CaV: tparks (TMNT) vs FitnessTribesman13 (Veteran Predator)

VS

The title says it all. It's a CaV between tparks and I. Note this is the first time I made a CaV and debating a CaV battle. And to be clear, the Predator is nothing like the ones in the movies.

Equipment:

• TMNT has standard gear only
• The Veteran Predator has standard gear
• Veteran Predator does have his cloaking, but it lasts only for 10 seconds and regenerates in 10 seconds. After he somehow manages to take out one of the turtles, the Veteran can no longer use his cloak. The turtles are given prior knowledge as well that the Veteran has a cloaking device, so they will have to rely on their other senses at that point until he takes out a turtle if he can with that little of cloaking.

Prep/knowledge:

• TMNT - No prep, but the TMNTs knows that they are up against a highly advanced and highly experienced and trained galactic alien hunter that is nothing like that of what the turtles have fought.
• Veteran Predator - No prep, but knows that he is going up against four mutated meta-human, well trained ninja turtles that are different to what the Veteran has faced in terms of skill and biology.

Rules:

• tparks decided to use mostly the IDW comic TMNTs.
• The Veteran Predator has access to his whole franchise including the EU reboot and the AvP series (EU, video games, movies, etc.)
• Morals on

Location:

Battle takes place around a city block with nobody walking around but a few cars here and there. It's noon. They start 150 feet apart:

When you're ready: @tparks

NICE. Dis gunna b awesome

Here you go:

Tag for votes. Love both TMNT and Predator.

@sirfizzwhizz: I think we're still discussing who will be voting, but until tparks responds and I need to get offline. Enjoy the argument!

I love Predator but i'm gonna have to go with TMNT.

WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGAN DEBATING...

@fitnesstribesman13: Let me reword this rule: "EU reboot and the AvP series" EU Reboot and Old EU material.

@fitnesstribesman13:

Ok. I'll get this started with a very brief intro. I usually do a breakdown of each turtle, but I'll keep things generic and short at this point, and go into more detail later.

But first, here's a little history lesson.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Secret History

Why am I talking about history? I'm talking about the turtle's history because it defines why these turtles are so skilled in martial arts and the skills of a ninja, even though they have only been around in modern times for a few years at this point (Maybe 4-5, if I had to guess). The IDW series has several major themes, chief among them are family....and pizza, but the theme I'm going to be talking about at this point is reincarnation and "Sins of the Father".

Before I talk about the turtle's themselves though, you need to know about another character before I can really drive home these themes. This character is Takeshi Tatsuo.

Takeshi Tatsuo, on a mission to slay thieves high up in the mountains, is met by legions of samurai in a trap. Takeshi was considered so dangerous, that an entire armies of all the clans of ancient Japan were sent to destroy a single man...they failed.

Gallery

Tatsuo, in one battle, slays every last warrior on his own. With no one left to contest Tatsuo, he goes on to rule Japan through the might of the Foot Clan that he now leads.

Tatsuo, being a powerful man in his own right, doesn't accept his own mortality, and seeks out a witch named Kitsune, who unlocks the secret to his eternal life.

Kitsune is a very powerful witch, one of three entities that control the course of history in the IDW universe, yet even she sees the power that this man can control, and submits to be his servant.

Kitsune keeps Tatsuo alive for an unknown amount of generations, but what appears to be possibly centuries. A small rebellion however, attacks Tatsuo while he is at his weakest before Kitsune can bring back his youth, and manages to kill a weakened Tatsuo.

Fast-forward several generations. The foot clan has grown to become a ruling power in Japan, and is set to take on the world. Two young warriors have proven to be the best of the best, and are up and coming in the Foot Clan. These two warriors are Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki. Because of their superiority to all others as warriors, yet still equals to each other, a rivalry between the two was inevitable.

Even with the rivalry between the two, they still manage to work together on the most important missions given to the foot clan, that is until Oroku Saki learns his true fate.

Oroku Saki discovers that he is, in fact, the direct re-incarnation of Takeshi Tatsuo. In the IDW universe, all skills gained in a former life, are ingrained in the new incarnation, which explains why Saki has been so dominant of a warrior his entire life. He already has centuries of training under his belt, before even picking up a sword. After discovering this identity, Saki decides he will serve no longer, and he sets out to take control of the Foot Clan, as the rightful ruler he once was, and no one would stand in his way...

The only warrior who could possibly stop him, was Yoshi. Saki was no fool, he would not risk letting the only person on the face of the planet who could challenge him live. He sets off to murder Yoshi at his home, but finds Yoshi's wife instead, Tang Shen, home alone with their four children.

Saki, now going by the name of Shredder, kills Tang Shen in cold blood, just before Saki gets home. Needless to say, he's pissed...

And he takes it out on the two foot soldiers standing over the body of his dying wife..

Anyways, Shredder has successfully gained full control of the foot clan, and while Yoshi would love to go and get his revenge, he is now a single parent with four small boys to protect.

Yoshi takes his four small children, and heads for a remote area in the wilderness, where they can find peace, and train, for the one day Shredder finds them, which sadly is much sooner then Yoshi would have liked. He does manage to train them to be expert ninjas, but they are still young children, and no match for the army that Shredder brings down upon them.

Fast forward another century to Stockgen labs in New York, where a young soon-to-be scientist named April O'neil interns. She is working with a mutagen, that is being tested on several animals, including four baby turtles, and one highly intelligent rat.

One late night, April O'neil is working late in the lab, when it comes under attack by the foot clan. April would have died, if not for the interference of the tiny rat that has been given the name Splinter.

Splinter, manages to escape with the four baby turtles, but not before crashing in the mutagen that the foot clan were trying to steal, along with the turtles, and a mangy old alley cat. Splinter takes the turtles, and escapes into the sewer, but the alley cat manages to run off with one of the turtles. Splinter does what he can to protect the other three, before watching a very strange transformation in himself, and the turtles.

Meet Donatello, Michelangelo, and Leonardo. (I'll get to Raphael later).

Splinter, who was given intelligence enhancing drugs as a small rat, has the ability to instantly recognize what has happened. He is, in fact, the re-incarnation of Hamato Yoshi, and these turtles are his four sons. All of them, have ingrained there years of training, and Splinter picks right off where he left off, and continues their ninja training. At the same time, he begins the search for his lost son Raphael.

Conclusion

Was all of this into necessary? Probably not, but I find too often on comic vine, that people say here's my character, here's some feats, your turn. I personally feel that in order to really appreciate what these teenaged turtles can do, you really have to know them. You have to understand that these aren't just metahumans with some ninja training. This is a family, that has been training since babies for a fight of there lives with the most dangerous man ever to walk the Earth, four times!

Everyone always talks about how Batman's training = better then everyone else. I challenge this constantly, because training only means so much, and there is so many more factors to consider. If I was to say, the turtle's are so skilled, that they can beat this Predator with their skills alone, because they were trained by Splinter, it would be incredibly vague, and no one should take it as is. Too often, people on the battle forums just accept these vague statements as fact, and don't ask why. That's what I wanted to do with this intro.

I wanted to show you how not only were the turtle's trained by the only man who could ever stand toe to toe with a foe, who literally can kill armies on his own, but he was training his own flesh and blood to survive an encounter with this same foe, and ultimately defeat him. This is a man who had his wife taken away from him by Shredder, and now has nothing left but his children, and Shredder wants to take them away from him too, and even succeeds in their human form. Now Splinter is continuing this already crucial training, and needs to push even harder, knowing that he is already failed once, and could never live with himself if his children were taken from him again.

So that's what I hope you take from this. These are characters with the skill to take on the most dangerous man on earth, and I hope I've done an adequate enough job showing the how and why this has come to be. I think this shows they absolutely have enough skill to tango with a Yautja. Later, I'll show you all the fun stuff like their superhuman strength, durability, speed, and overall TURTLE POWER!

Just noticed what the location actually is. Nice. lol. The turtle's are going to stop in at GNC before the battle and get some whey protein, creatine, and some HGH. Gotta get a pump before battle bro.

@tparks: Seem like a great intro. Well done man! I'll respond with my complete Veteran Yautja intro later on this week. Very likely no later than the weekends. I'll give you a little heads up though. Since your intro seems to be about the basic origins of the turtles and skills, that will be my heads up.

As we all know, Yautja are an extraterrestrial race who's culture revolves intensely around hunting other species in the galaxy, primarily Xenomorphs. This is due to the fact Xenos gather the best genetic qualities of the host or species in a current ecosystem/society. This results in the Xenomorphs to be physically superior to the host species they find.

We don't know the exact biological features of Yautja and evolutionary origins. We do know that their biological and genetic information is superior to every lifeform on Earth...

@tparks:

Alright. Now I'm going to do an intro for the Veterans and Yautja species in general, which will be concerning several of their aspects and how they provide an influence on their feats.

Time for a brief background of the Yautja species.

Origins

According to sources, Yautja are native to the planet Yautja Prime. There's not much known about Yautja Prime, but I do know a thing or two about the planet. Concerning the planet's astronomy, Yautja Prime is larger than Earth and even has an apparent asteroid belt, indicating even higher gravity than Earth. These play as one of the factors that explains why Yautja display such impressive meta-human strength and speed. This planet possesses two suns, thus raising its temperature. That plays as a factor for the Yautja's extreme radiation resistance.

As for the biosphere of Yautja Prime, its atmosphere must be composed mostly methane (Yautja respire mostly methane traces). The major biomes are dry boiling desserts with constant sandstorms. Then there is constant volcanic activity and environment once again raising the planet's temperature. And finally, jungle and rain forest related biomes.

Finally, the geography of the planet:

Gallery

There's only basic information on the geography/architecture of Yautja Prime. It is flourished with many stone temples, pyramids, and architecture that surpasses even the best structure designs and purpose of Egyptian, ancient Greece, Mayan, Aztec, and etc. Those features are found near the less advanced regions of Yautja Prime where the Jungle and Mesoa/Aztec Clan live. The more advanced regions have these docking and take-off structures to prepare for an intergalactic hunt by space craft.

We also see other metal structures with some emitting some type of beacon mixed in with surrounding stone structures. We even see a brief scene of energy based shields of some sort. Frequent takeoff and ship starting can also result in a raising of the planet's temperature. Another factor of Yautja heat resistance.

As far as natural geology, multiple volcanic activity is shown and common as we also see flowing streams of lava, again raising the planetary temperature. The last factor to my knowledge of Yautja heat resistance.

Yautja have came to Earth during the existence of the Maya, Aztec, Inca, and etc. time period, which is between 2000 BC and 250 AD (Mayan empire's existence).

However, according to the trophy room in AvP: Requiem, Yautja have potentially existed and came to Earth when dinosaurs still exist!!! Specifically 100 to 93 million years ago. I'll go into that later if you want:

Brief culture

Yautja are an extraterrestrial race who's lives and culture centers upon hunting other species in the galaxy for their honor, glory, and sport. They're a warrior/hunter race basically and want to prove themselves worthy of the clan. Many Yautja clans favor hunting this creature:

Xenomorphs... They are a force to be reckoned with. For they are even regarded as the perfect organisms by a science officer android in 2159. The only thing these hostile creatures have in mind is to slaughter or impregnate any differing lifeforms in sight to heighten their own survival. Xenos have many reasons to obtain such a title for perfect organism:

• Very durable Endo and Exoskeletal (bulletproof save for armor piercing & explosive ammunition/weapons)

• Top of the food chain

• Pressurized acidic blood

• Meta-human strength

• Meta-human agility

• Meta-human reflexes

• Meta-human senses

• Built in weapons that can shred and pierce through Colonial Marine & Yautja armor (inner-jaw, claws, razor-tail, acid spit, etc.)

• Random IQs (Wolves, dog, dinosaur, chimpanzee, primate, etc.)

• Caste systems

• Parasitic

• Genetic enhancing from impregnating other species

• Incredibly fast reproduction rate

• Potentially infinite energy/stamina

• Biomechanical

• Heal quite faster than Humans to an unknown degree

• Camouflage in darkness and machines

• Induce negative fear responses

• Strategizing

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones that I currently know of. Xenos even give platoons of Colonial Marines trouble and even Yautja at some times.

Back to Yautja, their cultural themes seem to be based on the Mesoamericans, specifically Aztecs, Mayans, Incans, and etc. mixed in with some Asian and native American cultural aspect. Some may say there's an involvement with Egyptian aspects too centering the fact Yautja have pyramids, temples, and architecture with hieroglyphics. That is possible, but I say mainly Mesoamerican since the Yautja came to Earth, they were worshiped by and taught the Mesoamerican people thus it's more likely the Yautja temples and pyramids are similar in design to the Mesoamericans.

Native American skills, tactics and warfare may be involved evidently from the fact Yautja have been shown to ambush, guerilla warfare, stealth, and psychological warfare flawlessly. Especially Yautja from the Jungle Clan. An addition to their culture.

Not to mention their hunting attire includes something like a breechcloth (for some clans) and several melee weapons included are spear-like, throwable, darts in gauntlets, traps (laser net, proximity mines, net) and daggers.

The Asian aspects are evident from that Yautja follow a code of honor and their martial arts (Jehdin) was inspired by a fusion of Asian martial arts (Penchak Silat, Aikido, Kyokushin Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Xilam, and other more complex combat skills said to be superior to all martial arts on Earth). Unblooded Yautja were even mentioned as having displayed skills as samurai. There are even Yautja who resemble samurais as well (Big Red).

Now the only part I'd read in this spoiler are the clan ranks. A Veteran Yautja is just one rank behind a Clan leader. They're the second highest ranked Yautja in the clan:

Training

Yautja join clans and train at a very young age and continue training until they retire near the end of their lifespan.

Since there are so many clans, each one has different methods of training, rules, members, equiping, and what not. Clans differ as well in what species they hunt. There is in fact a clan of Yautja who don't hunt Humans because they consider Humans quite easy prey. Clans/tribes are a common social structure for the Yautja race. Clans can vary in the amount of clan members it has. Often clans consists of unrelated male Yautja.

Clans are trained mainly by the Clan Leader, but the Veterans have been known to train lower ranking members as well.

Training consists of the Jehdin martial art discipline, enhancing senses, physical conditioning, psychological conditioning, weapon usage, tactics, special scenarios (military units), and etc. Parts of training are setting up a fighting match between two Yautja, perfecting martial arts technique, working out, and of course going on hunts helps with improvement. In fact, a common clan ritual is to get a Yautja's "dreadlocks" pierced with golden ring, which is known as a painful process as you also can't even make a single sound or tear of pain. This ritual is practiced until the recruit Yautja can barely or not at all feels pain.

If a Yautja isn't training, he is either hunting or is given a small break in one day until the next training session or hunt. Other than that, they train and hunt for most of their lives for enjoyment.

Because Yautja have such a long life span, they train and hunt for so long to the point were the hunter no longer feels fear, pain, mercy, or hesitation. Their skills will be perfected and will favor determinatation and motivation... And at peak physical condition for a Yautja.

Veterans nearly have a thousand years worth of galactic hunting the deadliest species, combat, and training experience, and have achieved it to become physically superior to their lower ranking clan brothers.

Biology

Yautja have superior genetics and biology to every lifeform on Earth. However, there's not much known about Yautja biology as every time a Yautja is captured for Human study, they successfully escape or destroy all the information found.

These extra-terrestrial are specially evolved this way from the planet they come from...

Brief list of Yautja biology:

• Natural thermal vison as shown in Predator 2. See the invisible and hiding prey through thermographic vision.

• Have a large, dense bone structure superior to that of Humans.

• They breathe 1% more oxygen, and 4% more nitrogen than humans. They can adapt to earth's natural gases, but it could only last for one week at the most. If Dr. Bergstrom is correct on her theory (Predator: Homeworld), this could be because this is what the atmosphere was like on Earth millions of years ago. When a Yautja looses his Biomask in an area lacking methane traces, he/she will resort to their breathing mask. Without the Biomask, the Yautja will result in a decrease in combat performance

• Predators can imitate the speech/sounds of other species, but do not necessarily understand the meaning of what they say. They often imitate voices of the species they are hunting to fool or terrify their prey. They do pick up languages quickly, however without formally studying the language as a secondary skill.

• They can hear a whisper up to 50 feet away and the incredibly silent sound of Xenos sneaking upon them (via their Biomask).

• invulnerable to electricity and incredibly resistant to radiation.

• Because of their tough hides, shrug off small-caliber bullets and military grade weapons only crack the skin, but don't penetrate past muscle tissue. Futuristic armor piercing weapons (Pulse rifles) can make their way through Yautja muscle and bones, but won't cause automatic death based on certain feats.

• Multiple biological classes (mainly amphibian, reptilian, and a small portion of mammilian, arthropod, and cephalopod)

• Superhuman physiology

• Superior intelligence to Humans

• Near or complete immunity to pain

• Sense of smell that rivals a bloodhound

• Lifespan of several thousands of years

• EU Yautja are 8 feet and 2 inches

• Incredibly resilient immune system and immunity to toxins

So as you see, they definitely ain't no man.

The Veterans

Now time for my favorite part!

The entire franchises have shown 6 Veterans hunters that I know of. I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones that are currently of my knowledge.

Wolf

This is the popular movie verse Veteran hunter as shown in AvP: Requiem. Shown to be quite talented and experienced, having the battle scars to further prove it. He puts the rest of the movie Predators in shame, even the so called "Super Predators" in terms of skill and arsenal. It is unknown of the clan Wolf has contributed too. Wolf is often to be considered a lone wolf, which may be the main reason why he's called 'Wolf'. In other words, a Yautja who hunts and trains on his own time by himself without a clan and has a personal honor code. Wolf it also likely to be a cleaner of some sort. Specifically an Xenomorph cleaner/exerminator.

This is evident in the film where he flies to Earth and exterminate the Xenomorph outbreak. Bringing with him a deadly arsenal for his high rank, but chooses from time to time to get up and personal with the Xenos in melee, taking them out with great ease. Sadly, Wolf is now deceased via atomic missile blast.

Feats:

• Stalemates a young PredAlien queen.

• Effortlessly overwhelming the strength of Xenomorph Warriors.

• Taking out multiple Xenomorph Warriors in close combat

• Easily shrugging off many blows from Xenomorph Warriors and the young PredAlien queen.

• Deadly arsenal

• A low end feat for Yautja, but relativley effortlessly outran a cop who had several seconds of a head start.

• Shoulder cannon shot blasts that melted through multiple layers of industrial metal.

• Snuck behind an Xenomorph, who have superhuman senses that allow them to detect heart beats from an incredible distance.

• Gets piled with solid thick concrete without any trouble.

Smiley

One of the Veterans in the old EU, he is overall a one shot character. Smiley is seen in a jungle along with pyramids and other low ranking clan members. He goes into a rampage after seeing his clan mates get dispatced by the Xenomorphs. His rampage results in a horde of fierce Xenomorphs dispatched without any trouble. As for the clan Smileys in, he's from the same clan in the first AvP film. Like every Veteran, having displayed exeptional combat and physical prowess in his clan. Smiley has exhibited multiple breathtaking feats.

Feats:

• Slayed an Xenomorph Queen in melee combat with just wrist blades. This Queen was larger than the one seen in the 'Aliens' film.

• Taking damage from Xenomorph Queen larger than shown in the 'Aliens' film. We don't see the complete fight between the Queen and Smiley in the comic, but according to the scan of the fight result, Smiley did in fact take damage from the Queen, as we see him battered in his own blood. Therefore indicating that he has recieve punishment from the Queen. Nevertheless, he still stood strong in the end.

• Effortlessly taking out groups of Combat Synthetics programed with multiple advanced martial arts knowledge that very likely surpasses the skills of the best martial artists ever existed on Earth.

• Dispatched a horde of Xenomorphs with perfect ease.

• Backhanded two Xenomorphs off their feet without even looking

• Reversed a leaping Xenomorph's momentum and still was able to flatten the creature's head against a wall.

• Xenomorph leaps after Smiley, resulting into the Xenomorph getting caught on Smiley's wrist blades, but still stood upright against the Xenomorph's momentum. Then Smiley tosses the creature into another same creature into a thick stone wall, crumbling on impact.

• Full powered shoulder cannon blast obliterates a good sized space vehicle.

Lefty

Similar to Smiley, Lefty is likewise a one shot character and an a Veteran in the old EU. Though he is much older than Smiley, but is more experienced as a result of his age and still matches the physical prowess like all the Veterans. He hunts and trains on his own without a clan just like Wolf. Therefore, he's a lone wolf who obtains such expertise in combat. Especially skilled with his smart disc in melee as we see him in action against a great horde of Xenos. This old hunter has only a few badass feats to watch out for.

Feats:

• Holding up the weight and strength of surrounding semi-warrior Xenomorphs piling over him.

• Slayed a huge horde of semi-warrior Xenomorphs in melee combat with a smart disc based on a scan quote and scans.

• Recieving numerous strikes from multiple semi-warrior Xenomorphs with no issues.

Prince

This hunter in this case is one of the Veterans in the video games. Some people confuse him as a form of royal power to the Yautja race due to his very name. That's not true however... The hunter's name originates from what the Human's named him for some unknown reason. If I had to guess, I'd say it's due to his exeptional level of skill and clever tactics. Prince seems like a young Yautja, yet was a very high ranking warrior. Humans mainly the Colonial Marines and Rykov, have made attempts to confine Prince for experiments. They ultimately fail to do so and in the end, dispatched by the fierce warrior. The hunter proves himself worthy of his rank.

Feats:

• Defeated Xenomorph Empress (much larger, durable, tougher, and intelligent versions of Queens).

• Dispatched two PredAliens.

• Taking out platoons of Colonial Marines in both melee and ranged combat.

• Defeated Rykov who was operating an Exosuit.

• This hunter has won his place for exhibiting the most insane durability feat of all Yautja. Prince survives a dropship crash and explosion into a canyon wall along with titanium walls. Prince was standing near the nose of the dropship the whole time where the dropship crashed with it into the walls first. Prince is seen with barely any damage and proceeds to slaughter hordes of Xenomorph Warriors.

• Slaughtered multiple hordes of Xenomorph Warrior with ranged and melee weapons.

• Shoulder cannon could vaporize Xenos in one shot

Dark

Another Veteran hunter in the video games. He's personally my most favorite Yautja of all. This warrior is no joke. As he is the Yautja to achieve the rank of a Veteran/Elite in the shortest amount of time. Dark became a Veteran in one day by the end of the campaign. However, this could also be due to his clan's rules that allow him to rank up quicker. Nevertheless, he definitely has proven to deserved his title. Depite Dark being a young Yautja, he's shown to be very clever, sensible, mighty, fearless, and very skilled for his age.

Feats:

• Slayed the Abomination (PredAlien)

• Dispatched hordes of Xenomorph Warriors in both range and melee combat throughout the whole campaign.

• Slaughtered platoons of Colonial Marines and Combat Androids in both of range and melee combat throughout the whole campaign.

• Grapple Xenomorphs and Combat Androids with ease.

• Humiliate Combat Androids in close combat.

• Slayed an Xenomorph Praetorian

• Outsmarted and fooled Colonial Marines and Combat Androids

• Bypassed Colonial Marine and Weyland-Yutani security systems

• Snuck behind Colonial Marines and Combat Androids equiped with motion sensors without being noticed.

• Shoulder cannon vaporized fully equiped Colonial Marines with a full powered blast.

• Wrist blades can easily slice through the armor of Colonial Marines and Combat Androids integrated with armor able to largely withstand pulse rifle ammunition.

Scarface

Now this insanely deadly and unstoppable warrior is just... He's beyond a one man army. Scarface by quite a lot is a force to be reckoned with, trust me... Out of all the Veterans here, I'd definitely say he is the most powerful. Ironically, he's was actually considered a low ranking Hunter by his clan. Though this may have been at first. His clan, the Dark Blade Clan, did strip Scarface of his current rank down to the lowest rank at the start of the game due to setting on his self-destruct decive that obliterated a whole city. This also led to the Humans to realize the existence and get their hands on Yautja and Yautja technology.

As punishment, Scarface's clan sent him to a full century of exile on a savage, harsh planet flourished with hostile creatures that have resemblance to the Arachnid Warriors from Starship Troopers, except these creatures were even larger (towering over Scarface and likely 3 times the size of normal Xenomorphs). The Hunter was sent to the planet with no equipment other than a glaive and wrist blades.

After his exile was over, he was now a higher rank, but still considered not high ranking by his clan mates. Meanwhile, Scarface was then sent on a mission to the same city now called Neonopolis. A few other of the Dark Blade Clan members were sent on the same mission as Scarface, but they were defeated and capture by Borgia Industries. The mission was to destroy all the copied and reversed engineered Yautja technology, kill the ones who misuse them, and locate his captured clan mates. In the end, Scarface succeeds and most likely was titled as a Veteran by his clan, along with other incredible feats.

Feats:

• Dispatched with both range and in melee combat, armies and platoons of futuristic genetically enhanced and cyber-implanted super soldiers (Monster Squad), war cyborgs (The Machine Men), Ronin bodyguards, proto-Colonial Marines, and gangs armed with futuristic military weapons and Yautja technology.

• Dispatched many hordes of Xenomorphs in both range and melee combat.

• Took out many giant Ulysses mech millitary droids. You can take them out in melee and with ranged/explosive attacks.

• The most impressive skill and stamina feat ever shown for Yautja. Scarface during his 100 years exile on a hostile planet, slaughtered a whole planet full of these massive, agressive creatures that have resemblance to Arachnid Warriors from Starship Troopers. Only these creatures were larger, likely quite stronger, durable, and faster as they move like a crab. We see that Scarface has survived his time of exile on the planet still in good condition and standing victoriously over a mountain-sized pile of the fierce creatures.

• Defeated his 3 captured clan mates (Stoneheart, Swift Knife, and Long Spear). His clan mates were genetically modified, implanted with cybernetics, and given improved Yautja weapons. Therefore allowing them to be absurdly tough, fast, and durable for Yautja standards. Ultimately in the end, Scarface managed to still defeat them by outsmarting them, melee and/or with ranged combat.

• Defeated the genetic augmented and cybernetic enhanced half Human and Yautja hybrid, Hunter Borgia. And of course, he was equipped with the top Dark Blade clan weapons.

• Can perfectly withstand the impact of falling off a building.

• Lifted up a LOCKED massive maximum futuristic security gate with somewhat ease. The gate was very large and heavy as it was by itself, and the fact that it was locked gave it even much greater resistance.

• Incredibly powerful arsenal.

• Escaped with pure strength futuristic electrical and magnetic bonds that were supposed to isolate Scarface. More impressively, Scarface performed the feat just after recieving massive damage from a large platoon of the Machine Men.

• Tore apart a futuristic armored soldier at the waist with relative ease.

• Crushed a helmeted soldier's head in one hand with ease.

• Could kill people by kneeing them or slaming them to the ground.

• Impressive matial arts movements and skills.

Conclusion

Now I'm kind of adapting to your response format. Anyway, great work on your conclusion. Quite an interesting story of the TMNTs. As I'm not very familiar with the TMNTs series besides I've occasionally seen their new tv cartoon series on nickelodeon. Other than that, the intro was great *thumbs up*. Can't wait to see what their feats are!

Alright, now here's my first brief summary of how I conclude the battle will end with a nice turtle soup meal and shell trophies for the mighty and indomitable Veteran, galactic hunter. I'll go into the Yautja feats in next response.

I find a Veteran Yautja being physically dominant over the turtles by a good amount. Veteran ranked Yautja as well are physically superior to their lower ranked clan mates by a decent amount. Specifically, stronger, faster, and more skilled than the lower ranked clan mates. This is due to the Veteran hunter's experience and training. They have been training much longer and far more experienced than the lower ranks of the clan, as well a being quite older. Veterans as I have mentioned ealier are often ranging from a thousand years to over a thousand years old, and have been practicing and hunting the deadliest lifeforms and opponents in the galaxy for their whole lives just for sport, missions, and honor and to be proven worthy of the clan. Their also under much pressure as a result of that they are at risk of facing harsh punishment and being dishonored by the clan if neglecting or breaking the code of honor. Now I understand that the turtles have fought opponents that are tougher and more durable than them which may allow them to handle the strength of a Yautja by their possible knowledge of Aikido. This martial art is used to redirect a stronger opponents strength elsewhere or back to them, which may allow them to combat stronger opponents. However, part of the Yautja martial arts, Jehdin, includes Aikido as well. There's even a scan to prove this as a Yautja easily defeated a taller and stronger Yautja than him by being more skilled in combat. Yautja have in fact defeated stronger, faster and more durable opponents than them as well, such as PredAliens and the genetically modified and cybernetic Yautja I mention earlier. Now the question would be if the turtles have fought opponents faster than them? Yautja have a good reach advantage over the turtles as well.

Simply put that there's no doubt that a Veteran Yautja is VASTLY greater than the turtles in terms of experience and training. In fact Veteran Yautja are very rarely ever seen by the Humans as the Veterans are just so skilled and tough that Humans are just too easy for them. Veteran hunters are very often hunting other more dangerous and/or more advanced lifeforms than Humans. Therefore, these hunters have also fought tougher oppononets than what the turtles have faced.

Where the Yautja originates and their alien physiology and genetics grant them superhuman qualities in every category. A Yautja hunter's physical prowess is heightened to peak levels for their species by training and the hunts/missions. Yautja do have a much more extended peak level of fitness than Humans. Combat Androids, cybernetic/genetic super soldiers, and cyborgs are even physically humiliated by Yautja.

As for the concern of skill, I'd still say the Veteran has the edge here in between a slight and great margin. As I mentioned earlier, a Veteran Yautja has superior experience than the turtles and not only that, but their Jehdin discipline is a martial art that if mastered, the user will have skills superior to every martial arts on earth. Of course, that's the case for a Veteran hunter. This all comes from their training and hunting exerience. As everybody should know, Yautja are an incredibly advanced race of extra-terrestrial being whos technology even surprasses Colonial Marine and Weyland-Yutani industries technology. Yautja have vastly dominant IQ levels to Humans. They can understand languages in a far shorter timeframe, have much higher thinking capability, greater at problem solving, better and more organized combat tactics, superior technology and craftsmanship, superior memory and more. No wonder why Weyland-Yutani industries want to capture a Yautja. These extra-terrestrials utilize superior technology and biology. So therefore, Yautja are also dominant over the turtles in terms of intelligence which will play a factor in the battle for strategizing and what not.

However, the biggest weakness of Yautja is their pride, which often results in their defeat. This though is mostly the case for the low ranked warriors. Veterans have seen and learned from their more previous mistakes and the mistakes of their low ranking clan mates. As a result, these high ranking warriors learned to control and minimize their pride in battle and become victorious. They are no longer deluded by their own pride.

Now finally, a Veteran Yautja's arsenal I find to be too much for the turtles. The standard hunting gear for Yautja is already devastating by itself. In the case that this is a Veteran, they are rewarded by the clan with tougher armor and more keen melee weapons, and deadlier ranged weapon. These are gonna give the turtles a pretty difficult time.

In the end, the victor shall be to the highly respected and honored, mighty and experienced alien warrior. My first battle rating is to the Veteran Predator of 8.8/10 battles (sorry for being too high, but you have a chance to change my mind

Because they are truly one--ugly--mothafu**er

@fitnesstribesman13: Tag me for votes man, looks like a great matchup! And good luck to you and tparks!

@thevivas: Ok, sure. Thanks and enjoy the debate!

Wow... This is gonna be good!

@fitnesstribesman13: So I'm still recovering on scans, and my old respect thread is next to worthless after the bugs CV had when I made it, but I'd like to get this going again, and I know you would too, so without further ado...

First and foremost, great intro on the Yautja. It's very informative, and a great read. Wikipedia should just delete what they have and put your post in. Seriously, nice job.

On to the debate.

I recognize a few problems the turtles are going to immediately face.

1. Predator is invisible
2. Plasma Caster

I'm going to spend the majority of this post, telling you how I think the turtles can deal with these glaring advantages the Predator has. I'm completely confident that the turtles are all physically superior to even the strongest predators ever shown, and much more skilled in straight up combat, so when they can get past these two advantages the predator has, they should have no problem winning IMHO.

Predator's Cloaking

This is a serious problem for the turtles, and I'm the first to admit this. The turtles have not fought against an invisible opponent yet. However, they have been through the Foot clan's training. As I described in my opener, Splinter was a member of the Foot Clan his entire life. Even now in the series, Splinter thinks the Foot Clan should still exist, but Shredder just needs to be eliminated from power. Splinter is actually a big advocate of the Foot Clan and it's training it can provide.

Part of the Foot Clan training, is fighting blind folded. While there are not any direct feats of the turtles fighting blind folded, it is apparent when looking at Alopex, who has been trained by both Shredder and Karai in the way of the foot.

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In these scans, Alopex has given 4 ninjas the same weapons as the turtles. She then blindfolds herself, and fights them to the death, so she can train for the day she fights the turtles. She has no problem taking them down.

While this doesn't necessarily mean the turtles have done this, but they have fought in complete darkness on a few occasions, as ninjas are known to do, and have not had trouble with this. Ninjas spend their lives in the shadows, they utilize a lack of visibility, and don't require really needing to see much.

For example:

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In these scans, the turtles take out a group of bank robbers, and do so all while remaining completely invisible. They waited until the car made it to the dark alley, where the bank robbers would not be able to see them, and they quickly and efficiently took all of them down without ever once being seen because of the darkness they fought in.

This is actually quite similar to how Predators hunt. Using stealth, waiting until their pray comes into a location that benefits them, and attacking from a vantage point. The turtles will understand this tactic, and are more then capable of fighting without sight.

That leads to the other problem, and as I also see it, another solution to the cloaking problem -

Plasma Caster

The Predator's plasma caster is a very deadly weapon, there is no denying this. However, this weapon could prove to be the Predator's downfall in this battle.

The turtle's are all at the peak of reaction times when it comes to bullets, lasers, and anything else thrown their way. They will have no problem dodging a plasma caster.

• The turtles are in a tight space, yet they dodge a total of 9 lasers all within a few inches of each other. That would mean that the lasers are being fired at an extremely rapid rate of fire, yet they easily weave between them.

• Again the turtles all weave through lasers being fired at an extremely fast rate of fire

• They have even shown reaction times fast enough that Donny ducked his head into his shell as a laser went right through where his head would have been. Donny is even casually saying, "Shees! Enough with the guns already." as the entire IDW universe has shown that they can dance around bullets and lasers all day.

But they're not limited to simply dodging lasers, their weapons (which are clearly more dense then normal ninja weaponry as I'm about to show) can even deflect these attacks.

It's not simply diving out of the way, it's blocking lasers with thin weaponry. Mikey's even fast enough to spin his nunchucks with the speed to create a shield to block lasers as seen in the top panel, and then afterwards swat them out of mid air as seen in the small panel on the left. This entire scan is really just full of them easily dodging an entire armies worth of lasers.

Raph was even facing an entire army all sporting lasers. Not just a small squadron, but an entire army where him and one other Neutrino soldier were the only surviving people left against the majority of Krang's war machine.

Raph deflects, dodges, dives, and weaves his way through an entire army of laser fire, and comes out just fine.

I think it's safe to say, that the turtles will be dodging a plasma caster which brings me to why this is a downfall to the Predator.

As soon as a Predator fires his plasma caster, the turtles will dodge, and know right where the shot came from. This takes away all of the Predator's initial advantage of being undetected. While he still will be cloaked, his location will be given up, and as we've seen from Predator's, they are not completely invisible anyways.

That's more then enough for the Turtles to see after they know where they're looking.

Conclusion

I don't want to put some huge post here yet, I just wanted to address those two glaring points before we move on, and how I see the turtles working with it. Later, I'll go on to show why I am confident that the turtles are both physically superior and more skilled then even the most impressive Predators.

@tparks: Cool beans! I'll check it out sooner or later. Seems like a cool read ;)

@fitnesstribesman13: @tparks: Tag for votes please!

Looks awesome so far

@killerwasp: Will do once this CaV goes into votes :)

@fitnesstribesman13: one of these days ill need to respond to ur giant wall of stuff for the pred vs elite lol.

@killerwasp: Damn man lol that was like a while back though, but feel free to do so if you do.

Tag for votes!

@fitnesstribesman13: ikr?

@killerwasp: Mmhhhhhmm..

Wrong, wrong, you're all wrong! Do I win yet?

@tparks:

@tparks:

Very good now we got back in touch. Anyways, time for the argument!

I'm going to spend the majority of this post, telling you how I think the turtles can deal with these glaring advantages the Predator has. I'm completely confident that the turtles are all physically superior to even the strongest predators ever shown, and much more skilled in straight up combat, so when they can get past these two advantages the predator has, they should have no problem winning IMHO.

We'll see about that. As I'm not sure if you are even familiar with the physical and combat prowess Yautja possess in the scans and quotes I own... From the arguments I've came across with Yautja where I show them my scans, it's often the case that the Yautja was tougher or much tougher than they expected... The only way I see the turtle's having the physical prowess edge is if their feats are higher than the highest end strength feats of Spiderman...

Predator's cloaking – counterargument

Hmm... Gotta say, well put argument right there. I'll take it. The cloaking device wasn't really going to be a big factor anyways, as I only gave it the 10 second rule just for the hell of it. Now here's something about the cloaking device that most people haven't realized. Depending on the model, it has shown that it can be used as a psychological weapon/tactic as well.

The clans that use low tier cloaking devices that still renders them translucent, but visible, could have a different purpose than for complete stealth. These are the ones that the Jungle Hunter clans utilize, like the one you showed in the video.

Low tier cloaking devices are not entirely used for stealth, but to psychologically terrorize or heavily perplex/stun their prey with their appearance. These models of cloaking devices render the hunter into appearing similarly to a ghost-like figure. This ghost-like appearance is amplified with the glowing eye effect of the hunter's biomask, in a foggy/misty environment, and guerilla tactics. Which can fool or terrorize their prey into believing they are seeing ghosts, having a hallucination, or going mentally insane. Well, in this case the low tier cloaking devices usually just heavily perplexes and distracts/stuns their prey due to its appearance. As shown below:

Hell, the Yautja in Predator 2 was nicknamed "Ghost" due to this very reason.

On the contrary, there are more advanced clans that utilize much higher tier cloaking devices to the point that it renders the hunter perfectly invisible. No joke:

Furthermore, the quality of the cloaking device has seemed to also be associated with the hunter's rank. Where the higher the rank, the higher the cloaking's quality is. This is even amped by the fact in the AvP 2010 game where you could play as a Yautja and be unseen by the Colonial Marines whilst cloaked. Not even if you are almost at point blank range towards a Colonial Marine, they can't detect you unless you make sudden, often rapid movements. This is comming from personal gaming experience with the AvP 2010 where I bothered to get up at close range to a Colonial Marine and the marines would not see jack!

Plus, there's in fact an in game quote which basically states that Colonial Marines can't see you while cloaked unless you make sudden, quick or clumsy movements that would be revealed on the Colonial Marines' motion detector. Although, the Yautja I'm refering to in the game is Dark when he was still a youngblood warrior. Anyways, my idea that a hunters' ranking is associated with the quality of the cloaking device because of the comparison I made with the veteran Wolf pred between the other low ranking Yautja in the films. Furthermore, Wolf's cloaking device was shown to have higher quality than all the Yautja in the first AvP, Predator, and Predator 2.

Nevertheless, I agree with you, especially with 10 second duration, the cloaking device would be useless for steath, but maybe for minimal pychological warfare. Since the cloaking device as I see it would perplex the turtles, which would buy some time for the Veteran pred to observe first their prey's equipment then down to a genetic breakdown. This would give the Veteran the necessary knowledge in concern of their prey to heighten their chances of a successful hunt. Yautja are capable of this battle tactic by the intriguing features of the biomask:

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Basically, the biomask can analyze the genealogy, biology, physiology, equipment, combat disadvantages & advantages, and neurological state and information of their prey and opponents! Why is this a vital advantage? Because the Veteran pred would be fully aware of what phyical prowess the turtles are capable of, what attacks are most fatal or effective against the turtles, know the turtles' equipment and what they do, and if the turtles have gone hostile before they plan to attack.

Therefore, the Veteran pred regardless of prep or not, will have all the necessary knowledge of the turtles to use against them. Unlike the turtles who only have been given prior and very basic knowledge of what kind of opponent they are facing and info about their opponent.

Anyways, Yautja like you said do utilize other means of stealth tactics besides their cloaking device. They've mastered the ability to move in complete silence and go unnoticed. Yautja can even control stop their heart from beating! Furthermore, there's been cases of Yautja who bypassed the Colonial Marines' motion sensors (these motion sensors can detect movements as little as a mouse running) and even the superhuman senses of the Xenomorphs (they can detect your heartbeat and can smell a chestburster inside of a host).

This is coming from personal experience playing the AvP 2010 game where I'd make a stealth kill on a Colonial Marine by luring him away from his platoon (with the sound mimicry device which I'll go over later) and kill him/her from behind unnoticed.

Elite ranking Yautja take this stealth to a whole 'nother level by neglecting their cloaking device while hunting Xenos. Where the Veteran hunter has showings of getting the drop on Xenos as I said before utilize superhuman senses (smell and hearing) to detect heartbeats and smell chestbursters inside hosts:

Other documented stealth feats of Elite ranked hunters and even low ranking Yautja are their showings of sneaking into an Xeno hive without being noticed by the Xenos. I'll try to see if I can find the quote or scan later on. Speaking of the senses of the Xenos, as in the first film, it seems that the Xenos could conistently smell or detect the heartbeat of the humans from the other parts of the pyramid. Of course there are also the popular and accepted theories that Xenos use electroreception and detect phermones in other lifeforms.

So even without cloaking devices, they're still very stealthy hunters no doubt. Thus I see that the Veteran pred will have no issues getting the drop on the turtles with a sneak attack when he chooses to do so.

Now the Yautja do utilize other tactics besides the one you mentioned. I'll just list them and go over them in later responses:

◾ Disarming tactics

◾ Psychological warfare

◾ Guerrilla warfare

◾ Ambush tactics

◾ Examining their prey's notable weaknesses, genetics, physiology, and equipment - via bio-helmet

◾ Playing possum (faking death via Yautja take their special physiology to their advantage. Which they can halt their heart beats)

◾ Use surrounding to their advantage and against their prey

◾ Lure their prey into traps/ambush

◾ Tire out/drain their opponent's stamina

Predator's Shoulder Cannon – Counterargument and agility feats

Ok, while you do have some good points, there's something you seem to be unaware about the shoulder cannon that I honestly have to say, almost completely defeats your argument about it...

The shoulder cannon has select fire modes that render the turtles' agility useless...

Specifically, the shoulder cannon possesses three select fire modes which will pose devastating assault upon the turtles:

Charged shot mode - This firing mode is used for a quick kill or even vaporize well armored prey or military units and starships if encountered. It fires an incredibly consentrated blast of plasma. Charged shots are powerful enough to vaporize Colonial Marines equiped with full body armor and obliterate sizeable starship:

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Rapid firemode- This firing mode is used to overwhelm encountered, platoons/armies of military units and very effective against human military units and minor military vehicles on hunts i.e. Military trucks. I may also be used to scare their prey and get them to run all over the place, since they wouldn't want to get caught in the shoulder cannon's firing direction with this firing mode selected. Each shot is as powerful as a single, normal shoulder cannon blast which is very deadly as is it. It fires at a rate that is shown to be similar to a M134 Minigun – this firing mode took out an entire platoon of soldiers in no time. I mean, this would definetly get their prey and the turtles to better start runnin'. Or hell will go loose. I still think the turtles will have a difficult time avoiding all these blasts considering how very high its rate of fire is, as I mentioned before:

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Beam mode - This firing mode is the most powerful and shoots a continuous, insta-hit beam of insanely concentrated plasma that is used mainly to take down encountered heavy and air units and vehicles during a hunt; or for a cheap shot. The beams are so strong, they can vaporize two soldiers in one shot at the same time and blast large deep holes into WW2 tanks. Using this fire mode will not only vaporize the turtles in one shot, but they have absolutely no chance of trying to dodge or avoid this firing mode. Because the beams as I said before are literally an insta-hit shot:

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Here are also some feats for how devastating a normal shoulder cannon blast can still be:

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1^st scan: obliterating military truck in one shot.

2^nd scan: blasting a large hole through a tree.

3^rd scan: blasting a tree down.

4^th scan: brought down an armored Colonial Marine UD-4L Cheyenne Dropship in one shot.

5^th scan: blasting a large hole through the hull of a Yautja scout ship. If I've made the GIF in a longer timeframe or watched this scene from AvP: R, you would see that the scout ship was brough down towards Earth in just one shot!

6^th - 7^th scan: obliterating an Apache helicopter in one shot.

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1^st scan: dispatching a T-rex in one shot.

2^nd scan: they were stated to be capable of blasting through the thick and large ship's hull.

3^rd scan: armor even in the far future, is no match for the shoulder cannon.

So as you can see for sure the shoulder cannon can indeed dispatch the turtles in a shot or two. And actually, the Veteran pred is actually capable of taking out all of the turtles with his shoulder cannon if he ever decides to do so. Since I've already mentioned they have no way of dodging the speed of the blast from the beam mode, which is an insta-hit beam if you know what I'm saying, which could be around the speed of light or even FTL speed. The turtles can't aim-dodge the blast either because I'm sure you're familiar with that it relies on a targeting system, which is 100% accurate.

A Yautja can also come in for a kill on the turtles with a steath kill. In other words, a sneak attack by sneaking upon and ambushing the turtles by using his other stealth tactics as I've explained before. Where the Veteran hunter could also just secretly lure one of the turtles far from the group and dispatch him silently from behind. Then the hunter immediately takes off without being noticed. It sums up the tactic the hunter had used in the first Predator film on Blaine:

The only way to avoid getting shot by the shoulder cannon is to quickly find effective cover, move faster than the blast can travel, or move faster than the targeting system. However, that won't matter once the shoulder cannon is set to rapid fire or beam mode where the hunter's prey will have no chance of running. Either way, the targeting system could still track down very agile prey like Xenos who I'd argue are even more agile and possess stronger reflexes than the turtles. Considering I own documented feats of the weaker drone caste Xenos consistently dodging shoulder cannon blasts at close and even point blank range. Along with bullet dodging capabilities the Xenos had in Alien: Resurrection.

In addition, the shoulder cannon can be an unpredictable weapon considering the hunter doesn't have to take the time to aim with his hands at his prey. Furthermore, do you notice how when using a gun, you have to take the time to pull it out and point it at your target? This is where I'm getting to the point that it takes time to first take out the gun and pointing it towards your target. Your target will notice the pulling out and pointing motion you made with the gun. This gives your target a warning of a short chance to react by taking cover or running out of the gun's direction. Now this doesn't apply if the users have already pulled out their guns and are aiming at all times. It though that they may have to make a short motion to turn their gun, aiming directly to their target.

The shoulder cannon is void of all these issues. Since the shoulder cannon is always equipped and ready to use from the hunter's shoulder and it's always aiming at it's prey.

Simply put, all the turtles could be dispatched very quickly, the end... HOWEVER... and this is a BIG however... Notice how I said that morals are on? This is exactly the reason why I chose that option. So that the Veteran hunter won't just cheap shot all the turtles. While it is true that the Veteran hunter with no doubt is a total killing machine, he does possess a few certain moral, or rather limiting themselves to make it a fair and valuable fight between their prey, or “honorable dual.” This is a common behavior seen from Yautja, notably from the duel between Jungle hunter and Dutch in the first film, Wolf challenging PredAlien in AvP: R, Broken Tusk challenging a Matriarch Xeno queen bare fisted, and several other comics I briefly remember.

How the hunters limit themselves is they strip down all their equipment except for some type of melee weapon of their choice. Which is usually the wrist blades, or sometimes even bare-handed. But before that, the hunters take out the weakest, yet worthy/armed prey first so they can save the toughest and most skilled prey last to challenge in an honorable melee duel. But this, I'll explain later.

So in this case, the Veteran hunter will more than likely dispatch Don, Mikey, and Raph first by gunning or taking them down with his shoulder cannon, spear gun, smart disc, wrist bolt, plasma caster, net gun, laser net trap, proximity mine, combi-stick, power glove etc. Then that leaves Leo the last man standing due to Leo being the most skilled and toughest out of all the turtle. Which will lead to the Veteran hunter stripping down all his equipment in front of Leo where the Veteran will now challenge Leo to a straight up h2h duel. In the end, I see that the Veteran would still slaughter Leo in h2h combat. As the Veteran outmatches Leo in physiologic power, experience by far, and skill.

Now because you put the agility and reflex feat down for the turtles, it's my turn to show you what kind of incredible agility and reflexes the Yautja possess! But first, I just want to point out that laser bolts are usually portrayed and seen to travel quite slower than bullets, which Yautja have evaded as well. As we've seen from Star Wars, Star Trek, TMNT's cartoons/shows, and more where we notice how the laser weapons in these franchises fire lasers that travel notably slower than bullets.

While in this case, even low ranking Yautja have dodged and evaded modern military grade and even futuristic gunfire at close range aimed by squads of trained soldiers with ease! Since I've argued that laser bolts are slower and much slower if we take in account for the futuristic weapons (which would be more powerful and faster than modern weaponry) that the Yautja dodged, and counting the fact that low ranking Yautja have dodged more bullets at closer range with ease, I stand my ground that the Yautja are surprisingly more agile and have higher reflexes. Also, take note that this is an Elite rank Yautja, who are physically superior to their average, Youngblooded clanmates. I'm bringing this up again because all the agility and reflex feats I'll display have been done by low ranking, average Youngblood Yautja.

Here's to give you an idea of the power comparison between an Elite/Veteran Yautja and your average Youngblood Yautja:

An Youngblooded warrior would be killed effortlessly by an Xeno Queen in melee combat, but an Elite warrior can slay an Xeno Queen with mid-difficulty in melee combat.

Therefore, the Veteran hunter will be even more agile and stronger than your average Youngblood Yautja. This is all due to the Elite hunter having to train and hunt far longer than the Youngblood hunter has. Which is that the Elite hunter has trained and hunted for all of his life for about or over a millennia. I can't stress that enough to say that is far more experienced than the turtles who have like around merely a decade of training IIRC...

With that taken care of, here's how impressively reactive and agile Yautja have shown to be:

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1^st scan: avoiding turret gunfire while flipping over a mini-van.

2^nd scan: dodging modern military grade gunfire from a group of soldier and a thrown grenade.

3^rd - 4^th scan: outmaneuvered a speeding sportscar (the car has no rear doors) with ease as the hunter was merely toying with the driver by giving him a scare. Plus the hunter immediately got back on track onto his hunt.

5th - 6thscan: bullet timing feat (lifts up body AFTER the bullets were already fired). Take note that those soldiers were equipped with futuristic weaponry, which can fire bullets faster and at a faster rate than our modern weaponry.

7th - 9^th scan: evading futuristic gunfire from platoons of trained soldiers. Some of the sources were even in front of and behind the hunter. Only one and I mean ONLY one bullet does manage to hit him, take note that his skin doesn't even crack, and that was from more powerful futuristic weaponry. Anyways, the hunter wasn't really too focused on evading the bullets. He just went after the scientist out of pure rage. Also the hunter leaps over a 40~ fence whilst carrying a full grown man.

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1^st scan: impressive acrobatic-like movements

2^nd scan: leaping into a helicopter from the trees. Notice the distance? The helicopter stayed stationary and the hunter was hiding in the trees behind the crashed ship. The hunter lept off the trees and into the helicopter. That's impressively far!

3^rd scan: dodging POINT BLANK modern military grade assault rifle gunfire aimed by a CIA member!

4^th scan: easily hopping over military grade heavy machine gun gunfire.

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1^st scan: evading modern military grade gunfire without getting hit by a squad of trained soldiers.

2^nd - 3^rd scan: evading futuristic pulse rifle gunfire at close range by once again, a squad of soldiers. Pulse rifles can shoot bullets faster and at a much faster rate than modern weaponry.

4^th - 5^th scan: leaping from building rooftop to rooftop.

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1^st scan: dodging a full clip (30 rounds) of an assault rifle aimed by a trained soldier at close range with ease! In addition, the hunter was also standing on a ledge while dodging the bullets, making this feat even more impressive!

2^nd scan: dodging a bazooka rocket at VERY close range.

3^rd scan: an adolescent unblooded Yautja was stated by the expert martial artist who had reflexes that surpassed Colonial Marines and was trained by Yautja as well, Machiko Noguichi. She stated that the hunter was fighting so fast, she could scarcely follow his movements.

Time for some quotes too...

Dodging assault rifle gunfire at point blank with ease:

"The spear was snatched from his back by a shadowy, indistinct figure and the second man let loose with his AK-100, spraying bullets at the barely glimpsed spear-wielding killer. The thing moved so fast it almost seemed to be dodging the bullets as it turned and ran back down the canyon. The Russian charged after it, bellowing. . . . The creature holding the spear seemed to side-step the bullets easily. Then it jabbed the spear forward, and Gunin no longer worried about spikes or bullets, or anything else as the thing cut his heart out with a single quick gesture. After that, the alien disappeared, blurring into invisibility . . . "Those things are fast enough to dodge bullets, if they see them coming," Schaefer explained, "and even if you hit them, they're damn near bulletproof.”

-Cold War

Moving so fast, the hunter turns into an invisible blur to soldier's eyes:

"Someone, Pushkov or someone obeying Pushkov, fired; Gunin felt burning lines of pain as bullets tore through his right sleeve and through his arm but the pain was not bad, not enough to make him scream-- the spikes had already hurt him enough to deaden his sensitivity.

The creature holding the spear seemed to side-step the bullets easily.

Then it jabbed the spear forward, and Gunin no longer worried about spikes or bullets, or anything else as the thing cut his heart out with a single quick gesture.

After that, the alien disappeared, blurring into invisibility”

-Cold War

Moving faster than soldier's eyes can follow:

"As he did, the ruined door slammed open, and there were those things. Buyanov moaned.

"Devil!" Anatoli said.

Then, without warning, moving faster than human eyes could follow, the foremost of the three creatures rammed a spear through Anatoli's chest. Anatoli crumpled. With his lung pierced, he couldn't even manage a dying scream. . . . One of the creatures ran after him, moving inhumanly fast, so fast Buyanov could not properly follow the motion. As Dmitri's hand reached for the alarm handle, the thing's hand slammed down on the top of the Russian's head."

-Cold war

Stated to be capable of dodging modern sniper rounds, even if the hunter didn't notice you with the sniper rifle:

"The predator came out of the spaceship again, in full armour. Gustat had a clear shot, and the ArmaLite AR-50 wasn't a joke. He would probably make a dent in the Predator's armour, maybe even several dents. Possibly kill him, although the creatures’ reflexes were so freakishly fast that Gustat doubted it, not without a chance at a headshot sans helmet."

-South China Sea

Now here's an agility and reflex feat that is relatively similar to how the turtles consistently dodge laser bolts. Except this feat is more impressive if you point out the other important factors in the quote. So what's happening in this quote are a small pack of Youngblood Yautja fighting off an army of Xenomorph Warriors. It tells us they were dodging the Xenomorphs' attacks and even evading multiple pressurized acid bursts (Xeno hides bursts with acidic blood when it cracks from damage) at point blank range, which is like drying to dodge a sneeze you don't see comming with like 10 times the volume at point blank. Most importantly, Lara (former marine), Noguchi (she's a markswoman with using Yautja weaponry), and a MAX Xeno exterminator were equipped with full-auto plasma weapons given to them by the Yautja. These plasma weapons were equivalent to the firing rate of a shoulder cannon set on rapid fire mode.

All of them were unloading full charges (save for the Xeno exterminator who was aiming rather for more accurate shots) and still couldn't even land a single shot on any of the Yautja:

“The Queen continued in her bursts of screams, all but hidden by a mass of her minions, bugs jumping into the battle as more came out of the dark, running at the Hunters, the Hunters dancing and cutting like samurai-- both alien groups slowly, steadily gaining ground on the three humans.

Lara didn't think about it, couldn't, aiming and firing and aiming again, the bugs blasted into acid splash as the Hunters dodged and fought, and somehow managed not to die-- CLICK CLICK CLICK-- AND Lara heard Noguchi's weapon go dry, even over the screams and explosions, as chilling as terrible as the Queen's fury.”

-AvP: War

What makes this quote more impressive than simply dodging lasers is because not only were the hunters dodging numerous plasma shots from weapons with impressive rates of fire, but they were dodging the plasma shots while the hunters still had to worry about fighting off the army of Xenos at the same time.

Conclusion

Well there ya have it folks. I just wanted to reply with a post that relates to what we're now discussing. Simply put, I find that the turtles will also have a hard time of being able to even touch the Veteran hunter with the kind of agility and reflexes Yautja possess. Plus I wanted to clear up the misconceptions and the important missing facts in regards to the cloaking device's and shoulder cannon's capabilities and purpose. Just so I can further prove that the shoulder cannon can quicky put an end to three of the turtles, save for Leo who will be challenged to a duel by the Veteran.

But I still have much yet to go over the standard Yautja hunting equipment and the tactics Yautja utilize. However, I'm currently trying to get in the process of doing more research on Yautja tactic, or just rather collect the evidence of all their tactics. So I may be out for a little while to reassemble and search for their tactical feats and more information concerning Yautja equipment. But I may be out for a little while once we reach to this part of the debate regarding the combatants' equipment and tactics.

Then as you mentioned tparks, we still have much to analyze each of our opposing combatant's information and feats and display our own combatant's feats and information...

Just for the record, I would have posted sooner if my computer wasn't actin lika b*tch..

@tparks@fitnesstribesman13 Why was this never finished??

Cause I'm terrible at writing posts in time, and my old respect thread is so buggy and out of date, that I got too lazy to write decent posts within a reasonable time constraints, while keeping up with modern IDW turtles, who have advanced so far beyond my buggy respect thread anyways.

I know, terrible excuses, but I will say that I would like to return to this at some point in the future. I've got other things going on at the moment, and the thought of re-doing countless hours worth of making scans from the now 50+ main series, and multiple micro-series sounds a little daunting at the moment.

@tparks: Aw man.. well hopefully this can continue cause it was looking like a pretty good debate. Lol

@thevivas: Because it didn't I guess lol? And thank god @tparks you're back!!!

In all seriousness though to you Vivas, well I did really want to keep it running, but tparks seemed to be out for a while and therefore he couldn't respond for a while either.