CaV: NickZ (Arkham Batman) vs CadenceV2 (Ryu) (VOTING)

Batman

Ryu

Conditions

• In character
• Random encounter
• Arkham (video game series) Batman
• EU Ryu
• Win by knock out or kill

Location

• Both combatants begin on opposite ends of the Eiffel Tower (ground)
• The location is unpopulated.
• Fight is at nightfall.

Longshot View

Interesting.

This is going to be something special!

Okay Nick, show me how its done :P

@nickzambuto: Yeah!

I will make my post soon enough.

Spite thread, fighting an acrobatic guy like Batman ("aka the Dark Knight") in the dark on the Eiffel tower is not going to end well for a one-dimensional battler like Ryu. This ends with Ryu tied up with a bat hook dangling from hundreds of feet above the ground with Batman's battarang poised to cut the cord.

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

This is a challenge a viner (one on one debate), you need to let the debate begin and vote based on who argued better.

I wanted to ask if you mind me lifting your OP setup :P

:P Not an issue for me.

I should do Arkham Joker one of these days! ^-^

@jokergeist said:

Please do.

@cadencev2

Now just let me preface this by saying that I have a lot of respect for Ryu. My Street Fighter experience is limited, but I am very well versed on the character, and I think he's just awesome. He deserves a lot more credit on the battle forums, and hopefully you will be able to show why. Now, that said, I have MORE respect for Batman of the Arkham Asylum games. Rocksteady (and WB Montreal) basically gathered together every single version of Batman, isolated what made that specific version awesome, and then put all these elements together to create Arkham Batman. I mean, there's just no way to describe this guy in one word. He just gets s*** done. He's always in control, he always knows exactly what to do, and he never gives in. No one can stop him, and his skills aren't limited to simple martial arts like his opponent here. Rather, Batman has a plethora of abilities in the Arkham games that he mixes together to overcome any foe, even those normally superior to him.

Martial Arts

We'll start with the most obvious, as this is the base that everything else builds on top of. According to Hugo Strange's psychological profile on Batman, he is "an expert in almost every known form of martial arts". That's compared to comic book Batman's standard 127 (though some JLA guidebooks list Bruce as knowing all of them too). Just like his comic book counterpart, Bruce Wayne spent years conditioning his body into a living weapon, with an encyclopedic knowledge of combat techniques complimented by his almost superhuman ability to adapt to any situation, and shameless brutality, not hesitating to break bones, land on people from several stories up in the air, or even beat people to death and then jumpstart their heart (that's a last resort though).

Cannon fodder or no, singlehandedly taking on nearly two dozen enemies all at once, and winning, isn't an easy thing to do, especially when immediately after you're pitted against the same number of foes again, but simultaneously have to deal with a monster that ripped through a steel cage like tissue paper.

We have to assume that canonically Batman is as good as the player can possibly be, at which point things become... ridiculous. His extremely acrobatic combat style is hard to keep up with, and combined with that brutality I mentioned before, and unmatched knowledge on technique, his opponent(s) are always kept on the defensive. His animations speak for themselves, the things he can do in-game, the stunts he pulls off in combat, it's just absolutely insane.

And for those naysayers who like to pretend that Arkham Batman has never taken on other skilled martial artists, I’ll leave you with this feat for now. Batman beats Ras Al Ghul hand to hand, a man with far more training and experience than Ryu. He does this while fighting off the effects of a hallucinogenic drug, and simultaneously fending off numerous LoA ninja.

Strength

Something that Arkham Batman is often underestimated in is physicals. From what I understand, Ryu is in some awkward stage between peak human and superhuman, right? Well I firmly believe Bruce has what it takes to match him.

Cracks bullet proof observation glass with a single punch, and eventually jumps straight through it. From what I understand, Ryu under the Satsu No Hadou is actually bullet proof - well if this glass is any indication, Bruce can still break his bones even in his most powerful form. Keep in mind, Ryu has only ever let himself fall to the Satsu No Hadou in noncanon stories and what-if missions, and in that case Batman will be doing even more damage to him.

In his angry rookie years, Batman was literally rocketing opponents away with his strikes.

He'll certainly put the hurt on Ryu.

An area in particular that Arkham Batman is often severely underrated in is speed. Contrary to popular belief, he actually is a bullet timer. The canon comic book tie-ins highlight this.

He has multiple instances of bullet timing, and even deflecting fully automatic fire off his gauntlets, and straight up outracing a helicopter minigun.

Now I could go on about Batman's impressive durability, or his insane stamina, or even his extremely powerful will (spoiler alert: it's ridiculous) but I don't want this post to be entirely about H2H, because like I said in the beginning, Batman has a LOT more options than that.

Stealth

Predominantly, disappearing and oneshotting him with a chokehold from the shadows.

Batman spends most of his time in Arkham Asylum rescuing the captured doctors and guards. If I can once again reference Hugo Strange's profile on Batman, they specifically note him as highly trained in "stealth and espionage tactics", and refer to him as a master of disguise and expert escape artist. And it shows. What makes Batman's stealth especially impressive is his expert use of the environment, whether it be to gain a vantage point, or directly assist in his takedowns (such as knocking down walls onto his enemies) he is always strategizing and making the most of his surroundings.

If I had to use one word to describe Arkham Batman's sneaking skills, it'd be "tactical", displayed here when he analyzes the situation, considers his options, and comes to the conclusion that saving several hostages from multiple armed guards is going to be "easy". He proves it, and again makes perfect use of everything in his environment.

After gauging Ryu's abilities, if the martial artist proves too strong, Batman can easily disappear and go from there.

I especially like the Bane instance. That's really quick thinking in a stressful situation. Point is, Batman's vanishing skill is insane, and I don't think Ryu has a counter for it.

Gadgets

The final makeup to Batman's combat style is his plethora of tools and gadgets. All are multipurpose, but Batman seems to find some use for all of them in direct combat. It's at this point that he gets a LOT of options for how to deal with Ryu. Now that I think about it though, I don't want to overwhelm you, and a lot of his gadgets can be used as counters to your points, so I think I'll hold off on the utility belt for now :)

This is fun. Hurry up and make your move so I can reply ^.^

@nickzambuto: Impressive opener, man. I actually learnt a lot considering I thought I was an expert. Luckily I don't have to watch the video's as I've seen all of them many times. Bonus for me :)

@nickzambuto: Hot damn. Sick opener, dude!

@nickzambuto: Compelling opener indeed.

@nickzambuto: Arkham Batman has comics now? Wow.

OK, lets get this show on the role. I read your post and Batman would make a great Street Fighter in the Udon Comics. Ryu however I think is the better due to some reasons.

Skill

Batman has mastered 127 forms of MAs, or Batman has mastered all forms of MAs (Call BS on that btw, Golden Age Batman was the only stated one to be in that category) which may make Batman skilled, but does it really? I mean the guy who mastered supposedly all these fight forms does not show it too well against foes who are nowhere near that list of MA mastery. He beats these foes, sure, but gets clocked around alot in the process, fact.

Ryu is the Master of one form, and unlike Batman who remains peak human to his suppose "Mastery" of MAs, Ryu mastery of his art actually grants him super human powers and Chi Manipulation.

Peak Human Batman suppose mastery of all MAs < Ryu mastery of one MA to a level it grants him super powers.

Gee whiz, which one really sounds like the master here :)

Anyway way, Ryu is also the two timing Champion of Street Fighter contests against the best Super Human warriors the world has to offer. That says alot as well.

He effortlessly won the first Street fighter Competition when he was still a rookie.

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He beaten Sagat in a quick fight with 2 moves used. Sagat who was the unbeatable Champion that never lost a match against multiple world wide fighting championships.

This is the still learning Ryu to. Ryu later receives much more training, learns more to his abilities, and has the Dark Hadou coursing in his veins for possible YOLO amp in all stats. Then Ryu went ahead and beaten all his foes in the second tournament with ease again. Legit foes like Rufus in the Pre Trial Eliminations.

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In this battle he blocks all of Rufus superman blur punches and Hurricane kicks him 100s of feet into Zangief! Then Ryu fought E Honda in round one.

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E Honda is no joke either, he is super human and has moves that defy physics. Easy win for Ryu. Next was Fei Long.

Here Ryu beats Fei Long with ease in the second round. Fei Long who has tons of superhuman feats and skill showings.

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Fei Long vs Tirades with weapons. Easy win for him.

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Fei Long vs more well armed Triads and their Street Fighter leader.

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Fei Long here fights 5 Strret Fighters at the same time to get a spot in the Tournament! he makes it past Eliminations and then the first round as well.

Fei Long is a exceptional fighter with many feats backing it. But Ryu takes him down with utter ease. I will not spoil Ryu's Semi Finals just yet.

All this is proof to Ryu Skill. Batman is skilled? Sure, against un establish Arkham characters and featless thugs. Ryu faces the best of the whole world, filled with super human fighters with special powers, and wins.

Stats

As I said earlier, Ryu has some great super human stats thanks to his mastery of his Martial Arts.

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Examples include being unfazed from the explosion shockwaves of this C4 packed building. Withstanding straight fire from Dhalsim Yoga Flame. As well 2 feats in this scan of being blown through a solid stone wall and blocking a kick so strong that the force breaks the stone road under Ryu's feat.

A good showing of Durability alone to punches can be found in his fight vs Balrog.

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This is Balrog, his punches are so powerful, they level Vans in one hit as well blow out Punching Bags filled with Cinderblocks!

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Yet Ryu is fully able to tank these hits from this murdering fighter over and over in the face. His durability is high enough to tank head shots from Batman.

His own attack power depends. He holds back to not kill as per his philosophy, however he can do incredible damage when he gets upset and starts going Dark Ryu.

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These are Ryu attacks and punches with nop restraint, if Batman begins to tank Ryu normal hits, then Ryu will amp up his attacks with Chi to deal this kind of damage.

Speed wise many Street Fighters are Bullet dodgers. Cammy has dodge Bullets many times. gen has too. So has Chun Li. Ryu has never dodged bullets in the comics, mainly he has never been shot at by bullets, but speed wise not only keeps up with these Bullet timing people, but counters them and beats them.

In no way do I think Batman is that much faster if at all. I do know if Ryu goes Dark on Batman, he would speed blitz Bats sensless however.

Now your holding of on your toys for feats, and I am holding off on my Special Moves for feats.

I think so far in raw skill and stats, Ryu takes this because he is super human and beaten the worlds best fighters who have many establish feats time and again with little effort. Anything else to add Ryu?

@cadencev2: Not to interrupt your debate, but modern Batman does have multiple official sources citing that he's either "mastered" or "perfected"every fighting discipline known to man. I have them if you want to look at them later mate.

Actually PM them to me. I only have the sources from Pre 52 and Year One Batman.

Sure mate.

@cadencev2

Batman has mastered 127 forms of MAs, or Batman has mastered all forms of MAs (Call BS on that btw, Golden Age Batman was the only stated one to be in that category)

The way you word that makes it sound like there's a universal law stating that Golden Age Batman is the only version of Batman who's allowed to know all martial arts. We all need to stop thinking of Arkham Batman as comic book Batman; they are two different continuities, with two very different histories. And in the Arkham lore, Bruce Wayne has mastered, quote, "nearly every form of martial arts." You can't really call BS on that, it's just a fact of the series.

which may make Batman skilled, but does it really? I mean the guy who mastered supposedly all these fight forms does not show it too well against foes who are nowhere near that list of MA mastery. He beats these foes, sure, but gets clocked around alot in the process, fact.

Now that just sounds like ignorance of the series to me. Deathstroke, Shiva, and Copperhead have all been listed as being masters of multiple combat techniques. What about Ra's al Ghul, who's training has stretched across a millennia and is substantiated by his raising of an entire assassin army? Ryu might have been trained to perfection by Gouken, but Bane was trained to perfection by himself. Just the fact that he managed to survive being born and raised in the most dangerous prison on the planet is a testament to his instincts and adaptive mind, but self-teaching himself into one of the world's foremost fighters shows a level of natural ability and understanding that I do not think Ryu can match.

But what about Batman's training? There's a large physical gap between the tactician and and detective. Bane has him massively outclassed in strength and agility even without venom, but with it, how can Bruce possibly hope to compete? It's because not only does the Batman's natural instinct surpass that of Bane's, but he has the training to compliment them.

Batman is simply THAT much more skilled than Bane, which is saying a lot considering Bane displayed very impressive technique during the "assassins introduction" cutscene of Arkham Origins, singlehandedly defeating a group of men his physical equal through pure fighting skill, not to mention the fact that he trained his own private army that is said to rival the League of Assassins.

Ryu is a skilled martial artist, but lacks the versatility employed by Batman's more dangerous foes. I mean, Ryu was trained in hand to hand combat - Slade Wilson was trained in swordplay, stick fighting, heavy weapons, stealth, guerrilla tactics, AND hand to hand combat, and utilized each and every one of those skills against Batman, but was still outmatched at every turn.

That's everything right there. Stealth, skill, speed, strength. At 1:10 Batman puts his hands straight through the wooden floorboards and drags a thug straight into the proverbial hell, and when his buddy starts shooting down there, Batman is already gone (I really have no idea how Bruce could have gotten from underneath the floors, to behind the thug in the span of three seconds. Just another crazy speed/vanishing feat I guess).

Like I said, Deathstroke uses everything against Batman, but the detective adapts and overcomes everything thrown at him. Slade loses his staff, his sword gets snapped in half, and his gun is expertly disarmed. And keep in mind the vast physical difference between these two; Slade socks Batman so hard against the containers that the above container flies off. Those things can weigh from 2-4 tons, and Slade is doing a lot more than just lifting them. He actually hit Batman hard enough that the energy from the blow, transferred into the lower container, which then transferred to the top container to blow it off. That makes Arkham Deathstroke VASTLY superior to his comic book counterpart, yet not only is Arkham Batman totally ignoring his best hits,

he actually defeats him entirely!

Compared to Deathstroke's incredibly acrobatic style, Ryu's techniques are a lot slower, a lot more stiff. He's not as fluent as Batman is, and that gives the detective the advantage.

Anyway my point is, most of Batman's opponents are stated to be experts in multiple styles, just as he is.

Anyway way, Ryu is also the two timing Champion of Street Fighter contests against the best Super Human warriors the world has to offer. That says alot as well.

He effortlessly won the first Street fighter Competition when he was still a rookie.

He beaten Sagat in a quick fight with 2 moves used. Sagat who was the unbeatable Champion that never lost a match against multiple world wide fighting championships.

Massive exaggeration. Not only did Ryu struggle to reach the finals - but Sagat kicked his ass once he got there. Ryu didn't even win, Sagat thought the fight was over and let his guard down to help Ryu up, and a desperate Ryu suckerpunched him with the Satsui No Hado. After that fight, Ryu swore never to give into the darkness ever again, so Dark Ryu isn't a viable strategy in-character.

In this battle he blocks all of Rufus superman blur punches and Hurricane kicks him 100s of feet into Zangief! Then Ryu fought E Honda in round one.

Isn't Rufus sort of a joke character? Anyway you might be exaggerating there; Rufus threw out one move that Ryu dodged and then he got kicked out of the ring and it was over. Kinda reminds me of Batman's fight with the hardened and renowned mercenary, Electrocutioner.

I use the term "fight" loosely.

E Honda is no joke either, he is super human and has moves that defy physics. Easy win for Ryu. Next was Fei Long.

Here Ryu beats Fei Long with ease in the second round. Fei Long who has tons of superhuman feats and skill showings.

Seems like everything for Ryu is "easily" and "with ease". I could say that Batman beat all his enemies easily too. I mean, he's always straight up casual about things, he's never left panting or with any serious injury, and not to mention the fact that even after fighting a very skilled or powerful enemy, he still has enough energy to fight progressively tougher enemies for the entire night. The only instance I can think of where Batman seemed to visibly struggle was against Bane in Arkham Origins.

Anyway, Ryu was complimenting E Honda and Fei Long's strength, so it doesn't seem like he won as casually as you're implying. And even then, E Honda just seems like a slower and less smart Bane, and Fei Long only has cannon fodder feats to show his skill.

Those are some good durability feats. Batman has a few feats against explosions, but what's more important in this scenario is blunt force. Now, I don't know how strong Ryu is, but I doubt he'll have an easy time keeping Batman down. Not only is the dark knight's raw durability nothing short of incredible, but his will power and endurance add a whole different dimension to actually defeating him.

Ryu was straight up shocked at how much Balrog's punches hurt him, but by feats, I'd say Balrog isn't even as strong as Bane.

The same Bane who brutalized Batman but simply could not make him stay down.

TITAN Bane is an entirely different bad boy! Regular TITAN thugs tear through steel like tissue paper as I showed in my first post, and Bane is a lot stronger than them. Still, Batman tanks his attacks.

I doubt Ryu is as strong as someone hopped up on TITAN, so defeating Batman is going to provide major difficulties for him. By comparison, the dark knight has the strength to really put the hurt on Ryu.

If he can KO Killer Croc so easily, the same Killer Croc who barely even noticed a high-powered sniper round hitting him in the back of the head, then he can destroy Ryu.

I'm not sure if it's just on my end, but in case some of those clips don't work, just click the youtube link and watch them there.

They work for me.

I will reply when I can.

They are working fine on my end.

Fantastic then, thanks.

@nickzambuto:

The way you word that makes it sound like there's a universal law stating that Golden Age Batman is the only version of Batman who's allowed to know all martial arts. We all need to stop thinking of Arkham Batman as comic book Batman; they are two different continuities, with two very different histories. And in the Arkham lore, Bruce Wayne has mastered, quote, "nearly every form of martial arts." You can't really call BS on that, it's just a fact of the series.

Here is the problem. Arkham Batman is not Comic Book Batman at all, so I like some proof of what "nearly every form of martial arts." means exactly? Has he merely studied the majority, but mastered a few? How many is nearly all of them? What about undiscovered or unknown MAs?

Its way to vague.

I know Ryu has indeed mastered a made up form of MAs that grants you super powers and seems to counter just about every other form of MA out there.

Now that just sounds like ignorance of the series to me. Deathstroke, Shiva, and Copperhead have all been listed as being masters of multiple combat techniques. What about Ra's al Ghul, who's training has stretched across a millennia and is substantiated by his raising of an entire assassin army? Ryu might have been trained to perfection by Gouken, but Bane was trained to perfection by himself. Just the fact that he managed to survive being born and raised in the most dangerous prison on the planet is a testament to his instincts and adaptive mind, but self-teaching himself into one of the world's foremost fighters shows a level of natural ability and understanding that I do not think Ryu can match.

All you said was Comic Book sourcing. Again this is Arkham Universe, what exactly has Shiva been stated or shown to be considered anywhere near Comic Book Shiva? Deathstroke? Copper Head?

What I do know is Batman handles them all pretty easy with inferior stats and peak human stats. I know he fights no name fodder thugs more than anything in the games.

But what about Batman's training? There's a large physical gap between the tactician and and detective. Bane has him massively outclassed in strength and agility even without venom, but with it, how can Bruce possibly hope to compete? It's because not only does the Batman's natural instinct surpass that of Bane's, but he has the training to compliment them.

Batman is simply THAT much more skilled than Bane, which is saying a lot considering Bane displayed very impressive technique during the "assassins introduction" cutscene of Arkham Origins, singlehandedly defeating a group of men his physical equal through pure fighting skill, not to mention the fact that he trained his own private army that is said to rival the League of Assassins.

This is nothing Chun Li, Cammy, Charlie, or Guile has done.

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Charlie with his bare hands takes out a enemy camp in quick fashion. Saving a rookie Guile and then training Guile to be a martial artist.

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Charlie and Guile fight each other from midday to early night in a non stop sparring match before calling it a tie.

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Charlie one shots Guile, then takes Chun Li's best attack, and beat her in two moves after it.

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Here Cammy with no gear takes out 30 heavily arm terroist. they even Dog pile her only to be thrown aside by her skill and strength.

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Many good Cammy feats here. She swing up and over through the glass windows of a bullet train. Dodges automatic gunfire shot feet away from her with her Spinning Corkscrew move. Kicks a full grown man through the metal roof of a Bullet Train. Leaps over 40 feet to the next train. Blitzes a fellow trained assassin (yes they know each other) before she could put up a defense.

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Cammy takes on armed guards, dodging more gunfire from up close in a small hallway, and kills them all.

All inferior to Ryu by a good margin.

Ryu is a skilled martial artist, but lacks the versatility employed by Batman's more dangerous foes. I mean, Ryu was trained in hand to hand combat - Slade Wilson was trained in swordplay, stick fighting, heavy weapons, stealth, guerrilla tactics, AND hand to hand combat, and utilized each and every one of those skills against Batman, but was still outmatched at every turn.

Like I said, Deathstroke uses everything against Batman, but the detective adapts and overcomes everything thrown at him. Slade loses his staff, his sword gets snapped in half, and his gun is expertly disarmed. And keep in mind the vast physical difference between these two; Slade socks Batman so hard against the containers that the above container flies off. Those things can weigh from 2-4 tons, and Slade is doing a lot more than just lifting them. He actually hit Batman hard enough that the energy from the blow, transferred into the lower container, which then transferred to the top container to blow it off. That makes Arkham Deathstroke VASTLY superior to his comic book counterpart, yet not only is Arkham Batman totally ignoring his best hits,

Deathsrtoke seems cool, but how skilled was this version? Seriously, Comic Book Deathstroke beats Batman every fight. The more outrageous in feats Comic Batman. Yet Arkham Deathstroke loses to a Batman who ran a gauntlet regardless of his suppose skill and stats vs a tired Batman?

Something does not add up here, unless Arkham Deathstroke is vastly inferior to Comic Deathstroke.

That's everything right there. Stealth, skill, speed, strength. At 1:10 Batman puts his hands straight through the wooden floorboards and drags a thug straight into the proverbial hell, and when his buddy starts shooting down there, Batman is already gone (I really have no idea how Bruce could have gotten from underneath the floors, to behind the thug in the span of three seconds. Just another crazy speed/vanishing feat I guess).

Batman pulls some cool feats here as well I guess, but what good is that against Ryu who has superior skill and stats? Heck, I doubt Batman can sneak up on Ryu who has Chi Sensing powers.

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Compared to Deathstroke's incredibly acrobatic style, Ryu's techniques are a lot slower, a lot more stiff. He's not as fluent as Batman is, and that gives the detective the advantage.

Anyway my point is, most of Batman's opponents are stated to be experts in multiple styles, just as he is.

Ryu is not as fluent? Why? Because he is on paper and not animated? Animated Ryu is pretty fluid if you want to go that route.

Pretty fluid by Animation here.

Fluid here too.

Wow, very fluid here.

So why is Udon comics not Fluid? Is it the fact he is on paper?

Massive exaggeration. Not only did Ryu struggle to reach the finals - but Sagat kicked his ass once he got there. Ryu didn't even win, Sagat thought the fight was over and let his guard down to help Ryu up, and a desperate Ryu suckerpunched him with the Satsui No Hado. After that fight, Ryu swore never to give into the darkness ever again, so Dark Ryu isn't a viable strategy in-character.

Ummm... no. Your so full of crap right now.

I am using Street Fighter Udon Comics Ryu. Not the Game canon man. In the Udon comics he goes Dark Ryu a few times man.

Here he goes Dark on Cody when losing this fight.

Goes Dark on ken when he was upset and frustrated.

Goes Dark on Akuma.

You clearly have no clue what your talking about when it comes to the Udon Comics my friend. Dark Ryu is a major possibility if push came to shove like Cody did to Ryu.

Isn't Rufus sort of a joke character? Anyway you might be exaggerating there; Rufus threw out one move that Ryu dodged and then he got kicked out of the ring and it was over. Kinda reminds me of Batman's fight with the hardened and renowned mercenary, Electrocutioner.

I use the term "fight" loosely.

Ruffus is a joke fighter from what I seen in the Comics, but still more superhuman in stats and powers than most of your Arkham villains.

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Rufus with all that girth bounces off attacks of physical and energy, he can ride a motorcycle high in the sky and land with ease, he even takes Vipers best attack and lives afterword. He is superhuman in every way and he threw a blur speed rapid punch that Ryu blocked with ease.

Show me Batman reacting to a attack of that speed.

Seems like everything for Ryu is "easily" and "with ease". I could say that Batman beat all his enemies easily too. I mean, he's always straight up casual about things, he's never left panting or with any serious injury, and not to mention the fact that even after fighting a very skilled or powerful enemy, he still has enough energy to fight progressively tougher enemies for the entire night. The only instance I can think of where Batman seemed to visibly struggle was against Bane in Arkham Origins.

Anyway, Ryu was complimenting E Honda and Fei Long's strength, so it doesn't seem like he won as casually as you're implying. And even then, E Honda just seems like a slower and less smart Bane, and Fei Long only has cannon fodder feats to show his skill.

So Ryu being a good sport somehow suggest E Honda and Fei Long were on his level? So if batman told Scarecrow he put up a good fight, that would mean Scarecrow > Deathstroke now?

Those are some good durability feats. Batman has a few feats against explosions, but what's more important in this scenario is blunt force. Now, I don't know how strong Ryu is, but I doubt he'll have an easy time keeping Batman down. Not only is the dark knight's raw durability nothing short of incredible, but his will power and endurance add a whole different dimension to actually defeating him.

Ryu strength is stone shattering with every blow, and he can increase those stats with Chi as well Dark Ryu form.

Ryu was straight up shocked at how much Balrog's punches hurt him, but by feats, I'd say Balrog isn't even as strong as Bane.

The same Bane who brutalized Batman but simply could not make him stay down.

TITAN Bane is an entirely different bad boy! Regular TITAN thugs tear through steel like tissue paper as I showed in my first post, and Bane is a lot stronger than them. Still, Batman tanks his attacks.

Batman by Movie feats tanked nothing, he simply countered Ban every move. The only attacks he tanked were Gameplay Mechanics. That is totally silly to use in a debate and you know that. If I were to play easy, then Batman could tank attacks all day like Superman, on hard he tanks less. C'mon.

Balrog by feats is as strong as Bane to me. Punching out a Punch Bag filled with Cinder Blocks is no different than smashing through a brick Wall to me. Ryu by canon on panel feats, tanks face shots from Balrog and was more than able to fight on.

I doubt Ryu is as strong as someone hopped up on TITAN, so defeating Batman is going to provide major difficulties for him. By comparison, the dark knight has the strength to really put the hurt on Ryu.

Show me Batman hitting with the force of Akuma and we will talk.

Akuma's Hadoukens are powerful enough to explode buildings.

Ryu meanwhile tanked one of these attack to the chest after being pummeled by Akuma before it! Still Fighting!

If he can KO Killer Croc so easily, the same Killer Croc who barely even noticed a high-powered sniper round hitting him in the back of the head, then he can destroy Ryu.

Please, Akumas Hadouken >>>> Batman Fist. This is if Ryu lets Batman hit him, Ryu after training for the second Street Fighter Tournament was vastly more skilled than his fights prior to the Tournament.

I still think Ryu wins base on feats and stats alone still. The best part is I have yet to reveal Ryu Special Moves or the fact he can go Dark Ryu.

@cadencev2

Here is the problem. Arkham Batman is not Comic Book Batman at all, so I like some proof of what "nearly every form of martial arts." means exactly? Has he merely studied the majority, but mastered a few? How many is nearly all of them? What about undiscovered or unknown MAs?

It's a pretty simple statement. Let me be clear, this is an exact quote from Hugo Strange's psychological analysis of Bruce Wayne. Quote, Batman is an "Expert in almost every known form of martial arts." It's as simple as that, there's no room for arguing here. Now while the number of styles a character knows isn't an exact indication of superiority, you can't deny, it at least gives Batman an advantage in technique and knowledge. He was even able to put himself into a meditative trance to make a few hours worth of oxygen last several days in Harley's Revenge. That shows knowledge.

All you said was Comic Book sourcing.

No, it's not. Every single piece of information I posted comes straight from in-game profiles and statements. That's why I prefaced my entire argument with "We all need to stop thinking of Arkham Batman as comic book Batman". It's not like I even need to source the comics, Arkham antagonists have plenty of feats if you look hard enough.

what exactly has Shiva been stated or shown to be considered anywhere near Comic Book Shiva?

Shiva is a martial arts grandmaster in Arkham Origins and takes on the hardest jobs in the world merely to test her own skill. From the GCPD database:

"Interpol: Numerous high-profile cold case assassinations of the last 3 years have been added to this file. See attached.
All cold cases in this category have a common factor - extremely limited available forensic evidence. In each case a single point of physical contact was made with the victim. In each case this single contact resulted in the immediate death of the victim."

She still failed to defeat Batman, even with the help of multiple ninja backing her up.

This is nothing Chun Li, Cammy, Charlie, or Guile has done.

I'm sensing a bit of a double standard here. You denounce all of Batman's feats as being strictly against canon fodder (spoiler: they're not) yet most of the scans you posted are against - who would have guessed - canon fodder!

I'm not going to say Charlie's feats aren't impressive, but whatever the amount, canon fodder just isn't anything special compared to Arkham Batman. He eats punks like that for breakfast.

And just to cement my point about canon fodder being basically non-applicable feats against Arkham Batman, even ninja, the most elite of all canon fodder, pose no danger to a half-naked Bruce Wayne.

Even Hugo Strange's TIGER Guard were no match for him, despite being trained, conditioned, and literally created for the sole purpose of overcoming the dark knight.

Notice that despite having similar physicals to Batman, none of the guards can lay a finger on him.

Deathsrtoke seems cool, but how skilled was this version? Seriously, Comic Book Deathstroke beats Batman every fight. The more outrageous in feats Comic Batman. Yet Arkham Deathstroke loses to a Batman who ran a gauntlet regardless of his suppose skill and stats vs a tired Batman?

Something does not add up here, unless Arkham Deathstroke is vastly inferior to Comic Deathstroke.

OR the opposite, maybe Arkham Batman is vastly superior to comic Batman :D

Batman pulls some cool feats here as well I guess, but what good is that against Ryu who has superior skill and stats?

You say that like it's a fact. In my opinion, Arkham Batman is both a much better fighter than Ryu, and a good bit tougher to boot. Not only was his training more extensive and wide-reaching, but his combat style is a lot more versatile than Ryu's. One minute Ryu is fending off a martial arts blitz, then suddenly Batman goes into "beatdown" mode and assaults Ryu with a barrage of body armor-breaking precision strikes, and while the street fighter is disoriented, Bruce quickfires an electrical charge that oneshots superhumans and follows up by coating his fist with explosive gel for the finisher.

If you trust powerscaling, TITAN Joker had to be like, a 10 tonner. No way is Ryu making it out of that, his only chance is if Batman never attempts the tactic at all. Worst case scenario, if Ryu does win and Bruce gets beat down, the fight won't end without Batman trying this. It's basically an auto-win.

Heck, I doubt Batman can sneak up on Ryu who has Chi Sensing powers.

Wow, thank goodness Batman doesn't power himself with chi, otherwise he'd be in trouble!

Ummm... no. Your so full of crap right now.

I am using Street Fighter Udon Comics Ryu. Not the Game canon man. In the Udon comics he goes Dark Ryu a few times man.

He did it three times, one of which being against his main rival, the other in a life or death situation, and the final was against freaking Akuma. That's three instances compared to the dozens of fights he's had throughout the comic book run. It still doesn't seem like a reliable tactic to me.

He is superhuman in every way and he threw a blur speed rapid punch that Ryu blocked with ease.

Show me Batman reacting to a attack of that speed.

I really think you're overhyping that one move he used against Ryu. Check out Batman's fight with Deathstroke again; it's a nice reflex feat for Ryu, but the combat speed Bruce displays in that one fight alone overshadows it, trading and countering attacks at high speeds, reacting on the fly. And that's against a superhuman, known for speed. Common thugs and other fighters literally move in slow motion to Batman's perception.

Ryu strength is stone shattering with every blow, and he can increase those stats with Chi as well Dark Ryu form.

Batman KOd Killer Croc, punches through body armor, and destroyed a league of metal androids with his bare hands.

He doesn't just disable them. They literally explode into pieces from his strikes.

Batman's strength feats definitely seem superior to Ryu's.

Batman by Movie feats tanked nothing, he simply countered Ban every move. The only attacks he tanked were Gameplay Mechanics. That is totally silly to use in a debate and you know that. If I were to play easy, then Batman could tank attacks all day like Superman, on hard he tanks less. C'mon.

???????????? Every thing I've posted relating to Bane was from unavoidable cutscenes. Play the game.

Balrog by feats is as strong as Bane to me. Punching out a Punch Bag filled with Cinder Blocks is no different than smashing through a brick Wall to me. Ryu by canon on panel feats, tanks face shots from Balrog and was more than able to fight on.

Those cinder block shattering hits from Balrog rocked Ryu's world. Batman's bullet-proof glass shattering hits probably will too. Batman's strength>Ryu's durability. By comparison, Ryu's strength<Batman's durability, especially since it's backed up with body armor.

Batman has crazy pain tolerance and will power. I can't even express into words how much that must have hurt; "sting" doesn't even begin to describe it. But that's only the midpoint of the game. By the end of Arkham Asylum, Batman's body is absolutely ruined, and he's stated to have multiple broken bones. Once the asylum is secured, he hops in the batmobile and goes on to continue his nightly patrol.

Batman was even able to resist the TITAN transformation, through sheer will power (after outracing the syringe Joker fired from a gun, very impressive speed)

Akuma's Hadoukens are powerful enough to explode buildings.

Where is Akuma blowing up a building in that scan?

@nickzambuto:

It's a pretty simple statement. Let me be clear, this is an exact quote from Hugo Strange's psychological analysis of Bruce Wayne. Quote, Batman is an "Expert in almost every known form of martial arts." It's as simple as that, there's no room for arguing here. Now while the number of styles a character knows isn't an exact indication of superiority, you can't deny, it at least gives Batman an advantage in technique and knowledge. He was even able to put himself into a meditative trance to make a few hours worth of oxygen last several days in Harley's Revenge. That shows knowledge.

You can say his knoweldge is superior to Ryu, but Ryu MAs he has learned has beaten every other major martial art wielded by Super Humans. So whos is really superior here? A Peak Human with Knowledge of multiple skills, or the guy who is so skilled with a perfected MA that beaten every other used by Super Humans?

Has Batman ever fought anyone as skilled with Super Human Stats? Nope.

No, it's not. Every single piece of information I posted comes straight from in-game profiles and statements. That's why I prefaced my entire argument with "We all need to stop thinking of Arkham Batman as comic book Batman". It's not like I even need to source the comics, Arkham antagonists have plenty of feats if you look hard enough.

OK then, it sounded like you were quoting comic Batman.

Shiva is a martial arts grandmaster in Arkham Origins and takes on the hardest jobs in the world merely to test her own skill. From the GCPD database:

"Interpol: Numerous high-profile cold case assassinations of the last 3 years have been added to this file. See attached.

All cold cases in this category have a common factor - extremely limited available forensic evidence. In each case a single point of physical contact was made with the victim. In each case this single contact resulted in the immediate death of the victim."

She still failed to defeat Batman, even with the help of multiple ninja backing her up.

Proof she is not that skilled. At Least Sagat proved his skill by beating Ryu once and pushed Ryu into being Dark Ryu twice to win. He also beaten accomplished Chun Li and her father together. He killed Hibiki. Sagat has feats, so when Ryu beats him twice, it means something.

Shiva not so much. She has stated info, which means crap as Sagat also had stated Info has the worlds best fighter, but he proves it.

I'm sensing a bit of a double standard here. You denounce all of Batman's feats as being strictly against canon fodder (spoiler: they're not) yet most of the scans you posted are against - who would have guessed - canon fodder!

I'm not going to say Charlie's feats aren't impressive, but whatever the amount, canon fodder just isn't anything special compared to Arkham Batman. He eats punks like that for breakfast.

And just to cement my point about canon fodder being basically non-applicable feats against Arkham Batman, even ninja, the most elite of all canon fodder, pose no danger to a half-naked Bruce Wayne.

Even Hugo Strange's TIGER Guard were no match for him, despite being trained, conditioned, and literally created for the sole purpose of overcoming the dark knight.

Notice that despite having similar physicals to Batman, none of the guards can lay a finger on him.

You miss the point totally.

What I meant is these characters are as impressive as your fodder beating Arkham characters, and they lose to Ryu. You made a point of your fodder beating Villains are tough for their Fodder beating.

That was the point. Nothing to do with Batman. Also...

• Charlie beaten Chun Li and Guile together, then beat Bison.
• Cammy beaten Balrog, Decrape, Juli and Juni, Blanka, and nearly beaten a near blood lusted Chun Li twice.
• Chun Li beaten Fei Long, Cammy twice, Red Viper, and gave both Sagat and Charlie hell.

See how they have feats against people with feats? They are establish and skilled, but the Arkham cast? Not so much.

OR the opposite, maybe Arkham Batman is vastly superior to comic Batman :D

... Batman fans everywhere are PMing you angry post :D That be kinda neat though if it could be true......

You say that like it's a fact. In my opinion, Arkham Batman is both a much better fighter than Ryu, and a good bit tougher to boot. Not only was his training more extensive and wide-reaching, but his combat style is a lot more versatile than Ryu's. One minute Ryu is fending off a martial arts blitz, then suddenly Batman goes into "beatdown" mode and assaults Ryu with a barrage of body armor-breaking precision strikes, and while the street fighter is disoriented, Bruce quickfires an electrical charge that oneshots superhumans and follows up by coating his fist with explosive gel for the finisher.

If you trust powerscaling, TITAN Joker had to be like, a 10 tonner. No way is Ryu making it out of that, his only chance is if Batman never attempts the tactic at all. Worst case scenario, if Ryu does win and Bruce gets beat down, the fight won't end without Batman trying this. It's basically an auto-win.

Thats the problem. Right here. "If you trust powerscaling," this is where things get blurry. Game Mechanics or simply not the same level, too many possibilities to fall in this category.

Either way Ryu > Titan Joker every day. Ryu has a host of sdpecial Moves to counter Batman and each move is a perfect Counter.

Shoryuken is the favor KO attack of Ryu. Its a Chi focused punch that tends to KO 90% of the super human street fighters he hits with it. He uses in combos or as a counter attack.

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1) KOed Balrog who tanked every hit from Ryu before it with no sign of injury.

2) Dark Ryucan use it to slice like a razor blade with its power.

3) Shoryuken is used to allow Ryu to fly against the current of a water fall for 100s of feet!

He also has the favored Tatsumaki Sempukyaku, or Hurrican Kick, that he likes to use as a nearly unblockable attack.

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1) This Ki powered kick is a 360 degree attack that has broken through Akuma's blocking.

2) Uses it again on a all out Akuma for damage.

3) Sends a 408 pound Rufus flying hundreds of feet into a 398 pound Zangief, which then sends them both flying further still!

4) Taken out five grown men dog piling Ryu, sending them flying.

Then we have the famous Hadouken.

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This move is Ryu focusing his Ki into a powerful blast.

1) He has blown the side of a building out with it.

2) Blast it up stream of a rushing river,.

3-4) It takes out huge chunks of stone with each blast.

However this move is not his only version of it. He has a overcharge form of it as well. The Shinku Hadoken. The regular Hadoken is powerful, but the Tiger Strike used by Sagat overpowers it easily.

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As we see in both fights with Sagat here. This Shinku Hodoken however is a different beast.

The Shinku Hadoken is a Super Beam version that completly overpowers the Tiger Strike, and KO's Super Human fighters like Sagat in one shot.

Now with all this out of the way, Batman has to worry about Special Moves that can be pulled of in a split second or mid combo, moves that Batman cannot at all hope to block much less survive against.

Wow, thank goodness Batman doesn't power himself with chi, otherwise he'd be in trouble!

LOL right. Is batman Un dead now?

Unless Batman is legally dead, he has Chi. Chi that Ryu can sense and feel thanks to his Superior Martial Art.

Ummm... no. Your so full of crap right now.

I am using Street Fighter Udon Comics Ryu. Not the Game canon man. In the Udon comics he goes Dark Ryu a few times man.

He did it three times, one of which being against his main rival, the other in a life or death situation, and the final was against freaking Akuma. That's three instances compared to the dozens of fights he's had throughout the comic book run. It still doesn't seem like a reliable tactic to me.

He went dark against his Best Friend Ken.

Went Dark when he felt he was going to lose to Sagat who he just met at the time. he did it becuase he was LOSING!

Went Dark when he felt Cody was going to win, Cody who was going to spare his life, because he was LOSING!

Dark against Dhalsim during training.

Dark vs Akuma.

Dark vs Akuma Again even though he told himself he would not give in to the Dark Hadou!

He has gone Dark every time his limits are pushed and he is about to lose. That is the point of the dark Hadou, to win at all costs!

Should Batman push Ryu, he will go Dark. It is very much in character.

I really think you're overhyping that one move he used against Ryu. Check out Batman's fight with Deathstroke again; it's a nice reflex feat for Ryu, but the combat speed Bruce displays in that one fight alone overshadows it, trading and countering attacks at high speeds, reacting on the fly. And that's against a superhuman, known for speed. Common thugs and other fighters literally move in slow motion to Batman's perception.

I see nothing so fast about Batman he is a blur. Street fighters are all Superhuman with special moves. Ryu blocked on panel a Move that is Super Speed.

Even the Game reflects Rufus Speed.

In the Comics he is as fast!

I overhype nothing . Its all solid proof.

Batman KOd Killer Croc, punches through body armor, and destroyed a league of metal androids with his bare hands.

He doesn't just disable them. They literally explode into pieces from his strikes.

Batman's strength feats definitely seem superior to Ryu's.

Right.

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Ryu when he goes dark punches the ground, leaves Craters.

Batman still inferior to normal Ryu. Show me Batman doing anything along the lines of The Hurrican Kick, Hadoken, or Shoryuken. Show me something.

???????????? Every thing I've posted relating to Bane was from unavoidable cutscenes. Play the game.

I watched the crap you posted. Bane only grabs batman, thats it. He then gets hit by the Batmobile before he can do anything to Batman.

Those cinder block shattering hits from Balrog rocked Ryu's world. Batman's bullet-proof glass shattering hits probably will too. Batman's strength>Ryu's durability. By comparison, Ryu's strength<Batman's durability, especially since it's backed up with body armor.

It rocked Ryu world, as he took them to the face and still won handily. Batman has never tanked any hit like Balrog. this was also a Younger and less train Ryu, he gotten alot better after training with Dhalsim and the rest of the world for the second Tournament.

Body Armour is not that useful for punches. Getting hit in Kevlar is not that much difference. It is design to stop Bullets, it does not absorb the kinetic impact of said bullets which is why humans get cracked ribs when shot.

Batman has crazy pain tolerance and will power. I can't even express into words how much that must have hurt; "sting" doesn't even begin to describe it. But that's only the midpoint of the game. By the end of Arkham Asylum, Batman's body is absolutely ruined, and he's stated to have multiple broken bones. Once the asylum is secured, he hops in the batmobile and goes on to continue his nightly patrol.

Batman was even able to resist the TITAN transformation, through sheer will power (after outracing the syringe Joker fired from a gun, very impressive speed)

What does resisting a chemical have to do with durability?

Where is Akuma blowing up a building in that scan?

Here let me help you.

Large Building.

Single Hadouken from Akuma destroys Large Building of concrete with ease.

Ryu power and durability >>>>> Batman and his Kevlar Body Armor.

End Thread.

I gotta be honest, none of these feats seem particularly "super human" to me. I mean Ryu's chi manipulation is obviously impressive, but does he even have the strength to harm Batman through his bullet proof body armor without just spamming Shoryukens over and over again? That might be a viable strategy in a fighting game, but Batman is too smart for that, too adaptable, and unfortunately for Ryu, that was his last option. Never mind the speed difference between these two when Batman fights thugs in slow motion and deflects automatic gunfire off his gauntlets. By comparison, Ryu's only speed comes from powerscaling other characters who have dodged bullets like Chun Li, who for all intents and purposes, is supposed to be faster than Ryu anyway! So physically speaking, Ryu isn't a threat to Batman.

And your claim that Ryu wins because his martial art has bested superhumans whereas Batman has never taken on superhumans is completely ludicrous, to say the least. First of all, you got it backwards. Ryu is the one who can't fight superhumans, the only one he's ever met makes it a hobby to toss him around for lulz (Akuma). Meanwhile, Batman tests his skills against fighters and mercenaries who are not only highly accomplished martial artists, but usually have stat advantages against him as well.

Ra's al Ghul, Bane, and Deathstroke are all stated to be superhuman, but unlike Ryu, they have the feats to back it up. Heck even Copperhead was superhuman, with her abnormal physiology allowing for inhuman movements and agility. She wasn't very strong, but made up for it by using talons. And Batman fought her while poisoned by a toxin that killed an average soldier in a couple seconds.

All these disadvantages and yet he was still the victor. THAT is skill. And of course, just like Deathstroke, Copperhead is directly referenced as mastering numerous assassination techniques ranging from strangulation to crushed bones, and is stated as capable of escaping nearly all forms of confinement.

It kinda russles my jimmies how you keep sticking to this ignorant, generalized opinion that Arkham antagonists are featless, even though I've provided numerous references for Deathstroke, Bane, Ra's, Shiva, and now Copperhead. Shiva in particular displayed far more technical knowledge in a single paragraph of the GCPD report (which I posted already, but you ignored D:) than Ryu ever has. Yet she complimented Batman's technique and failed to defeat him. Deathstroke too, is insanely skilled to the point of singlehandedly defeating 100 opponent's in his DLC battle map, not to mention the obvious stat advantage he had against Bruce. A little obscure, but like I said, once you look hard enough, they all have feats.

Killer Croc is a bullet proof 10 tonner; Batman KOd him bare handed. Deathstroke is superhuman and took down a bunch of Government trained dudes; Batman outfought him easy. Copperhead shows some great speed; defeated by a crippled Batman. Deadshot is basically a reality warper, hyper enhanced senses didn't help him detect Batman hiding in the shadows. And then there's Bane, who defeated three men his equal in size casually, who despite their physical ability couldn't lay a hand on him. Notice how he snaps their necks just by squeezing his fingers, that's a very awkward way to kill someone considering he has absolutely 0 leverage. Bane is pushing over 1,000 pounds in just his fingertips, and you think the dark knight is going to struggle with Ryu's strength.

I really don't think Ryu can injure Batman at all with basic strikes. His raw durability is one thing; tanking Bane's best hits both on and off venom, and even getting beaten down by the 10 tonners TITAN Joker and Killer Croc. His suit though, adds an entirely new layer of protection, shielding him from explosions and high powered bullets. And finally the last line of defense, if all else is broken: there's always that indomitable will.

Batman takes enough fear toxin directly into his system to drive 10 men completely insane, but just comes back for more.

In Arkham City, a more-or-less already dead Batman collapsed and actually saw his parents, but rejected them. He literally died, saw Heaven, rejected it and decided to be alive again. Wow.

All things considered, there is no possible way for Ryu to put Batman down. Damage output needs to be accounted for; the only way Ryu can injure Bruce is with his special moves that both A) take time to charge and B) are easily dodgeable. Meanwhile, the dark knight will rock the street fighter's world with every punch. Akuma's Haduken didn't shatter a building like you're hyping it out to be, it just cracked a small platform. Bane could do that bare handed. So if that's Ryu's best durability feat, then there is simply just no way for him to win. Especially when Bruce can enhance his striking power even further with explosive gel or shock gauntlets, the former of which oneshotted TITAN Joker who tanked massive electrocution, and the latter packing enough juice to power elevators and kill Bane before jumpstarting his heart.

The only thing that concerns me is Dark Ryu. But there's context behind each time he actually succumbed.

He went dark against his Best Friend Ken.

His best friend, and main rival.

Went Dark when he felt he was going to lose to Sagat who he just met at the time. he did it becuase he was LOSING!

A rookie Ryu did it by accident without even knowing what was happening. Ever since he learned what it was, he consciously controlled it to never let it happen again.

Went Dark when he felt Cody was going to win, Cody who was going to spare his life, because he was LOSING!

Why would Cody spare his life? Isn't the dude's entire schtick being that he's a serial murderer? Seems like Ryu legitimately succumbed here, but only when he was at his all time lowest point of desperation.

Dark against Dhalsim during training.

He went dark for like, one panel because he saw a vision of Akuma.

Dark vs Akuma.

Dark vs Akuma Again even though he told himself he would not give in to the Dark Hadou!

Ryu does not hold anywhere near the same amount of animosity towards Batman that he does Akuma. This is basically saying Wolverine went feral against Sabretooth, the man who constantly goads and manipulates him into doing so, so obviously Wolverine will go feral against Spider-Man.

Ryu actually giving into the Satso No Hadou is an outlier that only occurs for hype, or story purposes. It is not in character for him to do it, even if he is in danger of losing, he isn't in much actual risk of losing anything important against Batman.

Batman still inferior to normal Ryu. Show me Batman doing anything along the lines of The Hurrican Kick, Hadoken, or Shoryuken. Show me something.

Those special techniques are the only thing Ryu has over Batman. You're saying they make him physically superior though? That's like me saying show me Ryu cracking the Lacey Towers double-homicide case and proving Penguin's innocence in literal seconds, whereas the entire police force was baffled, and if you can't, then Batman is clearly smarter and therefore much more skilled than Ryu.

No, those techniques aren't an indication of Ryu's physical ability.

Batman has never tanked any hit like Balrog.

Now it's getting to the point where it seems like you aren't even reading my posts.

What about Venom Bane, TITAN Bane, or TITAN Joker? Each are definitely a lot stronger than peak human Balrog.

Body Armour is not that useful for punches. Getting hit in Kevlar is not that much difference. It is design to stop Bullets, it does not absorb the kinetic impact of said bullets which is why humans get cracked ribs when shot.

Bruce doesn't wear kevlar. From Arkham Asylum,

Military-grade spun para-aramid fibers are molded into the batsuit chest piece to provide greater protection from attack. Super lightweight nano-engineered polymer plating incorporated into the Batsuit creates a more resilient outer shell, while ultra strong micro plating developed by WayneTech is layered between the regular armor and the undersuit. Additionally, the batsuit is soaked in a top secret prototype formula, developed by Lucius Fox at WayneTech, which massively increases durability without additional weight and retaining full movement and flexibility.

I'm not quite sure what any of that means, but it's clearly superior to kevlar. In addition, if you look at the upgrades menu, the suit is tailor made to absorb both ballistic impacts as well as blunt force, so Ryu's punches aren't getting through.

What does resisting a chemical have to do with durability?

Will power and endurance.

Stealth is still a viable tactic for Bruce to utilize. Ryu senses the chi of a man who wasn't even trying to conceal himself and was actively pumping himself up for a fight - BY increasing his chi (since that's how Street Fighter characters fight). Batman has snuck up on characters with enhanced senses multiple times such as Deadshot (super eyesight) and Killer Croc (enhanced smell).

Not to mention those straight up insane vanishing feats I've already posted. If Ryu loses sight of Batman, then it's all over.

Well, that's my say. Fun debating with you, let's do Snake vs Shadow sometime ;D @cadencev2

I'll wait for the "okay" first, but I'm ready to vote.

@nickzambuto:

I gotta be honest, none of these feats seem particularly "super human" to me. I mean Ryu's chi manipulation is obviously impressive, but does he even have the strength to harm Batman through his bullet proof body armor without just spamming Shoryukens over and over again? That might be a viable strategy in a fighting game, but Batman is too smart for that, too adaptable, and unfortunately for Ryu, that was his last option.

Ryu uses his special moves in combos, not by themselves.

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Here Ryu faces Gen, he chains his attacks together in combos like the Hodouken and the Shoyruken followed by a punch. The fact Ryu matches Gen at all is proof of superior to batman. Why is that? Gen is the master of pressure points and beaten a younger Akuma in a fight.

Gen Feats.

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• Kills men with a single hit, hitting one so hard they bent the metal wall.
• Dodges Gun Fire and then breaks a Gun with a touch.
• Kills another with a single hit.

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• Gen numbs the hand and arm with a single attack against a man who bends Iron girders.
• Then kicks this man of weight and size three times in the air.
• Then kills another man with Pressure Point hits.

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• Catches Ninja stars with one hand.
• Counters assassin of a known clan.
• One shot kills him with a touch.

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This is the level of fighters normal Ryu beats. Not some low level Arkham Villain.

Never mind the speed difference between these two when Batman fights thugs in slow motion and deflects automatic gunfire off his gauntlets. By comparison, Ryu's only speed comes from powerscaling other characters who have dodged bullets like Chun Li, who for all intents and purposes, is supposed to be faster than Ryu anyway! So physically speaking, Ryu isn't a threat to Batman.

Ryu is proven faster than anyone by beating characters like Ken, Fei Long, Sagat (a guy who took on Chun Li, her friend, and father at the same time), and matching Akuma to some degree. Ryu is insane fast and by comparison a match for the top tier street fighters.

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Before the Tourney he was beating multiple street fighters at the same time. He is superior to most in stats and skill.

Gen is super fast, as is Sagat and Fei Long, and yet Ryu beats them all.

And your claim that Ryu wins because his martial art has bested superhumans whereas Batman has never taken on superhumans is completely ludicrous, to say the least. First of all, you got it backwards. Ryu is the one who can't fight superhumans, the only one he's ever met makes it a hobby to toss him around for lulz (Akuma). Meanwhile, Batman tests his skills against fighters and mercenaries who are not only highly accomplished martial artists, but usually have stat advantages against him as well.

Batman never really beaten Super Humans in the fact he relies on his tech and gear to beat them. He cannot do it on raw stats and skill like Ryu. He could not beat Bane without the Batmobile running Bane into the ocean when Bane grabed Batman lol.

The fact is Batman is not on the same level at all with Ryu and needs his toys to pull any win. He needs body armor to tank hits. Ryu does all this with just a cotton karate pants and shirt.

Ra's al Ghul, Bane, and Deathstroke are all stated to be superhuman, but unlike Ryu, they have the feats to back it up. Heck even Copperhead was superhuman, with her abnormal physiology allowing for inhuman movements and agility. She wasn't very strong, but made up for it by using talons. And Batman fought her while poisoned by a toxin that killed an average soldier in a couple seconds.

"Unlike Ryu they have feat" Are you joking? 3 minuet videos is no way enough to establish a character feats my friend. Ryu has 20 comics to establish his feats and the feats of those he has beaten.

I showed you Fei Long Feats, I showed you Gen feats, I showed you Balrog feats. Ryu took them all down. I could show you Sagat Feats, but then voters will complain of Scan Spam!

Hell with it, here is Sagat anyway!

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Dan's father Hibiki is a very skilled fighter who wiped out Triad with ease. When Sagat fought him, it was so one sided. The only hit Hibiki got in was a cheap shot on Sagat who tried to show mercy, he only wanted to make a point, yet Hibiki went for his best shot. Sagat ends his life.

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Here Sagat faces Chun Li and her Father, taking both of them down with ease. He is even hit by the Kikoshi which is strong enough to break steel doors down, and suffers no damage. Speed wise Sagat keeps up and counter Chun Li with no problem!

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Here Sagat easily takes blows from Adon after his grueling fight with Ryu. He even one shots Adon who has feats of Super Speed and super Jumping in the comics with one blow.

Sagat fights Chun Li and her Father.

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Sagat here fights a enraged Ryu. After his defeat Sagat received training from Dhalsim, and it pays off. He shows many feats of Stone smashing and stone wall cratering with his attacks. Ryu shows the durability to tank most of these attacks and keep up with Sagat for the most part.

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After Ryu receaves training from Dhalsim and Gen, he fights Sagat again. Only this time Ryu matches Sagat blow for blow and wins with his new Shinku Hadouken move. Sagat here even takes this super Hoduken in stride without being to damage to walk off the battlefield.

All of this is Sagat who a normal Ryu is capable of beating.

All these disadvantages and yet he was still the victor. THAT is skill. And of course, just like Deathstroke, Copperhead is directly referenced as mastering numerous assassination techniques ranging from strangulation to crushed bones, and is stated as capable of escaping nearly all forms of confinement.

Yet she is featless beyond her references. Nothing about her seems superior at all to Dhalsim who has not only more feats, but has telepathy, teleporting, stretching body, and fire powers.

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Ryu before training with Dhalsim matched him well enough.

It kinda russles my jimmies how you keep sticking to this ignorant, generalized opinion that Arkham antagonists are featless, even though I've provided numerous references for Deathstroke, Bane, Ra's, Shiva, and now Copperhead. Shiva in particular displayed far more technical knowledge in a single paragraph of the GCPD report (which I posted already, but you ignored D:) than Ryu ever has. Yet she complimented Batman's technique and failed to defeat him. Deathstroke too, is insanely skilled to the point of singlehandedly defeating 100 opponent's in his DLC battle map, not to mention the obvious stat advantage he had against Bruce. A little obscure, but like I said, once you look hard enough, they all have feats.

I Have shown feats from fei Long, Gen, and Sagat that blow any feats of Shiva away with actual proof of skill and superhuman abilities.

Killer Croc is a bullet proof 10 tonner; Batman KOd him bare handed. Deathstroke is superhuman and took down a bunch of Government trained dudes; Batman outfought him easy. Copperhead shows some great speed; defeated by a crippled Batman. Deadshot is basically a reality warper, hyper enhanced senses didn't help him detect Batman hiding in the shadows. And then there's Bane, who defeated three men his equal in size casually, who despite their physical ability couldn't lay a hand on him. Notice how he snaps their necks just by squeezing his fingers, that's a very awkward way to kill someone considering he has absolutely 0 leverage. Bane is pushing over 1,000 pounds in just his fingertips, and you think the dark knight is going to struggle with Ryu's strength.

How is Killer Croc a 10 toner, by what feat? he was at best a 2 toner from all the videos I seen.

Deathstroke is a joke to Gen.

Ryu match with Dhalsim who is way more powerful > Copper Head.

Hyper senses < Chi Sensing.

Sagat >>>> Bane. And Ryu does not need a Bat Mobile to beat him unlike Batman did.

Lets face it, Batman foes are not superior to the mass of feats of the foes I showed.

I really don't think Ryu can injure Batman at all with basic strikes. His raw durability is one thing; tanking Bane's best hits both on and off venom, and even getting beaten down by the 10 tonners TITAN Joker and Killer Croc. His suit though, adds an entirely new layer of protection, shielding him from explosions and high powered bullets. And finally the last line of defense, if all else is broken: there's always that indomitable will.

Batman takes enough fear toxin directly into his system to drive 10 men completely insane, but just comes back for more.

In Arkham City, a more-or-less already dead Batman collapsed and actually saw his parents, but rejected them. He literally died, saw Heaven, rejected it and decided to be alive again. Wow.

All things considered, there is no possible way for Ryu to put Batman down. Damage output needs to be accounted for; the only way Ryu can injure Bruce is with his special moves that both A) take time to charge and B) are easily dodgeable. Meanwhile, the dark knight will rock the street fighter's world with every punch. Akuma's Haduken didn't shatter a building like you're hyping it out to be, it just cracked a small platform. Bane could do that bare handed. So if that's Ryu's best durability feat, then there is simply just no way for him to win. Especially when Bruce can enhance his striking power even further with explosive gel or shock gauntlets, the former of which oneshotted TITAN Joker who tanked massive electrocution, and the latter packing enough juice to power elevators and kill Bane before jumpstarting his heart.

This is such wishful hoping. Ryu not only has superior attacks, he has superior stats, and most important if Batman pushed Ryu to the limits, then he will go Dark Ryu on his butt!

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Uses super speed to counter every move.

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Here Dark Ryu uses his chi empowered attacks to do more damage than Bane ever showed!

The only thing that concerns me is Dark Ryu. But there's context behind each time he actually succumbed.

His best friend, and main rival.

A rookie Ryu did it by accident without even knowing what was happening. Ever since he learned what it was, he consciously controlled it to never let it happen again.

Why would Cody spare his life? Isn't the dude's entire schtick being that he's a serial murderer? Seems like Ryu legitimately succumbed here, but only when he was at his all time lowest point of desperation.

He went dark for like, one panel because he saw a vision of Akuma.

Ryu does not hold anywhere near the same amount of animosity towards Batman that he does Akuma. This is basically saying Wolverine went feral against Sabretooth, the man who constantly goads and manipulates him into doing so, so obviously Wolverine will go feral against Spider-Man.

Ryu actually giving into the Satso No Hadou is an outlier that only occurs for hype, or story purposes. It is not in character for him to do it, even if he is in danger of losing, he isn't in much actual risk of losing anything important against Batman.

• This is silly, main rival how? If you read the comics, then you know Ken flat out told Ryu he cannot keep up with him and had to focus on his marriage. Main Rival where!?
• He did it without knowing that the need to win leads to the Dark Hadou. that is what it is, the need not to lose.
• Cody is not a murderer at all, he is in fact a good guy who saved the city and got busted on assault charges lol. Ryu went dark becuase he wanted to win more than allow himself to lose.
• He went Dark when Dhalsim tried to purge the rage from his heart, he failed. Ryu held onto that rage and then tried the murdering Gen for advice.
• True, but he goes dark when faced with a foe he cannot normally beaten. Akuma being case in point. In both Akuma fights, he goes Dark only when Akuma whoops his but.

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• He starts losing badly, then goes Dark!

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• Losing badly again, and goes Dark!

Ryu does not simply go dark when Akuma is around, he goes Dark when he starts losing any fight. He shows this consistently against Cody, Sagat, and Akuma twice. All foes who have nearly beaten Ryu.

Dark Ryu also went Dark from simple training.

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Here he goes Dark on himself in a internal battle.

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Here he does it again. As seen in both examples, Ryu Dark self is more superior to his average self.

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Here he goes Dark from a angry dream!

I have gave 9 separate examples of Ryu going Dark due to Anger, pushing himself to the limits, and the need to win. You can try and shrug it off as a non factor, sad fact is, it is a major factor and part of Ryu character.

Those special techniques are the only thing Ryu has over Batman. You're saying they make him physically superior though? That's like me saying show me Ryu cracking the Lacey Towers double-homicide case and proving Penguin's innocence in literal seconds, whereas the entire police force was baffled, and if you can't, then Batman is clearly smarter and therefore much more skilled than Ryu.

No, those techniques aren't an indication of Ryu's physical ability.

Batman is smarter detective wise. Not smarter skill wise :) this is a fight, not a Spelling Bee.

Now it's getting to the point where it seems like you aren't even reading my posts.

What about Venom Bane, TITAN Bane, or TITAN Joker? Each are definitely a lot stronger than peak human Balrog.

None of them hit Batman in cut Scenes and in a perfect gameplay from a pro player, they never get a real chance to land a hit!

Game Mechanics =/= Feats

Bruce doesn't wear kevlar. From Arkham Asylum,

Military-grade spun para-aramid fibers are molded into the batsuit chest piece to provide greater protection from attack. Super lightweight nano-engineered polymer plating incorporated into the Batsuit creates a more resilient outer shell, while ultra strong micro plating developed by WayneTech is layered between the regular armor and the undersuit. Additionally, the batsuit is soaked in a top secret prototype formula, developed by Lucius Fox at WayneTech, which massively increases durability without additional weight and retaining full movement and flexibility.

I'm not quite sure what any of that means, but it's clearly superior to kevlar. In addition, if you look at the upgrades menu, the suit is tailor made to absorb both ballistic impacts as well as blunt force, so Ryu's punches aren't getting through.

Seems to me Killer Croc, Deathstroke, and Bane punches make it through, Im confident Ryu's hits are going through.

Will power and endurance.

Which means what? Batman going to survive a train impact through will power now? Right.......

Stealth is still a viable tactic for Bruce to utilize. Ryu senses the chi of a man who wasn't even trying to conceal himself and was actively pumping himself up for a fight - BY increasing his chi (since that's how Street Fighter characters fight). Batman has snuck up on characters with enhanced senses multiple times such as Deadshot (super eyesight) and Killer Croc (enhanced smell).

Not to mention those straight up insane vanishing feats I've already posted. If Ryu loses sight of Batman, then it's all over.

Except for chi Sensing, something Batman has never shown to be able to hide at all lol.

Closing thoughts.

• Batman villains are vastly inferior in feats and superhuman abilities to the Street Fighters I showed that Ryu has countered and beaten.
• Ryu stats are far superior and do not require special suits or gear to win fights.
• Dark Ryu is a possibility, and if Ryu goes Dark, Batman stands no chance.
• Ryu has Chi Sensing to keep batman from vanishing on him.
• Ryu has range in Hadoukens and the uber powerful building busting Shinko Hadouken.

All in all, Ryu should win a majority.

Well, that's my say. Fun debating with you, let's do Snake vs Shadow sometime ;D @cadencev2

Yeah, this was pretty fun like the old days :) Snake and Shadow huh.... we can make that happen I suppose.

Once again I just want to point out that Batman has defeated many superhumans without his gear; Deathstroke, Ra's, and Bane namely (Arkham Origins Bane). There's also Killer Croc in Origins, Mr. Freeze, Solomon Grundy, and Poison Ivy (who he used explosive gel against, I admit, but not to any serious extent) all of whom may not be the most skilled, but are FARR more powerful than anybody in Street Fighter save Akuma, who is vastly superior to Ryu anyway so that doesn't mean much.

Snake and Shadow huh.... we can make that happen I suppose.

I'd actually like to do it as soon as possible, so just shout when you're ready.

@monsterstomp@neongamewave@wolverine08@jokergeist@dondave@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek@comicstooge@floopay@fetts

Arkham Batman vs Ryu. Real good read y'all.

This was a very good read. I'll have to skim over a couple of things beforeI finalize my vote.

Im ready for the match when you are lol.

Did you bring up Bruce's gear again after the first post?

@cadencev2: Killer Croc is at least a ten tonner. In both Arkham Asylum and Arkham City he runs through walls and iron fences without slowing down, in Arkham Origins he tore his way through Blackgate prison (smashing his way through steel and concrete) and effortlessly rips those massive gas canisters out of the ground and chucks them at Batman. Those things are bolted down, weigh several tons and in the cinematics he did it with very little effort.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/10/24/batman-arkham-origins-walkthrough-part-2-killer-croc-boss-fight

Yeah, mostly his explosive gel, shock gauntlets, and body armor.

So I guess this means Batman is a 20 toner right? :/ That is what it seems your getting at.

When did ya bring up electric Gauntlets? I had a feat to counter that but never saw that in my copy and paste.

@nickzambuto: I'm surprised the grappling hook, freeze grenades, glue grenades and taser-gun thing didn't factor into your argument too.

That said, I still vote for you. :D

I know, I've never debated with Arkham Batman before and got a little caught up in proving his H2H skill, since so many people think he only takes on canon fodder.

Next time, gear will definitely be a focus. And thank you for the vote.

I'm handing my vote to @nickzambuto.

Overall, I feel like he debated more points than CadenceV2 could counter. CadenceV2 obviously saw this as a straight up hand to hand fight, whereas nickzambuto debated how versatile Batman could be in this fight, utilizing the environment and gadgets. I felt like both parties were lowballing/overrating feats at some points, however minor. CadenceV2 did a good job at proving Ryu's offensive physical superiority and nickzambuto did a good job of proving that Batman could contend with people stronger and roughly as skilled.

I think if it came to a physical fight, Ryu could take a win in a good fight. But since it was never specified a straight up hand to hand confrontation, I have to give my vote to nickzambuto for bringing more logical and valid points into the argument. I enjoyed the read!

Also, like @comicstooge said, I was hoping to see more of Batman's gear brought into the debate. I think if you brought more gear into the debate like Batman's sonics into play, which I don't think Ryu has an answer for, it would have made the debate easier in your (nickz) favour.

Yeah, I was kinda limited to straight up fight :) Its like trying to argue Hulk being more than "Hulk smash" against say Thor who has more versatile powers.

I was kinda forced to focuse on H2H and that only since that is what Ryu does :(

Im just happy I could prove Ryu straight up fight superiority.

@cadencev2: Nah, he's Batman. He might as well be superhuman at this point. I must say, I'm leaning pretty strongly on Batman winning, and thus giving my vote nickzambuto, but the one thing that bothers me is hadokens. Bats has feats tanking some electricity and explosions but I don't know if he has any feats tanking energy blasts, or if those explosion/ electricity feats would count towards tanking energy blasts. If he doesn't, then I don't know who I will vote for.

Fair enough.

This was a really epic debate!!! Both of you awesome debaters brought you`re A games, I`m happy to see it conclude on a good note as I cannot wait to see what comes next in regards to a possible debate between Solid Snake and The Shadow but with that said, the winner of this debate that I think was able to convince me with not only his great level format of how he structured his points and how he highlighted his respective character but also because of mainly the counters he has illustrated as well as countered that debator for me is @nickzambuto, I believe he conveyed his points better and he strengthened them with the overall analysis of how Batman holds more of the advantages due to having gear, superior stats and the more handy feats that directly correlate with combat, however @cadencev2 did an excellent job as well and was able to intricately explain Ryu`s history of feats as well as why he is the great fighter that he is especially in going up against or matching Batman in specific areas.

Thanks. If Nick hurry up and get the next thread going! Ah hell, I will make it Nick.

@cadencev2: Are you going to change to OP to say voteing open?

I did not make the match lol.

@cadencev2: my bad

@nickzambuto: you going to change the OP to say voteing?