#1 Edited by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

ThunderGodsWrath-Wonder Man, Apollo, & Superboy

@Veitha-Iceman, Magik, Susan Storm

Rules

  • Morals Off
  • No morals
  • Fight to death or KO
  • Standard Gear
  • No prep
  • No knowledge
  • Fight takes place here
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#2 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath: you can start if you want, I'm gonna reply tomorrow

#3 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha: Okay.

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#4 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath: I'm starting...

Morals are off so this means that my team has got a big advantage because they will use their powers in deadly way.

Susan could easily brain bubble them or make their heads explode, while Illyana could BFR them or teledismember them. And Bobby has got the ability to freeze someone's brain or to freeze every molecule in heir bodies.

Apollo won't be a problem because he's shown to become weak when he's exposed to low temperatures, and Ice-Man is going to keep him so cold that his powers are going down pretty fast.

He can keep absolute zero's temperatures, and also protect his teammates while he's doing so, this means that the entire environment is going to be so cold that Apollo will lose his powers while Superboy and WM are going to be very weaked(if Bobby doesn't just flashfreeze them).

Against Superboy Sue would just have to put a force field around him at the start of the battle. His force fields are able to stop telekinesis and other psionic powers very easily, so they would stop him very soon.

Then WonderMan is the only left(well, if Magik doesn't BFR them all at the start of the battle, or if she doesn't bring them to Limbo), and Ice-Man, Illyana and Sue can beat him very easily. Sue can contain him with a force field while Bobby freezes him or Illyana teledismember him, or Sue could just win using a bubble into the brain.

#5 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha: Sorry, have been busy. My post will be up later on today.

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#6 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath: ok :)

#7 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha: I'm ready. I'm going to start with Apollo, because I need to get scans for the other guys.

Apollo should be viewed as a guy as powerful as let's say Sentry, or Blue Marvel in physical strength. That sort of strength is something that will rip through Invisible Woman's defenses. Sue has not shown the power to block physical strength of that level, and I fail to see how she would stop him from busting all of her shields up. My team clearly has the physical strength advantage by a huge margin, and also the durability to tank there blasts. Your teams durability is horrible compared to mine. Only person on your team with any significant durability. I have someone on my team who can fly half way around the world in 30 seconds. That's insanely fast, and he has the option to take anyone out of the battle if he wants to with it. Speed blitzing is also something Apollo does a lot.

Against Captain Atom, wins, but he gets obliterated after by Atom's explosion

As you can see Apollo is quite the powerhouse, and is arguably the strongest on my team. ( Wonder Man may be stronger ) What is there defense going to do against strength like that? One morals off shot from Apollo upon Invisible Woman, and her head will come off her shoulders. Magik is the most troublesome one in my opinion. Iceman can get blitzed to the sun by Apollo, and left there to die. I heard in order for Iceman to die all of his atoms must be destroyed, and the sun is fully capable of that. Magik has the power to send my team to limbo, but I am not entirely sure how that works. Does she teleport them there against their will or does she have to push or get them through a portal?

This is how strong Wonder Man is

Not to mention Superboy. This is just my starting, your turn !

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#8 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath: Sue has also got some good reaction feats, she could create a force field around my team and make them completely invisible at the start of the battle.

She's reacted to a nova explosion, this means that she's got at least nanoseconds reaction speed. She is going to make my team full invisible and protected in less than a second.

IceMan can't be beaten just by destroying every atom of his body because he will just move his coscience somewhere else. The only way they have to kill him is to destroy all the moisture in a large area, and they essentially can't because they have got moisture in their body and he will be able to use it to reform.

So if Apollo tryes to speedblitz him, he's just going to move his mind into the moisture in Apollo's body and then remove it completely(and he could do this to every member of your team). Anyway Apollo has shown to be very weak to cold(Midnighter beat him using it, but I don't remember the issue), so a single hit from Ice-Man should be able to make him weak enough to allow Magik and Sue to beat him. And considering that my team would be invisible at the start of the battle it won't be too diffuclt.

Magik can BFR them into Limbo easily just thinking, she doesn't have to make them fall inside the step discs or anything like this. She just has to think and the entire battle is going to be moved to Limbo, and here she's got reality manipulation powers and she's near to omnipotence(an Hellord in his/her own domain is essentially a relity warper)... I'm going to upload the scan of her BFRing people later because my PC doesn't want to upload it lol.

Sue can take any kind of energy based attack from Apollo, she can contain a supernova blast without effort

Then against WonderMan Sue would work pretty well: she can withstand his hits relatively easy.

She's taken hits from a Celestial, from both Namor and Black Bolt at the same time and she's easily stopped Doom and the Thing.

She's also KOed Namor with a single hit and without any kind of effort.

Imagine if she focus a hit like that - or even stronger since she doesn't concentrate too much to KO Namor, so she could do much better - in a single beam and she hit WM with it, it should be enough for her to KO him.

Superboy's powers are psionic, aren't they?? She could just surround him with a force field and stop his powers while Magik and Bobby hit him very hard.

To sum up, my team tactic would be this: at the very start of the battle Sue would create a force field around them and make them all invisible while A) Magik teledismember them or BFRs everyone to Limbo and she turns them to dust or B) Ice-Man flash freezes them all, and this would be particulary effective on Apollo or C)Sue puts a bubble inside their bodies and she kills them. They won't be able to go through Sue's shields before they can do any of this things.

#9 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3215 posts) - - Show Bio
@Veitha:  
 
Sorry for interfering...But can you tell us what comic that is from where Sue reacts to a supernova. Just asking.
#10 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@King-Stranglehold da first: It should be Avengers vol.I #300

#11 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3215 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

Oh okay. Thanks.

#12 Edited by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha:

Just to point out-

Invisible Woman can put up shields as much as she wants. It still does not help the fact that they will get destroyed. Invisible Woman cannot stand up to Wonder Man & Apollo's strength. There strength is in the millions. Iceman is not reforming if Apollo speedblitzes him into the sun. Iceman cannot do anything about being thrown into the sun, because as I've said. Apollo has flown half way around the planet in 30 seconds. That's insanely fast, and is like a Superman level speed feat. Magik is also going to have a hard time trying to BFR people to Limbo if Superboy will be on her neck with his T/P control.

Superboy is very skilled with his T/P, and is also pretty powerful. He has taken out the Teen Titans alone without to much trouble.

Not to mention they guy has good durability.

Iceman be powerful, but Superboy has control over his molecules, and will be able to hold off Iceman for a while if it comes to it. Which it will. Magik has to be the first one out of this battle, because she holds the course of this battle in her hands. If she teleports my team to Limbo, we will be at a big disadvantage, and will probably cost my team the battle. But seeing how Apollo has the speed to speedblitz anyone on your team he will go after Magik, and either throw her into the sun, or just leave her in space so her explodes from lack of oxygen. So right off the bat Magik will get blitzed. Also if she has to think to do it, I am pretty sure Apollo moves faster than thought. Even if Apollo doesn't fight her, Superboy can mess with her by using his T/P on her, throwing her around. But right now, I need to see these scans of Magik in Limbo to say how to defeat her, because if she is neigh omnipotent in there, I may have a very small chance at her. Maybe she can still be damaged or defeated in Limbo. Wasn't she defeated by Black Widow in there during AVX. I know it's PIS, but that has to mean that she can be defeated there.

Iceman has the power to be a very powerful mutant among the best, but he barely shows it. Always seen as a second rate X-Men. His powers won't be able to help him if say Apollo sends him to the sun, space, or leaves him on Pluto or something. Not to forget Apollo a like Superman gets amped from the sun, so he can go get a powerup to fight Magik after he's done BFR'ing Iceman.

Against Invisible Woman, Superboy will use his T/P blasts to get around her shields, since Apollo will be done with Iceman, and Superboy will hold off Magik until he's done. ( He's going to get dragged into Limbo, lol ) Superboy has destroyed large areas with his T/P. Wonder Man can also attend his ionic form for better defense.

Traded blows with Hulk & Thor, he's pretty strong physically.

I can't really say much more until you explain more about how Limbo works, and how powerful Magik is in it. So, i'm going to leave it at that for now. Your turn :)

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#13 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath: Ok...

Sue has shown nanoseconds reaction speed reacting to a nova explosion, so she is going to keep her shields around my team and she is also going to make it invisible. Sue can take hits from Apollo and WonderMan, she's contained a nuclear bomb that would have killed the other heroes using her shields, she's taken hits from Angrir and she was going to beat him - Angrir stomped Red Hulk -, she's contained an assault for 24 hours and and I've already shown her taking blasts from Celestials.

She is strong enough to take their attacks for enough time to allow Illyana to BFR them all into Limbo or to allow Ice-Man to freeze Apollo.

She can BFR them like she did to those people, and bring them to Limbo or into another dimension and trap them there(for example she could bring them to Mephisto's dimension). If she brings them to Limbo, she'll be able to beat them all very easily: she's a Hellord, so in her domain she's the strongest person and she can do whatever she wants.

She is able to depower people:

She has also the same abilities as any other HellLord, since she's as strong as Cyttorak when in Limbo.

She can essentially bend reality here, coz she can shape Limbo in every form she needs. And she's got an infinite amount of demons to summon, and some of them are strong enough to beat Ms.Marvel, even more if Magik's enhanche them using her magic in Limbo.

If she brings them to Limbo, she'll beat them easily, but she could just send them to another strange dimension and my team would win by BFR.

As for IceMan, he is going to be protected by Sue shields at the start of the battle, and anyway as I shown before he could just separate his conscience from his body preventing a BFR, or move his mind into Apollo's water molecules to kill him.

Superboy's powers are psionic, Sue can stop psionic powers using her shields(she's stopped Jean Grey telekinesis and Sersi matter manipulation so she could stop him, too).

So, Sue is going to put a shield around my team while Bobby flashfreezes them or Illyana BFRs them somewhere else, from Limbo to another dimension.

#14 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha:

I don't think you get what I mean. It does not matter how fast Invisible Woman is. Heck she can be as fast as Flash for all, and it still wouldn't matter if she put up the shield in time. Apollo or Wonder Man would destroy her shield. Yes it has tanked hits from Celestials, but it has fallen from far less. Maybe they won't take her shield out in one hit, but 2-3 will do the trick. Sue has that one feat where she shows she can shield against that level. Also I highly doubt the Celestials were trying. Seeing as how they have taken out Odin with all the souls of Asgard, Destroyer Amour, and Odin Sword out. Also Sue's durability is fairly bad. No exaggeration, but a morals off hit from any one on my team will one-shot her. Her shields won't defend her forever, and she does not have the power to stay long in this fight. If she tries to do that bubble thing in someones brain, Superboy can stop her from doing so. I don't even think it will work on people this strong either. Also a nuclear bomb wouldn't be enough to kill Thor, Hulk, or Hercules, but that's besides the point.

Wonder Man has lifted whole bases before.

While Apollo has broke through Captain Atoms armored body with heat vision

Interesting. Thanks for explaining Magik more. Even though she is powerful in her realm, there is nothing you have showed so far that will prove my team couldn't beat her there. She negated Spider Woman's abilities, but has she done it to people as powerful as my team? Also it didn't say she was as powerful as Cyttorak. It says "Do you remember Cyttoraks words?" "A HellLord is master in there domain." No where does it say she is as powerful as Cyttorak, because that means other HellLords like Hela & Pluto would be as powerful as Cyttorak & Magik. As far as I see it Cyttorak is above all of them by far. While Magik is arguably the weakest HellLord. Not saying she is weak just that she is not as powerful as the rest, because they do not share the same power level. I never knew Magik was this powerful at all, lol. I don't think I would have gone with this team, lol. Iceman can change all he wants, but before he can change he will already be in space. It is true Sue can block them, but will she be able to block them, and block punches from Apollo too?

This debate is going in circles, so lets just end it with votes now.

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#15 Posted by chiq (1933 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath: Just wanted to say in the said scan, she didn't negate Spider Woman's powers in the scan. She negated the powers of that whole army of dire wraiths. She's also negated the powers of enchantress, Demon Colossus and beat Legion as well

#16 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Damn

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#17 Edited by oceanmaster21 (7815 posts) - - Show Bio

i was voting for thundergodswrath but as im doing some reread veitha put one heck of a battle up as well honestyl i have to say there at a tie its a drawl in my opinion

#18 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

LET THE VOTING COMMENCE.

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#19 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

LET THE VOTING COMMENCE.

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#20 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#22 Edited by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#23 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Great debate. My vote goes to @thundergodswrath his last couple of posts sold it for me.

#24 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7815 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Just wanted to say in the said scan, she didn't negate Spider Woman's powers in the scan. She negated the powers of that whole army of dire wraiths. She's also negated the powers of enchantress, Demon Colossus and beat Legion as well

can u tell me which iussue that was in bc i wud like to read it sounds interesting.

#26 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7815 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: can u tell me which issues these were in i wud like to read them they look interesting

#27 Edited by chiq (1933 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Just wanted to say in the said scan, she didn't negate Spider Woman's powers in the scan. She negated the powers of that whole army of dire wraiths. She's also negated the powers of enchantress, Demon Colossus and beat Legion as well

can u tell me which iussue that was in bc i wud like to read it sounds interesting.

I'll have to get back on you with the issue numbers. Here are the scans.

vs Legion

vs Demon Colossus

depowering Amora

getting inside Legion's head and killing his different personalities

and she is now facing off vs Dormammu. She did well the first match and sent him running, but I'm pretty sure Dormy has some tricks up his sleeves the next couple of issues. He is freaking Dormammu...

#28 Edited by laflux (15062 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked this battle. I had no idea Jean was well versed on Apollo but I would like to see some more feats concerning him, especially concerning his use of Doors, which was not disallowed given the OP. I personally would have used them but to each there own.

As for the battle at hand, I will go for Veitha. I felt Sue was argued very well by him/her, and that was the sway for me. Good debate, as well as being nice and short, so it didn't take too long to read :)

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#29 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7815 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Thanks n yea when u find the number let me know i really like the scans of her vs legion n.demon colosus her vs domra looks bad ass as well thanks

#30 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: can u tell me which issues these were in i wud like to read them they look interesting

well, I don't have the english comic lol but I've got it in my language, so it's going to need a bit to find out which issues they are from. Anyway, the first one is from a Fear Itself tie-in, while the one with Magik and Colossus is from the last issue of Uncanny X-Men by Gillen. Give me a bit and I'll find out the issues.

#31 Posted by dondave (36007 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: thank you :)

I didn't know this was still going on lol

ThunderGodsWrath 1 - Veitha 1

#33 Posted by dondave (36007 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Posted by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: oh thank you, I hadn't seen that!

@laflux: thanks for voting.

ThunderGodsWrath 1 - Veitha 2

#35 Posted by cfrehse (1004 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

2 all.

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#37 Edited by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll come back to this.

#39 Posted by New_World_Order (12939 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#40 Edited by Veitha (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump!