CAV: Ultimate wolverine (CadenceV2) VS Black Panther (Jashro44)

@CadenceV2

@jashro44

Rules

• This is black panther when he had the heart shaped herb
• Black panther has energy daggers and anti-metal claws
• Ultimate wolverine
• Morals are on
• Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation
• Random encounter

Location

• Begin 30 feat apart
• Fight takes place here:

@CadenceV2

Read through the OP and see if its fair, if it is feel free to go first.

@CadenceV2: All right.

@CadenceV2:

1) Dazzler hits Wolvie with all she has. She has destroyed multiple Sentinels with those blast.

2-3) North Star send him to another state. Considering how quick Iceman was rush to the Infirmary and had Scans done (usually few hours in a ER that's busy) Wolverine makes it back to the school. I doubt it KO him at all to make it back that fast.

1) Wolverine takes bullets like a champ.

2) Middle Scan is him having Steel melt off his body by Phoenix heat.

3)Last one is a shotgun to the head. Still good to go.

Wolverine's Healing Factor vs a Mutant who disintegrates organic matter.

One of the best feats of Healing is Ultimate Wolvie. After having his head pulled off by Hulk he is still alive. Basically immortal.

Ignore the Play of Words as Adamantium being broken. It wasn't. It is explain later the Adamantium on Wolvie does not fully cover Wolverines skeleton. Especially the Joint areas.

Black panther can deal with his healing factor. But before I do go over the ways he can deal with his healing factor, I just want to say that if ultimate wolverine does lose his head, or if he does lose his limbs he is incapacitated. Any ways as impressive as those scans are I think Black panther has the mean of dealing with his healing factor.

Here is a scan from ultrons bio and in it they confirm that ultrons adamantium body has proven to be vulnerable to savage land vibranium, other wise known as anti-metal vibranium.

Black panthers claws are made of Savage land/Anti-metal vibranium. Basically black panthers claws can break adamantium down on a molecular level allowing black panther to bypass the adamantium. Below is a visual of what can happen. I am not using it as proof its just shows what kind of damage T'challa can do when he bypasses the adamantium.

So basically black panthers anti-metal claws will allow him to strike really deep like in the scan above. Wolverine loses the advantage of adamantium protecting him. If he can survive without a heart then I guess Black panther can go for the brain as well.

OR......

Black panther can use his energy daggers. The energy daggers have different settings and one of those settings is a setting which allows them to turn intangible letting them cut Ultrons circuitry despite his adamantium body. Just replace the words circuitry with wolverines brain and basically the same thing can happen to ultimate wolverine.

OR....

Has ultimate wolverine ever resisted pressure point based attacks? Because black panther is very knowledgeable in pressure points.

Not only does black panther know pressure points but he can also increase the effectiveness of his pressure points with his energy daggers.

OR...

How strong is ultimate wolverine? If none of the above methods work (I think they will) Black panther could always try and incapacitate ultimate wolverine with a sub mission hold.

Basically if Ultimate wolverine is going to win this he is going to need to use his speed and skill. He cannot rely on his healing factor because its not enough.

1-2) Ultimate Wolvie takes on a Anti Mutant terrorist with a detonator. Not only does Wolverine close the distance but clearly shows superior speed to how mans reaction time.

Impressive but I think I can top it.

3) Next is a Mob Boss threatening to kill Wolverine before having his gun cut before he can pull the trigger.

You can't really compare the average joe to black panther. Its not a bad speed feat but black panther is an enhanced human being. 616 wolverine has done the same thing and black panther is at least just as fast.

4) Finally Ultimate QS qho is 10+ Mach speed is not only reacted to by Wolverine but could not react fast enough to dodge his attack.

The problem with this feat is we don't know fast ultimate quicksilver was moving. Deathstroke has been able to tag the flash before and we know he shouldn't be able to. And I would assume that ultimate wolverine tagged quicksilver because he slowed down his thoughts to talk to wolverine.

Here I will give you a example using superman and flash.

I will dig up the full set of scans later if you want to give a more clear explanation but basically superman and flash are talking the waitress falls, she spills some food, and superman and flash speed up there thoughts to the point where everyone is standing still. They then proceed to have an entire conversation while everything is standing completely still. Normally when superman and flash talk people like batman can hear them just fine. However when they do this they also don't react as fast. I will go in more detail in my next post and explain it later as I don't have as much time to go into as much detail as I would like. But the point is when Ultimate quicksilver got tagged it was likely because he was slowing his senses down so wolverine can understand him.

Thats why when we use feats of tagging speedsters we need on panel statements to quantify how fast they are going. Because some times they have to slow themselves down for the plot.

Here is a Speed showing. Wolverine kills a small army of Zombies in a flash. Even the ones ontop of Cyclopes dragging him down.

This feat is interesting. After wolverine kills those zombies we see that wolverine is on the ground and he asks cyclops to give him a minute. Judging by what happened it seems wolverine can get tired by moving at those speeds (unless there is something else I need to know?). Maybe if Black panther can avoid getting cut with those claws for a bit ultimate wolverines healing factor might get taxed a bit making it easier for black panther to drop him. Anyways this is a great speed feat no doubt but I don't think it makes him faster then black panther.

In the above scans black panther is basically on top of a guy and appears to have moved at the speed of a blur...Thing is black panther isn't enhanced when he does this. Meaning he is only a lot faster. Also keep in mind hand ninjas have dodged and IIRC even deflected gun fire. Black panther does a similar feat.

Wolverine reacts and moves faster than the man with his finger on a trigger. It also shows his Speed and Strength by throwing a grown man with one hand and reacting to the other.

Black panther has moved faster then human eyes can follow. Which I believe tops this feat (so would would some of the other speed feats I previously posted).

As for strength:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/03/020328073615.htm

According to the above science daily a 12ft alligator has a bite force of 2125 pounds which is the equivalent of lifting a small truck. The gator Black panther held apart is even bigger then the science daily one so he basically is a 1-2 tonner (and he has other feats like that like lifting his throne chair, wrestling the 5 ton rhino, bull dogging the one and a half ton rhino, etc)

Basically I believe Black Panthers energy daggers and Anti-metal claws will allow him to drop ultimate wolverine and his own degree of speed and skill will allow him to get the job done (especially if ultimate wolverine is the type of character to tank attacks). And if he can't drop ultimate wolverine (I believe he can) he can possibly pin him down with a choke or submission hold to incapacitate ultimate wolverine, unless ultimate wolverine is stronger then T'challa.

@CadenceV2:

I will call Mephisto vs BP as pure PIS. I have a million reasons why too as Mephisto powers alone would decimate BP. Dr. Doom and Professor Hulk could t scientifically find a way yet a second tier Genius did? BS.

I only uploaded that scan as a visual. I disagree its pis since black panther had prep but we can discuss that later. He depowered Mephisto first and the showing doesn't end there. But it was only a visual, so I will post the full scans later if you would like.

Also the scan Bio prove Anti Metal Claws are damaging but to what extent? How easy can they slice thru? See I can use a Hot Knife to slice thru butter but require much more effort to cut thru thick Fabrics. It just seems vague. Is it Puncture damage and not Slice damage? Just to vague to be use without a scan to see its level of effectiveness. on Adamantium.

Here Hank Pym uses anti-metal vibranium to destroy ultrons adamantium body. He bashes Ultron repeatedly in the face. It completely destroys Ultrons body. Safe to say anti-metal claws wont have a hard time getting through the adamantium skeleton.

Also you forgot to address what i said about the energy daggers as well. I am just making sure you didn't miss that mistake.

Black panther can use his energy daggers. The energy daggers have different settings and one of those settings is a setting which allows them to turn intangible letting them cut Ultrons circuitry despite his adamantium body. Just replace the words circuitry with wolverines brain and basically the same thing can happen to ultimate wolverine.

The above part is part you forgot to comment on. Just making sure if your in agreement this strategy will work or not as well.

The Healing Factor heals Pressure Point Damage. The concept of Pressure Points is too stop bleeding and cause pain. In comics its use to cause "Damage" o a nerve. Thus HF compensates easy.

Characters have difference resistance to different damage. Luke cage was affected by pressure points from black panther, kid gladiator was taken down by wolverine with pressure points, spider-man has been stunned by iron fist and numbed below the waist by cap due to pressure points, midnighter bloodied apollo with a pressure point to the ears IIRC, ETC.

So Pressure Points mean nothing to Ultimate Wolverine who never suffer from PIS like 616 has.

I am assuming you are talking about Garth Ennis right? There are more instances of 616 wolverine resisting pressure points. Lord shingin had to poison wolverine with enough poison to kill 20 men for them to work (even then he had to hit him multiple times with pressure points meant to kill and this was during the decade where his healing factor wasn't as good as it is now), he also resisted Echo's pressure points in daredevil volume 2 issues 51-55, and elektra had to dig her sais into wolverine to get them to work on him during enemy f the state.

This has nothing to do with our debate I just figured I would point that out in 616 wolverines defense.

I simply doubt BP Nerve strikes are any more effective than this semi Truck.

Luke Cage can take a Semi no problem and pressure points worked on him. That was when black panther was unenhanced. And again he can amplify the affects with his energy daggers so they will be increased. I would think it would at least slow him down.

H As Rogue who took a small portion of wolverines Healing shows his HF can regrow Limbs in less than a hour.

Impressive.

Ultimate wolverine is Peak Human in strength (Lugging around that metal) and has Kicked/Thrown 200+ pound humans like nothing across distances (as my above scans showed). Submission holds may work on Wolverine but again I doudbt it as Submission moves are design to cause pain and break bones which is negated by the Healing Factor.

Yea my bad what I meant to actually say was put ultimate wolverine in a full nelson. All though some sub mission holds cause pain at the joints like the hammer lock so those can work too. But I meant full nelson so my mistake.

Also what Submission move will keep BP from being Stab by the Adamantium claws?

He can try to Submission hold, but those claws have reach and have cut through Colossus Organic steel that tanks just about anything used on him.

I think the hammer lock would prevent it but as I said above I messed up. I meant to say Full nelson (again really sorry for the confusion).

All though the claws have reach black panthers energy daggers have range.

So Black panther can cut ultimate wolverines eyes first with his energy daggers which will leave him open for a full nelson. Or Black panther can also stun him by hitting him in the balls <.<

Black panthers done it before....Point being there are a few ways black panther can stun wolverine or distract him long enough for black panther to pin wolverine down if needed.

The point of Speed is Wolverine is faster than Human thought process and has reacted and block Ultimate QS who was moving at his Mach speed to catch Cyclopes.

Proof and Fact is QS has INSANE reaction time. He talks to Cyclopes (slow speed) at first till a Marine shoots his gun. QS Reacts by catching the Bullet and KOing the Marine!

My main issue with character VS character feats is sometimes characters don't always use there speed to the best of there abilities. That could be the case in the ultimate quicksilver scans.

Also something else I noticed is ultimate quicksilver looks a bit beat up? Why is that?

So no need to compare DC Flash abilities to Marvels Ultimate QS in reaction time. Fact is QS maintains a Mach 2+ Reaction time.

Its not just DC. In WW hulk we see sentry blitz hulk twice and the 3rd time he gets tagged. But how fast was sentry moving at the time? Its the same problem here.

Yes. Wolverine was already huffing and battleing the savage land for a day straight at that point and did seem to push his speed to the max there.I think its safe to say moving at Mach Speed in attacks on a small army (as in running from point A to B and back for 50 feet radius) is far harder than reacting with quick attacks at those speeds.

All right. All though this does show that Ultimate wolverines healing factor can get over loaded with sufficeint enough damage. I think black panther tearing apart him skeleton with anti metal claws, phasing his energy daggers through his admantium to cut his organs, and ETC will be causing him damage. And if he can't maintain those speeds he might have issues tagging T'challa...Either he moves at those speeds and I think black panther can dodge him long enough to exhaust himself or he doesn't move at those speeds and Black panther will have a definite speed advantage IMO.

I think Speed is not the important factor here. As you proven BP is fast and I prove Wolverine is Fast.

Yea but we need to know which one is faster.

Another good speed feat is Wolverine Reaction and Tanking the blast of this Side Winder Missile.

So Wolverine is reacting to a Mach 2 Missile that is slamming him in concrete and then tanks the Blast of it

I don't think Black panther would have gotten hit by the missile in the first place. The durability feat is impressive but I think I have proven T'challa can damage ultimate wolverine.

Then added in again this feat.

As seen the Writer himself clearly mentions Wolverine Hacking thru the Acolytes and Speed Blitzing Corteze with the Detonator.

I think I all ready matched that feat with Black panther out running sabretooth and moving fast enough to knock 2 guys down by passing through them. I got some more impressive speed feats as well I can post.

My point is Wolverine is more than fast enough to keep up.

I think black panther is faster and more agile. I think his skill will also help out, and how does ultimate wolverine fight? If he relies on his healing factor that could also be a problem.

Tchalla is Strong. However non of that strength will play a role anymore than Ultimate Sabertooth who whos a easy 2-5 toner. Ultimate Sabes not only is the super delta force train Weapon X operative but he also was Slightly Physicaly superior to Wolverine but in Healing Factor. However Wolverines Bio puts him at a toner as well.

Sabertooth Strength and Skill at play vs Subway Train door, vs Wolverine's Son (Sabes is in bad condition on this one and missing his adamantium :/), as well effortlessly taking out Beast and Storm.

Wolverine first appearance and battle with Sabertooth.

Now Sabertooth with Adamantium himself still overpowers Wolverine yet Wolvie Healing Factor was better as he won the fight by Healing First and ending Sabertooth after the Cliff Fall.

Now after awhile Wolverine skill just gets better. Danger Room, Missions, and non stop training on his terms allows Wolverine to simply one shot Sabertooth.

Sabertooth afterwords had to fight smarter and more cautious. Even then he simply tried to avoid Wolverine in a straight up fight.

At this point Wolverine skill heavily outweighs Sabertooth.

Point is BP strength is not overwhelming and Wolverine strength is definitely on the Ton range as well according to BIo and Feats.

Ultimate sabretooth may have been stronger but he never tried to put ultimate wolverine in a full nelson. Ultimate Sabretooth seems to rely on his physicals more so then skill based off this scan

Wolveirne states sabretooth isn't that great a fighter. Black panther is a very skilled fighter.

Another issue is that black panther has also fought people physically supioer then himself. He fought killmonger and he only lost because he got distracted.

I can upload some skill feats for killmonger as well but before he recieved his upgrade which allowed him to achieve the above feats he stalemated deadpool...He was only peak human when he stalemated wade. Now keep in mind that another advantage he has on black panther is he is familiar with T'challas moves.

So ultimate wolverine isn't the only one who has the skills to out fight people stronger then him. Black panthers strength advantage may not be a vast strength advantage like it was in ultimate sabretooths case but his skills are a lot better then ultimate sabretooth. And his strength advantage is good enough to hold ultimate wolverine down. I think black panther is a bit above a ton and Black Panther will use his strength advantage better then ultimate sabretooth.

If you need more skill showings just ask.

1) Morals on. BP doesnt go around killing at all. Ultimate Wolvie kills the low common criminal to nearly killing Colossus, Cyclopes, and other Team mates. His own Teammates! He is a Psycho when he finds a target.

Too bad for these Mutants in the Brother Hood found out too late.

Black panther has no issues with killing. He does whatever it takes to win. He is more of a anti-hero with shades of grey to be honest.

He also killed a guy in new avengers #1 by punching a whole through him, he also killed Gor by making gor stab himself.

He also did this to a super skrull:

He is also familiar with wolverine so he knows ultimate wolverine will heal. He also isn't fond of 616 wolverine so he wot lose any sleep in doing lethal damage to ultimate wolverine.

2) Durability and Attacks. Wolverine commonly loves to use the Spear Embedded tactic. That means he will tank BP Anti Metal Claws/Energy Daggers and he will counter with a Killing Blow.

Case in point.

According to your scans he says "give me a few hours" so he can't afford to take anti-metal claws...I imagine it will take longer for him to heal his admantium if he can at all. And energy daggers can be fired from a range so this wont be very effective.

3) Wolverine Learning Curb.

Wolverine is the greatest Assassine in the Marvel Ultimate Verse. He has worked as special Forces since WW2. He has further training and Psy Training put into his head by weapon X. He has with the X-Men been instructing and training in the Danger Room since. He is always enhancing his skills.

As his Bio rates his Sill as very high. He also learns quick.

You have some good ultimate wolverine displays of skills but just to comment on the bio: I don't trust bios as they tend to contradict what writers write in comics. Even Breevort (head editor) says there flawed.

http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort/q/376157190991401158

http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort/q/377453075603935802

And I get ultimate wolverine is all those things but at the end of the day "worlds greatest assassin" is just a title. Titles get tossed around all the time.

Gambit had a unique way of beating Wolvie good.

Yet Wolverine Compensates for this in there next Match easy.

He will compensate easy to the Anti Metal Claws (if there effective at all) or Energy Daggers.

Wolverines biggest asset is still the insane Durability of Wolverine for BP to overcome.

Ultimate wolverine had to lose his first match to compensate for Gambits powers. And the method he used wouldn't apply to Black panther. All he did was beat Ultimate Gambit without popping the claws. How can he compensate for anti-metal claws or energy daggers? And Black panther himself is a quick learner. You can see that above in his fight with the super skrull. Black panther managed to find out

• The various powers and skills the skrull had
• And figured out when he can hurt the skrull via body reading

The difference is black panther never had to lose a first fight to figure out when the skrull was vulnerable. He just won. So Ultimate wolverine doesn't learn any faster then black panther does.

@CadenceV2:

Well if there is more to it then I will sleep better at night.

Here are the full scans

This doesn't have anything to do with the debate but encase you are interested.

It clearly looks like something that affected all of the Avengers Tech and gear rather than simple Anti metal Claws cutting away. Whats that wave about that Tony mentions?

Thats because when Anti-metal creates vibrations that go through the air and when the vibrations come in contact with other metal it destabilizes all the other metal. Including the metal the avengers had on. I guess Pym Was hitting with a lot of force and created to many vibrations.

Yet all those Characters have no major known HEALING FACTOR like Wolvie does. As for the Energy Daggers they could Brain Damage him. He will may be down longer than 10 seconds. However a Head Stab will as easily kill BP.

Fair enough.

I think the arm Bar is more effective. It causes pain and the fear of a broken bone incaps the victim from breaking out of it. However Wolverine has no fear of Broken Bones and can tank pain like no other.

As long as he can't move. A win is a win.

Now were just fighting dirty.

LOL yep. Black panther is a pretty dirty fighter.

Oh LOL!

Do you think the optic blast could have given him some serious wounds, possibly making him easier to tag? I don't know much about ultimate cyclops but didn't he one shot ultimate wolverine (not using it as a low showing for ultimate wolverine just pointing out his blasts are powerful).

However Wolverine speed feat of killing 30+ Zombies in a flash shows accurate speed reaction and combat speed as do the other scans. He can keep up with BP for sure.

I don't think he will get blitzed or anything I just see black panther evading and landing his own hits for a majority.

I agree to a degree

I'm fine with that but I still need to address your scans for the sake of argument.

This Feat and battle with the reality warping Magician shows how fast and exertion rarely affects Wolverine HF.

Fire that melts steel on Logan here and he heals right up with his adrenalin pumpin. Then he Neck Slashes Magigian for the kill.

Another good example of sustaining attacks is Logan vs Moria on Banshee. As seen its a powerful blast period. Logan Tanks a stream of it easy and then moves quick enough to get behind her (with all that momentum against him too) and then tanks the building explosion easy.

I am not doubting the damage it can take I am doubting its ability to keep him going for extended periods of times. During enemy of the state wolverine was one shotted by cap because he was exhausted after running a gauntlet (I think he killed 5000 guys or something like that). Maybe when ultimate wolverine goes full out and sprints he fatigues himself? I mean maybe he wasn't sprinting in this situation. He only needed to be fast enough to get up to Jean before she ran out of air. So if he fatigues himself then it leaves him vulnerable and may potentially decrease the efficiency of his healing factor?

Your second example do we see the landing? Any confirmation ultimate wolverine was conscious still?

Yea, Wolverine on the Short Sprint and BP on the Long Run ;)

I disagree!

I think wolverine was distracted by Spider Man chatting with him and I think Cap does not throw his shield that hard all the time ever.

Fair enough again. You can replace this speed feat with this one:

And Cyclops has phenomenal reaction speed.

Wolverine had gain skill quick when he lost his Healing Factor as Cable.

Ultimate cable said it himself. He is more skilled then ultimate wolverine can hope to be, due to his loss of healing factor. It would be backed up by his showings. Besides the fact that ultimate wolverine is dead currently sort of proves he is not going to become ultimate cable. So ultimate cable must a alternate reality him or something. Either way he states he is more skilled then ultimate wolverine and considering his showing I am willing to believe it.

This is not Skill he gain in time. He lost his arm to Apoc and had lost his HF as well. He been battling straight up without it against Apoc mutant forces so his skill was always there.

He says above that he got skill by fighting without his healing factor....

Xavier pits wolverine against his Newly form X-Team. This is a Danger Room Sim, however the Sim design with TP input by Xavier himself on the strength levels and skills of the Team. Wolverine decimates it. Beast and Colossus also already have good skill. Cyclopes and Jean have Excellent Skill. The only non skilled one is Storm.

None of them are martial artists. And they are also inexperienced.

There are also the pressure point stuff I all ready posted in my first post. I got some more stuff but I think that will do for now.

I am comfortable with BP skill. He has more solo comics than Ultimate Wolverine however as proven Ultimate Wolverine Skill is extremely high as well. One of the highest in Ultimate Marvel.

Black panther having more comics doesn't mean anything. Take gorgon for example. He was a badass when he only had enemy of the state showings (he still is) but Bendis gave us low showings for him. Having more showings hurt gorgon, it did not help him. Black panther is consistently awesome (he has some low showings but not much).

Look what Weapon X did to a mere Kid in 2 months!

Thats skill in a few months lol. Wolverine was Weapon X and Shields golden weapon.

Very impressive. I don't think its as impressive as Black panther studying every fighting style on the planet or possibly studying in K'un-Lun but still impressive.

Thing is all those fights are people who instigate it. Wolverine simply has lower morals and doesnt aim to wound as BP clearly shows.

This is Wolverines Team mate and a guy that saved Wolverine earlier. Yet Wolvie wants him dead to get laid by Jean. BP Morals are bright grey to wolverines Shadowy black.

Heck later he drops Cyke down a ravine!

Ultimate wolverine has a healing factor and as I said he isn't fond of 616 wolverine so I don't think Black panther will care about using lethal force. I think black panther knows it will only drop ultimate wolverine for a bit. I mean in new avengers him and the rest of the new avengers (except captain america) are all thinking of blowing up a planet in order to save the omniverse. He is willing to destroy entire worlds to win he is willing to use lethal force on a guy who can't permanently die.

Yet I showed more feats of his Healing Factor working faster than that. He said give me a few hours like I do at work carrying a heavy pre Cast beam. He was in pain and he healed right up afterward.

Fair enough.

True yet when you can easily sneak up on Black Widow (Shields top Spy) and Magneto (of all people)and become Nick Fury and Magnetos ultimate Hitman... it carries alot of weight as fact.

The environment doesn't really offer much for stealth. Besides black panther can hear a heart beat half a mile away so I doubt he can be sneaked up on by ultimate wolverine. His senses have been compared to daredevils.

Ultimate Gambit ran from wolverine before he got back up with Rogue. Compesate by not conecting attacks or tank the hits and concentrate on killing BP with a solid stab while his HF tanks any hit.

Super Skrulls were beaten left and right during Secrete Invasion. Also BP looked to play with morals there. Wolverine would have One Shotted that Skrull.

Wolverine will learn fast enough for the Anti Metal Claws (which im still not fully convince will work well) and simply one shot BP who will die easy from blood loss and neck slashes.

6 Examples of straight killing shots! This is all Wolvie needs to win. Just one solid hit and its over. He has time on his side thanks to his Adamantium skeleton and Healing Factor.

1. Black panther isn't going to let ultimate wolverine stab him. He will be more focused on the claws. He might even decide to destroy the claws with his anti-metal claws. Or he can disarm ultimate wolverine by cutting his limbs off at the joints incapacitating him.
2. The point of the super skrull feat shows Black panthers loose morals. He left him for dead after brutalizing him. He has no issues with letting people die or killing them. The super skrull feat also shows hi tactical ability. He out thought the skrull he did not out fight it.
3. He has to hit black panther first who not only has speed and skill which I believe are slightly better but he also has range attacks which he can use to swipe ultimate wolverines eyes from a distance.
4. Black panther has a few ways to win. And if ultimate wolverine does decide to tank attacks to get in close as I said that could be a problem. He needs to use skill to win, he can't just run blindly. Black panther can do serious damage to ultimate wolverine.

@CadenceV2:

I dont think so. QS has a minor Healing Factor (due to his Speed nature) and has tank hits that should have slowed him down before but didnt.

Yet he was still capable of moving at this speed a minuet later.

QS pretty good on that. Also he claim he could rip there skins from the bodies and hang them from a post. Im not about to disclaim that saying as he moves fast enough to obliterate a Mach 10 Speeder on the Molecule Level with speed.

Fair enough. I am still a little hesitant to say he was moving at maximum speeds. Characters some times don't use there abilities to the best of there level.

This is up to many factors. wolverine Claws have a easy chance of slicing BP up while he hopes to cause enough damage to Wolverine to slow him down. In turn I fully belive BP will be harm and slowed down as well where Wolverine will recover and be fully capable of Speed Blitzing again.

I think Black panther will likely take certain measures like destroying wolverines claws with his own anti-metal claws, blinding him from a range with energy daggers, or just being cautious with those claws. He knows 616 wolverine is one of the deadliest fighters in his universe so he isn't going to mess around with ultimate wolverine either.

His Healing Factor has been stress out when he was calm. It definaitly seems to work better in intense fights. Example he tanks Napalm and Gunshots when in a clamer state and his HF does not heal till for ahwile. Yet if he is already beserking out and doing his best to get a kill it heals faster in showings. Intentionaly or not it looks Adrenalin causes the HF to work better.

ok but black panther does know sleep inducing pressure points. All though pressure points might not stop ultimate wolverine I believe he would still slightly feel the affects. 616 Wolverine despite not getting dropped by pressure points still get annoyed so he does feel something. If we are assuming that ultimate wolverines healing factor works the same way then I think the sleep inducing pressure points might have a calming affect so his adrenaline might not be in play (possibly).

Speed will fatigue him if he felt force to run around. In this 1 on 1 no time limit battle there would be no reason for Wolverine to lay low and heal up till BP gets in range again. Wolverine done this tactic before against Weapon X. He killed a few, healed up, and repeat process.

Black panther wont give him the chance to heal.

I dont see why not when he was when he Ripped off the Banshee Drug, held onto it, and rushed back to the X-Mansion after being blasted across 2 states.

Or Tanking Ultimate Hulks Hits to the Face and remaining Conscious.

All right, all though I will say the method black panther is using is a bit different then this type of blast. He will be attacking the very organs themselves whether it be with anti-metal claws tearing adamantium apart or with energy daggers turning intangible and cutting the organs directly.

All very god. Honestly I don't believe Speed is a huge factor again. Wolverine pushing all out can tire but recover where BP due to no Healing Factor will constantly slow down due to Blood Loss and wounds adding up.

I disagree. If black panther is faster (and I do think he is) then he can avoid getting wounds.

Like Cable said later when he lost his Healing Factor he couldn't afford not to rely solely on his skill to continue fighting Apakalipse.

Honestly as I showed Wolverine was the greatest assassin in the world and had combat moves of every American Special Force and Shield combat moves implanted in his head by Weapon X. So those skills are there. As I said Cable relied on skill and knows his HF self relies more on his Healing Factor.

Yea but he improved on those skills when he lost his healing factor, and possibly studied some other forms of combat. We don't even know if ultimate cable is the same guy. I mean isn't ultimate Logan dead? In the ultimate universe when you die, your suppose to stay dead...The fact he is dead tells us he doesn't become ultimate cable. Ultimate wolverine is skilled but I don't believe ultimate cables feats are interchangeable.

As you said with the Wolverine Scan wolvie was eavenly match till Thing showed up.

I never said they were evenly matched. Black panther thought it was a game and wolverine was trying to kill him and Black panther was still dodging his blows. Wolverine pinned him down but black panther didn't know it was a fight. I don't necessarily believe a fight between the 2 would go down that way but at the same time I don't think there fight in contest of champions one should be dismissed either.

Why is Karnak so awesome again? He can spot any weakness but he rarely impress me... ever lol.

Eh, I will give you the fact Kanark does not have many impressive feats however he is suppose to be impressive. He is supposedly capable of seeing the weakness in anything including fighting styles. IIRC Mantis (who beat the east coast avenges with skill) said it was possible Kanark could beat her. She did have the upper hand admittedly.

But I guess if you want to replace it with another feat black panther vs taskmaster is a pretty good one.

Here Wolverine fights Yuri. She has a Healing Factor better than Wolverines and Claws sharp enough to cut a Vehicle (Engine Block and All) in half. Only thru her knowledge of Wolverines one Weak spot (and explains Adamantium doesn't coat his entire Skeleton 100%) and hits it. Whats good about this even tho she has 2 forms of weapons as well wide defense she get her throat cut in One Panel. So even the best and widest covering Defense is not enough to stop the Throat Cut (Signature move) of Wolverine.

This is a pretty good feat but I think black panther is faster and more skilled then she is. And it also says that if you break his bones just right you can shut off his nervous system. So if Black panther can cut the spine (which even if he has adamantium in will still be cut due to anti-metal claws) ultimate wolverines brain will shut down.

This is another good showing of Skill and Tactics vs Multiple Sentinels. He not only finds smart ways of beating them but he shreds alot of them on his own. These are Upgraded Sentinel to the last ones that were tanking and one shorting Mutants from x-men and Brother Hood with ease.

All though this is impressive it is against a different type of opponent then what ultimate wolverine is facing here.

Here is a awesome one. Wolverine killing off multiple Russian Super Soldiers (Made with Ultimate Vision parts) who were locked away for over 50 years killing and fighting for survival. Wolverine easy knows he is the by far superior product.

Do these guys have feats though? What makes them more impressive then doom bots?

Wolverine fights and holds his own against a Blood Lusted 712 Hyperion (the one who fought Gladiator). Now Hyperion is at half power due to Scarlet Witch spell (more believable yet Hyperion Strength, Flash Vision, and Speed are still superior and he cant put Wolverine down! also note Wolverine constant tagging and dodging Hyperions Speed. Wolverine in this knew he couldn't win but kept looking for a way cause his Healing Factor allowed him too.

The type of damage that Hyperion is using is different then the type black panther is using. Black panther anti-metal claws can bypass the adamantium which is what Hyperion had issues with.

Wolverine skill is notable. It was placed in his head and had the Training and Mission Experiance of Americas greatest wars since WW2.

Impressive.

Wolverine Claws and Skill took out Iron Man!

I don't doubt the claws can damage black panther if they connect, I just don't think they would.

Also Beast, Cyke, Jean, and Colossus was FAR from lacking in skill or experiance.

Thats a good showing of Skill before Beast ever met the X-Men. Surviving a world that hates you since you were Born with the powers you have allows for some gain skill.

Also Jean was in full control at the time as Xavier still had her powers in control. She was nowhere near as powerful but TP was still amazing. Her TK is also top Notch.

TK can obliterate a Sentinal with ease. This is Shortly (like a week) after the Danger Room Sim. In fact both Wolvie and Jean were train by Xavier at much younger ages.

Cyclopes Skill was such that he was already a natural fighter, survivor, and Train his butt off in the Dnager Room way before Logan showed up.

As seen he can fight Blind since he was a child. A Natural Leader as a kid. Effortlessly defeated Sentinal Forces from the Get go.

And as Weapon X Commented on he was by far the best holding off the Weapon X Special Forces.

Colossus is not some common thug. He kept his Mutant power a secrete mostly and was still the Russian Mobs best man.

So this feat of Effortlessly beating all 5 of them with ease and efficiency is a neat starting feat. Take into Account Wolverine trains alot more (twice a day with Colossus) in the Danger Room since then.

I am not doubting the impressiveness of the feat but the kids didn't face an opponent of ultimate wolverines skill. There main experiences were against sentinels and average people. Sentinels are powerful but not very tactically aware. Black panther is one of the most intelligent people in marvel. He out smarted iron man and dr.doom. I don't doubt they are impressive but they were inexperienced when ultimate wolverine fought them.

True but its also true people relate to what they are familiar with and some people do believe more showings mean better.

I don't. And black panther doesn't have that many appearances considering how long he has been around.

The point is Weapon X took the X-men like Storm with no skill and made her comparable to what she is currently with their training and skill implantation.

wolverine been there best and most train for over 20 years.

OK but I don't think it makes ultimate wolverine more trained then T'challa.

Fair enough but unlike BP who has study non lethal moves Wolverine is all Lethal moves in his training and Knowledge.

Black panther doesn't mind killing. He knows how to bust someones knee cap with a casual kick. And again he is willing to kill.

Oh there is no Stealth in this match lol. I meant his skill and such as the best Assassin. I was getting across Wolverine isnt some oafish Brute unless Wolvie feels that is the best way to deal with the problem.

All right.

I simply dont belive BP will cut that easy through Adamantium. Magneto is the only person to destroy Adamantium with ease. Pure Adamantium. In the Ultimate Verse there is no Secondary Adamantium yet either. Even in the Ultron Scan it look like Ultron took many hits from the Anit Metal from Hanks super Punches without being slice and dice like Butter. So the Small Claws I think will need alot of effort to cut thru.

Anti-metal pretty much works the same way as magneto destroying adamantium. It destabilizes the metal on a molecular level. Reason Pym took a lot of hits was because he used a little cylinder to destroy ultrons entire body. Black panther just needs to destroy enough to get through to ultimate logans organs, cut the spine, etc.

Good points however Wolvie is by far more skilled and harder to put down than that skrull due to Adamantium and Healing Factor.

True. But I do believe Black panther has his ways of taking ultimate wolverine down.

I still think Wolvie has far better Speed in short burst and he can heal those eyes in less than a minuet. Faster if his Adrenalin is pumping. Also Panther who Armour protects from casual blows would be slice and dice by Wolvies Claws. BP also knows Wolverine. This may be a factor. He knows 616 has more morals and may hesitate on a killing blow. As I showed Ultimate Wolvie goes for the kill every time.

Wolverine never hesitated in killing black panther the first time they fought so Black panther will be cautious, I mean he dodges bullets when he wears his bullet proof vibranium suit so he will avoid slashes without his suit. Its his nature. And I never did give black panther his vibranium suit because it has never done well against slashing along the grain and I don't see it making a difference. If he had it I do believe he could stop straight stabs from ultimate wolverine but that doesn't matter. And I still think black panther is faster. Ultimate wolveirne is fast but:

Black panther actually has better speed feats then these as well.

Wolvie who fights Sabertooth shows that skill. thats the point of the Sabertooth battles. Wolvie cant tank Sabes superior strength and beat his Healing Factor. So he uses Skill and dirty fighting himself to win. BP is no different. Problem with BP is should he claw the insides of Logan the Logan will straight Head Shot (where he cant miss) BP. I don't think BP has enough here to cause enough Damage to put Wolvie down at Distance and in CQC Wolvie chances of winning increase due to the lower durability and lack of HF of BP.

Well sure but I think is more skilled and faster. Black panther has studied every fighting style on the planet, has shown some advanced technical knowledge. I believe black panther has a few methods of dealing with the claws to make sure he doesn't get hit like swiping at ultimate wolverines from range with his energy daggers and taking his eyes out, and then going in close and cutting ultimate wolverine up a bit with anti-metal claws, and he might get lucky and break the bones in a certain way just like Yuri did which might take out ultimate Logan. Or he could grapple with ultimate wolverine and apply his strength advantage towards pinning ultimate Logan down. Or he could test a theory and see if ultimate wolverines bones are connected at the joints (he can test this theory by breaking the joints and see if they break) and then he could cut the joints off and incapacitate ultimate wolverine. I think T'challa has a few ways to win here.

I don't have much left so after your reply we can vote.

If you want then sure. Its your call. Good debate, and I did learn a lot about ultimate wolverine. He is more impressive then I thought.

@CadenceV2: All right good debate.

@CadenceV2:LOL yes why?

@CadenceV2 said:

@jashro44: I remember that one from before. You bounce back. People dont bounce back with Avatars. they move forward...

I haven't seen anything really new thats avatar worthy and I was getting tired of my old one.

@MonsterStomp said:

Gah! Going with Black Panther on this.

same, excellent debating.

I'll vote for Cadence although you both performed admirably!

@CadenceV2: I don't do pity votes! I'm a cold SOB!