• 81 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

Joygirl is driving:

Joker

- In character

- 1 week of prep to gather gear

- Is being a naughty boy

- Has basic knowledge on Rand

Pyrogram is driving:

Iron Fist

- In character

- No prep

- Knows who he is going up against

- His family/friends are safe

--------------------------

Location: Populated New York City on an unaffiliated earth. No help or hindrance from any other heroes or villains.

#2 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Nicely presented! So I will start with my I think IF will win in a simple H2H if that is what the Joker will attempt.

Blinded, he is able to defeated Sabertooth -

I think he can dodge any attacks done by Jokes, He is able to dodge Iron mans charge and hit back,

Not getting shot by the joker either

I will respond better with a counter argument to be honest xD

#3 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Joker doesn't just pull out a gun and shoot (well sometimes, but not so much). He'll wait for the perfect moment, get IF down, then quick draw and blow his brains out.

Ultimately, however, it isn't guns, or h2h at all that Danny has to worry about here. The first thing he's gonna have to worry about is Joker venom. Joker's no idiot -- he knows what he's dealing with, and that he can't take this in hand to hand. He isn't going to just pull out a crowbar and go to town, he's gonna be careful. He'll likely open with a gas attack from his flower, which is a cloud and can't exactly be dodged -- he'll have all of his gear laced with the stuff.

Scenario: Joker draws a revolver and unloads. Iron Fist amazingly dodges each and every bullet, only to realize Joker wasn't aiming at him, but the dumpsters and hard areas around him. The bullets crack open, and a viscous green gas starts to leak out....

What defense does Danny have against being lethally gassed?

#4 Edited by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

@Pyrogram: Joker doesn't just pull out a gun and shoot (well sometimes, but not so much). He'll wait for the perfect moment, get IF down, then quick draw and blow his brains out.

If he can get IF down that is :P Black panther could not!

Ultimately, however, it isn't guns, or h2h at all that Danny has to worry about here. The first thing he's gonna have to worry about is Joker venom. Joker's no idiot -- he knows what he's dealing with, and that he can't take this in hand to hand. He isn't going to just pull out a crowbar and go to town, he's gonna be careful. He'll likely open with a gas attack from his flower, which is a cloud and can't exactly be dodged -- he'll have all of his gear laced with the stuff.

Scenario: Joker draws a revolver and unloads. Iron Fist amazingly dodges each and every bullet, only to realize Joker wasn't aiming at him, but the dumpsters and hard areas around him. The bullets crack open, and a viscous green gas starts to leak out....

What defense does Danny have against being lethally gassed?

Will joker even have the reaction time to shoot that gun? Here IF is shown being able to attack and disarm somebody before they can even shoot.

So, your scenario now stands with can you show Joker feats of reactions?

Also -

Healing himself from being poisoned mid-battle to counter that argument.

#5 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: You want reactions?

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokermisc-parademon.jpg

^ Kills a parademon.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokermisc-splitshot.jpg

^ Dodges an arrow from Splitshot.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokermisc-vsluthor7.jpg

^ Savagely beats Lex Luthor after a long fight.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokermisc-jokerholiday1e.jpg

^ Hitting Wonder Woman with his flower and paralyzing her. Is Iron Fist as fast as Wonder Woman? Oh... that's right... no, he's not.

Joker was able to toss up a deck of cards, and shoot out both joker cards and the jack of spades. I'd like to see Danny dodge all of them.

#6 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Reactions battle then? Hmmm.

Dodges bullet at point blank range with no warning.

More bullet dodging

Speedblitzes a demon

Iron fist vs train - IF wins

Remember this, this BP was said to be able to defeat Batman and he gets BLIZED by IF easily.

1 punch and this is joker

#7 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Wow, very scary. He's good in h2h. ^_^ Destroyed a train and everything.

But Joker knows that. He's not going to close into combat unless he has to... which he won't. Because Danny charges forward and springs a motion-sensing proximity joker-gas mine (whoops).

Or no, wait. Joker grabs a little girl and her mother, and puts razor-sharp playing cards at their throats. But then, as he throws the little girl back to Danny -- whoops, he used sleight of hand to implant a nanobomb in her arm. Bye Danny.

Oh, he can dodge bullets, huh? You know who else is really good at dodging bullets?

Huntress:

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokerarcs-nml574-2a.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokerarcs-nml574-2b.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokerarcs-nml574-2c.jpg

Who is repeatedly plugged and easily defeated by Joker.

#8 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: I just..I just... Huntress. ahahaha

He can heal people who are on the verge of death, so I am sure he will make an exception for the girl and just attacked joker then it is over xD

Or use a ranged attack ^_^

What could joker do against a range hit like that?

#9 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Probably dodge it. Or use a human shield. :D

Oh, but, fun fact: Iron Fist needs to be in control of his emotions in order to use chi abilities like blasts, healing, and IF punch.

Guess who's really good at manipulating emotions and enraging people?

Joker.

Do I need to post scans? :P

Hal Jordon/Parallax decided to end Joker's reign. In doing so, they decided to invade his mind. Know how that ended?

Parallax became Jokerized and ran away.

Parallax did. Y'know, the guy who made Spectre crap his pants.

Speaking of which, Spectre was defeated by Joker as well when he tried to invade his mind.

Oh, then the Crazy Rain starts to pour down, jokerizing all of the civilians in the streets, who go berserk. :D

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokerarcs-lastlaugh28c.jpg

#10 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Funny funny emotions, Not anymore -

He is super strong in 616 now :D

Also can heal himself without realizing

Decapitated Joker

Strong enough to take out hercules in a punch

He has some mental control over people so could counter anything Jokers throws at him

He meditates for 3 days straight, he will not get annoyed by joker ( well not anymore due to strength and mind boost like my first scan )

Or he can turn into a dragon punch thing and beat joker

#11 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram:

Joker, in a straitjacket, punks Ra's al Ghul (with Talia standing right there, who cannot react in time)

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokerbat-demonlaughs1a.jpg

He then proceeds to kill about a dozen Brotherhood of Shadows Ninjas.

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokerbat-demonlaughs1b.jpg

http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv50/jokertheclownprince/jokerbat-demonlaughs1c.jpg

You don't wanna get into mind-control stuff, seriously. Joker will win every time, he has FAR more than enough scans to prove that. Even Martian Manhunter could only hold on for a few seconds before he, too, was cast aside.

Maybe (maybe) he can resist Joker manipulating him mentally (not likely, he's played better -- Injustice may be non-canon, but it's incredibly conceivable, using that method (which was super easy) that he can break even Superman). Maybe he can resist it... but that doesn't mean he'll reach Joker.

The guy's loaded with a week of prep's gear. Think he can't find something from, maybe, Felix Faust, that can nullify Danny's powers?

What's funny is that you still haven't come up with anything to counter the joker gas, you just kinda let it go.

Scenario: Joker draws a pistol, which he has had specially designed with rotating, expanding, exploding flechette rounds, each and every one loaded with joker venom. The likelihood of Danny dodging them all is pretty much nonexistent. And the chance of him resisting the effects (which have taken down WW, Aquaman, Green Lanterns, and just about everyone else ever) are significantly less. Healing or no healing, he'll be too busy laughing (and subsequently dying) to do anything about it.

#12 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: As I told you, I will reply tomorrow!

#13 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Your argument is very strong, I will give a debate back later tonight ( as in UK time :P ) :)

#14 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: Heeey you never debated back :P

#15 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

@Pyrogram: Heeey you never debated back :P

Ohh 0_0 Nice find! Gimme some time, Will do! So sorry :O

#16 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

I always like seeing the Joker being debated well especially when he has prep.

Good luck to you both but I must say that I may be a little biased towards the clown prince.

#17 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

I always like seeing the Joker being debated well especially when he has prep.

Good luck to you both but I must say that I may be a little biased towards the clown prince.

haha, Thanks - I am gona do my argument tonight ^_^

#18 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

@Pyrogram:

The guy's loaded with a week of prep's gear. Think he can't find something from, maybe, Felix Faust, that can nullify Danny's powers?

How will he find him and get him to stop the powers in a week? Especially since its a difference universe.

What's funny is that you still haven't come up with anything to counter the joker gas, you just kinda let it go.

It would not work, He has shown to be able to resist poisons during battle and heal himself for example. I also assume using his meditation he could resist the gas if need be.

Scenario: Joker draws a pistol, which he has had specially designed with rotating, expanding, exploding flechette rounds, each and every one loaded with joker venom. The likelihood of Danny dodging them all is pretty much nonexistent. And the chance of him resisting the effects (which have taken down WW, Aquaman, Green Lanterns, and just about everyone else ever) are significantly less. Healing or no healing, he'll be too busy laughing (and subsequently dying) to do anything about it.

He has dodged multiple people firing machine guns at him, that is better than 1 marksman with a pistol. He would easily dodge.

#19 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram:

How will he find him and get him to stop the powers in a week? Especially since its a difference universe.

Dude, it's Joker. With prep. And DC has a WAY more organized magical world than Marvel. I'm sure he can call in or blackmail a few favors -- he knows Danny has chi-based powers. He can find something to nullify them. But that is only one of his infinite ways to win, as opposed to IF's "eye panch yoo".

It would not work, He has shown to be able to resist poisons during battle and heal himself for example. I also assume using his meditation he could resist the gas if need be.

Allow me to point you in the direction of this quote that you, surely, must have seen. "And the chance of him resisting the effects (which have taken down WW, Aquaman, Green Lanterns, and just about everyone else ever) are significantly less."

He isn't going to resist anything that can bring down Wonder Woman within seconds. He's just going to die.

He has dodged multiple people firing machine guns at him, that is better than 1 marksman with a pistol. He would easily dodge.

Gasssssssssp, dodged multiple people firing machine guns? In a comic? That's so impressive! It actually brings to mind someone else who can dodge multiple people firing machine guns... gee, who was he... oh, right! Captain America! How did he die again?

...Oh right.

#20 Posted by Sideslash (5907 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

Gasssssssssp, dodged multiple people firing machine guns? In a comic? That's so impressive! It actually brings to mind someone else who can dodge multiple people firing machine guns... gee, who was he... oh, right! Captain America! How did he die again?

...Oh right.

Burn. Third degree burn.

#21 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sideslash said:

@Joygirl said:

Gasssssssssp, dodged multiple people firing machine guns? In a comic? That's so impressive! It actually brings to mind someone else who can dodge multiple people firing machine guns... gee, who was he... oh, right! Captain America! How did he die again?

...Oh right.

Burn. Third degree burn.

That was one of the best debates I have ever read, it was amazing xD

#22 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sideslash: I considered offering him some neosporin or aloe vera for it, but... then I figured... nah.

#23 Posted by The Stegman (24373 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl: Joker also managed to get the last laugh on Firestorm 
 
#24 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman: Yeah, he has used it on basically everyone. I don't think anyone can resist it.

#25 Posted by The Stegman (24373 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl: That one especially impressed me, given Firestorm's skill set, he can transmute almost any compound, but not Joker Venom
#26 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman: Yeah, Joker Venom is... I don't even know. It transcends plot device and just moves into "infinitely powerful insta-kill weapon".

#27 Posted by Dextersinister (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

@The Stegman: Yeah, Joker Venom is... I don't even know. It transcends plot device and just moves into "infinitely powerful insta-kill weapon".

The reason he was able to effect Firestorm is mentioned in the comic, the professor was a dumbass and wrote a paper on how his powers worked and it was Luther that prepared the venom.

#28 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

His venom has also worked on Grayven without a problem. Grayven is a new god and the son of Darkseid. If anyone should be able to resist the effects it should be him but he was taken down by it.

#29 Edited by Dextersinister (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill said:

His venom has also worked on Grayven without a problem. Grayven is a new god and the son of Darkseid. If anyone should be able to resist the effects it should be him but he was taken down by it.

That scenario highlights the problem with Joker's character when they try to have him step into the big league's there is a lot of hand waving.

That wasn't just Joker venom, for plot purposes they needed to house Joker at the prison where they keep the super criminals he was tricked into believing he was going to die, with no explanation as to how he manages to get normal Joker venom mixed into the the gas they use to suppress riots with no testing or explanation as to how it does this the new gas JOKERIZES the prison population making them all joker lite and willing to follow along with his plans.

The problem with affecting Grayven as like all other new gods is that they don't need to either breath or eat so have no metabolism to actually effect. He just happened to be a background character the artist added in.

#30 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

Dude, it's Joker. With prep. And DC has a WAY more organized magical world than Marvel. I'm sure he can call in or blackmail a few favors -- he knows Danny has chi-based powers. He can find something to nullify them. But that is only one of his infinite ways to win, as opposed to IF's "eye panch yoo".

Outsie

-

He isn't going to resist anything that can bring down Wonder Woman within seconds. He's just going to die.

He will have to get hit with it first. But I agree. He cannot really defend against that.

Gasssssssssp, dodged multiple people firing machine guns? In a comic? That's so impressive! It actually brings to mind someone else who can dodge multiple people firing machine guns... gee, who was he... oh, right! Captain America! How did he die again?

...Oh right.

The was plot induced and by a sniper. I think. :P

I was writing then gave up. I cannot contend against joker when he has feats like this xD Hurting Wonder women? Since when could he do that...comics xD

#31 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

You concede then? :P Since the whole "unavoidable gas attack" thing kind of trumps him trying to dodge or avoid the venom in any way?

#32 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

You concede then? :P Since the whole "unavoidable gas attack" thing kind of trumps him trying to dodge or avoid the venom in any way?

Unavoidable BS attack more like :P But yes, Let the votes commence heheh xD

Ima get stomped

#33 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pyrogram: The Joker is by far the most dangerous person on DC Earth. He is largely underestimated due to his lack of powers and supposed insanity.

@Dextersinister said:

@DireDrill said:

His venom has also worked on Grayven without a problem. Grayven is a new god and the son of Darkseid. If anyone should be able to resist the effects it should be him but he was taken down by it.

That scenario highlights the problem with Joker's character when they try to have him step into the big league's there is a lot of hand waving.

That wasn't just Joker venom, for plot purposes they needed to house Joker at the prison where they keep the super criminals he was tricked into believing he was going to die, with no explanation as to how he manages to get normal Joker venom mixed into the the gas they use to suppress riots with no testing or explanation as to how it does this the new gas JOKERIZES the prison population making them all joker lite and willing to follow along with his plans.

The problem with affecting Grayven as like all other new gods is that they don't need to either breath or eat so have no metabolism to actually effect. He just happened to be a background character the artist added in.

That was Joker Venom. Harley was able to give Batman enough information on it to provide him the answer he needed to solve the problem. She couldn't do that if it was some new form of Venom. Also, it had no effect on him which would only work if it was Joker Venom. The Joker had been planning his escape since before he was imprisoned in the Slab. He used his connections gained through either corruption or blackmail to get his ingredients inserted into two of the compounds that the prison used to pacify inmates. He knew that they would test them to insure that they had no side effects but he knew that they would not test them together. He then created a situation whereby both compounds would be used simultaneously causing the binary compound to mix creating the Joker Venom. It was all an incredibly well prepared escape plan which went off without a hitch. He likely has numerous escape plans for each individual prison that he can enact when he ever decides to leave and start his next circus with Bats. His Joker Venom has always had a corruption side effect, it just is generally so lethal that it kills most it comes in contact with which suggests that this Joker Venom was diluted, likely due to the binary nature of it.

It isn't that the Joker's interactions with the bigger world are handwaved, it is that his interactions with Batman are CIS. He intentionally loses to provoke Batman into killing him. He can't do that if Batman dies or loses so he has to create situations where Batman can win but also will be so enraged that he might just kill the Joker. It is a testament to his skill and restraint that Batman is still alive but also a testament to Batman's willpower to not just kill the clown.

#34 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

Burmp. Vote!

#35 Posted by Dextersinister (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill: It wasn't JUST Joker venom it explains his at best immunity not the result, most of these things you have written down where just made up by you and it's fine to handwave or fill in the blanks yourself for the sake of story but you've believe he can do this simply because he's the Joker not because of any proven feats of operating on this level. The event was effectively ignored afterwards because they couldn't justify how one of these super powered criminals wouldn't just pop his head like a melon the next time he crossed their path and it sure is hell wasn't because they feared him.

Most people correctly hold the opposite view that Batman needs to be downplayed to allow the Joker's plans to go off, the new Batman story is apparently very good but that is it's biggest criticism.

#36 Posted by Pyrogram (38286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

Burmp. Vote!

No votes yet xD

#37 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Joygirl, although I honestly think Danny would win.

#38 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

It was just Joker Venom, the dosage was different which allowed the prison population to get a taste of Jokerdom without going all deadsies and smiles. His immunity and Harley's knowledge prove this conclusively.

There is a difference between filling in the blanks and implication. All of what I said was implied in the story just like when Batman pulls some device out of his ass that saves the day. Batman and the Joker have no powers and they spend almost all of their off panel time developing plans within plans within plans and the equipment to pull them off. War Games and Tower of Babel are both instances that show that Batman does this. The Joker is just the other side of the Batman coin. He has just as many plans and pieces of equipment likely locked away somewhere or already deployed and awaiting activation.

No one goes after the Joker because everyone is scared of him. They have admitted as much on multiple occasions. All of the most dangerous people on the planet have little to no powers. Lex, Slade, and Ra's are all relatively powerless in a world populated by Supermen and Flashes and Green Lanterns but they all deal out massive damage through high intellect, preparation, and planning. Why is it so difficult for you believe that another powerless person can be just as dangerous?

Most people don't understand the Joker as a character. Most people think the Joker is Crazy. Most people think the Joker is evil. Most people only know the surface details about the Joker without looking any deeper. There is a reason why appeal to authority is a fallacy, because authorities are not facts. Even when the Joker had unlimited power, he still couldn't kill Batman as his whole universe is Batman. Whenever Batman is in play, the Joker plays to lose, this is an established fact.

#39 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

@The Stegman: Yeah, he has used it on basically everyone. I don't think anyone can resist it.

Poison Ivy?

#40 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh and one for Pyrogram, and consistency of feats minus special events

#41 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

Bumpz.

#42 Posted by Joygirl (19935 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey. Vote.

#43 Posted by age_of_ultron_Prime2000 (1217 posts) - - Show Bio

Well i'm voting for Pyrogram

#44 Edited by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Poison Ivy is the only person who has been shown to be immune to his Joker Venom and likewise he is immune to her poisons. They cancel each other out.

How is Joygirl's scans any less consistent? Even outside of what you call special events, the Joker's venom has generally worked on most people.

Also, a vote for Joygirl.

#45 Edited by Dextersinister (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill: It wasn't just Joker Venom or some lower dossege that made you Joker lite it was the meta gene inibitor gas mixed with the venom that had this effect, if you read the story as thoroughly as you claim you wouldn't have missed that. Remember this stuff had been in use long before the Joker who just recently got shipped to the Slab and for plot purposes mixing it with venom just happens to have the necessary plot effect or PIS.

Tower of Babel is a horrible comparison as it actually shows how he went about it in a believable manner, haven't read the other one. Over time Batman watches,looks into or actively asks in seemingly friendly manner about the physical or mental attributes of his team mates so that he can produce methods to take them down if they go rogue, believable in that Batman is shown to do it over time, these people trust him and scenario's where they went rogue are common normally via mind control. The negative aspect being his distrust of others prevents him from informing the team or anyone else of these fail safes which comes back to bite them in the ass. The set-up for this one is effectively Joker saying some guys did it for me.

People do understand the Joker, what you fail to realize is that he wasn't always just the anarchy is coolz character a character who goes out for mindless destruction and becomes less and less believable the higher the stakes. He was known as the crown prince of crime because he actually loved money and it used to be these villains may have followed along because he was good at getting it but the idea of blowing up orphanages of throwing babies into the ocean would have them back handing his head off as soon as he brings it up.

#46 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe you did not read it too thoroughly but the Meta Gene Inhibitor Gas was spiked so that when it combined with the drug (This was also spiked) that was supposed to incapacitate the prisoners, it produced the effects. The prison officials/Mr. Miracle never had to use both of them in tandem which is what allowed the binary compound to mix and activate the Joker Venom. As long as no situation required the use of both, no one would ever discover his plan. The Joker engineered a situation whereby they had to use both and thus his plan came to fruition. Have you ever wondered how the Joker has such fiercely loyal followers? Fear and money are nowhere near enough to ensure such but a small dosage of Joker Venom could easily achieve this goal. Compound that with the fact that it is addictive, as shown by Maxie Zeus when he was selling it under the name Chuckles, and he gets himself a team of people who will do whatever he wants which is exactly what he has.

Tower of Babel simply had time to show the preparation occurring. During War Games, Stephanie Brown enacts one of the plans that Batman has created, it is listed as a rather high number suggesting many of them. Stephanie Brown was able to get almost all of it to work but did not understand why it was never enacted. If a no rent idiot like Stephanie can enact this plan then it speaks to the time that Batman must have spent crafting it. None of this time is on panel so we must only assume he did it off panel and as I said it was one of many plans. The Joker was, I believe during Hush Returns, able to arrange the moving of prisoners via blackmailing the warden with his S&M fetish. How is it difficult to believe that he was able to do the same thing with the chemicals? There is zero reason to believe that anything in Last Laugh wasn't possible.

Those versions of the Joker are effectively the Silver and Golden Age versions of him, they no longer apply. You may find that Joker on Earth 2 but you won't find him in mainstream continuity.

Also, your usage of the words "Mindless Destruction' and "Anarchy is Cool" show you know very little of what the Joker is. None of his destruction is ever mindless, it is always meant to achieve some goal that doesn't readily seem apparent. Likewise, he has never been a proponent of anarchy, during Salvation Run he clearly took a leadership position. True anarchists abhor authority in any situation including themselves. Money has always been little more than a means to an end. Alternate names mean nothing or perhaps you think the Demon's Head is the head of a Demon.

#47 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll vote for Joygirl. :)

#48 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

Well argued by both. I didn't know Joker was that fast.

Look, that 1 week prep scenario left things pretty ambiguous to me. It's completely possible that Joker just uses human shields and since he doesn't care if they live or die he'll just kill them along with Ironfist using gas attacks. Bullets aren't going to hit Ironfist unless he's been doused in Joker chemicals or something. I think Pyrogram did well in showing Ironfist's reaction speed and it was clear that Joker was a bit physically outmatched. A hit from Ironfist isn't going to be a hit from Batman, that much was evident. Ironfist could one shot kill Joker, and that extended reach Ironfist would seal the deal in my opinion. However, from what I got of the argument, Joker with this much prep would just keep Ironfist busy enough to land a single gas shot or squirting flower, which is all that would be needed also. HOWEVER, Ironfist's healing would let him go on just enough to kill Joker before either dying or slipping away. So I'll go for Pyrogram. I think both characters will probably die, just Joker dies first.

#49 Edited by Dextersinister (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@DireDrill: On the gas point that's exactly what I said, I said it was the gas mixed with venom it was you who thought it was only venom so there is no misreading on my part. He took 2 existing chemicals mixed them together and got an unrelated plot device reaction it wasn't anymore complicated than that, there is no way you can spin it without making it sound stupid.

Yes I agree Tower of babel worked on the backstory this didn't because it couldn't without seeming even sillier, I haven't read war games so I have no idea but all I got from it was that she rounded up gang bosses using a powerful alias he had set-up, there was no masterful work needed. Anything is possible in comics but as you said the more unrealistic it is the more explaining is needed to make it seem plausible, most of the modern Jokers plans have no chance of a pay-off for those involved so it baffles the mind why anyone would willingly work for him so scenarios like these are at best a one time thing.

You can only be a successful anarchist in the DC universe with some powerbase behind you be it money, a powerful position or actual superpowers Joker hasn't had any of these for years and has depended on the writers ignoring all of his previous endeavours because each continuous act becomes less plausible.

A few more point's to correct you on: anarchist has more than one definition, one of which most he most certainly falls under.

You confused the idea of an alternative name having a meaning with it being taken literally. Demon Head does mean something it a title given to the head of the organisation, Clown Prince of Crime was a title given to the joker because he was a successful criminal in Gotham who dressed like a clown.

There have been countless moments of mindless violence from the Joker, he flipped out and killed a guy in the Arkham cafeteria .

#50 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

voting joygirl here.