Uzumaki Naruto is one of the last surviving members of the Uzumaki clan, a ninja of the Hidden Village of Konoha in the Fire Country. He is a second generation Jinchuuriki, passed down directly from his mother Uzumaki Kushina. He had a troubled life growing up, but has since matured and made lots of friends. He learned to utilize and control Kurama and later on, even became the Jinchurikki of the 9 tailed beasts and inherited one half of the powers of the Sage of the Six paths, the Senjutsu of the Six paths.
Strength
- Sage Mode gives Naruto massive physical strength. Naruto casually stopped a giant rhino charging at him and threw it high into the air.
Gallery
One-hit KO!
Speed
- Naruto is as fast as his father is, without using Hiraishin seals. Dodged Raikage with his speed.
Gallery
Durability
- Blocked one of Raikage's punches without a scratch. Raikage is strong enough to contend with a Jinchurikki head on and break mountains with his punches.
Current Senjutsu of the six paths sage mode gives Naruto all the benefits of the chakra cloak mode and sage mode combined into one. On top of that, he is also able to fly. These are just the basics. It should suffice for an intro.
As one of the Surviving members of Ala Rubra, he had the most Enemy takedowns in the Great imperial War of the entire group even more than Nagi, the Thousand master. His strength is legendary, his stupidity contagious. He can't be stopped if you stab him a thousand times. He is the definition of HYPE. He tutored the Main character of the Series, Negi, in Combat Magic and even after he died, He WILLED HIMSELF BACK TO LIFE in order to help out in the final fight. So I ask, are you HYPE?
Strength
One of his punches while "holding Back" Shook nearly an entire Block of a city.
Gallery
Note, That when he learned he would be facing Rakan in a tournament, We learn this about Rakan
Speed
He was able to casually react to Lightning speed Negi-Granted it by figuring out How he moves and reading the Slight changes in pressure. but i don't think that really decreases the feat in any significant way, Do you?
Gallery
Also capable of throwing a massive amount of those monster like punches in a single instant, whilst severely injured in all of his limbs.
Gallery
Durability
Lets just get this out of the way, the Pummeling he took from Negi, each punch was around Large building>small hill level.
Gallery
But how does he take it? LAUGHING of course!...but then he serious'd
Gallery
Even when Negi later takes Rakans own strength, he still takes the hits smiling.
Strength, Speed, Battle genius, Durability. hes got it all, and finally his Paction is a ace in the whole specialty.
Armiger Milliplex: His artifact is called Ho Heroes Meta Chilion Prosopon (The Hero Of a Thousand Faces). His artifact can transform into any type of weapon at his will. In his words his artifact can transform into "any shape imaginable", from multiple weapons of any kind to armor (which can act as replacement limbs if need be).
Gallery
So, how does Naruto deal with this Boss Level character?
@funsiized: Haha. He's pretty impressive. But there are some flaws to his actual speed.
A: He could not react to Negi's lightning. B: He only predicted Negi's trajectory and destination which allowed him to dodge and counter attack. C: Nothing else quantifies.
I almost feel like spamming Bijuu Dama's here. XD
Well, you should know fairly well enough by now that Naruto is faster. He is faster than Bee, someone who can do exactly what Rakan did (predict the destination of Minato's FTG technique), and kept up with a Sharingan adept like Itachi with ease. Raikage's lightning speed is a thing of the past for Naruto.
FTG technique is a lightspeed technique. Here's the proof. Minato and Tobirama working in harmony to attack Obito who was pretty much avoiding or blocking attacks otherwise.
Needless to say, when Madara became the sage, he had little no difficulty reacting to Minato or Tobirama. And then, Sasuke goes and becomes even faster than Madara. Naruto acquires equal to speed to Madara.
That means, Rakan is slower than Naruto by a mile.
A well placed Rasenshuriken of this size, which does cellular level damage will effectively break down Rakan. If one does not work, there's always a Bijuu dama from the second through nine tailed beasts (we never saw a one tail bijuu dama but the sealing rasengan thing). Or just spamming the above said Rasenshuriken works.
B: He only predicted Negi's trajectory and destination which allowed him to dodge and counter attack.
C: Nothing else quantifies.
Err, he was able to sense the change in the air and respond accordingly...is that not the definition of the word
Yes, but that only worked when countering Negis charge ins. his punches are the same speed, and Rakan was casually deflecting those as well at that distance, his anticipation was near pointless when added tot he equation. it only told him where to put his fist, the rest was all him.
Not sure what that means.
For more example of Rakans speed, he was able to get away from Evangelines Grand spell, a Lightning speed Tracking spell that was able to catch Multiple opponents.
And he was able to Tag Fate Averruncus multiple Times as i showed above, Fate has not only Fought and counteracted Negis Lightning speed, he has Fought and downright defeated a Lightning speed opponent besides Negi. Everything really just keeps adding up to proves Rakans speed, i don't know where your disagreeing with. Hes not exactly lightning speed, be he is god damn close. to point where you can't even differ the two.
Well, you should know fairly well enough by now that Naruto is faster. He is faster than Bee, someone who can do exactly what Rakan did (predict the destination of Minato's FTG technique), and kept up with a Sharingan adept like Itachi with ease. Raikage's lightning speed is a thing of the past for Naruto.
Not the same thing at all.
Bee is able to keep up with Minatos movements cause Minato himself is not moving at the speed of light, lol. FTG is Teleportation, not high speed movement. That's why it's categorized as a space-time Jutsu. By your logic, everyone who has reacted to Nightcrawler is a lightspeeder.
Raikage doesn't move at the speed of lightning, only lightning like speed. Negi literally turns himself into lightning, irrefutable is his speed, Refutable, is yours.
FTG technique is a lightspeed technique. Here's the proof. Minato and Tobirama working in harmony to attack Obito who was pretty much avoiding or blocking attacks otherwise.
Needless to say, when Madara became the sage, he had little no difficulty reacting to Minato or Tobirama. And then, Sasuke goes and becomes even faster than Madara. Naruto acquires equal to speed to Madara.
Again, not light speed, Teleportation. Also, due to the nature of the Technique, you can even predict where they are going to teleport to, allowing you to predict their moves, and therefore, their actions. Even narrowing the Effectiveness of the technique. Not similar to Negis lightning Tech, as Negi is able to change trajectory at a moments notice.
A well placed Rasenshuriken of this size, which does cellular level damage will effectively break down Rakan. If one does not work, there's always a Bijuu dama from the second through nine tailed beasts (we never saw a one tail bijuu dama but the sealing rasengan thing). Or just spamming the above said Rasenshuriken works.
Ehh, We are assuming the Rasen Hits, and that's a big assumption in an of itself. We are talking about a guy who willed him self back into existence, and shouted his way out of Dimension. Not to mention, Tanked Negis full on assault, even after he had Taken Rakan Maxiumum power..
Gallery
And as you can see, Procedded to get HYPE. after of course he had taken even thousands of blows from NEgi with his strength. Considering Base Negi(in strength alone) is >= Sage Naruto, Raisen Negi>>Current Naruto, and Rakan empowered Raisen Negi is >> Raisen Negi. I'm not really fearing Naruto.
Rakan has him trumped in physical capability. hes more skilled, has better experience, and is downright a Better fighter.. Should he lose a limb, he simply makes a new one. He himself has many ways to finish of Naruto,(besides his multitude of punches that i have shown)
Such as "Negi Fever"
O simply Skewering him with his many blades.
Gallery
It broils down to if Naruto can even breath to get an attack out, and i think not. and assuming he can. I doubt it would be a deciding factor.
B: He only predicted Negi's trajectory and destination which allowed him to dodge and counter attack.
C: Nothing else quantifies.
Err, he was able to sense the change in the air and respond accordingly...is that not the definition of the word
Yes, but that only worked when countering Negis charge ins. his punches are the same speed, and Rakan was casually deflecting those as well at that distance, his anticipation was near pointless when added tot he equation. it only told him where to put his fist, the rest was all him.
Not sure what that means.
For more example of Rakans speed, he was able to get away from Evangelines Grand spell, a Lightning speed Tracking spell that was able to catch Multiple opponents.
And he was able to Tag Fate Averruncus multiple Times as i showed above, Fate has not only Fought and counteracted Negis Lightning speed, he has Fought and downright defeated a Lightning speed opponent besides Negi. Everything really just keeps adding up to proves Rakans speed, i don't know where your disagreeing with. Hes not exactly lightning speed, be he is god damn close. to point where you can't even differ the two.
Well, you should know fairly well enough by now that Naruto is faster. He is faster than Bee, someone who can do exactly what Rakan did (predict the destination of Minato's FTG technique), and kept up with a Sharingan adept like Itachi with ease. Raikage's lightning speed is a thing of the past for Naruto.
Not the same thing at all.
Bee is able to keep up with Minatos movements cause Minato himself is not moving at the speed of light, lol. FTG is Teleportation, not high speed movement. That's why it's categorized as a space-time Jutsu. By your logic, everyone who has reacted to Nightcrawler is a lightspeeder.
Raikage doesn't move at the speed of lightning, only lightning like speed. Negi literally turns himself into lightning, irrefutable is his speed, Refutable, is yours.
FTG technique is a lightspeed technique. Here's the proof. Minato and Tobirama working in harmony to attack Obito who was pretty much avoiding or blocking attacks otherwise.
Needless to say, when Madara became the sage, he had little no difficulty reacting to Minato or Tobirama. And then, Sasuke goes and becomes even faster than Madara. Naruto acquires equal to speed to Madara.
Again, not light speed, Teleportation. Also, due to the nature of the Technique, you can even predict where they are going to teleport to, allowing you to predict their moves, and therefore, their actions. Even narrowing the Effectiveness of the technique. Not similar to Negis lightning Tech, as Negi is able to change trajectory at a moments notice.
A well placed Rasenshuriken of this size, which does cellular level damage will effectively break down Rakan. If one does not work, there's always a Bijuu dama from the second through nine tailed beasts (we never saw a one tail bijuu dama but the sealing rasengan thing). Or just spamming the above said Rasenshuriken works.
Ehh, We are assuming the Rasen Hits, and that's a big assumption in an of itself. We are talking about a guy who willed him self back into existence, and shouted his way out of Dimension. Not to mention, Tanked Negis full on assault, even after he had Taken Rakan Maxiumum power..
And as you can see, Procedded to get HYPE. after of course he had taken even thousands of blows from NEgi with his strength. Considering Base Negi(in strength alone) is >= Sage Naruto, Raisen Negi>>Current Naruto, and Rakan empowered Raisen Negi is >> Raisen Negi. I'm not really fearing Naruto.
Rakan has him trumped in physical capability. hes more skilled, has better experience, and is downright a Better fighter.. Should he lose a limb, he simply makes a new one. He himself has many ways to finish of Naruto,(besides his multitude of punches that i have shown)
Such as "Negi Fever"
O simply Skewering him with his many blades.
It broils down to if Naruto can even breath to get an attack out, and i think not. and assuming he can. I doubt it would be a deciding factor.
1. I mean this:
Rakan could not react to Negi's speed. There is no other evidence (that you showed me anyway), that places Rakan as being able to react to lightning. But following the method of prediction like Bee, he has shown to be able to react to this speed.
2. I don't see Rakan parrying the blows at all.
Gallery
See? Not parrying at all. At the very least, not before Rakan decided to predict Negi's movement.
This of course as you can guess applied to not just Neji's lunging attacks but the blows Rakan parried earlier.
3. That means, the quantification with speed and reaction time is off. Someone decisively slower than Negi can still react to him. There's no factor otherwise to determine what Rakan's actual speed is.
For more example of Rakans speed, he was able to get away from Evangelines Grand spell, a Lightning speed Tracking spell that was able to catch Multiple opponents.
So tell me: How exactly does the speed of the said technique quantify? Do we have any feats, scales, or speed feats for the people who got caught to say the "spell" is lightning speed?
And he was able to Tag Fate Averruncus multiple Times as i showed above, Fate has not only Fought and counteracted Negis Lightning speed, he has Fought and downright defeated a Lightning speed opponent besides Negi. Everything really just keeps adding up to proves Rakans speed, i don't know where your disagreeing with. Hes not exactly lightning speed, be he is god damn close. to point where you can't even differ the two.
Haha. No. This is my point. He is not lightning speed. He is well below it.
Not the same thing at all.
Bee is able to keep up with Minatos movements cause Minato himself is not moving at the speed of light, lol. FTG is Teleportation, not high speed movement. That's why it's categorized as a space-time Jutsu. By your logic, everyone who has reacted to Nightcrawler is a lightspeeder.
Raikage doesn't move at the speed of lightning, only lightning like speed. Negi literally turns himself into lightning, irrefutable is his speed, Refutable, is yours.
Not quite. You missed the point. FTG teleportation = lightspeed. Agreed, yes? Naruto has moved at the same speed when dodging Raikage. This is in the first post I posted.
Also, Raikage is lightning speed. He dodges Amaterasu (technique that travels at the speed of eye blink) without difficulty. He can even survive lightspeed teleportation (when he went from HQ to battlefield, this proves he is accustomed to travelling at that speeds, where Tsunade's body was damaged but healed due to Byakugo).
Obito also blocked Amaterasu with ease. Meaning Obito back then was going at around Raikage's own speed or much greater, seeing as how he could still react to Minato.
As far as Nightcrawler goes, that's nowhere close to being instant. Nightcrawler goes through this brimstone dimension to appear at a target destination. And, he has never shown lightspeed teleportation prowess.
Again, not light speed, Teleportation. Also, due to the nature of the Technique, you can even predict where they are going to teleport to, allowing you to predict their moves, and therefore, their actions. Even narrowing the Effectiveness of the technique. Not similar to Negis lightning Tech, as Negi is able to change trajectory at a moments notice.
In both the mentioned cases, yes; but only if the user has lightning level speed like that of Bee or Raikage. Raikage couldn't move because Minato moved to a marker he did not know about that was placed on Bee's tail.
Minato's personal speed is also nothing to laugh about. If you watch the fight back in Raikage's prime, the Kunai Minato threw on Raikage's back (hence Minato could himself react to lightning+ speeds) was precisely on time for Minato to FTG to t he tree to Raikage's back to deliver a strike. Your logic is faulty precisely because of this. Because if Minato had normal human speed, he should not be able to utilize the technique against someone as fast as Raikage A.
Loading Video...
Ehh, We are assuming the Rasen Hits, and that's a big assumption in an of itself. We are talking about a guy who willed him self back into existence, and shouted his way out of Dimension. Not to mention, Tanked Negis full on assault, even after he had Taken Rakan Maxiumum power..
No? You know Naruto can go destroy an area the size of a country casually? Ha. (kidding) Besides, Naruto has a sealing technique to get by without actually killing Rakan.
With how much speed Rakan has shown, its highly unlikely he can avoid being hit by Naruto. This happens.
Loading Video...
Loading Video...
Heck Naruto win simply going 6 tails berserk mode.
Loading Video...
Naruto took an incomplete Bijuu Dama to his face and survived without effect.
And as you can see, Procedded to get HYPE. after of course he had taken even thousands of blows from NEgi with his strength. Considering Base Negi(in strength alone) is >= Sage Naruto, Raisen Negi>>Current Naruto, and Rakan empowered Raisen Negi is >> Raisen Negi. I'm not really fearing Naruto.
Rakan has him trumped in physical capability. hes more skilled, has better experience, and is downright a Better fighter.. Should he lose a limb, he simply makes a new one. He himself has many ways to finish of Naruto,(besides his multitude of punches that i have shown)
Such as "Negi Fever"
O simply Skewering him with his many blades.
It broils down to if Naruto can even breath to get an attack out, and i think not. and assuming he can. I doubt it would be a deciding factor.
That mountain buster (didnt destroy the full mountain too) is not too impressive. I've countered other points.
This of course as you can guess applied to not just Neji's lunging attacks but the blows Rakan parried earlier.
That means, the quantification with speed and reaction time is off. Someone decisively slower than Negi can still react to him. There's no factor otherwise to determine what Rakan's actual speed is.
Here's how Negis Raisen Shundo Works, I will also interject Rakans Method for countering it in bold.
Using Air Magic, he creates Positive Streamers at target location, these Streamers Move at the speed of Electricity
Rakan Senses the Streamers location around him with instinct
Negi converts into electricity, which may very well be instantaneous Rakan Begins Moving to counteract
Negi travels along aforementioned Streamers. Obv, he travels at the speed of lightning.
Rakans punch is nearly done, or done
This is the only logical course of events, using this and applying it to The fact that Negis Punches went under the same effect. We find that even though he is predicting the Location of Negis punches, the fact that he is able to Move his body fact enough to be there from roughly a foot away, while it does not put him at Lightning speed(as I said earlier) it puts him on such a level that it's pointless to divi and divide.
Your argument is His Awareness of where Negi is going to be completely destroys his speed. My argument is that Knowing where Lightning is going to strike doesn't mean you can stop it. It takes it's own level of Speed and strength to be able to do anything about it.
Your argument is that Bee and the like Reacting to FTG Equates this situation. It does not, as they are two different things. Negi is punching at the speed of lightning, Minato and the like are punching at whatever their speed may be. Certainly not light speed and most definitely not proven to be lightning.
And again, Rakan was able to pummel/ blitz Fate, who did This to a lightning speed opponent(Using the same tech as Negi)
Gallery
It's up to you to accept this or not.
So tell me: How exactly does the speed of the said technique quantify? Do we have any feats, scales, or speed feats for the people who got caught to say the "spell" is lightning speed?
Evangeline's Description of the spell itself. And the Averuncus it is shown catching in my scan above, is using Negis Raisen Technique. and as such is obv Lightning speed.
Gallery
Haha. No. This is my point. He is not lightning speed. He is well below it.
Barely*
Not quite. You missed the point. FTG teleportation = lightspeed. Agreed, yes? Naruto has moved at the same speed when dodging Raikage. This is in the first post I posted.
Teleportation is actually Faster than light speed, Look at Goku Regardless. Naruto moved at what appeared to be the same speed, simply because he is faster than they are used to. He moved five feet instantly, THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM LIGHTSPEED. Instantaneous movement(Literally called that) is a Basic as hell technique in the Negima universe.
Gallery
and it is literally the exact same thing that you are showing me. Naruto going 7-10m instantly.
Also, Raikage is lightning speed. He dodges Amaterasu (technique that travels at the speed of eye blink) without difficulty.
Blink of an eye makes you far from Lightning speed.
Rakan Dodged Code of the Life Maker(a Life wiping Device That works instantly), multiple times.
Gallery
Unlike Amaterasu, there is no build up. simply poof and you cease to exist. So Rakans Faster than Raikage/Obito, etc, Yeah?
He can even survive lightspeed teleportation (when he went from HQ to battlefield, this proves he is accustomed to travelling at that speeds, where Tsunade's body was damaged but healed due to Byakugo).
Uh, no lol. Him surviving teleportation means nothing besides he a total tank. And again, it's not light speed, its technically faster, but that's besides the point. It's simply opening a portal from one place in "Space" to another. No real Movement is involved, stop acting like it.
As far as Nightcrawler goes, that's nowhere close to being instant. Nightcrawler goes through this brimstone dimension to appear at a target destination. And, he has never shown lightspeed teleportation prowess.
It was an example i hoped you would be familiar with. and for one, the travel time between the brimstone Dimension is instantaneous from out plane of view. His teleportation has and always will be regarded as instant, but that's something for another day.
I could have just as easily Referenced Pixie, or The Stalkers from Starcraft with Blink, or BLINK, on and on. My point remains, being able to react to a teleporter, NO MATTER HOW "INSTANT" it may be, does not Make one a light speedster. Neither does being a teleporter for that matter. teleportation is only a factor in getting close to your opponent, And then at that point, how fast you swing your limbs is your combat speed. Minato does not swing his limbs at light speed.
In both the mentioned cases, yes; but only if the user has lightning level speed like that of Bee or Raikage
No, they are not lightning level speed, they have again, shown nothing of the such. They cloak themselves in Lightning chakra. I don't know why, but you keep seeming to think this makes them turn into lightning when they move. It does not, it has not and it will not, unlike Negis Confirmed Lightning speed.
Minato's personal speed is also nothing to laugh about. If you watch the fight back in Raikage's prime, the Kunai Minato threw on Raikage's back (hence Minato could himself react to lightning+ speeds)
Sigh.
Because if Minato had normal human speed, he should not be able to utilize the technique against someone as fast as Raikage A.
LOL. I never said Minato was human speed. YOU Claimed he was light speed. YOU Claimed Raikage was lightning speed. I have only said you are wrong in both regards. Is Minato swinging his arms at light speed? No, no he is not. I never said he is slow, simply not as fast as you are hyping him up to be. And I continue to push the fact that someone reacting to FTG tech DOES NOT equate Rakans reactions to Lightning speed enemies in feat wise perspective as they are two different things, and sure as hell does not equate reacting to lightspeed enemies.. Once out of Teleportaion, The users on body speeds determine their punch speed. That is essentially what Bee and Ay are reacting to, it's simply hampered by the FTG. As opposed to Rakan who, even with prior warning, react to a punch confirmed to move at the speed of lightning.
Besides, Naruto has a sealing technique to get by without actually killing Rakan.
Again, shouted himself out of a Dimension
With how much speed Rakan has shown, its highly unlikely he can avoid being hit by Naruto.
With how much speed Naruto has shown I highly doubt it's getting anywhere close to happening.
Already showed Rakan taking Multiple Mountain level Punches(Literally hundreds of them going at lightning speed, therefore increasing the actual impact strength) Mountain Level Techs, Being stabbed with darts and still throwing out hundreds of punches, etc. I literally don't know what else to show you. Save him Simply losing an arm and his legs. and just making new ones to fight with.
Gallery
What else can i show you?
My point remains. Narutos having a tough time even touching Rakan and assuming he does, it's not gonna put him down. While Rakans constant hammering and pure physical force overwhelms Naruto easily.
@funsiized: Tell you what, I can play your game. Lets falsify feats.
1. Negi is not lightning speed 2. Rakan is not lightning speed. 3. The other chick you showed me is not lightning speed.
Argument: Nothing you showed in your scans prove it is lightning speed. There's a single statement saying Negi turns into physical lightning. However that alone is not sufficient to prove lightningspeed.
Your act of falsifying lightning release armor as being short of lightning speed goes both ways. You have nothing in the scans you showed me to suffice for an argument of the level.
Moving on:
Here's how Negis Raisen Shundo Works, I will also interject Rakans Method for countering it in bold.
Using Air Magic, he creates Positive Streamers at target location, these Streamers Move at the speed of Electricity
Rakan Senses the Streamers location around him with instinct
Negi converts into electricity, which may very well be instantaneous Rakan Begins Moving to counteract
Negi travels along aforementioned Streamers. Obv, he travels at the speed of lightning.
Rakans punch is nearly done, or done
This is the only logical course of events, using this and applying it to The fact that Negis Punches went under the same effect. We find that even though he is predicting the Location of Negis punches, the fact that he is able to Move his body fact enough to be there from roughly a foot away, while it does not put him at Lightning speed(as I said earlier) it puts him on such a level that it's pointless to divi and divide.
Negi is not lightning speed. Thus, Rakan is well below this speed.
Your argument is His Awareness of where Negi is going to be completely destroys his speed. My argument is that Knowing where Lightning is going to strike doesn't mean you can stop it. It takes it's own level of Speed and strength to be able to do anything about it.
Only if this actually proved anything. Refer to the above statement.
Your argument is that Bee and the like Reacting to FTG Equates this situation. It does not, as they are two different things. Negi is punching at the speed of lightning, Minato and the like are punching at whatever their speed may be. Certainly not light speed and most definitely not proven to be lightning.
Fallacy! lol Negi is not lightning speed. There is no measure to prove this.
Moving on to the next possible argument. Skipping to avoid making the same arguments.
Already showed Rakan taking Multiple Mountain level Punches(Literally hundreds of them going at lightning speed, therefore increasing the actual impact strength) Mountain Level Techs, Being stabbed with darts and still throwing out hundreds of punches, etc. I literally don't know what else to show you. Save him Simply losing an arm and his legs. and just making new ones to fight with.
Woah, hold up. How did city block level go to mountain busting? When did you actually show this level of striking feat except Rakan's Disease thing?
What else can i show you?
My point remains. Narutos having a tough time even touching Rakan and assuming he does, it's not gonna put him down. While Rakans constant hammering and pure physical force overwhelms Naruto easily.
Quite a bit of erroneous fallacy on your part without anything to back a single of those statements. Rakan is nowhere near fast enough to tag Naruto. I shall reply to your FTG argument properly, but after you explain how Rakan is lightning speed.
Tell you what, I can play your game. Lets falsify feats.
1. Negi is not lightning speed
2. Rakan is not lightning speed.
3. The other chick you showed me is not lightning speed.
Argument: Nothing you showed in your scans prove it is lightning speed. There's a single statement saying Negi turns into physical lightning. However that alone is not sufficient to prove lightningspeed.
Be in denial, i really don't care it's up to the voters.
Again, i said he wasn't. Thanks for agreeing. what we disagree is the discrepancy in his and lightning speed, I think it's smaller than you do.
She actually casually reacted to Raisen Negi, but i doubt that if i showed you that you would believe me, you would just try and plug your ears again, go ahead. Ignorance is bliss. But again, i showed her Spell, again, stated to be lightning speed, catching lightning speed, oppoenents.
So you are arguing that lightning does not, in fact, move as fast as lightning.L-O-L
Your act of falsifying lightning release armor as being short of lightning speed goes both ways. You have nothing in the scans you showed me to suffice for an argument of the level
Besides the scan that states that Negi turns into lightning to attack and move, and even goes as far to state the speed of lightning.
and it's referenced Multiple times throughout Universe as being Lightning speed. And the fact that he oh i don't know. TURNS INTO LIGHTNING. but sure, hide behind a wall of Fallacy.
Lightning Release is nowhere stated to be as fast as lightning(To my knowledge), no where shown to be as fast as lightning, Nothing besides the chakra on their body even indicates the Flow of electrons. But sure, IM the one fabricating lies.
Woah, hold up. How did city block level go to mountain busting? When did you actually show this level of striking feat except Rakan's Disease thing?
Negis striking strength Which is greater than Ku fei's, Ku fei being someone who can do this.
Gallery
And again, Negi strait up beat her in pure strength.
Gallery
So, Negi Plus Rakan equates to around Mountain busting, And he took a few mountain level attacks From Negi in his final assault, again, as I showed you. Specifically the Final assault the Led to Rakan coughing up blood whilst laughing.
and Rakan Disease thing?
Fallacy! lol Negi is not lightning speed. There is no measure to prove this.
Ignoring the actually argument by Shouting Fallacy when there is none. Ever read the boy who cried wolf? Spoiler, he was eaten. Again, the entire point of that statement was Minato is not lightning speed and neither is Bee and Ay.
Quite a bit of erroneous fallacy on your part without anything to back a single of those statements. Rakan is nowhere near fast enough to tag Naruto. I shall reply to your FTG argument properly, but after you explain how Rakan is lightning speed.
I've shown you scans, I've explained the Technique, I've Provided ample comparison with other Lightning speed enemies, other lightning speed Spells. All Confirmed on Panel. I have literally done everything i can. if you're going to refuse to listen, then i guess we are done here. Do you want more proof? More of what? Scans? Statements? WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?
I have ample Statements, Feats, Corroboration. Etc to prove my side. You however, just say "Bee and Aye are lightning speed." i disagree and instead of providing facts you attack my argument instead. I'm sure you have an actual argument for their speed, i'm sure it's very sound, and possibly valid. I just haven't seen it.
Go ahead, ignore everything else as it suits you. Again, I don't care, i can try to convince you, but that's it. It's in Voters hands after this.
@funsiized: You have failed on that end. lol To actually convince me
Where does it state Negi acquired lightning speed? Nope, it does not state so anywhere. XD That was the fallacy of your assumption. It would be a fallacy on the same line for you to assume Ay is not, Minato is not an in essence, Naruto is not. In case you didn't know, Raiton, or Lightning release is a nature transformation. It creates and manipulates lightning. Its a technique the same as Neji's Hakkesho Kaiten and the Samurai's technique. The Raikage's figured a way to use this with lightning. Ergo, they move at the speed of lightning.
Moving on:
Negis striking strength Which is greater than Ku fei's, Ku fei being someone who can do this.
Gallery
And again, Negi strait up beat her in pure strength.
Gallery
So, Negi Plus Rakan equates to around Mountain busting, And he took a few mountain level attacks From Negi in his final assault, again, as I showed you. Specifically the Final assault the Led to Rakan coughing up blood whilst laughing.
and Rakan Disease thing?
I don't see mountain busting there, and I don't remember you showing me anything from Negi that busted a mountain. Jiroubu pre skip has shown better and much more impressive feats in terms of strength. And practically guys like Chouji who did not manage to scratch gedo statue, and the current Naruto and likes are much stronger than this.
Plus, Jiroubou was not even using his second state curse seal, which makes him much stronger than at base.
Also I meant Negi fever, the only attack in your scans that didn't even bust the whole mountain.
I've shown you scans, I've explained the Technique, I've Provided ample comparison with other Lightning speed enemies, other lightning speed Spells. All Confirmed on Panel. I have literally done everything i can. if you're going to refuse to listen, then i guess we are done here. Do you want more proof? More of what? Scans? Statements? WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?
What did you prove, in all honesty? Turning to lightning does not equal lightning speed, unless it has been stated to be so. At least, not until it is accepted the same of Bee, A and Minato. I even practically showed you clear as day FTG is lightspeed. You think thats somehow relative to what other teleporing techniques used by characters from outside Narutoverse. Here's something.
As you have said, FTG is a space-time technique and therefore, it is FTL.
And, here's Madara creating physical lightning. Sasuke dodges this. No before that, I want to show an attack, a so called "real lightning" attack from Sasuke.
^lightning speed.
Here's Madara's lightning attack and Naruto blocking it with a sage rod. Lightning timer. I don't know what you are trying so hard to deny here.
As I said before, if killing Rakan is not an option (assuming he can come back to life. You never showed me this), he can be sealed quite easily.
Furthermore, deflecting blows like what you have shown here is a piece of cake for Naruto. Here's him deflecting Bijuu Damas, mountain busters.
And this, as it is, is pre so6p mode for Naruto.
So tell me, how does Raken prove troublesome to Naruto? A couple of blades? Anything that Rakan throws, Gudou dama can wipe from existence anyway. Furthermore, Naruto has shown to resist molecular disintegration level attacks.
Gudou Dama can disintegrate anything it contacts with down a molecular level. Naruto should not have been able to kick it without harming himself. At least, not if the movement was not lightspeed as when Tobirama handled that gudou dama. XD But speed is not the point here. Its durability.
@lowlaville: I'm not going to sit here and listen to you say that lightning, with it's speed stated, is not lightning speed. this is ridiculous.I'll give one or two more scans,
Where does it state Negi acquired lightning speed? Nope, it does not state so anywhere. XD
Save in every scan i have provided you, and in this scan
You're argument is they are not lightning speed, because your guys are not lightning speed. I'm sorry i don't believe the guys not turning into lightning are not lightning speed. You're right, they are because they are. /s
would be a fallacy on the same line for you to assume Ay is not
That's a strawman argument and you know it. You are using my own argument against me, not conceiving one of your own. Lets break down the reasons for my beliefs, shall we?
Ay and Bee are not Lightning speed based on:
Not turning into lightning
Only lightning-like speed is stated
Negi is lightning speed based on
Negi turning into lightning
Lightning speed being stated(as in, THE ACTUAL SPEED But hey, maybe the Author juts likes to put random ass numbers in his Mangas to fill space.)
Repeated statement of the technique, it's description throughout the series, and other things to follow up said statements.
You are refuting said beliefs and replacing them with you're own misbeliefs
n case you didn't know, Raiton, or Lightning release is a nature transformation. It creates and manipulates lightning. Its a technique the same as Neji's Hakkesho Kaiten and the Samurai's technique. The Raikage's figured a way to use this with lightning. Ergo, they move at the speed of lightning.
That is where you are wrong and venture into Fanboy Territory(Which I know for a fact you are NOT, you're much to logical) They use Lightning Release to Cloak themselves in Their Lightning Nature Chakra as you yourself have said. I'm not debating whether it's actual lightning or not, I really don't care. What I am debating is the fact that covering yourself in an element does not make you move as fast as it. Where as you are debating that Turning into Said element does not.
One makes sense, one does not, can you spot the difference?
Also I meant Negi fever, the only attack in your scans that didn't even bust the whole mountain.
Negi in confrontation with Fate Nearly destroyed and entire Island, that good enough for you? considering Rakan was combating both of them Very well.
Gallery
With one Finger, Negi was capable of Stopping a Mountain Esque Blow(The Demon was around the Size of a Mountain.) Even if the Demon wasn't so large, He only did it with one Finger, scaling for his body....lol.
With a single hand, he stopped a blow from another Averuncus that was capable of vaporizing Metal with his punches
He able to do all of this casually, and he still couldn't handle a couple hits from Rakan without coughing up blood, and Fate(The other individual involved in the explosion) was likewise unable to stand up to Rakans concentrated blows.
What did you prove, in all honesty? Turning to lightning does not equal lightning speed, unless it has been stated to be so. At least, not until it is accepted the same of Bee, A and Minato.
Sigh. Lightning speed was stated on Panel, Chamo went as far to give the Numbers for it. It was "stated so". the difference between Bee, Ay, etc is they are not turning into lightning, only cloaking themselves in said element.
Based on your argument: Lightning is not Lightning just because People Cloaked in lightning are not lightning.
Or in Layman terms: Red is not Red just because Blue is not Red.
Like i said, Wall of Fallacy.....
As you have said, FTG is a space-time technique and therefore, it is FTL.
Again, I agreed so earlier
"Teleportation is actually Faster than light speed, Look at Goku"
Funsiized post #10
That is not what we are arguing, that is again a strawman argument. What we were arguing is whether or not Teleporting at FTL speeds makes one swing their limbs at said speed.
I said no, you said yes.
I brought up similar cases with similar techniques throughout media.
You denied these cases and simply Said "Hes faster than normal, so he has to be light speed"
I argued him teleporting at FTL speed does not make him move at lightspeed, You....Brought up this strawman argument.
And, here's Madara creating physical lightning. Sasuke dodges this. No before that, I want to show an attack, a so called "real lightning" attack from Sasuke.
So Sasuke using real lightning, and The speed being stated, that's enough for you for Naruto, but not enough for Negi? I'm so lost dude. you seem to have this misunderstanding that I don't believe Lightning speed exist in Naruto, that is not what i'm arguing.
Here's Madara's lightning attack and Naruto blocking it with a sage rod. Lightning timer. I don't know what you are trying so hard to deny here
Oh my golly, oh me my.
That is not the same thing and you know it. Kirin was made using Prep and as a result, him actually using real lightning. But yeah, lets assume against all reason, that Madaras Technique is the same as Kirin(Which it is not) Hypothetically, this would make Naruto a Lightning Timer.
So?
I never said Naruto was not a lightning Timer, only that based on what you had provided me(Dodging Bee and Ay) he was not. Which makes perfect sense considering those two are not Lightning speed. And even then, That one feat would in no way constitute The same level of Reaction that Jack as shown. One Rod at an AoE, Arguable lightning speed Technique Vs Fighting a verified Lightning speed opponent at close quarters, deflecting said speed attacks from a foot away? please. There is no argument.
As I said before, if killing Rakan is not an option (assuming he can come back to life. You never showed me this), he can be sealed quite easily
I'll show the scan and here is the explanation. He has stated he came back based half on his fighting spirit and another half on Princess Asunas power. Asuna was currently sealed and therefor, she literally could not have had any hand in bringing him back. What he means by that, is they had been keeping Asunas power from activating, and therefore not Wiping the entire Magical world. Now here is the scan.
Now, you really think you are sealing that?
Furthermore, Naruto has shown to resist molecular disintegration level attacks. Gudou Dama can disintegrate anything it contacts with down a molecular level. Naruto should not have been able to kick it without harming himself.
That was Naruto with the So6P power, and you know it. Everyone with that power has been shown to be able to touch those, Obito, Madara. That is not a durability feat, it was meant as a showing that Naruto has gained new powers.
Besides, those are two different Forms of Durability I'm Arguing that blades, and Rakans Pure physical force(As he really doesn't even like using his Artifact) are what is breaking down Naruto. it worked on a Grand dragon, why not on Naruto? You are arguing that Durability to a Disintegration attack equates to Durability against a flat out punch. This is wrong.
At least, not if the movement was not lightspeed as when Tobirama handled that gudou dama. XD But speed is not the point here.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Lightspeed somehow gives you durability. I don't even. but, as you said, it's not the point so i guess i'll let it drop.
Think I got everything, maybe, maybe not. Skipped around a lot. There is gonna be a lot of typos as I don't have time to proofread, sorry. When did you want to open this to voting? I'm down for whenever.
@lowlaville: Awesome, just wanted to say this has been great, and for my first CaV after hiatus, not much more i could have wished for. Good job, and ti was great debating you.
@lowlaville: Awesome, just wanted to say this has been great, and for my first CaV after hiatus, not much more i could have wished for. Good job, and ti was great debating you.
This was a great battle but i was hugely disappointed in lowlaville. He had so much potential. And could have easily won this debate if he was focused. Funsiized was on task providing feats left and right for him. But instead of focusing on the thousands of abilities naruto has and the thousands of strategies naruto could employ, he wasted his time focusing on the one battle he couldn't win anyway, whether or not negi was lightning speed, a battle which couldn't have been disproven due to his speed literally being stated and shown. Even then negi's speed shits all over HST considering his feats ALONE with said speed such as speed blitzing armies and what not. Not only that at the very least he could have left the argument alone and stick with the proof he had to prove that naruto was a lightning timer.
"And, here's Madara creating physical lightning. Sasuke dodges this. No before that, I want to show an attack, a so called "real lightning" attack from Sasuke.
^lightning speed.
Here's Madara's lightning attack and Naruto blocking it with a sage rod. Lightning timer. I don't know what you are trying so hard to deny here."
Although there is many theories to the speed of naruto. FTL speeds is a hard argument to support.
Even then you could have sticked with lightning speed. The travel speed would have been enough to avoid attacks from rakan.
Naruto could have done the thing that made naruto so badass in Shinobi ninja war. Multitasking.
He has enough chakara to spawn summons, to spam clones all over the field and even use tons of chakara with each individual clone. He can basically make his own army. Each soldier being a highly huge threat versatility wise. But meaningless durability wise.
And with clones he can easily gain the experience needed to take on rakan without having to fight him himself.
He can treat each exchange with rakan as a test and get to know how he fight their powers any tricks he might have etc etc
So with each clone killed he can get a good grasp on rakan's abilities because he essentially experiences it himself.
The amount of potential funsiized's opponent had to win was ridiculous.
At the very least lowlaville should have dropped the FTL thing and the lightning speed thing and stick with the proof he most likely had that naruto was at least lightning speed. And he could have shown the scan that stated that raikage's speed is just as fast as minato's FTG(IIRC thats how it was translated.) Or simply stuck with the whole lightning timing business. Because attempting to discredit the negima universe which actually explains the limits and abilities of their characters and has shit tons of consistency with the character's feats, is stupid.
Lowlaville was on the borderline of looking like a fanboy when he threw that "wall of fallacy" argument about lightning speed at Funsiized. Especially considering how lightning being stated to be real lightning for a naruto character is legit but not for a negima character. Which i find incredibly double standard.
Funsiized provided his usual logical and god like debating skills as always and stayed calm while staying on topic. My vote goes to @funsiized
I vote for @funsiized he convinced me that Rakan was much faster than Naruto with his lightning esque speed and did a good job of defending his statements/claims while debunking a lot of lowlavilles. Also lowlaville had that post where used Jirobo for some reason and tried to give Naruto that strength, plus he kept claiming Naruto was as fast as FTG when that wasn't shown.
Overall what I was convinced of was that Rakan is faster and harder to put down while Naruto is more powerful (mountain busting), and based on that, Rakan gets the win.
@lowlaville: Jack was powerful enough to make the clones fair game anyway. You really should have used them. Your argument would have been far more credible instead of having naruto fight all by himself against an opponent with the level of versatility and physical stats that rakan has. Plus to add, naruto can use sage mode while in Biiju Cloak Mode. That would have amplified strength amazingly.
@lowlaville: Jack was powerful enough to make the clones fair game anyway. You really should have used them. Your argument would have been far more credible.
Eh well. This is what happens when you use a country leveler and size him down to beat a mountain buster. XD I felt the restriction a lot of times, not to mention I could not spam those clones too. Look at the OP. All I had to work with were those pansy rasenshurikens for the most part.
@lowlaville: Too many clones is not specific. Current naruto at this point can spam thousands on thousands of clones. Not too many would be around the 100s(100 to maybe 300) or at the very least something like the tens(10-90) Which still could have been useful for multitasking. The restrictions are useless, the feats naruto has done so far has mainly been done because of the huge stockpile of chakara he has. Do a restriction on his chakara if you want him to do less.
I have to give raw power to Naruto, bijuu bombs are crazy and spammable I don't think anyone can doubt that. Rakan is physically stronger than Naruto though and I do take that into account.
Speed/Reactions goes to Rakan definitely, first of all Raikage isn't faster than lightning. If he is then so is Laxus from Fairy Tail because they both cloak themselves in lightning to move faster. Cloaking ones self in lightning =/= Actually becoming lightning, especially when Negi is confirmed to be lightning speed.
Durability goes to Rakan as well, I'm pretty sure Naruto couldn't receive all the damage Rakan takes. His Kurama cloaks and So6p don't seem to add much durability in my opinion. Naruto probably couldn't tank this.
Meanwhile Rakan is taking powerful attacks only to be knocked down, and then getting back up without so much as a scratch on him. Personally, I want to know what CAN hurt this guy.
The way I see it Rakan only has to close what ever gap there is between him and Naruto and that's it. Rakan is faster than Naruto and can tank more damage than him, and his punches are way stronger. Probably stronger than the like of Sakura and Tsunade. If Rakan gets too close Naruto can't do jack but run away because unleashing a bijuu bomb in close proximity will hurt Naruto.
Naruto's only hope is to delay the inevitable with Shadow clones to take the hits
I don't really remember being asked to be tagged for this but thanks anyway @deathhero61. I'm voting for @funsiized. Lowlaville debates better for FT from what I've seen.
@justsomerandomkid: Negima. Great series. You will probably find it hard to take seriously due to immense fanservice and the so called "romance" But its a pretty badass manga in terms of action. If you actually want to check the manga out, i just want to let you know the first 30 chapters are annoying to read, some of them are cool but whatever. Its starts to get good around 30 or 40 chapters. After that you should be hooked on it.
It also has a alternate universe called negima?! Or negima neo i believe. Very funny. Its basically the same series except less fanservice, and more comedy and less action and less plot as well. Its actually really weird.
It finished long ago and had a sequal called UQ holder. A manga that takes place quite a few years later. Where Negi's grandchild is the main protagonist.
as to @lowlaville: I was expecting to see more on naruto from you. It's not like naruto lacks striking strength feats:
against orochimaru:
or this:
it's a perfect counter to the metal-destroying punches jack supposdly took, considering naruto practically vaporized the daggers and the snakes in a single hit. That was as KN4.
As already suggested, there wasn't any need to go after neji's speed, and instead prove naruto's own speed is enough to counter rakan. For the record, jack literally says the neji is moving at speeds he can't perceive (post 4, durability section, scan 3) Naruto isn't fighting neji here, he's fighting rakan. You should go after him. Earlier naruto speed showings, the FRS speed showing with slight detailing would have helped.
Even if you're unable to counter speed properly, all you had to do was rakan's speed wasn't a game-ender for naruto, with his (plenty of reflex showings), considering he fought obito's speed with sheer sensing capabilities, and use a basic counter for faster enemies: AOE, which naruto very much excels at. I mean, he's pretty much the expert in the area lol.
I hope I'm not lecturing here, I'll stop early in case I am. But those were some points that would've helped your case.
@princearagorn1: Naruto isn't exactly my most knowledgable or even fav animes. Thanks for those words. I remember the my first CAV I had with you. It was fun. This is as well. More than just trying to win, I try to enjoy myself in debates.
As far as CAV goes, I have a lot of grounds to improve, like how to actually win one. XD There seems to be a kind of trick to structure that I haven't quite gotten yet. Eh I will some day.
@funsiized did a great job in the debate. I got to know about a character or two during the process. I don't really see this as my loss considering the knowledge I gained from this, and that's what I look out for most of the time. I wanted to win but meh; better luck next time.
October 10
Male
Log in to comment