Shayera Hol: Hawkgirl
Well let's get this started. Above is a sample of some of Hawkgirl's fight scenes, I think it largely speaks for itself. As you can see, Hawkgirl is a fast, agile flyer, and a very capable combatant who hits hard enough to stagger Superman-level characters. She is more than a match for Frank
Physicals:
As a Thanagarian, Hawkgirl has above human physical stats. Hawkgirl doesn't often make her strength evident because she's usually hitting things with her mace (which is another matter entirely), but she does have a few instances to make it clear she's superhuman. For example, in the above video at 9:30 she picks up a supervillain almost twice her size then proceeds to slam that villain into the ground. She's also got some nice showings of strength and durability in her and Vixen's fight with Wonder Woman. Some of that fight is above, put I'll go ahead and post the whole thing
As you can see, she takes repeated blows from Wonder Woman (who's much stronger than Frank) and even manages to affect her with some hits of her own without her mace (obviously she's not in Wonder Woman's weight class though)
Frank has taken blows from Giants, who are legitimate mountain tossers. This puts them on par with JLU Wonder Woman if not above.
“Be nice!” Ephialtes scolded. “At any rate, my girl, you’re absolutely right, but this hypogeum is much more than the stageworks for a coliseum. You’ve heard that in the old days some giants were imprisoned under the earth, and from time to time they would cause earthquakes when they tried to break free? Well, we’ve done much better! Otis and I have been imprisoned under Rome for eons, but we’ve kept busy building our very own hypogeum. Now we’re ready to create the greatest spectacle Rome has ever seen—and the last!”
At Otis’s feet, Nico shuddered. Percy felt like a hellhound hamster wheel somewhere in his chest had started moving again. At least Nico was alive. Now they just had to defeat the giants, preferably without destroying the city of Rome, and get out of here to find their friends.
“So!” Percy said, hoping to keep the giants’ attention on him. “Stage directions, you said?”
“Yes!” Ephialtes said. “Now, I know the bounty stipulates that you and the girl Annabeth should be kept alive if possible, but honestly, the girl is already doomed, so I hope you don’t mind if we deviate from the plan.”
Percy’s mouth tasted like bad nymph water. “Already doomed. You don’t mean she’s—”
“Dead?” the giant asked. “No. Not yet. But don’t worry! We’ve got your other friends locked up, you see.”
Piper made a strangled sound. “Leo? Hazel and Frank?”
“Those are the ones,” Ephialtes agreed. “So we can use them for the sacrifice. We can let the Athena girl die, which will please Her Ladyship. And we can use you three for the show! Gaea will be a bit disappointed, but really, this is a win-win. Your deaths will be much more entertaining.”
Jason snarled. “You want entertaining? I’ll give you entertaining.”
Piper stepped forward. Somehow she managed a sweet smile. “I’ve got a better idea,” she told the giants. “Why don’t you let us go? That would be an incredible twist. Wonderful entertainment value, and it would prove to the world how cool you are.”
Nico stirred. Otis looked down at him. His snaky feet flicked their tongues at Nico’s head.
“Plus!” Piper said quickly. “Plus, we could do some dance moves as we’re escaping. Perhaps a ballet number!”
Otis forgot all about Nico. He lumbered over and wagged his finger at Ephialtes. “You see? That’s what I was telling you! It would be incredible!”
For a second, Percy thought Piper was going to pull it off. Otis looked at his brother imploringly. Ephialtes tugged at his chin as if considering the idea.
At last he shook his head. “No…no, I’m afraid not. You see, my girl, I am the anti-Dionysus. I have a reputation to uphold. Dionysus thinks he knows parties? He’s wrong! His revels are tame compared to what I can do. That old stunt we pulled, for instance, when we piled up mountains to reach Olympus—”
“I told you that would never work,” Otis muttered.
This shows that Otis and Ephialtes where strong enough to cause earthquakes and stack mountains. The special affects thing that we have argued on extensively isn't even addressed. "But the twins weren't battled by Frank, they were battled by Jason and Percy, who are separate characters with separate feats." Yes, I know this, but the twins were outright stated to be the weakest Giants. They are even physically dwarfed in stature, standing at about 12 feet, when the average is 25-30. Frank fought Alyconeous in Alaska, one of the stronger giants and the eldest, trading blows with him using a sword (well Hazel's spatha, which is basically the same thing). He was also able to take direct hits from him and the giant in the House of Hades and continue fighting (for the latter he was using the blessing of mars, the first one he wasn't). This shows that he should be capable of dealing with Hawkgirl's maceless blows.
Flight
I don't have any videos that will add anything to this that hasn't been shown already. Hawkgirl is fast, agile, and a very capable aerial combatant, more capable than anything Frank has demonstrated. If the fight gets into the air Hawkgirl will have an advantage, and even if Frank stays on the ground her flight will help her avoid attacks and land her own (see her fight with Solomon Grundy, a video focused on that is coming)
Hawkgirl is a very competant aerial combatant.But even she will have a tough time dealing with a guy who can quite literally start an attack, in the air, as a bird and end it as, let's say a rhino, and end it as a bird in a few seconds. Also, if he stays grounded the Hawkgirl will try and bulrush him (which is completely in character). What happens when she aims for a boy and misses because he decided that he felt like being a snake was a good idea at the time. Or trying to hit this boy and realizing that there is an elephant or a dragon (whose durability I will happily explain later). There are literally millions of creatures mythical or non mythical that make him much more agile than Hawkgirl can dream of being. Also Solomon Grundy shouldn't be used to gauge on how Frank will fare against Hawkgirl. He is a completely different character and character type (walking brick) than Frank is.
The Mace:
Hawkgirl only uses one weapon, but it's incredibly potent: her mace. As you've seen in the videos, Hawkgirl hits way out of her weight class with her mace, staggering characters more durable than any animal (even Frank's dragon form doesn't have any notable durability feats to make it more durable than Superman-levelers unless you have something notable I don't know of).
Often the most impressive feats are the ones most people easily overlook. You call into question Franks dragon's durability, well my friend, as evident in the scene provided in my last post, Frank's dragon is durable enough to withstand both arrows and rocks. "Wow, rocks? Really? Your best durability argument is rocks?" Actually, yes it is. You see these rocks aren't actually rocks, they are boulders fired from Roman catapults. "Yeah that's cool but most characters in the JLU easily can output more damage than a flying boulder, and especially Hawkgirl with her mace." Yes, that would be true, but once again these boulders aren't actually boulders. Let's read this next excerpt together, shall we.
Annabeth called to him as another explosion rocked the forum. This time the flash of light was directly overhead. One of the Roman catapults had fired, and the Argo II groaned and tilted sideways, flames bubbling over its bronze-plated hull.
"Wait a second, these are explosive boulders?" Yes, they are and its time for a little bit of background information. The Romans had just finished a battle with Polybotes and his army of monsters a few hours before. All of their war equipment was still in the same position that they had left it in previously. The Romans had set up these catapults in order to drive back this army filled with cyclopes, centaurs, hellhounds, dracanae, etc. "Well where are these explosions coming from?" Oh that's simple, the Romans had somehow (don't ask me how because I don't know, the story doesn't give specifics) weaponized Greek Fire in order to maximize the damage output of these boulders. Greek fire is a magical substance that can burn even underwater and it can also be used as a explosive. This is evident during Percy and Charles Beckendorf's raid on the cruise ship, Princess Andromeda. Just a few small jars were potent enough to blow up the cruise ship by a blast that could be felt hundreds of feet away. So these are not just your average boulders. In fact the catapults were strong enough to damage the Argo II, which is a huge aerial and nautical ship made of bronze, a very strong transitional metal, and damaging it enough that Leo had to stop and make repairs before it fell completely apart. These were fired at Frank the mighty dragon and not only did he survive it, he completely no-sold it. Riordan, who is a very intelligent author, uses the word "rocks" not to downplay their power but to emphasize on how huge and how durable Franks dragon had become.
The mace is also electric, which could give Hawkgirl an added edge. She can use it to shock people (top video 1:16), and even release short range electric shocks (In "The Balance" where Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl went to fight Faust she used that ability to set fire to the library).
Thats cool but there are plenty of electric resistant and electricity producing animals in the world. Plus the curse would no sell that.
However, the mace's most potent ability is that it nullifies magic-any magic. She's hurt or beaten Dr. Fate, Chaos Magic Grundy, and the Annihilator armor with her mace even when other, stronger characters were useless
Here it's shown that Hawkgirl's mace could harm the Annihilator Armor: a weapon created by Hepheastus for Ares that was blessed to be unstoppable (hmm...wonder what that sounds like?)
The video above doesn't explain itself as well: this is Chaos Magic Grundy, who was enhanced to the point of being basically invincible. Only Hawkgirl's anti-magic mace could nullify the enchantment and end Grundy's life.
This is where this gets interesting but in order not to repeat points, I will explain this in your next section.
How She's Going to Win:
Well now that I've laid out Hawkgirl's abilities, let's get down to buisness. Here's how she's going to win
- Hawkgirl hits harder than almost everyone, if not everyone, Frank's encountered (going by actual feats of course). She certainly hits harder than Frank. There's no earthly animal that could stagger Superman level characters (even DCAU level Superman) the way she does, and unless there's something amazing in the last book neither does any mythical animal that Frank's shown the ability to turn into
- Just a side note: you said Frank can turn into a fire breathing dragon. Has he ever actually breathed fire in that form?
No, she doesn't have the strength feats to match up with the giants. And the first time that he turned into a dragon, which was during the final fight in New Rome, he was breathing fire.
- Hawkgirl can take a beating from a character far stronger than Frank (Wonder Woman) and keep going. She might take some hits from Frank, but she can handle it
Frank can take a beating from characters stronger than Hawkgirl, he might take some hits but he can handle it.
- Arrows are nice, Hawkgirl regularly deals with lasers and bullets. In the first video you see her blocking Star Sapphire's blasts at the beginning. She can deal with arrows
Yes, but Arrows would be used in a tactical fashion, the same way any Marvel or DC character uses them on heavy hitters. Not to pierce, but to distract or incap.
- The skeletal warrior's good, but it's also grounded. It was also damaged by the basilisks, so it's not impossible to suggest that Hawkgirl could damage it, especially with her magic-disruption
The skeletal warrior is grounded, but Hawkgirl isn't that tactical and if an opponent is on the ground then she will ground herself as well. She may use the air to bulrush her opponent but she isn't fast enough that the skeletal warrior couldn't react to. And the basilisks damaged it, but once again it wasn't permanent, the warrior simply regenerated. (Be patient, the magic argument is coming)
- The whole bee swarm thing is nice, but there's some problems. First, how often does Frank even turn into bees in an actual fight? Usually he favors something big. Second, bee stings aren't going to take down Hawkgirl. Third, Hawkgirl's mace's electricity could shock Frank in bee form (if she doesn't just swat the bees with her mace)
He has done it twice. And I never expected the bee stings to take her down. He can use this technique defensively. Her mace would have to have an AoE big enough to affect the entire swarm to truly harm him. And swatting every bee in the swarm doesn't seem logical, especially if she is suppose to do it before another transformation.
- Now, you said the blessing of Mars was Frank's biggest defense, and normally it would be. However, Hawkgirl's mace is perfect to counter it. Now you might say "but the blessing of Mars isn't magic!" 1. The power of the Greek gods in PJ has been referred to as magic before. There's also the 2. Annihilator armor, a creation of the DCAU versions of Hepheastus and Ares that was blessed to be invincible. In it's first appearance it was taking bullets, explosions, punches from Wonder Woman, and everything else without the slightest hint of damage. Supposedly, the only way to stop it was by not fighting, but then Faust took it over and removed that weakness. 3.Then Hawkgirl came along and smashed a hole in it. Hmm...empowered by Ares (Mars), invulnerable, strong in combat...kinda sounds like Frank with the Blessing of Mars, doesn't it? Obviously it won't be spelled out for us, but this seems to be about as close of an indication as we're going to get that Hawkgirl's mace can disrupt 4. godly enchantments, meaning Frank's now vulnerable. Without the blessing of Mars, he can't take many hits from Hawkgirl, and she's more than experienced enough to land hits on him.
- 5. The best part is, Frank has no idea her mace has this power. He's going to charge into battle, confident in his invulnerability (not that he'll be reckless or anything, but he's not going to be focused on evading Hawkgirl's mace like the plague), and then Hawkgirl will put him down hard
Here we get to the fun part.
- The power of the Greek gods was referred to as magic by a source that isn't credible. Seeing as it wasn't a god, titan, primordial being, or even Chiron. Means that the statement holds no value. Prove that the power is magic. Also if all of their powers were magical, then why would they need a specific goddess of magic, Hecate? Or why did the wind gods and Hermes have trouble getting through Hecate's magical enchantment that prevented aerial assault in the Last Olympian?
- The DC universes Hepheastus and Ares are two different entities from the PJverse. The PJverses are the same ones from the myths. The DC universes are based off of those gods but have different stories and feats that differ from the original myths so cannot be taken as the same entities, although they are similar. Also the weapon was built by Hephaestus for Ares, meaning that its properties have no correlation with the blessing that was actually a gift from Ares/Mars. It was created to be invincible, not blessed.
- Yes it does indeed sound similar, but it was never truly a gift from Ares/Mars. Once again it was created by Hephaestus for Ares so its properties can only be attributed to Hephaestus.
- Magical enchantments not godly.
- Frank, even with his enchantment, doesn't take hits just because of his invulnerability. He still dodges, parries, moves, etc. He isn't the same as Percy, who was taking on bullets because of his curse, he is still the same fighter that he always was, just with a better defense.
@arcus
Well I believe that covers everything.
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