Ok , i picked the location because I thought an open area would give the advantage to me,but this spot seems to closed in and seems to give you an advantage. It was hard to find a middle ground.
So let me know if you can think of a better place for the battle.
Otherwise just post when you can
Ps.
You didnt answer me on how you feel about me using the Angel Cannon? Here?
Like I said before, I didnt like the map, I put in a different one to see what you think.
(make sure you read the things on top too, specifying size of the grave stones and such )
what do you think of it?
I didnt really like the other map, because as I was thinking about it, When you play that map, alot of the time it can just be run around until you see someone, and that doesnt seem like a fight to me. This area has some cover too, but it feels like more of a fight then a run around.
Also, this area has more useful cover. It is stronger than small things of steel, and also you can actually duct behind cover at most time instead of getting caught in narrow passages.
Its still not the best not but, sure what would be better honestly, what do you think of the map? And when do you think youll have your opener up? Im gunna start working on mine now.
the location is perfect and no you cant use Vash nuke attack because that would be a oneshot thing.
kk Sounds fair, location will stay at the graveyard and no Nuke arm, I havent seen all the feats for movie wolvie so I wasnt sure. So i will ad that to the op
In 1845,James Howlett a young boy living in Canada sees his father killed by Thomas Logan.
The trauma activates his mutation and his powers.He then kills Thomas with his bone claws who then revals that he is James real father.James and his half brother Victor Creed escapes and they spend the next century as soliders.
Experience:
Logan has fougth in wars and battles for more than 200 years. Here is a list of wars he has been:
American Civil War.
WW 1 and WW 2.
Vietname War.
He along with other 4 mutants fougth all of the members of the Brotherhood of Mutants.
Logan also haves great leadership skills and has a great stratigic mind due to his experiences.
He haves 200 years worth of experience in warfare,strategies,unarmed and armed combat.
Since you kept yours pretty simple I will do the same and follow a similar layout.
Intro
Vash is
(Major Trigun Anime Spoilers)
Vash is a plant, basically a giant reserve of energy, and all that packed into a tall lean humanoid form.
He possesses super human strength, speed, accuracy, senses, and just about everything else.
He walks planet gunsmoke in search of his "brother" Knives looking for some closure to his life.
Experience
Vash has lived much of his life on a planet Gunsmoke. A world filled with violence, were even grandmothers pack heat
he has torn apart the gung ho guns, a group of super human assassins who are well trained and possess lost technology. They number Thirteen major members in total and each could murder waves of people.
he has defeated defeated the "psychic" psychotic Legato. And even Knives, someone with similar powers to his own.
Powers
Vash has A multitude of abilities, these include:
Insane Marksmanship
Super Human Spacial Awareness
Super Human Speed and Agility
Super Human Senses
Super Human Strength and Stamina
Healing Factor
Genius Level Intelect
A few other things, which I will get into as this goes on.
Lets get to the fun stuff.
I tried to reply fast to you so I could catch you online. But I had to do something, maybe youre still one
Vash's experience does not even come close to that of Logan.
Logan has 200+ years worth of experience in just about everything you could think about.
Vash has spent his life, on a planet filled with death and fighting. His whole life has been a war.
Also he is 152 years old at the least. So its not like Logan has an age advantage.
His 200+ years of experience in warfare and battles would allow him to study his opponent and think of a way to beat him.
And when has he actually done this?
Gallery
Here is Vash using his smarts figuring out how to get past this persons hypnosis
Now let's see some feats for The Wolverine
Round 1:
Durability/HF:
I edited out the examples, they can be seen in your post.
And yes his durability is very nice. But that far from means I cannot take him out
Vash's regular bullets have stopped a massive fist as big as a car
And, Vash has another trick up his sleeve, he can use his energy channeled through his bullets to make them even more powerful
These Bullets are extremely powerful, they are able to shoot through knives blades, which easily rip through steel and stone.
They are also strong enough to even go through Knives angel arm. Which has withstood bullets, cannons, And even more I wont go into yet.
So lets focus on the blades.
Knives blades can tear apart buildings, and spaceships.
And yet when defending himself. Vash Seems to shoot through them just fine.
I have more I could go into with the angel bullets. But lets save that for the Next post. I think I have shown that I can at least knock out wolverine. As I think if you average out what and how he has regened from, I will be able to knock him out.
So far, I think I have shown I should be able to at least put wolvie down after a couple of shots. But we can discuss that latter.
My Points
Physicals
Now, Wolverine may be strong and have some good physicals, he is dangerous , but to be clear, Vash is no pushover
He has very powerful strength himself and when pushed into a physical confrontation he has ended them quickly.
Vash has the raw power to kick away cannonballs without hurting himself, showing both durability and strength.
He has been able to do a one handed standing push up while broken and battered to the core
All of these means he has a tight core and power to back him up in this battle.
Accuracy
Vash's level of accuracy is amazing. He can do things on level with some of the best shooters out there.
To give just a few examples:
Gallery
Shoots the fuses off of a group of dynamite bombs.
He was also able to:
Shoot many Tiny small straps off of an oncoming attacker.
Knock bullets out of the Air with rocks.
As well as much more I will get into
Speed
This is a big one. I do not know for sure what movie Wolverine's top speed is, But from what I know, Vash takes the cake.
Gallery
In the above scan, Vash is being targeting in 27 different spots at the same time, and yet not one attack can hit him. This shows not only his speed, but his ability to deal with attacks.
Vash continually dodges bullets, he has dodged regular fire, machine gun fire, mini gun fire, point blank , long range he has dodged it all.
He has shot a trained gunman 6 times before they could fire one shot.
And as I have shown before, he dodges and shoots knives blades, which slice apart buildings, and building sized things in an instant. And keeps up with Knives himself.
Conclusion
Vash's Experience is not to small compared to Wolverine's, and so that will not be an advantage. They have both fought some mooks ( war, Vash walking the planet) And some more exceptional people ( the xmen villans, knives legato and the gungho guns) it could be picked apart, but I would call their experienne.
Vash has enough fire power to knock Wolverine out.
Vash is fast and agile enough, a casual bullet timer, someone who blitzes people with impressive speed on their own, (ie slicing machinegun fire out of the air )
The Above will allow me to keep back and keep shooting you.
I have put forth how I think I will beat you, I have addressed your healing factor and I have demonstrated my physicals and speed, and showed you some of his feats. I Have gone into the core of things and I will be demonstrating how I will use versatility to my advantage, and bolster my arguments in this section of the debate.
In this post I brought up decent amount of things so we can jump into which aspects we think will be the most important.
I have not put to many scans, As you have not, so I have used them here and there, I do not want to be unfair. I have put enough where I think it matters, and if it becomes and issue, I can put them there. But I did not want to over whelm you. If you are unable to post scans of any sort (like gifs) for some reason then let me know and I will try to be fair about it, I included some scans here when proof was good to be shown, the issue would be explained better with it,( a picture can explain better than words sometimes ) or It was needed for some other reason.
I will counter some of your argument first then i lay out the stratagy.
Your physicals vs My skill:
Vash may hold the adventages in the physical department but Wolverine's skill makes up for it.
Maybe in a straight up hand to hand fight. but even with out guns, Vash has options besides that
Wolverine haves 200+ years of experience in warfare and battles.
He has recived extreme military training for 100 years.He has been to trained in:
American Civil War.
Both World Wars
and the Vietname war.
Like I said, I dont disagree you have good experience, However vash also has 150 years of fighting in a heap of danger.
In The Wolverine,without his healing factor he takes and beats on the hole japenesse mafia after getting shot twice.
Really? How do they explain him taking two shots? Thats a pretty good feat.
He beats Sabertooh(A physicaly superior oponent)while bloodlusted.
Cool.
He has beat a oponent with wonderfull skill.
Who?
Your acurracy vs My HF:
So,Vash is just going to shoot Wolverine?
Wolverine has healed from the impact of a nuke.
He toke 3 addamantium bullets to the head and kept going.
He toke Cyclops optic blasts that are School-busting/Power Plant-busting power level.
Were they full power blasts?
I will add more later.
The IMPACT of a nuke? Did we watch the same scene? He was in a well, and another human also survived. He was also able to outrun the nuke, along side a normal human, on the other hand:
Vash doesn't shoot normal bullets.
He can charge his bullets with his own energy.
Now, lets look at something, These bullets shoot right through Knives blades.
Knives blades are able to do this :
He can tear building Sized spaceships and buildings themselves, and yet Vash can shoot right through Thousands off them.
Vash has also done this
That is knives angel arm, which has withstood
Fire from a starship.
Gallery
However, Vashes bullet goes right through it.
So, he has more than enough fire power to knock him out.
Speed
Wolverine Cannot hit Vash, Vash has dodged knives blades, as well as other attacks, including attacks from knives, who can blitz entire buildings before anyone can even react.
I'm not going to go heavy into this because I havent seen any speed from you.
Conclusion
Vash is fast enough to dodge wolverine and Has enough to put him down, as I said last time.
Wolverine can put him down and localize Vash due to his senses.
And kepp in mind Wolverine skill adventage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OKT5YceMCQ
Here he figths skilled japanese gangsters in a train afther getting shot twice and afther figthing a hole other group of skilled japanese gangsters.All this without his healing factor.
More durabillity feats:
Takes bullets to the fore head from a expert marksmen Agent Zero and heals instantlly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ayt4nIZCLQ
Here in his younger body Wolverine takes bullets to the chest and regerates quickly.
Wolverine can put him down and localize Vash due to his senses.
I dont know what you mean by this, Wolverine shall never leave Vash's Eyesight, and so I doubt there will be much tracking with his advanced senses.
And kepp in mind Wolverine skill adventage.
Skill does not help at such a range, and with an opponent he cant hit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OKT5YceMCQ
Here he figths skilled japanese gangsters in a train afther getting shot twice and afther figthing a hole other group of skilled japanese gangsters.All this without his healing factor.
Taking those shots are pretty impressive, but all in all, What he can do without the healing factor doesnt matter here. And his healing factor is not going to let him take the shots I have.
More durabillity feats:
Takes bullets to the fore head from a expert marksmen Agent Zero and heals instantlly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ayt4nIZCLQ
Solid Feat.
Here in his younger body Wolverine takes bullets to the chest and regerates quickly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2zYHWDZKo
I very well could be missing something, However, It seems the people who shoot him are not in the same shot, and its from a trailer, so hard to tell whats going on, however, I can accept he can recover quickly from bullets.
These are some impressive feats from wolverine, but I am really not seeing how he is going to stand up to even Vash's regular bullets, which hit with enough force to blast back a car, let alone the special bullets he also possesses, And I have shown the force that those can hit with.
Vash's Speed.
Lets look at what the people he fights with can do :
]
Knives can blitz an entire building.
Gallery
Before anyone can react.
He has also blitzed an entire team of sound based attack users.
And yet Vash is able to keep up and out speed him.
Here you can see his opponent is able to slice bullets out of the air with ease.
Vash himself is a casual bullet timer.
Vash has been attacked by Knives blades which are high in number, can tear apart buildings and are extremely small. Yet Vash is able to shoot and dodge them proving his insane speed.
I have already shown him being attacked in 27 different places, and yet he perfectly dodges.
Here he is surprised by Puppets with machines guns.
Gallery
Vash's Power
I have already mentioned how Vash shot through Knives angel arm, and shown it survive attacks from a space ship.
Here is one more feat from it:
Gallery
Given all this I have no question, from the feats you have shown, that Vash will be able to knock wolverine out.
The best feat you have is tanking a "nuke" that didnt do the damage of a nuke, he did not tank it, ( he actually out ran it and jumps in a well) and a human also survived along side of him.
Versatility
Vash also has tons of versatility , the knives that knives uses, vash has his own versions that he can send out to attack,
He also has his angel shield, which blocked 100s of bullets ( which come from a gun used to level buildings )
Conclusion
I have not seen yet how Wolvie is going to lay a hand on the fast man shooting super bullets in his face.
I have not seen much speed from you at all, where I have shown and said how Vash is able to take on enemies that are hyper sonic bullet slashers, people that blitz entire buildings, etc. He is able to dodge Knives knives, which cut through entire massive space ships, buildings and other things with ease and speed, but Vash was able to dodge every single one. So I cant see Wolvie tagging him, and if he does, he is not going to hit anything vital, so even if you think you could tag me , say once or twice, Vash wouldnt go down.
On the other hand, I have demonstrated that Vash can hit strings that are microns thick, over 100 at a time in the middle of combat. I have also shown that he is able to use attacks that are extremely strong. Both of these things show that Wolverine can not hurt Vash, but Vash could surely hit him. Vash hits bullet timers, he hits all the other stuff I have shown, Wolverine will get tagged and he will go down.
@easternwind: Can we get to votes now,please?And hankyou for a awesome CAV!
Huh? Your ready for votes already? Time was its been a while but I feel theres still stuff left to discuss Well, I am not really ready, I assumed you werent , dont you want to make one last post to respond to my points? You havent said anything about Vash's speed, and a couple other issues. And I still have some important stuff I havent mentioned.
If you really want to , I can open it for votes, But I would rather have us make conclusions at least. If anything, let me just add one or two things, since they are important, but I didnt mention them yet.
I think that sometime Logan will outlast Vash and he will tag Vash.
Vash moves at multiple times the speed of bullets. I dont see how he could even get near Vash.
When Logan gets a hold of Vash,Vash will be too tired to counter and he will lose in a hand to hand figth because of Logas skill advantage.
Logan wont "get a hold of" Vash, he cant even touch if, if by miracle he touched Vash at all, it would be the a glancing blow, not that a shot would kill Vash anyway He is not Human.
And Logan has taken 3 addamantium bullets without going down so i think that he can take Vashs bullets.
Vash's Regular bullets can push back a TON ( 2000lbs) my charged bullets have feats I have posted that speak for themselves, just look at the hits knives angel arm can take, and how Vash's shot goes right through it.Please dont lowball my characters.
@easternwind: Im not lowballing.Addamantium is a indestructable metal and has taken a lot of punishiment.Mix that with Wolverines durability and healing factor and you will se that he can take thode bullets.
Wolverine has taken heat and impact from a nuclear bomb.That human only survive because he was covered in steel and Wolverine was there acting as a human shield.
Wolverine haves much more stamina than Vash as he can take being impaled and covered in iron,being trow miles away into a lake,getting drowned in the bottom of said lake while still covered ,traped and impalled by the iron wires and still remaining concious for more than 15 minutes until rescue arived to help him.
In the cinematic universe he is decepitade as being immortal.
Just to prove my point,in Brazil,the movie The Wolverine is called Wolverine Immortal.
Conclusion:
Wolverine stamina,durability and healing factor will allow him to win.
@stealth_warrior: They didnt take the force of a nuke and steel wouldnt protect a human from a nuke, they also both outran it so it couldnt havee been that explosive. The other feats you mention isnt enough to stop the force of Vash's bullets and foreign movie titles are kind of irrelevant . Knives took spaceship attacks described as "the hottest in the universe" and Vash cut through him like butter with his bullets. He has the firepower to take down wolvie but you havent shown at all how wolvie is going to touch Vash who is hypersonic at the least and who deals with enemies who blitz space stations. And vash can also blitz and sever every one of wolvies nerves with his angel strings and also has his angel shield .
@easternwind: Wolverine did survive the impact and heat from a nuke.The human survived for reasons i listred abouve.And even if that wasant a nuke dont know what it is because that bomb oblitorated a island/villages.Wolverine did outrun a nuke.The human dint outran a nuke he started running before Wolverine thats how he escape the impact.
Wolverine is nearly immortal.He haves greater durability,healing factor and he haves a addamantium skelleton that is indestructable.
He has take Cyclops blasts that can also flip a 5-ton jeep(at their minimum power level),that can cut a school in half and that can destroy a nuclear power plant.
He has take 3 addamantium bullets to the head and still not go down.
He has take getting stabbed by addamantium swords and nails.
He has take the heat and impact from a nuke.
He has take getting shot 24 steel tip arrows to the back and not go down.He only go down when all those arrows wore trapped at his back and some guy shot one more arrow that also stock at his back and that had poison at its tip.
He toke Gambit explosives and more kinetic energy attacks.
Conclusion:
Wolverine can take Vashs bullets and he will outlast Vash.
You said the human lived due to steel , nuke heat would not be stopped by steel. Knives survived an attack that laid waste to a portion of the earth. I can get scans on my main computer if you need. The heat was described as the hottest the universe has seen, yetVashes enhanced bullets torn through him. Wovie is tough but I have shown even Vashes regular bullets are strong , his e nchanced ones tear through knives who I have shown has insane durability.
Wolverine was knocked out by regular bullets, he was knocked out by a adamantium bullets and other things as well, someone who can shoot through people that tank spaceship fire will knock him out.
On top of That Vash is so fast Wolvie can touch him.
Vash also has his angel shield and his angel strings to attack and defend
Oh and did I mention , he can fly? He can, he has wings , there is no way Wolverine could touch him even without the wings.
@easternwind: you get my vote, @stealth_warrior Could have done far better with his case, he claimed all these feats but didn't really back them up. The least he could have done was got a link to the movie, post it constantly in each post while telling his opponent what part to skip to in order to see a certain feat.
@deathhero61: Well, he did post a lot of youtube links, I tried to be fair and not Scandump on it. I feel like Speed and Vash's power are big factors Thanks for Voting =) tag anyone else you know.
I tagged you and Wolv08 for each , since I knew you knew anime and IDK what Happened to CorTsar, he knew trigun very well.
@easternwind: I know allot of anime but there are rare cases such as trigun. To be honest im a mainstream type of guy. There are some anime/manga that i check out that nobody else on vine does but.... as for Wolv08 he knows allot of marvel characters well but more specifically wolverine..... sigh.....
@easternwind: I know allot of anime but there are rare cases such as trigun. To be honest im a mainstream type of guy. There are some anime/manga that i check out that nobody else on vine does but.... as for Wolv08 he knows allot of marvel characters well but more specifically wolverine..... sigh.....
This was a mis match from the get go. Vash(No Angel Cannon) would give the real Wolverine a hard time. Post 23 did it for me.
Vash is much more versatile. Also the Adamantium in the XMen Universe is not close to what it is in the Marvel 615 Universe. Especially after that last solo Wolverine Movie.
Versatility
Vash also has tons of versatility , the knives that knives uses, vash has his own versions that he can send out to attack,
He also has his angel shield, which blocked 100s of bullets ( which come from a gun used to level buildings )
@lukehero: mm I dont know what happened to my post, I made a whole post commenting on your comment and its gone =(
To be quick, yeah I think that post really showed he had the speed and power needed.
Not sure why you quoted my versitility though, I do have those 2 things but I didnt go into them much, Vash's sheild would be good for defense and one attack from his strings could Incap wolvie in all honesty.
Thanks for the Vote,
could use some more, I am going to call out the top posters.
@easternwind: Ahh, felt like it was important. Every voter is different.
It is important, I just dont feel I explained those 2 too much BTW I cant find the tourney i was gunna vote in for you feel free to re tag me in any that still need votes.
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