#1 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio
VERSUS

Rules

  • This is a challenge a viner so no interference during the debate (if you wish to correct some stuff which was out of context feel free to do so when the debate is done)

  • Morals are off
  • Iron man is bleeding edge and hulk is savage
  • Both get 10 minutes of prep
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation

Location

  • Begin 50 feet apart
  • Fight takes place here:

@thedckid Is everything good? If so feel free to make the first move.

#2 Edited by laflux (15126 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Just to ask is the 10 minutes of Prep available to Banner before he Hulks out?

#3 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: To be honest I didn't think of that. I am assuming iron man is being limited to bleeding edge only though and the 10 minutes is just there to think of a plan to be honest. I guess we will have to wait for @thedckid since the prep was his idea.

#4 Edited by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Well what I had in mind for the prep was just time for the characters to come up with a basic plan/strategy directly outside the battlefield, I suppose Banner could partake in the prep but that means he would have to spend some of it "Hulking up". My argument will arive shortly.

#5 Posted by Killemall (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I have never actually seen you debate for Hulk, best of luck mate :)

#6 Posted by dondave (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be a good debate

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#7 Edited by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44, Here is my first argument.

When the battle starts Iron man will activate his stealth function and become completely invisible to Hulk, he will position himself directly behind Hulk and hit him with a barrage of repulsor blasts. As seen in the scan below, Tony's repulsor's can level buildings and can be shot at the speed of thought.

This probably wont end the fight though, so immediately after Iron man hits Hulk with the repulsors he will then unleash a fleat of missiles to further wound the Hulk. The effectiveness of the missiles is demonstrated below.

Finally Iron man will fly up into the sky and rocket downward toward a stunned Hulk, It shouldn't take too long before he reaches mach 9 speeds. Before impact Iron man will let loose with every weapon he has, keeping hulk down until the last moment where iron man braces for impact and hits Hulk dead-on. K.O.

Boom!

In the end Tony is just too fast for the Hulk, he can attack multiple times from many different angles with ease. Not to mention a giant green mound of muscle makes an easy target.

#8 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I have never actually seen you debate for Hulk, best of luck mate :)

Thank you. And yes this should be different then most of my debates.

@thedckid: For future reference please hit the reply button.

When the battle starts Iron man will activate his stealth function and become completely invisible to Hulk, he will position himself directly behind Hulk and hit him with a barrage of repulsor blasts. As seen in the scan below, Tony's repulsor's can level buildings and can be shot at the speed of thought.

May I see a scan of the stealth function? I thought iron man had a stealth suit but I was unaware of a stealth function.

Leveling building is pretty much nothing to the hulk.

Here the hulk managed to tank a beam of energy which ultron used to melt and reform his adamantium body.

Also here is a scan from indestructible hulk #2 where he tanks iron mans repulsor blasts. Admittedly iron man has had a down grade from bleeding edge however it is still above the armor that you posted scans of.

As you can see it didn't do a lot of damage to the hulk. In addition to the hulks extremely durable tissue you also have to prove that iron man can get around hulks healing factor.

Here the hulk gets the flesh burned from his bones and he regenerates quite quickly.

Point being even if iron man can do damage (which if he can likely isn't going to be a whole lot) Hulk can recover.

This probably wont end the fight though, so immediately after Iron man hits Hulk with the repulsors he will then unleash a fleat of missiles to further wound the Hulk. The effectiveness of the missiles is demonstrated below.

Red hulk doesn't really have the same durability and healing factor as hulk. For example red hulk stated wolverine could kill him. Wolverine can't really kill the hulk because hulk heals so fast that it makes it seems like Logan is barely cutting him. Red hulk has gotten the better of hulk in a few showings but I believe that was mainly due to Rulks skill as opposed to his stats (I haven't really looked at that fight in awhile so I might have to review).

Point being red hulk and hulk have different stats. Just because one can do serious damage to red hulk does not necessarily mean they can do serious damage to hulk.

Finally Iron man will fly up into the sky and rocket downward toward a stunned Hulk, It shouldn't take too long before he reaches mach 9 speeds. Before impact Iron man will let loose with every weapon he has, keeping hulk down until the last moment where iron man braces for impact and hits Hulk dead-on. K.O.

Hulk is capable of jumping after iron man so he can compensate for his flight advantage.

In the above scans hulk manages to leap into the outer atmosphere. So no matter how high iron man flies the hulk can reach him. He could also use thunderclaps to tag iron man as well if he needs to.

Iron mans ability to KO hulk was discussed above.

In the end Tony is just too fast for the Hulk, he can attack multiple times from many different angles with ease. Not to mention a giant green mound of muscle makes an easy target.

Iron man is faster, no doubt about that however Hulk isn't slow on contrary to popular belief.

Here are some random assorted speed feats:

Dodging a RPG, spinning so fast reed flies off him, catching caps shield, moving so fast some people can't tag the hulk, using super speed to save iron man from an explosion.

This and his area of effect lead me to believe he can tag iron man. With his healing factor and durability Tony will have issues putting hulk down. I say hulk tags iron man before iron man knocks him out.

#9 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Your right, he has stealth armour but I don't think he has stealth mode in his new armour. But he can still project illusions as seen here:

Rather than turning invisible he just projects an illusion of himself to distract Hulk in order to position himself for an attack. Considering savage Hulk is not very bright he will undoubtedly fall for this ploy. When Iron man is in position he will let lose a storm of repulsor blasts and missiles effectively stunning the Hulk (this shouldn't be too difficult as savage Hulk doesn't start out that strong) Iron man then grabs hold of Hulk and rockets upward into the atmosphere. Tony now has 2 options.

1- drop hulk and let him hurtle toward earth at incredible velocities.

or

2- throw him into space effectively BFR'ing him.

#11 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedckid:

Your right, he has stealth armour but I don't think he has stealth mode in his new armour. But he can still project illusions as seen here:

Rather than turning invisible he just projects an illusion of himself to distract Hulk in order to position himself for an attack. Considering savage Hulk is not very bright he will undoubtedly fall for this ploy.

At some point hulk is going to get frustrated and use a thunder clap. When he does this the real iron man is going to get exposed. Hulk can attack the iron man who goes flying several feet

Hulk causes a ground pound which is felt in denmark (he was in colorado), hurts hyperion with thunderclaps, causes a thunder clap which puts the most fiercest hurricane to shame, causes a ground pound which is so powerful "no other power except thor could have done"
The hulk causes earth quakes around the planet as a result of his punches (admittedly he was in the earths core when he did this)

Point being is eventually hulk will get frustrated (which will only make him stronger) and he will resort to a attack which is radical.

When Iron man is in position he will let lose a storm of repulsor blasts and missiles effectively stunning the Hulk (this shouldn't be too difficult as savage Hulk doesn't start out that strong)

I have scans of Hulk tanking a blast which was used to melt adamantium. Do you have proof iron mans repulsor blasts can do sufficient damage? I doubt it would stun hulk that much.

Iron man then grabs hold of Hulk and rockets upward into the atmosphere. Tony now has 2 options.

1- drop hulk and let him hurtle toward earth at incredible velocities.

or

2- throw him into space effectively BFR'ing him.

Well win is by KO/Death/Incapacitation so BFR is out. And even so its going to take a long time for iron man to reach those heights and hulk isn't going to sit there. He will punch iron man and smash him as he is being dragged up. Iron man would probably not want to use this tactic. Its going to take him some time to get high enough to KO hulk that way.

#12 Posted by New_World_Order (12950 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice !

#13 Edited by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Iron man is fast, he would get behind Hulk long before Hulk became frustrated.

That adamantium melting laser sounds incredibly hot, but is there any actual force behind it? the repulsors might not be super hot but there is a lot of force behind the blasts.

Iron man is powerful even without his weapons, in under two seconds he can prepare a devastating punch that is equivalent to solid steel moving at 3,500 ft per second:

He punched out She-Hulk:

And tossed around Luke Cage like he was nothing:

Without guns, missiles or repulsor rays Iron man has taken on countless rivals famous for their strength and durability alike, and cosidering he will be using his weapons in this fight, Hulk should go down all the same.

#14 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice !

Thank you!

@thedckid:

Iron man is fast, he would get behind Hulk long before Hulk became frustrated.

I don't doubt that but he isn't going to put hulk down before that happens.

That adamantium melting laser sounds incredibly hot, but is there any actual force behind it? the repulsors might not be super hot but there is a lot of force behind the blasts.

I don't know if there a lot of force behind it however Hulk has great blunt force durability. This is from Avengers #8. Mrs.Marvel tosses hulk into the earth, when they were in outer space.

Iron man is powerful even without his weapons, in under two seconds he can prepare a devastating punch that is equivalent to solid steel moving at 3,500 ft per second:

I don't think that is enough to put the hulk down. Especially keeping the healing factor in mind. IN addition to the stuff all ready posted there is this:

I realize this is grey hulk and not savage hulk however in the scan it states that wolverine had always thought the hulks skin was hard to cut. However in this fight wolverine found out he was wrong. What is actually the case is hulks skin heals so fast it seems like he is barely cutting him. Wolverine can barely keep track of the rate hulk heals so everything iron man does to hulk will be healed almost instantly.

He punched out She-Hulk:

No he didn't. He won that fight by using spin tech or something. Here is the full scan

I think iron man punched she hulk out in avengers disassembled granted but that instance he did not knock out she hulk. Who isn't really as durable as hulk.

And tossed around Luke Cage like he was nothing:

Luke cage isn't as strong and durable as the hulk.

Without guns, missiles or repulsor rays Iron man has taken on countless rivals famous for their strength and durability alike, and cosidering he will be using his weapons in this fight, Hulk should go down all the same.

I haven't seen anything which would prove this yet. I still say hulks durability and healing factor are just to much to overcome.

#15 Edited by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Granted She-Hulk and Luke Cage aren't exactly on Hulk's level. Namor however has proven himself more than once to be a force to reckon with, a force Iron man has previously outfought.

As shown above Tony tanked multiple hits from the sub-mariner and still managed to pull through a win (without using any missiles or rockets I might add) all while donning a now obsolete model of the Iron man armour. And just to further elaborate on how powerful Namor is:

Namor implies he is just as strong as the Hulk.

#16 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedckid: Namor also defeated iron man in a issue of illumanati IIRC (granted I do think iron man should win that fight and I don't have perfect recollection of it). And namor hasn't been as strong as hulk since the 60's-70's. Namor can say what he wants but if we go feat for feat with the two hulk is going to come out looking better. Causing planetary earthquakes as a result of fighting the boar brothers in the earths core, tossing fing fang foom to the moon, going blow for blow with thor, etc. These are things namor cannot do.

#17 Edited by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I would have to agree that Hulk's feats are certainly more impressive than Namors, but Namor has gone "blow for blow" as you put it with Beta Ray Bill before.

Considering BRB and Thor are often thought of as equals, I'd have to think Namor could take on Thor as well (I think he did already but am not sure)

This all shows that Iron man should be able to tank quite a few hit's from Hulk.

#18 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedckid: In that scan thor made it rain which increased namors strength. Also what happens next? Was beta ray bill hurt? Namor also knocked back the real thor but then he was quickly one shotted by thor. So may I ask what happens next between beta ray bill and namor?

#19 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedckid: Also I would like to apologize for the late response but I have been busy.

#20 Edited by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: No need to apologize friend, it happens to all of us.

Anyway, I don't have very many books featuring Namor so that particular scan was borrowed. But judging from Beta Ray Bill's reaction to the punch it was quite powerful. But who won is irrelevant, I'm simply trying to showcase Namors strength (I think I have sufficiently done that) to point out how durable Tony's armour is.

#21 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedckid: The problem with that is it looks like all he did was stagger beta ray bill. I wouldn't say he went blow for blow with him. We don't know what happened so I wouldn't say because iron man fought namor he beats the hulk, because namor punched beta ray bill. And your final scan it looks like iron man had tied namor up with steel and won like that. That wouldn't be enough to hold hulk considering his strength.

Anyways we seem to be going in circles right now so if you want you can have the final post and we can go to voting. It was a good debate.

#22 Posted by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Sorry it took so long (you know how it is)

In closing I'd just like to point out that Iron man has the most going for him in this fight. He is faster, much more intelligent, highly adaptive and on top of that has an arsenal of tools and extremely powerful weapons. Hulk is stronger, but Iron man is no slouch in the strength category, thanks to his suit he can hang with the likes of Luke Cage and Namor among others.

Here are some assorted strength feats:

He held that building up just as well as Hulk

All in all I feel Iron man has what it takes to defeat Hulk.

Thank's for the debate.

#23 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Savage Hulk, nice, one of my faves, and I am sad to not see any real Bleeding Edge that is all the hype.

Anyway Im not convince from the thread IM still has any real edge on Savage Hulk arguments here.

Jash gets my vote.

#25 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Jashro here, nice arguments and rebuttals.

#26 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

#1

Muscle power is all about the speed of muscle contraction. Muscles put out power by stretching and then rapidly shortening like rubber bands.

Force directly correlates to an object's rate of motion/speed.

When you throw a punch or a kick, the power of the strike directly correlates to its rate of motion/speed.

Hulk has great power and his body weight is little in comparison to that power, therefore, he has great speed.

Great power = Great speed

Gamma rays travel at he speed of light. Hulk is a gamma-charged monster. He's extremely fast.

If people actually read the Hulk/Iron man/Avengers/Marvel comics then they'd know that Ironman isn't that strong or fast compared to the Hulk.

#2

It's right there to see in all their fights. Iron man is always struggling with Hulk.

A. Ironman can barely keep up with Hulk

B. His armor isn't tough enough

C. Iron man's transistors can't even begin to match Hulk's power unless connected to a great enough power source.Evn still, there is no power source great enough to completely overcome the Hulk.

D. Iron man's stamina will run out eventually.

In Conclusion,

Iron man is outclassed. Always has been and always will be.

My vote goes to the Hulk obviously. My vote goes to joshro44

#27 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17830 posts) - - Show Bio

HOLY SH*T! i can't believe THIS! Both debaters did pretty well but,...

JASHRO! YOUZ GET MY VOTE! and well done man! your versatility of character understanding knows no bound!

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#28 Edited by dondave (36109 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote Jashro

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#29 Edited by New_World_Order (12950 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes to @jashro44. He countered pretty much everything thrown at him, and solidified why Hulk would beat Iron Man. Very good debate, but comic showings have always shown that Iron Man is no match for the Hulk.

#30 Posted by laflux (15126 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a decent debate. I would go with Jash.

#31 Edited by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: For future reference if you are going to vote please do so based on the argument made.

HOLY SH*T! i can't believe THIS! Both debaters did pretty well but,...

JASHRO! YOUZ GET MY VOTE! and well done man! your versatility of character understanding knows no bound!

Thanks all though to be honest I did use your hulk respect thread for some scans.

#32 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17830 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@dum529001: For future reference if you are going to vote please do so based on the argument made.

@theacidskull said:

HOLY SH*T! i can't believe THIS! Both debaters did pretty well but,...

JASHRO! YOUZ GET MY VOTE! and well done man! your versatility of character understanding knows no bound!

Thanks all though to be honest I did use your hulk respect thread for some scans.

to be honest i am very happy to hear that :), thats the reason why i created that Blog post, though just to put it out there i won't be updating that blog since the new CV has some sort of a limit over the length of blogs LOL, so i made another one for indestructible hulk, it'll have the new hulk feats that will come in the future :D

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#33 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio
#34 Posted by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Well It appears I have been bested. Thank's for participating, It was fun.

#35 Posted by jashro44 (20575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedckid: No problem. It was a good debate. I actually learned a few things about iron man.

#36 Posted by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio