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#1 Edited by Pope052 (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos & Silver Surfer (Nighthunder):

VS

Goku & Vegeta (Pope052):

Rules:

Thanos & Silver Surfer:

  • Any feats are permitted.
  • No uses of PIS, ignoring Inconsistency, and no uses of filler to advance/degrade the character(s).
  • No telepathy or manipulating Goku and Vegeta in any way for the time being (this rule may change).
  • No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
  • No Speed-Blitzing.
  • Morals Off.
  • Win by Death, or KO.

Goku & Vegeta:

  • End of DBZ Versions.
  • Any feats are permitted from DB, DBZ & DBGT Anime/Manga. (No Movie Feats, BOTG is acceptable but no use of Super Saiyan God).
  • No uses of PIS, ignoring inconsistency, and no uses of filler to advance/degrade the character(s).
  • SSJ4 Gogeta is not permitted for the time being (this rule may change).
  • Access to all Super Saiyan forms except SSJ God for Goku.
  • No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
  • No Speed-Blitzing.
  • Morals Off.
  • Win by Death, or KO.

Battlefield: Earth (Abandoned + Indestructible):

Challenge a Viner:

  • Give at least one reason for a vote.
  • Do not post anything that could start an argument.
  • Do not post irrelevant content (Music, Death-Battle, Videos, etc).
  • Do not correct either of us on mistakes. It isn't needed nor wanted, but if you must, send us a P.M.
  • Voting System is on the debater, not necessarily the characters.
  • Voting shall be opened when the debate has been agreed finished by both participants, if you'd like either of us to call out your name when the voting opens, just ask.

May the best man win..

#2 Posted by Pope052 (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder

Here we are, i'll make a post as soon as I get time to do so tomorrow. In the meantime, would you mind going first? I'd appreciate it.

#3 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

:| ... Good luck...? I have a feeling this is way out of Goku and Vegeta's league.

#4 Edited by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

這應該是不錯的

#5 Edited by SheenLantern (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

:| ... Good luck...? I have a feeling this is way out of Goku and Vegeta's league.

Eh, maximum power SSJ4 with (seemingly) no restriction on becoming Gogeta? I'd say they have at least a shot.

#6 Posted by GhostRavage (8962 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Edited by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

這應該是不錯的

I didn't know you spoke Chinese :O Also, I think you owe Dondave some money.

#8 Posted by nando1313 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver surfer dominates thanos sits back and watches

#9 Posted by Jmarshmallow (7406 posts) - - Show Bio

As SheenLantern put so eloquently, this should be good!

Good luck to the both of you!

Jmarshmallow

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#10 Posted by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@nando1313: this is a Cav , between 2 debaters , no comments like that please

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#11 Posted by TheTruthIII (845 posts) - - Show Bio

If Surfer is having trouble, he could always send for Galactus, who would turn Goku into ash and Vegeta into nothing. Otherwise, Surfer&Thanos if the full extent of Power Cosmic is allowed (black holes, supernovas, ect)

#12 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (10090 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruthiii: This is a CaV, please do not post who you think would win. This is between 2 debaters, no one else.

#13 Posted by FlashGreaterSignEveryone (986 posts) - - Show Bio

is DBZ logic allowed? will SS and Thanos wait 10 hours for them to go Super saiyan?

#14 Edited by Marshall_Long (2053 posts) - - Show Bio

Good Luck to both

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#15 Posted by Your_Friendly_Azn (314 posts) - - Show Bio

*grabs popcorn*

#16 Posted by OreoAssassin (5015 posts) - - Show Bio

*eyes widen* Oh $hit this is gonna be good!

#17 Posted by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight.

#18 Posted by xlab3000 (3282 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by ComicStooge (12906 posts) - - Show Bio

If debated right, either Thanos or Silver Surfer could solo.

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#20 Posted by Your_Friendly_Azn (314 posts) - - Show Bio

IF debated right, either Thanos or Silver Surfer could solo.

Big if

#21 Posted by ComicStooge (12906 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by HyperViper97 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Marking so I can follow this

#23 Posted by nickzambuto (13706 posts) - - Show Bio

If Surfer is having trouble, he could always send for Galactus, who would turn Goku into ash and Vegeta into nothing. Otherwise, Surfer&Thanos if the full extent of Power Cosmic is allowed (black holes, supernovas, ect)

You're kidding me right?

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#25 Edited by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait wait wait , can i use all version of thanos and SS? 616 don't have all that much feats i like, @pope052

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#26 Posted by Mattersuit (4280 posts) - - Show Bio

#27 Edited by Pope052 (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder:

Alright, no problem. Use the feats you want. I'll wait for you to make your first opening post.

#28 Posted by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Kay , I'll have a opening post up later perhaps.

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#29 Posted by Pope052 (3286 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17523 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by DarkRaiden (7359 posts) - - Show Bio

Woah @nighthunder going AGAINST anime characters? 0_o

Also I'm now curious as to what alternate versions he wants to use....

#32 Posted by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: you realize im the bggest thanos fanboy on the site right?

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#33 Edited by DarkRaiden (7359 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: you realize im the bggest thanos fanboy on the site right?

Nope I did not know that at all somehow.

#34 Posted by reikai (4245 posts) - - Show Bio

#35 Posted by silkyballfro94 (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!

#36 Edited by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: yup , anybody that pimpslaps hulk earns my fanboyism.

Anyway , lets get this started.

Alright , so first off, knowing goku and vegeta, they'll immediately start trying to pound down on their opponents. Goku and vegeta will be able to sense thanos and Sil surfur's powerlevel, meaning, from the beginning, they'll go all out. However i doubt they'll get very far seeing both thanos and silver surfur have planet+ ++ durability

the 3rd one , thanos just smiles after he takes hits from thor who had a powergem

and for SS:

And while goku and maybe vegeta using a full force blast could K.O surfur , that would leave him drained and leave him more open to thanos's destruction. The same goes for their their punches and kicks, while they could do some damage using full powersblows , that'd leave them drained.

So, after they take The saiyan's initial assault , Thanos and SS will well, destroy.

First off, I know my goku and vegeta calcs (( as shown in my earlier debates )) , Their durability at max is multiple planets++++, Either thanos or silver surfur could easily bypass that

1. Blast has the force of a nucular explosion

2.Surfer generates billions of terawatts of power

3. Nearly kills all the avengers with a WARNING shot.

4-6. Blast so strong , it creats a black hole

7-8. Destroys Mephistos demon

As shown , Silver surfur should easily bypass their durability

Same for thanos

oh yeah, he also defeats Galactu's most powerful herald, The fallen one, in one blast

And while neither would be able to one-shot them, Vegeta and goku will both be worn down quickly after having to use their full power to even try and match them.

So to summerize

  • In order to bypass my teams Defenses , each of theirs blasts have to be at least planet+
  • Both goku and vegeta will end up tiring quickly thanks to having to use full power from the beginning
  • In order to even bypass thanos's shields, you'll have to match the input of a nourished galactus
  • Once you're team tires, ( or before that ) , Thanos , or silver surfur will end up destroying them in a few hits.

I think this is good for a opening post, im not the best at it so heeey......

@pope052

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#37 Edited by xlab3000 (3282 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: where do you be getting the dbz memes

#38 Edited by ImBoredLetsDebate (496 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm curious. Why are Thanos and SS together? Goku and Vegeta are pretty evenly matched, power wise. SS and Thanos are on completely different levels, no? Doesn't that mean either SS or Thanos are too OP or too weak for Goku and/or Vegeta?

#39 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok Hold on, Is This End of GT Goku and Vegeta or End of Z Goku and Vegeta

#40 Edited by oceanmaster21 (8072 posts) - - Show Bio

this is gonna be good

#41 Posted by Iragexcudder (4924 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos and Surfer are on a whole different level of power..

#42 Posted by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Edited by ComicStooge (12906 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll have some things to say when this is over.

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#44 Posted by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Edited by Dewin50 (415 posts) - - Show Bio

#46 Posted by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by Pope052 (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder:

Don't worry, I got it. Sorry i'm taking long, I was busy for a while. I'm free now and i'll have my post up later on, within a few hours probably.

#48 Posted by NighThunder (4039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Edited by Pope052 (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder:

Alright, here it is:

First, i'll reply to your post.

Alright , so first off, knowing goku and vegeta, they'll immediately start trying to pound down on their opponents. Goku and vegeta will be able to sense thanos and Sil surfur's powerlevel, meaning, from the beginning, they'll go all out. However i doubt they'll get very far seeing both thanos and silver surfur have planet+ ++ durability
And while goku and maybe vegeta using a full force blast could K.O surfur , that would leave him drained and leave him more open to thanos's destruction. The same goes for their their punches and kicks, while they could do some damage using full powersblows , that'd leave them drained.
And while neither would be able to one-shot them, Vegeta and goku will both be worn down quickly after having to use their full power to even try and match them.
  • Both goku and vegeta will end up tiring quickly thanks to having to use full power from the beginning
  • Once you're team tires, ( or before that ) , Thanos , or silver surfur will end up destroying them in a few hits.

You've stated the same points so many times here. You seem to imply the idea that Goku & Vegeta are two fighters that would attack a person such as Galactus head on. They wouldn't and now i'll explain why:

Considering the conditions. Morals are disabled so Goku & Vegeta will be doing "out of character like actions

(Example: Goku will not fight fairly. He'll utterly dominate the opponent giving them no chance to take a breather, i'm not saying that Goku would utterly dominate Thanos & SS, I was just using that as an example).

Even ignoring the conditions, Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting (I know that you know this already, but i'm just pointing it out), when he senses either of the opponent's power, he's not going to pull off a foolish move by attacking head on.

He'll fight holding back and avoiding critical blows from either to see what their strong and weak points are, then utilize his techniques & skill to his advantage when he discovers their weak points.

And even Vegeta, he lets his anger & arrogance get the best of him at times. But when severely outmatched, (Bills, Broly), he knows that attacking them head on would be an idiotic decision.

Blast has the force of a nucular explosion

Is this supposed to mean something to the Saiyans? This isn't worth taking into consideration. A nuclear explosion is nothing to Goku nor Vegeta. A nuke cannot even destroy the moon while Dragon-Ball characters have been busting moons instantly with single blasts, with PL's as little as below 200.

So yeah, Nuclear Explosions <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Goku's/Vegeta's Durablity.

  • In order to even bypass thanos's shields, you'll have to match the input of a nourished galactus

Not necessarily as the Silver Surfer himself has bypassed Thanos' shields and damaged him with blasts. And the Silver Surfer < Galactus.

the 3rd one , thanos just smiles after he takes hits from thor who had a powergem

Either thanos or silver surfur could easily bypass that

Surfer generates billions of terawatts of power

Nearly kills all the avengers with a WARNING shot.

Blast so strong , it creats a black hole

Destroys Mephistos demon

oh yeah, he also defeats Galactu's most powerful herald, The fallen one, in one blast

These feats are very impressive and i'll concede to the fact that both Thanos & the Silver Surfer's durablity is far superior to Goku's. The energy projection is debatable, which i'll get onto when I get to that point in my actual post.

Alright, now finally it's Goku & Vegeta's time to shine:

(NOTICE: Vegeta will have much less feats than Goku, but it's safe to assume that they both attain the same attributes from each other, as most of the feats are much earlier in DBZ, and/or Dragon Ball.So Vegeta would obviously be stronger as it is EOZ for both, he should be able to do the same as Goku had presented in the feats i'll provide. Don't get me wrong though, Vegeta will still have solo feats, but Goku will have much more).

First of all, your post contained great scans & feats for both Thanos & the Silver Surfer's durability and energy projection. However, you've left out a crucial factor here, both in which Thanos & the Surfer are at a tremendous disadvantage.

And that aspect is of course...

Speed:

To begin, I realize that the Surfer possesses traverse speed (meaningless in combat). However neither Thanos nor the SS can even hope to contend with Goku & Vegeta in combat speed. (Unless of course, you can provide feats that suggest otherwise).

Now, to present my scans for their combat speed & an instance or two of traverse speed.

Combat Speed - Incalculable, but massively FTL++

Traverse Speed - Minimally FTL

Traverse Speed:

While this necessarily does not matter in an actual fight, I may as well give an instance or two displaying the traverse speed of Goku/Vegeta. And then i'll move onto combat speed (which really is the only important speed factor in a fight):

(NOTICE: Most if not all scans will appear from right to left):

Goku Travels Namek:

While Namek's size is unquantified, it is assumed the same size or larger than Earth (I've found no proof of Namek being equal to Earth, however it is asssumed that it is and without disproof, it is safe to assume that Namek is at least equal to Earth's size.

Nevertheless, Goku traverses from one side of Namek to the other in the time-span of less than or one second. Shonen Jump article will be included for proof of him being on the opposite side:

Vegeta & Nappa travel to the Z Fighters:

While the locations and distance of how far away Vegeta & Nappa were from the Z Fighters, it's highly assumable that they were a considerable distance away, considering the location differences (Vegeta/Nappa were in a city, Z Fighters were in a mountainous, land area).

Alright, that's enough with traverse speed. Now onto the type of speed that is the main factor of speed in a fight:

Combat Speed:

Laser Dodging:

Catching a Dragon-Ball:

(Dragon-Balls shoot out of orbit, and then end up in various places of Earth, all in a span of seconds. This feat alone could be argued that Goku as a Kid was already FTL, and he likely was).

Superior Reaction/Senses:

Silver Surfer does get tagged on a regular basis (as far as i'm aware), by the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and other beings that do not possess the kind of combat speed even close to Goku & Vegeta.

Faster than Lightning:

Fights are completely invisible:

Dodges Tien's Solar Flare Attack (FTL):

Side-Stepping FTL Energy Beams:

Also, this feat comes from Raditz. A Saiyan with a weak power level, which just makes it more impressive.

And to prove that the Beams are Faster than Light...

Like I stated above, the Dragon-Ball characters have been busting moons with power levels as low as 100. Which will be my next point, both Piccolo & Roshi bust the moon in less than a second, the moon explodes instantly from the impact of each blast. Busting the moons is an energy beam speed, and destructive capability feat in one:

Phasing through attacks, (Coming from FTL Characters):

As well as phasing through the attacks, Goku also travels so fast behind Jeice and Burter that no one even notices that he had moved from one position to the next:

Dodging at undeniably fast Speeds:

To make this feat even more substantial, the attacks came from two opponents at once:

So yeah.. Goku and Vegeta don't have to worry about getting hit by Thanos or the Silver Surfer.

That should be it for now, i'll make another post concerning Goku and Vegeta's other attributes tomorrow. This is all I can fit in tonight, feel free to reply to me or wait until I make my next post, it's up to you.

@nighthunder

#50 Edited by Your_Friendly_Azn (314 posts) - - Show Bio

*hype intensifies*