The one and only Psycho biatch represented by @jestersmiles.
The woman who lived with Predator debated for by yours truly.
Death or KO.
Standard Gear.
Start 100 feet apart here.
CaV: Jestersmiles (Harley Quinn) vs SFW (Machiko) (Votes)
@jestersmiles: Lets get this started. Who is this chick I am using? Well she only has 12 issues of comics she been in, so what can I do with that right? Alot actually.
Machiko was born and raised on earth by rich parents, and trained as a child in various martial arts due to her heritage. She is a mix of Asian and White, and when she got older became a major business woman climbing through the ranks of a certain Corporation that everyone knows. She was station on one planet to oversee the distribution of meat when Predators launch Xenos their, for that planet was a ancient hunting ground to them. Hell ensue and with the help of a Predator named Broken Tusk, Machiko survived and was granted the mark as a bloodied Predator herself. She then joined another Predator clan shortly after, hunting Xenos across various worlds, and learning their ways. She had a falling out when her Clan went after humans of another world, and severed ties by killing the clan. Later on in life she was again brought into the world of Aliens and Predators during a war of Humans and Predators vs renegade Predators using Xenos as weapons. Proving herself again in the heat of battle, she was finally relieved of her mark to live a normal life.
Thats it, that is her history lol. Is this enough to debate with? Hell yeah. First lets get into gear. She carries on her a Wrist Blades, Personnel Blade, Pistol, and Helm.
The Wrist Blades are self explanatory. As is the simple short Blade she keeps on her. Both made of the unique metal that Predators have.
Making this stuff sharp enough to cut through tank armor, and tank Xeno acid with no problems. It is tuff stuff.
The Helm she wears allows her several options of vision mode. No need to go there really, but what is also unique is the fact the Helm provides tactical data on the prey.
Analyzing weapons, and gear, as well the target physical abilities itself. So Harley is not surprising Machiko with any surprise weapons here.
The Pistols she likes to use are filled with AP rounds. While never stated Aliens have Bullet Proof hides to most caliber bullets, yet her pistols always time and again blasts through the Xenos with ease. Since Colonial Marine weapons are typically AP rounds, its safe to assume hers is as well.
It fires one round at a time, and requires a reload after ward. Powerful stuff.
She does make use of the Plasma Caster once, but it really is a weapon she rarely ever uses, and I never seen her use Cloaking either, so doubt she has that as well. However she is a very capable hunter, and out stealth Xenos and Yaujta alike with no help of a cloak. So she really does not need it.
In this battle i can very much see her gear wise more than handle what Harley has, and more importantly I see Machiko skill playing a big role here.
Even before joining the Predators she was skilled enough to accuratly assess the unique and deadly fighting style of Predators from her own experience of being a trained martial artist. She lives with the Yaujta for two years after this, learning their ways.
Her skill becomes so good, that she is fully capable naked fighting a bloodied Predator in hand to hand, and being able to win. This is a major testament to her skill, but also her durability, strength, and speed. In strength we see her capable of harming a Predator with her blows, something even Dutch from the movie Predator could not do. We see her speed as she is able to fight this bloodied Predator in close combat, something highly program super human synthetics fail to do half the time, yet she dodges Shorty's attacks the whole time till outside interference happens. Then we see raw durability of tanking deadly blows from a creature that is in the 1-2 ton area. Not only tanking the blows, but surviving it just fine where a week later she is fighting again.
So all in all her skill and stats IMO are more than enough to contend, and her gear is more than helpful here as I will delve into further.
@sirfizzwhizz: Nice Nice..... So I guess it's my turn
Ladies and Gents let me introduce you to the Cupid of Crime, my Queen: Harley Quinn.
Harleen Quinzel once attended Gotham State university, said to have a Genius Level intellect she wanted to study to become a psychiatrist so she can better understand the criminal mind, more specifically her father's. After an incident involving Joker's toxic and her then boyfriend Guy Kopski, her curiosity of the Joker grew. Harleen wanted more than anything to study him closer, to see what made his mind tick. Getting an internship in arkham asylum specifically to study him, she finally got her wish, a session with the Clown prince of Crime. After one session and exchanging punches and kisses , the two fell in love and the doctor went out her way to help him escape several times from arkham. Eventually getting herself caught and her medical license taken away from her she found herself now a patient of the asylum. Breaking out herself to follow after her puddin, she was briefly his partner in crime but after getting tired of the constant abuse she decided to branch out on her own and become her own boss.
Hoped you like the brief introduction, I think that enough since Harley is well known. So on to the debate:
Let start with her Gear.
Her Hammer:
Here we see her Hammer is Strong enough to knock out Batman who pain tolerance is up there with people like the Punisher , yet he was knock out with one blow. Also notice how she snuck up on batman (Go more into this later).Her hammer is also strong enough to knock out Black Lantern Sionis, AKA Black mask who a zombie at this point and we all how strong they are. Granted Machiko has armor, it's not going to help with multiple blows against Harley's Hammer.
Pop Gun:
Even though it a rubber bullet it strong enough to take out guards wearing bullet proof vest in a single hit(even breaking some ribs). Also notice Harley accuracy with it, she was able to make it bounce around and take each of them out. So Harley's wombo combo of her popgun and Hammer is going to make it tough for Machiko.
Adding to her combo are poprockets that manage to distract/blind Big Barda rather effectively.
Even though Machiko has a helmet on she still will be distracted enough to give Harley a window to get in some quick blows from her wombo combo
With that being said I will say that Machiko does have some pretty nice gear and might give her an edge in this battle but w/e gap she has in equipment harley base stats more than make up for that.
Strength and Agility/Speed.
As you can see Harley stats are more than enough to make up for w/e slight advantage Machiko has with her gear.
So in wrapping up my introduction, you can see Harley Equipment is not that far off from Machiko's and her base stats are IMO better than her as well. While you did show her taking on a Naked bloodied Pred, Harley fought and beaten things comparable to a naked bloodied pred, which I will show you later as the debate goes on. As off now Harley equipment is not as far of as you think it is and combine with her base stats IMO will be enough to give Machiko a world of hurt.
So unto to you my main man.
@jestersmiles: I knew this will be fun. They are well matched.
Time to get to the good stuff.
Speed, Accuracy, Precision.
Speed, Accuracy, Precision or SAP as I will refer to it is key here. Its all Machiko has in her corner against the most deadly things in the Galaxy. She has the peak speed to react or get attacks in, the accuracy to tag things from range, and precision to land attacks that make a difference. Let me explain by some scans.
A good example of this is her quick domination of a Alien hunting Colonial Marine. With only a wooden splinter as a weapon, she takes this man down, and pulls the pin of his grenade, only to show with speed and precision to replace the grenade pin with said wooden splinter before anyone notices while they watch the fight.
This is a woman who kills Aliens before any formal training from the Predators with just a shotgun and hand held knife.
While a predator is in a struggle match, Machiko sneaks up on the two, blows the Xeno's head off with a shot gun, not getting the Pred covered in acid, and then joins the clan in a Xenos brawl. We see her with just a knife and pistol take on two Xenos rushing her which she survive. All this is before her official training with Predators in their martial arts or gear.
In the first scan we see Machiko reacting and accuratly blowing away multiple blitzing Zenos fro a distance less than 10 feet from her. These same Xenos that run 60 MPH and seem like blurs to humans firing at them. In the second scan she is able to blast way a Xenos in mid lunge at a Predator. The degree of reaction and accuracy to do that, and she shot the thing 5 times with no misses while it was in mid air.
Here she speed wise kills two Preds before they can really react with one move on each of them in close combat, including the Predator guard who she had her back to. She is very precise in her killing.
she does it here again with a Predator ready for her attacks. She blitzes the Pred, and goes for the one two combo to finish him easy.
Harley will be hard press as hell to avoid this level of skill and range superiority. Also the mask would provide great help by giving Machiko advance info on Harley and her possible gear as I said, helping Machiko decide the best times to attack in close or at range. Where Harley has a single shot Pop Gun, Machiko has a full clip of the pistol. As for Harley rubber bullet, I am not convince she can tag Machiko. The close combat is more questionable as Machiko fighting style is not taking hits, as a human against razor bladed aliens with acid blood, Machiko cannot afford to take hits. Against super strength martial artist with plasma weapons and razor weapons, Machiko cannot afford to take a hit. While Harley strength is good as a Predator, Machiko will actively avoid the attacks and go for the sure killing blow.
@sirfizzwhizz: This is fun as hell :)
But like you said, time to bring the big stuff.
Counter Arguments/Rebuttals:
In the first scan we see Machiko reacting and accuratly blowing away multiple blitzing Zenos fro a distance less than 10 feet from her. These same Xenos that run 60 MPH and seem like blurs to humans firing at them. In the second scan she is able to blast way a Xenos in mid lunge at a Predator. The degree of reaction and accuracy to do that, and she shot the thing 5 times with no misses while it was in mid air
While that is impressive is nothing Harley can't handle
As you can see aim/bullet dodging is nothing new to Harl, she even does it closer to what Machiko shoots the xenos. So I find it hard to believe that she will tag Harley as easily as you say.
Mean while Harley is no slouch when it comes to reacting.
As you can see Harley has great reaction time even more than Machiko and just to hammer the point in I am going to show how fast Cassandra is:
Here we see Cass taking out 3 bodyguards before they can even react. Notice the guard on the left and how his face stays the same through out all 3, indicating they could not even perceived her . They look like they are frozen in time. Yet Harley was able to dodge an attack from her from behind.
So Machiko is going to have a tough time tagging Harley.
Harley will be hard press as hell to avoid this level of skill and range superiority. Also the mask would provide great help by giving Machiko advance info on Harley and her possible gear as I said, helping Machiko decide the best times to attack in close or at range. Where Harley has a single shot Pop Gun, Machiko has a full clip of the pistol. As for Harley rubber bullet, I am not convince she can tag Machiko. The close combat is more questionable as Machiko fighting style is not taking hits, as a human against razor bladed aliens with acid blood, Machiko cannot afford to take hits. Against super strength martial artist with plasma weapons and razor weapons, Machiko cannot afford to take a hit. While Harley strength is good as a Predator, Machiko will actively avoid the attacks and go for the sure killing blow.
Now that I showed her reaction speed , let me show you what going to happen if Machiko even menages to close the gap. Even though I find it hard to see that happening as once Harley proves Machiko guns are ineffective to tag her, It becomes Harley game with her Hammer.
Here we see Harley making a quick escape. So if she see's the need to make distance she clearly has the speed to make it. So I don't think she blitzing harley as easily as you make it out to see.
Meanwhile Remember Cass?
So as you can see Harley more than capable enough to tag faster opponents than Machiko, so I find it hard to believe she won't be able to tag her.
And since you brought up sneaking let me bring up Harl sneaking prow less.
So here we have Harley sneaking up on batman twice, granted the second time he was able to react to it, it still shows how good she is to even get that close to someone as good as the batman.
So far Harley is not only fast enough to avoid Machiko Blitz she fast enough to tag her as well. Machiko is getting ready to ride the pain train.
Ball in your court my main man.
This will be my last post, as I said, Machiko only has a handful of comics worth of feats. Lets get back into this. Why does Machiko win is still key here. Speed, skill, and weapons working together. This is what she does best. SAP.
I really doubt Harley is on Machiko level in accomplishments in the area of speed and skill.
A Alien Queen is every bit as fast as the Warriors, only it is armed with Tank Rending Tail, Tongue, and 6 sets of razor claws. One hit from any of these 8 weapons will one shot Machiko or Harley for that matter, but Machiko dodges it all, while restraining from harming the Queen. Harley has a single hammer, and Machiko is not restraining to kill/ The odds for Harley surviving is small.
I showed already many feats of Machiko taking on one Predator at a time, how about I show her fighting two with the most sub basic gear? Armed with her wrist blades and auto pistol, she takes on two Bloodied Yaujta. She takes down both charging at once, ending Freckless with two moves. Then she disarms the weapons of Shoty, and takes him out in less than 5 moves. All the while tanking no hits in turn! Thats how fast, and precise she is in battle.
If you need to be reminded how fast Yaujta are, there are these varying feats.
All more examples of being faster than most peak humans can track. Machiko with raw skill and her own peak human speed matches two of these, while tanking no blows. Still not convince?
Machiko in the first scan blitzes a Pred Alien before it can attack, by cutting off its head. In the second scan she takes on 4 Pred Aliens armed with only her combat blade and pistol. Taking all 4 at once in melle no less without taking a single blow from them, or the Acid spray that follows. I hardly see Harley doing the same here at all if positions were switched.Pred Aliens are even more powerful and smarter than normal Xenos.
Also for the comment of range being useless here. Its not.
If anything she is more than capable of dealing with foes in close combat with her pistol.
As for the comment of Harley sneaking up on Batman, I hardly see Harley equals to the Stealth abilities of the Xenos and Predators that Machiko deals with.
This is a neat gem of a feat. Machiko with a small group of other Preds takes on a whole planet worth of Xenos. She just as easy keeps them at bay, laying down cover fire, but once inside the nest they part ways a bit. On the Alien home turf, she not only sees the Xeno threat, but the Bloodied Predator Shorty failed to do so, and she saved him. Great feats in awareness, and reaction. Add in her mask, not seeing Harley out stealthing this hunter :)
So what can I say I have not been saying over, and over, and over. Machiko whole shtick is the ability to fight in close combat against beings and foes that are way more dangerous than the measly fodder that Batman or Harley deal with on a daily basis. These foes all can give Batman a hell of a fight, and do in crossovers that can be seen as canon to the EU of the expanding Predator Comics and Movies. Machiko is a human with high intellect, and great martial prowess turn even deadlier by the Yaujta that trained her afterwards. Her gear load out only compliments her skill and prowess further.
Too many times I showed her taking down hordes of Xenos or Predators with relative ease every time and with barely any gear. This is the foe that Harley has rarely had to face. Im not seeing her not being a trophy in the end for Machiko.
This is one mean chick who will win this cat fight with utter ruthlessness, and cold calculation. She has the skill, the speed, the tools, and the talent!
Counter Breakers/End
It seems you are focus on speed but I am sorry to say I am here to break your dreams and here how.
While yes Preds are fast but Cass is faster
Here clearly shows Cass is way faster than the Preds you shown and still Harley is fast enough to react to her.
Now let look at this claim you made.
A Alien Queen is every bit as fast as the Warriors, only it is armed with Tank Rending Tail, Tongue, and 6 sets of razor claws. One hit from any of these 8 weapons will one shot Machiko or Harley for that matter, but Machiko dodges it all, while restraining from harming the Queen. Harley has a single hammer, and Machiko is not restraining to kill/ The odds for Harley surviving is small.
Now let me show why that statement is wrong, at least when it comes to Harley.
As you can see Harley can take a beating, so even if she gets tagged by a bullet it not going to put her down right away. She even tanked being blown up and the crash of the rocket. That more than Machiko has shown.
Now let me hammer home how durable Harley is and why it will win her this fight:
Here we see her taking hits on the face from both batman and Cass but why is the impressive you say? here why.
Gallery
Here we see why taking those hits from these two is impressive. Batman makes a crack on a glass said that even a bazooka would be able to only make a crack on it. Yet he is able to do with his fits and kicks while being poisoned.
Cass meanwhile is strong enough to break a brick wall with her kick, that the kinda force harley took to the face.
but since slashing is what Machiko brings to the table. Harley has been stabbed and still took on a full gang of assassins. To bad it did not end there for her, before she could rest she got attacked by this little monster:
Here we see Harley getting surprised attack by killer croc even passing out during the fight wakes up and finally beats him and then finally passes out.
You can see the full fight here Harley Quinn #9
So it shows that Harley is a beast when it comes to Durability, more than enough to handle Machiko.
On the Alien home turf, she not only sees the Xeno threat, but the Bloodied Predator Shorty failed to do so, and she saved him. Great feats in awareness, and reaction. Add in her mask, not seeing Harley out stealthing this hunter :)
I agree, given the fact Machiko has that mask it be hard for Harley to out stealth her. Can't say much there but I shown that she does not need to go that route.
So what can I say I have not been saying over, and over, and over. Machiko whole shtick is the ability to fight in close combat against beings and foes that are way more dangerous than the measly fodder that Batman or Harley deal with on a daily basis. These foes all can give Batman a hell of a fight, and do in crossovers that can be seen as canon to the EU of the expanding Predator Comics and Movies. Machiko is a human with high intellect, and great martial prowess turn even deadlier by the Yaujta that trained her afterwards. Her gear load out only compliments her skill and prowess further.
I get that Machiko shtick is not getting hit but it be illogical to say that she going to go the whole fight untouched, while I showed Harley just as fast but most importantly she can takes hits unlike Machiko.
As for intellect, Harley is know to have a genius level intellect, she just choices to act the part of a bimbo but she far from it. For training, Harley had just as good if not better training.
During Countdown Final Crisis 10 : Harley was Trained by Granny Goodness in a Amazon boot camp.
So her training is just as good if not better than Machiko.
Conclusion:
Here I have shown that Harley:
- Faster than Machiko
- More Durable than Machiko
- While Machiko hold a slight advantage in Gear, Harley not that far behind but her other stats help her close the gap
- Just as good if not better Training than Machiko
IMO there only one Victor in this fight and that
Well That my final post and since you said you where done, I think we can open it up for Voting. It was great having my first CAV vs you. It was fun my main man.
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