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#1 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules

  • No Prep
  • In-Character
  • Bloodlust Off
  • Peter Parker is Spider-Man
  • Hulk will not go into World Breaker Mode
  • Tparks pick Groot and Rocket Gear
  • Stand Distance is 90 Feet
  • Win By KO/Death/Incap

Location(No people)

@tparks Is this good enough?

#2 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac: This looks fair. I don't really have time at the moment to post gear, but I will as soon as I can. Hopefully it will be tonight.

#3 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

Rocket's Gear

From left to right.

  1. Rocket Pack
  2. Two Modified Laser Pistols
  3. 5-Barreled Cannon
  4. One Grenade

Groot's Gear

From left to right.

  1. Cannon
  2. Groot mounted Cannon (for Rocket to use)

@homicidalmaniac, are you ok with this?

#4 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: I let you do the opening debate first.

#5 Edited by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac:

Before I get into my strategy, I'll throw a little description of my Raccoon and Tree.

Rocket

Rocket may look like a harmless little critter at first glance, but this furry little guy tackles cosmic level threats that make the Marvel's Earth based A lister fights seem insignificant in comparison. For example, while all of the heroes of Earth were in a "Civil War" over a silly law, Rocket Raccoon was one of the leading forces that prevented Ultron from infecting the Universe with the Phalanx virus.

A few feats...

Intelligence and Strategy

There's a reason Rocket is second in command (and sometimes first) in the Guardians of the Galaxy. He's considered to have one of the best minds for strategy in the Universe.

  • Scan 1: Starlord who has spend his entire adult life traveling the universe, claims Rocket Raccoon to have the best strategic mind he has ever met. Starlord was the head strategist for Richard Rider in the rebellion against the Annihilation Wave. He knows a good strategist when he meets him.
  • Scans 2 & 3: Rocket Raccoon develops a strategy that brings down the Phalanx Infected Babel Spire by using Blastaar's healing ability, Groots size manipulation, and Mantis's Pyrokinesis. This plan opens up the Kree homeworld for reinforcements to take out Ultron. This is the first of many times Rocket plays a vital role in saving the Universe with his wits.
  • Scans 4-8: The Starjammers need to rescue Lilandra who has been captured by Gladiator and the rest of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. The Starjammers know they are outgunned, so they turn to Rocket to come up with a strategy to take them on. Rocket has a showdown with Gladiator and uses Rachel Summers powers to make a mop look like a massive weapon designed to take on Strontians. Gladiator is fooled that he is being beaten, so his confidence drops, giving the Starjammer enough time to rescue Lilandra

There are plenty of other strategist feats, but I'm going to leave it with just one more.

In these scans, Thanos breaks out of Knowhere's holding cell. He is about to kill Starlord when Rocket thinks fast and comes up with the only plan that could possibly stop the feral Thanos. He threatens Thanos with a weapon that is strong enough to put Thanos down for good, but Rocket only sets it at quarter power. He knows Thanos would welcome a death, but Rocket threatened him with eternal life in a coma held by the Guardians Telepaths. Rocket is one of the only characters in the entirety of the Marvel U to make Thanos feel fear.

Accuracy

Rocket can shoot with the best of Marvel, the difference here, is that he has better weapons then pretty much every other character (more on this later). Here's a few feats to show what he's capable of.

  • Look, even Hulk thinks Rocket's a good shot. Rocket saved Hulk from a killer robot clown that was sneaking up on Hulk. I thought this was fitting for this match.

Here's a few that shows Rocket's ability to shoot kill shots without even needing to look in the direction he shoots. He is able to perform all of this while in mid-flight.

  • Scan 1: Rocket is flying through space with rocket skates. He shoots a perfect kill shot while traveling at high speeds at a target behind him.
  • Scan 2: Rocket is again using rocket skates in a fight. He uses the energy projection of his one skate to take out an enemy ship while using his other hand to shoot down an enemy without looking.
  • Scan 3: Rocket dives over Groot while looking behind him at other attackers. He makes a kill shot at an enemy in front of him without looking forward. He then lands and shoots a clown behind him while focusing on the battle behind him.
  • Scan 4 & 5: Rocket takes out an entire Badoon ship on his own. He uses his rocket pack to fly at fast speeds through the ships hull. He shoots kill shots at two Badoon at the same time. He is only looking at one of his targets. He shoots another Badoon down while he is focusing on hacking into the Badoon ship.

Rocket is also capable of hitting fast moving targets at long range.

  • In these scans, Badoon ships are chasing Rocket and Groot.
  • The Badoon ships are fast enough to make the distance and catch up and destroy Rocket's ship
  • While outside the ship, Rocket and Groot are able to shoot this fast moving ship from a very long range.
  • Scan 1: Rocket shoots down a robotic bird at long range while riding a speeder bike. Both him and the bird are moving at high speeds, so this is an incredible shot.
  • Scan 2: If none of the other accuracy feats are good enough to show that he can tag fast moving targets, this one will do it. Rocket shoots the Human Rocket, Nova, while he is flying at very fast speeds. Sam Alexander in the issue just before this was fast enough to fly to the moon in the time it took him to say the words "too fast".

Weapon Strength

Now that I've shown that Rocket is capable of shooting opponents faster then either the Hulk or Spiderman can move, I'll show what will happen when those shots connect.

Scans 1, 2, & 3: These show what Rocket's modified laser pistols can do. The second scan shows a Badoon's head explode. The third shows him put down two Spartoi soldiers who are wearing armor.

Scans 4, 5 & 6: These show the Groot mounted cannon. Groot and Rocket work great together when Rocket climbs Groots branches. This weapon, Rocket can mount on Groot while firing heavy rounds. The first scan shows him blowing up a Phalanx droid. The next two show that the gun is capable of collapsing an entire Kree structure from the inside.

Scans 7, 8, & 9: These show Rocket's 5 barreled cannon. This cannon is capable of punching a hole the size of Groot in the side of a Badoon war ship. It is also capable of lighter damage if Rocket doesn't want to cause collateral damage (which is rare). He puts a good sized hole right through Gamora's torso.

Rocket also has a grenade he's carrying too.

Rocket built this grenade to be very explosive.

  • The creature in these scans is from the Cancerverse. The combined power of Adam Warlock and Phyla-Vel were not enough to contain this.
  • Rocket's grenade was strong enough to take out this monster.

Rocket's Strength and Agility

You're probably wondering how Rocket can carry this heavy weaponry and be effective in battle. Rocket Raccoon is often listed as having a Raccoon's strength and agility. This is really low-balling Rocket. I can prove that he is not only above a raccoon, but he is above peak human and possesses low level superhuman strength and agility. I'll post just a few scans, but I have tons of them that I can put on here if I need to.

Scans 1 & 2: Rocket makes huge acrobatic leaps with a gun big enough that it is too big for even a peak human character to carry like that. A peak human could hold and fire it, but Rocket is able to not only hold it, but make high flying acrobatic jumps, all while firing accurately.

Scans 3 & 4: Rocket has the strength to carry Gamora's body weight and sword. This may not be superhuman, but a normal raccoon couldn't even support the weight of the sword, let alone Gamora.

Scan 5: Another scan of Rocket doing a high acrobatic jump with a giant cannon.

Scan 6: Rocket is able to dodge Nova force shots. There are few characters in the Marvel U that can claim that feat.

Scan 7: Rocket does a flying jump kick while holding the massive 5-barreled cannon with just one hand during a bar fight. He is able to kick hard enough that the armored Spartoi soldiers head's flings back a good distance. A peak human would not be able to hold that gun with one hand, let a lone make a high flying jump kick at the same time. Rocket actually has some impressive hand to hand feats also. I'm not going to post them, because there is no reason he will try and engage in hand to hand in this battle.

Rocket's Durability / Toughness

Rocket is actually pretty durable for a little guy.

  • Scan 1: Rocket is thrown at high speeds against the metal walls of Knowhere by the very powerful Starhawk. The only reaction from him is saying "little help" to Starlord.
  • Scan 2: Rocket is shot in the arm, but it does not slow him down at all in this fight.
  • Scan 3: Rocket is blown to the side by Gladiator speed blitzing, but is left undamaged.

One more thing, Raccoon also has senses that are more enhanced then a humans.

Rocket can detect the scents of robotic clowns and a drakillar (a huge bat monster) before they even arrive.

That's enough for Rocket for now. On to...

Actually, I'll let him introduce himself

Thanks Groot!

What a perfect pair, a raccoon and a tree. Groot is an alien from the Planet X. I'll show you what he can do...

Dendrokinesis

Dendrokinesis is the power to manipulate wood. Any wood on the battle field, Groot has the ability to do some nifty stuff with.

  • Scan 1: Groot summons all of the wood from a nearby village. He uses it to absorb into his body. Groot was young at this point, and needed to absorb wood to grow (more on this later) I'm using this scan to show the extent of how much wood he can manipulate
  • Scan 2: Groot reveals that his Dendrokinesis is powerful enough to use the roots from a forest to make a net and carry an entire village all the way back to his home planet, Planet X.
  • Scan 3: Groot turns a forest into a walking army.
  • Scan 4: Groot sheds dupes of himself (more on that later). The dupes each take control of their own stick clown with dendrokinesis that Groot uses to start a small army. This scan also shows Groots ability to alter his body by growing extra limbs to hold three rifles and a mail room device Rocket stole.
  • Scan 5: Groot uses dendrokinesis to take control of an army of wooden Groot action figures to take down Mojo.

Dupes / Growth / Healing Factor

Groot has a very impressive size changing ability. He can be a miniature twig, a towering giant, or anything in between. He can use this ability to regrow any damage or shed dupes that can be as small as he decides to shed.

  • Scan 1: This is Groot attacking the Phalanx. Notice he is on his knee, so he is actually much larger then the massive Kree structures around him
  • Scans 2 & 3: Groot and Rocket get into a bar fight with Badoon. To escape, Groot instantly grows massive and crushes his way through the roof.
  • Scan 4: This shows that there is really no limit to his size. Groot grows to fill the entire Babel Spire. Mantis sets him on fire (more on this later) to take out the spire. The spire is several sky scrapers in size.
  • Scans 5 & 6: Groot is able to instantly alter his body and grow vines. The vines stretch hundreds of yards through a portal to the Cancerverse as a lanyard for Rocket Raccoon and Drax.
  • Scans 7 & 8: Groot is found by a farmer as about an inch tall in his sprig form. Her village is being attacked, and Groot grows to a giant in seconds to protect her village.
  • Scan 9: Groot is only a small sapling sprig here. He grows quickly when he hears the Spartoi guards. The next scene he is this size below.

Durability

Groot is very resistant to injury. He is also very resistant to fire. The only reason he was able to be lit on fire by Mantis, is because she used Pyrokinesis to alter his sap to become flammable. Groot has become stronger and more durable in his age too. One indication of this is that he can say little else then "I am Groot". This is because he has hardened to such a point, that his internal organs are not flexible enough for complicated speach. (He does have language that can be understood by trained ears like Rockets from the subtle passages of air that occur while he says "I am Groot".

  • Scans 1 & 2: Even when Groot is small, he can take a shot from advanced Kree weaponry without taking any visible damage.
  • Scan 3: Thanos does a double-fisted uppercut to Groot. Groot is left dazed, but without any injury.
  • Scan 4: Groot is hit by a speed blitzing Gladiator, but is left uninjured
  • Scans 5, 6, & 7: Groot is being burned at the stake. The stake is on fire, but Groot's body never catches fire. It can be seen in the 7th scan that his body is completely burn free.
  • Scans 8, 9, & 10: Groot is shot in the back by a laser cannon. It doesn't damage or hurt him. To prove it, Groot eats the next shot from the cannon. He literally eats it!

Groot should be able to shrug off anything your team can dish. If he can tank a shot from Thanos without showing any significant damage, he should be able to soak up hits from the Hulk.

Groot's Strength

Groot has the strength to put a hurting on even Hulk.

  • Scan 1: Groot crushes a Phalanx droid between his thumb and forefinger only
  • Scans 2 & 3: Groot swats down Phalanx droids while using his other arm to hold up a collapsing Kree structure from crushing the rest of his team.
  • Scans 4-7: Groot crushes giant-zombie-Badoon-monsters with ease. He decapitates a massive one in the last scan.
  • Scan 8: Groot punches Magus hard enough to hurt him. Magus retaliates with a magic blast that crushes Groot's arm, but this is something he can quickly instantly regrow.
  • Scans 9 & 10: Earlier in this post, I showed Groot growing vines to use as a lanyard. This giant worm creature from the Cancerverse bites it, and Groot is strong enough to pull him through the portal.
  • I have plenty of other scans for Groot's strength, but I'll save them for a later post (including one of him hurting Thanos)

Groot's Cannon

Groot has a massive cannon that he brings with him on a lot of missions with the Guardians. He doesn't rely on it, because he can do enough damage without a weapon, but this is what it's capable of.

  • Groot's cannon packs enough punch to hurt Thanos. Something with this power should put a huge hurting on Hulk if it doesn't outright KO or kill him.

Strategy

One of the biggest advantages Rocket and Groot have in this match, is morals. Both Rocket and Groot have no problem using their abilities to end lives. Rocket in the current series is sort of getting a Deadpool like rep by joking around while he kills. Hulk and Spiderman will ease up a bit, because they won't want to kill Rocket or Groot. Both Spiderman and Hulk have shown that they will not resort to killing even when their opponent is trying to kill them.

Anyways, this is what this raccoon and tree are going to do to take out Hulk and Spiderman.

First, Groot is going to put his cannon and Rocket's mounted cannon to the side for the moment. It's there for him if he needs it. I'm not worried about your team using it either. The weapons are too big or too complicated for your team to figure out how to use. Even Tony Stark admits his tech is at least a generation behind the Guardian's tech. Groot is going to make sheds of himself.

He is going to send an army of tiny shedded dupes of himself all over the battlefield. These dupes are going to seek out any wood and turn the wood into moving wooden weapons. Some of the mini Groots will run and hide and stay away from the action for the moment. The ones that find weapons won't do much damage to Hulk, but they will at least distract your team. They can definitely hurt Spiderman though. Let's say Spiderman tries to web swing towards my team. The telephone poles in the picture will swing back like gigantic baseball bats with mini Groots controlling them.

One of the mini Groots is going to be in one hand of Rocket Raccoon. This mini Groot will give Rocket one more tiny shed too that he will keep in his pocket. Rocket Raccoon will have his pistols holstered at the moment. His other hand will be holding the 5-barreled Cannon, which Rocket has shown he can hold like it weighs next to nothing in his hand. Rocket is going to use his rocket pack to fly into the air with mini Groot in hand. While your team is distracted with all of the nearby wood coming to life around them, Rocket is going to fly until he is over top of your team. If Spiderman or Hulk try and make a leap for him, they will get a mouthful of his Canon that leaves Groot sized holes in Badoon space ships.

When Rocket and Groot are above your team, he is going to surprise Hulk by throwing the mini Groot at him. While Groot is falling, Rocket will take out his laser pistol and use his incredible accuracy to start taking shots at Spiderman. Spiderman may be able to dodge them with his Spider Sense, but Rocket will be sure to aim the Cannon that he is holding in his other hand wherever Spiderman tries to land. The debris from that blast alone could kill Spiderman or at least KO him. Rocket can also use his cannon to shoot anywhere Spiderman tries to use as an anchor point for his webbing. Rocket should be able to kill, KO, or at least limit Spiderman's mobility with this strategy.

Groot on the other hand is falling towards Hulk. On the way down, he is going to grow into a giant and deliver Hulk a very unexpected beating. Quite similar to this:

If this strategy was enough to pound Thanos into the ground, it should be enough to at least KO the Hulk.

In Closing

  • Groot is sending mini Groot dupes all over the battlefield to control wood and turn them into weapons including the telephone poles that will be massive baseball bats
  • Some of the mini Groots are going to go hide
  • Rocket is going to take the main mini Groot and fly into the skies with his cannon.
  • Rocket will keep a tiny shed of the main Groot in his pocket.
  • When over top of your team, Rocket will throw Groot at the Hulk while he grows into a giant and KO's the Hulk on the way down
  • Rocket is going to Kill, KO, or at least contain Spiderman with his incredible accuracy and advanced weaponry while Groot does his thing

#6 Posted by Wolverine08 (38888 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be watching.

Online
#7 Posted by Veitha (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be watching too. First time I get to see a CaV involving Rocket and Groot.

#8 Edited by Wolfrazer (6103 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha said:

I'll be watching too. First time I get to see a CaV involving Rocket and Groot.

I was gonna say that lol, but quite. Looking to see what happens!

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#9 Posted by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: I am still getting more scans and I reply tomorrow(at maybe 7:00 pm where I live).

#10 Edited by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: I got Strength,Speed,and Durability feats down.But I still to get more Reflexes,Agility,and Misc feats.

#12 Posted by GhostRavage (8398 posts) - - Show Bio

*Grabs popc.... CHIPS!*

#13 Posted by Wolfrazer (6103 posts) - - Show Bio

Bumping this, cause I wanna see moar!

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#14 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

Reflexes/Speed

Your maybe thinking that Hulk should be a slow character like how a good amount that viners think so.He really isn't and have a some great speed feat recently(if not you were thinking then never).This is where Spider-Man shine in this debate.Even without Spider-Sense,Peter still shown to dodge bullets.Spider-Man is easily capable of dodging Rocket gun fire.Question how durable are the aliens that Rocket have killed with those weapons?And also the with Rocket and Gamera was training for Sam Alexander.Sam was a rookie Nova and didn't know how to fully control the Nova powers.

  • 1)Spider-Man dodge multiple lasers at once
  • 2)Spider-Man dodge a character that is made of light
  • 3)Can react enough that he can make a web shield that can tank a laser attack
  • 4)Dodge Electro lightning attacks
  • 5)Dodging Iron Man impluse attacks and Iron Man have a targeting computer
  • 6)Spider-Man have reflexes that are 40 times greater than Humans
  • 7)Dodging multiple machine gun fire
  • 8)Dodging multiple sniper fire
  • 9)Dodge a bullet at point blank range
  • 10)Dodge Electro lightning again
  • 11)Dodging Punisher machine gun fire at close range
  • 12)Sorry same scan as 7
  • 13)Dodge a bullet without facing front of the bullet
  • 14)Dodge lasers at close range
  • 1)Hulk was moving in blinding speed
  • 2)Hulk catch Captain America Shield
  • 3)Jack of Hearts comment that Hulk speed that was"No nobody could move that fast"
  • 4)Dodge a Bazooka at close range
  • 5)Speed Blitz in Blur movement
  • 6)Speed Blitz Iron Man
  • 7)Moving in a Blur
  • 8)More Blitzing
  • 9/10)Hulk Speed was rivaling Mjolnir speed

Strength/Durability/Webs

Then this where Hulk is going to shine the most here.Not saying that Spider-Man isn't going to shine too.Spider-Man is capable of tanking Groot punches.But strength and durability are Hulk main stick,but my computer is moving slow so I post his feats later.And I will do Spider-Man webs too and see how you think would Rocket counter it?

1)Lifting a Helicopter

2/3)Spider-Man easily pull two car and webs up a super human level character

4)Catch a car that Hulk threw

5)Pull a Train Car with his finger

6)Help support the weight a building

7)Lifting a Train over his head

8)Lifting a Bus over his Head

9)Taking a brutal beating from two members of the Phoenix Five(Four in that scan)

10)Spider-Man webs incap Wolverine who is a low level super human.

11)Sent Flash's Venom(Vulk)flying many yards away

12)Destroying a whole building

I'm saving other great scans for later and my computer is moving pretty slow today so I will post more scans tomorrow.

One of the biggest advantages Rocket and Groot have in this match, is morals. Both Rocket and Groot have no problem using their abilities to end lives. Rocket in the current series is sort of getting a Deadpool like rep by joking around while he kills. Hulk and Spiderman will ease up a bit, because they won't want to kill Rocket or Groot. Both Spiderman and Hulk have shown that they will not resort to killing even when their opponent is trying to kill them.

Are Rocket and Groot won't try to kill Spider-Man since they should Peter is a good guy and they should know that they can not kill Hulk because his Healing Factor is better than Wolverine's HF.

First, Groot is going to put his cannon and Rocket's mounted cannon to the side for the moment. It's there for him if he needs it. I'm not worried about your team using it either. The weapons are too big or too complicated for your team to figure out how to use. Even Tony Stark admits his tech is at least a generation behind the Guardian's tech. Groot is going to make sheds of himself.

Tony have been overwhelm by Peter before and he lost to Hulk many times.

He is going to send an army of tiny shedded dupes of himself all over the battlefield. These dupes are going to seek out any wood and turn the wood into moving wooden weapons. Some of the mini Groots will run and hide and stay away from the action for the moment. The ones that find weapons won't do much damage to Hulk, but they will at least distract your team. They can definitely hurt Spiderman though. Let's say Spiderman tries to web swing towards my team. The telephone poles in the picture will swing back like gigantic baseball bats with mini Groots controlling them.

Hulk can use his super breath or thunder clap(I get to those later)to destroy the tiny dupes.The question that can the dupes can survive a thunder clap from Hulk.Hulk thunder clap took out whole armies,KO Red Hulk,hurt Classic Hyperion,also hurt Gladiator,and etc?

One of the mini Groots is going to be in one hand of Rocket Raccoon. This mini Groot will give Rocket one more tiny shed too that he will keep in his pocket. Rocket Raccoon will have his pistols holstered at the moment. His other hand will be holding the 5-barreled Cannon, which Rocket has shown he can hold like it weighs next to nothing in his hand. Rocket is going to use his rocket pack to fly into the air with mini Groot in hand. While your team is distracted with all of the nearby wood coming to life around them, Rocket is going to fly until he is over top of your team. If Spiderman or Hulk try and make a leap for him, they will get a mouthful of his Canon that leaves Groot sized holes in Badoon space ships.

The dupes would be destroy by Hulk thunder clap and the thunder clap can hurt Groot and Rocket in the same blow.Hulk leap can move with a blinding speed which if Rocket did hit Hulk with the cannon.Hulk still can alright from the hit.

When Rocket and Groot are above your team, he is going to surprise Hulk by throwing the mini Groot at him. While Groot is falling, Rocket will take out his laser pistol and use his incredible accuracy to start taking shots at Spiderman. Spiderman may be able to dodge them with his Spider Sense, but Rocket will be sure to aim the Cannon that he is holding in his other hand wherever Spiderman tries to land. The debris from that blast alone could kill Spiderman or at least KO him. Rocket can also use his cannon to shoot anywhere Spiderman tries to use as an anchor point for his webbing. Rocket should be able to kill, KO, or at least limit Spiderman's mobility with this strategy.

If Rocket try to use the cannon on Spider-Man.Hulk speed should easily try to push Spider-Man from the attack and tank the attack.Peter is a genius and would try to get Hulk do the tanking of the lasers.Hank Pym said that Peter could be smarter than himself if Peter use his genius at it's fullest.

If this strategy was enough to pound Thanos into the ground, it should be enough to at least KO the Hulk.

In Thanos Quest #1,Thanos compare Champion who had Power Gem to Hulk and he stated that he try to devoid a fight against Hulk for a while.And Thanos wasn't serious hurt from Groot attack and Thanos still knock Groot down.

#15 Edited by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac:

Your maybe thinking that Hulk should be a slow character like how a good amount that viners think so.He really isn't and have a some great speed feat recently(if not you were thinking then never).

I never think of Hulk as a slow character. He has some great speed feats. None of his feats are faster then Nova though, even while he is young and in training, and that didn't stop Rocket from tagging him with a shot from his laser pistol. Rocket and Groot were both able to shoot a Badoon space ship from long range in mid-flight. I have scans of both of those in my previous post.

This is where Spider-Man shine in this debate.Even without Spider-Sense,Peter still shown to dodge bullets.Spider-Man is easily capable of dodging Rocket gun fire.

In my post above, I took account for Spider Man's ability to dodge Rocket's gun fire. I agree he will be able too. What Rocket will be doing, is keeping Spiderman contained. If Spiderman is busy dodging Rocket's lasers, he is not going to have a chance to be very effective in this fight. This allows Groot to do his extreme growing trick I explained above and do the same thing to Hulk that he did to Thanos and KO Hulk right away. Also, Rocket is able to hit Spiderman with more then lasers, Spiderman has to account for the huge amount of debris coming from the heavy weaponry's explosions. Rocket is also going to be shooting away any anchors Spiderman has for his webbing, taking away Spiderman's ability to web swing. With Spiderman essentially taken out of the fight, Groot can make short work of Hulk, and they can both turn their attention to Spiderman who will stand no chance to both Rocket and Groot. Groot can grab his heavy cannon and both him and Rocket can open fire on Spiderman and put him down. He isn't going to dodge the extremely wide blasts of Groot's cannon while Rocket is firing on him at the same time.

Question how durable are the aliens that Rocket have killed with those weapons?

Here he is putting down a Cardinal from the Universal Church of Truth. These are the same guys that are able to fight with the combined forces of the Annihilators and the Avengers combined. Starlord's weapons are unable to hurt them, and Starlord has better weapons then any Earth based Marvel character. Rocket Raccoon puts him down though. It took shots from Beta Ray Bill, Ronan, Quasar, Hulk, and Gladiator to hurt these guys. These guys powers are based on the amount of "faith" they have, and the Cardinals have extreme amounts that make them high level superhumans. In the images below Rocket putting one down, you can see that both the Quantum Sword and the God Killer Sword are blocked by their "faith". Rocket's guns hit harder then anything either Spiderman or Hulk have seen on Earth. That's not even one of his big guns like the cannon he is carrying in this round. See the scans above of him putting a Groot sized hole in the side of a Badoon ship. Rocket has also used his weapons on the Cancerverse versions of the Avengers and Defenders and put them down. The Cancerverse versions are basically the same as the 616 versions, but they are even harder to kill, because death does not exist in their universe, but Rocket helped put them down.

And also the with Rocket and Gamera was training for Sam Alexander.Sam was a rookie Nova and didn't know how to fully control the Nova powers.

He was no where near Richard Rider's ability, but he still had the speed of a Nova. That's all that mattered for those scans. Neither Spiderman or Hulk will ever move at the speed Sam Alexender does.

Then this where Hulk is going to shine the most here. Not saying that Spider-Man isn't going to shine too.Spider-Man is capable of tanking Groot punches.But strength and durability are Hulk main stick,but my computer is moving slow so I post his feats later.And I will do Spider-Man webs too and see how you think would Rocket counter it?

Hulk is very durable. No doubt there. But Groot has done this to the monster of Badoon.

And this to Thanos.

Hulk's durability is slightly higher then the monster of Badoon, but he is NOT as durable as Thanos. When Groot hits him, Hulk is going to feel it. He should be KO'd as soon as Rocket throws the fast growing mini Groot right a Hulk.

Groot has also taken out Cardinals of the Universal Church of Truth by stepping on them and has hit Magus hard enough to hurt him.

As far as Spiderman goes, it is just redundant to talk about his durability after Hulk's. His durability is no where near Hulk level. Groot will one shot him with a punch. Rocket will one shot him with his guns.

Are Rocket and Groot won't try to kill Spider-Man since they should Peter is a good guy

Rocket Raccoon and Groot have no qualms with killing. They don't really care as much about "right" and "wrong" like Earth based heroes do. The scope of the threats these guys face is so large, that individual lives like Spider Man's are very insignificant in their view point. They really will have no problem with it. Here's a post of Rocket almost killing Sam Alexender just because he called him a Raccoon. The only reason he didn't is because Gamora stopped him. (Gamora also usually wouldn't care, but they needed Nova alive)

and they should know that they can not kill Hulk because his Healing Factor is better than Wolverine's HF.

They don't need to kill him, just KO him.

Tony have been overwhelm by Peter before and he lost to Hulk many times.

Tony Stark's weapons and tech are sub-par to the Guardian's. Tony Stark even admits this. Iron Man has KO'd the Hulk before. Spiderman beat Iron Man in civil war when he was fighting close up with him. Rocket is not going to be close to Spiderman. If he gets too close to Rocket, he will regret it, because he is not dodging a point blank shot from his 5 barreled cannon that has a blast radius bigger then Iron Man's repulsor shots that Tony used against Spiderman. Rocket will not hesitate either, as I've already stated about Rocket not hesitating to kill.

Hulk can use his super breath or thunder clap(I get to those later)to destroy the tiny dupes.The question that can the dupes can survive a thunder clap from Hulk.Hulk thunder clap took out whole armies,KO Red Hulk,hurt Classic Hyperion,also hurt Gladiator,and etc?

I don't expect the dupes to survive a Thunderclap, but this is the response I expected from you. The dupes were only meant to be a distraction to let Rocket and the mini Groot he is carrying get into the air quickly and not have to deal with Hulk's thunderclaps. You have proven that this will work perfectly.

The dupes would be destroy by Hulk thunder clap and the thunder clap can hurt Groot and Rocket in the same blow.Hulk leap can move with a blinding speed which if Rocket did hit Hulk with the cannon.Hulk still can alright from the hit.

Hulk is going to be using his Thunderclap against the dupes. He is not going to be aiming it straight into the sky. If he does, the dupes can restrain him with any wood in the area. It would only be a slight distraction to Hulk, but enough to make a difference for Rocket to fly with the main Groot to get into the height he needs to be. Also, the second Hulk spreads his arms and opens his chest up to a shot from Rocket's 5 barreled cannon is bad news for the Hulk. It put a hole bigger then the size of Groot in a Badoon war ship. That would should put Hulk down. Even if it doesn't put him down, it's going to hurt him severely. He won't be using any Thunderclaps against Rocket and Groot. Rocket is also too smart to fall for something easy like that. He will know to watch for that and be ready to shoot with his cannon.

If Rocket try to use the cannon on Spider-Man.Hulk speed should easily try to push Spider-Man from the attack and tank the attack.Peter is a genius and would try to get Hulk do the tanking of the lasers.Hank Pym said that Peter could be smarter than himself if Peter use his genius at it's fullest.

Hulk will be busy with a newly grown giant Groot punching him into the ground to be helping Spiderman out. Also, you are really underestimating Rocket's weaponry. Hulk is not going to soak up that much damage. Rocket's weapons are designed to take on cosmic level threats. Hulk is not cosmic level. Even if it doesn't instantly put Hulk down, he is going to be left severely weakened for Groot to put an end to him. Hulk can heal, but he isn't going to get a chance to with Groot beating him down. As far as Parker's genius, I'll admit that he probably is a genius. He is a genius scientist though. He does not even come close to comparing when it comes to being a tactician and strategist which is what really matters in a battle. Starlord said that Rocket has the most strategic mind of anyone he has ever met, and Starlord has traveled across the entire Universe. Hank Pym is limited to meeting Earth based characters, Starlord has met the best the universe has to offer, and has put Rocket at the top of all of them as far as strategy goes. Starlord has met Tony Stark and Captain America too. Starlord was the head strategist against the Annihilation Wave, and he still thinks Rocket is a better strategist then him. When it comes to having a better strategy in this battle, Rocket and Groot are going to win every time. Speaking of intelligence, Groot has been taught by the highest respected instructors in the universe. He posed as monarch of Planet X, and got all of the perks that go with his royalty. Groot is actually extremely intelligent.

#16 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@homicidalmaniac:

I never think of Hulk as a slow character. He has some great speed feats. None of his feats are faster then Nova though, even while he is young and in training, and that didn't stop Rocket from tagging him with a shot from his laser pistol. Rocket and Groot were both able to shoot a Badoon space ship from long range in mid-flight. I have scans of both of those in my previous post.

I did say if you think not Hulk was slow then forget what I say.Sam Alexander moon speed feat should be counted as travel speed.And also how fast was the Badoon ship moving?It matter cause it would show light on the feat.

In my post above, I took account for Spider Man's ability to dodge Rocket's gun fire. I agree he will be able too. What Rocket will be doing, is keeping Spiderman contained. If Spiderman is busy dodging Rocket's lasers, he is not going to have a chance to be very effective in this fight.

I know you stated that Spider-Man is able to dodge Rocket gun fire.Spider-Man still have his webs and characters that have low super human strength like Wolverine was unable to break out.And Peter webs was able to trap Iron Man for a little while.

This allows Groot to do his extreme growing trick I explained above and do the same thing to Hulk that he did to Thanos and KO Hulk right away.

Hulk shouldn't be KO what Groot did to Thanos and after Groot was done Thanos sent Groot flying away.Then later the rest of the Avengers gang up on Thanos all at once and you can see Hulk had hit Thanos too.Hulk tank a planet being destroy.Hulk tank a One Hundred Trillion Tons punch from his son Skaar and wasn't KO.

Also, Rocket is able to hit Spiderman with more then lasers, Spiderman has to account for the huge amount of debris coming from the heavy weaponry's explosions. Rocket is also going to be shooting away any anchors Spiderman has for his webbing taking away Spiderman's ability to web swing.With Spiderman essentially taken out of the fight, Groot can make short work of Hulk, and they can both turn their attention to Spiderman who will stand no chance to both Rocket and Groot. Groot can grab his heavy cannon and both him and Rocket can open fire on Spiderman and put him down. He isn't going to dodge the extremely wide blasts of Groot's cannon while Rocket is firing on him at the same time.

What happen if Rocket run out of ammo.Spidey wouldn't allow him to get hit and sooner an later Rocket will run out of ammo.This fight would be all over the place and Peter wouldn't be a average joe when it come to his location.The fight is in Libery City(New York City)and if Rocket try to shoot out any anchors that web swing would work.Then Peter would find a new place where they are fighting.I already said that Groot wouldn't easily KO Hulk and Hulk can tank the cannon from Groot.

Here he is putting down a Cardinal from the Universal Church of Truth. These are the same guys that are able to fight with the combined forces of the Annihilators and the Avengers combined. Starlord's weapons are unable to hurt them, and Starlord has better weapons then any Earth based Marvel character. Rocket Raccoon puts him down though. It took shots from Beta Ray Bill, Ronan, Quasar, Hulk, and Gladiator to hurt these guys. These guys powers are based on the amount of "faith" they have, and the Cardinals have extreme amounts that make them high level superhumans. In the images below Rocket putting one down, you can see that both the Quantum Sword and the God Killer Sword are blocked by their "faith". Rocket's guns hit harder then anything either Spiderman or Hulk have seen on Earth. That's not even one of his big guns like the cannon he is carrying in this round. See the scans above of him putting a Groot sized hole in the side of a Badoon ship. Rocket has also used his weapons on the Cancerverse versions of the Avengers and Defenders and put them down. The Cancerverse versions are basically the same as the 616 versions, but they are even harder to kill, because death does not exist in their universe, but Rocket helped put them down.

Can you show me the CFTUCOT tanking hits from Beta Ray Bill,Ronan,Hulk,and others.It likely possible that not every member would have the same amount of Faith and they can easily lose faith too.He block Starlord guns with a shield and Rocket shot him from the back where he wasn't looking.How is the Cancerverse almost the same as the 616 Universe?The Marvel heroes in that universe were evil and didn't have Death.How did they compare to the 616 besides the No Death part?

He was no where near Richard Rider's ability, but he still had the speed of a Nova. That's all that mattered for those scans. Neither Spiderman or Hulk will ever move at the speed Sam Alexender does.

Sure Spider-Man and Hulk may not have flight powers,but Sam was still a freshman Nova member and didn't had full control.

Hulk is very durable. No doubt there. But Groot has done this to the monster of Badoon.

And this to Thanos.

Hulk's durability is slightly higher then the monster of Badoon, but he is NOT as durable as Thanos. When Groot hits him, Hulk is going to feel it. He should be KO'd as soon as Rocket throws the fast growing mini Groot right a Hulk.

Groot has also taken out Cardinals of the Universal Church of Truth by stepping on them and has hit Magus hard enough to hurt him.

Yeah,Hulk would feel Groot hits,but Groot is not as fast as Hulk in combat.Groot and Rocket were both speed blitz by Gladiator speed alone.Gladiator tried to speed blitz Hulk and Hulk broke out of it if I'm not mistaken.And how do Badoon durability compare to Hulks.

As far as Spiderman goes, it is just redundant to talk about his durability after Hulk's. His durability is no where near Hulk level. Groot will one shot him with a punch. Rocket will one shot him with his guns.

Spider-Man tank hits from two members of the Phoenix Five and he wasn't kill and wasn't KO.Spider-Man still tank hits from Groot without getting one shot.

Rocket Raccoon and Groot have no qualms with killing. They don't really care as much about "right" and "wrong" like Earth based heroes do. The scope of the threats these guys face is so large, that individual lives like Spider Man's are very insignificant in their view point. They really will have no problem with it. Here's a post of Rocket almost killing Sam Alexender just because he called him a Raccoon. The only reason he didn't is because Gamora stopped him. (Gamora also usually wouldn't care, but they needed Nova alive)

You know Spider-Man and Hulk(and Banner)are bubs with Iron Man and you could think that Tony would allow his fellow Earth heroes to be kill by Rocket.The Guardians help aid the Avengers before.The Avengers are currently dealing with Cosmic threats.And also I know that Tony is not in this fight.

Tony Stark's weapons and tech are sub-par to the Guardian's. Tony Stark even admits this. Iron Man has KO'd the Hulk before. Spiderman beat Iron Man in civil war when he was fighting close up with him. Rocket is not going to be close to Spiderman. If he gets too close to Rocket, he will regret it, because he is not dodging a point blank shot from his 5 barreled cannon that has a blast radius bigger then Iron Man's repulsor shots that Tony used against Spiderman. Rocket will not hesitate either, as I've already stated about Rocket not hesitating to kill.

I recall Iron Man only beat Hulk once.And the rest of the time Hulk won.A question is that can Rocket is capable of his weapon are not being pull away from Spidey webs.Spider-Man have rush Wolverine and Wolverine and Rocket are similar in some ways.Mind you,I know Rocket use energy weapons and Wolverine does not.

I don't expect the dupes to survive a Thunderclap, but this is the response I expected from you. The dupes were only meant to be a distraction to let Rocket and the mini Groot he is carrying get into the air quickly and not have to deal with Hulk's thunderclaps. You have proven that this will work perfectly.

Hulk is going to be using his Thunderclap against the dupes. He is not going to be aiming it straight into the sky. If he does, the dupes can restrain him with any wood in the area. It would only be a slight distraction to Hulk, but enough to make a difference for Rocket to fly with the main Groot to get into the height he needs to be. Also, the second Hulk spreads his arms and opens his chest up to a shot from Rocket's 5 barreled cannon is bad news for the Hulk. It put a hole bigger then the size of Groot in a Badoon war ship. That would should put Hulk down. Even if it doesn't put him down, it's going to hurt him severely. He won't be using any Thunderclaps against Rocket and Groot. Rocket is also too smart to fall for something easy like that. He will know to watch for that and be ready to shoot with his cannon.

Hulk Thunder Clap been stated to be nuclear level.Hulk TC sent Blastaar and his army flying,took out a hurricane,hurt Classic Hyperion an broke Dr. Spectrum's prism,and use his super breath to clear a whole forest.Spider-Man would try to tell Hulk that where can use the TC when to use it.Peter tell Hulk can use the Thunder Clap where Rocket and Groot are at and use his super breath to take out the few Dupes that remain after the TC.When Spidey see about to use his TC.Spidey would tried to get away from it.

Hulk will be busy with a newly grown giant Groot punching him into the ground to be helping Spiderman out. Also, you are really underestimating Rocket's weaponry. Hulk is not going to soak up that much damage. Rocket's weapons are designed to take on cosmic level threats. Hulk is not cosmic level. Even if it doesn't instantly put Hulk down, he is going to be left severely weakened for Groot to put an end to him. Hulk can heal, but he isn't going to get a chance to with Groot beating him down. As far as Parker's genius, I'll admit that he probably is a genius. He is a genius scientist though. He does not even come close to comparing when it comes to being a tactician and strategist which is what really matters in a battle. Starlord said that Rocket has the most strategic mind of anyone he has ever met, and Starlord has traveled across the entire Universe. Hank Pym is limited to meeting Earth based characters, Starlord has met the best the universe has to offer, and has put Rocket at the top of all of them as far as strategy goes. Starlord has met Tony Stark and Captain America too. Starlord was the head strategist against the Annihilation Wave, and he still thinks Rocket is a better strategist then him. When it comes to having a better strategy in this battle, Rocket and Groot are going to win every time. Speaking of intelligence, Groot has been taught by the highest respected instructors in the universe. He posed as monarch of Planet X, and got all of the perks that go with his royalty. Groot is actually extremely intelligent.

Hulk had face a couple of cosmic characters before.Hulk can heal from the cannon and weaker versions of 616 Hulk have shown great feats and one of his best healing feat.Eternity called Hank Pym one of the smartest people in the Marvel Universe.

Professor Hulk

Grey Hulk

#17 Posted by ComicStooge (12044 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy hell. GotG are actually pretty cool. O_o

#18 Posted by GhostRavage (8398 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy hell. GotG are actually pretty cool. O_o

Yeah, i got the same impression after seeing Tparks. I thought the only cool galactic guys were the Annihilators... But i was wrong.

#19 Posted by Wolfrazer (6103 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

Holy hell. GotG are actually pretty cool. O_o

Yeah, i got the same impression after seeing Tparks. I thought the only cool galactic guys were the Annihilators... But i was wrong.

For shame on the two of you! Anyway bumping this so as it can continue!

Online
#20 Posted by ComicStooge (12044 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@comicstooge said:

Holy hell. GotG are actually pretty cool. O_o

Yeah, i got the same impression after seeing Tparks. I thought the only cool galactic guys were the Annihilators... But i was wrong.

For shame on the two of you! Anyway bumping this so as it can continue!

I'll never insult GotG ever again.

#21 Posted by GhostRavage (8398 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer said:
@ghostravage said:

@comicstooge said:

Holy hell. GotG are actually pretty cool. O_o

Yeah, i got the same impression after seeing Tparks. I thought the only cool galactic guys were the Annihilators... But i was wrong.

For shame on the two of you! Anyway bumping this so as it can continue!

I'll never insult GotG ever again.

Me neither... Shame weights too much.

#22 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac: I'll get another response up tonight. It's been a busy week, but I think I should be able to find some time tonight.

#23 Edited by Wolfrazer (6103 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#24 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac: I did say if you think not Hulk was slow then forget what I say.Sam Alexander moon speed feat should be counted as travel speed.

That was Sam's travel speed that Rocket shot. What's important is that Rocket shot a target at a very long range that is moving incredibly fast. Nova moves much faster then Hulk or Spiderman possibly could.

And also how fast was the Badoon ship moving?It matter cause it would show light on the feat.

That ship caught up to Rocket's ship. Rocket had a huge lead before the Badoon ship took chase. It was moving very fast to catch up to Rocket's ship to destroy it. Rocket and Groot ejected and took it out right after they were in space. The target was incredibly long shooting a very high speed target.

I know you stated that Spider-Man is able to dodge Rocket gun fire.Spider-Man still have his webs and characters that have low super human strength like Wolverine was unable to break out.And Peter webs was able to trap Iron Man for a little while.

Spiderman will never get close enough to Rocket to web him. Spiderman was able to web Iron Man because it was in an enclosed area. This location is wide open. Rocket has a lot of room to keep his distance. Spiderman is able to dodge Rocket's shots from far away, but if he wants to get close enough to web the fast moving Rocket, he is going to get shot by Rocket's 5 barreled cannon which will kill Spiderman. I don't think Parker is dumb enough to try this, but Rocket would welcome this challenge as it would be a very easy win for him.

Hulk shouldn't be KO what Groot did to Thanos and after Groot was done Thanos sent Groot flying away.Then later the rest of the Avengers gang up on Thanos all at once and you can see Hulk had hit Thanos too.

Why can't Groot do this to Hulk? When the Avengers/Guardians were traveling to Earth, they had a plan to take down Thanos. They had the best strategist in the Marvel U: Captain America, Iron Man, Rocket Raccoon, and Starlord. All of these characters agreed that Groot was the guy for the job of beating down Thanos and grounding him. Hulk was there, if he was the better option, they would have used him. Out of all of the Avengers and Guardians, including Hulk, Groot was able to put the more impressive beating on Thanos. This will be a KO on Hulk.

Hulk tank a One Hundred Trillion Tons punch from his son Skaar and wasn't KO.

What? One Hundred Trillion Tons? Do you know how much that is? Skaar is not even close to that. Have you ever seen how many zeros are in that? 100,000,000,000,000 tons. That is over a trillion tons stronger then the Hulk.

What happen if Rocket run out of ammo.

I've read everything Rocket has been in, and never seen him run out of ammo. He's taken on entire armies without reloading. I don't even know if his guns can run out of ammo. If you can find scans of him running out of ammo, then I will consider this.

I already said that Groot wouldn't easily KO Hulk and Hulk can tank the cannon from Groot.

If Hulk does tank this cannon, he is going to be hurting bad. Groot is not going to just shoot him once either, he will unload on him until he can come in close to give a physical beating to the weakened Hulk. His cannon is able to hurt Thanos, Hulk isn't shrugging this off.

Can you show me the CFTUCOT tanking hits from Beta Ray Bill,Ronan,Hulk,and others.It likely possible that not every member would have the same amount of Faith and they can easily lose faith too.He block Starlord guns with a shield and Rocket shot him from the back where he wasn't looking.

I don't have access to my Annihilators scans at the moment, but this was the enemy that the Annihilators and the Avengers faced in Earth Fall.

How is the Cancerverse almost the same as the 616 Universe?The Marvel heroes in that universe were evil and didn't have Death.How did they compare to the 616 besides the No Death part?

The Cancerverse was on a parallel universe with 616, up until the point that Mar-Vell died. Mar-Vell defeated death in the Cancerverse, and this is where the universe took an alternate path. The Cancerverse characters have the same abilities and powers as the 616 counterparts, but they are harder to be put down permanently because Death does not exist for them.

Sure Spider-Man and Hulk may not have flight powers,but Sam was still a freshman Nova member and didn't had full control.

But he is still a whole lot faster then Hulk and Spiderman will ever be. It doesn't really matter how long he has been moving at incredible speeds, what matters is that he was moving at incredible speeds at a long range, but Rocket still shot him down. This is becoming a broken record, but you have nothing to argue this other then he hasn't flown fast for that long. It doesn't matter how long he has been doing it, just that he was doing it.

I recall Iron Man only beat Hulk once.And the rest of the time Hulk won.A question is that can Rocket is capable of his weapon are not being pull away from Spidey webs.

Already covered this, Spiderman will never get close enough to use his webs.

Spider-Man have rush Wolverine and Wolverine and Rocket are similar in some ways.Mind you,I know Rocket use energy weapons and Wolverine does not.

Rocket and Wolverine are about as different as can be. Rocket is flying here. Wolverine can't fly. I have no idea what similarities exist between these too. Wolverine is a martial artist scrapper. Rocket is a genius tactician, weapons expert, demolitions expert, and has flight abilities. Your comparison with Wolverine has nothing to do with this battle.

Hulk Thunder Clap been stated to be nuclear level.

The narration may say that, but it is not anywhere near nuclear level, just look at your scans. Those scans are only affecting a small scale, and not even a fraction of nuclear. The text may say that in the image, but the picture says a lot more and it is not anywhere near the level of nuclear. All of the scans you show also do not show Hulk hitting air born targets while he is aiming at the ground. You said previously he would use his thunderclap to take out the Groot dupes on the ground. Rocket and the main Groot are going to be in the sky. That was my main strategy to use the Groot dupes to protect against a cheese strategy of an early Thunderclap, and it's worked.

Closing

I think I've said enough to prove Groot and Rocket are just too much for Hulk and Spiderman. Hulk is somewhat of a threat, but Rocket and Groot have faced far worst then these two. These two would not even be a concern for the Guardians if they were in the Cosmic U. If Spiderman and Hulk were to try and threaten the Cosmic Marvel U, the Guardians probably wouldn't even take the call because it would be so far below them.

Groot's durability, healing, dendrokinesis, duplication, size manipulation and strength are just too much for Hulk. Hulk could maybe take Groot in a straight up fight, but not when Rocket's on his side.

Rocket's genius in strategy is what really wins this. He is putting himself and Groot in a much more advantageous position to win. Rocket is making Groot's size changing ability and strength too much for the Earth based team. His weapons are also on a level that these two have never experienced before. To be honest, I could make this easy and just say Rocket flys over, and throws his grenade for a quick win. His grenade was able to put down a creature that neither Warlock or Phyla-Vell could while they combined their power.

Also, even if Hulk manages to take out Groot (very unlikely in this situation), all Groot has to do is grow himself again from one of the sheds that hid from the start of the battle. These would have been out of the blast field of the thunderclap. Also, Rocket has a shed in his pocket he can take out for Groot to grow from. Groot will be pretty much endless in this fight, not that I think he needs to.

Rocket and Groot have a huge variety of options and backup plans to win this fight. They also have the ace in the hole with Rocket's grenade. Anything your team tries to do, the two Guardians have a counter for.

I'm ready for voting, unless you have more to add.

#26 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

That was Sam's travel speed that Rocket shot. What's important is that Rocket shot a target at a very long range that is moving incredibly fast. Nova moves much faster then Hulk or Spiderman possibly could.

Sam wasn't using the speed that he use for the Moon.Sam was using his basic speed for a Rookie Nova.

Spiderman will never get close enough to Rocket to web him. Spiderman was able to web Iron Man because it was in an enclosed area. This location is wide open. Rocket has a lot of room to keep his distance. Spiderman is able to dodge Rocket's shots from far away, but if he wants to get close enough to web the fast moving Rocket, he is going to get shot by Rocket's 5 barreled cannon which will kill Spiderman. I don't think Parker is dumb enough to try this, but Rocket would welcome this challenge as it would be a very easy win for him.

Spider-Man can always come close to Rocket when he's reloading.If Rocket try to pull the cannon out,Spidey can web Rocket hands together.Spidey webs are fast enough to tag Wolverine and Shadowland Daredevil(An Amp Daredevil)and I can get that DD scan of it if you want.

Why can't Groot do this to Hulk? When the Avengers/Guardians were traveling to Earth, they had a plan to take down Thanos. They had the best strategist in the Marvel U: Captain America, Iron Man, Rocket Raccoon, and Starlord. All of these characters agreed that Groot was the guy for the job of beating down Thanos and grounding him. Hulk was there, if he was the better option, they would have used him. Out of all of the Avengers and Guardians, including Hulk, Groot was able to put the more impressive beating on Thanos. This will be a KO on Hulk.

I did not say that Groot would not do that to Hulk.I said it would not KO Hulk how you said it to be.I think if they replace Groot with Hulk.The results should still be the same.

What? One Hundred Trillion Tons? Do you know how much that is? Skaar is not even close to that. Have you ever seen how many zeros are in that? 100,000,000,000,000 tons. That is over a trillion tons stronger then the Hulk.

Skarr was taking energy from the Earth with the Old Power If I'm not mistaken.Savage Hulk had lift over 1 Billion Tons and always been stated to have about unlimited strength.Even the Beyonder believed that Hulk strength is unlimited(I don't have the scan).So the Trillion kinetic punch wouldn't be a stretch.

Mad Thinker also think that Hulk strength is incalculable

I've read everything Rocket has been in, and never seen him run out of ammo. He's taken on entire armies without reloading. I don't even know if his guns can run out of ammo. If you can find scans of him running out of ammo, then I will consider this.

That could be a comic thing where you never/rarely see a character reloading a weapon.

If Hulk does tank this cannon, he is going to be hurting bad. Groot is not going to just shoot him once either, he will unload on him until he can come in close to give a physical beating to the weakened Hulk. His cannon is able to hurt Thanos, Hulk isn't shrugging this off.

I recall Thanos was sorta depower when he tank Groot cannon.

I don't have access to my Annihilators scans at the moment, but this was the enemy that the Annihilators and the Avengers faced in Earth Fall.

I do want to see those scans of them tanking hits from Marvel Heavy Hitters.

The Cancerverse was on a parallel universe with 616, up until the point that Mar-Vell died. Mar-Vell defeated death in the Cancerverse, and this is where the universe took an alternate path. The Cancerverse characters have the same abilities and powers as the 616 counterparts, but they are harder to be put down permanently because Death does not exist for them.

Where do they said on panel that the Cancerverse is the same as the 616.Because the Marvel Multiverse have Universes that are weaker than the 616.

But he is still a whole lot faster then Hulk and Spiderman will ever be. It doesn't really matter how long he has been moving at incredible speeds, what matters is that he was moving at incredible speeds at a long range, but Rocket still shot him down. This is becoming a broken record, but you have nothing to argue this other then he hasn't flown fast for that long. It doesn't matter how long he has been doing it, just that he was doing it.

I went over this.Another question that Groot can tag Spider-Man?

Already covered this, Spiderman will never get close enough to use his webs.

I went over this too about the closer range.

Rocket and Wolverine are about as different as can be. Rocket is flying here. Wolverine can't fly. I have no idea what similarities exist between these too. Wolverine is a martial artist scrapper. Rocket is a genius tactician, weapons expert, demolitions expert, and has flight abilities. Your comparison with Wolverine has nothing to do with this battle.

I didn't say that Rocket and Wolverine are the exact same.Rocket and Wolverine have similar hearing,smelling,strength,and few others.

The narration may say that, but it is not anywhere near nuclear level, just look at your scans. Those scans are only affecting a small scale, and not even a fraction of nuclear. The text may say that in the image, but the picture says a lot more and it is not anywhere near the level of nuclear. All of the scans you show also do not show Hulk hitting air born targets while he is aiming at the ground. You said previously he would use his thunderclap to take out the Groot dupes on the ground. Rocket and the main Groot are going to be in the sky. That was my main strategy to use the Groot dupes to protect against a cheese strategy of an early Thunderclap, and it's worked.

Dr. Spectrum's and his prism was in the sky an I think the Hurricane was too and Hulk Thunder Clap affected them.The Clap can effect characters on the ground and in the sky.Everything around the Hulk was destroy in that scan and you think don't it was near nuclear.

I think I've said enough to prove Groot and Rocket are just too much for Hulk and Spiderman. Hulk is somewhat of a threat, but Rocket and Groot have faced far worst then these two. These two would not even be a concern for the Guardians if they were in the Cosmic U. If Spiderman and Hulk were to try and threaten the Cosmic Marvel U, the Guardians probably wouldn't even take the call because it would be so far below them.

You think that you proven enough that Groot and Rocket will win.So do mean that your done debating?Spider-Man and Hulk mainly care about the Earth.But they join in the Cosmic battles if the threat effect Earth.

Groot's durability, healing, dendrokinesis, duplication, size manipulation and strength are just too much for Hulk. Hulk could maybe take Groot in a straight up fight, but not when Rocket's on his side.

Hulk can edge out against Groot in Durability,Healing,Strength,Speed,and maybe intelligence if Hulk also had Banner mind in Savage Form.

Rocket's genius in strategy is what really wins this. He is putting himself and Groot in a much more advantageous position to win. Rocket is making Groot's size changing ability and strength too much for the Earth based team. His weapons are also on a level that these two have never experienced before. To be honest, I could make this easy and just say Rocket flys over, and throws his grenade for a quick win. His grenade was able to put down a creature that neither Warlock or Phyla-Vell could while they combined their power.

Rocket may have a amazing strategy mind,but it can took him so far the mid-battle.Black Panther have great intelligence(near Reed Richard level)and a great strategy mind too,but he can't beat the likes of the Hulk without prep.Hulk could leap up and catch Rocket before Rocket throw the grenade and Hulk have catch Jack of Hearts with his leaps.And Hulk is able to jump into Orbit.

Also, even if Hulk manages to take out Groot (very unlikely in this situation), all Groot has to do is grow himself again from one of the sheds that hid from the start of the battle. These would have been out of the blast field of the thunderclap. Also, Rocket has a shed in his pocket he can take out for Groot to grow from. Groot will be pretty much endless in this fight, not that I think he needs to.

Groot can try to keep getting bigger,but Hulk will keep getting angrier and angrier and get to the point that Groot is no longer the same strength level as Hulk.Professor Hulk is able to fight for days and that version of the Hulk is weaker than Savage Hulk.

I'm ready for voting, unless you have more to add.

Don't worry this is my last

#28 Posted by Shawnbaby (10455 posts) - - Show Bio

Homicidal Maniac gets my vote.

#29 Edited by Wolfrazer (6103 posts) - - Show Bio

Goin with Tparks on this.

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#30 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

1-1

#31 Posted by GhostRavage (8398 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac Gets my vote. @tparks You did quite good, it was pretty close to me. Anyway, i would like to read more about Gotg now. Kudos.

#32 Posted by Lvenger (18429 posts) - - Show Bio

A really great debate but @tparks gets my vote. He outlined a better strategy, supported his case very well and countered his opponent's points expertly that related to how these characters would act in that fight. And I'm very impressed with his knowledge of two members of Gotg and I'm beginning to think this fight could swing in their favour without tparks' arguing for it. Well done to the both of you!

#33 Posted by MasterAction (632 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks is the winner here in my eyes, his strategy was solid and he used scans well

#34 Posted by ComicStooge (12044 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll say @tparks. His counters for his opponents strategies were about as spot on as one could make and his strategy was well thought out.

#35 Posted by Visemoon (333 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Posted by DarkRaiden (6560 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks gets my vote as he debated better, not sure who'd actually win but hey. Also....It's

HM= 3

TP = 4, now 5 with my vote.

#38 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Thanks, and thanks for catching that I put the numbers backwards. lol

#39 Posted by jwalser3 (4798 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll get to this later today.

#40 Posted by light47 (252 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by jwalser3 (4798 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

tparks for me

#44 Posted by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#46 Posted by ComicStooge (12044 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks:

Can you recommend a goof place to start with GotG?

#47 Edited by tparks (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@tparks:

Can you recommend a goof place to start with GotG?

If you want to pick up with their new stuff, you could just jump on where Marvel Now started. They only briefly refer to their past.

If you want to read their BEST stuff, read Guardians of the Galaxy Vol:1 Legacy by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning and continue reading up until the end of Thanos: Imperative. GotG Vol1 is when they officially started the new team.

If you want to read from their unofficial start, start with Annihilation Conquest: Starlord and then the Annihilation: Conquest event and then move on to GotG Vol 1: Legacy.

If you can afford it, I would recommend reading all of DnA's cosmic run from the first Annihilation event all the way through Thanos Imperative. I haven't read anything I like better by Marvel then the stuff they did with Nova and GotG during this epic cosmic run. Here's a pretty good reading order if your interested. http://imgur.com/a/wXadC

#48 Posted by ComicStooge (12044 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@comicstooge said:

@tparks:

Can you recommend a goof place to start with GotG?

If you want to pick up with their new stuff, you could just jump on where Marvel Now started. They only briefly refer to their past.

If you want to read their BEST stuff, read Guardians of the Galaxy Vol:1 Legacy by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning and continue reading up until the end of Thanos: Imperative. GotG Vol1 is when they officially started the new team.

If you want to read from their unofficial start, start with Annihilation Conquest: Starlord and then the Annihilation: Conquest event and then move on to GotG Vol 1: Legacy.

If you can afford it, I would recommend reading all of DnA's cosmic run from the first Annihilation event all the way through Thanos Imperative. I haven't read anything I like better by Marvel then the stuff they did with Nova and GotG during this epic cosmic run. Here's a pretty good reading order if your interested. http://imgur.com/a/wXadC

Thanks. I know you've created respect threads for Groot and Rocket Raccoon, but is Peter Quill worth respecting too?

#49 Posted by Wolfrazer (6103 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Well actually I created the former, he created the latter. :P

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#50 Posted by ComicStooge (12044 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Well actually I created the former, he created the latter. :P

Oops, sorry dude.