CAV: Superman (HM) VS Goku (P52) (GOKU WON)

Goku (Pope052)

VS

Superman (homicidalmaniac)

Battlefield: Earth (Indestructible)

Starts in NYC, but allowed to go anywhere on the Earth.

Only Goku and Superman are present on the Earth.

Rules:

Goku:

• End of DBZ Goku.
• Access to all Super Saiyan Forms, except Super Saiyan 4 and God.
• Feats from Dragon Ball, & DBZ Manga/Anime are permitted.
• No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
• No uses of Kryptonite, or a Red Sun. Leaving the battlefield is not permitted.
• Morals Off, Superman just slaughtered Chi Chi, & every Z Fighter/Saiyan.
• Win by Death, or KO only.

Superman:

• Post-Crisis Superman.
• All feats are allowed from Post Crisis Superman, except any from after a Sun-Dip.
• No Prep, nor Prior Knowledge.
• No Sun-Dipping, nor forcing Goku into space. Leaving the battlefield is not permitted.
• Morals Off, Goku just slaughtered Lois Lane & the entire JLA.
• Win by Death, or KO only.

Challenge a Viner Rules:

Debate:

• Only myself, and @homicidalmaniac are participating in the debate.

• Do not start debates, flame-wars, etc, under any circumstances.

• Do not correct either of us on any mistake, miscalculation, etc, that we could have possibly made, if you must do so, send us a P.M.

• No mention or reference from Death Battle, it was miscalculated to at least some degree, therefore inaccurate and unreliable.

• No posting videos, external links, scans, music, etc, all of these are examples of irrelevance and will flood the thread.

• This thread had to be redone twice, DO NOT RUIN THIS ONE.

Voting:

• Give a reason for your vote.

• It's a vote on who debated better, not an average battle forum topic on which character would win in a fight.

• Voting is only permitted when both of us have agreed to end the debate, when we have, it will be announced and voting is open from that point only.

• May the best man win.

@homicidalmaniac

Fresh start once again, but this time a moderator will post a warning for those who could ruin it.

I'll have my opening post(s) combined into one opening, it will be up in a good while or tomorrow.

@god_spawn

Thanks for doing this, it will help.

So if this goes all the rails like the last one did, I'm just going to start handing out warnings or maybe worse. Let these two debate, and then you can say your piece.

lol, wow. How was the last one derailed?

lol omz yall had to make a third one cuz people couldnt with hold their hate for these characters XD

Hopefully this one works out well. Good luck to you both @pope052 and @homicidalmaniac

@homicidalmaniac

Here it is,

The format of my posts will be early showings from Dragon Ball & Early DBZ, then causally working my way up as the debate goes on...

Goku:

Speed:

After the 1st Martial Arts Tournament, Goku as just a kid is fast enough to see, catch, and dodge machine gun bullets.

Scans:

Master Roshi is also able to see, catch, and dodge machine gun bullets:

Scan:

However, by the 2nd Martial Arts Tournament, Master Roshi is unable to even see Goku move.

Only echoes, and Ki senses were able to sense Goku, but could not be seen by the naked eye, so he was invisible.

Regular humans couldn't sense him at all.

Scan:

So that proves that since Roshi could not see Goku move, and since he could see the bullets move, it means that Goku was going tremendously faster than machine gun bullets.

Now I want to compare Superman's reactions to Goku's:

(Keep in mind):

I do not use any of these scans to degrade Superman, I simply use them to compare the attributes between Goku & Superman.

Now back onto my point,

Superman couldn't react fast enough to save several men from being executed via machine gun bullets:

Scans:

Mr. Popo can sense anything happening even when he isn't looking, as if he had eyes looking in every direction.

His senses were tremendous, he would sense anything Goku was going to do and/or if he was going to attack him:

Scan:

By these showings, Superman's reactions aren't nearly as fast, and certainly aren't instantaneous like Goku's, so Goku clearly has the upper hand in reaction timing, & reflexes.

Superman's traverse speed is much faster than Goku's, but traverse speed is irrelevant in an fight unless Superman is going to constantly stray away from Goku, which wouldn't be the case,

Now to go onto more tremendous speed feats from Goku when he was still just a kid:

Dodges Lasers:

Lasers are much faster than bullets, this is a low-end showing but just for the sake of the debate i'll add it in:

Catches a Dragon-Ball before it spreads out across the planet:

This feat alone could be argued that Goku as a kid was already FTL.

Considering that they would need to move at the bare minimum of half the speed of light, As all 7 Dragon-Balls shoot off and land in different areas of the Earth in a very short sequence of seconds, Goku was capable of catching one.

Dodging Tien's Solar Flare

Tien attempts the Solar-Flare attack, but Goku is so fast that he manages to dash to Master Roshi, take his sunglasses, put them on, return to his position, catch Tien's fist, & strike Tien without getting hit whatsoever!

Again, this feat along with the Dragon-Ball catch feat could easily be arguable on whether Goku was already FTL, in which he most likely was.

The Solar Flare is an instant attack, it blinds the opponent as soon as the user finishes shouting "Solar-Flare/Taioken", and Goku was still able to dodge it.

I'd easily put Goku at least at the speed of light from those two showings.

Now to move up later into Dragon Ball:

Teenage Goku:

As Goku ascends to a teenager & after he received his power up from Korin, he moves & fights completely invisible.

He fights Tien again, but this time obviously as a teenager, both Tien & Goku cannot been seen fighting for the most.

Scans:

He was too fast for even King Piccolo to see, who supposedly exceeded everybody at that time period.

His Ki was also becoming more difficult to sense:

Scan:

Kami, the overwatcher of Earth who sees everything that occurs, couldn't sense both King Piccolo & Teen Goku fight:

Scan:

Mr.Popo stated Kid Goku to move much faster than the speed of lightning:

Scan:

Proven so far:

• Goku is minimally the speed of light at the End of Dragon Ball.

Now in case you still aren't convinced, i'm going to do some rough calculations of Goku's FTL Speeds:

Calculations:

Typically, a lightning bolt is roughly calculated to move at 224,000 MPH

Now, the speed of light (according to Google) is calculated to move at a speed of 670,616,629 MPH

Obviously,the speed of lightning is hopeless in comparison to the speed of light.

But what if Kid Goku could already transform into Super Saiyan 1-3 before DBZ?

His speed would be as follows:

Base = 250,000MPH(considering that he is stated to be far faster than the speed of lightning).

SSJ = 12,500,000 MPH

SSJ2=25,000,000 MPH

SSJ3= 100,000,000 MPH

But Goku when he first turned SSJ would be FAR superiorin every aspect than SSJ3 Kid Goku.

Base Goku (Frieza) would be at bare minimum, X20 faster than SSJ3 Kid Goku(That's only a bare minimum of how stronger Z Goku would be, when in reality he would be far, far, FAR faster than what i'm calculating, but i'll use my calculations in order not to overpower Goku).

SSJ3 Kid Goku - 100,000,000 MPH

Base Goku (Frieza) - 2,000,000,000 MPH (Almost x3 times the Speed Light)

Ifthat isn't enough, or if you're confused, let me know and I can elaborate on these calculations if you'd like me to.

Raw Strength:

I'm not going to focus too much on raw strength, mainly because it doesn't factor into this fight, it's striking power that matters.

Also because Superman could lift more with his baby finger then Goku could with both arms i'll admit to that.

Seriously though, lifting strength doesn't factor in to this fight at all.

However, i'll give a couple of feats for debate's sake:

Goku's Weighted Clothing:

Goku has constantly trained with his weighted clothing.

Tien & Krillin attempted to pick up his clothes, but were struggling and were surprised on how heavy they were.

Scans:

Flipping Giant King Piccolo:

Giant King Piccolo grew tremendously in size, yet Goku can still flip his entire body like a rag doll.

A rough guess of Piccolo's weight would be more than 8 tonnes, but at max 10 tonnes (roughly).

Scan:

Energy Beam Speed/ Destructive Capability

Dragon Ball Characters have been busting moons since power levels below 300, and at FTL speeds.

Here are some low showings of the speed & destructibility of their beams:

Master Roshi busting the Moon (PL : Far below 300)

Master Roshi decided to destroy the moon as it was the only way of stopping Goku's Oozaru Transformation from murdering everybody.

He charged a Kamehameha, and fired it towards the moon, reaching & destroying it in less than a second, which has to be at least faster than the speed of light to reach the moon that fast.

Scans:

Piccolo busting the Moon (PL: 350-400)

Next, we see Piccolo bust the moon again for the exact same reason with a power level of slightly higher.

Again, to be able to shoot an energy blast out of orbit, hitting the moon in less than a second, and with a power level of less than 400, the beam needs to be at the very minimum of light speed.

Scans:

Combat/ Dodging Speeds:

DB Characters dodging at FTL Speeds:

When Goku fought Tien for the second time, they were both vastly more powerful then they were when they fought previously.

See my first post for proof of the following:

Tien VS Kid Goku:

• Kid Goku - Half of Light Speed (minimally).

• Tien - Not so much.

Still barely loses to Tien in their fight at the tournament, Tien was not even faster than Goku.

Tien VS Teen Goku:

Teen Goku - Light Speed or slightly below.

Tien - Half of Light Speed (minimally).

Tien wasn't holding back and couldn't even tag Goku near the start of the fight, Goku wasn't even tired trying to dodge Tien's attacks.

Scans:

However as the fight progressed, Tien was able to dodge Goku's attacks while he was going slower on purpose, and gave Goku a good few hits.

To be able to hit Teen Goku, you'll need to be close enough to the speed of light in terms of combat speed, in which Tien was clearly capable of.

Scans:

So the point is that since Goku was at least half of light speed as a Kid, then as he ascends to a Teen to become easily at light speed movement, and Tien is capable of keeping up with & tagging him without even going all out.

Tien must have the combat & dodging speed near enough to light speed to be able to spar with Teen Goku.

Onto prove that the Z Characters dodge FTL attacks.

Raditz side-stepping Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon

I have already proven that the energy beams are FTL, see my first post if you haven't.

Raditz dodges Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon, which is FTL.

Raditz was also slightly weakened, & had a max PL of 1200, which makes it even more impressive.

Scans:

Durability:

I'm going to move onto to DBZ, as there's pretty much no liable durability feats in Dragon-Ball.

Frieza was cut in half by his own attack (Destructo Disk), and had virtually no Ki left to continue the fight with Goku.

Scans:

After that, Frieza was unable to continue fighting, and couldn't even move.

So then, Goku gave Frieza a small portion of his energy, until Frieza made the daft decision of trying to shoot Goku with an energy beam,

Scans:

Goku reacted accordingly, firing a beam back at Frieza's, defeating it, and destroying Planet Namek in the process (a destructive feat).

Scans:

And then you have the aftermath of Namek's Destruction, everything was completely obliterated

But wait..

Frieza survived the attack, and sustained no further damage from Goku's Energy Beam at all!

Scans:

From these showings, Frieza can tank a large planet busting attack while in these conditions:

• Half of his body torn apart

• Battleworn.

• Had virtually no Ki left whatsoever.

Now onto my next point:

Trunks was able to slice Frieza clean in half (after he had been rebuilt) with his sword, this was an act of striking power on Trunks' part.

Being capable of slicing Frieza so easily requires more striking power than a planet busting attack, in which Trunks' clearly had that much power.

Scan:

Also, to prove that this was an act of striking power and not the sword itself:

King Cold attempts to kill Trunks with his own sword, fails miserably, and then get's killed with a single Ki blast.

Scans:

Then when Goku had returned, Trunks wanted to put his power to the test and challenge Goku.

Trunks wasn't holding back, was using all of his striking power to try and affect Goku, yet he couldn't even scratch Goku's finger.

Goku's finger wasn't even scratched by slices that have enough force to shatter planets!

Scans:

That's my opening concluded...

@pope052: Superman

Speed

The Superman bullets feat you show is not a good showing of Supes Speed.Superman is beyond bullets speed.He would have catch those bullets with super ease(yes a pun)at top speed.

Superman have been able to keep up with the Flashes speed(mind you the Flashes are faster than Supes,but then again the Flashes are faster than Goku too)and the Flashes are faster than light.

I can show more speed feats for you.

Strength/Destruction Power/Durability

Feats

You gotta ambit that Superman is clearly more physically stronger than Goku.

I still show more feats

That my opening

are yuo f****serious , i was asking to do a goku vs post crisis in the CAV thread, DAmint , Pope, you screw goku , i swear...i'll do things that haven't even been possib;le through the internet! Good luck

This is going to be good.

Interesting so far so good

@homicidalmaniac:

The Superman bullets feat you show is not a good showing of Supes Speed.Superman is beyond bullets speed.He would have catch those bullets with super ease(yes a pun)at top speed.

I'll concede to that, considering it was possible PIS, but Superman's reactions aren't nearly as fast as his traverse speed.

Superman have been able to keep up with the Flashes speed(mind you the Flashes are faster than Supes,but then again the Flashes are faster than Goku too)and the Flashes are faster than light.

It isn't a race, it's a fight. Traverse speed feats are meaningless in actual combat. Flash is faster than Goku in every form of speed, Superman is only faster than Goku in traverse speed.

However, I may as well give you some traverse speed feats from Goku if you really want to compare them:

While he isn't as fast as Superman in the aspect, he certainly isn't slow either:

Traversing Namek in less than a second:

And just to prove to you that he did indeed travel from one side of Namek to the other:

Therefore, Goku is FTL in terms of traverse speed.

But as I said before, traverse speed is meaningless in a fight.

Goku is beyondFTL in terms of combat speed, reactions, and dodging speeds, that in which Superman does not even come close to.

Wonder Woman stated that Superman had the advantage in traverse speed, but she was clearly faster than Superman in combat speed, also Batman agreed with her:

Scan:

Supes can move his body so fast that he can become invisible

Goku as a childwas already moving & fighting invisibly, and was minimally half the speed of light.

Superman moving invisibly to try to contend with Goku is like Quicksilver moving at the speed of sound to try to contend with The Flash.

Speed blitzing Kyptonains

Impressive, but Goku's senses save him from getting blitzed and he reacts instantaneously.

Not to mention that Superman's attacks are far too slow to contend with Goku's combat speed:

Supes at super speed,he see lightning in slow motion and lightning is over 60% of light speed

No it isn't, it's not even comparable:

Lightning Bolts roughly travel at 224,000 MPH,

Light Speed roughly travels at 670,616,629 MPH.

60% of that number is 402,369,977.

Even if it was 60% of Light Speed, Kid Goku was still far faster than it and that's just proving that Kid Goku was minimally 60% of light speed.

Supes beating Mongul with super speed,freeze breathe,and Heat Vision.

Mongul doesn't have super speed (as far as i'm aware), so Superman clearly had the speed advantage in that encounter.

Dodge Batman punch with the most ease and Superman stated that if Batman did punch him.Every bone in Batman hand would be broken.

Is that supposed to be a feat of his speed or how tough Superman's body is?

If speed is the case, dodging Batman's punch is a worthless feat as Batman is nothing compared to either Superman or Goku.

If his body's durability is the case, Batman would break his hand trying the same to Goku.

Either way this feat isn't worth taking into consideration.

Now to move on to counter your strength/durability/destructive output argument:

You gotta ambit that Superman is clearly more physically stronger than Goku.

I already said that Superman skyrockets above Goku in terms of physical strength,

However, physical strength means nothing in an actual fight, it is the striking power that matters.

Goku isn't necessarily weak in the field of physical strength, but it is probably his weakest aspect.

But again it doesn't matter in a fight.

Superman holding a small black hole in his hand.Black Holes warp space an time at the same time.Supes resisting the black hole power is also a great durability feat.

If you're using this for a strength feat, it doesn't factor into a fight.

If you're using this for a durability feat, then it is very impressive indeed.

Superman is pulling 1/3 of the Earth weight and so Superman is pulling two sextrillion tons.

Again, physical strength does not factor into this at all. I'm physically stronger than most of my friends, but some can hit harder than I ever could.

Goku and Frezia aren't the only ones that were in a destroy planet fight.Superman and Zod were destroying a planet in a mainly physical fight.

Superman punch Lobo into orbit

This now brings me onto my next point:

Goku's Striking Power:

In my previous post I had proven the following:

• Trunks had enough force to slice clean through a rebuilt Frieza, who had previously tanked a planet-buster while in critical conditions.

• Trunks had more force with a sword while not even going all out than a full-scale planet busting energy blast.

• Goku's finger could catch & withstand every one of Trunks' attacks, and he wasn't holding back.

Also, take a look at this and consider it proof for Trunks' planet shattering striking power,

Supreme Kai states that there were five beings capable of obliterating Frieza with one blow:

Now to move on,

Cell had some of Frieza's & King Cold's cells:

Scans:

Cell had his babies named Cell Jr's, who have the same cells as Cell, since they're his babies.

When the Z fighters battled with the Cell Jr's, they were getting horrendously stomped.

The Cell Jr's are much stronger than Frieza, since they're capable of effortlessly stomping Super Saiyan Vegeta who was stronger than Goku when he turned Super Saiyan.

But then when Gohan ascends to SSJ2, he is capable of one-shotting them all.

Scans:

From all of this:

• Frieza had the durability of tanking a planet busting energy blast while in critical conditions.
• Trunks had the strength to slice clean through a rebuilt Frieza.
• Cell & Cell Jr's had Frieza's Cells, and were superior to Friza in every way, which includes durability.
• SSJ2 Gohan had the power to one shot all of the Cell Jr's who were stronger than Frieza, & Super Saiyans including Trunks.

Trunks had more strength than a planet shattering attack, but SSJ2 Gohan exceeded Trunks & the Cell Jr's who had superior durability beyond planetary level attacks.

Gohan clearly had the striking force that is far superior to large planet busters, & he could tank planet busting attacks all the same. So he has the strength to deliver planet shattering++ punches, & take the same amount of damage.

To prove that Goku is superior to all of this, Vegeta states that he was stronger than Gohan was when he fought Cell:

Proof:

Superman tank a Star going supernova

Superman also tank a planet being destroyed.

Now i'll elaborate more on Goku's Durability:

Durability (Continued):

As well as tanking them, here Frieza deflects a planet buster from Vegeta:

Scans:

As I had previously stated & proved that SSJ2 Gohan delivers planet busters as well as tanking them, and also that SSJ2 Goku was stronger than him, let me move on:

SSJ2 Goku VS Majin Vegeta:

In this battle, both Goku & Vegeta were stronger than SSJ2 Gohan.

Goku states that they're both evenly matched:

Proof:

Vegeta wasn't holding back, and was going to kill Goku:

Scan:

Vegeta sticks with his word, delivering a very violent beating towards Goku.

Scans:

Throughout their fight, Goku delivers, tanks, deflects & dodges punches that shatter planets:

Goku could even catch planet busting punches:

Scan:

Also I should show some more implications of the destructive capability of Energy Beams:

Destructive Capability (Continued):

Kamehameha can bust the Earth:

Cell's Solar Kamehameha

Cell states that he had enough Chi to bust the Solar System with his Kamehameha:

Buu had previously busted Galaxies:

Elder Kai stated that Buu had previously destroyed countless planets & entire galaxies:

Since Goku is superior to both Cell & Majin Buu combined at then end of DBZ,

Even if Goku is not a Galaxy Buster, then he is at least a Solar System++ Buster, so that means he has the destructive capability of busting:

• Moons.
• Planets.
• Stars.
• Asteroid Belts.
• Sun(s).

Also just because Goku hasn't busted any of these, that in no way means he couldn't.

It wouldn't make sense for Goku to go around destroying Solar Systems and/or Galaxies, if would conflict with his morals, but it doesn't mean that he can't do it, he just chooses not to for obvious reasons.

@homicidalmaniac: @pope052:

Good Luck Guys ^-^

@homicidalmaniac: @pope052: Yay!!!!

i'd do it vs you, but I only have SA Supes scans D: Sorry =(

@dratini1331: SA?

@pope052:

Superman

I'll concede to that, considering it was possible PIS, but Superman's reactions aren't nearly as fast as his traverse speed.

Goku is beyondFTL in terms of combat speed, reactions, and dodging speeds, that in which Superman does not even come close to.

Wonder Woman stated that Superman had the advantage in traverse speed, but she was clearly faster than Superman in combat speed, also Batman agreed with her:

Superman Combat Speed and Reaction Speed aren't inferior to Goku in anyway.Superman have gotten the better of Wonder Wonder a couple of times and Superman shown to have better speed than WW.I recall WW fought Superman one or two times when Supes was mind controlled and Supes had the fights in mostly his favor,but they stop fighting since Diana free Superman from the mind controlled.

• Trunks had enough force to slice clean through a rebuilt Frieza, who had previously tanked a planet-buster while in critical conditions.

• Trunks had more force with a sword while not even going all out than a full-scale planet busting energy blast.

• Goku's finger could catch & withstand every one of Trunks' attacks, and he wasn't holding back.

Also, take a look at this and consider it proof for Trunks' planet shattering striking power,

As well as tanking them, here Frieza deflects a planet buster from Vegeta:

There a differences between tanking energy blasts/others and tanking physical force.EX.Superboy Prime tank a energy blast that killed all life in a universe an he wasn't killed and Wally West made Superboy bleed from the mouth with a few punches.

Let me find more Superman feats to counter the points.

DFHDSFHDFHJFDHDFJDFJDFJFJFDJDFJJFJDJDJFDJJF OMG I ALWAYYS SAY THIS,see even batman agrees with me.

Can usain bolt fight as fast as bruce lee even though he can run faster?

SEGSDAGAGEAGAGSDAGSDGGG FINally , the batman agrees wit me

@homicidalmaniac:

Superman Combat Speed and Reaction Speed aren't inferior to Goku in anyway.

Yes, they are.

Goku's reactions, combat and dodging speeds are instantaneous, Superman has to get a lot of acceleration to reach Goku's combat speed levels, but Goku isn't going to just stand by and let him accelerate.

Superman is no martial artist, he fights by using regular attacks.

Superman have gotten the better of Wonder Wonder a couple of times and Superman shown to have better speed than WW.I recall WW fought Superman one or two times when Supes was mind controlled and Supes had the fights in mostly his favor,but they stop fighting since Diana free Superman from the mind controlled.

Superman can keep up with Wonder Woman in combat speed, but he surely cannot exceed her in the field. His durability is what keeps him from losing to Diana, not his combat speed.

Superman remarks WW gotten better with her reflexes and also said she no speeding bullet which is untrue since WW is faster than light.But I'm sure Superman was joking.

Her foot was in position right down at Superman's face, it wasn't necessarily difficult for him to catch...

Superman speed blitz WW with a backhand

That was unexpected, as both Superman & especially Wonder Woman weren't engaged in actual combat. Superman isn't blitzing Goku in this fight, because he can't.

Wonder Woman is overwhelm by the mind controlled Superman an his speed/HV and she comment that Supes is taking her to the Sun.

And when they were near the sun, Wonder Woman was still faster and shoved Kryptonite into Superman's face:

Superman have Nanosecond reaction speed.A Nanosecond is 1/100,000,000,000 of a single second,

That wasn't his reaction speed, he was referring to how long he can travel to wherever he was bringing him until the kid releases a blast. That was a traverse speedfeat, NOT a reaction speed feat.

Superman speed blitz Tempest(Aquaman power level)with a poke in the neck

What do you mean Aquaman's power level?

If you mean that Tempest is as strong as Aquaman, then that blitzing feat wasn't impressive at all...

Superman dodging Darkseid Omega Beam and made it hit Darkseid

Goku casually dodges massively FTL energy beams in his battles,

I can and have proven this, say the word if you'd like a reminder.

Superman phase through Doomsday punches

Doomsday doesn't possess super speed, so that feat isn't liable & is pretty much worthless in terms of a battle with the likes of Goku's massively FTL combat speed.

Also, Goku phases through punches like it's nothing, and these punches come from opponents who have FTL combat speed.

I'll provide some scans, but they really aren't necessary:

Ask for more if you wish, just say the word.

Superman speed up his senses to almost match Wally West speed and everything around them look frozen in time.

Like I said, Superman can be faster than Goku as he had time to do reach those levels, but he isn't getting a spare second in a fight with Goku.

There a differences between tanking energy blasts/others and tanking physical force.EX.Superboy Prime tank a energy blast that killed all life in a universe an he wasn't killed and Wally West made Superboy bleed from the mouth with a few punches.

I realize that, but Goku can tank both physical force & energy blasts that could shatter/obliterate planets, I've proven this already.

Silver age

@pope052: @homicidalmaniac:

Well best of luck to the both of you.

Give me a few days to show sense of all this,find more feats for Superman,and try to debunk your posts,

This guy doesn't know anything about supes -_- I can find at least 3 good scans of supes reaction time but whatever I commend you for your goku knowledge

@flashgreatersigneveryone: I found others Superman reaction feats and I still getting more speed blitz feats.

@flashgreatersigneveryone: Not aloud any comments, this will cuase flame war. And pope , me , your mother @limpzyloan and your uncle @thedarklordpandamonium are so proud ! Your a way better debater for goku than I thought!

@pope052 finally you can actually have a thread not getting derailed.

@nighthunder: Only because he's going up against someone who's posting non canon scans as feats for Pre Flashpoint Superman and not backing up his arguments properly. But I'll go into detail after the debate. This is just a bookmarking comment for me to come back to later on.

I know its in the rules that Supes can't force Goku out of Earth's Atmosphere, but if that did occur, Goku would not die. It was proven that Saiyans can indeed survive in space.

@dreadpool10: Did you not read the OP? Please do...

@pope052: The flaws in both your arguments over this debate. We're allowed to do that once the debate is over. And you exhibit many common flaws in the DBZ debater's posts over why powerhouses like Superman lose to Goku. It's a dance I've done many times before. But I'll save that for after your debate. Don't want it derailed do you?

Are the DBZ fanboys still butthurt of discovering Supse a Superior character

1. Who wins in a fight doesn't determine who's a better character.

2. Who's a better character is subjective and we'll leave it at that.

3. Don't try and start arguments please.

This crap have been done too many times in the end Supse win he is stronger, faster more durable and more intelligent then Goku he already haves way more better feats then Goku but no matter what a DBZ fanboy will always be in denial.

So is this in voting now? Lol

@pope052: That's what I said I'd do.

@codysf: did you read the OP? Your not supposed to post this crap you are saying. Most of it is just your opinion anyways. This debate is between two people only.

@pope052: Oh I misread that part. All right then, after voting's over.

@lvenger: I am going to point out the flaws of Goku/DBZ speed/others and before I do that I want to finish reading my collection of Shaman King manga.

@lvenger: i'd happily do a caV with you instead of pointing out popes mistakes? Why not debate against someone whos...more hardened in debating with goku? Same match goku vs post crisis superman maybe?

@pope052: Death Battle is preety much the answer but the animation they made tells everything and what do you have against then to a point that you forbide a person to mention it?

Why not reread my post?

"I know its in the rules that Supes can't force Goku out of Earth's Atmosphere, but if that did occur, Goku would not die. It was proven that Saiyans can indeed survive in space."

*Sigh* @pope052