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#1 Edited by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor (Sebast_Allen):

VS:

Goku (Pope052):

Battlefield - Mount Everest:

  • Planet is indestructible, so planet-busting attacks are safe to use.
  • Mount Everest is only the starting point, the fight may continue to anywhere on the Earth.
  • Only Goku & Thor are present on the Earth.

Rules:

Thor:

  • Any feats are permitted except feats from unfair versions of Thor (Odin-Force, Rune King, etc).
  • Fighting at his best.
  • In Character, but Blood-Lusted (Goku killed the Avengers, and destroyed Asgard).
  • No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
  • Win by Death, or KO only.

Goku:

  • End of Z Goku, Feats from Manga & Anime are permitted, but if they contradict each other the Manga of course will come first.
  • All SSJ Transformations permitted, except SSJG & SSJ4.
  • Fighting at his best.
  • In Character, but Blood-Lusted (Thor killed all the Z Fighters, and destroyed the Dragon-Balls permanently).
  • No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
  • Win by Death, or KO only.

Challenge a Viner Rules:

  • Votes are only counted with reason, must be unbiased, and based on the debating quality and not necessarily the character who would win in a fight.
  • Do not post irrelevant content (Music, Videos, Scans, etc).
  • Do not interfere in the debate. It is solely between us two. If you must correct us on a point or ask either of us a question, do so in a P.M.
  • As always, may the best man win.

#2 Posted by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice, now i have to start, don't i?

#4 Posted by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, First i'm going to tell you a few things about thor :

Strength - Thor possesses Strength that is easily comparable to the likes of superman and thor. Some feats of strength thor has shown

  • Resisting the force of a neutron star
  • Lifting the midgard serpent
  • Arm wrestling hercules to a stlemate, it was such a showing of power that it knocked the earth out of orbit
  • Matched the savage hulk in a physical bout for a whole hour while hulk became stronger and madder every passing moment

Striking - Thor is notorious for his powerful strikes, here are a few instances of thor's striking feats:

  • Thor hit a celestial so hard that even though it absorbed most of the impact, the planet they were on became badly damaged
  • Thor accidently one shotted namor in the rain with his fists
  • Thor one shotted the abomination with his fist
  • Struck beta ray bill so hard that the planet they were on was destroyed
  • Struck gorr so hard that even though they were in space, planets were being destroyed by the shockwaves

Durability - Thor is very durable and is known as the "tank" of the avengers along with hulk:

  • Withstood the crushing force of a neutron star
  • Withstood the force of weight scores of planets
  • An unaware thor took no damage from an all out punch from wonderman
  • Thor has fought more thab one enemy in the center of suns and has consistently taken no damage from it
  • Thor tanked a supernova and remained concious and relatively fine
  • Thor withstood the power of 4 mjolnir level weapons clashing resulting in an explosion which released their energies and remained concious
  • Thor withstood the planet busting attack of Thanosi, a clone who's power was equal to thanos' and was fine

Speed/Reaction - Thor is often thought of as the slow tank, but that is untrue, thor is actually very formidable speed wise:

  • Thor has percieved and caught hermes speeding on two occasions
  • Thor was able to save someones life on one and one fiths second
  • Thor's able to swat away a torrent of flying bricks that used to be half a building, not allowing any of them to pass through in the space of milliseconds
  • in the space of micro-seconds before a zooming cursed Mjolnir will strike Thor from behind, Thor lays a haymaker onto an Enchanter and spins around in time to snatch Mjolnir in mid-air
  • Thor swatted away blaastar's attack the nanosecond it was shot
  • A groggy thor with his arms to his sides was able to deflect telepathic assult from phoenix racheal grey summers with his hammer, and telepathic attacks are instantaneous, as fast as thought itself, which is faster than the speed of light, amped by the phoenixc, the embodiment of telepathy makes for a FTL attack for sure, need proof thought is fatser? Proof.
  • I wont give mjolnir's clocked speeds, because we all know that is is millions of times faster than light

For now thats it, i want to drag this on as much as possible :)

#6 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (18816 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. Those pics look awesome. All the best.

#7 Edited by Bossmonster (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

  • Struck beta ray bill so hard that the planet they were on was destroyed
  • Struck gorr so hard that even though they were in space, planets were being destroyed by the shockwaves

What in the hell??

Do you have scan's of this?

#10 Posted by Wolverine08 (43681 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor vs Goku? *Brings out bag of popcorn*

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

#13 Posted by MonsterStomp (19272 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a Challenge a Viner battle. Unless you were the one challenged or you were the one who challenged someone, we can do nothing but spectate and vote at the end.

#15 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (18816 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a Challenge a Viner battle. Unless you were the one challenged or you were the one who challenged someone, we can do nothing but spectate and vote at the end.

yep. Keep your scans in your pockets. Pope has had enough of his CAVs ruined like this. (And this will be my last post before voting.)

All the best again, both of you, don't let either side down. Or I will find you, and teach you proper debating.

#17 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen said:

  • Struck beta ray bill so hard that the planet they were on was destroyed
  • Struck gorr so hard that even though they were in space, planets were being destroyed by the shockwaves

What in the hell??

Do you have scan's of this?

beta

Gorr

#18 Posted by Iragexcudder (5123 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, First i'm going to tell you a few things about thor :

Strength - Thor possesses Strength that is easily comparable to the likes of superman and thor. Some feats of strength thor has shown

hmm. You should provide some scans in future CaV

#19 Posted by PowerWoman (3413 posts) - - Show Bio

I still dont belive is shockwaves destroy planet,because in the scan there never happen a powerful,huge shockwaves in space,gorr and thor just hit each other

But,It's ok,I'm leave

#20 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

@iragexcudder said:

@sebast_allen said:

Ok, First i'm going to tell you a few things about thor :

Strength - Thor possesses Strength that is easily comparable to the likes of superman and thor. Some feats of strength thor has shown

hmm. You should provide some scans in future CaV

lol i will

Please no more comments about the characters etc until after the battle, as it will be considered as outside help, therefore, the debator who gets support during the battle loses by default

#21 Posted by Iragexcudder (5123 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Edited by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen:

Sorry for taking my time, i'm a little busy at the moment. I should have my reply up either later, or perhaps tomorrow but i'll get it in as quick as I can.

#24 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@sebast_allen:

Sorry for taking my time, i'm a little busy at the moment. I should have my reply up either later, or perhaps tomorrow but i'll get it in as quick as I can.

It's cool bro, no problem :), just more time to prepare for your onslaught of knowledge

#25 Edited by those_eyes (7543 posts) - - Show Bio

Wont this get locked?

#26 Posted by Marshall_Long (2149 posts) - - Show Bio

Best of luck to both.

Online
#27 Posted by Iragexcudder (5123 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Edited by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen:

Your post was great, and I assume you'll provide the scans of what you've stated. Anyway, i've readied my post and i'm good to go. But before I begin, I just want to make a few things clear:

  • In this first post, i'll only be providing descriptions of Goku's techniques and side abilities. I'll be focusing on his raw powers (Strength, Speed, Durability, Etc) and more impressive feats as the debate goes on, similarly to what you're doing.
  • Power-Scaling may be used. This is generally looked downed upon, however it does work well with DBZ because all of the character's powers and abilities are more or less the same (they all revolve around power, hence "power-scaling") A character with higher power should be able to replicate all of what a character with a lesser power can do, but evidently to a much higher extent. This is because in DBZ if you have higher power than your opponent, you exceed them in everything (bar skill & intelligence). The only exceptions being unique abilities such as Buu's Candy Beam, or Absorbing Ability. Therefore this is reasonable.

  • Power Levels will be used, but only from the Frieza Saga and below, anything above is unreliable. I'll be getting "my" power levels from this:

So now that those things are clarified...

Let's begin!

Goku:

First, let me give you a rundown of Goku himself:

Cheerful, courageous and also quite naive, Goku is a Saiyan originally sent to Earth as an infant with the mission to destroy it. However, an accident alters his memory, causing him to grow up pure-hearted and later become Earth's greatest defender, as well as the informal leader of the Z Fighters. Throughout his life, he trains hard and strives to be the greatest warrior possible, while at the same time using his amazing strength and skills to uphold peace.

Like I said, i'll focus on Goku's primary abilities as the debate goes on. For now, here is a list of Goku's techniques and side-abilities, and after that i'll provide descriptions of what is listed:

Abilities:

  • Energy Attacks (Kamehameha, Solar-Flare, Destructo Disk, Rapid-Volley Blasts)
  • Ki Manipulation (Defensive/Offensive Purposes, etc)
  • Kaioken (Up to X20)
  • After-Images
  • Telepathy
  • Instant-Transmission
  • Ki Sense
  • Super Saiyan Transformations (1-3)

Energy Attacks:

I'll use Goku's most famous attack as an example for this description, the Kamehameha:

Vegeta threatened to destroy the Earth with his Galick Gun, which forced Goku to retaliate with a Kaioken X3 Kamehameha. Goku still couldn't hold it off, but then he went up to Kaioken X4 which defeated the Galick Gun and sent Vegeta flying back into the air:

(Read from right to left)

That proves that it had more than enough power to bust the Earth, considering that it had overpowered a planet-busting energy blast in the first place, if that weren't the case then Goku wouldn't have been able to send it back.

Moving on,

Weaker Dragon-Ball Characters could even destroy the Moon. Take Master Roshi for example, he destroyed the Moon in order to prevent Goku's Oozaru Transformation from killing everyone. He did it by using a single charged Kamehameha:

(Roshi's PL - 180)

Now, Goku's PL in the Saiyan Saga (when he fought Vegeta) was 8,000 w/o using Kaioken. So now, we'll need to divided 8,000 by 180 in order to get how much times stronger Goku is than Master Roshi.

8,000/ 180 = 44.4

Therfore Goku would have been able to destroy 44.4 Moons in the Saiyan Saga. We now need to find out how many Earth(s) he could destroy. If we're not all aware, the Earth is assumed to be over X4 the size of the Moon. All we need to do now, is divide 44.4 by 4..

44.4/ 4 = 11.1 . That's 11.1 Earth(s) that Goku could destroy (w/o Kaioken). Pretty nifty if you ask me, especially considering how early the stage that Goku was at that point.

Ki Manipulation:

Goku could use his Ki to literally explode opponents:

He created a hole in the ground from just using his mind (telekinesis):

He can even stop opponents mid-flight, and control them if he wishes:

Kaioken:

This ability allows Goku to harm beings who are much stronger than him, at the cost of it being a threat to his body (only if used irresponsibly, such as going Kaioken X200).

This is what allowed him to overpower Vegeta's Galick Gun, harm Frieza, and fight Captain Ginyu too. It's a technique that could prove very useful against Thor if Goku was struggling.

After-Images:

This is a technique in which Goku moves so fast he leaves behind After-Images of himself, confusing the opponent into attacking the wrong Goku and therefore giving him the advantage.

This would be very effective against Thor, he would be attacking the wrong Goku a lot of the time giving Goku a number of opportunities to attack:

He can create more than one, here he left 7 whilst training with Korin:

Telepathy:

Although not very useful in this fight, it is just something Goku has to offer. He can communicate with beings across different dimensions if necessary:

Instant-Transmission:

Definitely a crucial factor going for Goku here. This ability allows Goku to move instantly to wherever he desires, that includes travelling through dimensions. He can use this mid-fight effortlessly, he only needs to concentrate when using it to travel to a location:

He used Instant-Transmission to get behind Cell, and blasted off his torso with a Kamehameha before Cell could react to it:

Thor may be powerful, he definitely has more than enough power to do some serious damage to Goku, but one thing I know is that he isn't landing a hit on him anytime soon.

Ki Sense:

Goku can search incoming powerful Ki's coming towards him, therfore avoiding danger before it happens. He can also use it to predict an opponents next attack, search for a specific person among billions of others, and/or being able to see what an opponent is doing without even looking at them.

Goku predicts Trunks' attack before it happens:

He finds Bulma's Ki among the billions of people on the Earth:

And lastly, he can see what Tien is doing without even looking at him:

And last, but certainly not least..

Super Saiyan Transformations:

Transformations:Descriptions:
Super Saiyan 1:

X50 Goku's Base Form.

Super Saiyan 2, & 3:

SSJ2 (Right) - X2 Goku's SSJ Form, or X100 Base Form.

SSJ3 (Left) - X4 Goku's SSJ2 Form, X8 Goku's SSJ Form, or X400 Goku's Base Form.

A'ight, that should be more than enough for this post.

Your turn.

#29 Edited by New_World_Order (13289 posts) - - Show Bio

Do Thor good!

#30 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by NeonGameWave (7993 posts) - - Show Bio

I`m really looking forward to this, amazing setup and great battle introductions with two iconic-unimaginably interesting characters!

#32 Posted by Iragexcudder (5123 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome

#33 Posted by Beezlebub (1864 posts) - - Show Bio

I though Goku was banned?

#34 Edited by WarBlade539 (4632 posts) - - Show Bio

This gonna be good

*Grabs popcorn*

#35 Posted by Jokergeist (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

@beezlebub: Listen up bub. The ban doesn't apply to these types o' debates... read Da Rules more carefully please.

☟☟☟

Challenge a Viner threads or the tourney matches CAN include a DBZ character VS a comic book character.. The reason for that is those types of threads are contained between two users and are generally handled much better and in a much more respectable way between said users. It's only the open threads that are generally the problem.

#36 Posted by Cgoodness (5147 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope this CAV earns both these characters more respect

#37 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry for the comment, I'm bookmarking this thread for reading after my finals end :D

#38 Posted by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry for the comment, I'm bookmarking this thread for reading after my finals end :D

All that isn't allowed is posting scans for either characters, pictures, videos or generally just spam that isn't needed. Also, you can correct either of us in a P.M if you wish, but not here.

Other than all of that, regular posting/commenting is fine.

#39 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Wow, just wow, goku is really strong, this is going to be awesome

@pope052 said:

@sebast_allen:

Your post was great, and I assume you'll provide the scans of what you've stated. Anyway, i've readied my post and i'm good to go. But before I begin, I just want to make a few things clear:

JUst ask if your unsure

  • In this first post, i'll only be providing descriptions of Goku's techniques and side abilities. I'll be focusing on his raw powers (Strength, Speed, Durability, Etc) and more impressive feats as the debate goes on, similarly to what you're doing.
  • Power-Scaling will be used. This is generally looked downed upon, however it does work well with DBZ because all of the character's powers and abilities are more or less the same (they all revolve around power, hence "power-scaling") A character with higher power should be able to replicate all of what a character with a lesser power can do, but evidently to a much higher extent. This is because in DBZ if you have higher power than your opponent, you exceed them in everything (bar skill & intelligence). The only exceptions being unique abilities such as Buu's Candy Beam, or Absorbing Ability. Therefore this is reasonable.

Cool

  • Power Levels will be used, but only from the Frieza Saga and below, anything above is unreliable. I'll be getting "my" power levels from this:

So now that those things are clarified...

Let's begin!

Goku:

First, let me give you a rundown of Goku himself:

Cheerful, courageous and also quite naive, Goku is a Saiyan originally sent to Earth as an infant with the mission to destroy it. However, an accident alters his memory, causing him to grow up pure-hearted and later become Earth's greatest defender, as well as the informal leader of the Z Fighters. Throughout his life, he trains hard and strives to be the greatest warrior possible, while at the same time using his amazing strength and skills to uphold peace.

Like I said, i'll focus on Goku's primary abilities as the debate goes on. For now, here is a list of Goku's techniques and side-abilities, and after that i'll provide descriptions of what is listed:

Abilities:

  • Energy Attacks (Kamehameha, Solar-Flare, Destructo Disk, Rapid-Volley Blasts)
  • Ki Manipulation (Defensive/Offensive Purposes, etc)
  • Kaioken (Up to X20)
  • After-Images
  • Telepathy
  • Instant-Transmission
  • Ki Sense
  • Super Saiyan Transformations (1-3)

Energy Attacks:

I'll use Goku's most famous attack as an example for this description, the Kamehameha:

Vegeta threatened to destroy the Earth with his Galick Gun, which forced Goku to retaliate with a Kaioken X3 Kamehameha. Goku still couldn't hold it off, but then he went up to Kaioken X4 which defeated the Galick Gun and sent Vegeta flying back into the air:

(Read from left to right)

That proves that it had more than enough power to bust the Earth, considering that it had overpowered a planet-busting energy blast in the first place, if that weren't the case then Goku wouldn't have been able to send it back.

Moving on,

Weaker Dragon-Ball Characters could even destroy the Moon. Take Master Roshi for example, he destroyed the Moon in order to prevent Goku's Oozaru Transformation from killing everyone. He did it by using a single charged Kamehameha:

(Roshi's PL - 180)

Now, Goku's PL in the Saiyan Saga (when he fought Vegeta) was 8,000 w/o using Kaioken. So now, we'll need to divided 8,000 by 180 in order to get how much times stronger Goku is than Master Roshi.

8,000/ 180 = 44.4

Therfore Goku would have been able to destroy 44.4 Moons in the Saiyan Saga. We now need to find out how many Earth(s) he could destroy. If we're not all aware, the Earth is assumed to be over X4 the size of the Moon. All we need to do now, is divide 44.4 by 4..

44.4/ 4 = 11.1 . That's 11.1 Earth(s) that Goku could destroy (w/o Kaioken). Pretty nifty if you ask me, especially considering how early the stage that Goku was at that point.

Ki Manipulation:

Goku could use his Ki to literally explode opponents:

He created a hole in the ground from just using his mind (telekinesis):

He can even stop opponents mid-flight, and control them if he wishes:

Kaioken:

This ability allows Goku to harm beings who are much stronger than him, at the cost of it being a threat to his body (only if used irresponsibly, such as going Kaioken X200).

This is what allowed him to overpower Vegeta's Galick Gun, harm Frieza, and fight Captain Ginyu too. It's a technique that could prove very useful against Thor if Goku was struggling.

After-Images:

This is a technique in which Goku moves so fast he leaves behind After-Images of himself, confusing the opponent into attacking the wrong Goku and therefore giving him the advantage.

This would be very effective against Thor, he would be attacking the wrong Goku a lot of the time giving Goku a number of opportunities to attack:

He can create more than one, here he left 7 whilst training with Korin:

Telepathy:

Although not very useful in this fight, it is just something Goku has to offer. He can communicate with beings across different dimensions if necessary:

Instant-Transmission:

Definitely a crucial factor going for Goku here. This ability allows Goku to move instantly to wherever he desires, that includes travelling through dimensions. He can use this mid-fight effortlessly, he only needs to concentrate when using it to travel to a location:

He used Instant-Transmission to get behind Cell, and blasted off his torso with a Kamehameha before Cell could react to it:

Thor may be powerful, he definitely has more than enough power to do some serious damage to Goku, but one thing I know is that he isn't landing a hit on him anytime soon.

Ki Sense:

Goku can search incoming powerful Ki's coming towards him, therfore avoiding danger before it happens. He can also use it to predict an opponents next attack, search for a specific person among billions of others, and/or being able to see what an opponent is doing without even looking at them.

Goku predicts Trunks' attack before it happens:

He finds Bulma's Ki among the billions of people on the Earth:

And lastly, he can see what Tien is doing without even looking at him:

And last, but certainly not least..

Super Saiyan Transformations:

Transformations:Descriptions:
Super Saiyan 1:

X50 Goku's Base Form.

Super Saiyan 2, & 3:

SSJ2 (Right) - X2 Goku's SSJ Form, or X100 Base Form.

SSJ3 (Left) - X4 Goku's SSJ2 Form, X8 Goku's SSJ Form, or X400 Goku's Base Form.

A'ight, that should be more than enough for this post.

Your turn.

Ok, thanks, here goes nothing:

Kamehameha - While goku's Kamehameha is very powerful, i am positive mjolnir would be able to either absorb it, block it, redirect it, or swat it away:

Just to show he could absorb it

Or send it back in any way he wants 100 fold

Trap it with goku and let the energy explode

etc, so as far as the Kamehameha goes, i think thor could handle it no matter the amount of strength it has

Ki - Ok, this is one i am unsure about, that blowing up thing, while only shown by vegeta, proves that it can be done, though I am not sure if this is the kind of attack goku would go for, also, mjolnir could be used to negate those effects by either healing thor while goku does it, or just absorbing the ki attacking his insides. And thor is very durable still, compared to the featless qui, who only had feats of power level, i would think thor can take the punishment, and then heal himself of his wounds

I think we both know that thor would over power the telekinesis, i can show you the scans of him resisting the force of planets and neutron stars, and again, i don't think this would effect thor much.

Kaioken - I really don't think this move will come into play, after getting supersaiyan mode, goku has not relied on this move, bloodlusted or not.

After images - Now this will arguably be one of thor's greatest problems in this fight, because this is basically like kage bunshin no jutsu, this will heavily hinder thor, but after realizing that he can't hit goku, i think he would pull one of his bigger attacks (Winds, lightning, aoe godblasts, lorn bolts) and if thos hit goku... it wouldn't be good.

Telepathy - Goku ain't getting into thor's head, and goku has never used it on someone who doesn't want there mind read, not even phoenix emma could get into thor's head

Instant transmission - This WILL be thor's greatest problem in the fight if goku uses it, becuse unlike other teleporting that is just ftl movement, this just puts goku where he wants to be as he teleports, hard to explain, but you probably know already. But like above, if thor realizes that he can't hope to hit a teleporter that leaves after images, he will start using his AOE moves to try and get goku, amd believe me when i say this, thor's attacks have a large Area Of Effect (world wide lightning)

Ki sense - Another great ability, that wont play a role in this fight, i havethe proof that thor does not have ki:

This is what is in thor, not ki

There is no ki in thor, maybe in all humans, but not asgardians, that is what runs through them. Goku will not be able to sense this as it is basically a foreign substance than ki, goku will not know when the attacks will come or what they can do etc

Supersaiyan transformations - While very impressive, they have a limit to how long they can be maintained, and can't thor do this? :

To kang, a energy manipulator

To the presence (not dc's one :p, though still a powerful energy manipulator)

#40 Posted by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen:

Kamehameha - While goku's Kamehameha is very powerful, i am positive mjolnir would be able to either absorb it, block it, redirect it, or swat it away:

Just to show he could absorb it

Or send it back in any way he wants 100 fold

Trap it with goku and let the energy explode

etc, so as far as the Kamehameha goes, i think thor could handle it no matter the amount of strength it has

This could be possible, but has Thor absorbed a blast that is as big as the Kamehameha? I'm not saying he couldn't, but has he show to absorb energy that's coming straight for him? Not to mention, at FTL Speeds:

I've shown Master Roshi busting the Moon already, but take note how fast his beam travels and destroys the Moon. The process takes no longer than one second. For it to reach the Moon and destroy it instantly that fast, the beam would have had to be going FTL or at least Light-Speed.

Here's another example, Piccolo busted the Moon with a single uncharged blast:

His blast reached, and destroyed the Moon on the same page.

I doubt Thor could absorb an energy wave that is coming at him FTL, but you could prove me wrong. Also to make matters worse for Thor, Goku can change the direction of the Kamehameha at will:

Even Krillin could do this with ease:

Goku doesn't even need to do this to hit Thor either, he could simply use Instant-Transmission to appear behind Thor and then blast him before he could react to it. He did this on Cell, and Cell is faster & has much faster reaction speed than Thor does.

Therfore, Goku is going to hit Thor with the Kamehameha. I know Thor has resisted the force of a Neutron Star and what not, but was that at point-blank range? A small, uncharged Kamehameha from Goku would have enough force to destroy a planet X10 bigger than Earth, or just simply X10 Earth(s), and he'd be hitting Thor with that before he could react to it & at point-blank range too.

Ki - Ok, this is one i am unsure about, that blowing up thing, while only shown by vegeta, proves that it can be done, though I am not sure if this is the kind of attack goku would go for, also, mjolnir could be used to negate those effects by either healing thor while goku does it, or just absorbing the ki attacking his insides. And thor is very durable still, compared to the featless qui, who only had feats of power level, i would think thor can take the punishment, and then heal himself of his wounds

Considering Goku is blood-lusted, he'd do anything at his disposal to kill Thor so he would more than likely go for an attack such as this. How would Mjolnir negate the effects of Goku manipulating Thor? It wouldn't make sense for the Ki to be absorbed either, considering there is nothing notable to actually absorb, has Thor ever absorbed anything but raw energy before?

I'm not saying this would kill Thor, but Goku could at least cause him pain using this. Cui is featless, but his power is higher than Saiyan Saga Vegeta's (18,000). This means that Cui possesses planetary level durability+ (like I clarified, if your power is higher than your opponent's, you exceed them in everything). Vegeta could effortlessly use his Ki to explode him, so it would have contained planetary level force.

I think we both know that thor would over power the telekinesis, i can show you the scans of him resisting the force of planets and neutron stars, and again, i don't think this would effect thor much.

I agree, Thor could overpower it and it certainly won't allow Goku to beat Thor either. I'm just saying, it will cause Thor problems and at least marginally some pain.

Kaioken - I really don't think this move will come into play, after getting supersaiyan mode, goku has not relied on this move, bloodlusted or not.

Goku wouldn't need to go SSJ directly from the start. He could use Kaioken to see if it allows him to hurt Thor, if not then he goes SSJ. It's more of a testing power in this battle.

After images - Now this will arguably be one of thor's greatest problems in this fight, because this is basically like kage bunshin no jutsu, this will heavily hinder thor, but after realizing that he can't hit goku, i think he would pull one of his bigger attacks (Winds, lightning, aoe godblasts, lorn bolts) and if thos hit goku... it wouldn't be good.

Before he could pull off a more effective attack, Goku would sense the power behind the attack and therefore avoid it. Like he avoided Nappa's city-wide attack:

As for Thor's lighting, Goku was surpassing the speed of lightning as only a Kid:

I think it's safe to assume that Goku has enough speed, and reaction speed to counter Thor's attacks. He could predict Thor's next attack before it even occurs, and therefore if Goku thinks it's strong enough he avoids it.

Telepathy - Goku ain't getting into thor's head, and goku has never used it on someone who doesn't want there mind read, not even phoenix emma could get into thor's head

Fair enough, but like I said it isn't much of an option for Goku here. It's just something he brings to the table.

Instant transmission - This WILL be thor's greatest problem in the fight if goku uses it, becuse unlike other teleporting that is just ftl movement, this just puts goku where he wants to be as he teleports, hard to explain, but you probably know already. But like above, if thor realizes that he can't hope to hit a teleporter that leaves after images, he will start using his AOE moves to try and get goku, amd believe me when i say this, thor's attacks have a large Area Of Effect (world wide lightning)

It isn't just FTL Movement, it is instant. There's nothing faster. If Goku assumed Thor's attack to be strong enough to cause him serious damage, he would avoid the attacks. His speed alone is more than enough to accomplish this, Instant Transmission just widens the gap.

Ki sense - Another great ability, that wont play a role in this fight, i havethe proof that thor does not have ki:

This is what is in thor, not ki

There is no ki in thor, maybe in all humans, but not asgardians, that is what runs through them. Goku will not be able to sense this as it is basically a foreign substance than ki, goku will not know when the attacks will come or what they can do etc

Ki is life-force, anything and everything that is living possesses it. Thor is alive, Odin is alive, every living Asgardian is alive. That means that Goku could sense their Ki. The Odin-Force may the main energy that flows through Asgardians, but Ki is withing them all as they are alive.

If Thor could somehow block Goku from sensing it then it's a different story, but since Thor is alive Goku will be able to sense him.

Supersaiyan transformations - While very impressive, they have a limit to how long they can be maintained, and can't thor do this? :

To kang, a energy manipulator

To the presence (not dc's one :p, though still a powerful energy manipulator)

No they don't, only SSJ3 has a limit. SSJ & SSJ2 can be maintained for as long as Goku wants. He did after all, stay days in Super Saiyan Form:

As for if Thor can drain the Ki from Goku or not, it's arguable. Ki is life-force, so it's a question of whether or not Thor can literally drain the life-force energy from someone. If he could Goku wouldn't dare stay near him if this happened. He could use Instant Transmission to exit from the draining process, if he couldn't then Goku could burst out of it:

Your move.

#41 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@sebast_allen:

Kamehameha - While goku's Kamehameha is very powerful, i am positive mjolnir would be able to either absorb it, block it, redirect it, or swat it away:

Just to show he could absorb it

Or send it back in any way he wants 100 fold

Trap it with goku and let the energy explode

etc, so as far as the Kamehameha goes, i think thor could handle it no matter the amount of strength it has

This could be possible, but has Thor absorbed a blast that is as big as the Kamehameha? I'm not saying he couldn't, but has he show to absorb energy that's coming straight for him? Not to mention, at FTL Speeds:

Thor reacts to thought while groggy

Hits blastaars ftl blast like a joke

If you want, i could post him hitting ftl blasts more recently

I've shown Master Roshi busting the Moon already, but take note how fast his beam travels and destroys the Moon. The process takes no longer than one second. For it to reach the Moon and destroy it instantly that fast, the beam would have had to be going FTL or at least Light-Speed.

Here's another example, Piccolo busted the Moon with a single uncharged blast:

His blast reached, and destroyed the Moon on the same page.

I doubt Thor could absorb an energy wave that is coming at him FTL, but you could prove me wrong. Also to make matters worse for Thor, Goku can change the direction of the Kamehameha at will:

I'm positive that thor would react to it

Even Krillin could do this with ease:

Goku doesn't even need to do this to hit Thor either, he could simply use Instant-Transmission to appear behind Thor and then blast him before he could react to it. He did this on Cell, and Cell is faster & has much faster reaction speed than Thor does.

Yeah, that will hit thor, but after the first one, thor will have mjolnir absorb any energy around him if goku vanishes

Therfore, Goku is going to hit Thor with the Kamehameha. I know Thor has resisted the force of a Neutron Star and what not, but was that at point-blank range? A small, uncharged Kamehameha from Goku would have enough force to destroy a planet X10 bigger than Earth, or just simply X10 Earth(s), and he'd be hitting Thor with that before he could react to it & at point-blank range too.

Neutron star

Ki - Ok, this is one i am unsure about, that blowing up thing, while only shown by vegeta, proves that it can be done, though I am not sure if this is the kind of attack goku would go for, also, mjolnir could be used to negate those effects by either healing thor while goku does it, or just absorbing the ki attacking his insides. And thor is very durable still, compared to the featless qui, who only had feats of power level, i would think thor can take the punishment, and then heal himself of his wounds

Considering Goku is blood-lusted, he'd do anything at his disposal to kill Thor so he would more than likely go for an attack such as this. How would Mjolnir negate the effects of Goku manipulating Thor? It wouldn't make sense for the Ki to be absorbed either, considering there is nothing notable to actually absorb, has Thor ever absorbed anything but raw energy before?

Yes, mjolnir can absorb ANY type of energy

I'm not saying this would kill Thor, but Goku could at least cause him pain using this. Cui is featless, but his power is higher than Saiyan Saga Vegeta's (18,000). This means that Cui possesses planetary level durability+ (like I clarified, if your power is higher than your opponent's, you exceed them in everything). Vegeta could effortlessly use his Ki to explode him, so it would have contained planetary level force.

Yeah, but not kill

I think we both know that thor would over power the telekinesis, i can show you the scans of him resisting the force of planets and neutron stars, and again, i don't think this would effect thor much.

I agree, Thor could overpower it and it certainly won't allow Goku to beat Thor either. I'm just saying, it will cause Thor problems and at least marginally some pain.

Kaioken - I really don't think this move will come into play, after getting supersaiyan mode, goku has not relied on this move, bloodlusted or not.

Goku wouldn't need to go SSJ directly from the start. He could use Kaioken to see if it allows him to hurt Thor, if not then he goes SSJ. It's more of a testing power in this battle.

I still see thor absorbing kaioken energy

After images - Now this will arguably be one of thor's greatest problems in this fight, because this is basically like kage bunshin no jutsu, this will heavily hinder thor, but after realizing that he can't hit goku, i think he would pull one of his bigger attacks (Winds, lightning, aoe godblasts, lorn bolts) and if thos hit goku... it wouldn't be good.

Before he could pull off a more effective attack, Goku would sense the power behind the attack and therefore avoid it. Like he avoided Nappa's city-wide attack:

Has goku ever dodged a earth wide attack?

As for Thor's lighting, Goku was surpassing the speed of lightning as only a Kid:

I think it's safe to assume that Goku has enough speed, and reaction speed to counter Thor's attacks. He could predict Thor's next attack before it even occurs, and therefore if Goku thinks it's strong enough he avoids it.

Telepathy - Goku ain't getting into thor's head, and goku has never used it on someone who doesn't want there mind read, not even phoenix emma could get into thor's head

Fair enough, but like I said it isn't much of an option for Goku here. It's just something he brings to the table.

Instant transmission - This WILL be thor's greatest problem in the fight if goku uses it, becuse unlike other teleporting that is just ftl movement, this just puts goku where he wants to be as he teleports, hard to explain, but you probably know already. But like above, if thor realizes that he can't hope to hit a teleporter that leaves after images, he will start using his AOE moves to try and get goku, amd believe me when i say this, thor's attacks have a large Area Of Effect (world wide lightning)

It isn't just FTL Movement, it is instant. There's nothing faster. If Goku assumed Thor's attack to be strong enough to cause him serious damage, he would avoid the attacks. His speed alone is more than enough to accomplish this, Instant Transmission just widens the gap.

Basically what i was saying, truly instant, like two goku's are made, one where he is, one where he wants to go, then the old one just vanishes. Will address the sense below

Ki sense - Another great ability, that wont play a role in this fight, i havethe proof that thor does not have ki:

This is what is in thor, not ki

There is no ki in thor, maybe in all humans, but not asgardians, that is what runs through them. Goku will not be able to sense this as it is basically a foreign substance than ki, goku will not know when the attacks will come or what they can do etc

Ki is life-force, anything and everything that is living possesses it. Thor is alive, Odin is alive, every living Asgardian is alive. That means that Goku could sense their Ki. The Odin-Force may the main energy that flows through Asgardians, but Ki is withing them all as they are alive.

No, that is thor's life force, anything else would be the essence he got from gaea, it has been proven that that is what is in asgardians, that gives them life, not ki, or chakra etc, and thor is an even purer breed of god than asgardians, he has odinfoce and gaea in his blood.

If Thor could somehow block Goku from sensing it then it's a different story, but since Thor is alive Goku will be able to sense him.

I'm not sure if thor could, though i know he can use mjolnir to sense others, that way he could keep an eye on the real goku if he does after image and if he does instant transmission

Supersaiyan transformations - While very impressive, they have a limit to how long they can be maintained, and can't thor do this? :

To kang, a energy manipulator

To the presence (not dc's one :p, though still a powerful energy manipulator)

No they don't, only SSJ3 has a limit. SSJ & SSJ2 can be maintained for as long as Goku wants. He did after all, stay days in Super Saiyan Form:

As for if Thor can drain the Ki from Goku or not, it's arguable. Ki is life-force, so it's a question of whether or not Thor can literally drain the life-force energy from someone. If he could Goku wouldn't dare stay near him if this happened. He could use Instant Transmission to exit from the draining process, if he couldn't then Goku could burst out of it:

Second scan of energy absorbing, is him taking the presences lifeforce, i could also show you him doing it to a god if you want, and mjolnir drains fast, he could suck goku dry in an instant, it absorbed something capable of producing the energy to destroy a galaxy in a second (null bomb)

Your move.

#42 Edited by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen:

Thor reacts to thought while groggy

Hits blastaars ftl blast like a joke

Neither of those scans even hinted that those blasts were FTL.

If you want, i could post him hitting ftl blasts more recently

If you would, yes. I need an idea of how Thor is supposed to react to a Kamehameha shot at FTL, especially considering the power put behind it i'll also need something suggesting that Thor can handle absorbing that much energy at once.

I'm positive that thor would react to it

Well, i'll need something that backs up that claim in order to consider it.

Yeah, that will hit thor, but after the first one, thor will have mYes, mjolnir can absorb ANY type of energyjolnir absorb any energy around him if goku vanishes

That's assuming of course that Thor could take a Kamehameha before he could react to it and still be conscious. About the Neutron Star feat, how far was Thor away from it? I doubt he was blasted head on, of course i'm just assuming this but i'll need you to prove otherwise.

Goku is going to hit Thor with more force than X10 Earth-Sized Planet-Busters in that instant (this is without charging), which Thor won't be able to react to quick enough to tank.

Yes, mjolnir can absorb ANY type of energy

I'll need proof of that.

Yeah, but not kill

That's why I said "I'm not saying this would kill Thor". It will hurt him, which is something to consider. Especially since it's merely a technique Goku can use, and not even a nanogram compared to his full power.

I still see thor absorbing kaioken energy

If Goku goes Kaioken, he'll go straight for a blitz to attack Thor. He will be fast enough to blitz and then whale on Thor until the Kaioken wears off. I don't see how Thor will absorb something whilst getting pounded with bursts of attacks.

Has goku ever dodged a earth wide attack?

No, but with Instant Transmission he certainly could. Even if he couldn't, he has tanked Earth-Busting attacks nonetheless. Still, i'll need proof of Thor's Earth-Wide attack.

Basically what i was saying, truly instant, like two goku's are made, one where he is, one where he wants to go, then the old one just vanishes. Will address the sense below

Ah, apologies I misinterpreted what you said in that previous statement.

No, that is thor's life force, anything else would be the essence he got from gaea, it has been proven that that is what is in asgardians, that gives them life, not ki, or chakra etc, and thor is an even purer breed of god than asgardians, he has odinfoce and gaea in his blood.

Yes, but Ki is life-force. It doesn't matter if his body mainly runs off of Odin-Force/Gaea, he still has Ki as he is a living being, just like everyone and everything that is alive.

Nevertheless, this argument is not necessary. Both will be directly facing each other, so Goku won't need to sense him.

I'm not sure if thor could, though i know he can use mjolnir to sense others, that way he could keep an eye on the real goku if he does after image and if he does instant transmission

Eh, not at all. Kami has the eyes of a God, and sees everything as it happens. Yet he still couldn't see Goku & Piccolo fight, they were moving too fast they were literally invisible:

As for Mjolnir being able to detect Goku, no way is it sensing Instant Transmission. I'll need an instance where Thor could sense someone/thing that could move invisibly before I can consider it.

Second scan of energy absorbing, is him taking the presences lifeforce, i could also show you him doing it to a god if you want, and mjolnir drains fast, he could suck goku dry in an instant, it absorbed something capable of producing the energy to destroy a galaxy in a second (null bomb)

Show me the scan of him absorbing the null bomb in a second. Goku has reaction speed that Thor can't hope to contend with.

Anyway, these "Thor will absorb Goku" arguments are getting tedious. How about you move onto an argument where you know, to see how Thor will actually do in a fight with Goku.

In my next post, i'll be getting onto my real argument. For now though, it's your move.

#43 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@sebast_allen:

If you want, i could post him hitting ftl blasts more recently

If you would, yes. I need an idea of how Thor is supposed to react to a Kamehameha shot at FTL, especially considering the power put behind it i'll also need something suggesting that Thor can handle absorbing that much energy at once.

Left to right against sufer

I'm positive that thor would react to it

Well, i'll need something that backs up that claim in order to consider it.

I think i have proved thor can react to these kinds of attacks, he consistently bats away ftl beams on a regular basis

Thor's able to swat away a torrent of flying bricks that used to be half a building, not allowing any of them to pass through in the space of milliseconds

A groggy thor with his arms to his sides was able to deflect telepathic assult from phoenix racheal grey summers with his hammer, and telepathic attacks are instantaneous, as fast as thought itself, which is faster than the speed of light, amped by the phoenixc, the embodiment of telepathy makes for a FTL attack for sure, need proof thought is fatser?

Proof

While not known, loki was a speedster who could travel as faster than thought, but thor was able to hit him

Yeah, that will hit thor, but after the first one, thor will have mYes, mjolnir can absorb ANY type of energyjolnir absorb any energy around him if goku vanishes

That's assuming of course that Thor could take a Kamehameha before he could react to it and still be conscious. About the Neutron Star feat, how far was Thor away from it? I doubt he was blasted head on, of course i'm just assuming this but i'll need you to prove otherwise.

Neutron star feat

Goku is going to hit Thor with more force than X10 Earth-Sized Planet-Busters in that instant (this is without charging), which Thor won't be able to react to quick enough to tank.

force of multiple of planets

(there is a scan of him taking the force of 20 somewhere, though i can't find it)

Yes, mjolnir can absorb ANY type of energy

I'll need proof of that.

I have basically given you all the proof i need, nothing thor has tried to absorb from has ever failed, and i know it's a fallacy, but really, no has has ever resisted it no matter their strength, only those above odin could resist it, because odin laid those enchantments.

Yeah, but not kill

That's why I said "I'm not saying this would kill Thor". It will hurt him, which is something to consider. Especially since it's merely a technique Goku can use, and not even a nanogram compared to his full power.

True, though thor could heal himself via mjolnir

I still see thor absorbing kaioken energy

If Goku goes Kaioken, he'll go straight for a blitz to attack Thor. He will be fast enough to blitz and then whale on Thor until the Kaioken wears off. I don't see how Thor will absorb something whilst getting pounded with bursts of attacks.

Omni-directional attacks

Strong enough to kill durok

Has goku ever dodged a earth wide attack?

No, but with Instant Transmission he certainly could. Even if he couldn't, he has tanked Earth-Busting attacks nonetheless. Still, i'll need proof of Thor's Earth-Wide attack.

Thor casually did this, and he wasn't even bloodlusted

Basically what i was saying, truly instant, like two goku's are made, one where he is, one where he wants to go, then the old one just vanishes. Will address the sense below

Ah, apologies I misinterpreted what you said in that previous statement.

it's cool bro

No, that is thor's life force, anything else would be the essence he got from gaea, it has been proven that that is what is in asgardians, that gives them life, not ki, or chakra etc, and thor is an even purer breed of god than asgardians, he has odinfoce and gaea in his blood.

Yes, but Ki is life-force. It doesn't matter if his body mainly runs off of Odin-Force/Gaea, he still has Ki as he is a living being, just like everyone and everything that is alive.

Nevertheless, this argument is not necessary. Both will be directly facing each other, so Goku won't need to sense him.

Yeah

I'm not sure if thor could, though i know he can use mjolnir to sense others, that way he could keep an eye on the real goku if he does after image and if he does instant transmission

Eh, not at all. Kami has the eyes of a God, and sees everything as it happens. Yet he still couldn't see Goku & Piccolo fight, they were moving too fast they were literally invisible:

As for Mjolnir being able to detect Goku, no way is it sensing Instant Transmission. I'll need an instance where Thor could sense someone/thing that could move invisibly before I can consider it.

Everybody sees better than that old fart, because uf that were the case, then people like cell, frieza and buu wouldn't be able to perceive goku at all, thor would see him, though it wouldnt be easy

Second scan of energy absorbing, is him taking the presences lifeforce, i could also show you him doing it to a god if you want, and mjolnir drains fast, he could suck goku dry in an instant, it absorbed something capable of producing the energy to destroy a galaxy in a second (null bomb)

used to sense someone in the void between dimensions

It's really effortless for him to do

sensing used to track someone

Show me the scan of him absorbing the null bomb in a second. Goku has reaction speed that Thor can't hope to contend with.

null bomb

Anyway, these "Thor will absorb Goku" arguments are getting tedious. How about you move onto an argument where you know, to see how Thor will actually do in a fight with Goku.

Ok, just putting it out there

In my next post, i'll be getting onto my real argument. For now though, it's your move.

Me too

#44 Edited by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@sebast_allen:

Left to right against sufer

That may have been light speed, but the size of the blast was small. Not to mention, exactly how much power was put behind the Surfer's beam in that scan? It didn't look like much.

A Kamehameha is larger than Thor's whole body, and a single uncharged one would contain the force of at least X11 Earth-Sized Planet Explosions, and that's nothing compared to Goku's peak Kamehameha.

I think i have proved thor can react to these kinds of attacks, he consistently bats away ftl beams on a regular basis

Not necessarily. Yes, you have proven that Thor can bat away an FTL Blast, but Instant Transmission is infinitely faster than the speed of light. Goku would use it to get behind Thor and blast him point-blank before he could react to it, likely KO'ing him in the process.

Thor's able to swat away a torrent of flying bricks that used to be half a building, not allowing any of them to pass through in the space of milliseconds

Nothing in that scan suggested that it was in a space of milliseconds.

A groggy thor with his arms to his sides was able to deflect telepathic assult from phoenix racheal grey summers with his hammer, and telepathic attacks are instantaneous, as fast as thought itself, which is faster than the speed of light, amped by the phoenixc, the embodiment of telepathy makes for a FTL attack for sure, need proof thought is fatser?

Proof

Impressive, but the speed of thought is no faster than the speed of light according to that article you provided. Thor may be able to deflect FTL blasts, but only on a small-scale (size-wise).

While not known, loki was a speedster who could travel as faster than thought, but thor was able to hit him

Loki didn't look to be moving at all in that scan, he was standing still and Thor just threw Mjolnir at him before Loki could react to it. Thor stated "Not whilst Mystic Mjolnir my hand as swiftly as light itself!", he was referring to how fast Mjolnir could travel and hit Loki, who wasn't even moving in the first place.

Neutron star feat

That wasn't the force of a Neutron Star, it was a gravitational pull that was akin to the Neutron Star.

force of multiple of planets

Thor flat out stated that he was being constricted and crushed by the force of multiple planets, he didn't look to be able to resist anything. He was stuck within that constriction. Goku will be blasting him head on, not restraining him.

I have basically given you all the proof i need, nothing thor has tried to absorb from has ever failed, and i know it's a fallacy, but really, no has has ever resisted it no matter their strength, only those above odin could resist it, because odin laid those enchantments.

Well you said it yourself, that's the no limits fallacy. I'm not saying that Goku would withstand the draining process, but how would he be caught in it in the first place?

True, though thor could heal himself via mjolnir

Whilst being constantly attacked? I doubt he'd be able to heal himself notably enough before Goku would rush into him again with a burst of attacks.

Omni-directional attacks

Those creatures that were attacking Thor looked weak as hell, no wonder he was able to blast them off so easily. Goku will be different, he'll be using Kaioken which allows him to hurt beings tougher than him.

Thor casually did this, and he wasn't even bloodlusted

How exactly did Thor do that, and why? Considering I didn't even see Thor in the scan, I don't know how to counter it as there's no clear way to counter it without more information. I'd appreciate it if you'd provide some.

Everybody sees better than that old fart, because uf that were the case, then people like cell, frieza and buu wouldn't be able to perceive goku at all, thor would see him, though it wouldnt be easy

No, you actually need to prove that Thor could see someone who can move invisibly. Not by going by assumptions that Thor sees better than Kami, you need to prove it.

sensing used to track someone

In that scan Thor needed to keep increasing his height in order to find Loki, he was above the atmosphere before he could do it.

Alright, now that i'm done replying to your post it's time to get the real argument into play here:

Combat Speed:

Even without Instant Transmission, I do believe Goku is on another level of speed when it comes to combat compared to Thor.

Goku vanishes but Piccolo detects him. He smashes Goku into a wall, until Goku then vanished again so fast that was able to appear behind Piccolo before anyone (even Piccolo) could even detect a fraction of his movements:

If Thor tried to hit Goku with Mjolnir, Goku would just phase through it and appear a distance away from Thor:

Here's more instances of Goku phasing through attacks effortlessly:

Phases through a Martial Artist's kick and one-shotted him:

Phases through Recoome's punch, and appears behind Jeice & Burter like he teleported:

Goku was able to take Tien's belt without Tien even feeling or noticing it:

Thor would likely get furious at this rate, and go for a burst of attacks. Goku would be well, effortlessly avoiding every one of them. Just like he did to Nappa:

Traverse Speed:

While this is unnecessary in combat, Goku is still no slouch in travel speed.

He scaled one side of Namek to the other in one second:

Goku was so fast he was able to catch a Dragon-Ball seconds before they spread out across the planet:

Durability:

While Thor is certainly more durable than Goku, that doesn't mean that Goku isn't durable. In fact, Goku could take most of the damage that Thor can dish out. Goku's Speed is how he plays it out, he prefers to dodge instead of tanking attacks.

However if it came down to the point that Thor hits Goku, Goku's Durability is certainly enough to take punishment:

Piccolo hit Goku with a Nuke-Level Energy Blast, Goku still took it head on:

After that, Piccolo unexpectedly shot Goku through the shoulder, breaking his arm:

Goku was still able to dodge a punch, and strike Piccolo in the stomach:

Piccolo then broke both of Goku's legs:

And Goku's second arm:

Piccolo then generated another Energy Blast, firing it at a (seemingly) powerless Goku:

Goku was still able to avoid the blast, fly away and head-but Piccolo so hard that he KO'd Piccolo! :

Goku was able to beat Piccolo under the following conditions:

  • Previously took a Nuke-Level Energy Blast
  • All of his limbs were broken
  • Virutally Ki-Less

Combat Genius:

Goku was able to learn the After-Image technique from just seeing it being done:

He learned the Kamehameha instantly, which took Master Roshi 50+ years to master:

He was even able to learn off all of Piccolo's moves from just fighting with him:

That should do for this post, your move.

#45 Edited by NighThunder (4366 posts) - - Show Bio

This debate has got me wet, tag me when its voting. @pope052, you truly have filled that empty spot in the goku team since TDLP left.

makes a old goku debater proud.

@sebast_allen

being that im a closet thor fanboy, you...you are doing epic.

this is a really great debate.

#46 Posted by Darkbiscuit (689 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me as well @pope052. Interesting debate, I never even realized how fast Goku truly was!

#47 Posted by Iragexcudder (5123 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#48 Edited by Pope052 (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder:

Thanks dude, the compliments mean a lot and i'll definitely tag you as soon as it's done.

@darkbiscuit

No problem, i'll tag both of you and whoever else asks to be tagged as soon as the debate ends.

#49 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry i haven't replied yet guys, i always close my computer but never log off

@pope052 said:

@sebast_allen:

Left to right against sufer

That may have been light speed, but the size of the blast was small. Not to mention, exactly how much power was put behind the Surfer's beam in that scan? It didn't look like much.

That's not the point, the point was to show you that from near point blank, thor could deflect a ftl blast from surfer, and we all know mjolnir can absorb most/any things thor wants it to, bput those together, and you have got thor deflecting or absorbing a Kamehameha (lol that this word is in the dictionary), and you also forget, that thor has his own attacks which can overpower a Kamehameha (lorn bolts etc). Thor can also just spin his hammer to block the Kamehameha, there is a scan of him blocking the destroyers total disintegration beam with mjolnir (and though he was odin force thor, that didn't amp mjolnir)

A Kamehameha is larger than Thor's whole body, and a single uncharged one would contain the force of at least X11 Earth-Sized Planet Explosions, and that's nothing compared to Goku's peak Kamehameha.

Thor tanking the energy of an exploding sun and being dazed for a few seconds

Thor has taken far worse that what goku can dish out, and while a fully charged Kamehameha will greatly injure thor, he has consistently shown that he is highly resistant to most forms of energy attacks

I think i have proved thor can react to these kinds of attacks, he consistently bats away ftl beams on a regular basis

Not necessarily. Yes, you have proven that Thor can bat away an FTL Blast, but Instant Transmission is infinitely faster than the speed of light. Goku would use it to get behind Thor and blast him point-blank before he could react to it, likely KO'ing him in the process.

Yes, goku's instant transmission coupled with a full charged Kamehameha will be devastating to thor, but no, it will not take him out, he has taken far worse attacks (though they are rare)

Basically point blank

Supernova

Thor's able to swat away a torrent of flying bricks that used to be half a building, not allowing any of them to pass through in the space of milliseconds

Nothing in that scan suggested that it was in a space of milliseconds.

But to be able to destroy every brick that was falling towards him from a building, i'm no scientist, but that requires reactions around that speed

A groggy thor with his arms to his sides was able to deflect telepathic assult from phoenix racheal grey summers with his hammer, and telepathic attacks are instantaneous, as fast as thought itself, which is faster than the speed of light, amped by the phoenixc, the embodiment of telepathy makes for a FTL attack for sure, need proof thought is fatser?

Proof

Impressive, but the speed of thought is no faster than the speed of light according to that article you provided. Thor may be able to deflect FTL blasts, but only on a small-scale (size-wise).

The blast was his size, and further down it says that thought can get faster than light, in which case we get deja vu because our brain can't comprehend the speed we just thought at

While not known, loki was a speedster who could travel as faster than thought, but thor was able to hit him

Loki didn't look to be moving at all in that scan, he was standing still and Thor just threw Mjolnir at him before Loki could react to it. Thor stated "Not whilst Mystic Mjolnir my hand as swiftly as light itself!", he was referring to how fast Mjolnir could travel and hit Loki, who wasn't even moving in the first place.

True, just pointing out that thor can tag a speedster, he just needs to increase the speed his hammer goes.

Neutron star feat

That wasn't the force of a Neutron Star, it was a gravitational pull that was akin to the Neutron Star.

It forces him to the ground, and then all of the debris start crushing him with that amount of force, now that is alot of force crushing thor, and yet he was able to resist the gravimetric pull of a neutron star

force of multiple of planets

Thor flat out stated that he was being constricted and crushed by the force of multiple planets, he didn't look to be able to resist anything. He was stuck within that constriction. Goku will be blasting him head on, not restraining him.

They were trying to crush him, which they failed to do, that is what i wanted to show

I have basically given you all the proof i need, nothing thor has tried to absorb from has ever failed, and i know it's a fallacy, but really, no has has ever resisted it no matter their strength, only those above odin could resist it, because odin laid those enchantments.

Well you said it yourself, that's the no limits fallacy. I'm not saying that Goku would withstand the draining process, but how would he be caught in it in the first place?

It's not like he knows thor can absorb him, so if he goes for a head on Kamehameha which he does 99% of the time when he uses the technique, if thor starts absorbing the attack he can also absorb goku's enegy because it is flowing directly from goku

True, though thor could heal himself via mjolnir

Whilst being constantly attacked? I doubt he'd be able to heal himself notably enough before Goku would rush into him again with a burst of attacks.

Just letting you know that thor can do it if he needs to

Omni-directional attacks

Those creatures that were attacking Thor looked weak as hell, no wonder he was able to blast them off so easily. Goku will be different, he'll be using Kaioken which allows him to hurt beings tougher than him.

Those creature were the body of surtur, the demon who > odin, those demons were not weak, they might look it, but they weren't, they are the white blood cells of surter's being.

Thor casually did this, and he wasn't even bloodlusted

How exactly did Thor do that, and why? Considering I didn't even see Thor in the scan, I don't know how to counter it as there's no clear way to counter it without more information. I'd appreciate it if you'd provide some.

Sure:

1

2

3

And at this point he was only warning the world, and like he said, if they tried anything, he would make things worse.

Everybody sees better than that old fart, because uf that were the case, then people like cell, frieza and buu wouldn't be able to perceive goku at all, thor would see him, though it wouldnt be easy

No, you actually need to prove that Thor could see someone who can move invisibly. Not by going by assumptions that Thor sees better than Kami, you need to prove it.

Seeing as how thor was the only avenger able to percieve hermes moving at incredible speeds on two occasions, as well as other gods, i think he would be able to see goku. Kami might have good eyesight, but he doesnt have the showings to prove it, otherwise i could say vegeta has better eyes than kami, freiza has better eyes than kami and thor has better eyes than kami because they have all seen faster things than Kami and have been able to react to them.

sensing used to track someone

In that scan Thor needed to keep increasing his height in order to find Loki, he was above the atmosphere before he could do it.

And the other one?

Alright, now that i'm done replying to your post it's time to get the real argument into play here:

Combat Speed:

Even without Instant Transmission, I do believe Goku is on another level of speed when it comes to combat compared to Thor.

Yeah, he is, but thor can handle him, i will adress that below.

Goku vanishes but Piccolo detects him. He smashes Goku into a wall, until Goku then vanished again so fast that was able to appear behind Piccolo before anyone (even Piccolo) could even detect a fraction of his movements:

Very impressive, though thor would be able to detect goku better than piccolo, if he was able to get a hit on goku like that he would follow up like he always does, he would not give goku a second to recover.

If Thor tried to hit Goku with Mjolnir, Goku would just phase through it and appear a distance away from Thor:

Here's more instances of Goku phasing through attacks effortlessly:

Phases through a Martial Artist's kick and one-shotted him:

Phases through Recoome's punch, and appears behind Jeice & Burter like he teleported:

Going through thor's attacks would only happen like one time, because theor has used mjolnir to hit intangible foes before, goku would not see it coming and would try and phase through again, only to get full powered mjolnir strike to the skull, and i'm not sure goku could take one of those, especially if it's amped further by thor's lightning etc.

to vision

Goku was able to take Tien's belt without Tien even feeling or noticing it:

While very nice, if goku attempted that he would be in serious trouble, firstly thor has nothing that could be taken that would hinder him at all (he isnt afraid to fight naked), and secondly, goku would probably go for mjolnir and when he finds that he can't lift it will waste valuable minutes trying to budge it (goku is the type of guy who wouldnt give up on trying to lift it) in which thor could let it suck goku dry, thor could attack goku with his biggest scariest attacks, or make mjolnir hit goku full force in the face or bfr goku to the sun or so many bad things

Thor would likely get furious at this rate, and go for a burst of attacks. Goku would be well, effortlessly avoiding every one of them. Just like he did to Nappa:

While i agree thor would go berserk, he wouldnt fight like nappa, after noticing how quick goku is on his feet, thor would rely on his skill in battle to make up for it, coupled with the fact that he has versatility while fighting (he can amp his shots, create weather patterns to slow down or hinder goku while fighting) he would do much better than nappa and would get those valuable shots in

Another thing, if thor used his AOE attacks most of them could one shot goku, the winds of 1000 worlds would tear goku to shreds if it even hit him with a glancing blow etc.

Traverse Speed:

While this is unnecessary in combat, Goku is still no slouch in travel speed.

He scaled one side of Namek to the other in one second:

Goku was so fast he was able to catch a Dragon-Ball seconds before they spread out across the planet:

While goku is very fast in travel speed, thor is faster, he is arguably the fastest travel speedster in comics save flashes, and cosmic entities, thor has flown so fast that suns flicker past as he flies.

Durability:

While Thor is certainly more durable than Goku, that doesn't mean that Goku isn't durable. In fact, Goku could take most of the damage that Thor can dish out. Goku's Speed is how he plays it out, he prefers to dodge instead of tanking attacks.

However if it came down to the point that Thor hits Goku, Goku's Durability is certainly enough to take punishment:

While i agree, if thor uses one of his uber attacks, if it connects with goku it's game over, like if thor does a godblast and goku a Kamehameha, when the godblast connects with goku then it's over, goku will die, and we all know how people in dbz don;t dodge attacks when they clash and lose

Piccolo hit Goku with a Nuke-Level Energy Blast, Goku still took it head on:

After that, Piccolo unexpectedly shot Goku through the shoulder, breaking his arm:

Goku was still able to dodge a punch, and strike Piccolo in the stomach:

Piccolo then broke both of Goku's legs:

And Goku's second arm:

Piccolo then generated another Energy Blast, firing it at a (seemingly) powerless Goku:

Goku was still able to avoid the blast, fly away and head-but Piccolo so hard that he KO'd Piccolo! :

Goku was able to beat Piccolo under the following conditions:

Very nice stuff, too bad thor trumps them

holocast bomb

look how close they are, don't beleive

inside a building when it exploded

  • Previously took a Nuke-Level Energy Blast
  • All of his limbs were broken
  • Virutally Ki-Less

Combat Genius:

Goku was able to learn the After-Image technique from just seeing it being done:

He learned the Kamehameha instantly, which took Master Roshi 50+ years to master:

He was even able to learn off all of Piccolo's moves from just fighting with him:

While goku is a combat genius, nobody in dbz really uses specific fighting styles save dragonball series, nowadays they fight more based on raw instincts in fights, thor's fighting tyle would not be copied because it it one honed in thousands of deadly battles, and the fact that he uses a weapon, which goku rarely does, and goku can't learn any moves from thor because the ones they use rely on ki whereas thor's are magical based

That should do for this post, your move.

your turn

#50 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1586 posts) - - Show Bio

This debate has got me wet, tag me when its voting. @pope052, you truly have filled that empty spot in the goku team since TDLP left.

makes a old goku debater proud.

@sebast_allen

being that im a closet thor fanboy, you...you are doing epic.

this is a really great debate.

Thanks bro, good to see an anime/comic fan again