#1 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Veitha - Magik, Black Alice and Nico Minoru

Team ComicStooge - The Shade, Dr Doom and Weather Wizard

Rules

- Pre-reboot versions of all DC characters

- Morals off

- No prep for either side

- Dr Doom cannot siphon powers

- Combatants start 50 metres apart

- Nico can use her older spells

- The fight is at dusk

Location

Red - Team Veitha

Blue - Team ComicStooge

#2 Posted by dondave (39094 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

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#3 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha Assuming no limbo-BFR for Magik?

#4 Posted by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: oh, so I can go to Limbo? Fine. You can start, I'm a bit busy with other tourneys, it's better if you go first :)

#6 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@comicstooge: oh, so I can go to Limbo? Fine. You can start, I'm a bit busy with other tourneys, it's better if you go first :)

Sure.

And I'm sorry to keep you waiting, but something is wrong with my computer right now, so I can't start.

I should be able to start tomorrow morning, though. :)

#7 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, first thing's first, my main player in this will of course be the Shade.

He can create large, powerful shields with relative ease, regardless of time of day:

These shadow shields are combined with the arcane magic and are nigh-impenetrable, impenetrable from magical attacks, such as those of Dr Fate and Zatanna. He could easily make this shields on a smaller scale.

Granted, I suppose you could write this off as hyperbole, but no heroes are ever seen breaking through his shields. Dr Fate has even further commented on the Shade's power, comparing it to that of the Spectre:

Once again, I know this could be hyperbole, but for Fate to even make such a claim, the Shade must be VERY powerful.

Regardless, this is something that can't be disputed. The Shade can cover an entire planet in his shadow:

He can create a practically endless army of shadow creatures to fight for him, these include but are not limited to: Giant gargoyles, snakes, tendrils and ghouls

The Shade can tank the full power of Starman's staff point-blank at remain practically unharmed, smiling and only stating it "hurt":

His intangibility will also prove helpful:

He can easily BFR a member of your team into the Dark Dimension, a nigh inescapable dimension of pure darkness, from which they won't be able to escape unless they happen to be high class, dimensional teleporters:

Shade can effortlessly teleport himself and others through dimensions, as well:

He's also been shown to do short range teleportation:

All things considered, Shade is a ridiculously difficult character to combat against, given the range, versatility and scope of his powers.

Another powerful player on my team is Dr Doom.

Dr Doom has some very powerful, technology based shields:

Basically, they're more powerful then Sue Storm's shields, Iron Man's blasts can't even damage them and they survived a brush wit the Beyonder

It's also worth noting his armor is durable as well, being able to tank the combined explosion of two missiles:

Doom can open dimensional portals into Limbo:

His magic prowess is so advanced he's considered worthy to be a candidate for Sorcerer Supreme:

Not only that, his armor can help him analyze their techniques and skills. He literally learns new spells and such while fighting. Doom's sensors allow him to react to multiple mages, who were all quite skilled in magic themselves, and defeat them. Doom was the second to last man standing, the other being Dr Strange.

He also learned magic from Morgan Morgan Le Fay, a very powerful mystic in her own right.

Doom has a teleporter of his own, within his standard armor:

He has plenty of other nifty little things to in armor to, such as a highly potent sleeping gas attack that can knock out the entire Fantastic 4 and Bruce Banner, a force-field projector that can stop hold the likes of Hulk, a vortex machine etc

Doom can disable enemies such as Colossus with just a touch:

Doom has some powerful energy blasts, too. He can destroy a Sentinel in one blast and can KO Magus and Warlock.

Through Doom's combination of massive intelligence, vast magical prowess, powerful shields and various inventions built into his standard suit of armor that can incapacitate or KO his opponents he's going to cause headaches for his your team.

Least of all is Weather Wizard.

The most dangerous thing about Weather Wizard is his ability to create a tornado inside an enemy's belly, popping them like a balloon (sorry for the cruel analogue, but that's basically what it does):

He can create massive amounts of heat which can have very nasty effects on people (I'll let the scan explain):

He can bring down bolts of lightning and he's fast enough to react to the Flash and the climate protects him from harm (the second scan is out of order, I'm just giving you another example):

He's very precise with his winds and he can even create massive tornadoes, if he were to amplify Doom's own vortex machine using his powers, the effects would be catastrophic:

He can also lower temperatures to the point were he could freeze opponents.

Steal the wand at your own peril, should anyone on your team try to do this, it won't work:

Mark also controls the Earth's magnetic fields (messing with his opponents polarity), put various other types of storms inside people's bellies, as well as create large explosions and he can also catch lightning, and such (assuming anyone on your team can produce magical lightning or tries to redirect it at him):

In short, Weather Wizard has multiple number of ways to put your team down for the count.

To sum up:

- The Shade can engulf the whole area in darkness, assuming your team doesn't find someway to put him down, which might not occur due to his immortality, intangibility, teleportation and the fact that he'll be spawning a large number of sentient shadow creatures to fight for him.

- The Dark Dimension is far less accessible then Limbo, which Doom can open a portal to.

- BFR for Magik isn't an option unless Doom is KO'd or Killed

- Shade cannot be BFRed regardless

- Doom's various weapons installed into his armor could KO or Incapacitate a member or members of you team

- Doom's vast intelligence and magical knowledge could allow him to figure out your team's spells and such, not to mention his considerable magical prowess and sensors should allow to at the very least hold his own against any member of your team. His shields will also be difficult to break.

- Weather Wizard is ridiculously versatile and very powerful and could potentially one-shot a member or members of your team, depending on their durability

@veitha your turn! (When you're ready, of course)

#8 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: sorry but I didn't get your tag hahaha

The Shade is going to be the easiest of your team to take out since his powers are magical-based.

I've got plenty ways to defeat him. First of all, Magik's soulsword. It can kill any magical being and it can also harm intangible beings, and Magik is also able to create force fields to contain intangible beings. My team can't be BFRed in his dark dimension, simply because Magik is higher teleporter than everyone in your team. She can move across dimensions and also time - I dunno any other teleporter who can move through time continuum. She's just the Ultimate teleporter.

But my tactic to fight against the Shade won't involve Illyana, but Black Alice. You said that the Shade was on the same level as the Spectre, well Black Alice can litterally become the Spectre and make him powerless.

She is going to do the same thing to the Shade. Since she can depower the Spectre, she will be easily able to depower him too and to steal all of his powers. Then she will use his own construct to tear him apart, or Illyana will just send him somewhere else.

So, at the start of the battle, The Shade is already KOed and Black Alice has got all of his powers.

Your most dangerous team is Weather Wizard, I think. Mainly because of his speed. But his powers are pretty much dependant on his Wand, aren't they? If so Magik will just teleport the Wand away from him, depowering him and making easy for Nico to defeat him with a "Hellfire" spell.

If his powers aren't completely reliant on the Wand, then I've got a double tactic. Black Alice will change into Black Adam, Shazam or Wonder Woman. Both of them have shown to be fast enough to fight against the Flash, so she should be able to tag him with her tiara or using her lazo before he could even react, and lightings or intense heat aren't something that can damage Wonder Woman.

Then Magik could always send everyone in Limbo. The scan you posted about Doctor Doom simply shows him being able to create a portal to Limbo, but I'm sure that he can't escape from them if Magik doesn't want him to. She can essentially lock the entire place, making impossible for people as strong as Doctor Strange to escape from it without being beaten by her.

If Weather Wizard isn't already dead thanks to Black Alice, here in Limbo he will definitelly be beaten. He can't manipulate the place's weather since Magik is the only Ruler of the Limbo, she can essentially depower him and empower both Nico and Black Alice.

This will leave Magik, Nico and BA against Doctor Doom. Magik could essentially solo here in Limbo. She's defeated Dormammu here and Amora the Enchantress, and her Soulsword would break every charm casted by Doom, and she can essentially warp reality here. Black Alice could also steal all of his powers or change into the Spectre to help Illyana. Nico can use her "Deconstruction" spell to easily disintegrate him, too.

I'll add scans soon.

Your turn :)

#9 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@comicstooge: sorry but I didn't get your tag hahaha

The Shade is going to be the easiest of your team to take out since his powers are magical-based.

I've got plenty ways to defeat him. First of all, Magik's soulsword. It can kill any magical being and it can also harm intangible beings, and Magik is also able to create force fields to contain intangible beings. My team can't be BFRed in his dark dimension, simply because Magik is higher teleporter than everyone in your team. She can move across dimensions and also time - I dunno any other teleporter who can move through time continuum. She's just the Ultimate teleporter.

But my tactic to fight against the Shade won't involve Illyana, but Black Alice. You said that the Shade was on the same level as the Spectre, well Black Alice can litterally become the Spectre and make him powerless.

She is going to do the same thing to the Shade. Since she can depower the Spectre, she will be easily able to depower him too and to steal all of his powers. Then she will use his own construct to tear him apart, or Illyana will just send him somewhere else.

So, at the start of the battle, The Shade is already KOed and Black Alice has got all of his powers.

Your most dangerous team is Weather Wizard, I think. Mainly because of his speed. But his powers are pretty much dependant on his Wand, aren't they? If so Magik will just teleport the Wand away from him, depowering him and making easy for Nico to defeat him with a "Hellfire" spell.

If his powers aren't completely reliant on the Wand, then I've got a double tactic. Black Alice will change into Black Adam, Shazam or Wonder Woman. Both of them have shown to be fast enough to fight against the Flash, so she should be able to tag him with her tiara or using her lazo before he could even react, and lightings or intense heat aren't something that can damage Wonder Woman.

Then Magik could always send everyone in Limbo. The scan you posted about Doctor Doom simply shows him being able to create a portal to Limbo, but I'm sure that he can't escape from them if Magik doesn't want him to. She can essentially lock the entire place, making impossible for people as strong as Doctor Strange to escape from it without being beaten by her.

If Weather Wizard isn't already dead thanks to Black Alice, here in Limbo he will definitelly be beaten. He can't manipulate the place's weather since Magik is the only Ruler of the Limbo, she can essentially depower him and empower both Nico and Black Alice.

This will leave Magik, Nico and BA against Doctor Doom. Magik could essentially solo here in Limbo. She's defeated Dormammu here and Amora the Enchantress, and her Soulsword would break every charm casted by Doom, and she can essentially warp reality here. Black Alice could also steal all of his powers or change into the Spectre to help Illyana. Nico can use her "Deconstruction" spell to easily disintegrate him, too.

I'll add scans soon.

Your turn :)

...And Mirror Master was too powerful for these ladies? O_o

Nah, I kid. It's fine.

By virtue of being shadow, that means standard counters for intangibility will be ineffective and even if the Shade was cut, he'd just reform.

Regardless, Doom has a certain ace in the hole known as the Ovoid Mind Transfer, this technique is not magic based and is some form of alien technique, he could easily possess Black Alice or any other member of your time and swap between them, all that is required is eye contact. And honestly, none of your team are high caliber geniuses and especially in the heat of battle, I doubt they could figure out how the technique works:

Even the massive willpower of the Thing can't stop Doom. Basically, he could turn your most powerful member of your team against you.

Doom also has a time machine inside his armor:

But regardless, incase you'd like to make a case that Doom lacks experience with any of your team's powers, he's had universal powers a few times (Galactus, Beyonder etc) and learned to control them in mere moments, not to mention his analytical ability and vast knowledge of magic is immense. Also, I think saying that Dr Doom would not be able to get in and out of Magik's realm unless he wanted to is a bit of a stretch, given his own impressive magical ability. And even if he wasn't, Magik's still human and the Ovoid Mind Transfer could very well still work on her, given the fact that it's essentially a battle of wills and Dr Doom's will is second to none.

Doom has experience in limbo himself (and in wielding Magik's Soulsword) , so he wouldn't be completely helpless:

I'd also like to point out, like you said, Weather Wizard is the fastest character here, he could easily tornado-stomach any or all of your team as soon as the fight begins, though it may not work on Black Alice. I don't see why having a thunderstorm in Illyana's stomach would be any less effectual in Limbo. Also, do you have evidence that Magik can teleport something so small directly out of someone's hand without having to grab onto it? Because if she had to grab it she'd be electrocuted.

And I doubt it's as simple as just 'deconstructing' Doom, given the fact he's survived a direct hit from Thanos wielding the Infinity Gauntet and got up with only superficial damage:

#10 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Very good so far.

#11 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@comicstooge: sorry man, but I didn't see you replied! (tags aren't working lol), I'll reply soon!

@thundergodswrath: thanks :)

No problem, it hasn't been working for me either. Take as long as you need.

#13 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: here I am. Well, Mirror Master is a bit overpowered, isn't he? Haha next time we will have to try Magik vs MirrorMaster :P

The Shade's intangibility can be countered by Magik since he's a magical being and since her powers work on intangible beings.

But then again, Shade is already out of the game thanks to Black Alice. She's stolen his powers and then killed him, that's easy to do for her.

Nico is the weak point in my team because she isn't very fast. But then Magik is very, very fast and the same can be said for Black Alice. The two of them together should be enough to disarm Weather Wizard. Magik has teleported projectiles before and she's even tele-dismembered people, teleporting a Wand away isn't goind to be a problem, even if it's very distant for her. He's going to be depowered and killed by a raging Wonder Woman at the start of the battle.

This would leave Doom alone against Magik and Black Alice and, if my team was fast enough to save her, Nico. As I said before, we will bring the battle to Limbo and here in Limbo Magik can resurrect and heal people.

So as soon as we arrive in Limbo, Magik will bring Nico back to life or heal her if she's been injuried.

Now, Magik will depower Doom using her Limbo powers to make sure that he doesn't use at least his magical powers.

Doom won't escape from Limbo easily. As I said, both Amanda Sefton, who has been a former ruler of the place, so she's far more expert than Doom about Limbo, and Doctor Strange, whose magical powers are as good as if not better than Doom's powers, couldn't get into it or escape from it if Magik didn't want them to do so. The problem with your scans of Doom weilding the Sword or going inside Limbo is that that time Magik wasn't the Ruler of Limbo and she was just a child, and this is the reason why she didn't keep the Sword with her. So those scans aren't going to help you.

Neither time manipulation is going to be of any help for you since Magik can teleport using her mutant power without needing any kind of device.

Now the only thing that could help you is mind-swapping, but it's not going to be easy to use.

First of all, BA can always access to the Spectre's powers and she could essentially obbliterate him using this kind of power, or she could use Shade's powers to blind him and to negate any kind of eye-to-eye contact. Using Wonder Woman's or Black Adam's abilities she should also be able to KO him before he could react.

Then Magik's mind isn't as easy to controll as the mind of the FF, and I don't think that he would like to know what is inside her mind. Xavier couldn't read or controll her mind, and Emma Frost needed her consent to go inside her mind, then Empath couldn't even try to manipulate her. She can also slain astral forms and go inside someone else's mind to kill him from the inside out like she did to Legion.

And her teleporting abilities will make difficult for Doom to look into her eyes.

Nico may be the only one that Doom could controll. But what happens to Doom's body while he is inside someone else mind?

Magik could BFR his body or travel inside Nico's mind to kill Doom astral form with the Soulsword, or she could just kill both Nico and Doom - she really doesn't care killing lol - and then she could always bring Nico back to life or heal her.

She's killed Dormammu recently lol I think that she could kill Doom very easily.

Your turn :) I think that we could start voting, then.

#14 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

@comicstooge: here I am. Well, Mirror Master is a bit overpowered, isn't he? Haha next time we will have to try Magik vs MirrorMaster :P

The Shade's intangibility can be countered by Magik since he's a magical being and since her powers work on intangible beings.

But then again, Shade is already out of the game thanks to Black Alice. She's stolen his powers and then killed him, that's easy to do for her.

Nico is the weak point in my team because she isn't very fast. But then Magik is very, very fast and the same can be said for Black Alice. The two of them together should be enough to disarm Weather Wizard. Magik has teleported projectiles before and she's even tele-dismembered people, teleporting a Wand away isn't goind to be a problem, even if it's very distant for her. He's going to be depowered and killed by a raging Wonder Woman at the start of the battle.

This would leave Doom alone against Magik and Black Alice and, if my team was fast enough to save her, Nico. As I said before, we will bring the battle to Limbo and here in Limbo Magik can resurrect and heal people.

So as soon as we arrive in Limbo, Magik will bring Nico back to life or heal her if she's been injuried.

Now, Magik will depower Doom using her Limbo powers to make sure that he doesn't use at least his magical powers.

Doom won't escape from Limbo easily. As I said, both Amanda Sefton, who has been a former ruler of the place, so she's far more expert than Doom about Limbo, and Doctor Strange, whose magical powers are as good as if not better than Doom's powers, couldn't get into it or escape from it if Magik didn't want them to do so. The problem with your scans of Doom weilding the Sword or going inside Limbo is that that time Magik wasn't the Ruler of Limbo and she was just a child, and this is the reason why she didn't keep the Sword with her. So those scans aren't going to help you.

Neither time manipulation is going to be of any help for you since Magik can teleport using her mutant power without needing any kind of device.

Now the only thing that could help you is mind-swapping, but it's not going to be easy to use.

First of all, BA can always access to the Spectre's powers and she could essentially obbliterate him using this kind of power, or she could use Shade's powers to blind him and to negate any kind of eye-to-eye contact. Using Wonder Woman's or Black Adam's abilities she should also be able to KO him before he could react.

Then Magik's mind isn't as easy to controll as the mind of the FF, and I don't think that he would like to know what is inside her mind. Xavier couldn't read or controll her mind, and Emma Frost needed her consent to go inside her mind, then Empath couldn't even try to manipulate her. She can also slain astral forms and go inside someone else's mind to kill him from the inside out like she did to Legion.

And her teleporting abilities will make difficult for Doom to look into her eyes.

Nico may be the only one that Doom could control. But what happens to Doom's body while he is inside someone else mind?

Magik could BFR his body or travel inside Nico's mind to kill Doom astral form with the Soulsword, or she could just kill both Nico and Doom - she really doesn't care killing lol - and then she could always bring Nico back to life or heal her.

She's killed Dormammu recently lol I think that she could kill Doom very easily.

Your turn :) I think that we could start voting, then.

Shade is completely immortal regardless, so even if Magik could hurt him, it won't do much else then slow him down, due to the fact he's completely immortal. And anyway, Shade's intangibility isn't like Shadowcat's were she just phases, Shade can essentially becomes shadow, meaning there's nothing to hit. You can't cut darkness, after all.

Black Alice and Magik and aren't that fast compared to who Weather Wizard normally reacts to, the Flash, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch. Especially given the fact that it's clear to me Black Alice lacks the experience and control to actually harness the abilities she takes from people:

Despite having the Spectre's nigh-limitless power, she resorts to magical constructs and punching, despite the fact that the real Spectre should have to trouble what-so-ever exorcising or attacking spirits.

Or when she has the abilities of Wonder Woman, including her ridiculously fast reaction time, Black Canary avoids her:

So no, I highly doubt Alice will be Insta-killing anyone with speed, given the fact she doesn't now how to properly utilize her abilities. Especially a guy who is protected by the weather and can defend from the Flash and a guy with insta-shields and a suit which can tank a blast from Thanos with little, in any, damage.

It's for that same reason she won't be reality warping away anyone on my team - she just doesn't have the knowledge or experience to actually do so, as evident from those scans of her with the Spectre's power.

I'd like to point out that Shade has never shown the ability to blind people, that's something Obsidian can do (a technique it took him time to learn, mind you), but not Shade:

Shade has never shown the abilities to meld with his shadow and go into the body of others, nor blind them. And he's had hundreds of years of experience of experience to learn how to do this in contrast to Black Alice's total and utter lack of experience with the Shade's powers.

Doom too, is immune to telepathy:

Regardless, those scans only proved that Magik could prevent telepaths from reading her mind, they weren't actively trying to telepathically assault her. Doom's mind transfer works differently. Doom's Ovoid Mind Transfer may involve him travelling psychically to a target, but the battle itself is a battle of willpower.

And no one on your team has the willpower to match Doom's.

He completely resists the touch of Purple Man using nothing but his own iron will:

Even Captain America couldn't resist Purple Man, but Victor could.

And anyway, who's to say Magik will be Doom's first target?

Dr Doom's strategy, as shown in these scans, is to possess the strongest member of the team first (he only left Sue's body because Reed disrupted her powers):

And in this case it would be Black Alice, given the fact that she can take the powers of magical beings and the two other members of your team happen to be magical.

Granted, I guess you could say that Doom did this because he'd been studying and fighting the Fantastic 4 for years, but he's still a tactical genius and very well versed in the magic arts, not to mention that his armor scans his opponents. It's not that hard to figure out, especially not for a guy like Dr Doom.

When Doom uses Ovoid Mind Transfer, the person he transfers with enters his body. And that will only end badly for them, as Doom's armor is both so advanced Reed Richard's can't escape from it and it's also magically cursed to drive them insane:

If they try and kill Doom's body, they'll just killing a teammate.

I really wouldn't count Doom out, even in Limbo, if Magik tries killing him with her Soulsword, she might just find herself in Doom's body. Doom could then teleport back right in front of Alice, go into Alice's body then depower Magik and Nico. He's a crafty bastard, after all.

Also, this is a bit of a miscellaneous thing, but even magical characters with the durability of Black Adam can be effected by brain scrambling (which is a device Doom has in his armor), I'm not sure if he'd get the chance to use it, but it's something to consider:

That's everything from me. I think we ought to let people start voting.

#15 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump! Vote guys!

#16 Posted by dondave (39094 posts) - - Show Bio

This was very hard for me to decide but @comicstooge gets my vote

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#17 Posted by Wardemon32 (5407 posts) - - Show Bio

comicstooge gets my vote. Veitha still did really good

#18 Edited by Killemall (18649 posts) - - Show Bio

ComicStooge gets my vote too, and sorry Veitha i think Magik could have been used better her powers are pretty hard for anyone to handle.

Btw worth nothing , Magik has the power to make her term more powerful than they are, she has turned Kitty pride into Dark Shadow Cat personality where Kitty was using hellfire and magic.

Intangibility would have never been a problem because Magik has ability to take away people ability, done tru magic. She has turned off Kitty phasing power just like that

She took away Colossus's power made him human.

She took away Colossus's demon form, purging someone of Cyttorak influence permanently is pretty impressive feat.

She took away powers from Dire Warths, an extradimensional being of pure magic. Granted this was done on limbo but current magik has the entirely of limbo within her.

Heck, with a bit up help she has able to fight and destroy Archenemy, the entity destroyed Surtur realm, made Dormammu run away from Dark Dimension fearing his life, did exactly the same to Mephisto in hades and many other splinter gods.

Heck with a team like Cosmicstooge, and Magik and Black Alice on your side, bloodlusted this should have been a stomped.

#19 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: @killemall: @wardemon32: thanks for voting!

Comicstooge 3 - Veitha 0

@killemall some of those scans are from X-Men Forever and aren't canon. I mentioned that she has defeated both Dormammu and thretened Mephisto and I provided scans, too. And I said that she can depower people, too. As for the fact that she knows has Limbo inside herself, it's not much relevant since we dunno what this means. Anyway, thanks for voting.

#20 Posted by homicidalmaniac (8586 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for Veitha

#21 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll vote for Veitha. It's extremely close! good debate =)

#22 Edited by Killemall (18649 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: Why is X-men Forever none canon, Marvel even went to far to specially request and hire Chris Claremont specifically from volume 2, its weird to think they would go thru that much trouble to revive a non-canon story arc. Not to mention Wolverine's death in X men forever has been mentioned later, as well as backed by bio. As is their first confrontation with Stranger.

#23 Posted by dondave (39094 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: Why is X-men Forever none canon, Marvel even went to far to specially request and hire Chris Claremont specifically from volume 2, its weird to think they would go thru that much trouble to revive a non-canon story arc. Not to mention Wolverine's death in X men forever has been mentioned later, as well as backed by bio. As is their first confrontation with Stranger.

The one significant difference and advantage that Forever has over Uncannyis that we don't have to worry about corporate needs. The one great disadvantage with Fantastic Four or with X-Men or with Spider-Man or with any book in the mainstream Marvel line is that the characters must be preserved for Marvel's sake. But since these characters are being preserved in Uncanny, they can be altogether frighteningly mortal in Forever, as we'll be demonstrating fairly early on. The fact is, if a character is unlucky enough to die, it's a real thing and it isn't corrected a week later. They won't come back. There are consequences and from that basis everything proceeds.

—Chris Claremont

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#24 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@killemall said:

@veitha: Why is X-men Forever none canon, Marvel even went to far to specially request and hire Chris Claremont specifically from volume 2, its weird to think they would go thru that much trouble to revive a non-canon story arc. Not to mention Wolverine's death in X men forever has been mentioned later, as well as backed by bio. As is their first confrontation with Stranger.

The one significant difference and advantage that Forever has over Uncannyis that we don't have to worry about corporate needs. The one great disadvantage with Fantastic Four or with X-Men or with Spider-Man or with any book in the mainstream Marvel line is that the characters must be preserved for Marvel's sake. But since these characters are being preserved in Uncanny, they can be altogether frighteningly mortal in Forever, as we'll be demonstrating fairly early on. The fact is, if a character is unlucky enough to die, it's a real thing and it isn't corrected a week later. They won't come back. There are consequences and from that basis everything proceeds.

—Chris Claremont

And it is set in a completely different Earth, it's Earth 161, not 616. It's not in continuity... when was Wolverine's death mentioned? Storm has never been evil in the 616 continuity and she's never killed Wolverine.

@dratini1331 @homicidalmaniac thanks for voting, guys.

Comicstooge 3 - Veitha 2

#25 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

This almost crashed my internet browser it was so epic O.o

#27 Posted by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

This almost crashed my internet browser it was so epic O.o

Thanks, dude.

#28 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: No, like seriously, the expansion from all the scans is almost crashing my internet Browser O.o Haha, but yes this debate was a few leaps and bounds ahead of most of the ones i've seen around. Comicstooge, you're too good at what you do =P

#29 Edited by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331 said:

@comicstooge: No, like seriously, the expansion from all the scans is almost crashing my internet Browser O.o Haha, but yes this debate was a few leaps and bounds ahead of most of the ones i've seen around. Comicstooge, you're too good at what you do =P

Yeah, I've been improving as of late I suppose. But really, if I impress you, guys like CitizenBane and JediXMan would blow your mind.

#30 Posted by Jgames (1692 posts) - - Show Bio

comicstooge get my vote

#31 Posted by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames said:

comicstooge get my vote

Thanks.

#32 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Veitha gets my vote, and also do you want to have a next viner match with me? I need to reedeem myself after 2 losses from you :P

#33 Posted by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, it's currently...

ComicStooge: 4

Veitha: 3

#34 Posted by Killemall (18649 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

And it is set in a completely different Earth, it's Earth 161, not 616. It's not in continuity... when was Wolverine's death mentioned? Storm has never been evil in the 616 continuity and she's never killed Wolverine.

Where is it mentioned it takes place in Earth 161? I cant see a single mentioned of that.

And Storm did not kill Wolverine, it was the evil clone created called 36 who did. Storm was broken into 2, in a body of a child and actual abilities itself gained sentience, when Constortum (or whatever the name of the organization was) tried to teleport her away using some sort of weird technology.

#35 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

And it is set in a completely different Earth, it's Earth 161, not 616. It's not in continuity... when was Wolverine's death mentioned? Storm has never been evil in the 616 continuity and she's never killed Wolverine.

Where is it mentioned it takes place in Earth 161? I cant see a single mentioned of that.

And Storm did not kill Wolverine, it was the evil clone created called 36 who did. Storm was broken into 2, in a body of a child and actual abilities itself gained sentience, when Constortum (or whatever the name of the organization was) tried to teleport her away using some sort of weird technology.

I didn't read the last part of X-Men Forever so I didn't know about the clone stuff lol anyway it wasn't mentioned in comics that it is Earth 161 like it wasn't mentioned that the Ultimate Universe is Earth 1610, but just check any wiki and you'll see this. X-Men Forever is a project created by Chris Claremont to show people what would have happened if he had stayed in Marvel and hadn't left like he actually did. It's not chanonical (there are a lot of things that didn't happen in 616 and if they happened in that universe things would be completely different from now). As @dondave posted, it's just a project of Chris Claremont that doesn't change continuity(wasn't TChalla killed in that universe? didn't Gambit and Kitty have a story while Colossus was Black Widow's boyfriend? Cable didn't exist in that universe and there are a lot of things that didn't happen in the mainstream universe that instead took place there).

#36 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@jgames: thanks for voting.

Veitha gets my vote, and also do you want to have a next viner match with me? I need to reedeem myself after 2 losses from you :P

thanks for voting. And after I'm done with my CaV against CadenceV2 we can have a battle if you want :)

#37 Posted by Funsiized (3865 posts) - - Show Bio

God, The shade is terrifying.....BUT. i feel like Veitha offered a nice counter to him, and magik is just so dang strong, sometimes i feel like she coudl take on skyfathers...esh

Anyways, my Vote goes to @veitha

#38 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@funsiized: thanks for voting

Comicstooge 4 - Veitha 4

#39 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

#40 Posted by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess this was a tie, then?

#41 Posted by ComicStooge (15043 posts) - - Show Bio

I HEREBY DECLARE THIS DEBATE A TIE!

Good work @veitha! :)