Thor_Parker82
VS
SirFizzWhizz
Rules
- Random Encounter
- In character
- No BFR
- Win by KO or death
- Voters must have 800+posts to vote
Characters
Thor_Parker82: 616 Spider-Man and Daredevil
SirFizzWhizz: Ultimate Steve Rogers and Ultimate Doctor Octopus
CaV: Spider-Man & Daredevil (TP82) vs Ult Cap & Ock (SFW)
@thor_parker82 said:
Alright. I will kick it off with simple intros.
Dr. Otto Octavious was your average worker, working for Norman Osborn. He help developed and create the Oz formula that created Green Goblin, Hob Goblin, Spider man, and Miles. through genetic cloning he recreated Carnage and Gwen, as well Spider Woman. Needless to say he is a genius mind, and just as bad with his anger. After the accident that made Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus found himself mentally linked up with his special harness. It was not till half a year later he realize this was not his power at all, but rather a specific form of magnetism with his mind. For a long time he held a grudge against Spider Man, and Hammer industries. however that focus soon shifted to Green Goblin himself, and that was the end of poor Octoavious. He really was not a bad guy, just made very bad decisions out of anger. Doc Ock started off a scientist, then crazed villain, and ended up finally under the FBI as their leading Super Soldier researcher.
His powers are pretty complicated, but he is able to magnetically able to manipulate objects around him to form his tentacles which he favors above all else as weapons and tools. while his original harness provided weapon modes, the Doc Ock I am using exchange that for some neat Magnetic power. He may not look like much, but he is strong, fast, and most importantly deadly in the role of support.
Ultimate Captain America. Defender of truth, Justice, and soccer moms. Once he beats you to a inch of your life, he will then kick you when you are down. Not like your typical Captain America, this one is a total ruthless soldier out to kill you, or maim you at best if you are the wrong side of the fight as him. He is the hero of WW2, leader of the Ultimates, and was even President of the United States as his many accomplishments. Packing his meta human stats, insane skills, kevlar armor, assault rifle, grenades, and trademark shield. There is not much to stand in the way of this original Super Soldier.
Ultimate Cap relies on his great stats, tactical genius, and skills to beat foes. Always armed with his trusty shield, and some modern day fire power he will charge the foe as the assault guy. He still fills a leadership role though by shouting orders in combat, and will keep this team fine tune for the fight to come.
The Fight Itself
I really do not like making openers with a set goal in mind, but this will be a straight forward fight. Both teams getting fist to cuffs as per character. I can see Spider man wanting to go after Doc Ock, but I know Cap is the guy who would rather go after Spider Man knowing him best. IMO you have the strongest player in Spider Man, and the weakest in Daredevil. Both my guys in between. Whoever DD fights will win, and whoever Spidey fights will lose. So the real argument already is can either my guys last against Spider Man, and will the other beat DD quick enough?
I think so. So with that in mind, I will let ya have your into post, or simply get into the debate itself.
Intro
Peter Benjamin Parker was born to C.I.A. agents Richard and Mary Parker, who were killed when Peter was very young. After the death of his parents, Peter was raised by his Uncle Ben and Aunt May in a modest house in Forest Hills, New York. While still in High School, Peter attended a science exhibition about radiology where he was bitten by a radioactive spider, granting him the proportionate strength and agility of a spider as well as a " Spider-Sense" that warns him of nearby danger. In order to test his new abilities – and earn some cash, Peter participated in a wrestling challenge against Crusher Hogan. He easily won the challenge and also gained the attention of the media. Afterwards while backstage, Peter saw a burglar run past him but did nothing to stop him as it wasn’t his problem. Later that night when Peter arrived home, he was told by a policeman that his Uncle Ben had been murdered by someone who broke into their house. The cop mentioned they had tracked the killer to a warehouse. In his anger Peter put on his wrestling costume and went after the murderer himself. After arriving at the warehouse and easily defeating Uncle Ben’s killer, Peter saw that it was the same burglar he didn’t stop at the arena… thus learning that "with great power comes great responsibility".
Matt Murdock was raised in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood of New York City, by his father, boxer "Battlin" Jack Murdock. From a young age, Matt was pushed to work hard in school so he wouldn't have to fight like his father. His father worked hard to provide for him so he would have a better life. As boxing work became scarce, Jack went to work for a local mobster, the Fixe, moonlighting as an enforcer in addition to taking fights. While his father was away, Matt secretly started training himself on his father's equipment.
While walking down a street one day, Matt noticed a blind man was about to get hit by a truck. He ran in front of the truck, and pushed the blind man out of the way. However, the truck was carrying radioactive waste, and some spilled out directly onto Matt's eyes causing him to go blind. With his vision gone, Matt's remaining senses of hearing, touch, taste, and smell became heightened, and he was able to "see" using a "radar" sense, that showed outlines and shapes. The radiation also may have had an impact on his mind as well, allowing him to retain information easily.
Matt continued with his studies and his secret training regime. His hard work paid off when he got into Columbia to study law. It was there that he met his roommate and future business partner Franklin "Foggy" Nelson. During this time, Jack Murdock was enjoying some success in the boxing ring, so Matt got tickets for himself and Franklin to go see a bout. However, before the fight Jack found out that all his matches were fixed, and he was going to get killed if he didn't fix the match. Jack didn't want to lose his match in front of his son in the audience, so he went against his orders to fix the match and won. The Fixer did not take this well, and so he took matters into his own hands. Jack Murdock came out after the match and was trying to go home. But, he was murdered minutes that night.
Shortly after, Matt and Nelson graduated from Columbia and started their own law firm Nelson & Murdock right away. After graduation, Matt also devised a plan to avenge his father's death. He made the Daredevil costume, and brought The Fixer and his second-in-command Slade to justice. Thus "the Man Without Fear" was born.
The Fight
I have the strongest character in this CaV which is Spider-Man, he´s stronger, faster, more agile and more durable than both of your characters, he is certaincly the game changer here. Daredevil may be the weakest here but he is certainly not "weak" at all, he can much more than hold his own against either opponent. In this fight, Doctor Octopus would choose to fight Spider-Man due to their rivalry, even though they are from different universes they know each other really well and what they´re capable of doing, besides that´s the obvious choice, the stronger character in your team versus the strongest in my team, this would leave Daredevil against Ultimate Cap, and I am sure that Matt would give Steve all kinds of hell. I am extremely sure my team would/will win this fight with Spider-Man being the MVP.
@thor_parker82: Alright, been awhile, been swarm with work now and other CaVs.
Doc Ock
OK, lets establish this already, Dock Ock vs 616 Spider Man. Typical. Doc Ock has been beaten by Ultimate Spider man in the past, but has done the vice versa as well. In fact he dealt with 3 Ultimate Spiders at the same time, killing one, and forcing the other two to team up. Doc Ock even took down Ultimate Green Goblin once, and dealt with the Ultimates in a heated match. needless to say, he been beaten by a "inferior" Spider Man before, but he only gotten better with time. In this match its the recent Doc Ock, the version that understood how his powers work. The pre version relied on his versatile harness, this version is more of a weak depowered Magneto, but still good at what he does. In this case he will engage with his arms like he always does, keeping pace with webbing to the body. Yes this Peter is stronger, however thats not playing a role IMO. I also do not think 616 Peter is faster than Ultimate by feats truth be told. So really this Peter only has experience, and strength over what Doc Ock is use too, and that can be compensated for. So all in all my Argument for Doc Ock is his ability to "hang in there" till Cap deal decisively with Daredevil.
Captain America
Captain America vs DD is the real argument in my opinion. Its a fight that Cap will win, and the argument is how long till he wins. Will he win faster than Spidey can deal with Doc Ock? Oh yeah. The stats are clearly in Caps corner, the gear is as well. So what left but skill? Many think DD probaly beats Cap in that alone. Not so. Cap may not be the most documented in martial arts, neither is DD to be fair, but Caps feats in skill IMO more than match DD. Cap is a insane genius in fighting, warfare, and tactics. He is a genius in finding a weak spot, minimizing someones strength, and above all using what he has for a win.
Ultimate Cap is ALOT like Deathstroke in the fact he is not a acclaim martial artist, but is super intelligent in fights, and holds his own against the best fighters with no problem. Add in all the gear here like Shield, Guns, and Grenades that Cap uses is a bonus. All this is proven when we see him lead dysfunctional teams against impossible odds, and beats down a whole Avengers team by himself alone while holding back. He is just that damn clever in a pinch. I can see Cap more than keeping up, and matching DD skill till the overwhelming stats come into play, and he uses superior gear to get a advantage.
Round 1
"Your Friendly Neighborhood" and The Man Without Fear", two amazing characters with amazing abilities, over the course of the years, they have showed us how to be a hero, to do always the right thing even though it may bring you consequences, they have showed us that no matter what we have been through, how much we have suffered, we can always get back on our feet and smile. So now, let´s get to the debate, let´s see why Spider-Man and Daredevil would win in an encounter against Doc Ock and Captain America from the Ultimate Universe.
Spider-Man :
Here is a list of his powers and how they work.
- Spider-Sense: The greatest of Spidey's abilities, Spider-Sense is a "danger sense", a tingling in the back of his skull that acts similar to combat precognition, increasing his reaction time and spatial awareness.
Superhuman Strength: Peter can bench press nearly 20 tons without effort, and is capable of lifting more under stress. He has to actively pull his punches, or risk killing common thugs.
Superhuman Agility: Spidey also has incredible reflexes. He can casually dodge automatic fire, move faster than the finest human athletes, and also jump incredible distances.
Superhuman Durability: Spidey has incredible durability against blunt trauma, having tanked blows from people like Hulk, Venom, and Rhino with minimal adverse effects. When he once decided to tense his abdominal muscles against a trained boxer, it broke the boxer's wrists, so he has to roll with his opponent's punches to avoid permanently injuring him.
Wall Crawling: One of Spidey's most iconic abilities, Spidey can stick to walls and climb them. Although he can hold up several tons of force with each finger, his upper limits haven't yet been established.
Superhuman Stamina: Pete's muscles produce less fatigue toxins than ordinary humans, allowing him to exert himself for days on end.
Healing Factor: Although not as strong as Wolverine or Deadpool's, Spider-Man's healing factor is impressive in it's own right. He can heal from bullet wounds, broken bones, and concussions in a matter of days, versus the amount of time it would take an average human.
Superhuman Intellect: Although not granted to him as a side effect of the radioactive spider bite, Peter's greatest asset is his incredible mind. Peter is one of the smartest people in the entire Marvel Universe, with Reed Richards admitting that Spidey was just as smart as he was at Pete's age.
It is safe to say that Spider-Man (Peter Parker) is the peak of street level heroes, he is the best in his tier and has more than enough feats to support that claim, he has tons of showings demonstrating his ability, speed, skills, strength and much more, so let´s get to the feats to show you what I am talking about.
Spider-Man is definitely the most powerful character in this battle, I honestly think that Peter would be able to solo this match, so having another character to help, and that character being the goddamn "Man Without Fear" is going to assure my win here. Let´s see a couple of strength showings for Spider-Man.
Gallery
In the first scan, you can see Hulk throwing a car at Spider-Man, what is impressive here is the fact that Peter catches the car without really showing any kind of difficulty, simply stoping the car by putting his hands in fron of it wouñd have been impressive, but it becomes even more when you take into account he actuallt catched it, not impressive enough ? Well, the car was thrown by Hulk, one of the strongest heroes on the planet, so the car was going with a lot, and I mean a lot of force behind, and Peter not only stopeed its momentum, he catched and held the car for a while.
In the second scan you can see Spidey lifting part of a train in order to save a man who was trapped, again, Peter did not show any kind of difficulty while doing so, meaning he is capable of far more, and he has in fact showed he can do much more, but I am going to save that for the next round. With this two scans, it is clear who is the strongest character in this CaV, and that´s Spider-Man.
Let´s take a look at another category in which Peter is also, by far, the best, and that´s durability, Spidey has shown he is capable of tanking hits from extremely powerful opponents and still get back up and continue fighting, he know how to ignore pain and focus on what he needs to do, he has stated several times to suffer from migraines while fighting an enemy but ignored the pain and still fight like he was completely fine, that itself is EXTREMELY impressive, take it from someone who suffers migraines (me), it´s impossible to move a finger when you have these terrible headaches, let alone get on your feet, run and fight some powered thugs.
Now let´s take a look at some scans. During the early issues of Strazcynski´s Spider-Man, a new villain was introduced, probably the most powerful villain in Spidey´s rogue gallery, his name is Morlun, someone who lives by consuming the life force of spider-powered people. In his encounter against Spider-Man, when Morlun punched him, Peter stated that those hits were more powerful than Hulk´s and Thor´s punches, while that may seem like an exaggeration on Peter´s par, it is not, don´t get me wrong, I can assure you Hulk and Thor punch harder than Morlun, but Spider-Man did in fact felt like he was getting punched by Hulk because Morlun was taking part of his life force with each hit, so while he didn´t actually received punches by someone as powerful as Hulk, it still counts as tanking hits from someone as strong, due to his life force being consumed with each hit, so he actually tanked something that would count as a punch from someone stronger than Hulk.
For another instance, you can click on the following scan, in there, you can see Peter surviving the part of a missile and its shockwaves, I don´t think I need to tell you how powerful are some missiles, but look for yourself, watch the damage the missile caused in the ocean, in order for the ocean to react like it did, the missile must have carried a lot of power.
Gallery
There is nothing Cap or Doc Ock can do to put Spider-Man down, they simply don´t have the strength nor striking power to do some significant damage to the wall crawler, he can tank everything your team throws at him and keep fighting.
While using Spider-Man, I am arguing for him soloing this match, when I use Daredevil, I will use him as someone to keep Cap occupied while Peter quickly takes care of Octopus, but enough talking, let´s see some proof and tactics of why I´m sure Spider-Man would solo this. Given that Ock is the strongest opponent, Peter could just web Steve to a wall while he takes care of Otto, and believe me when I say that Cap doesn´t have the strength to get out of the webbing that will surround him, webbing strong enough to hold Iron Man and Wolverine who are both stronger than Steve. Like I said, I am arguing for Peter soloing this, but taking into account that Daredevil is here, when Steve gets webbed up to a wall, Murdock can just walk to him and punch him until he knocks him out, which won´t take long.
You stated something in your post which I highly disagree, it´s the following.
I also do not think 616 Peter is faster than Ultimate by feats truth be told. So really this Peter only has experience, and strength over what Doc Ock is use too, and that can be compensated for.
That is extremely wrong, I have read the entire Ultimate Spider-Man run and Ultimate Peter doesn´t come close to 616 Peter´s combat speed nor reaction speed, if there is someone reading this who doubts that, let me make it really clear for you. In the next scan, you can see Daredevil looking at Spider-Man who is a considerable distance away, the next thing you know Peter is punching Murdock right in the face while we can read in the dialogue that even though Matt knew where Spidey was going to throw his punch, he was still unable to react to it or dodge it due to Peter´s incredible speed.
If you don´t find that impressive, let me show you something that will completely change your mind. During "Daredevil: The Man Without Fear" we see an unexperienced and young Matt Murdock in his early days as a vigilante, in this issue he tries to rescue a girl and encounters a man using her as a hostage, this guy tell Daredevil to go away or he will shoot her, Matt does not listen and the guy points the gun at him and shoots him, but Murdock deflected the bullet and told the guy that if he shoot again, the bullet was going to en in his head, he didn´t listen and shoot again........the guy ended with his own bullet on his head, Daredevil not only reacted fast enough to deflect a bullet, he was actually fast enough to deflect it to the exact spot he wants, that´s much more impressive than dodging a bullet which is already very good, but what Matt did is on a higher level.
Gallery
So, we have Daredevil who is fast enough to deflect a bullet fired from a few feet, but is still too slow to dodge a punch from Spider-Man who was farther than the guy who shot at Matt.
If that is still not enough for you, I have dozens of speed showings for Spidey, so let´s see another some more proof that Peter is waaaaaaay faster than anything Ultimate Ock is used to. I believe this was during Secret Wars (not entirely sure) Peter took on some of the X-Men, he showed he was too fast for them to handle and Storm even stated that he was too fast for them, he dealt with Nightcrawler (who also complimented his speed) and Wolverine at the same time. With his spider-sense, Peter is almost untouchable.
Hell, let´s see another instance where Peter explains Mary Jane how his spider-sense works and basically stated what I said above, that he is almost untouchable due to this ability, in the scan you can see Peter dodging an optic blast that came from behind.
Let´s just look at one more scan, I´ll save the best ones for later. In here, you see Spider-Man dodging several lasers fired at the same time, that is something he consistently does, Peter is characterized by his insane speed and ability to dodge attacks even though they seem impossible to do so, he has shown countless times it´s almost impossible to tag him.
I think this is enough about Spider-Man for now, let´s move to my next amazing character.
Daredevil:
Here is a list of his powers and how they work.
- Radar Sense - Daredevil's heightened senses allow him to "see" what's around him. His radar sense is similar to echolocation.
- Super Hearing - Daredevil's hearing functions so well he can hear a person's heartbeat at a distance of over twenty feet, or people whispering on the other side of a standard soundproof wall.
- Super Touch - Daredevil's sense of touch is so acute that his fingers can feel the ink on a page allowing him to read by touch. He can also feel minute temperature and pressure changes, including body heat from people standing nearby.
- Super Smell - Daredevil's sense of smell is so precise that he can focus on a person's smell and follow it through a crowd of people at a distance of 50 feet or gunpowder from a sniper rifle almost 3 blocks away. He also has a great ability to remember smells, so he can identify people by smell alone.
- Lie Detection - Daredevil can tell whether a person is lying by listening to changes in their heartbeat or by smelling their sweat when they are under pressure.
- Agility - Due to the fact that Daredevil's sensory organs have such a high level of development, his inner ear, which controls the equilibrium and motions of the body, is also highly developed, aiding him in acrobatic feats that may surpass even Olympic-level athletes.
- Tracking - Daredevil's heightened senses make him particularly adept at tracking people. He uses his sense of smell to track their scent and his sense of hearing to discern vocal patterns, heartbeats and gait.
- Intellect - Matt Murdock is a skilled lawyer and has encyclopedic knowledge of law and New York statutes. He has a Juris Doctor (doctorate of law) from Columbia University and also possesses the equivalent of a self-taught masters of applied sciences in mechanical engineering. He is an accomplished strategist, as well as an expert in interrogation, disguise, medicine, science and detective work.
The Man Without Fear, he is Matt Murdock the blind lawyer who became a vigilante of Hell´s Kitchen. From what I can gather from your posts, you are going to base your whole argument on Captain America getting rid of Daredevil early in the battle and then double team Spider-Man, that argument is wrong bcause of three important things.
1- Spidey can solo both of your characters, he can web up Steve to a wall and deal with Ock, after he beats him, he just goes and knocks out Steve with a couple punches while he is still stuck on that wall. But even if Peter didn´t web Cap to a wall, he can still take both of them at the same time, he has experience taking on multiple opponents at the same time, most notably the Sinister Six, who would defeat your team to be honest. Like I showed in a scan above, Spidey took on multiple X-Men and showed he was too fast for them, it wouldn´t be any different with Steve and Otto.
2- Spider-Man can web Steve to a wall at the beggining of the fight and all Matt has to do is walk towards Steve and punch him until he gets knocked out, all that while Spider-Man is dealing with Ock.
3- This is probably where most of your argument will be......Daredevil is powerful enough to hang and even defeat 1610 Captain America, you are already assuming Cap would beat Matt, which is wrong, Matt would give Steve all kinds of hell and then beat him using his enhanced senses which often gives him the win against most opponents.
So with that said, let´s get to why Daredevil is more than a worthy opponent against Captain America, like I showed in a scan above, Daredevil´s reflexes are insane, he was able to deflect a bullet that was fired only a few feet from him, but let´s look at more speed showings for the man without fear.
This showing is actually very similar to the one I explained above, there´s a thug just a few feet away from Matt and he decides to shoot him, but Daredevil effortlessly deflects the bullet and proceeds to one shot the thug. Daredevil´s reflexes coupled with his enhanced senses are his most dangerous abilities and are what´s going to give him the win against Captain America.
Another instance showcasing his combat and reaction speed was against Punisher, in which the anti-hero had a very hard time keeping up with Matt´s speed, and even though he started with his weapon aiming at him, Matt was still able to throw his Billy Clubs before Punisher could react and shoot.
Gallery
With this showings, it becomes very clear that Captain America lacks the speed to keep up with Daredevil who is easily a bullet timer, Matt simply outclasses him in this category, by quite a lot. Let´s get to another category which is skill, the man without fear is extremely skilled, he has been able to hang with the best fighters in hand to hand the MU has to offer, such as Black Panther, Captain America, Wolverine and much more, but enough talking, let´s see the instances.
In, here you can see Matt giving trouble to Iron Fist in hand to hand, Rand was posing as Daredevil, but what I want you to notice is the fact that Matt was doing extremely well against a highly skilled martial artist.
Gallery
Daredevil has also shown to be quite good when it comes to nerve strikes, I have a couple of instances of him doing that, but I am just going to post one for now, this happened in a fight against Kingpin in which Daredevil showed how profficient he is using those kind of attacks and effortlessly defeated Wilson Fisk.
Gallery
I think this is enough for Daredevil considering I don´t really need him to win this battle, but I am just showcasing him so everyone can see Matt would be able to beat Ultimate Steve Rogers.
So there are 3 reasons why my team would win this match, I already said it above but I am going to say it again just so it is clear.
Reasons why my team wins
1- Spidey can solo both of your characters, he can web up Steve to a wall and deal with Ock, after he beats him, he just goes and knocks out Steve with a couple punches while he is still stuck on that wall. But even if Peter didn´t web Cap to a wall, he can still take both of them at the same time, he has experience taking on multiple opponents at the same time, most notably the Sinister Six, who would defeat your team to be honest. Like I showed in a scan above, Spidey took on multiple X-Men and showed he was too fast for them, it wouldn´t be any different with Steve and Otto.
2- Spider-Man can web Steve to a wall at the beggining of the fight and all Matt has to do is walk towards Steve and punch him until he gets knocked out, all that while Spider-Man is dealing with Ock.
3- Daredevil is powerful enough to hang with and even defeat 1610 Captain America, you are already assuming Cap would beat Matt, which is wrong, Matt would give Steve all kinds of hell and then beat him using his enhanced senses which often gives him the win against most opponents.
@thor_parker82: Been awhile but here it is.
lets compare stats and such first.
Strength
Spider-Man is definitely the most powerful character in this battle, I honestly think that Peter would be able to solo this match, so having another character to help, and that character being the goddamn "Man Without Fear" is going to assure my win here. Let´s see a couple of strength showings for Spider-Man.
In the first scan, you can see Hulk throwing a car at Spider-Man, what is impressive here is the fact that Peter catches the car without really showing any kind of difficulty, simply stoping the car by putting his hands in fron of it wouñd have been impressive, but it becomes even more when you take into account he actuallt catched it, not impressive enough ? Well, the car was thrown by Hulk, one of the strongest heroes on the planet, so the car was going with a lot, and I mean a lot of force behind, and Peter not only stopeed its momentum, he catched and held the car for a while.
In the second scan you can see Spidey lifting part of a train in order to save a man who was trapped, again, Peter did not show any kind of difficulty while doing so, meaning he is capable of far more, and he has in fact showed he can do much more, but I am going to save that for the next round. With this two scans, it is clear who is the strongest character in this CaV, and that´s Spider-Man.
I can dispute this by pointing this out. those are great feats of lifting strength, but Cap strength in striking feats are better.
- Here Cap manages to by pass the durability of Assemble, who has stated powers of Hulk in his durability. Yet a thrown shield cuts his thick neck like nothing even when juggernaut powered Rogue and Iceman failed to do anything.
- He also some how with his fist took down Warmachine in seconds, and rip his arm off to use as a weapon.
- He kicked Juggernaut into a KO.
- Put Hulk down for a amount of time, with sticking strength and low blows.
- Shield Bash juggernaut into another KO.
There is also the blows he strength wise held off. He is very strong in the strength department when looking at striking, and the blows he withstand.
- Blocks a blood listed Thors attack with all muscle in both scans. Remeber his shield does not absorb kinetic energy, thats all Cap.
- Catches Valkyrie's fist no problem, Valkyrie who can harm Thor with her blows.
- Zarda who is Hyperion's female equal has a death blow block by Caps strength yet again.
Im not sold Peter is better than Cap in strength unless its lifting strength. Though this match is not about benching.
Dock Ock is only matching a ten ton Ultimate peter in strength, but that is enough since he is not about over powering.
Ocls own blows are enough to KO Ultimate peter who has insane durability feats of his own.
Even Green Goblin who is a mini Hulk was feeling the blows of Ock. I seriously duubt 616 Spidey is shrugging them off like nothing, and DD is not tanking these blows at all.
In the end this is not Caps or Docs only form of attacks. Both my characters have little to no morals, and will use more lethal means to win. Cap case he has his Shield and Grenades. In Ocks case he can use his arms and flying metal attacks to stab. I will show more below.
Durability
Let´s take a look at another category in which Peter is also, by far, the best, and that´s durability, Spidey has shown he is capable of tanking hits from extremely powerful opponents and still get back up and continue fighting, he know how to ignore pain and focus on what he needs to do, he has stated several times to suffer from migraines while fighting an enemy but ignored the pain and still fight like he was completely fine, that itself is EXTREMELY impressive, take it from someone who suffers migraines (me), it´s impossible to move a finger when you have these terrible headaches, let alone get on your feet, run and fight some powered thugs.
Now let´s take a look at some scans. During the early issues of Strazcynski´s Spider-Man, a new villain was introduced, probably the most powerful villain in Spidey´s rogue gallery, his name is Morlun, someone who lives by consuming the life force of spider-powered people. In his encounter against Spider-Man, when Morlun punched him, Peter stated that those hits were more powerful than Hulk´s and Thor´s punches, while that may seem like an exaggeration on Peter´s par, it is not, don´t get me wrong, I can assure you Hulk and Thor punch harder than Morlun, but Spider-Man did in fact felt like he was getting punched by Hulk because Morlun was taking part of his life force with each hit, so while he didn´t actually received punches by someone as powerful as Hulk, it still counts as tanking hits from someone as strong, due to his life force being consumed with each hit, so he actually tanked something that would count as a punch from someone stronger than Hulk.
For another instance, you can click on the following scan, in there, you can see Peter surviving the part of a missile and its shockwaves, I don´t think I need to tell you how powerful are some missiles, but look for yourself, watch the damage the missile caused in the ocean, in order for the ocean to react like it did, the missile must have carried a lot of power.
There is nothing Cap or Doc Ock can do to put Spider-Man down, they simply don´t have the strength nor striking power to do some significant damage to the wall crawler, he can tank everything your team throws at him and keep fighting.
This is the same Spider man who has no stab resistance, bullet resistance, and still get KO from lesser foes than what you posted tight? Good.
I showed Caps Shield piercing foes just fine. Not to mention Caps striking strength combine with superior fighting ability can drop a Hulk. Spidey is not tanking that like you claim. Even then Cap has the way to cut Spider man down to size for sure.
Tons of examples of Cap using his shield to decapitate people, and through durable materials, or using his shield to slice up the arm of a foe, or use his shield to cut a super durable being in half. Spider man is not "tanking" this. Nor would he expect this from a 1610 Cap who again will kill people fine. He knows this Spider Man is not his worlds, and as Secrete Wars shows, ultimate World will try to take out 616 world to survive. These people are simply more hard core.
Doc Ock meanwhile can do this.
His Tentacles are used to stab and pierce foes all the time. best part too is this Ock has Ferrokinesis. Ability to manipulate good amount of metal which he uses to hurl at foes to kill them with stab attacks as well.
All a major factor of putting down Spidey like how he killed the Spidey above.
As for how tough my team is they can for sure take Peters attacks or DD no problem. Durability wise Cap is as tough as he is as strong. Tougher in fact.
The fact is Cap is insane durable to damage, and this is no small part due to his stats, as well his healing factor.
Doc Ock is not as durable, but he relies on his Tentacles and metal powers to keep from being hit, and he tank enrage 1610 peter blows before as well and fought on for a time, i see no reason for someone like say DD putting him down with a few blows.
Speed
While using Spider-Man, I am arguing for him soloing this match, when I use Daredevil, I will use him as someone to keep Cap occupied while Peter quickly takes care of Octopus, but enough talking, let´s see some proof and tactics of why I´m sure Spider-Man would solo this. Given that Ock is the strongest opponent, Peter could just web Steve to a wall while he takes care of Otto, and believe me when I say that Cap doesn´t have the strength to get out of the webbing that will surround him, webbing strong enough to hold Iron Man and Wolverine who are both stronger than Steve. Like I said, I am arguing for Peter soloing this, but taking into account that Daredevil is here, when Steve gets webbed up to a wall, Murdock can just walk to him and punch him until he knocks him out, which won´t take long.
I think you have too much faith in Spidey dragging DD into a win. As for webbing Cap, im not seeing it.
- Twice reacts to a electricity attack after it is fired to block.
- Dodges computer targeting AK fire for practice.
- Stay un hit by mass fire from train soldiers.
- Shot by marksmen proven Moondragons, from all directions and remains un hit.
- Hawekey fires tranq bullets, and Cap from close distance brings his shield around to deflect them back faster than they can reach him.
- Twice again reacts to electricity attacks of Silver Herald as he fires on him.
Cap is not easily being Webbed here at all and thanks to Doc ock metal ability in Ferrokenisis.
Its even harder. Best part about this ability is I can de arm spidey of his Web Shooter and DD of his Billy Clubs. There is no counter for Ock able to do that.
You stated something in your post which I highly disagree, it´s the following.
That is extremely wrong, I have read the entire Ultimate Spider-Man run and Ultimate Peter doesn´t come close to 616 Peter´s combat speed nor reaction speed, if there is someone reading this who doubts that, let me make it really clear for you. In the next scan, you can see Daredevil looking at Spider-Man who is a considerable distance away, the next thing you know Peter is punching Murdock right in the face while we can read in the dialogue that even though Matt knew where Spidey was going to throw his punch, he was still unable to react to it or dodge it due to Peter´s incredible speed.
If you don´t find that impressive, let me show you something that will completely change your mind. During "Daredevil: The Man Without Fear" we see an unexperienced and young Matt Murdock in his early days as a vigilante, in this issue he tries to rescue a girl and encounters a man using her as a hostage, this guy tell Daredevil to go away or he will shoot her, Matt does not listen and the guy points the gun at him and shoots him, but Murdock deflected the bullet and told the guy that if he shoot again, the bullet was going to en in his head, he didn´t listen and shoot again........the guy ended with his own bullet on his head, Daredevil not only reacted fast enough to deflect a bullet, he was actually fast enough to deflect it to the exact spot he wants, that´s much more impressive than dodging a bullet which is already very good, but what Matt did is on a higher level.
So, we have Daredevil who is fast enough to deflect a bullet fired from a few feet, but is still too slow to dodge a punch from Spider-Man who was farther than the guy who shot at Matt.
If that is still not enough for you, I have dozens of speed showings for Spidey, so let´s see another some more proof that Peter is waaaaaaay faster than anything Ultimate Ock is used to. I believe this was during Secret Wars (not entirely sure) Peter took on some of the X-Men, he showed he was too fast for them to handle and Storm even stated that he was too fast for them, he dealt with Nightcrawler (who also complimented his speed) and Wolverine at the same time. With his spider-sense, Peter is almost untouchable.
Hell, let´s see another instance where Peter explains Mary Jane how his spider-sense works and basically stated what I said above, that he is almost untouchable due to this ability, in the scan you can see Peter dodging an optic blast that came from behind.
Let´s just look at one more scan, I´ll save the best ones for later. In here, you see Spider-Man dodging several lasers fired at the same time, that is something he consistently does, Peter is characterized by his insane speed and ability to dodge attacks even though they seem impossible to do so, he has shown countless times it´s almost impossible to tag him.
Wow, so much discussion here on trying to prove Parker is so much faster, but he really is not. Sorry. You can claim to read Ultimate Spider man all you want, does not change the fact Ultimate peter is insane fast. I do not see a need to scan bomb here, as i will just explain.
Ultimate Peter has shown Spider Sense to warn him well before attacks happen.
He clearly shows the Spider Sense early warning before attacks happen. Just like 616 Peter though not as complex, its still as good as early 616.
These are a couple random examples of Peter dodging bullets, torrents of gun fire, lasers, electricity attacks of Electro, and more. All like 616. If you like to do ABC logic for speed, then Ultimate Hawkeye who has super human twitch factor, and the greatest senses of most in Ultimate Marvel could not keep track of Peter.
In short there is really no feat for 616 Spider Man superior speed wise to 1610. Hell even Miles tagged and dodge attacks from Peter who had a cold lol. Miles who is below Peter in every way. However this is off base as it is, so lets focuse on Doc Ock again.
Im sorry, I am not buying this. Now how does this argument pertain to the debate? Well you like to believe falsely 616 will blitz Cap and Doc Ock. I already showed why Cap is not getting blitzed, and now will show why Doc Ock is not.
Im not buying the whole 616 is Blitzing, and Daredevil is sure not blitzing either.
So with that said, let´s get to why Daredevil is more than a worthy opponent against Captain America, like I showed in a scan above, Daredevil´s reflexes are insane, he was able to deflect a bullet that was fired only a few feet from him, but let´s look at more speed showings for the man without fear.
This showing is actually very similar to the one I explained above, there´s a thug just a few feet away from Matt and he decides to shoot him, but Daredevil effortlessly deflects the bullet and proceeds to one shot the thug. Daredevil´s reflexes coupled with his enhanced senses are his most dangerous abilities and are what´s going to give him the win against Captain America.
Another instance showcasing his combat and reaction speed was against Punisher, in which the anti-hero had a very hard time keeping up with Matt´s speed, and even though he started with his weapon aiming at him, Matt was still able to throw his Billy Clubs before Punisher could react and shoot.
Again this is nothing Cap has not done. Cap done better by deflecting back at Hawkeye his own bullet tranqs well after they were fired at him. This is insanly better than Punisher who holds back on DD all the time with firing, and the fact Ultimate Hawkeye is faster, and better marksmen than Frank.
With this showings, it becomes very clear that Captain America lacks the speed to keep up with Daredevil who is easily a bullet timer, Matt simply outclasses him in this category, by quite a lot. Let´s get to another category which is skill, the man without fear is extremely skilled, he has been able to hang with the best fighters in hand to hand the MU has to offer, such as Black Panther, Captain America, Wolverine and much more, but enough talking, let´s see the instances.
In, here you can see Matt giving trouble to Iron Fist in hand to hand, Rand was posing as Daredevil, but what I want you to notice is the fact that Matt was doing extremely well against a highly skilled martial artist.
Daredevil has also shown to be quite good when it comes to nerve strikes, I have a couple of instances of him doing that, but I am just going to post one for now, this happened in a fight against Kingpin in which Daredevil showed how profficient he is using those kind of attacks and effortlessly defeated Wilson Fisk.
Your underselling Cap alot. Cap here is way smarter than DD at fighting overall. not only in applying combat, but fighting foes and situations far outside what DD has. Cap shown proficient use of skill putting down Hulk, or his fight against a stat super Klieser. Cap with tactics and skill took down the whole Avenger Roster that prep for Cap, and Cap turns out held back, wanting to get caught! This included characters like Warmachine, Nerd Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Red Wasp. Cap took them down and had to let himself be caught. Cap even took on, and took down Silver Heralds which are Iron Man in stats.
Your not convincing me anything here DD is a "better fighter" or out of Caps league at all. Cap speed feats show he is not outclass at all.
I think this is enough for Daredevil considering I don´t really need him to win this battle, but I am just showcasing him so everyone can see Matt would be able to beat Ultimate Steve Rogers.
Here is the problem. DD cant win against Cap, at all!
- Cap is as fast.
- As Skilled.
- Way stronger by a huge margin.
- Way more durable by a huge margin.
- Shield and Grenades > Billy Clubs.
- DD will not kill, Cap has no morals.
Your outclass here. That simple.
Other Thoughts
1- Spidey can solo both of your characters, he can web up Steve to a wall and deal with Ock, after he beats him, he just goes and knocks out Steve with a couple punches while he is still stuck on that wall. But even if Peter didn´t web Cap to a wall, he can still take both of them at the same time, he has experience taking on multiple opponents at the same time, most notably the Sinister Six, who would defeat your team to be honest. Like I showed in a scan above, Spidey took on multiple X-Men and showed he was too fast for them, it wouldn´t be any different with Steve and Otto.
2- Spider-Man can web Steve to a wall at the beggining of the fight and all Matt has to do is walk towards Steve and punch him until he gets knocked out, all that while Spider-Man is dealing with Ock.
Again all this Web Cap up is false given Caps insane combat skill and speed. Add in Doc's Ferrokinesis, and its not happening at all.
3- This is probably where most of your argument will be......Daredevil is powerful enough to hang and even defeat 1610 Captain America, you are already assuming Cap would beat Matt, which is wrong, Matt would give Steve all kinds of hell and then beat him using his enhanced senses which often gives him the win against most opponents.
Matt would get crush by ultimate Cap, and thankfully this is not really up for debate.
Final Thoughts
So far there is nothing you really prove outclassing my own team. At all. I shown either Ock or Cap thanks to their power sets being comparable enough to Spidey, but superior to DD. DD is not going to live, and thanks to Ocks metal storm and tentacles, he can more than keep at bay a morals on Peter. However your weak link in DD is not surviving long at all against Ock or Cap. For reasons stated above by feats.
Here is how the battle will go down. As soon it starts, Ock will whip up the metal storm, throwing DD senses through a ring already, and Spidey will not be expecting it. This counters your hope of Web Spam from the get go. Not that 616 Peter in character uses Web Spam from the get go. ock can then keep Peter super busy staying alive, while Cap murders DD with supeior stats, and weapon in his Shield.
Best part thanks to Ock metal control, the issue of Peters Web Shooters and Matts Billy Clubs become part of the storm, and will most likely outright de arm your foes, putting them at a serious disadvantage.
Then its a easier day for Cap and Ock to KO or kill your team. You really have no defense against this, and your speed feats of your characters are not blitzing as you hoped.
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