CaV: Terminator vs Exo-Soldier (Terminator)

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Maverick_6

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#1  Edited By Maverick_6
"The machines rose from the ashes of the nuclear fire. Their war to exterminate mankind has raged for decades, but the final battle would not be fought in the future. It would be fought here, in our present. Tonight."

VS.

"Power changes everything"

Location

Times square
Times square

Rules

  • Composite T-800
  • Composite Exo-Soldier
  • All gear for both
  • 5 Minutes of prep exclusively to select their gear before the fight
  • Starting points are 100 feet apart in the street.
  • Victory by K.O or Kill.
  • Both have limited knowledge of one another's strength, durability and speed.

@sirfizzwhizz

Let's get this show on the road.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@maverick_6: this looks good, should be fun. I wil get on this tommorow, if you wish to open with a intro go ahead.

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Maverick_6

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#3  Edited By Maverick_6

@sirfizzwhizz: Would prefer it be you since I'm not experienced with CaVs. I'll bum the format off you.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@maverick_6: Ok for gear this is the load out.

Plasma Rifle, Living Tissue, and Grenade Launcher. Thats all is needed really.

No Caption Provided

The T-800, the most realible, and proven machine ever made by Sky Net. What is the Terminator though?

No Caption Provided

In a nut shell. The machine looks and acts like a human in many ways, but in reality its a super developed killing machine. Complete with a insane complicated Microhip processor.

No Caption Provided

Its so advance he can learn from experience, and adapt to situations as needed. He is alone programmed in much expertise on human anatomy, weapon systems, infiltration methods, tracking, repairing, technology analyzing, martial arts, and more. it holds more knowledge and training than the any human could ever hope to. Add to this it can think, and make decisions with possible outcomes faster than a human rationally could. Thats not all though, this Machine is also as durable as a tank in many ways, and in the ton range of strength. It never tires, feels no pain, fear, or any emotion other than getting the job done.

It really is superior in every way. There is certain weaknesses that humans can exploit, but a well season Terminator, like in the certain movies and certain comics, will decimate most foes with utter ease as a superior soldier.

Scenario:

Will as a infiltration model, this machine will initially not stick out at all. It will most likely blend somewhat in, whole your character is a sore thumb. Once the battle engages, it will find a good firing point, and terminate as it unveils its weapons.

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Maverick_6

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#5  Edited By Maverick_6

@sirfizzwhizz:

Good argument. But now I'll have at you.

Loadout

  • MORS custom (A bolt action railgun)
  • A gymbag (optional)
  • Variable Grenade
  • Booster Pack
  • Grappling hook
  • Stim (increases reflexes)
  • MDL Custom (An advanced Grenade launcher)
MDL
MDL

Let me introduce someone rather new and essentially unknown to the battle forums.

The call of duty Exo-Soldier

No Caption Provided

He doesn't seem like much of anything of course. He comes from call of duty, right?He comes from a very popular game known to grounded and something to which someone can relate right?

Well, I am here to tell you that this character, has abilities that seem like something out of comicbook. Superhuman Strength, Maneuverability, Reflexes, Durability and an Arsenal that would seem like something Batman would take with him. Each and everyone of them is nothing less then a bonafide super soldier with tons of hidden gadgets and gizmos.

He is meant to be the next generation warfighter. An augmentation of the individual rather then just the vehicles. The main protagonist is just one of these resourceful soldiers who makes a mockery of any human soldier who attempts to fight him. So of course, it would make sense to pit him against the terminator.

But what does he do? Well, let's start with durability. They're all tough, though not to the point that they can walk through bullets...

Oh wait. They do have a shield that lets them do that, and they even go out of their way to show you it doing it.

So I'll just go ahead and show you a soldier blatantly taking an explosion to the face and getting blown back into a crater before falling to the ground.

Loading Video...

Que scene

"There it is!"

*BOOM*

"Carter! you alright?"

*Cough* "I'm good." Is his reply

Few moments later and the guy get up and continues the mission like the honey badger he is.

Yes, the terminator is impressive of course and formidable. But these soldiers are unlike what they are typically used to fighting. The are by no means, normal human beings once that exo and body armor get on them.

Scenario

Stick out like sore thumb? Well, he can play the stealth game to, being that you can store your exo in a gym bag. It's lightweight enough to not even encumber the character drastically. He can do the exact same, finding somewhere inconspicuous and equip his own exo.

Kitted up and ready to go
Kitted up and ready to go

Otherwise, he can simply find a good spot right from the start if he wants to go loud. While the terminator to my knowledge, has not shown the mobility to scale a building in a matter of seconds. From there, as soon as the terminator fires, it will be at a disadvantage. The plasma gun shows a much lower muzzle velocity then a normal weapon, let alone a bolt action railgun that shoots rounds fast enough to ignite the air. (In supersonic, going on hypersonic range). The grenade launcher will have difficulty hitting it's target when they are in fact higher then you are.

And then there is the MDL, a grenade launcher that shoots homing grenades at it's marked targets. Making it much better then a normal grenade launcher. The terminator seems to have a thing against shotguns. I wonder how it will fair against recieving a grenade that can hit it directly nearly every shot.

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_Absolution_

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#6  Edited By _Absolution_

Leaning towards the terminator. But the CoD soldier has a shot.

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Maverick_6

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#7  Edited By Maverick_6
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those_eyes

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#8  Edited By those_eyes

tag 4 votes

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TheNaughtyTitan

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Leaning towards the terminator. But the CoD soldier has a shot.

This is a cav man, a debate between 2 viners where we vote on who debated better at the end.

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CRUSHYOURENEMIES

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If Terminator losses we riot.

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Maverick_6

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tag 4 votes

Who do I tag, my mom? I am a bonafide noob who barely comes to this section of the forums. No clue who to tag around here.

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Joewell911

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#12  Edited By Joewell911

Tag me too. This looks interesting.

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SpinnerComix

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T4V please. This is going to be interesting. Lots of weird feats coming in/

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Maverick_6

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Bullet_to_the_Head

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t4v

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sirfizzwhizz

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@maverick_6: T4V mean to tag everyone at the end of the debate so they know it's done and ready to be read.

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#17  Edited By Maverick_6
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sirfizzwhizz

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#18  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@maverick_6: Ok replies.

While the terminator to my knowledge, has not shown the mobility to scale a building in a matter of seconds.

Yes they have.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Two examples of jumping from a jet bike to scale a brick wall, and another of scaling a rock formation to get above a machine.

They can scale just fine, though I see no reason they need to when Stairs in the buildings work best.

From there, as soon as the terminator fires, it will be at a disadvantage. The plasma gun shows a much lower muzzle velocity then a normal weapon, let alone a bolt action railgun that shoots rounds fast enough to ignite the air. (In supersonic, going on hypersonic range). The grenade launcher will have difficulty hitting it's target when they are in fact higher then you are.

The Plasma Gun is not slow at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih_l0vBISOE

https://youtu.be/nL4ckHJ4dZA?t=190

it looks every bit as fast as any tracer round out of the barrel of a Assault Rifle. Saying its slower than a machine gun bullet is assuming at best.

And then there is the MDL, a grenade launcher that shoots homing grenades at it's marked targets. Making it much better then a normal grenade launcher. The terminator seems to have a thing against shotguns. I wonder how it will fair against recieving a grenade that can hit it directly nearly every shot.

Now this is where the argument gets interesting. Should your character for whatever reason survive the initial Plasma Bolts, T-800 will deal with this grenade launcher fine for follow up attacks.

No Caption Provided

T-800 from Terminator Salvation wlaks through not one, but two Grenades from a grenade launcher just fine in the chest.

T-800 with no damage tanks a large car make shift car bomb.

No Caption Provided

Here T-800 tanks the full blast, and shrapnel of a Semi haluing a Propane tanker. Thats building busting blows.

Then there is the fact T-800s are not slow, and can likely dodge or out pace this homing Grenade anyway.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

T-800s have shown plenty of consistency of dodging attacks that may harm them and they know would harm them. Speeding cars, Plasma Bolts, or even homing missiles.

So this T-800 is not going be easily hit, and even if it is it would most likely be unfaze by what few shots it does tank. However, the CoD soldier cannot claim the same if he gets nailed by a Plasma Bolt....

No Caption Provided

He get blown away quicker than this solid concrete pillar.

As seen with this host of accuracy feats, from nailing a small target with a RPG, one shotting people taking cover, to nailing guys with saw blades as they speed by show how hard it will be to dodge T-800 anyway. the only time T-800 ever misses is if your name end in Conner lol. Not the case here.

So in the end, I see T-800more than keeping eyes on your guy, and shooting him up in a open space like this level, where your guy is way less durable than mine.

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Maverick_6

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Yes I know the terminator can scale buildings.

But I'm not talking assassin's creed style. I'm talking "grapple up in a second arkham batman style"

No Caption Provided

It's this kind of vertical mobility I don't see the terminator having. I've seen him catch up to a moving car by running, so I know it runs faster. It's fairly agile from what it's displayed.

That's the thing that makes them so hard to hit. They can dash, and they can move vertically. They can jump from skyscrapers and slow their fall to land completely fine afterwards from 50 stories up thanks their booster packs.

However, so is the exosoldier. Who weaves through railgun fire that blows through concrete like a hot knife through butter, fighting car to car, taking down helicopters by hijacking them and jumping off them, the whole typical breaching procedure that entails blowing a hole in a wall and blitzing people before they have any type of chance to react.

And they have fight other soldiers who also have said enhancements to bunny hop a story up and dash all around like some quake game.

Still, I'll give the terminator accuracy. He has more feats where that is concerned. I'm just trying to dictate that my character isn't a bum shot and I don't really doubt his ability to tag the terminator.

But good luck tagging someone with a grenade launcher when they're already seven stories up a few moments after the fight begins.

Onto the next part, of course, exosoldiers tank explosions too and well, here, you see, in first person I might add, as a car bomb goes off in you're character's face, sends him hurdling back tens of meters away and then finds his home,denting into a car, and then gets up again.

He isn't even knocked out. He's dazed at best and just keeps going about the mission as if nothing even happened moments later.

Loading Video...

As for tanking, yeah, even if he can tag something that's just going to bob and weave left and right through his jump pack, it's not going to be easy.

Thing with the explosions and such, is that terminators, much like this character survive them. But it's going to be a helluva lot harder to tag someone 20 feet in the air who can change directions at the flip of a switch, then someone who is just going to stand there. Not to say that hitting a target many feet away with an RPG isn't impressive but this is a different level of agility and explosive-like speed that the terminator's human and otherwise foes have yet to encounter.

Meanwhile, there doesn't seem to be indication that those rockets were guided, and even then, the terminator is going to have to jump through several from a compitent marksman with enhanced reflexes and rockets that will change direction. If one grenade from a M203 stuns it, I think it will have a problem having to take 6 in rapid succession from a gun with a revolver-like rotating barrel.

M4 Plasma Rifle vs MORs

Onto the next argument, Plasma Gun vs Railgun. The railgun is mentioned to faster then normal guns and it shows . When you shoot the MORS, it leaves a trail because the air ignites whenever you fire the thing, which is somewhere around mach 5 to perhaps even mach 8 or more. Causing a shockwave with a small projectile that melts metal doors and rips through concrete walls like it's nothing.

Loading Video...

The effects on regular people are pretty consistent. It blows people literally off their feat, and well should rightfully turn them into gore (but they won't allow for much gore) with the explosions it generate not from having any kind explosives, but from simply having enough kinetic energy to cause an explosion. Something that goes into the realm of upper kilojoules in kinetic energy. This thing is going to hurt a lot more then your average .50 cal. Let alone the small arms fire that the terminator is used to walking through.

So, far here is how I see it.

Accuracy: Terminator, but by only really a step.

Running Speed: Terminator

Maneuvrability: Exo-soldier by a landslide. Would have mentioned the actual ability to swim but that doesn't pres

Agility: Exo-Soldier

Weapons:

  • The MDL is the superior grenade launcher.
  • The MORs seems to be the superior Weapon to the plasma weapon from my perspective.
  • There is still more equipment to cover for later and heavier weapons to be brought out if necessary. Not only this, but the Exosoldier has a more extensive array of options and things he can bring to the battlefield.

Durability: Roughly the same when it comes to explosives when the soldier is fully armored

Strength: Roughly the same. Not that it really matters too much in a gunfight where everyone can handle the recoil of their weapons just fine.

The way I see it, if the Exo-Soldier gets any type of range, eventually he's going to wear down the terminator. I've looked up tracer rounds for assault rifles on youtube and I'm not very convinced that they match up to an assault rifle. Granted, they are fast but even with a tracer, you mostly see a trail of smoke from the rifle rather then the actual round. Though I'll admit the weapon is definitely a threat, I'm not too sure how the terminator is going to fair at middle-long distance against the soldier's current loadout.

(Off topic if you didn't know, Comicvine tried to eat my post, so, when you make something long, I recommend always copying and pasting before you post something. Been a frequent problem for me.)

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sirfizzwhizz

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#20  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@maverick_6:

Yes I know the terminator can scale buildings.

But I'm not talking assassin's creed style. I'm talking "grapple up in a second arkham batman style"

It's this kind of vertical mobility I don't see the terminator having. I've seen him catch up to a moving car by running, so I know it runs faster. It's fairly agile from what it's displayed.

That's the thing that makes them so hard to hit. They can dash, and they can move vertically. They can jump from skyscrapers and slow their fall to land completely fine afterwards from 50 stories up thanks their booster packs.

While a interesting point, The T-800 can do very well on the ground anyway. It still has several benefits to counter this type of warfare.

One is the Infrared and X-Ray sensors.

1) Scans Marcus body with X-Ray to find his heart.

2) See this soldier through the car.

3) One Terminator locating another through the subway trains walls.

4) T-800 that scans through the hot desert dunes to find several people underground.

5) Main infrared is impaired so they switch to X-Ray as stated.

6) T-800 is able to detect the cold bones several feet buried underground.

How does this play role? By using the Infrared with X-Ray the T-800 can easily enter any building, and keep track of your character while making his way into a more favorable position. There is also the fact the T-800 can simply add to this chaos using Tear Gas rounds in the Grenade launcher.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Not only will it possibly hinder your character on ground levels, but it will smoke the area where T-800 scanners benefit as well.

However, so is the exosoldier. Who weaves through railgun fire that blows through concrete like a hot knife through butter, fighting car to car, taking down helicopters by hijacking them and jumping off them, the whole typical breaching procedure that entails blowing a hole in a wall and blitzing people before they have any type of chance to react.

And they have fight other soldiers who also have said enhancements to bunny hop a story up and dash all around like some quake game.

While your characters have decent agility and speed, so does T-800. Most of what you listed been done as well.

1-3) T-800 causally reacts faster than a room full of humans can pull a trigger, and disarms then before they can blast away John.

4) T-800 chasing a woman in full srpint, but while keeping up with her the Terminator is taking down multiple cops.

5) Faster than Cops pulling up can detect. Real Batman move here.

6) Blitzes several Terminator fighting Resistance fighters before they can get a good shot off.

In short, T-800 has shown great movement speed, and the ability to be above peak human.

Still, I'll give the terminator accuracy. He has more feats where that is concerned. I'm just trying to dictate that my character isn't a bum shot and I don't really doubt his ability to tag the terminator.

But good luck tagging someone with a grenade launcher when they're already seven stories up a few moments after the fight begins.

Fair enough, the grenade Launcher AOE is minimal, and the Grenade Launcher is pretty accurate in the hands of a T-800.

Regardless there is the Plasma Gun as the main threat. As seen above, a T-800 can duel wiled these weapons equally.

Onto the next part, of course, exosoldiers tank explosions too and well, here, you see, in first person I might add, as a car bomb goes off in you're character's face, sends him hurdling back tens of meters away and then finds his home,denting into a car, and then gets up again.

He isn't even knocked out. He's dazed at best and just keeps going about the mission as if nothing even happened moments later.

As for tanking, yeah, even if he can tag something that's just going to bob and weave left and right through his jump pack, it's not going to be easy.

While your character is easy above peak human with such feats, there is a hole in the argument. The Exoskeleton does not block the shrapnel or the heat damage from such explosions. Being peppered with debrie of glass, metal, ect from a explosive blast will have a lasting effect, and as you said yourself does daze your character.

Thing with the explosions and such, is that terminators, much like this character survive them. But it's going to be a helluva lot harder to tag someone 20 feet in the air who can change directions at the flip of a switch, then someone who is just going to stand there. Not to say that hitting a target many feet away with an RPG isn't impressive but this is a different level of agility and explosive-like speed that the terminator's human and otherwise foes have yet to encounter.

Meanwhile, there doesn't seem to be indication that those rockets were guided, and even then, the terminator is going to have to jump through several from a compitent marksman with enhanced reflexes and rockets that will change direction. If one grenade from a M203 stuns it, I think it will have a problem having to take 6 in rapid succession from a gun with a revolver-like rotating barrel.

Like I showed above, T-800 dodge and weave when needed to attacks. I showed this in my first post dodging ramming vehicles, crashing into walls on speeder bikes, and missiles. i showed above again more speed feats. Im not sold on them being tag when your character will have a tough time nailing a target with no heat to be followed, or in a building tracking your guy, or covers the battlefield in tear gas. In short it will be insane hard to nail this T-800.

M4 Plasma Rifle vs MORs

Onto the next argument, Plasma Gun vs Railgun. The railgun is mentioned to faster then normal guns and it shows . When you shoot the MORS, it leaves a trail because the air ignites whenever you fire the thing, which is somewhere around mach 5 to perhaps even mach 8 or more. Causing a shockwave with a small projectile that melts metal doors and rips through concrete walls like it's nothing.

The effects on regular people are pretty consistent. It blows people literally off their feat, and well should rightfully turn them into gore (but they won't allow for much gore) with the explosions it generate not from having any kind explosives, but from simply having enough kinetic energy to cause an explosion. Something that goes into the realm of upper kilojoules in kinetic energy. This thing is going to hurt a lot more then your average .50 cal. Let alone the small arms fire that the terminator is used to walking through.

Yes this could indeed be a major hurdle, even then by feats a T-800 can fight on with insane damage, and will take way more than one shot to be in critical damage.

These things survive being run over by trains.

They tank Plasma gun fire that one shot solid stone columns well enough, and only vehicles mounted plasma canons can one shot them easy.

They can reroute circuits to remain as effective as possible. they are design to keep on trucking.

In short I am not sold on the Rail Gun as a end all be all, however the Plasma Gun will one shot the Exo Soldier.

The way I see it, if the Exo-Soldier gets any type of range, eventually he's going to wear down the terminator. I've looked up tracer rounds for assault rifles on youtube and I'm not very convinced that they match up to an assault rifle. Granted, they are fast but even with a tracer, you mostly see a trail of smoke from the rifle rather then the actual round. Though I'll admit the weapon is definitely a threat, I'm not too sure how the terminator is going to fair at middle-long distance against the soldier's current loadout.

Well as i pointed out, Terminator has many options, and being a super smart machine, he will not stand out in the open like a fool.

I can see this battle going down exactly like this. A T-800 using covers, shadows, and whatever else it can to attack a whole group of heavily armed cops, and a attack copter. He was moving from position to position so fast and stealthy that the Cops thought they were surrounded. Given the tear gas rounds for the Grenade Launcher,and the use of terrain in this map, with added X-Ray sensors, I am unsure how your character is having any advantage.While your character needs many shots, my character needs one hit with the Plasma Rifle, and duel wielding the grenade Launcher with HE rounds makes my character more dangerous.

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Bullet_to_the_Head

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bump

uh

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Maverick_6

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sirfizzwhizz

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Maverick_6

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#24  Edited By Maverick_6

@sirfizzwhizz:

Alright. Sorry for the wait. I also formatted this pretty oddly by dividing it as I typed it.

Agility, Speed and Facial Protection

Interesting. This brings about a new need for gear for our Exosoldier. Here, but one would be surprised how much gear this guy actually has.

Tear Gas I don't forsee a being a problem considering the masks they have to protect against toxins that wilk protect against that and even comes with it's own oxygen supply to protect against being in space, being underwater and it wouldn't be far fetched to say they have a filter as well.

As for agility....

No Caption Provided

Never seen a peak human do that....

Like I said, the terminator is agile, but with the booster, it's not as nimble as our exosoldier.

Detection/Scanners

For one, drones are a pretty common enemy in advanced warfare. As well as larger foes like tanks and durable foes like ASTs.

One problem for the terminator is that the exosoldier has outright threat detection. And one that would arguably work on the terminator because it doesn't seem to rely on tracking someone's heat signature at all.

The threat Grenade
The threat Grenade

What the grenade is, is something that maps out and tracks any enemies, even working on drones and vehicles. The variable grenade that I mention earlier has three modes, a Threat Grenade, an EMP and a Flash. Although, the last 2 are irrelevant. What I'm focusing on is the threat grenade variant.

Scoped Version
Scoped Version

Now, I have no idea at all about the intricacies as to exactly "how" it works, however, it is mentioned several times and used during relatively plot important sequences. Essentially, you use it by throwing it near them, and explosion marks any target within it's radius.

With this, they'll pretty much be able to keep track of each other just as easily....

Until the Exosuit user breaks out his cloaking device.....

Stealth

Loading Video...

It cloaks from both thermals and essentially all the other forms of X-Ray vision that exist. Threat grenades, millimeter scanners and the like that let you see through walls. Nothing can really find the user while it's up.

And then to add to the soldiers own stealthier kit is the Mute charge. The terminator most likely has enhanced hearing, right?

Welp, while this is activated near by, this will little thing will make that entire point moot.

No Caption Provided

It negates sound completely for around a dozen seconds or so. I'm talking "I'll cut through a few feet of reinforced concrete with this here laser, cause said solid concrete slab to drop and blow everyone's brains out" sound negation.

Loading Video...

If the terminator is indeed the infiltrator type, I'd argue that the Special Ops style stealth of the exosoldier is going to be superior. Just bring thermals against the terminator if it does produce no heat, otherwise, you can just see it and anyone else trying to stalk him into the building.

MORS vs Plasma Rifle/Durability

The ever ongoing argument of Kinetics vs Energy weapons...

Well, the terminator from my perspective is going to have trouble with this weapon because, well, the terminator has a bad track record against Kinetics. Even something like a modern day .50 Cal can go through a concrete wall (or practically anything you could take cover behind) without much trouble from a close range. And the railgun has been shown to be even more powerful than that.

Now, explosives deal a different kind of damage, and in actuality, pure explosives are bad at penetrating armor. Explosives that are fragmentation types and other such types of weapons. They will functionally tank something like 40 mm grenade launcher used in that scene. What an APC won't tank is .50 cal, and it certainly won't tank this railgun.

Now, from what I understand, a T-888 (from my understanding more durable version of the terminator) got blown apart by a .50 cal.

Now even if the T-888 is less durable then the T-800, I really don't think he'd like taking a railgun round to the face. If the .50 cal's muzzle energy can be converted to roughly 7.5 tons on a concentrated area, I don't think he'd like taking a railgun in the upper kilojoule range that is literally hitting hard enough to cause small blastwaves.

As for durability, the exosoldier isn't exactly a slouch either. They very well do have some pretty obscene levels of durability (if you are the protagonist, that is).

Not on par with the terminators, but agility and mobility has it's prices. Here, the protagonist blatantly gets rammed by an at the very least, 5,200 pound vehicle moving and high speeds all the way until he is smashed up against a wall and pinned. Something that would have completely splattered any normal person.

Loading Video...

As for explosives, well, there was logically shrapnel incorporated. The wall blew up in a guy's face, which would send concrete. A van exploded. With how modern gear is made, I suspect these guys have very next gen shrapnel protection.

The Scenario

The terminator like you said, won't stand around with it's thumb up it's ass, but all it takes is one threat grenade and you'll be within sight. The exosoldier is going to keep positioning himself at angles too awkward for a grenade and the tear gas is going to be ineffective. If he really wants to stay stealthy and out of the terminator's sight, then he can simply cloak and keep running away from it.

With this now, is where the MORS is most advantageous. The plasma rifle is of course potent and deadly, but it won't compete with the MORS at a distance nor do I really suspect that you're going to be able to wallhack someone a few thousand feet away with it. The exosoldier is going to keep this distance advantage with his own mobility and lame the terminator out, wearing it down and staying clear of. If it does get close, the soldier can cloak+mute charge, giving the terminator practically no sense to detect it with. Firing a gun will reveal you. I think the terminator definitely has a durable chest as that's where people seem to like shooting for some reason.

But a headshot? I'm not quite seeing the Terminator function after that.

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gideon ftw

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@maverick_6:

Agility, Speed and Facial Protection

Interesting. This brings about a new need for gear for our Exosoldier. Here, but one would be surprised how much gear this guy actually has.

Tear Gas I don't forsee a being a problem considering the masks they have to protect against toxins that wilk protect against that and even comes with it's own oxygen supply to protect against being in space, being underwater and it wouldn't be far fetched to say they have a filter as well.

The Idea is to disrupt line of sight, where T-800 can follow just find.

As for agility....

Never seen a peak human do that....

Like I said, the terminator is agile, but with the booster, it's not as nimble as our exosoldier.

Im not sure why T-800 cannot simply shoot him should he try that. Its not that hard to counter, and kids in multiplayer games react to that maneuver just fine :)

Detection/Scanners

For one, drones are a pretty common enemy in advanced warfare. As well as larger foes like tanks and durable foes like ASTs.

One problem for the terminator is that the exosoldier has outright threat detection. And one that would arguably work on the terminator because it doesn't seem to rely on tracking someone's heat signature at all.

Seems vague to me. How can it track a threat he knows nothing about? Sounds like game play magic more than a actual thing.

What the grenade is, is something that maps out and tracks any enemies, even working on drones and vehicles. The variable grenade that I mention earlier has three modes, a Threat Grenade, an EMP and a Flash. Although, the last 2 are irrelevant. What I'm focusing on is the threat grenade variant.

Now, I have no idea at all about the intricacies as to exactly "how" it works, however, it is mentioned several times and used during relatively plot important sequences. Essentially, you use it by throwing it near them, and explosion marks any target within it's radius.

With this, they'll pretty much be able to keep track of each other just as easily....

Fair enough.

Until the Exosuit user breaks out his cloaking device.....

Stealth

It cloaks from both thermals and essentially all the other forms of X-Ray vision that exist. Threat grenades, millimeter scanners and the like that let you see through walls. Nothing can really find the user while it's up.

Can I see proof of all this? I see nothing or read nothing about this cloak having immunity to Thermals or X-Rays.

And then to add to the soldiers own stealthier kit is the Mute charge. The terminator most likely has enhanced hearing, right?

Welp, while this is activated near by, this will little thing will make that entire point moot.

It negates sound completely for around a dozen seconds or so. I'm talking "I'll cut through a few feet of reinforced concrete with this here laser, cause said solid concrete slab to drop and blow everyone's brains out" sound negation.

T-800 has no enhance hearing I am aware of.

If the terminator is indeed the infiltrator type, I'd argue that the Special Ops style stealth of the exosoldier is going to be superior. Just bring thermals against the terminator if it does produce no heat, otherwise, you can just see it and anyone else trying to stalk him into the building.

problem is the T-800 is going to be firing away with superior weapon in the form of the Plasma Rifle, and thanks to its accuracy and sensors will easily take out your trooper.

MORS vs Plasma Rifle/Durability

The ever ongoing argument of Kinetics vs Energy weapons...

Plasma Gun will one shot your guy, your weapons will not do the same, that is the argument.

Well, the terminator from my perspective is going to have trouble with this weapon because, well, the terminator has a bad track record against Kinetics. Even something like a modern day .50 Cal can go through a concrete wall (or practically anything you could take cover behind) without much trouble from a close range. And the railgun has been shown to be even more powerful than that.

Bad track record.... how? I showed above them tanking a hit from a speeding train and still going fine. Tanking the kinetic force of building busting blasts and grenade launchers to the chest fine. Heck here is more.

Rammed by a armored van on the highway. No damage.

No Caption Provided

Here is T-800 hit by a full Semi moving at high speeds and still fight on with a slight gimp in his leg.

Here is another tanking being rammed by a tow truck like nothing, then tanks a anti tank rocket to the back.

Here two T-800s tank dynamite, and then the cave in that follows, digging themselves out just fine.

Im not sure how your going to say they have a bad track record vs kinetic damage.

Now, explosives deal a different kind of damage, and in actuality, pure explosives are bad at penetrating armor. Explosives that are fragmentation types and other such types of weapons. They will functionally tank something like 40 mm grenade launcher used in that scene. What an APC won't tank is .50 cal, and it certainly won't tank this railgun.

Not true. As showed above the T-800 tank a anti tank rocket to the back, and T-800s tank weapons with more punch than a 50 Cal anyway in the form of the Plasma Guns that make .50 Cals obsolete as weapons. The Plasma Guns pierce tank armor fine, and hit with enough kinetic force to shatter solid concrete columns, something a .50 Cal would actually not be able to do on the first shot.

Now, from what I understand, a T-888 (from my understanding more durable version of the terminator) got blown apart by a .50 cal.

T-888 is inferior, and not even Canon to the movies or comics to those movies. T-888 is its own spin off thing, and was very poor one at that.

Now even if the T-888 is less durable then the T-800, I really don't think he'd like taking a railgun round to the face. If the .50 cal's muzzle energy can be converted to roughly 7.5 tons on a concentrated area, I don't think he'd like taking a railgun in the upper kilojoule range that is literally hitting hard enough to cause small blastwaves.

Maybe not, however this is under the impression T-800 will not reconize the threat of the weapons your character is packing.

Four scans of the same thing. T-800s able to look at just about anything, and figure out from a quick scan what it is capable of, what it is, or used for. One quick scan of your guy will reveal all is needed and what counters to use against him. Im not sure why T-800, a competent one anyway, will allow itself in a position to be attacked by said weapon.

As for durability, the exosoldier isn't exactly a slouch either. They very well do have some pretty obscene levels of durability (if you are the protagonist, that is).

Well, one Plasma Shot is all its going to take. with Grenade Launcher firing at him too, he will not last long.

Not on par with the terminators, but agility and mobility has it's prices. Here, the protagonist blatantly gets rammed by an at the very least, 5,200 pound vehicle moving and high speeds all the way until he is smashed up against a wall and pinned. Something that would have completely splattered any normal person.

This was a bad showing. First off, i am unsure where your getting a small car like that weighing close to 2.5 tons. If anything its barely 1 ton. Second this fight showed one of your characters in the exo suit getting beat up and overpowered by a normal human. Whats that about?!

As for explosives, well, there was logically shrapnel incorporated. The wall blew up in a guy's face, which would send concrete. A van exploded. With how modern gear is made, I suspect these guys have very next gen shrapnel protection.

The HE rounds of the Grenade Launcher and Plasma Bolt is still all is needed IMO.

The Scenario

The terminator like you said, won't stand around with it's thumb up it's ass, but all it takes is one threat grenade and you'll be within sight. The exosoldier is going to keep positioning himself at angles too awkward for a grenade and the tear gas is going to be ineffective. If he really wants to stay stealthy and out of the terminator's sight, then he can simply cloak and keep running away from it.

Im not convince he can cloak from its sensors. With that in mind, T-800 is able to keep tabs, and out maneuver him.

With this now, is where the MORS is most advantageous. The plasma rifle is of course potent and deadly, but it won't compete with the MORS at a distance nor do I really suspect that you're going to be able to wallhack someone a few thousand feet away with it. The exosoldier is going to keep this distance advantage with his own mobility and lame the terminator out, wearing it down and staying clear of. If it does get close, the soldier can cloak+mute charge, giving the terminator practically no sense to detect it with. Firing a gun will reveal you. I think the terminator definitely has a durable chest as that's where people seem to like shooting for some reason.

But a headshot? I'm not quite seeing the Terminator function after that.

Considering the map, its not useful using your MORS anyway. Too many obstacles. In a open field you have a point, here it is unwieldy, and T-800 will simply stay out of sight with his superior tracking abilities, make his way around, and make this more of a close range fire fight where he will win.

I will let ya have the last pot, then we can go to votes.

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Maverick_6

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@sirfizzwhizz: Alright. Not sure exactly when. But I'll get an argument up. Even if it takes a while to everything assemble everything.

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#28  Edited By Maverick_6

@sirfizzwhizz:

Im not sure why T-800 cannot simply shoot him should he try that. Its not that hard to counter, and kids in multiplayer games react to that maneuver just fine :)

The point isn't to say that maneuver would wreck the terminator. Actually, I don't doubt the terminator would just shoot him out of the air with that maneuver, it's just to show how nimble they are.

You'd actually be surprised at some people literally dodging bullets online lol. It's like playing quake.

Seems vague to me. How can it track a threat he knows nothing about? Sounds like game play magic more than a actual thing.

I well, definitely believe it. I doubt it will mark the terminator specifically. It's more, going to mark him and anything close to him that happens to be in it's radius. And they do visibly display using this tech and similiar tech. Particularly where they dedicate an entire scene to just wallhacking people.

Loading Video...

This one is much more advanced and reads heart rates, though it requires more setup and for you to manually tag them. The threat grenade would pretty much be much more indiscriminate, marking the terminator and other people near by. I really don't see how the terminator would be immune to it. It'd be something akin to a drone, which like I said, it does tag.

Even going as far to not just highlight people but their exos as well. Very noticeable and useful when you have a guy clad in 6 and 1/2 ft tall armor trying to mow you down with an anti-craft minigun on his arm,all of which it highlights. It highlights people, it highlights their weapons. Advanced Warfare'sis relatively advanced and more "different" from others.

Not true. As showed above the T-800 tank a anti tank rocket to the back, and T-800s tank weapons with more punch than a 50 Cal anyway in the form of the Plasma Guns that make .50 Cals obsolete as weapons. The Plasma Guns pierce tank armor fine, and hit with enough kinetic force to shatter solid concrete columns, something a .50 Cal would actually not be able to do on the first shot.

From my understanding, terminator actually has many different kinds of plasma weapons. The larger ones are superior to .50 cals, which more just tear through concrete like a knife rather than shatter it like a hammer.

And another thing is that is not an anti-tank rocket. It is an HE or HE Fragmenting with a wide explosive radius. A challenger II tank got shot with 70 RPGs without any sign of significant damage. It is even fully operational after the incident. However, something like a HEAT round is completely different. That will have a minuscule radius, but focus the blast into a bolt of copper. The explosion liquifies the copper and propels it as a stream at speeds of mach 25 when the RPG goes off. This requires a direct impact in order to work on a tank.

That? That is fragmenting/HE. Something more for squishy targets. Nobody wants to acknowledge the existance of the HEAT round (unless you are like HALO and do relative amounts of research on military weaponry) because it doesn't give those dramatic michael bay style explosions that people like to see.

When in fact when it comes to dealing damage to a singular target, it scatters the energy everywhere. While a fraction of the explosion actually hits while the rest is like "Derp Imma go this way."

Not that it isn't impressive because it is. But it's just "above a tank" impressive.

Four scans of the same thing. T-800s able to look at just about anything, and figure out from a quick scan what it is capable of, what it is, or used for. One quick scan of your guy will reveal all is needed and what counters to use against him. Im not sure why T-800, a competent one anyway, will allow itself in a position to be attacked by said weapon.

It's pretty smart, and calculating. Makes it difficult if not impossible for any normal human to fight it. But our soldier is smart and has an arsenal of tools of his own to give information and high amounts of firepower.

Well, one Plasma Shot is all its going to take. with Grenade Launcher firing at him too, he will not last long.

Except, these aren't very good long range weapons. Unlike the MORS or something like the sniper they have that fires 20mm cannon rounds. (Though I prefer the MORS for this matchup.)

This was a bad showing. First off, i am unsure where your getting a small car like that weighing close to 2.5 tons. If anything its barely 1 ton. Second this fight showed one of your characters in the exo suit getting beat up and overpowered by a normal human. Whats that about?!

That vehicle is more than a ton. The extra ".5" however exagerratting. But the thing is a large offroad vehicle that could easily be 3500-4000 lbs.

This is one of those moments that irks, especially when I can just pull strength feats left and right from these videos.

Not going to make anyone scroll back up to go see it.

Starts at 17:35 where he rips off a steel gate with just his hands, using the supposedly weaker specialist exo.

21:18 The two both shove a rather large van forward against the wheels (as in, to the side. Using sheer strength with the wheels resisting.Not pushing a van and letting the wheels do the work.) After that, he just sparta kicks the thing and shoves it aside.

A few seconds earlier than that before being rammed, he ripped a car door off.

Loading Video...

The game even goes out of it's way to show that a normal person cannot stand up to someone in an assault exo. (Which he wasn't using for that mission.)

"Heh. He's got the Assault Exo. Poor Bastards don't stand a chance."

Loading Video...

This version would of course, logically be nerfed because they're just sparring.

When they aren't well....

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

So, the fact that he was capable of fighting some guy who throughout the entirity of the story is casually one shotting humans with a single casual hit is amazing. Not one shot KO, I mean one punch death.

Exo users are however lightweight, so I suppose he could feasibly throw her around. Exos are light enough to jump 20 feet air and even swim, but that overpowering part was baffling.

I would say in summary either Charles atlas superpowers to the max, or simple PIS.

Now, I'm not saying this Exo soldier would be wanting to go hand to hand with a comicbook composite terminator, but I'm just trying to display essentially that scene was pretty stupid in my opinion.

We don't really need to go over how strong the terminator is because, well, we all already know. I sincerely doubt in most scenarios that this would come down to close combat.

Im not convince he can cloak from its sensors. With that in mind, T-800 is able to keep tabs, and out maneuver him.

It cloaks from thermals just fine. X-Rays I'm honestly not too sure about since to my knowledge they aren't encountered. However, CoD has see through wall stuff pretty prominently. Yet, they still defeat it.

Go to scene right after, and the character mentions "Sync your visor to my signature." Meaning it would only allow a certain frequency of EM radiation through to detect it.

Looking back now, I think the terminator can spot him, but it's generally difficult. I'll retract my statement, it'll make it harder to find him, but not impossible. That and the cloak has limited charge.

Still, it's an advantage none the less.

Considering the map, its not useful using your MORS anyway. Too many obstacles. In a open field you have a point, here it is unwieldy, and T-800 will simply stay out of sight with his superior tracking abilities, make his way around, and make this more of a close range fire fight where he will win.

Except, if the soldier can track him, he will just keep wallhacking the terminator to death. Every time it would come near, he would just use his superior maneuverability to retreat to somewhere more to his advantage. And even if the cloak doesn't work, as long as he stays maneuvrable and stays away, seeing the terminator is really all he needs to win in the end. Very few objects in a city could feasibly provide cover against a .50 cal. A Plasma rifle and a MORS are more or less is gonna tear through anything. Difference is, the Grenade launcher isn't doing much to someone on a rooftop who is constantly above you and tanks larger scale explosions consistently.

And well, even then, the genade launcher becomes even less useful if they equip a trophy system, and use it to deflect grenades tossed at them.

The plasma weapon is the terminator's greatest threat, capable of one shooting the exosoldier most likely if it hits close up. However, if he can just keep wall hacking and outmaneuvring him, it's power becomes rather moot.

Now....

Time for votes. Been a good debate.

Up to everyone else who they decide wins.

@bullet_to_the_head

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sirfizzwhizz

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#29  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@maverick_6: You tagged pretty much everyone I would have, good debate.

Oh and put Vote somehow in the title.

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Maverick_6

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Yup. Also thanks for being civil.

Yeah I put voting but I had to change the words up.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

Yup. Also thanks for being civil.

Yeah I put voting but I had to change the words up.

Looks good to me.

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@sirfizzwhizz:

(Added two images that failed to show up)

Maybe you should tag a few people? People aren't even breathing in the direction of this thread lol.

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Wolfrazer

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#34  Edited By Wolfrazer

@maverick_6: @sirfizzwhizz: Just one thing, on the T-888 it wasn't taken out by a .50 cal solely, it was shot in the right eye which the shot just merely cracked the skull. It then tanked several landmines and was only stopped after getting a point blank .50 cal shot in the head after it had been submerged into thick tar.

But anyway, I'm gonna go with Fizz.

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@wolfrazer: I still have not seen the Sarah Conner chronicles, but am going to see Genisys tomorrow. Yay.

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@sirfizzwhizz: I'm probably gonna see it sometime, you should def watch the SCC it's pretty good imo. T-888s are pretty sweet.

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Vote goes to the terminator.

Good fight though, but the Plasma Rifle can one shot him if he makes a mistake. Still, the soldier can also win. I just see this version of the terminator winning more.

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#38  Edited By Maverick_6

@sirfizzwhizz: Even if this CaV is lost.

Saw Genysis. It seems the producers really like the .50 cal too.

Just sayin' lol.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@maverick_6: not really a good point though.

If you remeber the movie a few things stick out.

1) that specific .50 cal did I not exist in that time period.

2) T-800 was making Time Machines, magnetic boxing gauntlets from trash, magnetic shot gun rounds, and had detail counters to T-1000, and T-3000. You think that was a normal bullet? I don't. More Prep feats than anything. If it was that easy Kyle Reese done it in T1 lol.

3) all other T-800 and T-850 feats outweigh what was shown there in durability.

But yes, I am sure it will be brought up as a low ball counter in the future.

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#40  Edited By Wolfrazer

@sirfizzwhizz: How would T1 Kyle get his hands on a .50 cal weapon? Especially when he didn't really have any time.

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@sirfizzwhizz: They mentioned that they weren't using normal bullets, iirc.

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#42  Edited By mickey-mouse

@sirfizzwhizz: @maverick_6:

Vote for Fizz. Came down to durability and the Terminator has too much of it.

While your character is easy above peak human with such feats, there is a hole in the argument. The Exoskeleton does not block the shrapnel or the heat damage from such explosions. Being peppered with debrie of glass, metal, ect from a explosive blast will have a lasting effect, and as you said yourself does daze your character.

Explosive damage is getting really underrated on this site to a large degree.

As for explosives, well, there was logically shrapnel incorporated. The wall blew up in a guy's face, which would send concrete. A van exploded. With how modern gear is made, I suspect these guys have very next gen shrapnel protection.

You suspect or know they have next gen sharpnel protection? Didn't seem very convincing. And when it comes to shrapnel, I see writers, movie makers, and others ignore it all the time. But, we have to included these things into battlboard logic. Honestly Sirfizzhwizz should have pressed this point a lot more.

It cloaks from thermals just fine. X-Rays I'm honestly not too sure about since to my knowledge they aren't encountered. However, CoD has see through wall stuff pretty prominently. Yet, they still defeat it.

Seems like you were not clear on X-Rays therefore I would have to assume the Terminator can track your guy just fine.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@wolfrazer: as we seen in Genisys, Reed and John discuss things before he time travels back. I have no clue why John would not be like "get a .50 cal, it's all you need." Instead Reese states "with these weapons, I don't know." To Sarah.

Add to that there was no real 50 cal Sniper rifle back then either. Sounds more like T-800 special prep shenanigans.

@cpt_facepuncher: I have to re watch to catch that.

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Wolfrazer

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#44  Edited By Wolfrazer

@sirfizzwhizz: /Shrug

True, although the .50 cal sniper was in 1984. Though I don't see it likely that Reese would have been able to get one considering he had to find Sarah and make sure the 800 didn't get her, between that, the 800 and the cops there wasn't really time to get one.

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sirfizzwhizz

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#45  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@wolfrazer: Actually your right. The Sniper Rilfe was design in 1980, but did not become a reality for service members till 1984. However the model used in the movie was the modern day version and not the original version of that gun. That was the the nitpick people had with that feat. Maybe simple oversight, on props department.

Still those bullets did not look like normal .50 cal one I had seen.

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Wolfrazer

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#46  Edited By Wolfrazer

@sirfizzwhizz: On a note though however, could you really take it as a low showing? This is a different timeline(yet again!) and the original T-800 and as shown in T1, the T-800 was damaged by Kyle Reese using an Ithaca shotgun when he hit the eye. Abit yeah I know the eye was the eye, even still however. You also had the 800 get his arm damaged when he crashed the police car.

Plus there's also the fact, the 800 in G didn't have a secondary system to re-route power unlike the 800 in T2 which would be the same for T1.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@sirfizzwhizz: On a note though however, could you really take it as a low showing? This is a different timeline(yet again!) and the original T-800 and as shown in T1, the T-800 was damaged by Kyle Reese using an Ithaca shotgun when he hit the eye. Abit yeah I know the eye was the eye, even still however. You also had the 800 get his arm damaged when he crashed the police car.

Plus there's also the fact, the 800 in G didn't have a secondary system to re-route power unlike the 800 in T2 which would be the same for T1.

Good points actually.

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Fallingcliffs

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This is a fun read.

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Maverick_6

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@sirfizzwhizz: On a note though however, could you really take it as a low showing? This is a different timeline(yet again!) and the original T-800 and as shown in T1, the T-800 was damaged by Kyle Reese using an Ithaca shotgun when he hit the eye. Abit yeah I know the eye was the eye, even still however. You also had the 800 get his arm damaged when he crashed the police car.

Plus there's also the fact, the 800 in G didn't have a secondary system to re-route power unlike the 800 in T2 which would be the same for T1.

@maverick_6: not really a good point though.

If you remeber the movie a few things stick out.

1) that specific .50 cal did I not exist in that time period.

2) T-800 was making Time Machines, magnetic boxing gauntlets from trash, magnetic shot gun rounds, and had detail counters to T-1000, and T-3000. You think that was a normal bullet? I don't. More Prep feats than anything. If it was that easy Kyle Reese done it in T1 lol.

3) all other T-800 and T-850 feats outweigh what was shown there in durability.

But yes, I am sure it will be brought up as a low ball counter in the future.

1. True. I looked it up after the movie and it did make me think about where he got it. Most likely, the terminator made it. I man really, why not? Considering it takes arnielike 10 seconds to make something to disrupt the T-3000 from some crap he ripped out of a megaphone.

2. The .50 cal has many abnormal bullets. Like MK211 Raufass

3. Well, to be fair, you may or may not be surprised by the quantifiable amounts of force this gun hits with. I'll put it side by side with a bunch of other weapons to give you a bit of a sense of scale for the muzzle energy.

M16A2- 1,764 j or 1302 lbs of force

Ak-47- 1991 j or 1469 lbs of force

Desert Eagle- Varies between 1965 j to 2400 j or between 1449 and around 1800 lbs of force. (Deagles are heavy guns and can weigh as much as an assault rifle.)

Shotgun slugs in general, such as from the Remington Model 1100 used at the beginning of the movie 4200 joules or 3,100 ft-lbs

Now, for the muzzle energy of the M28A1 .50 Cal.

It equals out to roughly between 14-18 kilojoules of energy. 10,000-15,000 ft lbs of force. Or 5 tons at it 's lowest and it's highest, 7.5 tons at the muzzle.

That's means a potential 14x more potent than a typical AR15. Now, watching the movie, i was always pretty skeptical of the terminator being hurt by shotgun slugs or buckshot. It was always weird from my perspective because that equals roughly a ton and a half, specially considering energies the (albiet softer) human body puts out.

So at the very least, the terminator isn't like wonder woman where she gets punched through skyscrapers at a time but still needs to block pistol rounds. At least the .50 cal is a legitimate anti-material weapon capable of shooting through practically any improvised cover. Something you could hunt Pre-WW2 tanks when armor becomes way too thick.

If you want rounds that look similiar, there are these from different variation of the .50 cal (Which they might have based it off)

No Caption Provided

These rounds are 25 x 59 grenades (Which would equal to something of roughly a .9 Caliber weapon) that can be used with this specific model of weapon, but this model of gun is even further along, indicating to me the terminator prolly made it. Like I said in the argument, I'd argue fragmenting type rounds would be useless, and it would have to use a shaped charge configuration to drive a more powerful armor piercing projectile.

The muzzle energies of this can be pretty serious with the right construction. Talking at the very least double the muzzle energy of a typical .50 cal or higher without even increasing it's recoil. (Which is mitigated by the reciprocating barrel and muzzle breaks.)

Also worth of mention is the MK211 Rafauss round, which is a .50 cal exclusive round that burns into it's targets to weaken it, plows into it and then detonates inside, though it's weaker.

All these energies are however, assumed point blank at the muzzle.

@lukehero:

Vote for Fizz. Came down to durability and the Terminator has too much of it.

I still don't truthfully think the terminator too durable for the MORS, but I have to admit that it's immune to damn near everything else.

Explosive damage is getting really underrated on this site to a large degree.

Explosive damage is very underrated because of honestly how over saturated we are in general with it. Explosions are represented as pushing people away when they in fact, tend to tear people limb from limb, depending on the type. Though, there are, to some degree of realism, different types of explosions.

Deflagration type explosions tend to be more "push" type explosions. These types of explosions release huge blast waves with enourmous amounts of fire, but the blast waves travel slower. A deflagration type explosion is used commonly in gunpowder and happens whenever fuel of any kind explodes. Weapons based off this are "Fuel Air" explosives, or thermobaric rounds that use this mixed with normal explosives. However, these types of explosives are highly ineffective against armor.

It's basically the typical flashy type of explosion you see basically freaking everywhere.

A detonation type of explosion is a true explosion. It is made of something like TNT, RDX, C4/Plastic explosives or HMX. These release blast waves that are supersonic, and are horrible for propelling things accurately, like bullets, but are great for fragmentation. The distance causes it to drop off quickly but effects are devastating towards harder objects often times. Can be used to breach bunkers, exploit flaws in structures and stuff like that.

You suspect or know they have next gen sharpnel protection? Didn't seem very convincing. And when it comes to shrapnel, I see writers, movie makers, and others ignore it all the time. But, we have to included these things into battlboard logic. Honestly Sirfizzhwizz should have pressed this point a lot more.

But like I said, it's used so much, it's just not very impressive anymore. It's just used to try and make a character look badass of course.

But it surprises me greatly in CoD because of the way explosions are presented (killing people instantly and causing shellshock)..is happens TWICE in very plain view where the creators delbieratel take time to script these events in into scenes show it is deliberate and they are capable of being really damn durable. It's like they canonized the flak jacket perk into your chracter.

However, my points are pretty irrelevant in that we are fundamentally debating fiction. No author has to (or should be forced to) take any of this into account.

The fact that thSeems like you were not clear on X-Rays therefore I would have to assume the Terminator can track your guy just fine

Yeah. I will admit I am not clear on the X-Rays. Though, logically, X-Rays have a lot of faults that would make it difficult to actually use effectively in an environment like this. Dirt is soft and easily penetrated, unlike steel and concrete. If bone stops it, one can imagine that materials that it actually interacts with an are absorbed by, like most metals (the densest like lead and tungsten) being the best. It goes through 10 feet of dirt, yeah. But a guy who is several tens of stories up through hundreds of feet of steel, concrete, drywall and etc....

I tested it out, and thermals don't work on the cloak.

However...

I appreciate the criticism and welcome it. I'm not asking for a rematch or anything in this. The whole point of this was mostly publicity, to try to get a tad more variety on the forum with trying for this new character.

As well as to actually try to get people on the battle forums to think differently because (some) people here are pretty stupid and the general logic here makes sense sometimes for some things, but people apply "battle forum logic" to subjects it shouldn't go. Guys are right about some things but way off on other things, like actually quantifying or having some sort of idea of what it takes to accomplish a feat. Or lowballing characters. Confusing Heat resistance with toughness and urability, or confusing toughness with hardeness.

OR general, people "cherry picking" feats and choosing all of the best feats while ignoring lesser showings, to make their characters out to be gods if there are enough people behind them. (*Cough* Vineforce Flash *Cugh cough*)

Yayadayayada. Though, people are very adamant in changing the way they think, and considering a lot of people don't even breath in the direction of this thread, I'd say it didn't really work.

Though, it's fun for me to discuss, and I apologize in advance if I come across as sounding like some know-it-all or whatever, but the information isn't just for you, but for people in general.

Cheers.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@maverick_6: That was pretty good research, and the shape charge ammo would make sense.