CaV: NickZ (Big Boss) vs jwalser3 (Predator)

Here tonight, deep in an uncharted jungle, we have a match that will undoubtedly become nothing short of legend. Starting right in the heart of the jungle, the hunter has become the pray and he's loving every second of it, the greatest soldier to ever walk the planet, Naked Snake AKA Big Boss himself!

And then of course, the hunter and gamemaker of this match, stationed strategically at the top of a mountain, the Predator! An Elder to be exact, coming from a species entirely existent just to f*ck sh*t up, his vast skill and experience make make him one of the best in their ranks.

• Both combatants are fully knowledgable on their opponent
• Both combatants are in character with morals on
• Snake is decked out in jungle fatigues and face paint, and equipped with a Mk. 23 Tranquilizer, Survival Knife, Patriot, and Binoculars
• The Elder has his wrist blades, spear, net, and plasma cannon
• Opponents both know where the other begins, but after that it's hide n' seek
• Fight to the death

@jwalser3 Everything look good?

Everything looks great! I'll get started later tonight!

I don't see how Big Boss is suppose to take out an Elder, it's just too strong and skilled.

@nick_hero22 said:

I don't see how Big Boss is suppose to take out an Elder, it's just to strong and skilled.

*too

@nickzambuto: Alright, let me start off with that Predators are used to facing people like snake, Spec ops, Military, Marines, etc. While I know Snake is tough guy, I believe an Elder has the edge in what makes this fight.

This setting is perfect for the Predator, and being at least 1000 years old has seen some tough hunts. Fighting military, xenomorphs, and other aliens in the galaxy. So one man won't tough for this Elder to put down. Predators have been known to hunt in the jungle, with the knowlege of Snake's location only makes it easier for him.

Speed: In Predator we see the Young Blood able to outrun gunfire and cut off the arm of the soldier firing at him. The same Predator was able to only get hit in the leg as a 5 man squad of Green Berets fired rifles, a mini gun, grenade launchers, etc at him. It is impressive that he was only hit ounce out of all the fire power being thrown at him. Also in AVP we see a Blooded Predator stop a Xenomoprh from sneaking up on him, slicing off his face.

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The predator came out of the spaceship again, in full armor. Gustat had a clear shot, and the ArmaLite AR-50 wasn't a joke. He would probably make a dent in the Predator's armor, maybe even several dents. Possibly kill him, although the creatures reflexes were so freakishly fast that Gustat doubted it, not without a chance at a headshot sans helmet.

- South China Sea

The thing moved so fast it almost seemed to be dodging the bullets as it turned and ran back down the canyon. The Russian charged after it, bellowing.

- Predator: Cold War Page 210

"I care about something," she told him, "I care about my men!"

"Yeah, I care about something," Schaefer said. "I care about the fact that when that thing's done with your friends, it'll probably find us. Do you have a knife?"

She blinked up at him. "A knife?"

"Those things are fast enough to dodge bullets, if they see them coming," Schaefer explained. "And even if you hit them, they're damn near bulletproof. Knives, well... they can dodge knives too, if they have a chance but I don't intend to give this one a chance."

-Predator: Cold War page 213

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Leaping: In AVP, the very end fight scene we see a Blooded Predator jump well over a Xenomorph Queen, they're at least 20 feet tall, we see him jump way beyond that.

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This will all help with moving and evading threw the forest. Making it much easier for him to hunt down Snake.

Durability: In Predator 2 we see the Predator get shot up in the freeze room and faked being dead so the detective could get closer to him and then says "Ugly motherf*cker"

Yeyinde held his head high as `A'ni-de traced a claw wet with Hard Meat thwei in the space between his eyes. He ignored the sharp sting as the acid thwei cut into his flesh to mingle with his own blood, blood that neutralized much of the Hard Meat's power. The burning mark was proof of his skill and his adulthood, a jagged etched badge for all to see.
. . .
The warrior dipped one claw into the alien blood and then spat on the claw. His own blood mixed with the alien's acidic ichor. That was part of it. His blood would partly neutralize the potent chemicals from the Hard Meat. Moving with great care, he reached out and etched his mark into her pale skin, on the forehead, between her eyes. He managed to keep his hand from shaking long enough to draw his symbol.

- Prey

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Coming from a different angle, the bullet entered the Predator's body. This third bullet lodged deep inside, coming to rest only after it had cut through several vital organs.
. . .
"The demon isn't dead yet," said Sukhon.
"The 'demon' will be dead if it doesn't get some expert medical attention. I put a bullet with an exploding tip right through its back. No exit wound."
. . .
Still, the Predator's condition did not yet warrant self-destruct. He had been hurt worse and emerged victorious. Once on a planet half a galaxy away, a venomous metal worm twice his size had shot up through the earth and pinned him through the chest armour. The Predator had chopped its head off, cut off its tail, and gone on to fight for another four hours with the rest of the worm inside his chest, before withdrawing to repair the damage. The wheeze as its breathing grew worse indicated deep-tissue damage, but nothing irreversible. Medical care on board its ship would allow it to recover.

- South China Sea

Tanking a gun shot to the eye(5:25)

I'll post some weapon feats and fighting skills in a little bit.

Back!

Strength:

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Weapons:

Plasma cannon

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I'll post some more later if I can!

@jwalser3

As skilled and experienced as every Predator is, I don't think any of them, in all their travels, have ever faced anyone quite like Big Boss. On paper, a mere soldier, no matter how highly trained, could never compete with any of the forces he regularly deals with. But as anyone can tell you, Naked Snake is no "mere soldier". He's a natural born warrior, bred and raised for combat, living for nothing besides the thrill of combat, in his own words. While at face value Snake seems majorly outclassed by the Predator, he has shown time and time again the ability to cope and adapt to any situation, revising his tactics on the spot and instinctively exploiting every opening there is to find. Big Boss is an unbeatable combatant, always finding a way to win, because he was born that way. He's a warrior down to the genetic level, abundant in "soldier genes" which made him more than human. These genes were later harvested and used to mass produce a super soldier army, who, to quote Colonel Campbell, were a more dangerous force than the entire nuclear stockpile on Shadow Moses Island put together.

Big Boss himself, as a single man equipped with an AK, was considered a nuclear power back in the Cold War. A lone agent, responsible for the fall of nations.

As you can see, Big Boss is no "mere soldier".

And of course, the jungle might be a Predator's stomping grounds, but Snake has made it his home. He's openly admitted to being literally incapable of leading a civilian life; he's tried it, he tried becoming an instructor, he even became a hunter. But nothing satisfied him, and eventually, he chose to put himself back into the middle of war.

In this scenario, Snake has the distinct advantage of having stealth on his side. In an open wilderness like this, simply finding your opponent would prove nearly impossible to any average soldier. Luckily for me, Big Boss is one of the greatest hunters in all of fiction. Predators are of course great at sneaking around, but they usually have their cloaking devices to help with that. Snake meanwhile, already has tracked and beaten an invisible enemy in the middle of a jungle, WHILE a deadly poison coursed through his body.

(The Fear, as seen above, was a supernaturally adept agent during WWII, unnaturally agile and fast enough to run across water. He was equipped with a modified bow and various trick arrows, not to mention stealth camo making him invisible. Snake's stealth and tracking skills were sufficient to hunt him down through the jungle, and successfully kill him with nothing but standard fatigues)

(The Fear, a century old, legendary sniper, who's unique Moss camouflage truly made him one with the Earth; undetectable. He had the element of surprise against Snake, superior weapons, and not to mention a spotter (his parrot). Don't let his age fool you, he was 100% superhuman in stats, not to mention he was capable of "talking to the forest". In an unbelievable showing of skill and instinct, Snake literally snuck through the jungle - without the jungle knowing he was there! He tracked down The End, bested him in a sniper duel, and soldified himself as a legend)

Both of the above are great examples of Big Boss's instinct and adaptability.

Point is, you can be as sneaky as you want, Snake has the skills to track you down, and the take you out. There's no hiding from the greatest hunter in the world. Conversely, I don't think the Predator has shown capable of detecting Snake before being snuck up on. Big Boss will have the drop on his enemy, and pelt him with rapid fire Patriot rounds (custom high powered machine gun, infinite ammo and powerful enough make shit friggin explode on impact. Predator can't tank more than a few rounds from this)

Direct stealth feats for Big Boss include-

• Making his way across the entire Tselinoyarsk jungle completely undetected by an army of actively patrolling Spetsnaz troops
• Avoiding a platoon of CIA operatives strategically placed in the forest with custom camo to ambush him
• Sneaking through a crowd of people to get the drop on Gene
• Disappeared from Python's sight, then beating him by using the fog created by Python's own suit to sneak around an open area
• His approach is subtle enough to disable active claymores
• Outstealthing foes with enhanced senses
• Leading the half-dead EVA through several miles of forest, remaining undetected from the squadron of GRU soldiers actively hunting them down

A direct conflict between these two is an interesting debate, but stats won't matter when Snake is capable of sneaking up on the Predator and blasting him with gunfire. You've shown plenty instances of him dodging bullets, but never from a marksman of Big Boss's caliber.

@nickzambuto I have played Snake Eater and I expected you to use "The Fear" lol. But any way, the strength and h2h skill of the Predator should be enough to take out Snake. With other 500+ years of experience he has to be the better hunter. The whole culture is the hunt. The Predator is to strong, durable, fast, and better at h2h. Facing hordes of Xenomorphs, military, etc. this Predator will make a trophy out of Snake. I'll post feats tomorrow with a predator taking out 5+ full armor men without cloaking. And I'll post veteran class fighting Xenomorph hords.

Man this is pretty intense.

Back!

Skill: Just to get a thought of what a high class Predator can do, look at Wolf from AVP:R. He is at least a Vetren, and he was slaughtering Xenomorphs left and right; tanking bullets and holding his own against the Predalien.

One of the creatures ran after him, moving inhumanly fast, so fast Buyanov could not properly follow the motion. As Dmitri's hand reached for the alarm handle, the thing's hand slammed down on the top of the Russian's head.

- Cold War

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The creature holding the spead seemed to side-step the bullets easily.Then it jabbed the spear forward, and Gunin no longer worried about spikes or bullets, or anything else as the thing cut his heart out with a single quick gesture.After that, the alien disappeared, blurring into invisibility

- Predator: Cold War

He was Leader of the Ne'dtesei, son and grandson of ship leaders and warrior trainers, and he bowed to no one in his skill with blade or burner. His own trophy wall on the homeworld held half a dozen of the Hard Meat skulls, bleached and clean, including the one he had killed with his bare hands, as well as a queen, taken during a hellish hunt in which nine already-Blooded warriors had died. He had killed fifty others, but had kept, as was proper, only those he had thought worthy of his wall. They were fierce, but usually no challenge to one such as himself. If he had occasion to face one on these Hunts, he would limit himself to spear or wrist knife. After all, any yautja could burn the Hard Meat; a Leader had to handicap himself. The females smiled upon a brave male more often than they did others.

- Prey

He'd lost his spear - The snarling bug drove its head downward, opened its mouth,exposed its inner jaws - he plunged his fist into its mouth.The alien gagged and bit down. Dachande felt the dagger teeth pierce his arm but he drove his claws in deeper, dug deep into softer flesh - The drone jerked its talons away from Dachande's throat and clutched at its own. The Leader brought up his other fist and slammed the bug's neck, hard.The drone spilled to the side. Dachande let the weight of the creature pull him over to land on top of it. He grabbed for the burner, that sent a shooting pain through his side - and brought the blunt end down on the bug's slender throat. The drone let go of his arm and died.

-Prey

But I say that Snake is a good fighter, no doubt. But the years he has been out in the field are not comparable to living in a society that is all about hunting for over hundreds of years. The stats and skills the Predator has stomps what Snake has. The weapons you gave Snake are no match for, wrist blades that can cut threw tank armor, shoulder cannons that can blow up small spaceships and fire multiple rounds in seconds, and a spear that can go threw stone. The net was just a little extra he can use for a trap or do what he did to one of the mercs in AVP.

As for the comment, "Snake is capable of sneaking up on the Predator and blasting him with gunfire. You've shown plenty instances of him dodging bullets, but never from a marksman of Big Boss's caliber." Snake isn't sneaking up on the Predator. They have fast Xenomorphs and invisible mercs trying to sneak up on them, senseing them before they got the drop on them. Especially at this rank, begining of the fight the Elder will most likely study the jungle(seeing how he will be able to move around faster) and watch over Snake before he goes in for the kill.

Range: Predator, shoulder cannon will lock on to Snake and even if he misses, the volly of the explosion could kill him....or the speed.

H2H: Predator, I know Snake is very skilled in CQC(that sick ass moment in Guns of the Patriots ;) ) but the durability, speed, and strength the Predator has is enough to handle him. Plus, the skill, when you're able to face creatures with acid blood, tails, claws, etc. makes it seem like they can handle multiple targets with unpredictable attacks. Also, they have face creatures way bigger then them(Queen, metal worm)

Snake will put up a great fight, but in the end this Elder is going home with a new trophy.

@nickzambuto:I edited the last post.

@jwalser3 said:

@nickzambuto:I edited the last post.

(Sorry about the delay, I wasn't available yesterday or today. I can definitely get on this tomorrow though)

@nickzambuto: Take your time, I've been busy too.

@jwalser3

At a certain point, experience doesn't matter so much anymore. Big Boss isn't quite as old as the Predator, but in his adventurous life, he's already seen everything there is to see. Seeing it again won't make a difference. In his time, Big Boss has faced it all at some point or another: bestial mutants, hulking monsters, enhanced super soldiers, artificial ninjas, tyrannical war mongers, masterminding dictators, legendary assassins, giant robots, and killer cyborgs. He's beaten them all. Throughout his whole life, only one person has ever gotten the better of Big Boss, and that was The Boss herself, his former mentor. Snake spent years as her personal disciple, and together, they developed innumerable combat techniques and field strategics, the most significant of which being the advent of CQC (take note; Snake didn't master a fighting style. He created one).

Jack has since been a Green Beret, joined the Army, undergone Marine training, fought in the Korean War as an LRRP, fought in the Vietnam War as an SOG, participated in literally hundreds of battles as a mercenary, and became FOX's top agent. He's won numerous awards for his service in the military, and his training is all encompassing and absolutely top notch. But none of it holds even a candle to what he learned from The Boss. It's like dining on steak and lobster, then going home for Ramen Noodles. You're correct in saying the Predator is better equipped in this scenario, but it's that exact reliance on technology that should justify Snake as being more skilled. In his line of work, infiltrating global hotspots and uncovering national conspiracies, you can't afford to be sent in with gear on the threat of the enemy finding out who you're working for. True to his codename, Naked Snake is always sent in completely naked. He's master of strategic procure-on-sight and unbelievably resourceful, improvising everything around him to suit his needs. Comparatively, a Predator's hunt involves taking a species infinitely weaker than its own (humans), throwing them in the middle of wherever with no hope of survival, then stalking them with advanced technology. The odds are always against Snake, he's one man fighting off armies. But the Predator usually has everything going for it; the humans are the main characters and the underdogs after all. Despite an unmeasurable disadvantage, they usually win anyway. Surely Snake, who's skill and prowess are far beyond any normal soldier and have gone down in the Black Ops world as straight legend, could do the same?

Snake singlehandedly takes down entire squadrons of top notch agents at a time, often going completely unarmed against some of the most highly regarded units around. Even after having not used CQC in years and admitting himself that he was rusty, Snake effortlessly defeated the entire Ocelot Unit, using realistic, military style combat techniques

Ocelot himself was nearly oneshotted; considering this guy made Commander at the age of 18 and took down EVA with absolutely no effort, it goes to show how truly above the average soldier Naked Snake really is.

When it comes to skill, Big Boss has the edge needed to win the match. He has singlehandedly gunned down whole platoons of soldiers at a time, defeated a league of snipers with just an Assault Rifle, reportedly picked up on the Pupa's attack patterns within seconds, and seduced both ADAM and EVE by being a badass without trying - or even realizing it. (And when I say he's more skilled, I just mean in general, not any specific category)

My main argument here is that Snake can use stealth to take the Predator down quickly. He's snuck up on tougher characters before.

Snake isn't sneaking up on the Predator. They have fast Xenomorphs and invisible mercs trying to sneak up on them, senseing them before they got the drop on them.

Bestial Xenomorphs and random mercs aren't exactly top tier on steath.

Snake has gotten around characters with better senses than the Predator,

he's gotten around characters more stealthy than the Predator,

he's gotten around characters smarter than the Predator,

and he's gotten around characters with better equipment than the Predator.

If all that's true, he should be able to get around the Predator.

Especially at this rank, begining of the fight the Elder will most likely study the jungle(seeing how he will be able to move around faster) and watch over Snake before he goes in for the kill.

How will the Predator find Snake without some special gear? Like I've been over, Big Boss hid from an invisible stealth master, tracked him down, and defeated him. The End couldn't sense Big Boss despite being connected to the jungle itself.

How good of a tracker is an Elder Predator? Because that's all that matters in this game. Since the combatants are aware of the other's start point, I'm thinking Big Boss can make his way up to the mountain, find his opponent's last known location, and track it down from there. Then, when he finds it, he can blast it with gunfire that will eat through the alien's body (the Patriot is not a normal gun).

Predator, shoulder cannon will lock on to Snake and even if he misses, the volly of the explosion could kill him....or the speed.

That's only if the Predator finds Snake, which I don't think he can do before Snake finds him.

Either way, Big Boss is above a bullet timer, so I think he can stay alive (outrunning a barrage of gunfire down a tunnel from dozens of soldiers without getting shot once, dodging hypersonic Rail Gun blasts from the Chrysalis, dodging lightning)

H2H: Predator, I know Snake is very skilled in CQC(that sick ass moment in Guns of the Patriots ;) ) but the durability, speed, and strength the Predator has is enough to handle him. Plus, the skill, when you're able to face creatures with acid blood, tails, claws, etc. makes it seem like they can handle multiple targets with unpredictable attacks. Also, they have face creatures way bigger then them(Queen, metal worm)

Snake would never engage the Predator in close quarters combat unless there was no other choice. I believe his combination of skill and low-metahuman stats would be enough to put up a fight, though. In raw h2h skills, Big Boss has the edge IMO.

^ defeats Colonel Volgin despite suffering from severe injury. Volgin is a highly skilled fighter with vast training and was a former championship boxer and strong enough to punch holes through the Shagohad's armor. And as displayed several times, he's quite speedy despite his bruteness.

• Snake was skilled enough to overcome the overwhelming power and stat advantage of the Colonel
• Snake was strong enough to have a man who withstands RPGs, coughing up blood
• Snake was fast enough to avoid Volgin's lightning

^ stomps Null. Frank Jaeger was a former child soldier who was skilled enough to kill dozens of armed men at a time with just a single knife. Later he was the subject of innumerable experiments and gene therapy as part of the "perfect soldier" project. He was the only subject to survive.

• Snake was fast enough to avoid every single one of Null's sword strikes, despite Null moving fast enough to deflect machine gun fire
• Frank Jaeger was an inhuman fighter even as a boy, but after the Perfect Soldier project he became hyper sensitive, superhuman speed and reflexes plus the ability to read his opponent's muscles. Beating him is a testament to Snake's CQC prowess.

^ the aftermath of Snake's fight with Gene. Gene possessed a MAJOR stat edge over Snake, being fast enough to blitz a precog and effortlessly dodge chaingun fire while appearing to stand still. He's also superhumanly skilled in h2h combat, having created a CQC derivative literally called "CQC Enhancer"

• Snake is fast enough to keep up with a man faster than thought in combat
• This is a supreme skill showing for Snake, considering his opponent's monumental physical edge as well as great intelligence and elite training

-Miscellaneous Physical Feats:

• Forced open a parking garage door with his bare hands (overcoming the motor)
• Cut through prison bars in a few seconds
• Moved faster than Dr. Strangelove could perceive
• Overpowered Revolver Ocelot, The Boss, and Solid Snake (all showed superhuman strength)
• Dodged gunfire just from the sound of it
• Tanks falling from hundreds of feet
• Survives standing at ground zero of an ICBM launch
• Withstands extreme radiation exposure at Bikini Atoll with no symptoms besides infertility (all his friends died)

Of course, this is all hypothetical. I can go into better detail about a h2h fight, but thing is, that simply won't happen. I'm not convinced the Predator is spatially aware enough to stop Snake from sneaking up within a few dozen feat of him. Big Boss is easily a good enough tracker, it's just a matter of time. Once he spots his foe, a quick blast of gunfire will end it.

@nickzambuto: Damn! Lol, I'll get back to this ASAP.

@jwalser3

@nickzambuto: So sorry. I have to get back to another CAV battles lol.

I just don't know what you want me to say at this point.

At 1:15:20 (end at 1:17:22)the Predator gets hit multiple times by a shot gun and is fine. They can tank lighting, rockets, gun fire, etc. So this "Once he spots his foe, a quick blast of gunfire will end it" Won't cut it.

I've shown you scans/ quotes of them being faster then the human eye/ side stepping bullets.

Now were did he "Stomp" Null? He dodge 1 attack from him. And yeah, that part of the CQC montage were all those white shirt soldiers are standing around as Snake uses a highschool wrestling move on them isn't impressive. I know he has better CQC feats then those. Like the ones from the psp were good.

Strength wise, Predator has this. "Forced open a parking garage door with his bare hands (overcoming the motor)"So?Scarface was able to overcome the locking mechanism of maximum security gate (1:45 and 4:25)

At 1:51 the Predator is strong enough to stab through stone

While he has mostly blade weapons, they're incredibly strong.

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And then Predators' fighting skill.

How good of a tracker is an Elder Predator? Because that's all that matters in this game. Since the combatants are aware of the other's start point, I'm thinking Big Boss can make his way up to the mountain, find his opponent's last known location, and track it down from there. Then, when he finds it, he can blast it with gunfire that will eat through the alien's body (the Patriot is not a normal gun).

The same can go for the Predator? Hell, he has the stats to cover more ground faster. Climbing up hill vs. climbing down hill? Good luck with that.

Bestial Xenomorphs and random mercs aren't exactly top tier on steath.

Snake has gotten around characters with better senses than the Predator,

he's gotten around characters more stealthy than the Predator,

he's gotten around characters smarter than the Predator,

and he's gotten around characters with better equipment than the Predator.

If all that's true, he should be able to get around the Predator.

While Xenomorphs are hive minded they're incredibly smart, and if "mercs" with stealth suits isn't good enough, then neither is those whole platoons Snake brought down.

Like who? The Fear? That is the only character that I can recall that is close to a Predator.

Again all I remember is the Fear; but a guy running around shouting isn't that stealthy..... Also I'd like to see proof he can run on water because nothing in the wiki section for abilities is sited.

The Predator has strength, speed, experience, tech, in this battle. I get that Snake is stealthy but I've shown you scans of a Predator taking out armored soldiers without cloaking and with sharpened sticks.

Again, 1000000 apologies for the wait.

Great Debate.

I will still side with the Elder Predator, Colonial Marines and Xenomorphs are way more impressive than most of the canon fodders that Snake has faced.

What cannon fodder?! Are you seriously still angry at me because I'm better than you at being Nick?! Anyway this debate is far from concluded. Either way your vote doesn't count since you've always been biased against Metal Gear. Shoo.

@nickzambuto: Don't worry about him. He seems to be biased on many different universes besides the AVPverse

How am I bias exactly?

@nick_hero22: You are, especially towards video game characters(Mortal Kombat mostly)

@nickzambuto: Also, I'd like to add that if Snake gets caught in his net, it's basically over.

@jwalser3 said:

@nick_hero22: You are, especially towards video game characters(Mortal Kombat mostly)

@nickzambuto: Also, I'd like to add that if Snake gets caught in his net, it's basically over.

Bias as in not being beguiled by mediocre and out of context feats?