CAV: uugieboogie Vs captain_batman_FTW (VOTING OPEN)

@uugieboogie: You have my vote.

The votings haven't started yet.

@uugieboogie: I just saw one of your first post where you asked me some question right now, it didn't come in my notiication.... I'm just going to answer that, then we'll post the rest of our scans and the the votings may be open.

Just one thing, I think that votes from 69-ballz-deep and wenjun should not count. Don't kno if they have seen this thread, but I think it would be fair if their votes didn't count since the don't care how the debate goes and both of them are biased.

tag please!

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@uugieboogie said:

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@uugieboogie: The issues of the people on venom and the story itself is from #1-6, and in issue 7-8, he was fighting bane.

The radius and distance between the sonics depends on which one he uses, I'm sure he is not going to use the one he used on superman, but he can use the ones he used against the man-bats. The ones he used on the man-bats was low-level sonics, but it will still hurt captain america.

I kinda made a silly thing a few hours ago. I accidently deleted all of my comics and I had to download them all back, but I'm waiting for them to be finished, but until then, I'm just going to name the issues. In detective comics #19-20, he tossed small pellets that just looked like pellets, but it was sonics that put down the man-bats. When he was fighting another man-bat, he tossed a batarang behind the man-bat hitting the wall, (At first I thought he missed) and what happened after it got stuck on the wall, the sonic got activated. In batman #18, he tossed batarangs at three venom enhanced dogs and two of them ran away and the one covered his ears because the sound was to high and squeqy meaning that it was sonics.

I currently don't have the scans, but you can see batman taking out a talon with a freeze grenade in detective comics #9, if it took out the talon. Also, the scan you posted about captain america getting out of the block of ice wasn't a counter either, really. The scientist or whoever they were was warming up the ice making it taw so much faster. Unfortunatly, there are no scientist tawing out the ice in a match against batman. Also, you know that scan you posted from civil war? where tony was beating up cap and hercules got mad? Yes, Steve barely survived that beat down, batman got blasted by Orm's magic lightning and he got knocked out of course, but his suit didn't get damaged, that lightning was powerful enough to knock out superman and wonder woman. If iron man ever was to try and hit superman, superman wouldn't have flinched, neither would wonder woman, but batman survived the same hit as them.

If you want great batman stories, read Snyder's new 52 run on batman, the series is called batman of course. I have also read three issues on dimension z, I'm currently on the fourth and alongside the other comics, dimension z also got deleted.

I'm not done yet, I'm just going to post some scan from Justice league and one feat from nightwing #30, just to wrap it up.

• The sonics he used for Man-bat fight was that a prepped fight or was it a random encounter?

Random encounter.

1. Okay do you know the radius of the sonic attack?

• Which Talon was it? Did the Talon have any feats of his own? & was nobody thawing Steve out when the Ice was on his legs, do you have anything that shows how dense or how hard the ice that Batman's grenades produce?

How hard and dense? Mate, it was dense enough to make a talon look like a statue. He only had ice in his legs, not his entire body, the freeze grenades batman was using, covered up the most of the body, that's why the talons couldn't move, now before you say anything, some talons just as strong and fast as the ones Bruce froze was fighting inside of the batcave while it was -20 degree.

1. Yeah but which Talon was this? Are there any feats for the Talon mentioned in the scan?

• I hope you aren't comparing Batman's durability to Superman & Wonder Woman. That feat is really inconsistent. The stream he used on Batman looks smaller than the one he used on Superman , WW & AM. On top of that the next time he used it on AM he completely tanked it. A lot of ppl dismiss that as a PIS instance.

Actually, it's not PIS seeing as how batman has proven that his armor is strong enough to take blasts like that. Do you know why aquaman survived those blasts? Because he was in the water, that also means that whatever happens, he will just heal back and act as if nothing happened. No, I'm not comparing Batman's durability with Clark and Diana, I'm just saying that he survived the same type of attack. Orm blasted wonder woman and superman with lightning from the sky, but Orm blasted Bruce from the trident, it is still a better durability feat than what captain america has shown by a mile, because everytime Orm blasted aquaman, he got weaker and weaker when he was in the water, batman suvived it and do you know what happened later on when he awakened? He continuted on as if nothing happened, so I believe it's safe to say that batman has better durability due to the armor.

1. He was knocked out by that attack which was different from the attack & it was different from the ones the others were hit with. That doesn't compare really to Cap getting blown up by Gambit, or Cap cutting a whole in his own chest & still being up & mobile. Also lets not forget Cap getting shot in the head & only being down for 12 minutes.

• Okay, I'll upload my last bit of scans after you & we should be done after that.

Yes, and then we'll go over and look at which durability's (I think this one is already set for batman), strenght, speed, skill and equipment is better.

My replies are numbered & underlined

Will do!

@uugieboogie Tag me for voting please!

Gotcha

@uugieboogie said:

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@uugieboogie said:

@captain_batman_ftw said:

@uugieboogie: The issues of the people on venom and the story itself is from #1-6, and in issue 7-8, he was fighting bane.

The radius and distance between the sonics depends on which one he uses, I'm sure he is not going to use the one he used on superman, but he can use the ones he used against the man-bats. The ones he used on the man-bats was low-level sonics, but it will still hurt captain america.

I kinda made a silly thing a few hours ago. I accidently deleted all of my comics and I had to download them all back, but I'm waiting for them to be finished, but until then, I'm just going to name the issues. In detective comics #19-20, he tossed small pellets that just looked like pellets, but it was sonics that put down the man-bats. When he was fighting another man-bat, he tossed a batarang behind the man-bat hitting the wall, (At first I thought he missed) and what happened after it got stuck on the wall, the sonic got activated. In batman #18, he tossed batarangs at three venom enhanced dogs and two of them ran away and the one covered his ears because the sound was to high and squeqy meaning that it was sonics.

I currently don't have the scans, but you can see batman taking out a talon with a freeze grenade in detective comics #9, if it took out the talon. Also, the scan you posted about captain america getting out of the block of ice wasn't a counter either, really. The scientist or whoever they were was warming up the ice making it taw so much faster. Unfortunatly, there are no scientist tawing out the ice in a match against batman. Also, you know that scan you posted from civil war? where tony was beating up cap and hercules got mad? Yes, Steve barely survived that beat down, batman got blasted by Orm's magic lightning and he got knocked out of course, but his suit didn't get damaged, that lightning was powerful enough to knock out superman and wonder woman. If iron man ever was to try and hit superman, superman wouldn't have flinched, neither would wonder woman, but batman survived the same hit as them.

If you want great batman stories, read Snyder's new 52 run on batman, the series is called batman of course. I have also read three issues on dimension z, I'm currently on the fourth and alongside the other comics, dimension z also got deleted.

I'm not done yet, I'm just going to post some scan from Justice league and one feat from nightwing #30, just to wrap it up.

• The sonics he used for Man-bat fight was that a prepped fight or was it a random encounter?

Random encounter.

1. Okay do you know the radius of the sonic attack?

That was a sonic that went in a omnidirection.

• Which Talon was it? Did the Talon have any feats of his own? & was nobody thawing Steve out when the Ice was on his legs, do you have anything that shows how dense or how hard the ice that Batman's grenades produce?

How hard and dense? Mate, it was dense enough to make a talon look like a statue. He only had ice in his legs, not his entire body, the freeze grenades batman was using, covered up the most of the body, that's why the talons couldn't move, now before you say anything, some talons just as strong and fast as the ones Bruce froze was fighting inside of the batcave while it was -20 degree.

1. Yeah but which Talon was this? Are there any feats for the Talon mentioned in the scan?

Unfortuantly, no, that Talon does not have any feats, but it simply doesn't matter, due to the court of owls enhancing all of the talons after William Cobb got defeated by batman.

• I hope you aren't comparing Batman's durability to Superman & Wonder Woman. That feat is really inconsistent. The stream he used on Batman looks smaller than the one he used on Superman , WW & AM. On top of that the next time he used it on AM he completely tanked it. A lot of ppl dismiss that as a PIS instance.

Actually, it's not PIS seeing as how batman has proven that his armor is strong enough to take blasts like that. Do you know why aquaman survived those blasts? Because he was in the water, that also means that whatever happens, he will just heal back and act as if nothing happened. No, I'm not comparing Batman's durability with Clark and Diana, I'm just saying that he survived the same type of attack. Orm blasted wonder woman and superman with lightning from the sky, but Orm blasted Bruce from the trident, it is still a better durability feat than what captain america has shown by a mile, because everytime Orm blasted aquaman, he got weaker and weaker when he was in the water, batman suvived it and do you know what happened later on when he awakened? He continuted on as if nothing happened, so I believe it's safe to say that batman has better durability due to the armor.

1. He was knocked out by that attack which was different from the attack & it was different from the ones the others were hit with. That doesn't compare really to Cap getting blown up by Gambit, or Cap cutting a whole in his own chest & still being up & mobile. Also lets not forget Cap getting shot in the head & only being down for 12 minutes.

No, Orm blasted batman with the same blasts he used on Aquaman, aquaman got weakend multiple times, if it wouldn't have been for the water, aquaman would have been knocked out in the first scan. It's still a better durability feat than what cap has shown, in the same comic, do you know what aquaman was doing? He was trading punches with wonder woman without getting knocked out. Him getting weakend by orm's blast when he got hit should show us just how much batman tanked.
Please, it's pretty obvious that it's, lightning blasts > getting blown by gambit. Yes, the one where he got knocked out with a bullet in his head. How is that a durability feat? You just answered that whole feat yourself, He was down for 12 minutes, batman got slammed into a wall of bricks by superman and he didn't get knocked out. Orm used the same blasts he used on aquaman against batman.

• Okay, I'll upload my last bit of scans after you & we should be done after that.

Yes, and then we'll go over and look at which durability's (I think this one is already set for batman), strenght, speed, skill and equipment is better.

My replies are numbered & underlined

My replies are straight under yours.

The batmobile is bulletproof, nightwing jumped with batman and the roof of the car got destroyed. Not to mention that when batman kicked nightwing, the windows of the bat-boat got shattered. This was without his armor. Just look at those scans, all of them and look at the punishment he took.

The scans I posted with batman's equipment, yes, that. Freeze grenade was random encounter, when he used sonics on the man-bats and superman, it was a random equipment, magnets was a random encounter.
I think I'm done at least, if you have any more scans to show, then do it and then we'll discuss.

@captain_batman_ftw: my internet has been acting up the past few days & I can't post anything either . We can start the voting of you want bro

But with batman's sonic & ice grenades there's nothing to show they'll hit him. Without the radius of his sonic grenade we don't know how far out it goes, Cap can clear a few feet in moments. & I can see Cap dodging an ice grenade. He'll think it's a regualr grenade & he spent an entire war dodging those. As for his suits durability, without PIS involved I don't see Batman suit being stronger than Iron Man's or a tank.

@uugieboogie: Okay, then, it's set. Just go through everyone that has asked to be tagged and tag some yourself, and let the votes commence. Lol.

I can't do it now, cause I'm on my phone.

@captain_batman_ftw: lol me neither but I'll do it as soon as I get home . I get off of work in about 2 hours

@uugieboogie: Alrighty, then.

VOTING OPEN! Sorry if I missed you & sorry if you didn't want to be tagged, I pulled a few names from the callout phonebook. This is both @captain_batman_ftw & my first CAV. Please let us know what you think!

Cool, I'll read through the thread and vote in a little bit.

@uugieboogie: ill be able to vote for ya soon gotta go to work soon, but after i can give ya my answer.

Gimme a bit to read through it!

Jmarshmallow

In the end I think @captain_batman_ftw effectively countered @uugieboogie's argument and presented better points so my vote goes to him.

@johnfrank120: Thank you. Thanks for also voting and using your time one this debate :D.

@uugieboogie: @captain_batman_ftw:

I've read through this about 3 times now, it's a very close debate and and the counter arguments and well thought out. I think almost all points were backed with good scans. In the end I think captain_batman_ftw had more scans that left questions unanswered, while the Captain America scans were definitive, not to mention how many good examples there were for each category (strength, durability, etc.). Great debate you guys, I gotta give my vote to uugieboogie

I gotta give it to Captain Batman on this one. My vote was going to go to uugie, but the durability scans were too much to ignore.

@rootsunderdog: thanks !

I think that uungieboogie did a better job of showcasing captain America's skill set so my vote goes to him

It was very, very close. You both did a good job and each brought great feats to the table. But after reading through it, I have to give it to captain batman. His durability feats for the suit and in general were pretty insane. uugieboogie almost had me convinced halfway through because he showed lots of scans of Cap beating quality opponents, but I simply don't think that uugieboogie was able to come up with an effective counter for Batman's gadgets, particularly the sonics. So my vote goes to Captain Batman.

@realitywarper@chaos911 I forgot to tag you guys sorry

@uugieboogie: alright I'll try to check this out but prepared for an underwhelming answer on who I think wins

@uugieboogie brought out some great feats for cap, but like Bourne I didnt see an effective counter for Batmans gadgets. You both did a great job, but I'm going to have to give it to @captain_batman_ftw in a vey close argument.

I thought I shown a counter for every gadget besides the sonics. All I wanted to know was the radius of his sonic gadgets & which one he carried consistently without prep. I've seen an AoE sonic weapon & a directional sonic weapon. The directional sonic weapon I posted a scan of Cap dodging a sonic blast from an opponent.

You're right it was mainly the Sonics, My bad.

@uugieboogie: you get my vote

Read it twice to double make sure, My vote goes to Uugie imo only because i felt the scans were able to not only support why Cap would win over bat, but showed some excellent feats for cap that i think a lot of us forget. I feel that batman's side was just, and was outstanding on giving us the why batman would win, and i feel due to your scans he should win, i just fee uugie provided some amazing evidence that suppots why in this argument/debate alone that cap would win a majority. Sorry it seems confusing, but if u want me to go more in depth feel free to ask i can try to explain it better. Basically the main point is i felt in this debate the scans uugie provided us would have us view cap winning more than batman ( not thinking about outside information ), but just what was displayed. Anyway great debate and captain batman u did a great job for not being here for very long amazing job.

Thanks! Care to share why?

@uugieboogie: Mostly what others have said before, your knowledge on cap really shined and you posted better and more relevant feats. Though @captain_batman_ftw did a good job of illustrating batman's versatility, I felt like your feats outclassed his and you gave a better overall opinion. Well done by both sides, could have gone either way really for me.

@uugieboogie: You get my vote too.
I guess the physicals added to the impressive skills are enough to reduce the effectiveness of Batman's gadgets.
I think that the raw advantages of the extreme condition of Batman are a bit under Cap America's enhancements and combat skills.
The versatility of his shield is proved too. :)

You get my vote!!!

@captain_batman_ftw: You get my vote!!

For anyone that read my kast post with scans and such, it was a little messy because I was stressing alot.

@captain_batman_ftw: Both of u were doing an awesome job. This is very close, counter and recounter made.

You get my vote for explaining the versatility of gadgets n unpredictable combat strategy of bats.

Good debating guys, both of you represented the characters very well.

My vote goes to @uugieboogie: I feel he countered Batman's equipment very well; and showed his superior physical stats, that would give him the edge/slight advantage.

captain_batman_FTW: You represented Batman very well.

@captain_batman_ftw: @uugieboogie: Can I vote on this? I'd like to make a honest post about your fight..

Yes, of course, those who has not been tagged are also allowed to vote.

Captain_batman_FTW: 7 votes.

Uugieboogie: 6 points.

I counted and this is what has happened this far, you can also check the answer to the votes yourself just to be sure.

@nickthedevil: @appzashok: @matchesmalone21: @idude: @thebourneposter: @batman-hush: @johnfrank120: Thank you all for your votes. I appreciate it a lot :D

@captain_batman_ftw: @uugieboogie:

From what I've seen, and considering this was your first CaV, I believe you both did a good job but there's still room for improvement. One thing you must work on is formatting.

When debating, it's always better when you present a clean and organized post with your arguments, specially when it comes with scans. Posting lots of scans only shows you lack real arguments, and tend to polute the topic at the same time that turns it harder to load.

This is important because you are not only debate for yourselves but also for voters, those who will determine the victor based on which one of you debated better. A good tip is to use the spoiler block to hide your scans in order to make it easy for us to see.

I saw that you more than once quoted a already big post full of pictures, which is a bad thing since we don't need to see it so many times, just use the quote function to bring parts of arguments and not scans.

As for the debate, it seems that you relied more on presenting what your character can do, posting their feats of abilites, order than proving howthey are going to win this battle. Remember that in a CaV we choose the best debater, not the one who posted the best "respect feats".

That being said, I believe cpFTW was slightly superior, but barely won.

Hope you guys take this as a positive cristicism from someone who also did not know much at the beginning but that was humble enough to learn from mistakes and accept criticism to improve more each day.

@higorm: Thanks for your vote. The main thing about criticism is actually about to learn from your mistakes, that's actually what we needed in our first CaV. I remember my teacher years ago telling me that when you are in a debate, you need to take the criticism and ask people about their feedback, so you can improve yourself in debating and learn from your mistakes. Thanks for your vote anyways. This was our first time, we can always improve and learn from our mistakes.

Captain_batman_FTW: 8 votes.

Uugieboogie: 6 votes.

@captain_batman_ftw: Excellent. You can count on me for future guidance if you want, I'll be more than glad to help.

@higorm: I'll be needing it, so thanks.