the end of all universes is nigh..." . Plural . You have the scans , you can check again .
a. Being defeated in an alternate reality by human evolved beyond their normal standard due to the bomb set out by Highevolultionary (What if High Evoluationary won the Evolutionary war)
b. Requiring a whole group to contain Ego Prime.
c. Unable to beat and having to retreat against the Galactus Engine.
d. Being stalemated by Franklin Richard (kid)
e. Phoenix Jean being able to burn off Arishem hand yet Celestial doing nothing to retaliate. (i have not actually read this issue)
f. Needing a whole army and still struggling against the Goblin force.
a. Alternate reality . Doesn't count for 616-Celestials .
b. It wasn't clear whether they were actually fighting Super-Ego or aiding him .
c. That was PIS . In the very same comic it was literally mentioned that all the Abstracts present were barely holding the GE back , but after the Celestials and Tenebrous retreated , Galactus was shown as holding it at bay all on his own . This is especially stupid considering that the more energy he expends , the weaker Galactus becomes , and if in the starting , with help from dozens of his peers he could only barely hold the GE back , then there's no way that after a prolonged battle , wherein he's bound to have expended a great deal of energy and is clearly becoming hungry/weaker , when the rest of his peers have retreated , that Galactus alone should be able to hold back the GE , even if it is momentarily .
d. It wasn't a stalemate , more like a brief scuffle to buy the Future Foundation enough time . Franklin just warped their blasts and bodies with flowers , reality alterations which they shrugged off . He then resisted their mindrape attempt . That's the entirety of their "battle" . Not to mention that Ashema in Heroes Reborn no-sold the blasts of a pissed off Franklin .
e. She merely destroyed his thumb and it was after uniting the collective psyches of that planet's population with her shard of the Phoenix Force and concentrating it through Cyclops' visor .
f. Alternate future . Plus , I don't see how this is a low showing considering what it took to ultimately beat the Goblin Entity(the power of the Nexus which was at least multiversal in scope) .
Ok lets see:
1. What i am saying is these monsters where not meant to be a kryptonite to celestial themselves (which is a point you already addressed above)
2. Celestial were the one who created life, then the monsters were created who were said to be threat to life, one way of looking at that would be threat to the conventional life as opposed to a major threat to celestial themselves.
Again , that is presupposing that these monsters are only limited to being capable of destroying conventional life when such has not been mentioned on-panel . These monsters were designed to destroy life . The Celestials are living beings . These monsters could potentially consume everything within the multiverse . The Celestials are part of the multiverse . These monsters are energy ticks . The Celestials contain vast amounts of energy . See where I am going here ?