As dictated by the illustrious Master Hand Referee, the rules of this match shall be thus:
This is a Random Encounter, and combatants have no information on each other other than what they can determine by physical appearance.
The combatants shall be in character, and have morals on (as applicable). However they will progress to a bloodlusted state as the battle rages on, as applicable.
Win is a KO or incapacitate
No BFR, but that really doesn't apply here......
No outside assistance to be brought in by the combatants (no calling comrades for help)
This is a Challenge A Viner match. That means please withhold commenting on whom you think wins until these fine gentlemen have completed their debate. If you are unsure what a CaV match is, please feel free to send one of us a PM message! Asking to be tagged for votes is completely acceptable. Also in the voting process there are two criteria that must be followed: 1) only voting on the Viner who presented the more solid debate, and not simply the character themselves and 2) Votes will only be counted if a reason why the vote was cast and if the Viner has a post count of 1000 or higher.
Combatants start 50 yards apart (that's 1/2 a football field distance) and are in visible sight of each other.
Pretty straight up fight for these two.
The Location!!!
The Characters!!!
Savage Dragon(represented by Wyldsong)
Sensational She-Hulk (represented by Cosmicallyaware1)
@wyldsong: match is made mate. I just wanted to get it up, now I have a few other threads to post in. Slow roll on this one like we discussed. As soon as able we can throw up our typical Introduction posts............
Feel free to start when you can, and I will get to my intro within the next couple of days.
thanks my man, you know I pride myself on aesthetics of a post ;) I like to think that @thetruebarryallen learned that from me lol......
It will probably take me just a s long to build an intro, like I said...I have two other matches to post in that are demanding my presence.... and then the next installment of CaV's with @serrure and @nimamindtricks.......
no rush on this one, just wanted to get the thread made....
@sirfizzwhizz: right you are, I think I got the idea from you at one point. And Wyld and I have a special arrangement, there's a few matches we absolutely have to do.........
@cosmicallyaware1: I remembered when i used Master Hand as a ref once.... looks familiar lol.
@wyldsong: and what the hell? Your going to debate again!?
I also have Aphrodite IX with the Witchblade (which she has currently in IX Generation) in another debate if that will ever get up and running. Pretty much though, due to two jobs, and limited time, I mainly around on days I work my radio ops job, and when I have free time at the fire station. So any debate I do, will be a slow rolling debate. That being said, we can do a little something brother man=)
@wyldsong: alright my man, let's get something up in here. How about the typical introduction post?
Introducing: The Sensational She-Hulk!!
Quick Bio:
After being shot by mobsters, her cousin Bruce Banner (The Hulk), saved her life by giving her a last minute blood transfusion of his own irradiated blood. From that point on Jennifer Walters was able to transform into the Sensational She-Hulk; a recurring member of the Avengers. Though Stan Lee is credited as the creator of She-Hulk, the character was not originally his idea. The initial reason for She-Hulk's creation was to gain exclusive rights to a female Hulk character. The idea was born during the 1970's run of the live-action "Incredible Hulk" television series. The show enjoyed such success that CBS considered making a female Hulk spin-off series. If CBS had gone through with it, they would have owned the rights to She-Hulk. But Marvel got wind of their idea and acted quickly, getting Stan Lee to write the first issue of a She-Hulk comic book series, with artist John Buscema doing the pencils.
She-Hulk has played many roles in her comics career. Her early portrayal in her solo series made her similar to her cousin Bruce, with her transformations brought on by anger, but when Morbius cured her of a blood disease, she gained full control over her abilities. Her solo series ran from 1980 until 1982, after which she joined the Avengers in Avengers #221. Following the events of the Secret Wars mini-series in 1984, Jennifer then joined the Fantastic Four, replacing Thing until he later returned to the team.
She-Hulk's solo series - beginning in 1989 - introduced a new aspect of her persona, that is her awareness that she is a comic-book character and her ability to break the fourth-wall. After this series concluded in the mid-90s, She-Hulk continued to be a reliable member of the Avengers, and appeared in two further solo series in 2004 and 2005. After the huge events of World War Hulk and Fall of the Hulks, Jennifer is a key player in the life of her cousin and is beginning to establish a new life for herself alongside all the many new members of the Hulk family. Most recently, when the Fantastic Four left Earth to find a cure for a degenerative condition that was threatening to kill them, Jen joined a new team, the FF, to stay behind on Earth and take their place. The new team is composed of Medusa, Scott Lang, Ms. Thing (Darla Deering) and herself.
Powers and Abilities:
well, first off.........she's a Hulk Family Member. So that constitutes the epitome of a brick. Here's a brief synopsis of Jen
Strength
Jen has always been a strength based character. In her initial conception she was roughly a 70-75 tonner. Now I would peg her slightly below the vaunted 100 tonner mark, not quite getting to that level but she's up there in the muscle department. Although the She-Hulk's strength originally remained at a set level and did not increase, later in her history her strength increases as her anger grows, similar to her cousin the Hulk. If she increases her strength level as Jennifer Walters, her strength level as She-Hulk will be vastly greater than it would be otherwise. She has used this to her advantage in the past, using weight training as Jennifer Walters to make her much more powerful than normal as She-Hulk
Durability
She pretty darn durable. She has the trademark durability of a Hulk, although the regen factor seems slightly less than what Bruce has demonstrated in the past.
Intellect
One of Jen's key elements is that she keeps her Intellect in her She Hulk state, as that has varied for Bruce in the past. She is quite the smart powerhouse and uses it to her her advantage in her fights. She is an accomplished Lawyer and has a decorated career as a litigator. Her intelligence plays into using her substantial abilities and will be a key factor in this fight IMO.
Skills/Fighting Ability
Jen is an accomplished H2H fighter and not just a simple brawler. She uses her brains with the brawn. She spent time being tutored under Captain America while in the Avengers, as most Avengers do. Shew will be using her superior fighting ability to really gain the upper hand on Dragon here, he doesn't stand a chance!!!
So, I know what some of you are thinking..."What the hell is Wyldsong thinking? Savage Dragon against SHE HULK? Isn't she like a 75-85 tonner?"
I'm sure some of you have seen this:
And have read the various wikis and so on that also credit Dragon as likely being a 34 tonner, and maybe you have seen the various respect threads that all seem to stop between issue 11 to 15...hell, I would be thinking the same thing if that was all I had to go on. Reading the information available on the web, I cannot blame one single person for believing that I am in fact, insane. Here is the thing though...Savage Dragon numbers into issue 202 in the main series, and he has in the range 400+ appearances in the main series and various comics. This is one of the few Image characters to maintain an ongoing series from the days of the original Image comics explosion. He is so much more than what most believe him to be.
Win or lose here, I am on a mission. A mission to educate these forums about Dragon. A mission to clear up a lot of misconceptions. A mission to show that Dragon does in fact kick @$$, and really doesn't take names, mainly because he is too busy kicking the aforementioed @$$.
So, how would I describe Savage Dragon? If you mix a bit of Spider-Man, Bullseye, Wolverine, Joe Fixit, and John McClane, then you are somewhere in the ballpark of describing Dragon. So, let's start with the origin...
The Origin:
As you can see, Dragon was found in a burning field, with no memory of who or what he was. Years later, it is discovered that Dragon was once in fact the evil Emperor Kurr, who lead a race of peaceful and nomadic aliens looking for a new home, the Krylans. When he wanted to commit genocide on the people of Earth, he was stopped by two scientists and his memory was erased, and within his memories was implanted five days worth of satellite television broadcasts from our planet. Dragon is a special member of his race with enhanced physical attributes, regenerative/adaptive abilities, and an almost savant like ability in the arts of combat. His offspring have also been shown to have similar attributes.
Now, while currently Dragon is depowered in the series, and his son Malcom is now the star, I will of course be using the fully powered and experienced Dragon for this CaV=)
Strength:
Yes, Dragon is strong. Just how strong? As you have seen, initial estimates from his early years place him at about 34 tons. While he has often fought fairly effectively outside of his own weight class, his feats and showings prior to his depowerment place him at a higher base. So, just how strong is he? Patience young padawan, we will get there in time=)
Durability/Pain Tolerance:
One thing that has been a constant is his durability and pain tolerance. Dragon's world is full of superstrong bruisers:
Superstrength is pretty common for his foes (though there are plenty of others with varying degrees and types of other powers), and Dragon often faces multiple opponents with various levels of superstrength all at once (so a little one on one action should be a bit of a break for him here):
The major type of damage that Jen brings to this battle, is the type of damage that Dragon excels in tanking. Of course, much like strength, we will expand upon this in more detail as the debate progresses, but for now, we will try and keep this intro short and sweet=)
Agility/Reaction:
Besides enhanced strength and durability...Dragon is also exceedingly acrobatic and agile:
We'll get into the various showings of bullet/energy/projectile dodging/timing, various feats of acrobatics and so on in future posts, but let it be known that he does in fact bring more than just strength, durability and rugged good looks to this fight=)
Intellect:
While Dragon may not hold a law degree, he is far from a simple just stand there and trade punches with his foe kind of bruiser:
Much like Jen, he is a smart powerhouse, and uses his wits and intellect in combat, which is a key reason that he often fights so effectively outside of his own weight class.
Skill/Combat Ability:
Dragon is an exceedingly skilled and accomplished hand to hand combatant. He has received some formal martial arts training from Dart:
As an FYI, Dart is one of those exceedingly skilled peak humans that tangles with enhanced superhumans for a living. She is a grade A bad arse. Though Dragon was honestly kicking bad guy arse long before the above scene. Take for instance his very first fight before joining the police force and even realizing that he could fight:
He utterly defeats and humiliates two members of a feared and notorious crime gang that controls the city without even breaking a sweat or trying too hard. You see, the majority of what Dragon does and knows in combat just comes as naturally as breathing to him. Like I said earlier, he is a bit of a savant when it comes to combat. This is also evidenced in the following scan, where we see the first time he ever held or fired a gun:
He instinctively knew how to use it, and had insane accuracy his first try. What is the explanation for this combat prowess and natural fighting ability? I could not tell you, as that has never been explained. Is it a natural side effect of his powers? Could it have something to do with all of the data that was loaded into his brain before being sent to Earth (he did discover that he could read and speak Cantonese at one point)? Who knows?
What is known is that he is just a natural bad arse and is constantly shown proficiently fighting and beating anywhere from brute thugs up to trained and experienced warriors. Combine this natural combat ability with an exceedingly tactical mind and enhanced physical stats, and you have a truly dangerous foe on your hands here. Considering just what Dragon has faced and overcome in his time, I am not sure Jen has what it takes to put him down for the count here...
Healing/regen:
Dragon does have pretty insane regeneration:
Now, while major damage can (and has) put him out of commision for awhile, his healing factor is no joke. As with the other categories being presented, this is another topic that will be expanded upon as needed and as the debate progresses.
Dragon, the Ladies Man:
Of course, once Jen meets Dragon, there is the distinct possibility that she will just fall for his charms:
The ladies honestly just can't seem to keep their hands off of him:
In Closing:
And there it is, just a taste of Dragon. Now, I can't proclaim any sort of victory based on that, nor will I try, as this tiny taste does not prove he can take down a character with the word "Hulk" in their name. I honestly have a ways to go before I get to that point, but cosmic my friend, don't get too comfy...because as always, I have some aces up my sleeve=)
but cosmic my friend, don't get too comfy...because as always, I have some aces up my sleeve=)
Oh, I am well aware my friend, I have learned that all too well!!! This will be great and one for the record books my man!!!
My friend, it will be nothing short of epic. I know that you will make me work for it=)
Just an FYI, I added one small bit under the skill/training bit, in case you have already read through it. Forgot two scans I was going to add. They are now there.
I've been catching up on Savage Dragon for the last few months, and am almost current in the series. I'm amazed this is his first CaV. Every issue he's in is basically a huge highlight real for feats. Larsen sure loves non-stop action. She-Hulk will be a perfect match up.
I've been catching up on Savage Dragon for the last few months, and am almost current in the series. I'm amazed this is his first CaV. Every issue he's in is basically a huge highlight real for feats. Larsen sure loves non-stop action. She-Hulk will be a perfect match up.
Can do. I am all about firsts on CaVs. I think I have quite a few firsts under my belt CaV wise=)
I've been catching up on Savage Dragon for the last few months, and am almost current in the series. I'm amazed this is his first CaV. Every issue he's in is basically a huge highlight real for feats. Larsen sure loves non-stop action. She-Hulk will be a perfect match up.
glad you approve mate. Shall make this another fun read for ya!
@wyldsong: I got side tracked by life man. Doin my best to get the reply up, I will sooon hopefully. I haven't forgot though. Lol, I have 8 other matches that need attention as well hahahaah.
@wyldsong: ok brother let's get the next installment up in here. Sorry it took so long, have been very busy with work lately.
Round 1! // Battle Outline
Ahhhhh, now we really dive into the pool don't we? Let's begin with how I see the battle progressing. First let me say that Wyld and I have debated previously, we are fond of going into detail, and are very thorough. That being said, get ready for quite the interesting (and hopefully entertaining) read vine community!
Now, as I said before.......how I see the battle progressing? Well, It's going to be filled with: brawling, witty banter, sexual tension, and blood/sweat/tears.
This will not be a simple slugfest, or a quick "one, two, knock 'em out" fight. Oh no. This will be a "brick" fight of a particularly special nature.
I prefer to compartmentalize debates that cover a lot of ground, as there is a lot to say on each subject/category. Allow me to present my posting order for the following debate:
Table of Contents // Index
Statistical Breakdown 1: Strength Comparison
Statistical Breakdown 2: Durability Discussion
Statistical Breakdown 3: Fighting Ability and Prowess
Interlude: Healing and Regen analysis
Statistical Breakdown 4: Feats Presentation
Point of Interest: The "Romance Factor"
As we can all see by this, I have a very structured posting plan. As it is too much information to present all at once, this allows for easier reading and digestion of information presented.
This also allows certain key sections to be able to be discussed in detail without running into each other and provide clear distinction.
After posting in each category, my opponent (wyldsong) will present his information.......then I will "rebutt/refute" certain statements and information presented before the beginning of the next category.
and without further adieu...we truly begin.
Point 1 // Statistical Breakdown 1: Strength Comparison
Obviously when it comes to "brick" type characters (strength an durability based for those of you that were wondering), strength as a category and consideration is a big deal to say the least. This will be one of the main points covered and one that will not be taken lightly. Both of these characters are traditionally known for being strong (......cough.......Jen being much more so, jus sayin), and performing exceptional feats in that realm. Let's break it down more specifically now:
Let's talk Muscle
I think it's safe to say here that Jen is stronger than dragon.
Yes, Dragon is strong. Just how strong? As you have seen, initial estimates from his early years place him at about 34 tons. While he has often fought fairly effectively outside of his own weight class, his feats and showings prior to his depowerment place him at a higher base. So, just how strong is he? Patience young padawan, we will get there in time=
She Hulk is hands down one strong chick. And she should be, she is in the Hulk family after all. Her strength levels have grown throughout the years, and she has been showcased as one of the Marvel Universes premier strength based females. She has held her own against the likes of the Thing, She Thing, Titania, her own cousin (Bruce, the Hulk himself), Rulk, and countless others.
It is relevant and respectable to be able to combat an individual outside of the strength and weight class, which Jen herself has accomplished as well on numerous occasions. That is neither here nor there though, and we can provide examples of this all day......what it really boils down to is this: Jen is going to KO Dragon.
As far as pure muscle goes and her strength classification thing, it's a bit ambiguous in the Marvel 'Class 100 range'. She-Hulk's Superhuman Registration card says she's class 100 and so does Iron Man's Civil War Damage Report. Current She-Hulk has not been able to be shown stronger than The Hulk himself or stronger than Hercules for example. Yet it's plausible that she's still stronger than the Thing (which is a point of great argument on the vine. She lifted more than his max with one hand at one point, but then later on during Hickman's FF run Jen was beaten by a Kree Sentry while Ben was able to continue fighting against multiple ones. However the Sentry stated that Jen was the primary threat over Ben and had to use Energy blast to KO Jen, it wasn't a physical blow). I'd says she's a mid-level class 100 if that makes sense, considering there are levels to this classification. She's probably stronger than the lower level ones like Wonder Man, Ben, etc.... but she's NOT above the higher level class 100's like Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Hercules & Juggernaut.
I will discuss the context behind this at a later date. However for those of you that may be thinking this "Jupiter Suit" is amping her strength......actually the opposite.....it was keeping her strength in check. Once again, I plan on covering this fully in another section, so be patient!!!!
SO regardless of anything else.......Dragon is not a 'class 100' character. I would say at best he's been a 60 tonner (but wyld's the expert not me on that and will leave that up to him to discuss)
But I will say that Jen has been able to hold her own in the strength department with some of the Finest Marvel has to offer and some of the more interesting feats and examples of pure muscle include:
KO'ing Abomination
the infamous fight with Champion (which I will discuss later)
beating Titania with the Power Gem
putting a fair beating on a Highfather (Zeus)...(and yes, with help)
knocking around some of Marvel's finest (Thor, Rulk, Namor, Sentry, etc....)
So it's safe to say that Jen has the distinctive edge in baseline strength from the get go. It's going to be very difficult for Savage Dragon to gain an advantage here considering this gap. Now Jen isn't just a simple brawler and there's more to her than just pure muscle. Let's go into some of the other points.
Lifting Strength > Striking Power
There is always the argument that relates to baseline strength and striking power. Strength does not equal punching power, stamina or fighting skill respectively and has been quite the point in many a battle. Just because someone is insanely strong, doesn't necessarily mean that they can strike that hard. There is a formula that has been used to calculate this many a time:
F = m x a (Force = mass x acceleration).
This means, in terms of punching power; how fast (acceleration) you can put your weight (mass) behind your punch is more important than how much weight you can lift (strength) in determining how hard (force) you will strike/hit your target
The reason I state this here is that Jen has displayed an excellent ability to properly use her abilities to the fullest when it comes to striking power. She has the fundamentals down pat and received the proper training to compliment her strength base. As most Avengers members, Jen participated in training with Captain America whom generally instructs an individual in using their abilities to the fullest.
Now we have a character here whom, unlike her other Gamma Family members....is not an overburdened musclebound oaf. She does have an "Amazonish" build yes, with plenty of muscle and mass........but she is not so massive that she cannot move quickly enough. The reason this is pointed out, is to illustrate how she can move quickly enough to shift mass and properly accelerate her punches for maximum potential. She has easily been shown to out maneuver Rulk to land more blows and dodge the majority of his. This shows how she maximizes her striking power to the fullest.
This has also been shown when she fought Abomination, using nerve strikes and other blows to take down a stronger opponent.
{spoiler block}
Why is this being discussed? I wan to illustrate two things here:
That She Hulk is significantly stronger than Savage Dragon (done)
She Hulk has vastly superior striking power (because we discussed the difference between simple lifting strength and striking force).
The reason I want to illustrate this is put this into perspective: Dragon is seriously outclassed here sadly. He is a very tough customer, and with respectable regen to boot. However, it's not going to be enough in this case to compensate for the heat that Jen is packing in the strength and striking power department.
Here are some examples of She Hulk's striking power:
causing physical damage to Rulk
trashing Iron man (extremis)
knocking Doc Samson in the air like he was a rag doll
knocking Sentry into the ground with one punch
humbling Zeus with blows
damaging Thor
laying the beat down on Titania
and the best of them all..........her fight with the Champion of the Universe. Now there's some context behind it however. She learned that if she became stronger as Jen in human form, then her strength as She Hulk would become exponentially higher. Champion removed the Power Gem, and they had a good 'ol fashioned boxing match (rematch actually).
and after her increased training She Hulk beat the snot out of Tryco.....
now if that's not a prime example of striking power, I don't know what is.......
alright my man. I will leave it at that for now and let's get this thing moving.....
@cosmicallyaware1: Alright brother man, here we go. Let's dive into this...
"Now, as I said before.......how I see the battle progressing? Well, It's going to be filled with: brawling, witty banter, sexual tension, and blood/sweat/tears."
Definitely no disagreements there=)
Strong Like Bull:
"I think it's safe to say here that Jen is stronger than dragon."
You think so? Interesting indeed...
Now, I show that, not to place Dragon over Jen in the strength department (because that scene alone definitely does not), but to point out, he isn't a pushover in the arena of strength. I'll get into more about his strength levels later on, but what Dragon really has over Jen is consistency. He has consistently shown gains and increases in strength, and has not been shown to perform below those gains once they have happened, at least not until he allowed his powers to be stripped from him. Jen has obviously been all over the place. We have instances where she has bulked up, and taken on the Champion, and instances where she has tapped out against the Thing at 85 tons while working out:
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to downplay She Hulk, as I do fully believe Jen is a powerhouse and a solid brick type character, but she isn't going to have time to bulk up before this fight. I think that there is definitely a good fight to be had here, but I don't believe her baseline to be out of the range of Dragon's strength levels=)
"SO regardless of anything else.......Dragon is not a 'class 100' character. I would say at best he's been a 60 tonner"
When all is said and done, we shall see if your estimation was correct. Regardless, at this point, I am going to hold off on the front of Dragon's strength. We are in no rush here, and for the moment, I want to discuss a few things of importance in relation to Dragon's staying power in a fight against the likes of Jen...
Pain Tolerance:
Let's start here. Dragon's pain tolerance is hard to match in the realm of comics. Everything I am about to show is from various stages of the life of Dragon, so some of this is from early stages of his career, and some of this is from later on. We'll start on the low end, with the time he tanked a blast of shrapnel from, well, Shrapnel, saving Rapture, and isn't phased by it:
But let's go ahead and up the ante a bit, shall we? Here he is fighting the Atomic Men in an arena full of mind controlled superhumans, and they puncture his body with sharpened metal type posts, and he is able to keep on going, removing the posts and healing, and even after winning in this scene has to go on and fight and defeat other superhumans, and isn't slowed down one bit:
Gallery
Here, a villain uses a high powered attack, which blows off one of his arms, and not only does he keep fighting, but he also uses his severed arm as a club:
Dragon is one hardcore mofo...
Another good showing, from when a high powered entity known as the Fiend, disintegrates both of his arms, and he keeps up with the witty banter and still isn't down for the count:
The Fiend is a demonic entity that feeds off of the hate of it's host, and at one point it joined with a woman by the name of Bonnie Harris. Bonnie was the mother of Debbie, a former girlfriend of Dragon's who was shot dead while answering his door...Bonnie blames Dragon for her death. What was once a creature Dragon fought and beat fairly easily, the Fiend became an overpowered foe when joined with Bonnie. The Fiend shown above was Bonnie, and this of course sets up the story for the next scans. The Fiend had ambushed Dragon, snapped every bone in his body, crumpled him up, and dropped him in a smoke stack, and his bones healed at all sorts of bizarre and odd angles. He is able to bust out of the stack while maimed and mangled:
And while a friend is driving him to get him fixed up, they come upon Mako, who is attacking some cops, and Dragon while all mangled doesn't give it a second thought, and still jumps into battle:
Not only that, when they get him somewhere to reset his bones so they can heal properly, Mighty Man has to break his bones, so they can reset them and he can heal properly. Dragon was awake the entire time, and it was done without any anesthetic drugs:
Gallery
Dragon didn't scream, yell, or pass out from the pain (although he certainly did not enjoy it).
By the way, while all of these scenes are from the same story line, they aren't all from the same book, and aren't all full page scenes (so we aren't breaking the 3 scan rule for those keeping track).
With what we have seen so far, it should be no surprise when I tell you that when he faced Overlord for their first full out brawl (prior to adapting to his energy attacks), when Overlord blasted off his hand, blasted a huge hole through his torso, hits him with tonner level strength that sends him flying out of the top of a high rise, Dragon falls heaven knows how many hundreds of feet (it was alot), and manages to fall onto the spire of a church (he hit it with the hole in his torso to make things even better), that Dragon is able to pull himself off:
Gallery
And before he can fully heal from the event, faces off against Cuthroat and another member of the Vicious Circle, and takes the win, causing Cuthroat to shatter his blade arm, which could previously cut Dragon in a prior encounter:
Now, before people look at those instances I just provided, and try and base the totality of what Dragon can tank and do based off of just that...let's talk about his healing factor some more, and his adaptive physiology.
Of Healing and Adaption:
Dragon has a pretty insane healing factor that has brought him back from the dead and from having half of his brain eaten (his blood was also drained so they had to put more blood back into his body to kick start it):
Gallery
His regenerative abilities healed him from having his lower torso blown off:
Gallery
Even changed him back to normal from being transmuted completely to chocolate and so on:
Gallery
His healing factor plays into his adaptive system, where quite often we will see attacks from villains that previously affected him, were no longer able to do so. A good example would be a villain that in one encounter was able to use mind control on Dragon. Yet in a future encounter, Dragon was resistant, then later on, he was immune to the mind control, which was attributed to his healing factor:
One of the more extreme examples of this comes from Overlord. Overlord in their first, full out fight, was able to use an energy attack that disintegrated his hand, and then blew a giant hole through Dragon's torso:
Gallery
In a later encounter, Overlord went a little more extreme with the energy attack, and let out a blast that completely vaporized the top several floors of a building, and completely disintegrated everyone on those floors, excluding himself...and Dragon. Dragon's clothing was destroyed, and his outer layer of skin was burned off, but Dragon was otherwise unaffected, and soundly defeated Overlord:
Gallery
I skipped the page where you see him leap to the nearby police copter to grab a new gun...as the ones he brought with him originally were vaporized as well. I also had to leave out the pages with the people getting vaporized...too many pages from the same book...sigh...
Then, in future encounters with another villain utilizing the Overlord armor, Dragon was completely immune to the energy attacks the armor produced:
He was also once upon a time placed in a chamber where they tried to gas him, and utilized lasers and electricity on him, all in an effort to kill him. It pissed Dragon off, and he busted out, and put the beat down on all of the villains in the room, no damage was done to his body from the gas/lasers/electricity:
Gallery
So we are talking about a healing factor that can bring him back from death all the way up to reversing attacks that physically transmuted his molecular structure. He is actually a very tough customer to put down, especially once you add his pain tolerance with his healing factor/adaptability. Then we amp it up another level by talking about the all important...
Durability:
This is a segment that I am not going into full detail on in this post. I am going to start with a bunch of feats that should give you a pretty good idea of Dragon's durability, but it is by no means a completely comprehensive look at it. What I will say is that Dragon excels in tanking blunt force trauma. That will be heavily dissected in future posts when I start to discuss his performance against various heavy hitters, and you will see some of it here shortly, but this section here should paint a pretty decent picture of just how insanely durable Dragon is. We can start with one of my favorites, a superpowered Mummy tossing a train and its cars on Dragon, then it gets blown up, and he walks away without a scratch:
Gallery
Sorry, but had to skip the part where Hellboy set off an explosive, whose blast Dragon was also caught in when the train hit him. In Hellboy's defense, he was trying to kill the creature that threw the train=)
He tanks everything from vehicle sized explosions (and protects others from the blast):
To giant building/warehouse leveling blasts:
Gallery
FYI: He is not falling over in pain or anything. He is grieving, as a baseline human he worked for was killed in that blast.
He can also comfortably swim through and exist in depths and pressures to the levels of what Namor and his ilk live in:
And, I have seen scans where Jen was afraid of getting sucked into space and getting her "story" cut short:
So, while I won't claim that this is true to current Jen, as I don't want to downplay her, I will put a serious question to you: Can she comfortably survive the vacuum, rigors, and harshness of outerspace? Dragon can, and he can do it in just regular clothing (bear in mind, he can hold his breath a long time, eventually he will need some oxygen though):
An alternate Earth by the way...
That is a pretty darn high level of durability, a level that many class 100s have not ever displayed.
And to close this section out, let's discuss a character by the name of Grip. Grip can basically touch an object, and cause it to explode. To be clear, he is not producing an explosion himself, his touch does something that energizes the object's molecules themselves and makes them go boom. He can even control it to the point of localizing it to say, just a hand or a head:
Gallery
So, what happens when Grip touches Dragon's head (?):
It gives Dragon a severe migraine, it singed his skin, and he was back in the game pretty quickly for suffering a molecular level attack on his head (this happened before the chocolate incident discussed above):
In Conclusion:
His strength and his ability to lay down the hurt are two issues that I will tackle on down the line, but I felt it important to spend some time discussing Dragon's durability, healing, adaptability, pain tolerance, and just general staying power in response to Jen's strength and striking power.
A major fact that should be plainly evident is that fights in Dragon's world are just far more deadly and brutal on average than what you see in the Marvel U. Combatants there tend to go at it with everything they have and rarely hold back, unlike in the Marvel U, where even the villains rarely go all out. Sure, you will occasionally see people bleed with bruises, black eyes and so on, occasionally someone gets killed or maimed in a brawl, and you will see brutality from time to time...but it just isn't on the same level as what Dragon deals with on an average day. Dragon is used to opponents that will go all out with everything they have, and he is used to facing multiple opponents who are actively trying to kill him all at once with varying degrees of tonner level strength, all by his lonesome.
With just what I have shown here in this post, I am not sure Jen has what it takes to put Dragon down before he pulls the win...and I still have just barely scratched the surface of his blunt force damage soaking/tanking ability. While Jen may have taken on and put down some tough customers, I don't think many of them have shown that unique combination of durability, pain tolerance, healing, and adaptability that Dragon has.
And to close out...a little of Amy, the She Dragon...
There are actually an overabundance of females with healthy lungs in Dragon's world...
@wyldsong: ahhhhhhhh nice! Heatin up in here. I'll get next post ASAP, but it may be a bit....have quite a few other matches that need attention as well.....
@cosmicallyaware1: Honestly, I downplayed Dragon a bit in my initial intro. I wanted some nice little surprises to throw out there=)
Looking forward to your response my friend=)
ahhhh, I knew that bro. I have a pretty good grasp on Dragon, I was a big Image fan. There's a lot of characters that I hope to see get showcased some day that don't get enough spotlight (we can discuss that in a PM some other time).
And by now, I am well aware of your strategies my man. Let me say this.......our matches are not about "winning" or "losing" in my opinion.......it's about making spectacular reads for the vine community!!!! Spectacular visual layouts and educating younger users on our characters!!! Think about how many people we turned on to PITT and Joe Fixit Hulk last time? That's bad arse.
Anyway.....I'll be working on reply. But honestly it will be a bit hommie. Don't hold your breath lol.......
Log in to comment