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#1 Edited by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman

Deathstroke

Conditions

  • In character
  • Random encounter
  • Arkham (video game series) Batman
  • New 52 Deathstroke
  • Win by knock out or kill

Location

  • Both combatants begin on opposite ends of the Eiffel Tower (ground)
  • The location is unpopulated.
  • Fight is at nightfall.

Longshot View

#2 Posted by Wolverine08 (27364 posts) - - Show Bio

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#3 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts Hope this is good for you. Do you want to open up?

#4 Posted by logy5000 (5535 posts) - - Show Bio

You're doing a CaV over a fight that's been done a dozen times in the comics?

#5 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000: So you just jumped on and commented?

#6 Posted by logy5000 (5535 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Edited by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@monsterstomp said:

@logy5000: So you just jumped on and commented?

It would sure seem to appear that way.

Lol. This is Arkham Batman and I wouldn't have created it if I didn't have a feasible back up.

#8 Posted by logy5000 (5535 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@monsterstomp said:

@logy5000: So you just jumped on and commented?

It would sure seem to appear that way.

Lol. This is Arkham Batman and I wouldn't have created it if I didn't have a feasible back up.

Ohhh. That makes a lot more sense. I figured this was comic Batman vs comic Deathstroke, which would be very hard for you to win if you're defending Batman.

#9 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be interesting. I love the Arkham games and am dying for origins cause.... You guessed it i get to play as Deathstroke. I never preordered a game until this one came out. Anyway back on topic good luck with you battle both of you. Fetts may the force be with you. Always.

#10 Posted by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: I won't be able to get on this until tomorrow. So, if you want to start go ahead.

This should be interesting. I love the Arkham games and am dying for origins cause.... You guessed it i get to play as Deathstroke. I never preordered a game until this one came out.

Anyway back on topic good luck with you battle both of you. Fetts may the force be with you. Always.

Hey, same here!

Haha. Thanks dude.

#11 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: WE HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON. WE'RE LIKE TWINS.... ONLY CLOSER. jk hahaha.

#12 Posted by Auction_Sniper (1088 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's get this on, baby.

#13 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4947 posts) - - Show Bio

Arkham City and Asylum Batman was basically comic Batman. But let's see how this goes lol.

#14 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller: skill set wise... Sort of. Anyway he has none of the comic feats so that should make it harder.

#15 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4947 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller: skill set wise... Sort of. Anyway he has none of the comic feats so that should make it harder.

You could say that now that he has a set continuity with Origins. But before in AC and AA they were pretty much the same Batman.

#16 Posted by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts Okay then. I hope this message works lol.

Lets start with gear.

Gear

Forensic Analysis Kit - If you've played the games, you'll know that this consist of his scanner and calibrator. His scanner has been able to obtain fingerprints, track alcohol dispersed into the atmosphere, trace blood, calculate trajectory etc Though one of the main advantages is that it can scan Slade's armour and exploit weak points just like he did with Mr Freeze's armour, and Slade's armour does have weak points.

Here he analyses Mr Freeze's armour: 1:55

More of his gear consists of: Explosive Gel, Batarang, Remote Batarang, Reverse Batarang, Sonic Batarang, Line Launcher, Smoke Pellets, Batclaw, Electrical Charge, Disruptor, Freeze Cluster and Freeze Blast. Which I'll get into more depth later.

Batman vs Mr Freeze: Thought I'd add this to show you that Batman makes good use of analysing Mr Freeze's armour. In the game you can't take Freeze out the same way twice, so Batman has to adjust and exploit different weak points.

I know guns are a part of Deathstroke's standard gear and Batman will know this while analysing Slade. However, Batman doesn't fight armed people head on, so stealth is an instinctive option for him.

Stealth

Batman vs Armed thugs: 5:00

"Attacking armed thugs head on is suicide. I need to disappear, pick them off silently one by one."

Add to the fact that Batman says Freeze was too dangerous to take head on. So it's very feasible that Batman would use the environment to the fullest, taking every advantage he can to disappear on Slade and go stealth, and to my recollection, Slade has near no experience against stealth opponents in the n52. So Batman can grapple hook his way around the Eiffel Tower until he has lost Slade and Batman is fast while navigating around obstacles as seen in the following video...

Batman vs Deadshot: 11:55

He makes it across the city within 3 minutes (which, realistically, is impressive). Batman's disruptor would be able to render Slade's firearms useless, bringing the fight to a melee confrontation like he did with Penguin.

Batman vs Penguin: 4:20

Fact is, Slade still has his trusty sword, which Batman has no problem dealing with also.

Skill

This is where the analysis of Slade's armour comes handy. Batman knows where the weak points are and has dealt with skilled swordsmen before.

Batman vs Ra's Al Ghul: 1:00

He has shown some insane blocking speed and combat speed at 8:35. He also disarms Ra's, and straight up owns his ass, Slade lacks true skill in my opinion. Batman was under the effects of the Demon trials and was seeing past illusions.

More skill: "I eat punks like these for breakfast". I show this feat because it directs reference. He smacked the tar out of several thugs and states that he eats them for breakfast.

Which is more impressive when combined with this feat:

I'll give you a chance to counter, but I think my message is clear. Batman's expertise with his gear and his tactical/strategical mindset should allow him to get the better of Slade. They have the whole Eiffel Tower to play with, a chance for Batman to go stealth, analyse the situation, plan out his tactics, and take full advantage with his gear.

#18 Edited by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by Cable_Extreme (6913 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting debate!!!!

#21 Posted by Pokeysteve (7082 posts) - - Show Bio

Another good one! Does anyone else think Arkham Batman is a smidge more bad ass than comic Batman? It's gotta be Conroy.

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#22 Edited by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

Alright monsterstomp. You my friend, made a huge mistake by pitting Arkham series Batman vs the friggin New-52 Deathstroke. Heck, this might be one of the shortest debates I will ever have. Because New-52 Deathstroke monumentally outclasses Arkham series Batman (heck, he monumentally outclasses comic book Batman). Get ready for one of the biggest slaughterstomp CaV matches in history.

Scared? You should be ;)

Pre-52 Deathstroke

In this section, I will prove to you why even Pre-52 Deathstroke could utterly destroy Batman here. To do so, I will quote a segment made by yours truly that I have used in the past:

Even without Slade's enhancements, he is easily a bullet timer.

Read from right to left

Here, Slade is de-powered and wounded after a helicopter crash. But despite both of those disadvantages, he still dodge a bullet (third scan) and kicked the crap out of an elite squad with his bare hands.

But with his enhancements, Slade's speed/reflexes are increased to a factor of ten!

So at this point, Deathstroke is now ten times faster than the average bullet-timer. This is partly why he has consistently owned skilled and super-powered teams.

Just so you know, "ten times faster than the average bullet-timer" means Slade has hypersonic reflexes.

Meanwhile, Arkham series Batman doesn't really have bullet-timer reflexes at all. When he's in a direct confrontation with an armed thug or soldier, he's almost always hit. Batman himself has said

"Attacking armed thugs head-on is suicide".

Skip to 5:14

Well, at least for him that is. Which brings me to my next segment.

New-52 Deathstroke

"Speed, strength, and higher brain functions.... All enhanced." This is proof that New-52 Deathstroke still has all of those gnarly upgrades that Pre-52 Deathstroke has.

Suicide? Suicde my a**!
"Five guys of fifty-five guys, it doesn't seem to matter"

Here's another quote from previous arguments:

You'll notice he has his Nth Metal Armor. Nth Metal increases Slade's abilities to a noticeable degree, including speed.

So now Deathstroke is significantly faster than ten times the average bullet-timer.

Deathstroke's hypersonic reflexes are increased even further due to his Nth Metal armor. Deathstroke has Batman hilariously outclassed in speed and reflexes.

Why Batman's Analysis Will Fail

Firstly, Batman's analysis takes time. It took Oracle minutes to send him all of Mr. Freeze's weaknesses. So how then, is Batman supposed to take minutes to analyze all of Deathstroke's supposed weaknesses, when he doesn't even have one minute to live?

Secondly, you seem pretty certain that Deathstroke's armor has weaknesses. Yet you failed to mention them. Would you care to enlighten me on these weaknesses?

Why Batman's Stealth Will Fail

Ah there are so many reasons why Batman will fail in any stealth attempt. Shall we take a look at them?

Exhibit A: Deathstroke's Gunslinging Skills

Deathstroke is an excellent gunslinger. He has a quickdraw that matches Deadshot's (the comic book version that is).

Keep in mind that this was Pre-52 Deathstroke

Deadshot, who is so speedy with his guns that he's capable of tagging speedsters.

Read from right to left

Deathstroke also has uncanny marksmanship to go with that quickdraw.

So what does this mean for Batman? It means that Batman has absolutely zero chance of a) firing his Batclaw to get up to the Eiffel Tower (as Deathstroke could just shoot the Batclaw or Batman in the head) or b) disabling Deathstroke's guns with his disruptor since it takes a couple of seconds for that to work. Seconds Batman doesn't have since Slade will be firing those bad boys in less than one.

Exhibit B: Deathstroke's Enhanced Senses

Let's hypothetically say that Slade didn't have those amazing gunslinging skills. And let's also hypothetically say that Batman managed to get up to the Eiffel Tower. Hiding from Slade would be impossible. The guy has an unnatural sense of sight.

Exhibit C: Deathstroke's Nth Metal Body Armor

How on God's wonderful green earth, would he get through that armor? If Batman is going to attempt to take Slade out with stealth, he'd need to take him out quickly as well. If he gives Deathstroke a chance to fight back, he'll be dead in one slice. And it's simply going to be impossible to take him down quickly with that insanely durable armor Deathstroke wears.

Tanks minigun fire like nothing.
Deathstroke dodged most of this, but his armor still had to withstand a good portion of that explosion.

Deathstroke vs Batman Battles In The Past

Pre-52 Deathstroke has defeated Pre-52 Batman on more than one occasion. Most of them were complete utter stomps.

Read from right to left

Each and every time, Deathstroke could have killed Batman if he wanted to.

So then how is a weaker version of Batman supposed to defeat a stronger version of Deathstroke? When a stronger version of Batman is regularly defeated by a weaker version of Deathstroke? Let me answer that for you: he can't.

My Conclusion

Deathstroke's physicals are far, far superior to Batman's. Batman's stealth skills are completely negated because he'll never get the chance to use them. And there is not single piece of equipment in Batman's belt that has a hope of effecting Deathstroke. Honestly, I see this battle ending a lot like this:

Watch from 0:38-0:47

Or if you prefer the more anticlimactic approach, Deathstroke shoots Batman through the mouth. Game over.

Looking forward to your reply ;)

#23 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: wow nice post. Shots fired against monster stomp.

#24 Posted by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4947 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by Omnicrono (1001 posts) - - Show Bio

My questions is - why "Arkham" Batman and not simply New52 Batman? New52 Bats would have stood a far better chance.

#27 Posted by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (4947 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts That's all well and good, but you fail to list why pre-52 Deathstroke has a hint of purpose here. Pre-52 Slade is vastly superior to his n52 counterpart, and the n52 version is a complete reboot. Unless its all in a canon match, which wasn't proven in your argument.

With that said, I'm going to refer to the New 52 argument you presented, which seemed a little non existent.

New 52 Deathstroke

While its great that you acknowledge the statements made in the scans you've posted, Slade still has a lot more to prove in the feats he's performed.

"Speed, strength, and higher brain functions.... All enhanced." This is proof that New-52 Deathstroke still has all of those gnarly upgrades that Pre-52 Deathstroke has."

This isn't true. How does a statement and owning 8 soldiers prove anything about having the same upgrades as Pre-52 Slade? It really doesn't. New 52 Deathstroke hasn't done half of the feats Pre-52 has performed, so we shouldn't get too ahead of ourselves. You could show me a hundred of those statements and it wouldn't make it anymore true than the first time.

Why Deathstroke's Armour isn't invulnerable:

I can show you countless scans of Slade being tagged by bullets and blades (This will also prove that Slade's armour isn't completely invulnerable)

I think that's enough to go on to say Slade's armour isn't completely invulnerable. He really has only shown resistance to blunt force for the most part. His downfall is that he relies too much on his armour and healing factor. Not to mention Slade likes to play with his victims like he did with Killswitch.

Arkham Batman

Why stealth will come before analysing:

"Attacking armed thugs head on is suicide. I need to disappear, pick them off silently one by one."

It doesn't take long for Batman to flick on his forensic scanner/sonar goggles and notice that an enemy is packing heat and I highly doubt Deathstroke can close the gap from one side of the Tower to the other in the time it takes Batman to grapple hook his way up and around the Eiffel Tower. Let alone, quick drawing on Batman at that distance. Slade may have been accurate enough to tag a fly with a paperclip, but a paperclip isn't a gun and Batman isn't a fly. We have yet to see a decent showing of his accuracy with guns, I mean he's accurate but he's not as accurate as his pre-52 predecessor.

Why analysing will work:

Like I've already proven, he can scan Slade's armour in seconds and since he's in stealth mode, he can take all the time he needs to analyse the data that was uploaded to the Batcomputer (which he can do in mid combat)

This leads me to believe Batman has a direct connection to the Batcomputer.

Batman is smarter by far, and stealth is one of his INSTINCTIVE ways when dealing with armed opponents. So analysing will come after stealth. It was also shown on the Church Tower video I posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEAYrRUkWDg) where Batman avoids an armed encounter and then analyses his options, and as I've already stated before, Slade has near no experience when dealing with stealthy opponents in the New 52, or at least, you have yet to prove it.

Speed

Lets not forget about the Arkham comic book tie-ins, which are canon with the Arkham series. In addition to Batman navigating through the city in 3 minutes Batman has also avoided fire from a helicopter which he outpaces.

Not that Slade will get any good shots in since his guns will be disabled by Batman's disruptor.

Tactics

See I still don't know what makes the majority of Slade's n52 battles impressive. He beat a bunch of unnamed guys with next to no feats of their own, all we know is that they can give Slade a fight. Batman still has tons of tactics he can use. He isn't a stranger to being accurate in pressured situations.

Accuracy:

His fights with Bane, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Ra's, and Clayface should be enough evidence of this.

Batman vs Bane: 4:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz1LJWhtBP8

Batman has to throw batarangs at Bane during his rush attacks.

Batman vs Poison Ivy: 2:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUmB0g4DjSA

Batman only has a limited window to tag Ivy while dodging fire.

Batman vs Killer Croc: Just fast forward to any of the times where Croc appears and Batman has to knock him off the platforms with his batarang.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjnkU_zve14

Batman vs Ra's: 1:00. Even though Batman is hallucinating, each hallucinated attack still inflicts harm, which leads me to believe that in real life, Ra's is actually harming Batman. Batman can tag Ra's while seeing illusions and dodging harmful attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUr8Ab0BT0Y

Batman vs Clayface: 2:30. Just like the other examples, Batman avoids attacks and throws freeze blasts on Clayface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0cQLRI4_3w

More accuracy from the comics:

Slade barely dodges anything anyway, so these batarangs could be troublesome.

Ultimately, I still think Batman can still bring this into a close quarter confrontation.

Batman can lace his fists with explosive gel like he did with Joker and soldiers. Aimed in the vulnerable places and Slade will go down handily. Slade lacks hand to hand skill. Batman can smack the tar out of thugs with ease. Batman's striking feats are good enough to trouble Grundy, who is at least a 5 tonner too.

Batman vs Grundy: 5:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quqUrAvoRsg

Explosive gel can crumble concrete walls with ease. Couple that with Batman's bulletproof glass shattering punches and superior combat speed and we have a pretty brutal beating for Slade.

Here is Batman shattering bulletproof glass in two hits: 3:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsQeM_ZDwJc

I think the common misconception was with the gameplay. Everything just seems slower, but really, its boarder lining comic Bats. To summarise, Batman has the speed to disappear from n52 Slade and again, this is an instinctive reaction when facing armed thugs. Then Batman can analyse Slade's armour, looking for vulnerable points and he has a direct connection to the batcomputer. Then he could use the disruptor to negate Slade's firearms. Obviously I still see this coming down to a close quarter confrontation. New 52 Slade isn't as good as his pre-52 counterpart,'if that was the case, I wouldn't have challenged anyone, lol.

#30 Posted by Wolverine08 (27364 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, @monsterstomp has been improving his debating a lot. Makes me feel like I got some work to do on mine. *Plays with shirt collar nervously*

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#31 Edited by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Wolverine08 (27364 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#33 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Edited by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Posted by Auction_Sniper (1088 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, that was pretty good. I can't wait to see how Fetts comes back.

#38 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

My questions is - why "Arkham" Batman and not simply New52 Batman? New52 Bats would have stood a far better chance.

Arkham Batman is arguably smarter and has gear that can exploit Slade's weaknesses.

#39 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp I apologize for not getting back on this. I've been busy. But I assure you I haven't forgotten :)

#41 Posted by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

ALRIGHT. I do sincerely apologize for the delay. Life's been hectic. But I'm good now. So let us continue ;)

While its great that you acknowledge the statements made in the scans you've posted, Slade still has a lot more to prove in the feats he's performed.

"Speed, strength, and higher brain functions.... All enhanced." This is proof that New-52 Deathstroke still has all of those gnarly upgrades that Pre-52 Deathstroke has."

This isn't true. How does a statement and owning 8 soldiers prove anything about having the same upgrades as Pre-52 Slade? It really doesn't. New 52 Deathstroke hasn't done half of the feats Pre-52 has performed, so we shouldn't get too ahead of ourselves. You could show me a hundred of those statements and it wouldn't make it anymore true than the first time.

Hm. You do raise a point that they might not necessarily be the same enhancements. But I still find my hypothesis perfectly plausible. We have seen things from New-52 Deathstroke that Pre-52 Deathstroke hasn't accomplished as well. We've seen New-52 Slade rip steel doors off at high altitudes (effortlessly I might add).

We've never seen strength like that from Pre-52 Deathstroke.

Probably the best strength feat Pre-52 Deathstroke has: kicks down a steel reinforced door.

We've seen him blitz soldiers from approximately twenty feet before they so much as pull the triggers. Normally, when Deathstroke takes on soldiers he doesn't have the travel speed to close the gap, and thus has to dodge. This has happened at ranges much closer than twenty feet.

A couple of examples

Speed is something I actually want to highlight here. Deathstroke has had some amazing feats in the Pre-52-verse. Some of which you've already seen. But I still believe New-52 Deathstroke is amazingly better than Pre-52 Deathstroke. True, Pre-52 Deathstroke has more feats than New-52 Deathstroke. But as the saying goes: quality over quantity. New-52 Deathstroke may not have done team-busting like Pre-52 Deathstroke did (yet). But that's only because Slade hasn't had encounters like that. And I think it's pretty clear that New-52 Slade has the potential to do so.

When most superheroes/villains encounter armed peeps, the armed peeps almost always get a shot off. Much like Pre-52 Deathstroke's encounters. While he easily has the reflexes to dodge bullets themselves, he doesn't have the travel speed to take down the guys with the guns before they can react. But New-52 Deathstroke is so friggin beastly, he dispatches squads of armed soldiers and suchlike before they even react. He's like a speedster.

I count Deathstroke taking out nine terrorists before they can even react, with individual strokes.
Deathstroke has a bunch of elite soldiers with their heavy weaponry trained on him. Deathstroke appears approximately 15 feet above them and behind their 6:00 just as they are shooting.
Shoots two guards before they even pull the triggers.

Meanwhile, Arkham Batman is lucky if he defeats one guard with a gun in a straight up, no-stealth-mode fight. And even if he does, it takes him like 5 punches/15 seconds just to take him down. While New-52 Slade takes down entire teams of guys with guns in less time.

We've seen him take on a metahuman who has the strength to toss 6,900 ton submarines like footballs, among other powers. Deathstroke has never beaten a metahuman that strong before.

Deathstroke's only encounter with an immensely strong superhuman was with Superman. All he managed to do was evade him with PIS.

I'll get to more differences soon.

Why Deathstroke's Armour isn't invulnerable:

I can show you countless scans of Slade being tagged by bullets and blades (This will also prove that Slade's armour isn't completely invulnerable)

I think that's enough to go on to say Slade's armour isn't completely invulnerable. He really has only shown resistance to blunt force for the most part. His downfall is that he relies too much on his armour and healing factor. Not to mention Slade likes to play with his victims like he did with Killswitch.

Scan 1: Firstly, this was Grant Wilson who was throwing these knives. The guy has enhanced strength. A multi-tonner would be able to throw a 1 lb. knife (which is presumably Promethium) with incredible speed. Secondly, Slade was actually in a weakened state in this fight. Grant says it/implies it himself. Read the scan.

Scan 2: Even Deathstroke notes that you'd need tremendous speed and accuracy to pierce the armor. And Tomo clearly did have that level of speed and accuracy.

Scan 3: Oh geez!!! Deathstroke got stabbed by his own friggin Promethium sword by the same metahuman who threw a submarine effortlessly. And this was right after he survived said massive submarine toss and explosion. How embarrassing!!!

...

Scan 4: I'm just going to go ahead and assume that's PIS, as that armor has tanked far worse.

In addition, it's funny how you're pointing how "weak" Slade's armor is, yet Batman still doesn't have anything like those weapons. Furthermore, he neither has the superhuman speed nor the superhuman strength that most of these guys had to make their weapons' effects to be even more lethal. In fact, what's even funnier is that Batman doesn't even have so much has a gun, which pierced his armor in Scan 4. So even if Scan 4 wasn't PIS, and Slade's armor really was that weak, Batman still has nothing to get through it!

Why analysing will work:

Like I've already proven, he can scan Slade's armour in seconds and since he's in stealth mode, he can take all the time he needs to analyse the data that was uploaded to the Batcomputer (which he can do in mid combat)

This leads me to believe Batman has a direct connection to the Batcomputer.

Batman is smarter by far, and stealth is one of his INSTINCTIVE ways when dealing with armed opponents. So analysing will come after stealth. It was also shown on the Church Tower video I posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEAYrRUkWDg) where Batman avoids an armed encounter and then analyses his options, and as I've already stated before, Slade has near no experience when dealing with stealthy opponents in the New 52, or at least, you have yet to prove it.

You sir are one funny bunny. Batman may have a direct connection to the Batcomputer. But the Batcomputer's analysis is far from instantaneous. Let's take a look shall we?

Watch from beginning to 5:06.

More than five minutes passed by and the Batcomputer's analysis still wasn't complete.

Speaking of Batman's stealth (the stealth that he'll never get the chance to utilize), you fail to recognize Slade's enhanced senses, which would completely negate Batman's stealth entirely.

"I feel a slight shift in the air, the wind humming. Something fast is approaching from behind me."
"His scent is not of this earth"
Perceives two guards around a corner

Speed

Lets not forget about the Arkham comic book tie-ins, which are canon with the Arkham series. In addition to Batman navigating through the city in 3 minutes Batman has also avoided fire from a helicopter which he outpaces.

Not that Slade will get any good shots in since his guns will be disabled by Batman's disruptor.

This my friend, is not dodging bullets. This is dodging aim. I'm kinda glad you showed this picture though. I can use this to show the difference between dodging aim and bullets in the future.

Notice how the bullets are lighting up the roof behind Batman, and then they were getting much closer as Batman jumped off the roof. Batman merely jumped off the the building before the gunner (who was noobishly pressing the trigger before he had his sights on Batman) could bring his sights to where Batman was. That's dodging aim. Dodging bullets would have looked like this: the gunner already has his sights on Batman (like an actually professional soldier), pulls the trigger, but yet Batman avoids getting shot after the trigger is pulled.

And Batman only made it through the city under three minutes via his Batclaw grappel gun and gliding with his cape. Not his physique. Thus, that feat doesn't apply in this fight. Or slaughter. Whatever you want to call it.

And I've already discussed Batman's disruptor:

It means that Batman has absolutely zero chance of a) firing his Batclaw to get up to the Eiffel Tower (as Deathstroke could just shoot the Batclaw or Batman in the head) or b) disabling Deathstroke's guns with his disruptor since it takes a couple of seconds for that to work. Seconds Batman doesn't have since Slade will be firing those bad boys in less than one.

Please don't be ignorant. I find it particularly annoying when my opponents are ignorant.

Tactics

See I still don't know what makes the majority of Slade's n52 battles impressive. He beat a bunch of unnamed guys with next to no feats of their own, all we know is that they can give Slade a fight. Batman still has tons of tactics he can use. He isn't a stranger to being accurate in pressured situations.

Bah! That's funny! Did you seriously just imply that the world's deadliest mercenary, who has enhanced brain functions, as tactically inept? Are you seriously--

*sniff sniff*

Do you smell that? It's... It's.... Bullcrap!!! EW!!!!!!!!!!

Ha, ok I'm sorry for my trolling. I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously bro. You might not want to make silly comments like that.

Let's disprove that statement shall we? Read these from right to left:

Makes an enormously powerful EMP device that defeats Legacy within seconds; all from components from a submarine.
Without any proof or evidence, Slade immediately deduces that Grant Wilson was behind the recent attacks against him.
Purposely gets captured and breaks out of a prison built to hold metahumans; killing his target in the process.

Accuracy:

His fights with Bane, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Ra's, and Clayface should be enough evidence of this.

Batman vs Bane: 4:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz1LJWhtBP8

Batman has to throw batarangs at Bane during his rush attacks.

Batman vs Poison Ivy: 2:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUmB0g4DjSA

Batman only has a limited window to tag Ivy while dodging fire.

Batman vs Killer Croc: Just fast forward to any of the times where Croc appears and Batman has to knock him off the platforms with his batarang.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjnkU_zve14

Batman vs Ra's: 1:00. Even though Batman is hallucinating, each hallucinated attack still inflicts harm, which leads me to believe that in real life, Ra's is actually harming Batman. Batman can tag Ra's while seeing illusions and dodging harmful attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUr8Ab0BT0Y

Batman vs Clayface: 2:30. Just like the other examples, Batman avoids attacks and throws freeze blasts on Clayface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0cQLRI4_3w

More accuracy from the comics:

While Batman may have more accuracy feats, none of those are as nearly as impressive as taking a fly out with a paper clip. Flies are unpredictable, fast, and very small. Yet Slade still snipes it with a paper clip effortlessly. Faces, vines, bulging amphibious bodies, huge mobile balls of clay, and detonators; none of them are as nearly as hard to tag as a fly is.

Slade barely dodges anything anyway, so these batarangs could be troublesome.

So, not only is that false, but you also think that batarangs would actually do something to Slade? His armor tanked minigun fire like nothing. To say batarangs would bounce off Slade like paperclips would be an understatement.

Batman can lace his fists with explosive gel like he did with Joker and soldiers. Aimed in the vulnerable places and Slade will go down handily. Slade lacks hand to hand skill. Batman can smack the tar out of thugs with ease. Batman's striking feats are good enough to trouble Grundy, who is at least a 5 tonner too.

Batman vs Grundy: 5:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quqUrAvoRsg

Batman fights 5 tonners with effort. Deathstroke fight 7,000+ tonners with effort. You see the massive difference between the two?

Explosive gel can crumble concrete walls with ease.

Bah! Submarines can crumble cargo docks with ease. Didn't stop Slade did it? ;)

Couple that with Batman's bulletproof glass shattering punches and superior combat speed and we have a pretty brutal beating for Slade.

Joke of the day^

I think the common misconception was with the gameplay. Everything just seems slower, but really, its boarder lining comic Bats. To summarise, Batman has the speed to disappear from n52 Slade and again, this is an instinctive reaction when facing armed thugs. Then Batman can analyse Slade's armour, looking for vulnerable points and he has a direct connection to the batcomputer. Then he could use the disruptor to negate Slade's firearms. Obviously I still see this coming down to a close quarter confrontation. New 52 Slade isn't as good as his pre-52 counterpart,'if that was the case, I wouldn't have challenged anyone, lol.

Boarder lining comic book Batman? Based off what?? Him running off the building before he gets gunned down? That's ridiculous. Anybody who has read their share of Batman comics knows that Arkham Batman isn't even close to comic book Batman's level.

I've disproved the rest.

Honestly, I think I'm ready for voting.

#42 Edited by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts

Hm. You do raise a point that they might not necessarily be the same enhancements. But I still find my hypothesis perfectly plausible. We have seen things from New-52 Deathstroke that Pre-52 Deathstroke hasn't accomplished as well. We've seen New-52 Slade rip steel doors off at high altitudes (effortlessly I might add).

Plain and simple, Slade isn't the same. I feel no need to address to the pre-52 feats. He was very impressive pre-52, not so much in the n52.

Speed is something I actually want to highlight here. Deathstroke has had some amazing feats in the Pre-52-verse. Some of which you've already seen. But I still believe New-52 Deathstroke is amazingly better than Pre-52 Deathstroke. True, Pre-52 Deathstroke has more feats than New-52 Deathstroke. But as the saying goes: quality over quantity. New-52 Deathstroke may not have done team-busting like Pre-52 Deathstroke did (yet). But that's only because Slade hasn't had encounters like that. And I think it's pretty clear that New-52 Slade has the potential to do so.

When most superheroes/villains encounter armed peeps, the armed peeps almost always get a shot off. Much like Pre-52 Deathstroke's encounters. While he easily has the reflexes to dodge bullets themselves, he doesn't have the travel speed to take down the guys with the guns before they can react. But New-52 Deathstroke is so friggin beastly, he dispatches squads of armed soldiers and suchlike before they even react. He's like a speedster.

This isn't that impressive to be honest. The majority of street levellers you see have taken on groups of armed men without them pulling the trigger. Batman's little trip through Wonder Tower is proof of this.

Skip to 4:50. While Batman is standing there through Prof Strange's lecture, Wonder Tower guards with assault rifles, tazer's and riot shields come through and surround Bats. They clearly have the advantage over Bats in sheer numbers, firepower and surprise. Without commenting too much of the gameplay itself, Batman makes it by.

Meanwhile, Arkham Batman is lucky if he defeats one guard with a gun in a straight up, no-stealth-mode fight. And even if he does, it takes him like 5 punches/15 seconds just to take him down. While New-52 Slade takes down entire teams of guys with guns in less time.

Also, Batman has dropped people with single hits before:

Skip to 2:40. Bats clearly drops three prisoners with single strikes. Also, 5 of Batman's punches doesn't take him 15 seconds to throw. Refer to the Batman vs Ra's Al Ghul fight I added in before.

Scan 1: Firstly, this was Grant Wilson who was throwing these knives. The guy has enhanced strength. A multi-tonner would be able to throw a 1 lb. knife (which is presumably Promethium) with incredible speed. Secondly, Slade was actually in a weakened state in this fight. Grant says it/implies it himself. Read the scan.

Scan 2: Even Deathstroke notes that you'd need tremendous speed and accuracy to pierce the armor. And Tomo clearly did have that level of speed and accuracy.

Scan 3: Oh geez!!! Deathstroke got stabbed by his own friggin Promethium sword by the same metahuman who threw a submarine effortlessly. And this was right after he survived said massive submarine toss and explosion. How embarrassing!!!

Scan 1: There is no proof that the knife was made of Promethium and the knife was slicing Slade's armour pretty lightly. It was barely chipping away at it.

Scan 2: In this case, Batman does have the speed and skill to exploit the armour's weakness. I've already given proof of his forensic analysing abilities.

Scan 3: Fair enough.

Scan 4: I'm just going to go ahead and assume that's PIS, as that armor has tanked far worse.

Scan 4: I wouldn't consider it PIS. It's simple. The mesh of his armour isn't as potent as the armoured padding. Grant was barely chipping away at his amour and causing squirts of blood.

In regards to Batman's analysing ability. Mr Freeze's armour is way more complex than Slade's armour. There are at least seven different ways to take advantage of his armour. What makes Slade's armour so complex that Batman himself couldn't deduce its weak points? Moreover, Batman's batarangs should be sharp enough to take advantage of those points of weakness.

Skip to 11:45. Uses a batarang to cut the support of a heavy bell.

Destroys a detonator.

I see no reason for Batman to use his batarangs as a cutting device.

Bah! That's funny! Did you seriously just imply that the world's deadliest mercenary, who has enhanced brain functions, as tactically inept? Are you seriously--

*sniff sniff*

Do you smell that? It's... It's.... Bullcrap!!! EW!!!!!!!!!!

Ha, ok I'm sorry for my trolling. I don't mean to be offensive, but seriously bro. You might not want to make silly comments like that.

Let's disprove that statement shall we? Read these from right to left:

In regards to the EMP scan. That was good use of tactics. Other than that, the other two scans just show he's smart. Batman surpasses him in tactics. Just look at one of the many boss fights we have Batman in and in one way or another, we have to use tactics.

While Batman may have more accuracy feats, none of those are as nearly as impressive as taking a fly out with a paper clip. Flies are unpredictable, fast, and very small. Yet Slade still snipes it with a paper clip effortlessly. Faces, vines, bulging amphibious bodies, huge mobile balls of clay, and detonators; none of them are as nearly as hard to tag as a fly is.

Just because Slade can flick a paper clip at a fly doesn't mean his that good with guns. He hasn't shown such accuracy and Batman will be quick to disappear.

Slade barely dodges anything anyway, so these batarangs could be troublesome.

So, not only is that false, but you also think that batarangs would actually do something to Slade? His armor tanked minigun fire like nothing. To say batarangs would bounce off Slade like paperclips would be an understatement.

How is this false? Slade has taken pretty much everything that has been thrown at him. Why wouldn't batarangs do something? Grant was able to slice his armour, batarangs can be used as a slicing device just as easy as blunt force. Did you watch the Killer Croc video? Croc is a 580 pound muscle, yet Bats can throw a batarang with enough force to knock that 580 pound of charging muscle into the water. Before you start saying "The electric shock knocked Croc into the water", note that in the opening scene of Arkham Asylum, Croc made an appearance and was shocked multiple times without much visible effect.

Batman fights 5 tonners with effort. Deathstroke fight 7,000+ tonners with effort. You see the massive difference between the two?

Slade never out-muscled Legacy. He only outsmarted Legacy. Lets not forget the fact that Legacy was bullsh**ting around the majority of the fight. It was his own flaw that Slade won. Still as impressive? :P

Boarder lining comic book Batman? Based off what?? Him running off the building before he gets gunned down? That's ridiculous. Anybody who has read their share of Batman comics knows that Arkham Batman isn't even close to comic book Batman's level.

Based off what?

Look at the victim disappear before Joker's thugs get off a shot. New 52 and Pre-52 Bats has done something likely as well.

In addition, Arkham Bats is arguably smarter than mainstream Bats.

If that's the best you got and you're finished we can start voting.

I just want to summarize in depth why I still believe Batman wins.

  • I've proven Batman instinctively evades foes packing heat and with that (above scan) kind of disappearing act from opposite sides of the Eiffel Tower, I wouldn't doubt Batman's ability to go stealth before Slade recognizes that a man was just standing several meters away a moment ago.
  • Batman has analysed Mr Freeze's armour, which is more complex than Slade's armour. With Batman's level of intellect and tactical mind, I couldn't give a reason why deducing weak points in Slade's armour would be more problematic than Mr Freeze's armour.
  • Batman has a disruptor, a gadget that allows him to jam enemy firearms without them even knowing. This takes the fight to close quarters. Keep in mind Batman still has tabs on Slade due to his sonar.
  • Now with that out of the way, Batman has taken on a skilled swordsmen before and with the element of surprise, why can't he disarm Slade and bring the fight to a hand to hand confrontation.
  • I've shown Batman take out Penguin's thugs with ease. Slade has little to no hand to hand feats in the n52. With Batman's knowledge on Slade's weak points, Slade eventually goes down.

Batman wins via out smarting, out stealthing, and out performing Slade.

#43 Posted by Wolverine08 (27364 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys have started voting?

Online
#44 Posted by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio

Gah! I hate myself for keep on countering responses after I say I'm done. But I can't resist. Here we go.

@monsterstomp

Plain and simple, Slade isn't the same. I feel no need to address to the pre-52 feats. He was very impressive pre-52, not so much in the n52.

Been over this. New-52 Deathstroke has speed and strength feats Pre-52 Deathstroke could never perform.

This isn't that impressive to be honest. The majority of street levellers you see have taken on groups of armed men without them pulling the trigger. Batman's little trip through Wonder Tower is proof of this.

Skip to 4:50. While Batman is standing there through Prof Strange's lecture, Wonder Tower guards with assault rifles, tazer's and riot shields come through and surround Bats. They clearly have the advantage over Bats in sheer numbers, firepower and surprise. Without commenting too much of the gameplay itself, Batman makes it by.

That is flat-out false. Almost every single time a superhero or supervillain goes against a group of armed guys, the armed guys get some shots off. And I'm confident the voters know this as well. And if they don't, I'd advise them to go find some Batman or Captain America respect thread on KMC Forums, and see for themselves.

Are you kidding me? You're using this as an example? That guy had all day to fire at Batman but didn't. He kept on cocking his rifle for no apparent reason. Well, actually there is a reason: the designers of the game didn't want to make it impossible for the player to win. So they made the soldier one of the noobiest of all time.

Also, Batman has dropped people with single hits before:

Skip to 2:40. Bats clearly drops three prisoners with single strikes. Also, 5 of Batman's punches doesn't take him 15 seconds to throw. Refer to the Batman vs Ra's Al Ghul fight I added in before.

Congratulations. Out of all of the fights Batman has in the Arkham series, you found one showing where he one-shots people; ignoring the fact that just about every other time he fights a group of thugs it takes him a couple of minutes to beat them.

Scan 1: There is no proof that the knife was made of Promethium and the knife was slicing Slade's armour pretty lightly. It was barely chipping away at it.

Scan 2: In this case, Batman does have the speed and skill to exploit the armour's weakness. I've already given proof of his forensic analysing abilities.

No proof? Sure. But it's very possible all the same. Grant is one of the best in the business and it's not far-fetched to think he'd have some of the best tools in the business.

No. Arkham Batman does not have tremendous superhuman speed. Nor does he have a katana.

Scan 4: I wouldn't consider it PIS. It's simple. The mesh of his armour isn't as potent as the armoured padding. Grant was barely chipping away at his amour and causing squirts of blood.

The mesh part has survived massive explosions. You'd think anything that durable would be resistant to bullets. I can't think of a single thing that wouldn't be. Another thing is that there undoubtedly would have been shrapnel shooting in all directions from said explosions. Yet the mesh part still wasn't pierced.

You still have to keep in mind that Grant has superhuman strength. While Bats only has peak human strength at best. Grant would have been throwing those knives at superhuman speeds. Meanwhile, Batman's batarangs are so slow that cannon fodder thugs can dodge them in the game (at least, in Arkham City they can. I dunno about Arkham Asylum). So you can't just assume that if DS was hit by batarangs, the same thing would happen. Because it certainly wouldn't it.

In regards to Batman's analysing ability. Mr Freeze's armour is way more complex than Slade's armour. There are at least seven different ways to take advantage of his armour. What makes Slade's armour so complex that Batman himself couldn't deduce its weak points? Moreover, Batman's batarangs should be sharp enough to take advantage of those points of weakness.

Skip to 11:45. Uses a batarang to cut the support of a heavy bell.

Seven different ways? What are you talking about? You've only mentioned how the mesh part part is weaker than the armored padding and that's it. There aren't seven different ways. And while Slade's armor isn't as complex, the analysis still isn't instantaneous.

A rope? That's probably pretty old? Seriously? This is supposed to impress me?

Batman would never get the chance to throw a batarang in the first place. But if he did, Slade easily has the reflexes to dodge it. Heck in the game average low-life thugs have the reflexes to dodge his batarangs. Furthermore, they'd still bounce off him like paper clips.

In regards to the EMP scan. That was good use of tactics. Other than that, the other two scans just show he's smart. Batman surpasses him in tactics. Just look at one of the many boss fights we have Batman in and in one way or another, we have to use tactics.

That first scan alone is more impressive than any of Batman's feats. Slade made a EMP device from nothing but scrap in seconds. He improvised. He didn't plan for a submarine to be accessible. But there you go. He forms a plan instantly and beats a metahuman. I fail to see how outsmarting moronic thugs and beating foes with gadgets that he so happens to have on him as better tactics than Deathstroke's.

Those three instances shows that Deathstroke is a genius in many aspects. Genius in planning, improvisation, tactics, and deductive reasoning. And I'd consider that prison feat a tactic feat as well.

Just because Slade can flick a paper clip at a fly doesn't mean his that good with guns. He hasn't shown such accuracy and Batman will be quick to disappear.

Ha! Right. Slade is better with paper clips, and that's why on nearly every mission he's armed with paper clips instead of guns. Oh wait. That's not true... Silly me...

How is this false? Slade has taken pretty much everything that has been thrown at him. Why wouldn't batarangs do something? Grant was able to slice his armour, batarangs can be used as a slicing device just as easy as blunt force. Did you watch the Killer Croc video? Croc is a 580 pound muscle, yet Bats can throw a batarang with enough force to knock that 580 pound of charging muscle into the water. Before you start saying "The electric shock knocked Croc into the water", note that in the opening scene of Arkham Asylum, Croc made an appearance and was shocked multiple times without much visible effect.

Not intentionally. All of those times he was tagged it was because the projectiles were either too fast for him to dodge, he was in a weakened state, and/or they were shot from behind. But none of those will be the case in this scenario.

Here's an idea. You watch the video. Killer Croc wasn't knocked off because of the force of the batarang. He was knocked off because the batarang punctured his shock collar, thus he was electrocuted and he stumbled off in pain.

Slade never out-muscled Legacy. He only outsmarted Legacy. Lets not forget the fact that Legacy was bullsh**ting around the majority of the fight. It was his own flaw that Slade won. Still as impressive? :P

I never said he did out-muscle Legacy. But outsmarting wasn't the only thing he did though. He was doing better combat-wise.

Read from right to left-- Deathstroke was landing the most hits at first. In fact, Legacy had no hits on Deathstroke until he threw the submarine at him. Slade was shaken up after that, and that's when Legacy got a temporary upper hand on him. But despite his weakened state, Deathstroke fought back soon afterwards. And you know what happens from there.

I find Deathstroke beating a 7000+ tonner who was playing him for a bit far more impressive than Batman beating a "5 tonner" (Honestly, I'd say he's more like a 2 tonner. He swung those steel balls with some effort.) who was serious.

Based off what?

Look at the victim disappear before Joker's thugs get off a shot. New 52 and Pre-52 Bats has done something likely as well.

In addition, Arkham Bats is arguably smarter than mainstream Bats.

Oh please. The thugs were distracted by the batarang. Comic Batman has disappeared literally right in front of people's eyes. Some of which were superhumans like The Flash.

And smarter? Ya no. Comic Batman has outsmarted genius-level intellect's like Lex Luthor before, and outsmarted the JLA if I remember correctly. He does nothing of the sort in the Arkham series.

I just want to summarize in depth why I still believe Batman wins.

  • I've proven Batman instinctively evades foes packing heat and with that (above scan) kind of disappearing act from opposite sides of the Eiffel Tower, I wouldn't doubt Batman's ability to go stealth before Slade recognizes that a man was just standing several meters away a moment ago.
  • Batman has analysed Mr Freeze's armour, which is more complex than Slade's armour. With Batman's level of intellect and tactical mind, I couldn't give a reason why deducing weak points in Slade's armour would be more problematic than Mr Freeze's armour.
  • Batman has a disruptor, a gadget that allows him to jam enemy firearms without them even knowing. This takes the fight to close quarters. Keep in mind Batman still has tabs on Slade due to his sonar.
  • Now with that out of the way, Batman has taken on a skilled swordsmen before and with the element of surprise, why can't he disarm Slade and bring the fight to a hand to hand confrontation.
  • I've shown Batman take out Penguin's thugs with ease. Slade has little to no hand to hand feats in the n52. With Batman's knowledge on Slade's weak points, Slade eventually goes down.

-He's never beaten anybody of New-52 Deathstroke's level, nor will he. And it'd be impossible for Batman to do a sneak attack on Slade do to Slade's enhanced senses, which I've already discussed. That's Sign of Ignorance #1.

-Batman won't have the time to make a plan.

-For the third time, that disruptor takes too long to work. He won't have the time. Sign of Ignorance #2.

-Because Slade is monumentally faster and more skilled than anyone Arkham Batman has taken on.

-Little to no H2H? Firstly, Slade won't need to go H2H on Batman. He has his guns and his sword to boot. Secondly:

Deathstroke beats Terra, Joseph, and Rose instantly. All three were completely owned with nothing but his H2H ability. Three superhumans. One who can control the earth from under his feet, one who has mind control abilities, and one who has precognition(?) and is also pretty damn skilled herself. Batman doesn't have anything close in comparison.

Time to make and reiterate some points of my own:

  • Batman himself admitted that he can't so much as take on four, armed, measly, untrained thugs straight on. Deathstroke has taken on larger, elite, black ops squads straight on and effortlessly. Furthermore, Deathstroke owned nine guys under a second. It takes Batman several minutes to do that in the game. So speed is largely in Deathstroke's favor.
  • Deathstroke has ripped off steel doors at high altitudes like nothing. At best, Batman has lifted up a man with an outstretched arm. So strength is also clearly in Deathstroke's favor.
  • Deathstroke has defeated 7000+ tonners with effort. Batman has defeated 2 tonners with effort. So physique and combat ability is largely in Deathstroke's favor.
  • Arkham Batman still lacks bullet-fast reflexes. So honestly, Deathstroke could just shoot Batman in the face before he knew what hit him.

Deathstroke is just on a completely different level than Arkham Batman (or any Batman for that matter) is.

OK. Do you wanna continue this dance or shall we start the voting? I'm fine with either.

#45 Posted by MonsterStomp (13340 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts

Gah! I hate myself for keep on countering responses after I say I'm done. But I can't resist. Here we go.

Same here, but this is about providing feasible proof as to why we think our champion would win. We may be at a disagreement but the point is, that this fight could go either way.

Been over this. New-52 Deathstroke has speed and strength feats Pre-52 Deathstroke could never perform.

Yes we have been over it. You haven't brought any evidence to the table in this regard. Show me something where n52 Slade negates something as much as a speed blitz from Kid Flash level speed. Show me something that tops Slade outpacing helicopters until he reaches a cliff edge. All you have shown is that Slade can close the gap and quickly handle fodder.

Pre-52 Slade denies Kid Flash speed blitz.

Pre-52 Slade outpaces an army convoy.

You continue to use pre-52 Deathstroke feats when we agreed you use n52 (reboot feats).

Are you kidding me? You're using this as an example? That guy had all day to fire at Batman but didn't. He kept on cocking his rifle for no apparent reason. Well, actually there is a reason: the designers of the game didn't want to make it impossible for the player to win. So they made the soldier one of the noobiest of all time.

You're using gameplay mechanics here. You can't judge that fight based on that gameplay alone. That player might be able to take them all flawlessly. Another player might be better with using batarangs and a batclaw to keep the armed men down. You can't take the way each individual plays the game seriously. All I'm saying is that, despite Batman being outnumbered, overpowered (in terms of firepower), and surrounded, Batman still fought through those guards. You can't progress without beating those guards. So that feat still stands. Batman took on armed guards.

Congratulations. Out of all of the fights Batman has in the Arkham series, you found one showing where he one-shots people; ignoring the fact that just about every other time he fights a group of thugs it takes him a couple of minutes to beat them.

Again, you're using gameplay mechanics. The designers want it to be fun and challenging, not some game where you can one-shot everyone. Also, refer to the video where Batman states "I eat punks like these for breakfast". The only contradiction is gameplay mechanics, which is non-applicable in debates. Everything else from the game to the tie-in comics are pretty consistent.

No proof? Sure. But it's very possible all the same. Grant is one of the best in the business and it's not far-fetched to think he'd have some of the best tools in the business.

No. Arkham Batman does not have tremendous superhuman speed. Nor does he have a katana.

1. We can't base the majority of what we see on assumptions.

2. Like I said, Batman's batarangs should suffice in cutting that mesh. It has been used as a lethal cutting tool such as cutting the rope supporting the bell. I don't know why you'd bring up an assumption such as the rope being weak, it's an Asylum, people work in the quarters below, why wouldn't it be sturdy?

The mesh part has survived massive explosions. You'd think anything that durable would be resistant to bullets. I can't think of a single thing that wouldn't be. Another thing is that there undoubtedly would have been shrapnel shooting in all directions from said explosions. Yet the mesh part still wasn't pierced.

You still have to keep in mind that Grant has superhuman strength. While Bats only has peak human strength at best. Grant would have been throwing those knives at superhuman speeds. Meanwhile, Batman's batarangs are so slow that cannon fodder thugs can dodge them in the game (at least, in Arkham City they can. I dunno about Arkham Asylum). So you can't just assume that if DS was hit by batarangs, the same thing would happen. Because it certainly wouldn't it.

1. Explosions are blunt force, something Slade's armour holds up against well. Though when faced with piercing and slash attacks, it's not so durable.

2. Doesn't really matter how fast Grant was throwing those knives. The fact is, the knife barely penetrated the mesh. And you're using gameplay mechanics again. Just because player (A) likes to throw batarangs at enemies that dodge his throws, means nothing. Gameplay mechanics are non-applicable.

Seven different ways? What are you talking about? You've only mentioned how the mesh part part is weaker than the armored padding and that's it. There aren't seven different ways. And while Slade's armor isn't as complex, the analysis still isn't instantaneous.

I was talking about Mr Freeze's armour. There are at least seven different ways to take advantage of it. Since you can't attack the same way twice. I was just saying how complex his armour is compared to Slade's. In all honesty, I don't know why Batman can't deduce the weak points himself. Batman has faced armoured foes before, and Slade's armour is just a steroided up version. Batman is smart enough to deduce it by himself.

A rope? That's probably pretty old? Seriously? This is supposed to impress me?

Batman would never get the chance to throw a batarang in the first place. But if he did, Slade easily has the reflexes to dodge it. Heck in the game average low-life thugs have the reflexes to dodge his batarangs. Furthermore, they'd still bounce off him like paper clips.

I've already countered this. Slade barely dodges anything in character.

That first scan alone is more impressive than any of Batman's feats. Slade made a EMP device from nothing but scrap in seconds. He improvised. He didn't plan for a submarine to be accessible. But there you go. He forms a plan instantly and beats a metahuman. I fail to see how outsmarting moronic thugs and beating foes with gadgets that he so happens to have on him as better tactics than Deathstroke's.

Those three instances shows that Deathstroke is a genius in many aspects. Genius in planning, improvisation, tactics, and deductive reasoning. And I'd consider that prison feat a tactic feat as well.

Slade is smart, no doubt. But that one EMP showing can't top everything Batman has done. In comparison, Batman has made his own Electrical Charge device on the field. Moreover, Slade didn't even know the EMP would work.

Skip to 7:50, Batman improvises and creates a new gadget right there. When Slade was in the prison, that was strategy. It was pre-planned. We got no prep here :P

Batman has more showings along side too. I've stated some above. Just holla if you want more but I don't think its necessary.

Ha! Right. Slade is better with paper clips, and that's why on nearly every mission he's armed with paper clips instead of guns. Oh wait. That's not true... Silly me...

Yeah, Slade has but one awesome showing and its with a paper clip, yet everything else we've seen is him pulling off pretty standard shots. Arkham Deadshot >>> n52 Slade in accuracy.

Not intentionally. All of those times he was tagged it was because the projectiles were either too fast for him to dodge, he was in a weakened state, and/or they were shot from behind. But none of those will be the case in this scenario.

I'd say its intentional. Slade vs Killswitch, Slade presses the detonator himself. Slade vs Legacy, Slade sees a giant submarine coming out from the water, and even with his enhanced mind, just stands there waiting to tank it. Then I've shown that random chick shooting Slade. I'd say he relies too much on his armour.

Here's an idea. You watch the video. Killer Croc wasn't knocked off because of the force of the batarang. He was knocked off because the batarang punctured his shock collar, thus he was electrocuted and he stumbled off in pain.

Fair enough, but I'd argue that the batarang did pack some sort of punch. If you've seen Croc's first appearance in Asylum, his shock collar doesn't do much at all.

I find Deathstroke beating a 7000+ tonner who was playing him for a bit far more impressive than Batman beating a "5 tonner" (Honestly, I'd say he's more like a 2 tonner. He swung those steel balls with some effort.) who was serious.

It's not what you beat, its how you beat it. Slade depowered a Legacy that was bullsh*tting around the majority of the fight. In comparison, Batman was constantly depowering Grundy (5 ton at least), avoiding wrecking balls and so on. Even at one point, Batman escaped Grundy's grip. Who's really more impressive? Slade fighting a Legacy who was holding back and winning via EMP? Or Batman in a prolonged fight with a 5 tonner, depowering him 3 or 4 times, and escape his grip? and straight after, beating Penguin after avoiding mini rockets?

Oh please. The thugs were distracted by the batarang. Comic Batman has disappeared literally right in front of people's eyes. Some of which were superhumans like The Flash.

And smarter? Ya no. Comic Batman has outsmarted genius-level intellect's like Lex Luthor before, and outsmarted the JLA if I remember correctly. He does nothing of the sort in the Arkham series.

1. Joker was distracted. There is no proof the thugs were distracted.

2. Got any mainstream Batman's intellect feats? I'll give you a list of what Arkham Batman has done:

  • Tracing blood samples
  • Tracking alcohol dispersed into the atmosphere
  • Tracking fingerprints
  • Calculating trajectory
  • Creating a Titan cure
  • Tracking the whereabouts of Freeze's lab via cold spots
  • Hacking into TYGA guard helicopters
  • Review the Hush missions, Batman gives detailed analysis on the victims.

There are so many instances, which is why I said arguably.

  • Batman himself admitted that he can't so much as take on four, armed, measly, untrained thugs straight on. Deathstroke has taken on larger, elite, black ops squads straight on and effortlessly. Furthermore, Deathstroke owned nine guys under a second. It takes Batman several minutes to do that in the game. So speed is largely in Deathstroke's favor.

He never said he couldn't do it. He said it was suicide. It says more about his instinctive tactics than anything else, which is why stealth is a viable strategy. Speed is largely in Slade's favour due to him closing the gap and taking out fodder quickly? Doubt it.

  • Deathstroke has ripped off steel doors at high altitudes like nothing. At best, Batman has lifted up a man with an outstretched arm. So strength is also clearly in Deathstroke's favor.

Slade is around 5 ton strength. Batman has outmuscled Grundy's grip who is also a 5 tonner. Batman still stands a chance here.

  • Deathstroke has defeated 7000+ tonners with effort. Batman has defeated 2 tonners with effort. So physique and combat ability is largely in Deathstroke's favor.

Deathstroke defeated one 7000+ tonner, who was holding back so much. You're overrating the feat there.

  • Arkham Batman still lacks bullet-fast reflexes. So honestly, Deathstroke could just shoot Batman in the face before he knew what hit him.

False. Batman disappears as soon as he knows Deathstroke is packing heat. Slade lacks accuracy feats.

I'm done. I've addressed all your points. We may be in disagreement, but the point is, Batman does have a chance in winning. You can reply but make sure I open votes after.

Batman wins via stealth, plan, disarm and attack.

#46 Posted by Wolverine08 (27364 posts) - - Show Bio

So voting is open?

Online
#47 Posted by Cable_Extreme (6913 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a great debate, Deathstroke new 52 argued to his potential against Arkam Batman who is outclassed (at first glance). Can Monsterstomp provide enough? I am going to read the debate, tell me when voting opens @monsterstomp @fetts

#48 Edited by Fetts (4095 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp

Same here, but this is about providing feasible proof as to why we think our champion would win. We may be at a disagreement but the point is, that this fight could go either way.

Indeed. But I still believe New-52 Slade would utterly destroy Arkham Batman.

Yes we have been over it. You haven't brought any evidence to the table in this regard. Show me something where n52 Slade negates something as much as a speed blitz from Kid Flash level speed. Show me something that tops Slade outpacing helicopters until he reaches a cliff edge. All you have shown is that Slade can close the gap and quickly handle fodder.

I am well aware of Pre-52 Deathstroke's capabilities. I have at least a hundred scans of him on my desktop. Maybe even two hundred.

One, Deathstroke tagging Kid Flash, or any Flash for that matter is commonly accepted as PIS. There's only one instance of Slade tagging Flash that's arguably not PIS, but Flash wasn't moving at lightspeed. Two, Deathstroke was by no means outpacing the chopper. The helicopter was closing in on him easily but he destroyed it. I've already compared both Deathstrokes' travel speed, and have proven that New-52 Deathstroke's is better.

At least Slade actually takes his fodder out quickly. And you're generalizing. Speed blitzing an elite black ops team before they even react and taking out nine terrorists with individual strokes before they can even pull the trigger is ridiculous speed. Arkham Batman has never dealt with speed anything near that.

You continue to use pre-52 Deathstroke feats when we agreed you use n52 (reboot feats).

I'm well aware that this is New-52 Deathstroke. I'm just comparing him to his Pre-52 counterpart, who can own a superior version of Batman with ease.

You're using gameplay mechanics here. You can't judge that fight based on that gameplay alone. That player might be able to take them all flawlessly. Another player might be better with using batarangs and a batclaw to keep the armed men down. You can't take the way each individual plays the game seriously. All I'm saying is that, despite Batman being outnumbered, overpowered (in terms of firepower), and surrounded, Batman still fought through those guards. You can't progress without beating those guards. So that feat still stands. Batman took on armed guards.

That's exactly my point. You said:

The majority of street levellers you see have taken on groups of armed men without them pulling the trigger. Batman's little trip through Wonder Tower is proof of this.

And then used that video as a pathetic attempt to say "Oh Batman's so fast, he can take out an armed guard before he can pull the trigger", when that had absolutely nothing to do with Arkham Batman's speed, and everything to do with the gameplay mechanics and how the game developers made a guard who takes like 30 seconds to shoot and won't stop reloading for no apparent reason.

I am in no way arguing that Batman didn't take out those guards (even though it would have taken DS seconds whereas it took Batman minutes). I'm just saying that if it weren't for gameplay mechanics, and had the game developers made a more realistic armed guard, Batman would have been shot instantly.

1. We can't base the majority of what we see on assumptions.

2. Like I said, Batman's batarangs should suffice in cutting that mesh. It has been used as a lethal cutting tool such as cutting the rope supporting the bell. I don't know why you'd bring up an assumption such as the rope being weak, it's an Asylum, people work in the quarters below, why wouldn't it be sturdy?

Omw, it's not a freaking assumption. I'm not assuming that it is Promethium. I'm just acknowledging the likelihood that it certainly could be (not would be) based on certain facts. There's a difference.

Because it's a rope! Just about any cutting tool can slice a rope. Sure it might not be weak enough to snap based on tension. But compared to a cutting tool? No crap it's going to break!

And you're still assuming Batman could even get a batarang out. Or that Deathstroke couldn't dodge it with the upmost ease (seeing how a regular fat low-life can dodge batarangs in the games). Or that Deathstroke armor hasn't sustained far worse than batarangs.

1. Explosions are blunt force, something Slade's armour holds up against well. Though when faced with piercing and slash attacks, it's not so durable.

2. Doesn't really matter how fast Grant was throwing those knives. The fact is, the knife barely penetrated the mesh. And you're using gameplay mechanics again. Just because player (A) likes to throw batarangs at enemies that dodge his throws, means nothing. Gameplay mechanics are non-applicable.

Shrapnel would be piercing as well. And again, anything that is that resistant to concussive force is almost always resistant to piercing attacks. I really can't think of a single thing that wouldn't be.

It does matter. Grant could throw those knives with enough force to penetrate the armor. But Batman can't throw his batarangs with enough force to penetrate the armor. And general stuff in gameplay mechanics do count. You can't just assume Batman can throw batarangs faster than bullets travel. There has to be some type of standard in terms of the batarang's speed. And there is one. The one that's been displayed throughout the series. The batarang speed that can still be dodged by common, mediocre criminals. That's like me saying the speed of Batman's "punching bag" move is nothing but gameplay mechanics and shouldn't be taken seriously.

I was talking about Mr Freeze's armour. There are at least seven different ways to take advantage of it. Since you can't attack the same way twice. I was just saying how complex his armour is compared to Slade's. In all honesty, I don't know why Batman can't deduce the weak points himself. Batman has faced armoured foes before, and Slade's armour is just a steroided up version. Batman is smart enough to deduce it by himself.

Ah.

I still disagree. In fact, it's rather convenient for me that Arkham Origins came out recently. If you haven't played it yet (this goes for all of you voters out there as well), I suggest you don't watch the video unless you don't mind the boss battle being spoiled for you.

Here, Batman finds no weaknesses in Deathstroke's armor, which has a similar design to New-52 Deathstroke's armor. He has to fight through Arkham Deathstroke with nothing but skill. No exploiting-weaknesses-type stuff.

I know it might not be fair to use an earlier version of Batman. But the difference in tactics and intellect is slim at best.

I fail to see how you're supposed to get through Deathstroke's armor. You're firstly assuming Arkham Batman has the deductive reasoning that the mesh part is the weakest point. Something that you have not proven. You're then assuming batarangs can penetrate this armor based on the sole fact that it can cut through rope... Which is nothing a steak knife couldn't do. It took a katana backed up by superhuman momentum and force to cut through that stuff. A batarang wouldn't have a prayer.

And all of this is assuming Batman would get a batarang off in the first place. You haven't even provided a legitimate answer as to why New-52 Deathstroke couldn't shoot Arkham Batman square in the jaw.

I've already countered this. Slade barely dodges anything in character.

That's because, for the majority of the time, Slade is so fast that there's nothing to dodge by the time he's done. Which isn't something that can be said for most street-levelers.

Slade is smart, no doubt. But that one EMP showing can't top everything Batman has done. In comparison, Batman has made his own Electrical Charge device on the field. Moreover, Slade didn't even know the EMP would work.

Skip to 7:50, Batman improvises and creates a new gadget right there. When Slade was in the prison, that was strategy. It was pre-planned. We got no prep here :P

Slade's EMP feat is far more impressive than that. Batman just saw pieces that so happen to fit with something in his utility belt. Slade had to run around, get particular "ingredients" from a submarine of all things, think of what's conductive, and which item will have what effect, etc. All to make one neat science project that leveled an entire shipyard. All within seconds.

Batman has more showings along side too. I've stated some above. Just holla if you want more but I don't think its necessary.

Outsmarting regular, moronic thugs? That's supposed to top Deathstroke's intellect? Seriously?

Yeah, Slade has but one awesome showing and its with a paper clip, yet everything else we've seen is him pulling off pretty standard shots. Arkham Deadshot >>> n52 Slade in accuracy.

I beg to differ.

You see that palace in wayyy over there? Ya. That's where Deathstroke was. The guy was like 10 miles away. Do you have any idea how much skill and accuracy it takes to make a shot like that? He had to calculate the wind trajectory, wind speed, power of his rifle, distance, altitude, etc. All within very little time, as he had no idea where precisely the dude would be standing. With no tools at all. He makes a headshot! Nothing but pure accuracy and skill. Inferior to Arkham Deadshot my arse. If Deathstroke can make a shot like that with a sniper, he could certainly make a 100 ft. shot(?)-- with an assault rifle or even a pistol.

Furthermore, Batman had to take Arkham Deadshot with stealth. Something he won't be able to do with New-52 Deathstroke for reasons already explained.

I'd say its intentional. Slade vs Killswitch, Slade presses the detonator himself. Slade vs Legacy, Slade sees a giant submarine coming out from the water, and even with his enhanced mind, just stands there waiting to tank it. Then I've shown that random chick shooting Slade. I'd say he relies too much on his armour

The Killswitch "fight" quote on quote? Deathstroke was clearly playing with him. Also, since he was just playing with him he didn't even use his speed to his full potential. And yet:

There's your bullet-dodging feat.

As for the submarine feat, he didn't tank the mass of the submarine. Otherwise he would have been trapped under it. He did however tank the massive shockwave and explosion. I already explained this. As for the "random chick thing", I love how you leave out the pages prior to it in a pathetic attempt to lowball Slade, and make Slade look pathetic. That makes you look pretty bad to the viewers my friend. This is why Slade didn't dodge the bullet...

Slade was already gushing blood from his encounter with Grant. The guy was like half-dead, and it was an effort for him to even stand. But he goes on and kills the two people. Yes, he got shot. But understandably so.

Fair enough, but I'd argue that the batarang did pack some sort of punch. If you've seen Croc's first appearance in Asylum, his shock collar doesn't do much at all.

You'd have to show me what you're talking about with that second part. But it doesn't matter. The only punch the batarang had was when it punctured the shock collar. That is all. The only reason why Croc fell down was because he was shocked with pain (pun intended). The cutscene makes that clear.

It's not what you beat, its how you beat it. Slade depowered a Legacy that was bullsh*tting around the majority of the fight. In comparison, Batman was constantly depowering Grundy (5 ton at least), avoiding wrecking balls and so on. Even at one point, Batman escaped Grundy's grip. Who's really more impressive? Slade fighting a Legacy who was holding back and winning via EMP? Or Batman in a prolonged fight with a 5 tonner, depowering him 3 or 4 times, and escape his grip? and straight after, beating Penguin after avoiding mini rockets?

BSing? Ya no. Legacy was getting his butt kicked by Slade, claimed that he was a challenge, threw a submarine at him, threw him around, and stabbed him with his own sword. Does that sound like BSing for the majority of the fight? Absolutely not. The only time he was quote on quote "BSing" him was when they were talking about his daughter or whatever. That's it.

Batman beat a "5 tonner", who was swinging wrecking balls with little speed, escaped his grip (that takes a degree of strength I'll give you that), and so on. Again, even if Legacy was holding back that much, there's no way it was to the point of him practically being a 5 tonner. That'd be like fighting Slade with his fingernail. Legacy is way too strong to hold back that much. But again, Legacy wasn't holding back as much as you say he was.

1. Joker was distracted. There is no proof the thugs were distracted.

2. Got any mainstream Batman's intellect feats? I'll give you a list of what Arkham Batman has done:

  • Tracing blood samples
  • Tracking alcohol dispersed into the atmosphere
  • Tracking fingerprints
  • Calculating trajectory
  • Creating a Titan cure
  • Tracking the whereabouts of Freeze's lab via cold spots
  • Hacking into TYGA guard helicopters
  • Review the Hush missions, Batman gives detailed analysis on the victims.

There are so many instances, which is why I said arguably.

Oh what? The thugs completely ignored a random and unexpected batarang? That's what you're telling me?

Intellect????? That's not intellect! All of those feats were accomplished primarily because of his technology! Not his intellect!

Even still, I've already given you feats. The guy came up with a way to beat the JLA, which consists of people who can bust planets up and move at the speed of light. That feat alone completely annihilates that list. The guy has also outsmarted genius level intellects like Lex Luthor. The best Arkham Batman has done apparently is outsmarting mediocre thugs.

False. Batman disappears as soon as he knows Deathstroke is packing heat.

Batman would be dead before he even knew what Slade was packing.

My conclusion still stands:

My Conclusion

Deathstroke's physicals are far, far superior to Batman's. Batman's stealth skills are completely negated because he'll never get the chance to use them. And there is not single piece of equipment in Batman's belt that has a hope of effecting Deathstroke. Honestly, I see this battle ending a lot like this:

Watch from 0:38-0:47

Or if you prefer the more anticlimactic approach, Deathstroke shoots Batman through the mouth. Game over.

I'm done. I've addressed all your points. We may be in disagreement, but the point is, Batman does have a chance in winning. You can reply but make sure I open votes after.

Excellent! Am I to assume you won't make a counter?

#49 Edited by Supersaiyan_Danger (722 posts) - - Show Bio

Monsterstomp is bringing up surprisingly good points, but I still think New52 Slade could win this.

#50 Posted by Deathstroke19 (3707 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: wow i almost forgot about this thread. Let me know when voting is open.

P.S. Hows your ex?