#1 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

This Battle will take place as Zarathos deciding to face WWH in the WWH event!

How It Should Have Ended!

Battle in New York.

@theacidskull Lets do this.

#2 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull I will start this off.

Zarathos simply wins.

Your move.

#4 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@theacidskull I will start this off.

Zarathos simply wins.

Your move.

err....No. hulk wins?

LolZ. anyways, here is how i think this will go down, Zarathos is no doubt Very powerful, but so was world war hulk, no matter what damage was thrown at him, he had manged to heal from it, NO BOYD managed to put him down, even healing Zoms damages after he set fireworks to his gut, and ZEUS had to cheat and weaken hulk up with his skyfather powers, and hulk still stayed conscious long enough.

When Zarathos Took over, his hell fire could not sear the hulk, and then GR just simply left because the Illuminati was not innocent.

Zarathos has many ways to beat Hulk. While you say Hulk cannot be harm by Hell Fire, I disagree.

Hell Fire used by Blaze already beaten Savage Hulk by burning out the Oxygen.

Add to this the Soul Burning effect.

Hell Fire being used to Burn the Soul instead of the Flesh. these are the weaker Blaze. Zarathos Hellfire is not only prove more powerful, but it is more potent.

Truth is Hulk never shown to heal his soul. WWH has no soul affecting resistance shown. No Hulk has.

The Chains alone could also beat WWH.

The Chains of Ghost Rider are made of Hell Fire. They are Unbreakable by normal means and only broken with Magic or if GR is distracted. They are infinite in their making and can be made into spears, flechetes, and use to maneuver.

Scan 1: Rips a super human durable Lucifer Avatar in half.

Scan 2: Use to hold a Hell Lord in power Fallen Angel in place.

Scan 3: Drags Multi Ton Objects.

Scan 4: Uses them to latch onto the trees to counter attack.

Here he uses the chains to Incapacitate 2 Lucifer Avatars, each one possessing 1/3 of the Hell Lords total power.

I dont see Hulk who lost to Zeus in a CURBSTOMP come close to Half of Lucifer's power.

Just dont see it.

#5 Posted by dondave (40127 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be Awesome

#7 Edited by Lvenger (23943 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm looking forward to seeing how this debate plays out.

#8 Posted by New_World_Order (13893 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

I'm looking forward to seeing how this debate plays out.

#9 Posted by laflux (21299 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Me too.

Though I thought that CadenceV2 would show the feat of GR throwing a 200 ton Bulldozer miles or something. Strength is always important when your facing any Hulk lol.

#10 Posted by Pyrogram (43657 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (531 posts) - - Show Bio

Good starts...I'll keep a close watch on this debate.

#12 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio


1. Burning Oxygen will hardly work what with hulks adaptation abilities, Hulk has been able to breath in outer space before, even in the recent hickmans avengers.

Hulk Can adapt to hostile environments, and he is seen completely fine when he fights in open space.

as for soul burning? doesn't that require you to be Evil or something, and also whats the strongest character GR has used it on?

1) Hulk in Hickman's Avenegers is not being debated here. It is Hulk during WWH. If it can affect Savage, then it should affect WWH as I seen no feats to suggest he need no Oxygen in that incarnation.

Also no, Evil or Good get soul burn. Blaze is a good guy and he been Soul burn when it was turn on him. Like the Penance Stare, Soul Burn does not discreminate.

also why is Hulk not a Bad Guy? He is a @$$hole who wrecks New Yorkers homes, made homeless people, bankrupts hard working families, shut down work for parent whos kids starve, ect.

How is this guy good guy again?!

2. Hulk has Broken Magical Bonds many times before , the mystical Chains of cyttorak have proven futile against the hulk in the past, and hulk has also destroyed Classic Dr. Strange's mystic barrier

Defenders #18

so hulk has had many experience with magic, i don't see why he could shatter the chains, and even if he can't do that he could stomp his feet and knock GR far away in order for him to remove the chains, he did it in WORLD WAR HULK X-MEN, when his arms were disabled by adamantium.

Here is also another good Showing against magic

Defenders 68#

Hulk Diminishes a mountain made by a sorcerer strong enough to challenge hela.

2) Still proves nothing in breaking GR chains which cannot and have not been broken by non magical means. Also the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak sound great, but they been broken by Namor :/ not a solid feat those Crimson Bands.

3. HUlk lost to Zues yes, because Zeaus is a skyfather, and beyond that he was sapping hulks powers as the fight went on, GR doesn't have that advantage, in fact hulk will begetting stronger as times passes, and GR won't be able to KO hulk in time. Also, it's not like the hulk hasn't faced some serious threats before? he fought galaxy master twice, and the guys a known planet buster

Incredible Hulk #112

The Galaxy Master, an entity that roamed the cosmos and destroyed entire planets, assaults Savage Hulk who impossibly manages to fight through him in Incredible Hulk #112 and forces him to switch to chemical gas tactics( gas doesn't even work on hulk anymore)

Your missing the parts as to why Galaxy Master was beaten. It is because Hulks Gamma waves were Galaxy masters weakness.

Hulk beat this Galactus level threat with Gamma Radiation Waves that Hulks body Emits.

A weakness Zarathos does not share.

Also , grey hulk seemed to go against Satan ( or a SATANISH? can't remember the name), or at least we was able to take some damage damage from him, yeah he got his arse kicked, but 1/3 avatar isn't really THE SAME THING right? Hulk took a blast from emma frost when she had 1/2 of the phoenix power, and he had no damage what so ever, hell he was simply standing there later on, and this was savage hulk, who is weaker than WWH. World War hulk seemed fine when Zarathos tried to Sear him, when Blaze was knocked out, he took over, and hulk skin was fine, and now imagine all thous abilities getting stronger.

It was Santannish, and yes Santannish who is far weaker in the mortal realm kicked Grey Hulk butt. Zarathos is a Hell Lord with its full power on the mortal plane.

Just to get a Idea of what Hulk has to contend with...

Strength, Abomination is a 200 Toner. Plain and simple. This guy gives Hulk a good fight.

Ghost Rider is a 200+ Toner. Here he lifts a Excavator that is larger than the 200 Ton Cranes in the military. Then GR Throws it over the rain forest!

Zarathos is already in Hulks Ball Park in strength.

Also Zarathos can BFR Hulk with ease to either Hell, or to the Realm of the Ghost Riders. He can summon other Spirits of Vengeance.

The Ghost Rider Caleb has trouble taking down these Cowboys who are brought back from death by Satan with Demonic Powers. So Caleb BFRs via Hell Fire the Cowboys and what was left of the town into the Realm of the Ghost Riders.


Blaze and Ketch Summon the Spirits of Vengeance to take down the Reality Warping Angel Zadkiel who had the Power of God.

Heck Zarathos can pummel Hulks Soul with fire.

Scan 1, Scan 2-3, and Scan 4-5 are all Hell Fire Novas. The Radius is quite large.

Zarathos has also shown to make a Hell Fire Storm!

All these attacks will keep burning Hulks soul to ash.

He seems to feel it that is for sure.

Also how is Hulk beating zarathos at all?

Scan 1: Blaze eats Nitro. No damage sustained.

Scan 2: Reforms Leg with ease once Zarathos takes over.

Scan 3: Reforms head with ease once Zarathos Takes over.

Scan 1-4: GR reforms after Dr. Strange's more powerful Magic Attack.

Scan 5-8: World War Hulk one Shots Blaze. Then Zarathos takes control and reforms.

Hulk cannot even harm Zarathos.

#14 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio


1. The Hulk who was sent to Planet sakaar was breathing in space , which is seen in the scans i posted above, it clearly states that Hulk has adaptation abilities , which was established by peter David in tempest Fugit.

2. ??????DUDE!??? This is the same Guy who was willing to sacrifice himself for his family and let Zues beat on his like a punching bag, the SAME hulk who saved the world 3 times, once from tyrannus, once from the intelligencia, from his own son, and then from himself when he became world breaker. Hulk only kills the evil , similarly to Ghost rider, HUlk is in NO way a jerk, in fact, he still held back against everyone he faced during world war hulk, even though he Was 100% sure the 'heroes" had killed His wife and unborn child. HULK IS A HERO DAMMIT! he is in no way an Ass. maybe a a little.

1) I guess then its dependent on writer and version. Savage, Grey, and Merge Hulk could not breath without Oxygen. That is a fact.

2) Who cares? I know Zarathos does not. If you have a soul, Zarathos can burn it. Also Savage Hulk, Grey Hulk, ect are all jerks. thats is apart of Banner's past.

Also any A**hole (WWH) who wrecks my House and Job I worked at in New York has effectively left my Family Jobless and Homeless. Hero my tooshy, he is a A**hole.

it still shows that Hulk is not helpless against magic, and there is also the incident with hella, and also with Classic dr stranges barrier, and also Umars ( WHO IS ON PAR WITH STEPHEN) shields shattered with a thunderclap.

Shields mean nothing. All the stuff you labeled has been broken by non magical and WEAKER Beings.

Hulk Diminishes a mountain made by a sorcerer strong enough to challenge hela.

Classic Dr. Strange's mystic barrier can't withstand the punches of "the most powerful creature on the face of the Earth,"

hulk thunderclaps Fing Fang Foom to a magic wall and breaks it, the wall was made by Umar who is on par with dr strange on his peak

Yet all that fails to half a full power Hell Lord, and the simple fact everything you labeled is not specified to be Immune to Non Magical Power.

Hell Fire Chains simply have not been broken by any Non Magical means.

My point in this was that hulk has good experience against celestial level beings, but if Galaxy master, a planet destroyer doesn't cut it :P, there is always hiro-kala, who moved planets around like toys, and who slaughtered children without a moments hesitation, therefore he would not have held back against hulk, and his blast hardly damaged hulk.

Resisted a full blast from Hero Kala , hulk's dark son. The feat is impressive because same person was capable of moving a planet from microverse to macroverse (Sakaar Son of Hulk: Realm of Kings) and moving the planet around in space as a spaceship (Incredible Hulk: Dark Son- 610 to 616)

Yet Hulk loses flat out to Thor who is no where near that level of power in every fight. Hulk cannot even contend with Juggernaut. I never seen Hulk beat Hell Lords in there own Realm. Something Zarathos has.

Lets list the superior foes shall we.

Blaze vs Hell Lord strength Kazaar, a fallen angel.

Blaze holds his own against Dr. Strange. However in the end it was Zarathos who totally rocked the Sorcerer Supreme's world.

This is Zarathos true form which cause Classic Dr. Strange, Ketch GR, and the rest of the Midnight Sons retreat from most of the battles.

Zarathos battle with Mephisto. Zarathos had to be depowered before Mephisto could take him. This later is Retcon with current Origins, however both Nightmare and Mephisto as well Centurious confirm this. So a clash in continuity I guess lol.

Zarathos vs Null the Living Darkness. This guy later becomes a Defender level threat and minor Abstract Being. Nothing Null could do could effect Zarathos including shrinking him.

Zarathos overpowers Hell Lord Azmodeus in his own Hell Realm.

This is Lucifer at full power.

Zarathos effortlessly pwns a Half Power Lucifer with no trouble.

Now a showing of the Brothers Ghost Rider vs Zadkiel. Some key thing first.... Zadkiel is the keeper of the Ghost Riders, a Arch angel, and tasked by God to oversee them on earth. Zadkiel plans to take the Throne for himself.

Zadkiel is no joke of a Arch Angel either and one of the stronger ones rivaling Lucifer, Kazaan, and Ruth.

He finds a plot whole and exploits it through Ketch gathering all the Spirits of Vengeance power and burn Heavens Gates down. After this Ketch, Blaze, and Vengeance are the only ones with Spirits left on earth, and are hunted down as they search for a way into Heaven. They team up with Son of Satan and a new Anti Christ called Kid Blackheart. Zadkiel meanwhile is getting the hang of his powers over all Creation.

Zadkiel power as God and gathering it fully over all Creation.

Finally the Brothers find their way to Zadkiel and battle.

Zadkiel cannot be beaten by them 2 alone, however with power over all Creation and his Reality Warping Powers was unable to do anything to the GRs. Then Blaze learns a new trick from Roxanne, Summoning the Spirits of Vengeance and overpower Zadkiel.

The Point is Zrathos beats these guys who outclass 90% the foes Hulk Face and zarathos does this near effortlessly at times!

Simply lifting something once does not make GR a 200 tonner, because i could use it against you :P, just hear me out on this one. Hulk , at his weakest, when banner was in control, and he had trouble getting angry lifted a 15 billion ton mountain, does that make him a 15 billion tonner ? No! it's a good strength showing, but we still say that hulk is a 100 tonner, so GR is No where, and i mean NO WHERE, near as strong as the HUlk. You could argue that this was a different version, but WWH has a great power showing as well, he held a planet bigger than earth from falling apart while he was weakened.

Yet Abomination who is Savage Hulks starting Superior is a 200 toner and gave Hulk a good fight. every time.

What would Hulk do against 50+ Ghost Riders?

Ghsot Riders can summon other Ghost Riders.

Heck, blaze could make equal powerful replicates of himself via Hellfire.

So what is WWH going to do? Lose that is what!

holding tectonic plates of a planet, and it's important to know that sakaar is bigger than earth. The equatorial diameter of earth is 7,926 miles, while sakaar's is 12,150 miles.

So GR isn't a 200 tonner.

Yeah, GR is more. The Strength need to not only lift, but throw a 200+ ton Excavator is close to more 1000 toner strength.

So from what i am assuming GR BFR's PEOPLE when he can't win, so hulk will beat him so he'll be BFR'd? :P if BFR is an option , then i don't see why we are deabting as GR will simply remove hulk from the battle, i am more interested personally whether hulk will be able to beat GR or not. :)

Also, one one hand Gr could not beat Hell Cowboys, but on the other he beats a god? that doesn't seem right, sure he had help, but i feel that there had to be some catch which allowed them to win, or maybe it was Ketchs help that ultimetaly helped Gr win, and Blaze does not have ketchs help here.

To answer you questions.

1) GR BFRs people who CANNOT DIE! Hulk was beaten by weak showings Sentry. Caleb Ghost Rider is a HUMAN CONTROLLED Ghost Rider and is Street Level.

Point is Hulk gets own badly by Street Level Caleb GR lol.

2) I posted the WHOLE Battle above of the Zadkiel situation. Has nothing to do with Ketch. Infact it was Blaze who summon the GRs and Ketch merely followed his lead as the scans showed.

Zarathos Tried once to sear hulk, and it didn't work, and even though the fight was inconclusive, It was clear that Hulk wasn't Hurt, he showed Some singht of pain, but honestly the Johnny/storm Combo did way more damage.

Hulk screamed in agony like a girl from a SIMPLE AOE blast. It burned his soul alright. Also the fight never happen. So why bring up that as a feat for Hulk? Everyone from Strange to Hulk himself knew Zarathos would have spanked Hulk.

Also Was Dr.Strange Trying to kill Gr? Otherwise i see it EXTREMELY out of character for him to Use his strongest attack, and i'm sure Strange's , The Sorcerer supremes STRONGEST STRIKE would do more than Just sear that ground, And hulk does Have a track record of Hurting near Invincible People. Juggernaut, who is also was hurt by a much weaker version of the hulk, and juggs is powered by magic, and as mentioned before, Drax had also been hurt by Prof hulk.

He had to use it as Strange knew Blaze would unleash Lucifer Full Power on Earth. He also KOed Blaze who is the weak part. Then Zarathos came out and spanked Strange the same way Zarathos Spanked Strange back in the 90s during the Midnight Sons Comics.

Your proving who has the bigger muscles which mean crap when GR has Souk Burning, Invulnerable to Hulks attacks, BFR into another Dimension, or Simply Penance Stare Hulks butt.

Also Hulk NEVER beaten Juggs when Juggs was fully powered. EVER!

  • 1) Hulk Ripped the Helmet off Classic Juggs and wandered away, Xavier then Mental KOes Juggs.
  • 2) Hulk then KOes a Depowered Juggs when he was Merged Hulk.
  • 3) War Hulk AMPED BY CELESTIAL TECH threw Juggs around and that was it.
  • 4) WWH avoided a fight with Juggs after Cyrrotak rempowered him.

Where has Hulk EVER hurt Juggs while Juggs was actually empowered with Magic?!

Sorry for the late reply, i originaly wrote one right away, but for some reason CV didn't send it.

No probs.

#16 Posted by NeonGameWave (11566 posts) - - Show Bio


#17 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Cool, we will end the discussion then. I just wanted to make this clear after the other thread. Zarathos GR is a Hell Lord. Hulk just cannot win against that.

Also the Juggs in the 90s vs Merge Hulk was Depowered. Its states as much after Juggs Peeves off Cyrotak and became depowered as well supported by his Bio.

#18 Posted by laflux (21299 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio