#1 Edited by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

IN THIS CORNER, we have the lovely, the alluring, the kitty with a serious bite! CAAAAAAATWOMAAAAAAN!

AND IN THIS CORNER, we have the calm, cool, and collected psychopathic samurai war veteran, FRAAAAAAANK JAEGERRRRR!

It's battle of the felines tonight! (a fox is a cat right?) Who comes out the victor?! (Hint Hint: It's Gray Fox ;D)

Fight takes place as seen below. Morals on, standard gear, no knowledge.

Edit: TO THE DEAD!

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#2 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, am I severely underestimating Catwoman or am I severely overestimating Gray Fox? Because my initial thought is Gray Fox stomps.

#3 Posted by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Okay, am I severely underestimating Catwoman or am I severely overestimating Gray Fox? Because my initial thought is Gray Fox stomps.

We're using him in human form without the Cyborg enhancements for fairness, so it should be closer than you think.

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#4 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@NickZ Alright, strict H2H? Or do they get gear? Also nice touch with the "To the dead".

#5 Posted by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

@NickZ Alright, strict H2H? Or do they get gear? Also nice touch with the "To the dead".

Standard gear, Fox is great with a sword but lacks sufficient hand to hand skills. I should add that to the OP actually.

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#6 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll watch this one.

#7 Edited by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

As wily and undoubtedly skilled as Catwoman is, Gray Fox should be capable of defeating her. As the greatest FOXHOUND operative to ever join the force, and the only one to ever earn the codename Fox in the organizations entire history, Frank Jaeger's unparalleled martial mastery is legendary in the Black Ops world. Equivocally, he's the Ra's al Ghul of Metal Gear.

"A child soldier and member of the CIA Special Forces unit FOX, Null is also known as the Perfect Soldier. Possessing superhuman physical abilities, this invincible warrior has defeated every opponent he has faced."

-Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops

Though despite having recieved extensive training (borderline torturous), most of Fox's skill is natural. While still going through puberty, the frank hunter was singlehandedly cutting up entire squadrons of armed soldiers with merely a knife, dozens of militiamen at a time fell to the pre-teen boy. As a matter of fact, his fighting prowess was so extreme, he was inducted into the top secret "Perfect Soldier" program while still a teen.

Of the several dozen test subjects, Frank Jaeger was the only one who managed to survive (hence the codename Null; a lost number)

2:40 - 4:05

While the soldier's hand to hand skill is lacking, there is not a man alive who can best his blade. Below we can see him effortlessly deflecting multiple gunshots from Big Boss (marksman of nearly Punisher caliber) and in the end, The Legendary Mercenary can do no more than stalemate Null (admittedly, the ending of their rematch is a bit different when Big Boss decided to throw away his weapons)

And of course, he's still a teenager during all of that. By the time of Metal Gear 2, he's had considerable time to hone his skills. Experience is an edge firmly in Frank Jaeger's pocket, as are all physical stats (I would think at least). Coupled with the fact that his machete is pretty much a one hit kill (it's hard to fight through being stabbed in the face), and Selina won't be so pretty for much longer.

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#8 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: I'll reply back tonight. Good opening post!

#9 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Um...so my reply is a little late lol.

I agree that he is without a doubt faster and most likely stronger. He might be a tad more skilled as well, but I didn't see anything that shows he is out of her league. She has fought Batman, Zeiss, Catman, and many other skilled opponents on an equal grounds or better.

As for his machete, it is dangerous. At the same time, disarming opponents is something Catwoman has been doing for many years. Add that to her superior acrobatics and pain tolerance and she will give him a great fight. Catwoman has a couple of weapons of her own as well.

Here she uses her claws very nicely in battle, showing that even an armed opponent can be cut up.
Taking a dart shot by a gun out of the air with her whip. He reaction timing an accuracy with the whip is incredible
Showing that she can fight a skilled and armed opponent with great ease.
The whip is so dangerous that it kills a snake with single strike.

She has used both of these weapons against very skilled opponents as well, such as Batman, Robin, Two-Face, etc.

As for the match, I think that Catwoman is going to be a hard opponent to beat. She is unpredictable, acrobatic, and unforgiving.

#10 Posted by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

She has fought Batman, Zeiss, Catman, and many other skilled opponents on an equal grounds or better.

While she has indeed been capable of hanging with such characters, Catman is the only one who she actually ended up beating. Both Batman and Zeiss defeat her in the end; comparatively, Gray Fox fought Solid Snake to a standstill when using his sword, a character I believe would take a swift win over the latter two characters, and even has a good shot at Big Daddy Bat himself.

^ Admittedly this was with his cyborg enhancements

Taking a dart shot by a gun out of the air with her whip. He reaction timing an accuracy with the whip is incredible

True enough, though I believe deflecting gun fire to outweigh that by quite a bit, especially from multiple assailants at a time.

Catwoman can try and disarm Gray Fox, but I doubt her whip moves faster than Machine Gun Bullets. If anything, he may very well be capable of cutting the weapon apart midair, effectively countering her attempted disarm.

Add that to her superior acrobatics and pain tolerance

I would think Frank to be the more agile of the two, if not incredibly close. But pain tolerance, that's an area where he's unmatched, thanks to his fatalistic and borderline nihilistic view on life. He simply doesn't care to put it bluntly; even after being pinned to a wall by having each of his limbs impaled and stuck in place, he simply breaks free and continues his rampage, murdering dozens of his own allies in his pursuit of Big Boss.

2:20 getting his arm sliced off is only the beginning of this (highly acrobatic) fight scene. He's perfectly fine to continue dodging bullets, and then barely notices as REX squishes him against the wall and blood just explodes all over the place.

The whip killed a snake, but Gray Fox is a lot more durable than a snake (takes no damage from Metal Gear D's explosion despite being the pilot). Even if she does get a couple shots on him, the soldier can easily bare the pain and continue fighting.

And when I say Gray Fox is a lot more durable than a Snake, I mean it both ways. His raw power even as a human was incredible; it's implied he was even stronger than Solid Snake (superhuman striking power).

1:25 Metal Gear D's explosion.

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#11 Posted by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

You still up for this?

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#12 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Absolutely, I just had a rough past couple of days. I should be replying like regular now. I'll go ahead and write up the reply.

#13 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: The first time Zeiss won, but Selina dominated the second fight, before winning via plot device.

As for being faster, I'm not sure. She has dodge automatic machine gun fire on a routine bases, even deflecting a bullet with her whip. Unfortunately I don't have scans of the latter.

Unless Fox is faster than say Batman, she should be able to tag him. If he is faster than Batman, this debate ends here as it is a mis-match. I've seen her tag Batman with the whip, claws, and every type of attack you can think of. I don't see Fox dodging everything.

As for the pain tolerance, Catwoman has quite a few feats as well. Such as digging in her arm for a bomb, still jumping rooftops when she had a broken leg, fighting while shot, etc. He will find that tagging her once or twice isn't going to put her down unless he kills her.

As for his durability, it is impressive indeed. Unless Catwoman uses a nerve strike or the like, he will be hard to put down.

#14 Posted by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

As for being faster, I'm not sure. She has dodge automatic machine gun fire on a routine bases, even deflecting a bullet with her whip. Unfortunately I don't have scans of the latter.

Fox has done the exact same thing in clips I've posted above.

Only difference is, he did it with absolute causality, not even focusing on the guards and instead having his mind completely bent on Big Boss.

He's deflected multiple bullets before, not just wacking one away like Selina did. A marksman of Naked Snake's caliber being literally unable to tag Null with bullets shows how advanced his reflexes are.

I would say he's most DEFINITELY faster than Batman; Metal Gear has some unbelievably speedy characters but he stands out as the fastest one there is (besides Gene, who was designed to have better reflexes than Null). Solid Snake and Big Boss are more comparable to Batman in terms of speed.

8:30 blitzes a group of guards after they're already on top of him, Fox had less than a millisecond but still killed all four before anyone even knew what was happening.

OK, I've literally gone and posted every appearance Frank Jaeger has ever made as a human, as well as 50% of his Cyborg appearances. I'm completely out of feats so let's call it quits :P

Cliffs-

-Fox should have a distinct advantage in just about every physicality

-Selina can take a beating before going down, but Null straight up doesn't care about pain

-If Catwoman attempts to disarm Gray Fox with her whip as she's been known to do, he can easily react and cut the weapon into multiple pieces midair

-Catwoman's claws are dangerous, but Fox had every limb impaled to a wall and was just like "whatevs". She'll need to kill him quickly to win.

-The same can be said in reverse, but the difference between these two is, Fox will be actively trying to kill his opponent. Even if he gets the chance to spare her, he won't. Every attack thrown out will be a fatal one.

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#15 Posted by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

We've got a shorty over here. Take a look!

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#16 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: lol, ok.

Good debating you sir! It's nice to see the vine has such capable debaters still :)

I would do some Cliff notes as well, but that takes away the point in reading all of it :P

#17 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12031 posts) - - Show Bio

Over already?

#18 Posted by nickzambuto (13418 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Over already?

Ran out of feats :P

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#19 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12031 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Over already?

Ran out of feats :P

Hmm, I wouldn't have picked Selina personally, but she does get underrated, it'd be a good fight, just not a particularly long one IMO. Strafe pulled out some good scans though...

#20 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Over already?

Ran out of feats :P

Hmm, I wouldn't have picked Selina personally, but she does get underrated, it'd be a good fight, just not a particularly long one IMO. Strafe pulled out some good scans though...

Agreed. I knew I was debating a loosing match when I saw the first video, but I decided to debate it anyway lol.

I have like 100+ more scans for Selina. I plan to defend her a lot more often.

#21 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12031 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: You should make a Catwoman respect thread, if there isn't one already...

#22 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days: I will eventually, I just have to read a few more appearances.

#23 Posted by jashro44 (20818 posts) - - Show Bio

I think strafe prower has a slight edge.

#24 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

While Strafe gave Catwoman a decent chance and debated for her well, Gray Fox still is the victor here based off what I've seen. I'll admit though, before hand I had a stomp in mind for Gray Fox, but Strafe definetely reduced that.

#25 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Gray Fox.

#26 Edited by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

Strafe did a better job debating. The guy is a vet for a reason and it definitely showed here. Regardless of the outcome.

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#27 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Gray Fox wins the match, but Strafe Prower edges the debate with a lot of class. Entertaining read, both of you.

#28 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire: @god_spawn: @ImTheDamnBatman: @jashro44: @CadenceV2: Thanks for the input and kindness!

#29 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower: You're welcome. And I only speak the troof. You're in a class composed of only a handful of users and out of the thousands that have graced the site for years.

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#30 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Thank You!

I give props to nickz as well. He still has room to grow and will be great in the near future!

#31 Posted by beatboks1 (7161 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

@god_spawn: Thank You!

I give props to nickz as well. He still has room to grow and will be great in the near future!

Yeah gotta give him his due, NickZ is one of the newer viners who gives hope that the vine still has a future. he has an off the wall sense of humor that can put some people off if you take him too seriously ( fortunately I never take anything TOO seriously)

Well debated both, but on pure ability I'd give this to gray fox- He'd have to fight for it though.