#1 Posted by nickzambuto (11423 posts) - - Show Bio

Solid Snake -

Mk. 23 SOCOM Combat Pistol

Mk. 22 Supressor Gun

Patriot

OctoCamo

Solid Eye

Link -

Goddess Bow W. Bomb arrows

Master Sword

Hylian Shield

Double Claw Shot

Goddess Harp

Fight at 30 yards.

#2 Posted by Sherlock (7074 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: Cool beans.Ill get to this in a bit.I need to rewrite my post to Cadence.Lost my bloody internet right before i posted the reply lol
#3 Posted by 18hunt (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm rootin for my homeboy link!

#4 Posted by Sherlock (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt:

@nickzambuto:


So for basic starters here its obovious that Snake has a ranged advantage on Link.A bow is great but guns were made for a reason.The only difference is the damage output from the bow.Explosions trump bullets but since getting a shot off wont be easy by any means i doubt the bow will come into play.

Getting this to a close combat situation wont be an easy task but using the clawshot to my advantage will make things easier.The clawshot will allow Link to get up into the trees and navigate them quickly.The Hylian Shield is indestructible so deflecting gun fire with it wont be a problem.

Link has also shown the ability to return projectiles to the sender (Elvis Reference there) so Snake will have to be careful of the bullets that get sent flying back.

In H2H id give Link the over all advantage   

  
   
 As iv said every Martial artist worth his salt need an cannon fodder feat.Feast your eyes.There are a bloody great many of them huh?They are at least in the upper hundreds here.Thats something not many street levelers can boast of.Not only is the number gargantuan but they also have archers.As anyone will say fighting h2h while being shot at is no picnic.Add to that some suicide bombers and you have a recipe for destruction.
 
That must have really taken its toll on poor Link.After that id personally want a cold beer and a sandwich.Link gets no such thing.Right after he gets to fight the Demon Lord Ghirahim (AKA Ziggy Stardust).Now this is a guy you dont want to mess with.On top of his impressive swordsman skills he can also boast being a powerful magic user,capable of creating solid constructs and weapons.Some of which he can control via TK.As if that werent enough the guy also has super speed and in his black form is nearly indestructible.Lets also not forget his ability to teleport.Yikes!
Needless to say Link survives and wins both of these encounters.
 
Balls in your court Nick

 
#5 Posted by Sherlock (7074 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Edited by nickzambuto (11423 posts) - - Show Bio

True, any decent martial artist needs his cannon fodder feats, but it's not like Snake is without his own. Defeating four INVISIBLE soldiers at once in a close quarters elevator shaft, killing a group of Genomes with their weapons already trained on him before anyone can even react, and of course his systematic annihilation of Big Mama's elite guard in their own place.

ALL that is strictly CC. Opening up Snake's arsenal a bit, the man has fought off entire armies at a time, so there is no doubt that he not only can, but already has matched Link's feat.

Cannon fodder is cannon fodder, but the fact that those little pests just ran around aimlessly for Link to one shot pretty much puts them on a whole new level. Comparatively, Snake's usual cannon fodder is a bit more elite; Genetically Enhanced Super Soldiers all hocked up on Super Soldier Serum, plus technologically enhanced private mercenaries, are most definitely more than your average thug. For reference, Colonel Campbell is quoted as saying that the Genome Army is far more dangerous then the entire Nuclear Stockpile on all of Shadow Moses Island put together.

Take a guess at which army Snake then went on to wipe out.

There's also the fact that Link only fought those grunts in waves, rather than all at once. He never actually fought more than a dozen or so enemies at a time.

With all these factors in mind, I have no doubt that, were he to be placed in the same situation, Solid Snake could replicate that feat.

Hell, may not be up to par with what Link did, but I consider this a pretty admirable feat, especially with the ease of which Fox did it with.

Few minutes later, this happened

Now, the Cyborg Ninja was a lightning fast 100 tonner who was cutting bullets midair before even becoming a Cyborg. In additon, Frank Jaeger was the top agent FOXHOUND ever had, equivocal to the League of Assassins, so he's not without skill either.

Beating him in CC is pretty much the best H2H feat a guy can have.

Which brings me to my next point; how will this fight go down. There are two ways our combatants can go about this, both of which branch off into a number of their own variables and dependents, ALL in the end leading to, in my opinion, a hard earned victory for Snake.

SCENARIO 1: RANGE

You said yourself Link won't fair well at range and will attempt to get in close, so I won't dwell on this for too long, but I just want to make a few points clear.

We seem to be in agreement that Assault Rifle>Bow and Arrow; though not slow, arrows aren't really fast either; not enough to catch Snake at least. Link has special exploding munitions of course, but again, it's not something Snake will have much trouble dealing with, when the guy can escape the blast radius of a tank missile unscathed, tank shells moving faster than arrows of course.

Comparatively, Link might have difficulty dodging automatic fire from a marksman of Snake's caliber, who as we've been over has fought off armies, killed Sniper Wolf in a sniper duel despite the latter being heralded as the greatest sniper on the planet, and stalemated Revolver Ocelot, which is not easy to do.

^ Ocelot sharpshooting, killing an entire KGB team in bullet time with superhuman perception, bullet ricocheting, plus Big Boss fight scene (Solid Snake>Big Boss)

All this leads to Snake winning in a ranged battle. Link can deflect Snake's bullets back at him of course, but the soldier has dodged a lot more than his own gunfire (Ocelot's gunfire for example. Mach 20 Rail Gun projectile, and Vamp's knives, which Cyborg Raiden deadpanned that he himself couldn't, and much like Gray Fox, Raiden was deflecting Machine Gun fire before even becoming a Cyborg)

Not as if Snake will just blast Link and be done with it. The elf is a great marksman in his own right, and his variety of different types of arrows will surely catch Snake off guard, but I'm confident that in combination with his superhuman reaction time and firearm skill, Snake will be the last man standing in the end (or are we using kid Link here? Ok, Snake will be the last human standing. Err, Snake will be the last sentient life form standing. There, that good?)

SCENARIO 2: CLOSE QUARTERS

Now here is where things get interesting. Assuming Snake doesn't gun Link down before the elf can reach him (I'll be looking for some pretty good speed feats of Link that justify him doing so!) we'll have a pretty epic battle on our hands, if I do say so myself.

Starting with the actual means to battle - weaponry - Link uses a sword. His potential to one shot Snake with a well aimed swing might make it seem like he has the immediate advantage, but there's more to it then that. First thing to get out of the way, it's not like Snake hasn't dealt with swords before. He's actually a master in his own right, it's just that he's "not a fan of blades", as he himself put it.

Doesn't change the fact that after a 10 minute crash course in sword use from Snake, Raiden, a guy who's never even held a sword before in his life, became a master ninja. It's mentioned that Snake and Olga had an offscreen altercation during the Big Shell Incident, and Olga was a highly proficient swordswoman (easily cutting down a hailstorm of bullets from a few dozen soldiers at once)

Though their fight was H2H, it's still worth noting that Gray Fox was one of the greatest swordsman around. Vamp was a "wizard with knives" and skilled enough to beat down a 100 tonner in knife combat, but Old Snake CQCd and easily got the better of him.

Point is: Solid Snake knows his way around a blade. Hell, his twin clone Solidus Snake was a proficient sword wielder, and they were almost identical on the genetic level.

So while Link's use of a sword poses great danger for Solid Snake, it also severely limits Link in his options. All he can do is swing and stab, complex maneuvers like holds and throws are not an option. Ironically, holds and throws are exactly what Snake specializes in.

So what it's gonna come down to is simply Snake maneuvering around the blade until he sees an opening, then it's all over. You're a Resident Evil fan yes? Well then, you might be familiar with Ada's fight with Svetlana in Damnation. The two seemed pretty even at first, but once Ada got a knife, all Svetlana had to do was dodge, and counter. Ada's only option was to swing until she hit, countering and defense was almost impossible; same goes for Link.

Coupled with Snake's vastly superior physicals, this should be more than do-able.

#7 Posted by nickzambuto (11423 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that introductions are over with, it's time to breakdown an actual battle strategy. Snake's greatest advantage in this fight, as is his advantage in all fights, is his propensity for stealth. The man is the sneak-king, I don't have to tell you that, hell, take a look at the CQC fight above, maybe you didn't catch David vanishing from thin air and reappearing right next to the soldier?

The Genome Soldiers all have enhanced superhuman senses, yet Snake made them look like fools. Gurlukovich's mercenary force was the best in the business, but sneaking around them wasn't even worth Snake's time; that's how we got Raiden. The PMCs of course all had nanomachines flowing through their blood that turned a man who'd never even fired a gun into a capable soldier. The MGS4 novel describes a single PMC sniper as headshotting two militiamen jumping from a truck before their feet even hit the ground. In addition, they all have enhanced senses and an almost mental link allowing for perfect teamwork, and coordination. Quote, "They see what I see."

Again, Snake made fools of them all, MGS4 leads us to believe that Snake never fired a single bullet in his entire mission that wasn't a scripted sequence. From the Novel,

Snake went prone upon the gravel, and his camouflage shifted to blend in. Slowly, he crawled through the open streets like an inchworm. The area outside the base provided no cover, but Snake, utilizing Native American tracking techniques, gave the soldiers nothing to see and nothing to hear.

Of course the OctoCamo was a major factor in his success, but Snake's sense of connection with the world around him was even more crucial. He was part of his surroundings, a part of the world. By closely matching himself in with that baseline, he could be more stealthy then what might seem possible.

Add in his OctoCamo suit to all this, and he's nearly invisible.

It won't take Snake much to make Link lose sight of him, and from there, all it takes is a press of a button and Snake has the entire area mapped out on his Solid Eye.

The Solid Eye is an eyepatch-like radar that maps out and keeps track of the entire area, weapons, and enemies, all in real time. All it takes is one second and Snake knows not only exactly where Link is, but everything Link has in his arsenal. A minute or two later, and that 180 IQ will go to work on forming out a plan of attack.

I really don't see any counters Link can have to keep Snake from sneaking up on him, unless the guy has some REALLY good situational awareness. Obviously the soldier won't be one shotting Link from behind, but if David can get the drop on him, that's all he needs to secure a victory.

#8 Posted by Sherlock (7074 posts) - - Show Bio

I will get on this the holiday has been busy for me

#9 Posted by Sherlock (7074 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto said:

@Sherlock

True, any decent martial artist needs his cannon fodder feats, but it's not like Snake is without his own. Defeating four INVISIBLE soldiers at once in a close quarters elevator shaft, killing a group of Genomes with their weapons already trained on him before anyone can even react, and of course his systematic annihilation of Big Mama's elite guard in their own place.

ALL that is strictly CC. Opening up Snake's arsenal a bit, the man has fought off entire armies at a time, so there is no doubt that he not only can, but already has matched Link's feat.

 

 Im sorry but am i missing something in that video?That like four guys there.Hardly an army.Are you talking about a different instance?Do you have the stipulations for said instance?How did Snake go about it?How many were there?Was it all at once?These make a huge difference 

Cannon fodder is cannon fodder, but the fact that those little pests just ran around aimlessly for Link to one shot pretty much puts them on a whole new level. Comparatively, Snake's usual cannon fodder is a bit more elite; Genetically Enhanced Super Soldiers all hocked up on Super Soldier Serum, plus technologically enhanced private mercenaries, are most definitely more than your average thug. For reference, Colonel Campbell is quoted as saying that the Genome Army is far more dangerous then the entire Nuclear Stockpile on all of Shadow Moses Island put together.


Cannon Fodder is cannon fodder.Plain and simple.You can say that Snake has elite cannon fodder but the fact remains that they are still cannon fodder.Supposedly Hand,and LoS Ninjas are highly skilled.Oddly enough as highly skilled as they are they get taken down in hordes by any street leveler worth anything.Your modified soldiers may be "Better" than your average thug but they still get taken down like an average thug when they come in contact with the hero. 
 
If said army cant take out a small country in a matter of seconds then they arent even close to as dangerous as a nuclear stockpile. 
 

There's also the fact that Link only fought those grunts in waves, rather than all at once. He never actually fought more than a dozen or so enemies at a time.


Id suggest rewatching the video then.That was not a dozen by any stretch of the imagination.TBH obvious lowballing is never a good way to go about a debate. 

Hell, may not be up to par with what Link did, but I consider this a pretty admirable feat, especially with the ease of which Fox did it with.

Few minutes later, this happened

Now, the Cyborg Ninja was a lightning fast 100 tonner who was cutting bullets midair before even becoming a Cyborg. In additon, Frank Jaeger was the top agent FOXHOUND ever had, equivocal to the League of Assassins, so he's not without skill either.

Beating him in CC is pretty much the best H2H feat a guy can have.

Which brings me to my next point; how will this fight go down. There are two ways our combatants can go about this, both of which branch off into a number of their own variables and dependents, ALL in the end leading to, in my opinion, a hard earned victory for Snake.

 

I hope you arent referencing the vid you showed me with the bad animation.Hate to say it (Again) but not one bullet in that video was deflected.
 
Im kinda curious.Since the ninja dude can go invisible and move at ridiculous speeds why didnt he do that once in the fight?Seems to me that he wasnt giving the fight a whole lot of effort 
 

Comparatively, Link might have difficulty dodging automatic fire from a marksman of Snake's caliber, who as we've been over has fought off armies, killed Sniper Wolf in a sniper duel despite the latter being heralded as the greatest sniper on the planet, and stalemated Revolver Ocelot, which is not easy to do.

^ Ocelot sharpshooting, killing an entire KGB team in bullet time with superhuman perception, bullet ricocheting, plus Big Boss fight scene (Solid Snake>Big Boss)

All this leads to Snake winning in a ranged battle. Link can deflect Snake's bullets back at him of course, but the soldier has dodged a lot more than his own gunfire (Ocelot's gunfire for example. Mach 20 Rail Gun projectile, and Vamp's knives, which Cyborg Raiden deadpanned that he himself couldn't, and much like Gray Fox, Raiden was deflecting Machine Gun fire before even becoming a Cyborg)


  Link doesnt need to dodge anything he has a shield which can block pretty much any projectile attack Snake can use.As already stated the thing is indestructible. 
 
That is a nice showing for Ocelot as far as aim goes.The ricochet is a nice touch.A couple things i want to note though. 
First i want to make note of the first two KGB guys he shot.The first one was on the ground before he got off the next shot.The second one fell from a tower and again hit the ground before another shot was fired.This being the case while the shots in and of themselves were good,the people being shot were pathetic.If they didnt shoot at him once after two of their guys were gunned down then they dont do their job very well.This is also a bit of a blow to the higher than normal cannon fodder you were talking about.Needless to say im not impressed by it. 
 
Second i want to note that this is the single worst dodging feat i have ever seen.Ocelot didnt fire one single shot at Snake.That kinda takes away from a dodging feat. 
 
Now i agree that if Link trying to Snipe Snake with his bow hes going to lose.Guns>Bows fact.That being said closing the area is not out of the question by any means.First of all nothing is going through Links shield.If need be he can march forward like that.Next he has his clawshot.The clawshot is basically a graple cannon.He can easily get into the trees quickly using it and keep going through the trees making a very hard Target for snake. 
 


So while Link's use of a sword poses great danger for Solid Snake, it also severely limits Link in his options. All he can do is swing and stab, complex maneuvers like holds and throws are not an option. Ironically, holds and throws are exactly what Snake specializes in.

So what it's gonna come down to is simply Snake maneuvering around the blade until he sees an opening, then it's all over. You're a Resident Evil fan yes? Well then, you might be familiar with Ada's fight with Svetlana in Damnation. The two seemed pretty even at first, but once Ada got a knife, all Svetlana had to do was dodge, and counter. Ada's only option was to swing until she hit, countering and defense was almost impossible; same goes for Link.

Coupled with Snake's vastly superior physicals, this should be more than do-able.

It does seem here that you are trying to say that Link is at a disadvantage for having a sword when Snake doesn't.For this i must say,Are you freaking serious?Why the heck would Link grab Snake when he can cut him in half?What good does that do him?The entire notion of that is utterly ridiculous.Weapon>>>>>>>>>>>>Unarmed.Its an undisputed fact.Why do you think we as humans made weapons?If we could all do better without them then what on gods good earth was the point of creating the sword in the first place?Again the notion is ridiculous and false 
 
LMFAO.Now lets go over the part that is bolded.Defence is impossible?You know what a shield is correct?You know what they are made for yes?Thats right defending yourself. 
 
Im not trying to be rude here put this entire segment of your post is filled with absolute and utter fail.  
 
 
 


 I just watched this and i want to make a special note of what he says at 2:07 
"If you start walking or running or making a lot of noise youll risk getting spotted by an enemy" 
Im going to assume this is true since you were the one who posted it. 
Im also going to go out on a limb here.I tend to think we will see each other at the start of the fight.Is Snake going to drop to the ground instantly and not move again for the rest of the fight?As stated in the video if you move then you can be spotted. 
 
Link has had multiple occasions where has had to fight invisible opponents as well as telelporters.An entire dungeon in Ocarina of Time was jammed packed with invisible enemies,walls,floors Etc.Needless to say someone getting the jump on him isnt the end of the world. 
 
 
  
  This is just to get an idea of how fast the clawshot propels you.Mae a note this is the single clawshot and is not as effective as the double