#1 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm back online sooner than I thought. What better way to celebrate than a badass old west debate?

I hope your body is ready.

John Marston from Red Dead Redemption.

Roland Deschain from The Dark Tower novels and comic book of the same name.

An old fashioned western quickdraw. No rules.

#2 Edited by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

In a place where there are entire gangs of killers around every corner and the law is helpless to save anyone, John Marston became a household name in just a few months as the most dangerous outlaw around. His entire life of fighting goes hand in hand with an uncanny natural instinct, to make him the deadest shot all the west has to offer. From an early age, he was the personal protege of Dutch Van Der Linde, and it's during this time that he learned all the skills a young aspiring gunslinger would need, from explosives demolition, to the finer art of weapons handling. John is an expert with nearly every firearm around and has effortlessly drawn and fired shotguns and rifles before normal men can even react, but his specialty, are with revolvers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5hNu9MSAek

7:05 hits a small skull dead on the money from a distance

9:30 shoots a man's gun out of his hand before he can pull the trigger of his already-aimed gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqeZZBDV9fk

3:50 defeats Andreas Muller in a duel and empties his gun before he hits the ground

4:45 kills the stranger while leaving the hostage completely unharmed

In a quickdraw duel, John Marston is bordering unbeatable. In his entire life he's only lost once, and that was when faced against several dozen opponents all at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlUV_hStIjw

An entire military contingent is sent after this one man, and he proves that it's still not enough, protecting his son from the dozens of soldiers while never missing a shot. Then, at 8:20 after saying goodbye to his family, John sacrifices himself to save them - but still makes sure to take out as many of the bastards as he can before a single one can even twitch their finger.

#3 Posted by whacknasty (5578 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: Awesome thread! I'm looking forward to learning more about John (I'm still playing through Red Dead Redemption...lol)
#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Wow I really want to play this game myself now.

I have Work to go to real soon but will be on later today to make my comeback.

#5 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

Roland

Lets start with Roland and his Bio. Click here.

Roland may seem like your common Cowboy with a humanly quick draw, but he is far more.

Roland was train since birth to fill the shoes of his father Steven. Steven being King of Gilead, Lead Gunslinger, and youngest to attain the Gunslinger mantel at 16. He also is the descendant of King Arthur himself.

Roland's Father, Cuthbert's Father, and Alain's Father are ambush by Slow Mutants with poison darts. This sums up being a Gunslinger.

Roland turns out to be a prodigy in his Gun Slinging more so than his father.

Beings

Roland has fought species of his world and other worlds that would tear apart the mere cowboy.

Vampires, Vampires come in 3 types. Type 3 are common and not as dangerous. Type Ones are known as Grandfathers like Barlow from Salems Lotand Little Sisters of Eluria.

Slow Mutants. General term for deform humans. Most exhibit superior strength.

Taheen, the race of animal head humans. They possess keen eyes and senses. They are also immune to Telepathy.

Low Men, the cross breed of Taheen and Humans. They are made to blend in human society.

Not Men. Its still unknown if the Not Men are a result of technology or magic but are able to turn invisible. Perfect invisibility.

Demons. Demons in Roland's worlds come in many, many forms. They have possessed houses, act as Oracles, and live in the elements.

Ontop of all these Threats Roland has face robots and machines of the Old Ones. Mechanical Beings with highly advance weapons. Like the Wolves of Calla.

There are many other types including Sorcerers, Were Creatures, Psychics, and monsters that exist in the void of reality.

Revolvers

Roland's guns are forge from Excalibur and been confirmed to kill immortals. Although they cannot kill whats already Dead like Type 1 Vampires.

Experiance

The Battle for Gilead

Roland with a few days time and only handful of novice Gunslingers hold off a army with Tanks and Bazookas.

The Battle of Jericho Hill

Roland Outnumbered and Outgun. Yet Roland and his Gunslingers kill a hundred to their 1. Roland even with Snipers after him is the last to go down.

Roland vs Not Men the first time.

Here Roland fights a Gang of them mostly without his Billy Bumbler this time. Heck these guys are also more well armed than Poison Blow Darts.

Battle of Tull

Roland kills 58 people attacking him at once. He kills every single one of them with a single bullet. He been stab and pummeled with stones yet every shot remains true.

Roland and Cuthbert takes out one of Farson's troop encampments.

Roland has a run in with a Dust Devil demon.

Ability to tank Gunshots!

After the Battle of Jericho Hill Roland been Shot and Skull Cracked. As seen from above he not only gets back but Sprints with a friend in his arms.

Now the Main part Quick Draw!

Speed

First lets look at Speed Feats. Roland Speed with his Revolvers and hands is described as Supernatural, Preternatural, and Blinding.

Scan 1: Roland speed to fast to see. Dark Tower

Scan 2: Roland Speed again with his back turn. Dark Tower

Scan 3: Roland dying of a fever moves too fast for human thought and described as fast as Blue Summer Lightning. Drawing of Three

Scan 4: Rolands Blinding speed again. Wizard and Glass

Scan 5: Rolands Supernatural Speed in reloading on horse back and galloping. Wizard and Glass

Scan 6: Roland Reloads with in human speed while dodging a mob. The Gunslinger

Scan 7: Roland reloads with a guy aiming at him with his teeth super fast. Drawing of Three

Scan 8: Description of Cuthbert speed and Roland is twice as fast according to Cuthbert and Alain.

Scan 9: Eddie Dean (Cuthbert reborn) drops down as Roland shoots 3 shots faster than he can think. The Wastelands

Scan 10: Roland as a child showed faster reaction and hand speed than other train gunslingers.

Roland easily quick draws and fires 2 rounds thru the same hole in Jonas head. Jonas was a well known Quick Draw and train Gunslinger.

Roland kills 8 Desert Dogs that charge him from all sides and only 10 feet away!

Here Roland reacts and kills 5 Vampire Sucker Bats near instantly.

Roland as said here was firing with blind rage yet still killed multiple enemies with every shot.

Flathearty and his gang of 20 of Type 3 Vampires, Low Men, and Taheen are killed before they could fire there guns back. Flathearty himself is killed while halfway drawing his gun and Roland still had his hand up to his mouth. Dark Tower

Accuracy

Accuracy feats!

Scan 1: Roland Fires his guns after being in pitch blackness for day and then fires again near Blind with perfect aim. The Gunslinger

Scan 2: Roland sic and Dying uses a unaccurate Automatic pistol to predict and make a head shot. Drawing of Three

Scan 3: Roland fires from the hip at Wolves of Calla (Robots) Antennas under their hoods with ease. Wolves of Calla

Scan 4-7: Roland spends a day with no food or water shooting explosive Harry Poter Sneetches that zig zag thru the air. Dark Tower

Roland sniper shot with his revolver from a impossible distance.

Conclusion

Much like RDR, Roland is a MAster Gunslinger who reaction time and speed is Preternatural and Supernatural fast to even the quickest (Non) Humans.

In the end I think Roland Takes it.

This is my entire debate :)

#6 Posted by Pyrogram (32277 posts) - - Show Bio

This will be fun.

Online
#7 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

Roland was obviously meant to be a gunslinger, but John Marston is much the same way, in that the skills of a cowboy are set in his genes. For example, with no experience, and no training, his son managed to defeat Colonel Ross in a duel through pure instinct.

Likewise, John's cowboy wits have been tested against far more than just normal men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p98FXs8TY1I

3:25 John's speed with a gun is simply amazing. When his adrenaline gets pumping and he goes into Dead Eye mode, he literally moves his hands faster than the bullets he fires. He effortlessly guns down a large group of zombies before any of them can even take a single step; all dead before the first body hit the floor. And these aren't your stereotypical brainless zombies. These beasts are fast moving, clawing and swiping killing machines running off absolute base instinct. When an age old curse turns transforms the entire west into monsters, it's up to John Marston to save the world all by himself.

Like, literally. One of the main aspects of the game is riding into a completely overrun town and singlehandedly wiping out the entire zombie populace whereas an entire village worth of people failed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWsK3Fgf3EY

6:45 saves an army squadron from certain death against dozens of creatures, at 13:05 they repay him by running off to let him fend for himself against an entire horde. Not a problem though, he wipes them all out alone.

Throughout his journey, John Marston has returned hundreds of zombies to the dead, hunted the entire sasquatch population to extinction, took on a few chupucabras, and tamed the four horses of apocalypse. He's met gods and saved the world from an eternal undead nightmare (if ya get the reference).

Now, all that said, I wouldn't put any of those feats above John and Roland vs average outlaws. I mean, these monsters are tough and powerful, but, well... when facing a guy as good with a gun as these two are it doesn't really matter. I would think John infiltrating Fort Mercer and gunning down Bill Williamson's entire gang with a machine gun before a single one of the hundred or so guys could land a single shot on him is MUCH more impressive than zombies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gdq8KvGVKA

^ 4:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1810S75jiw

^ 2:15

After he and his ragtag team of wannabe lawbringers lay waste to the former most feared gang in the county, reinforcements arrive immediately. Eli states there were hundreds of them, but John puts one between each and every one of their heads with perfect accuracy. Again, he killed each individual enemy before they anyone could shoot him a single time. And considering this was the very first time he'd ever used a gatling gun, I assume he'd be even quicker with an old fashioned revolver. His guns don't need to be made from Excalibur. Lead will kill Roland just fine.

Roland Speed with his Revolvers and hands is described as Supernatural, Preternatural, and Blinding.

Like I said, John's hands move faster than the bullets he fires. By his own word, Landon Ricketts drew faster than humans can see, and John is at least as fast as him, probably better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZXCKrZh5TY

Fights his way through a gang of outlaws while carrying a full grown man on his back and defending the agent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4CDMu0X8g

1:30 kills an entire flock of birds with his gun (birds are a lot tougher to hit than dogs, and considering Roland shot about 5 bats from 2 feet in front of his face whereas John took on dozens flying high in the air, I'd say it vastly outweighs that as well)

If anything, I'd say Marston is a better shot than Roland. Speed on the draw may be sketchy, but if John is more accurate, than he'll have to spend less time aiming, and can just fire sooner. A win either way.

This is my entire debate

Re-really? Well I was looking forward to this one, but I have other debates to catch up on I guess. I was just happy to finally debate with John Marston for a bit.

#8 Posted by Wolfrazer (5012 posts) - - Show Bio

Nick I wouldn't say John's son didn't have experience, he had to have some since he went hunting. Unless you mean no experience in a gun duel and not handling weapons. But ah...anyway, shall not intrude.

#9 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

Nick I wouldn't say John's son didn't have experience, he had to have some since he went hunting. Unless you mean no experience in a gun duel and not handling weapons. But ah...anyway, shall not intrude.

John took him hunting once and showed him the basics. John died soon after so Jack would of had to figure the rest out on his own - which he did.

#10 Posted by Wyldsong (4176 posts) - - Show Bio

Phew...having read the entire thread, I think you both bring up some good points. I will say that it seems I need to play Red Dead Redemption, as that will probably be the closest I can get to playing Roland in a video game.

That being said, having followed Roland's adventures fairly well, I have to give it to him based on what is being presented, in what would still be a very close contest. I cannot think of a single time Roland has missed a shot (I could be forgetting something, but I don't think he has ever missed).

Hopefully we see some more on this between you two, as it makes for an interesting read. Good work guys=)

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: I saw it was a quick draw and made it simple and sweet all in one go. Sorry.

If it was a hunt thru the town or rather I would have Drawn it out lol.

#12 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Although I will add a little more here of Roland Awsomeness. Hoenstly I think this guy John would make a excellent tag team partner to Roland.

Roland vs Not Men the First time.

Roland vs Not Men the Second time.

Roland vs Slow Mutants In Gilead.

Now I think Roland is pretty well covered

#13 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadence has got this.

#14 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I saw it was a quick draw and made it simple and sweet all in one go. Sorry.

If it was a hunt thru the town or rather I would have Drawn it out lol.

John is an exceptional hunter himself, I was thinking of making it a more survival match, but figured in the end this would be more appropriate.

#15 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I saw it was a quick draw and made it simple and sweet all in one go. Sorry.

If it was a hunt thru the town or rather I would have Drawn it out lol.

John is an exceptional hunter himself, I was thinking of making it a more survival match, but figured in the end this would be more appropriate.

Yeah it would swing one way or the other.

Would you do a Tag team with me Cowboy style? We can challenge old and to a Match of street peak human level fight. I can envision a epic match of you with John and me with Roland with Six Shooters ablazing. Heck we can add in Revolver Ocelot for you and Flagg for e to complete it.

#16 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I saw it was a quick draw and made it simple and sweet all in one go. Sorry.

If it was a hunt thru the town or rather I would have Drawn it out lol.

John is an exceptional hunter himself, I was thinking of making it a more survival match, but figured in the end this would be more appropriate.

Yeah it would swing one way or the other.

Would you do a Tag team with me Cowboy style? We can challenge old and to a Match of street peak human level fight. I can envision a epic match of you with John and me with Roland with Six Shooters ablazing. Heck we can add in Revolver Ocelot for you and Flagg for e to complete it.

That... would be pretty awesome. I'm totally in.

#17 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

#18 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

I'm already duking it with Esquire in an Ocelot vs Snake Eyes match as you've seen, but we can make it work. Maybe Floops can get Hei in on this? That'll make things difficult considering his bullet proof coat and all our guys are useless without guns :P

#19 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Flagg isnt. The Cowboyish Wetsern Devil in The Stand (aka Walking Dude) has some neat Magic and rarely relies on his Bullets.

#20 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: Flagg isnt. The Cowboyish Wetsern Devil in The Stand (aka Walking Dude) has some neat Magic and rarely relies on his Bullets.

We'll see what Esquire and Floopay have to say. I'm trying not to take on too many debates at once, but I must say this is highly tempting.

#21 Posted by Esquire (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

Sounds like fun, but I'll have to think about who to use. I love the ninjas, but I've already done a couple of CaV's with them, and I'm debating with them against Nick and in the VHT. I'll give it a think. Might be fun to do Deadshot and Bullseye, but I'll wait to see if Floopay's interested.

#22 Posted by cooljammy18 (772 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: Wow I really want to play this game myself now.

I have Work to go to real soon but will be on later today to make my comeback.

It's an amazing game with an amazing story. You won't regret it.

Hope John wins this one. :)

#23 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooljammy18: The battle is over XD

@Esquire said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

Sounds like fun, but I'll have to think about who to use. I love the ninjas, but I've already done a couple of CaV's with them, and I'm debating with them against Nick and in the VHT. I'll give it a think. Might be fun to do Deadshot and Bullseye, but I'll wait to see if Floopay's interested.

Yeah this could be a real good match.

#24 Posted by cooljammy18 (772 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@cooljammy18: The battle is over XD

@Esquire said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

Sounds like fun, but I'll have to think about who to use. I love the ninjas, but I've already done a couple of CaV's with them, and I'm debating with them against Nick and in the VHT. I'll give it a think. Might be fun to do Deadshot and Bullseye, but I'll wait to see if Floopay's interested.

Yeah this could be a real good match.

Yeah...didn't read the whole thread before I posted.:p

#25 Posted by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@cooljammy18: The battle is over XD

@Esquire said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

Sounds like fun, but I'll have to think about who to use. I love the ninjas, but I've already done a couple of CaV's with them, and I'm debating with them against Nick and in the VHT. I'll give it a think. Might be fun to do Deadshot and Bullseye, but I'll wait to see if Floopay's interested.

Yeah this could be a real good match.

Street Leveler? With or without powers? Because I can do the following:

  • Hei (Darker than Black) (w/ or without powers)
  • Edward Elric (FMA: Brotherhood)
  • Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop)
  • Bucky Barnes (Mainstream Universe)
  • Hawkeye (Mainstream Universe)

There are more if you aren't interested in any of these, just having a hard time thinking up any atm.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22347 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@Esquire said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

Sounds like fun, but I'll have to think about who to use. I love the ninjas, but I've already done a couple of CaV's with them, and I'm debating with them against Nick and in the VHT. I'll give it a think. Might be fun to do Deadshot and Bullseye, but I'll wait to see if Floopay's interested.

Yeah this could be a real good match.

Street Leveler? With or without powers? Because I can do the following:

  • Hei (Darker than Black) (w/ or without powers)
  • Edward Elric (FMA: Brotherhood)
  • Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop)
  • Bucky Barnes (Mainstream Universe)
  • Hawkeye (Mainstream Universe)

There are more if you aren't interested in any of these, just having a hard time thinking up any atm.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I think all those but Edward are great picks. If you team up withEsquire and what he brings to the table. Me and Nick will bring a Western Style Team of Ocelot, John, Roland, and Flagg.

#27 Posted by Floopay (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@Floopay said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@Esquire said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: I bet i know what and would pick. Storm Shadow/Snake Eyes and Spike/(insert Manga Character) lol.

Sounds like fun, but I'll have to think about who to use. I love the ninjas, but I've already done a couple of CaV's with them, and I'm debating with them against Nick and in the VHT. I'll give it a think. Might be fun to do Deadshot and Bullseye, but I'll wait to see if Floopay's interested.

Yeah this could be a real good match.

Street Leveler? With or without powers? Because I can do the following:

  • Hei (Darker than Black) (w/ or without powers)
  • Edward Elric (FMA: Brotherhood)
  • Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop)
  • Bucky Barnes (Mainstream Universe)
  • Hawkeye (Mainstream Universe)

There are more if you aren't interested in any of these, just having a hard time thinking up any atm.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I think all those but Edward are great picks. If you team up withEsquire and what he brings to the table. Me and Nick will bring a Western Style Team of Ocelot, John, Roland, and Flagg.

We're doing 2 characters per debater? Alright.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#28 Posted by nickzambuto (11471 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooljammy18 said:

CadenceV2 said:

@nickzambuto: Wow I really want to play this game myself now.

I have Work to go to real soon but will be on later today to make my comeback.

It's an amazing game with an amazing story. You won't regret it.

Hope John wins this one. :)

You're absolutely correct, and thanks.