#1 Edited by jashro44 (19888 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadshot

VS

Hawkeye (Ultimate)

Rules

  • Morals are on
  • Random encounter
  • Standard gear
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation

Location

  • Both begin visible
  • Begin on opposite ends
  • Fight takes place here:

@cadencev2 Read through the OP to make sure everything is good, and if it is feel free to make the first move.

#2 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be awesome

#3 Posted by laflux (14336 posts) - - Show Bio

looking forward to this :)

Online
#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Alright with me. For standard Gear i think I should List Hawkeye Dual Handguns, Bow, Arrows, and Trick Arrows.

Time for some Hawkeye feats.

Super Sight and Twitch Factor

Clint has 2 unique powers, Super Sight and Twitch Factor.

These scans describe fully what his abilities are. It allows him to Obtain Incredible Accuracy.

This Combo extends to close combat.

1-2) Targets the Tooth with the Homing Tracker Device.

3) Takes down Omega Level Mutates with one move.

Extends to throwing weapons.

1) Pen through Interrogation Glass.

2) Kitchen Utensils.

3) Throwing Cards.

4) Glass.

Accuracy with inaccurate weapons.

Like this impossible mile shot distance at a target moving over 100 MPH. With a RPG!

Also it allowed HE to perform the infamous Fingernail of Death scene.

Killed a room of body armored foes with his Finger Nails!

It also applies to his skill.

As shown here with catching up to Cap, using his parachute, then guiding them both down safely.

Speed

This Twitch Factor also allows for rapid firing attacks with the bow.

1) 3 Shots near instant of each other.

2-3) Notice the 3-4 arrows right behind and inches from the next. Arrows from a compound bow can travel up 400 FPS! That is insanely fast to knock and loose that many arrows at a time.

Clint's speed is not always in the Twitch Factor. He simply moves real fast.

1-2) Out of 200+ SHIELD agents, HE was th only one with speed to get to the safest place with only 2 seconds to spare before this bomb blew, saving another agent too.

3-5) HE with guns to his head kills a room full of baddies.

6) Standard Bullet dodging from the Korean Military.

7-8) Black Widow is super human enhance with Speed, Agility, and all that jazz. She could not dodge any of HE's shots. She is not even injured in this hospitable, she was trying to lay low!

Skill

HE is also a very skilled Tactician.

He is Furies right hand man and leads all the Black Ops teams for Shield. As well co led the Ultimate Avengers.

Now that is out of the way it seems clear we both have Super Accurate people. The big difference is Hawkeye has confirm Super Sight and is insanely fast thanks to his Twitch Factor.

What this come down to who can fire and react first. Hawkeye wins that quick draw. With both Handguns out he will lay down a hail of bullets as Deadshot is still bringing his weapon to aim.

#5 Posted by jashro44 (19888 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Alright with me. For standard Gear i think I should List Hawkeye Dual Handguns, Bow, Arrows, and Trick Arrows.

Time for some Hawkeye feats.

All right. For deadshot standard gear would be his suit, modified writ gauntlets and modified pistols, standard bullets and his explosive rounds.

Clint has 2 unique powers, Super Sight and Twitch Factor.

These scans describe fully what his abilities are. It allows him to Obtain Incredible Accuracy.

This Combo extends to close combat.

1-2) Targets the Tooth with the Homing Tracker Device.

3) Takes down Omega Level Mutates with one move.

Extends to throwing weapons.

This is all very impressive however I believe despite ultimate hawkeyes twitch factor Deadshot still has the accuracy edge (I will get into that later in my post though), and all though these abilities may help in melee neither of these characters are the close combat type so its safe to say this is going to be a distance fight.

1) Pen through Interrogation Glass.

2) Kitchen Utensils.

3) Throwing Cards.

4) Glass.

Deadshot doesn't have many showings with out his guns (the only showings that come to mind are stalemating green arrow in a game of darts and recently he killed some guards with scalpels) however I don't think he needs to be experienced in throwing weapons. He has his guns here and he knows how to use them effectively.

Accuracy with inaccurate weapons.

Like this impossible mile shot distance at a target moving over 100 MPH. With a RPG!

Pretty impressive. All though Deadshot has also performed some pretty impossible shots himself such as being able to casually ricocheting a bullet off of a pole.

Also it allowed HE to perform the infamous Fingernail of Death scene.

Killed a room of body armored foes with his Finger Nails!

Pretty much what I said above concerning Ultimate hawkeyes skills with throwing weapons. All though this is very impressive I think considering they both have standard gear here it mostly matters how effectively they can use there gear and I think Deadshot may have the edge there.

It also applies to his skill.

As shown here with catching up to Cap, using his parachute, then guiding them both down safely.

Pretty cool but its not really a combat feat.

Speed

This Twitch Factor also allows for rapid firing attacks with the bow.

1) 3 Shots near instant of each other.

2-3) Notice the 3-4 arrows right behind and inches from the next. Arrows from a compound bow can travel up 400 FPS! That is insanely fast to knock and loose that many arrows at a time.

Clint's speed is not always in the Twitch Factor. He simply moves real fast.

1-2) Out of 200+ SHIELD agents, HE was th only one with speed to get to the safest place with only 2 seconds to spare before this bomb blew, saving another agent too.

3-5) HE with guns to his head kills a room full of baddies.

6) Standard Bullet dodging from the Korean Military.

7-8) Black Widow is super human enhance with Speed, Agility, and all that jazz. She could not dodge any of HE's shots. She is not even injured in this hospitable, she was trying to lay low!

Impressive. As for Deadshots speed here is some stuff for Deadshot:

View from right to left

The first scan Deadshot shoots Mister Miracles areo-disks. Just to give you an idea how fast those disks are:

This is Orion, he is catching a bullet effortlessly

Here is Mister Miracle dancing around Orion with ease (there both clearly utilizing there super human speed too)

Now Miracle wasn't even using his areo-disk which allows him to move even faster when he was evading orion. Yet Deadshot had the needed reflexes to shoot his disk.

The next 2 scans are scans of deadshot killing a speedster which explains itself.

The next 3 scans are a showing of him stalemating deathstroke in a quick draw. Slade is an enhanced human with his reaction time enhanced. His reflexes are good enough to do this:

Yet deadshot can tag deathstroke and match his reflexes in a quick draw.

As far as dodging feats for Deadshot go:

View from right to left

First scan deadshot heres a sniper and then dodges the bullet by titlting his head to the side, next scan he evades some blasts from Fire showing some nice agility, next 4 show him dodging a car that was tossed at him by knock out (the whole thing is uploaded to show deadshot missed those shots on purpose).

So I think Reflexes should go to Deadshot.

Skill

HE is also a very skilled Tactician.

He is Furies right hand man and leads all the Black Ops teams for Shield. As well co led the Ultimate Avengers.

Deadshot is fairly tactical himself being one of DC's best mercenaries. Not sure if he is smarter then ultimate hawkeye but he is pretty smart.

Now that is out of the way it seems clear we both have Super Accurate people. The big difference is Hawkeye has confirm Super Sight and is insanely fast thanks to his Twitch Factor.

What this come down to who can fire and react first. Hawkeye wins that quick draw. With both Handguns out he will lay down a hail of bullets as Deadshot is still bringing his weapon to aim.

All though Ultimate Hawkeye is fast I think Deadshot is faster. With feats like matching Deathstroke and shooting miracles areo-disk before he can close the gap I think that gives him the edge. And all though deadshot isn't officially ranked as an enhanced human he has stated his perception is advanced enough to see the beat of a humming birds wings.

Also on the subject of Ultimate hawkeye going for pistols that might not be his best move. Deadshots suit is bullet proof to an extent which allows him to take a few bullets (not to mention his pain tolerance).

So even if ultimate Hawkeye does win the draw using his pistols Deadshot will still be able to draw his guns and he will still win the fight.

#6 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

This is all very impressive however I believe despite ultimate hawkeyes twitch factor Deadshot still has the accuracy edge (I will get into that later in my post though), and all though these abilities may help in melee neither of these characters are the close combat type so its safe to say this is going to be a distance fight.

Deadshot doesn't have many showings with out his guns (the only showings that come to mind are stalemating green arrow in a game of darts and recently he killed some guards with scalpels) however I don't think he needs to be experienced in throwing weapons. He has his guns here and he knows how to use them effectively.

Pretty impressive. All though Deadshot has also performed some pretty impossible shots himself such as being able to casually ricocheting a bullet off of a pole.

Pretty much what I said above concerning Ultimate hawkeyes skills with throwing weapons. All though this is very impressive I think considering they both have standard gear here it mostly matters how effectively they can use there gear and I think Deadshot may have the edge there.

The point of the scans of his Accuracy is it is not limited to guns. Which makes him most versatile. To be extremely accurate with guns is nice, but only so long as you have the ammo. Hawkeye proves his super human accuracy with anything.

Impressive. As for Deadshots speed here is some stuff for Deadshot:

The first scan Deadshot shoots Mister Miracles areo-disks. Just to give you an idea how fast those disks are:

Now Miracle wasn't even using his areo-disk which allows him to move even faster when he was evading orion. Yet Deadshot had the needed reflexes to shoot his disk.

The next 2 scans are scans of deadshot killing a speedster which explains itself.

The next 3 scans are a showing of him stalemating deathstroke in a quick draw. Slade is an enhanced human with his reaction time enhanced. His reflexes are good enough to do this:

Yet deadshot can tag deathstroke and match his reflexes in a quick draw.

As far as dodging feats for Deadshot go:

First scan deadshot heres a sniper and then dodges the bullet by titlting his head to the side, next scan he evades some blasts from Fire showing some nice agility, next 4 show him dodging a car that was tossed at him by knock out (the whole thing is uploaded to show deadshot missed those shots on purpose).

So I think Reflexes should go to Deadshot.

I still do not think Deadshot is superior at all in Reflexes.

At the end of the Invasion, whos job was it to put down Hulk where a Team of Ultimates failed to the first time? Thats right, Hawkeyes! This was right after Hawkeye was shot with a 5.56 Round through the shoulder. Never threw his game off.

HE One Shots the Genetic Enhance Kraven.

HE takes out Toad and Rogue with Toad's Power. Both having incredible dodging and agility.

HE survives a Ambushing Sabertooth. HE reacts and fires back. After this mauling he still continues the fight.

HE's rematch with Sabes lol. Great Showing of Accuracy as Sabes is struggling on top of Angel. Alot of thrashing and movement, yet perfect eye shot.

No what do all this have in common? All these characters are considered bullet timers. Except Hulk who is just hauling 200 MPH and jumping from Chopper to Chopper.

But to really see how fast and accurate Hawkeye is, we can go to his battle with Spider Man.

HE's ultimate showing in skill vs non other than Ultimate Spider Man himself. HE wins. He baiscaly tags Spider Man with a Sleeping Dart, Spideys Senses him too late, gets hit, and then tries to get away. Hawkeye speed and accuracy is so great he shot out Spider Mans webs! Then dodge most of the web attacks from Spidey.

I seriously do not see Deadshot fairing better against Ultimate Spidey. I have the scans to show how good at dodging Spidey is.

Scan 1 Ultimate Spidey does have Spider Sense to utilize his speed and agility best.

Scan 2-3 Spidey dodges bullets after they are fired and less than 20 feet away. Just dances around them.

Scan 4 Spidey dances around Chain Guns from Weapon X soldiers.

Scan 5 Spidey easily dodges Assault Rifles fired by Swat Teams.

Yet Hawkeye more than keeps up while holding back on Spidey. If he was going for the kill, he could of easily done it.

All though Ultimate Hawkeye is fast I think Deadshot is faster. With feats like matching Deathstroke and shooting miracles areo-disk before he can close the gap I think that gives him the edge. And all though deadshot isn't officially ranked as an enhanced human he has stated his perception is advanced enough to see the beat of a humming birds wings.

This proves he he can see slow motion, but move faster! Nope. Hawkeye can see slow motion and move fast. This scans prove that Deadshot is peak human speed and not super fast himself.

Also on the subject of Ultimate hawkeye going for pistols that might not be his best move. Deadshots suit is bullet proof to an extent which allows him to take a few bullets (not to mention his pain tolerance).

So even if ultimate Hawkeye does win the draw using his pistols Deadshot will still be able to draw his guns and he will still win the fight.

Since Hawkeye wears military grade Kevlar suit, he can tank bullets as well. Also Hawkeye tends to go for head shots, and I do not seeing any head gear that bounces bullets off.

Add to this Hawkeyes insane pain tolerance as well.

HE unarmed kills most of these Rogue SHIELD agents while shot up.

HE killing his Liberation interrogators and guards. This is days afterbeing shot. He was for days Drugged and Tortured. No hindrance in performance.

Both of these showings show that insane accuracy with anything in his hands and ability to go on should he get shot by bullets, through his Kevlar Suit.

Also Hawkeye skill and bullet dodging is superior enough to single handily kill the Korean Army while his Squad moves into safety zone.

Hawkeye is the man Fury calls in to deal with the worst threats.

#7 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

This is gunna be a good one.

#8 Posted by Fetts (4421 posts) - - Show Bio

Looking good! Hope to see some good Deadshot scans. I feel like there aren't a lot of those around.

@cadencev2 I'm curious. Has Ult. Hawkeye been in anything good lately? I read his 4-issue series, and I thought he was pretty BA in that. But I haven't seen any other title appearances as of late.

#9 Posted by HyperViper97 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

I love that people keep challenging cadence when he gets ultimates. That's his thing

#10 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts said:

Looking good! Hope to see some good Deadshot scans. I feel like there aren't a lot of those around.

@cadencev2 I'm curious. Has Ult. Hawkeye been in anything good lately? I read his 4-issue series, and I thought he was pretty BA in that. But I haven't seen any other title appearances as of late.

Not yet. I have not read anything from the United We Stand and forward yet. I have the Issues now, just playing catch up with Ultimate Spider Man, and in a month should be current with all the Ultimate Books.

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#12 Posted by jashro44 (19888 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Sorry it took me so long to get back to this.

The point of the scans of his Accuracy is it is not limited to guns. Which makes him most versatile. To be extremely accurate with guns is nice, but only so long as you have the ammo. Hawkeye proves his super human accuracy with anything.

Well what weapons do you think Ultimate Hawkeye is going to use in this environment? Also I don't think the fight is going to drag on that long. We both have two of the best marksmen in comics here so they wont be missing for long. What it comes down to is who can hit who first. And you yourself said this previously:

What this come down to who can fire and react first. Hawkeye wins that quick draw. With both Handguns out he will lay down a hail of bullets as Deadshot is still bringing his weapon to aim.

So you seem to think this is about the quick draw. So I do doubt either Deadshot or ultimate hawkeye will run out of ammo before the other is dead.

I still do not think Deadshot is superior at all in Reflexes.

I don't know if any of these showings are better then the ones I have posted.

At the end of the Invasion, whos job was it to put down Hulk where a Team of Ultimates failed to the first time? Thats right, Hawkeyes! This was right after Hawkeye was shot with a 5.56 Round through the shoulder. Never threw his game off.

Problem with Ultimate hulk is that he is a brick. He tanks attacks rather then dodges them. I don't think Ultimate hulk has any avoidance feats at all.

HE One Shots the Genetic Enhance Kraven.

Not bad all though Kraven was running in the opposite direction as ultimate hawkeye and was moving in a straight line. Mister miracle was moving towards Deadshot so Deadshot only had limited time to react for example due to miracles speed. Yet despite Miracle (who is a speedster), wasn't fast enough to blitz deadshot, not to deadshot was fast enough to aim his shot where he wanted it to go.

HE takes out Toad and Rogue with Toad's Power. Both having incredible dodging and agility.

This is really impressive. However I don't think Rogue is suepioer at dodging then deathstroke. In the above scans Deadshot does tag deathstroke in addition to matching his reflexes. Slade only walks away due to his armor.

HE survives a Ambushing Sabertooth. HE reacts and fires back. After this mauling he still continues the fight.

Hawkeye mainly survived this encounter because of his melee abilities with his knife and the tigers that attacked sabretooth. Deadshots approach is different. As both our characters prefer range fighting Hawkeye likely wont have a chance to stab Deadshot in the neck as they wont be in range. I guess he could toss the knife but I imagine he will use his guns and arrows first.

HE's rematch with Sabes lol. Great Showing of Accuracy as Sabes is struggling on top of Angel. Alot of thrashing and movement, yet perfect eye shot.

Impressive but sabretooth wasn't really expecting Hawkeye at this moment. Him hitting the eye is pretty impressive. All though Deadshot has pulled off eye shots as well.

In the above scans Deadshots shoots closer in the eye. It is also a nice showing of his gear and durability (as he also took hits from closer as well who is clearly super human in strength).

No what do all this have in common? All these characters are considered bullet timers. Except Hulk who is just hauling 200 MPH and jumping from Chopper to Chopper.

Do Ultimate Hulk and Ultimate Kraven have bullet dodging feats? I thought Ultimate Sabretooth mostly tanked attacks? Anyways I don't think these guys are as fast as Mister Miracle who is easily fast enough to dance around orion, Deathstroke who has the speed and agility of 10 men, captain boomerang (yes Deadshot didn't tag him but the encounter ended with boomerang having a barrel of a gun to his face) who is faster then the speed of sound. I think the speedsters that Deadshot has tagged are honestly more impressive.

But to really see how fast and accurate Hawkeye is, we can go to his battle with Spider Man.

HE's ultimate showing in skill vs non other than Ultimate Spider Man himself. HE wins. He baiscaly tags Spider Man with a Sleeping Dart, Spideys Senses him too late, gets hit, and then tries to get away. Hawkeye speed and accuracy is so great he shot out Spider Mans webs! Then dodge most of the web attacks from Spidey.

I seriously do not see Deadshot fairing better against Ultimate Spidey. I have the scans to show how good at dodging Spidey is.

Scan 1 Ultimate Spidey does have Spider Sense to utilize his speed and agility best.

Scan 2-3 Spidey dodges bullets after they are fired and less than 20 feet away. Just dances around them.

Scan 4 Spidey dances around Chain Guns from Weapon X soldiers.

Scan 5 Spidey easily dodges Assault Rifles fired by Swat Teams.

Yet Hawkeye more than keeps up while holding back on Spidey. If he was going for the kill, he could of easily done it.

I knew this fight was coming.....Anyways I think there was plot involved. I think Ultimate spider-mans spider-sense should have warned him about the incoming dart and his reflexes should have been good enough to avoid it. Now in the first scan we don't see the spider-sense lines around Peters head indicating that Peter is being warned. So it does seem that Ultimate Peter was caught off guard. If Ultimate Peter can dodge bullets after they are fired as you claim, then that would mean he should have been able to dodge ultimate hawkeyes first shot after it was fired. Meaning Ultimate hawkeye shouldn't be able to tag Ultimate Peter if he is expecting it (at least not on the first shot). In order to tag Ultimate spider-man he would need to set Peter up into a position where Ultimate Peter would be unable to dodge. He didn't do that here.

I wont dismiss the feat entirely but I think the part where he tagged ultimate Peter was plot induced. Logically Peters spider-sense should have warned him a few miliseconds before the bullet was fired and he should have dodged. Even if it only warned after the shot was fired he should have dodged as he has the ability to dodge bullets after they are fired. For some reason ultimate Peters spider-sense didn't go off there.....I have a theory this was because Ultimate Peter was concerned about Aunt May and his thoughts were else where and he didn't listen to his spider-sense. This is something that has happened to 616 spider-man before. Not much of a stretch to say the same thing happened here.

This proves he he can see slow motion, but move faster! Nope. Hawkeye can see slow motion and move fast. This scans prove that Deadshot is peak human speed and not super fast himself.

It ends with Deadshot point a gun at captain boomerangs head before boomerang can throw a punch. That is pretty beyond peak human. I also have scans of him matching Deathstrokes reflexes who is a meta human. His feats show him matching enhanced humans.

Since Hawkeye wears military grade Kevlar suit, he can tank bullets as well. Also Hawkeye tends to go for head shots, and I do not seeing any head gear that bounces bullets off.

Any evidence this Kevlar can take bullets from a gun as high caliber as deadshots? I will show you how powerful deadshots gun is in a minute. Here are your scans of deadshot taking a bullet to the head though:

Things to note about this showing:

  • Deadshot lets the guy shoot him anywhere purposely.
  • When Deadshot walks in he kills almost everyone in the room before the guy threatening deadshots wife can finish his 2 word sentence.
  • After Deadshot gets shot in the face he dodges a point blank bullet.

Even if deadshot does lose the draw (I don't think he will), he still wins the fight. He can take a bullet to the head. Ultimate Hawkeye cannot.

Add to this Hawkeyes insane pain tolerance as well.

HE unarmed kills most of these Rogue SHIELD agents while shot up.

HE killing his Liberation interrogators and guards. This is days afterbeing shot. He was for days Drugged and Tortured. No hindrance in performance.

Both of these showings show that insane accuracy with anything in his hands and ability to go on should he get shot by bullets, through his Kevlar Suit.

Deadshots pain tolerance is pretty impressive as well.

Deadshot has shot himself in the neck just to escape a Green lantern construct.

All though I doubt Hawkeyes Kevlar would hold.

Deadshot has explosives. Ultimate hawkeye will be obliterated if those connect which they likely will.

Deadshots gun is powerful enough to break batman's shoulder and his ribs with using hollow points only.

Deadshots gun can knock out batman using nothing but a coin.

And just to show a good accuracy feat for deadshot and a durability showing for batmans armor to show what kind of power deadshots wrist guns have:

Deadshot shoots batman. But because of batmans armor the sniper bullet doesn't do much to him despite hitting him point blank. Keep in mind Deadshot was using a sniper instead of his wrist guns here.

More bullet feats for batman include:

Point being for deadshot to do stuff like knock batman out with a coin his gun has to be pretty damn powerful. I doubt Hawkeyes kevlar compares to batmans armor. Not only that but Deadshot also goes for headshots quite often.

SO even if Ultimate hawkeyes Kevlar holds against deadshots gun it wont matter as deadshot is likely going to shoot him in the head as well.

HE killing his Liberation interrogators and guards. This is days afterbeing shot. He was for days Drugged and Tortured. No hindrance in performance.

Both of these showings show that insane accuracy with anything in his hands and ability to go on should he get shot by bullets, through his Kevlar Suit.

Also Hawkeye skill and bullet dodging is superior enough to single handily kill the Korean Army while his Squad moves into safety zone.

Hawkeye is the man Fury calls in to deal with the worst threats.

I have scans of deadshot dodging a car tossed at him by knock out, dodging a point blank bullet, dodging fires attacks, dodging a sniper bullet by casually tilting his head to the side but there is also this:

Deadshot killing people and dodging bullets while blindfolded.

#13 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I will reply in a day or 2. You got me wanting to finish reading United We Stand for more Hawkeye and Cap Awesomeness.

#14 Edited by jashro44 (19888 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I will reply in a day or 2. You got me wanting to finish reading United We Stand for more Hawkeye and Cap Awesomeness.

All right. Looking forward to your response!

#15 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Well what weapons do you think Ultimate Hawkeye is going to use in this environment? Also I don't think the fight is going to drag on that long. We both have two of the best marksmen in comics here so they wont be missing for long. What it comes down to is who can hit who first. And you yourself said this previously:

So you seem to think this is about the quick draw. So I do doubt either Deadshot or ultimate hawkeye will run out of ammo before the other is dead.

There is another Scenario that is classic Hawkeye I will bring up at the bottom.

I don't know if any of these showings are better then the ones I have posted.

I think Deasthstroke shown Peak Human Speed, Hawkeye however has stated Super Human Twitch Factor in speed and has legit super human speed feats.

Problem with Ultimate hulk is that he is a brick. He tanks attacks rather then dodges them. I don't think Ultimate hulk has any avoidance feats at all.

True, the point is Hawkeye is hitting a 200 MPH target jumping all over the place on copters and everything. What makes it more important is Hawkeye was shot in the shoulder with a 5.56 M-16 Round! He was severly wounded in his shoulder and still perfect aim!

Not bad all though Kraven was running in the opposite direction as ultimate hawkeye and was moving in a straight line. Mister miracle was moving towards Deadshot so Deadshot only had limited time to react for example due to miracles speed. Yet despite Miracle (who is a speedster), wasn't fast enough to blitz deadshot, not to deadshot was fast enough to aim his shot where he wanted it to go.

Impressive, however as noted Miracle was running towards him and much like Flash who is tagged by Peak Humans all the time, not much a speed feat as there is no indecation he was moving Super Speed. At least Kraven was remarked on his super human speed from the genetic enhancements.

This is really impressive. However I don't think Rogue is suepioer at dodging then deathstroke. In the above scans Deadshot does tag deathstroke in addition to matching his reflexes. Slade onlywalks away due to his armor.

I think Rogue is with Toads super Agility and Leap power. Also Hawkeye bagged both Toad and Rogue at the same time. Not just Rogue.

Hawkeye mainly survived this encounter because of his melee abilities with his knife and the tigers that attacked sabretooth. Deadshots approach is different. As both our characters prefer range fighting Hawkeye likely wont have a chance to stab Deadshot in the neck as they wont be in range. I guess he could toss the knife but I imagine he will use his guns and arrows first.

Fact is Sabertooth has Blitz Angel, Wolverine, Wolverines Son, and even Captain America once! He suprise attacks and ambushes Hawkeye. Hawkeye meanwhile shows legit reaction time to this.

Impressive but sabretooth wasn't really expecting Hawkeye at this moment. Him hitting the eye is pretty impressive. All though Deadshot has pulled off eye shots as well.

Go ahead and Eye shot Thrashing Tiger from over 30 feet away with one hand. Let me know if its easy.

No what do all this have in common? All these characters are considered bullet timers. Except Hulk who is just hauling 200 MPH and jumping from Chopper to Chopper.

Do Ultimate Hulk and Ultimate Kraven have bullet dodging feats? I thought Ultimate Sabretooth mostly tanked attacks? Anyways I don't think these guys are as fast as Mister Miracle who is easily fast enough to dance around orion, Deathstroke who has the speed and agility of 10 men, captain boomerang (yes Deadshot didn't tag him but the encounter ended with boomerang having a barrel of a gun to his face) who is faster then the speed of sound. I think the speedsters that Deadshot has tagged are honestly more impressive.

Here is the point your missing. Deadshot is not as fast as any of these guys from what I seen. He has fast perceptions, just not fast Combat Speed. Deadshot tags speedsters due to fast perception. He still moves his body at peak human speeds.

HE has super human perception and speed thanks to the twitch factor. That is the point your failing to address.

Scans above explain his super human sight and twitch factor to increase his speed in perception and body.

I knew this fight was coming.....Anyways I think there was plot involved. I think Ultimate spider-mans spider-sense should have warned him about the incoming dart and his reflexes should have been good enough to avoid it. Now in the first scan we don't see the spider-sense lines around Peters head indicating that Peter is being warned. So it does seem that Ultimate Peter was caught off guard. If Ultimate Peter can dodge bullets after they are fired as you claim, then that would mean he should have been able to dodge ultimate hawkeyes first shot after it was fired. Meaning Ultimate hawkeye shouldn't be able to tag Ultimate Peter if he is expecting it (at least not on the first shot). In order to tag Ultimate spider-man he would need to set Peter up into a position where Ultimate Peter would be unable to dodge. He didn't do that here.

I wont dismiss the feat entirely but I think the part where he tagged ultimate Peter was plot induced. Logically Peters spider-sense should have warned him a few miliseconds before the bullet was fired and he should have dodged. Even if it only warned after the shot was fired he should have dodged as he has the ability to dodge bullets after they are fired. For some reason ultimate Peters spider-sense didn't go off there.....I have a theory this was because Ultimate Peter was concerned about Aunt May and his thoughts were else where and he didn't listen to his spider-sense. This is something that has happened to 616 spider-man before. Not much of a stretch to say the same thing happened here.

Your missing the biggest parts here.

AS SEEN...... HE is shooting out Spider Man's Webs so Spidey cannot escape. This is nothing PIS, HE was not trying to harm Spidey at all, so really look at this feat.

1) Shot Peter wit Tranq Dart.

2) Shot all of Pete's Webbing!

3) Dodges Petes web ball offensive!

Hawkeye simply has super human speed and sight!

It ends with Deadshot point a gun at captain boomerangs head before boomerang can throw a punch. That is pretty beyond peak human. I also have scans of him matching Deathstrokes reflexes who is a meta human. His feats show him matching enhanced humans.

Because Boomerang has only short burst of speed and Deadshot can predict where he will be.

Your telling me Batman is faster than Flash now?

Any evidence this Kevlar can take bullets from a gun as high caliber as deadshots? I will show you how powerful deadshots gun is in a minute. Here are your scans of deadshot taking a bullet to the head though:

Things to note about this showing:

  • Deadshot lets the guy shoot him anywhere purposely.
  • When Deadshot walks in he kills almost everyone in the room before the guy threatening deadshots wife can finish his 2 word sentence.
  • After Deadshot gets shot in the face he dodges a point blank bullet.

Even if deadshot does lose the draw (I don't think he will), he still wins the fight. He can take a bullet to the head. Ultimate Hawkeye cannot.

Good thing Hawkeyes Arrows (Should he go bow option are Armour Piercing and pierce Super Human Soldiers.

So if guns fail, he can take cover and switch to arrows.

Deadshots pain tolerance is pretty impressive as well.

Deadshot has shot himself in the neck just to escape a Green lantern construct.

All though I doubt Hawkeyes Kevlar would hold.

And just to show a good accuracy feat for deadshot and a durability showing for batmans armor to show what kind of power deadshots wrist guns have:

More bullet feats for batman include:

Point being for deadshot to do stuff like knock batman out with a coin his gun has to be pretty damn powerful. I doubt Hawkeyes kevlar compares to batmans armor. Not only that but Deadshot also goes for headshots quite often.

SO even if Ultimate hawkeyes Kevlar holds against deadshots gun it wont matter as deadshot is likely going to shoot him in the head as well.

All good points however irrelevant when Hawkeye fires first and move to cover with his super speed. Good chance he will not get shot at all and know to switch to Armour Piercing arrows and Trick arrows.

Now at first it may seem like arrows < Bullets. However Hawk can lay down so many arrows faster than a machine gun with incredible accuracy.

1) 3 simultaneously head shots.

2) A Kree ridled with arrows before he hits the floor.

3-4) Notice the 3-4 arrows right behind and inches from the next. Arrows from a compound bow can travel up 400 FPS! That is insanely fast to knock and loose that many arrows at a time.

5) A Troll with double eye shots from arrows while HE is killing many others in the same second.

6) Riddling a entire squad of Super Human Liberation.

7) 3 Liberation Soldiers hit with arrows in a mid leap.

He lays down so many arrows. This is all Armor Piercing Arrows. Not even the good stuff yet. Trick arrows he can use!

1) Adamantium Tip Serum Arrow.

2-3) Explosive Arrow Heads.

4) Flash Bang Arrow.

5) Grapple Line Arrow.

6) The famous Nuke Arrow.

7) Bola and Taser Arrow.

8-9) Tranq Arrow.

All this and more. The most useful could be a Taser Arrow, how will body armour deal with that? Orthe best the once needed only Nuke arrow? Explosive Arrows? A well place Flash Bang?

I have scans of deadshot dodging a car tossed at him by knock out, dodging a point blank bullet, dodging fires attacks, dodging a sniper bullet by casually tilting his head to the side but there is also this:

Thats all good and all but seriously. Hawkeye is not your average Marksmen.

1-2) Free falling thru the air to hit the Ace of Spades.

3-4) Eye Shots and Charging Suicide Bomber Maddox.

5-6) In a war zone, upside down, and flying by fast on a copter, finds and takes out Enchantress.

7) Eye shots a thrashing Sabertooth.

8) 3 head shots from rapid fire.

9) fighting a troll army and still make double eye shots!

10-11) Killing Super Human Liberation with a few arrows in the organs.

12-13) Black Widow is super human enhance with Speed, Agility, and all that jazz. She could not dodge any of HE's shots. She is not even injured in this hospitable, she was trying to lay low!

14) Hitting the non lethal spots on Giant Men to keep them at bay.

Thats all Arrows. He is as accurate with his guns.

1) Blows up a Warmachine with a machine gun?! Nothing short of super human accuracy there.

2) Shoots out Spidey's Webs as he tries to get away.

3) With 2 hand guns takes out a entire mafia drug cartel. Accuracy playing a role with the looks of Head Shots and Heart Shots.

4) more of shootingout Spidey's webs to keep from being incaped.

Ultimate HE is such a superior level of accuracy than any of those scans for Deadshot.

As for Durability, HE really has that in spades.

1-2) Large powerful blast and concrete slab on his body, back in the fight.

3-4) Hit by hellfire with his team, only one to get back up.

5-6) Mach 10 Hurrican beats the hell out of him with super momentum punches, HE gets right back up.

Hawkeye is far more tougher than Deadshot as these scans and the scans of him being shot and tortured.

Just to sum up why Hawkeye is the bomb.

HE appearance with his partner Black Widow. A whole thing of HE cleaning house and why tagging Black Widow is a good feat.

HE gets jumped by the Defenders, and with Tigra on his back still manages to eye shot Black Knight!

Another of HE's best showings. here Clint takes on 3 Omega Level Mutates. The red one alone ripped a Helicarrier in half Magneto Style. HE beats all 3 of them while starting off Unarmed!

To sum it up, Hawkeye is not only the better soldier here, he is the better range fighter thanks to Twitch Factor, Super Sight, and Trick Arrows. He simply has more going for him than Deadshot who has nothing but guns and super human accuracy.

After this we can go to vote.

#16 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Edited by jashro44 (19888 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

I think Deasthstroke shown Peak Human Speed, Hawkeye however has stated Super Human Twitch Factor in speed and has legit super human speed feats.

Nope deathstroke is super human. He stated so himself while evading marvel JR.

Also it has been stated that Deathstroke thinks 12X faster then the average human and he moves his reflexes as fast as he thinks. So that would mean Slades reflexes. Now the average person thinks roughly between 300-500miliseconds. Slade thinking a dozon times faster would mean that he thinks 25-41.66 miliseconds. He also has the ability to move as fast as he thinks (the average human has to send messages from there brain to there body, Slade for some reason doesn't have to do that) so that would mean he can move his reflexes in that time span as well. Deadshot being able to match Slade in a quick draw is a serious feat IMO.

"By the time we react he is all ready a dozen moves ahead"

And Slade moves as fast as he thinks.

True, the point is Hawkeye is hitting a 200 MPH target jumping all over the place on copters and everything. What makes it more important is Hawkeye was shot in the shoulder with a 5.56 M-16 Round! He was severly wounded in his shoulder and still perfect aim!

Its a good feat but I don't think its better then anything posted for deadshot.

Impressive, however as noted Miracle was running towards him and much like Flash who is tagged by Peak Humans all the time, not much a speed feat as there is no indecation he was moving Super Speed. At least Kraven was remarked on his super human speed from the genetic enhancements.

Admittedly yes you are correct it isn't stated how fast miracle was moving. However we do know this:Deadshot has also reacted to a speedster like captain boomerang who moves faster then sound. He has also matched the reflexes of deathstroke who also tags speedsters who likely are moving at mach speeds. So deadshot has consistently been able to react to speedsters and he matches the reflexes of someone who also tags speedsters.

And IMO even if miracle is moving at 1/10th his normal speed he is still faster then ultimate kraven.

I think Rogue is with Toads super Agility and Leap power. Also Hawkeye bagged both Toad and Rogue at the same time. Not just Rogue.

Slade is quite agile. I all ready went over his reflexes above so a quick agility feat for deathstroke:

Next page he does a maneuver to avoid the truck as well.

Dodges enemy attacks and cross the room in an instant. Also explains he sees things like a frozen snap shot.

So Deathstroke is very quick and agile. I am not sure what toad has done to say he can top Slades agility feats. Thrown in with the fact Slade has a decent margin of skill I would say tagging Deathstroke is more impressive then tagging toad personally.

Fact is Sabertooth has Blitz Angel, Wolverine, Wolverines Son, and even Captain America once! He suprise attacks and ambushes Hawkeye. Hawkeye meanwhile shows legit reaction time to this.

My mistake I didn't realize you were using it as a reaction feat. I don't know how impressive ultimate angel is, but ultimate wolverine has defeated ultimate sabretooth multiple and even stomped him in the fast (he even beat him in one move), Ultimate Logans son is a bit of a noob (I don't know if he has any good reflex feats) and didn't sabretooth lose that fight? Same thing with ultimate cap, didn't he beat sabretooth? So I am a little skeptical on these blitzes.

Not saying it isn't impressive but I don't know if its that impressive.

Go ahead and Eye shot Thrashing Tiger from over 30 feet away with one hand. Let me know if its easy.

I never said it was easy. I just said that I don't think its something deadshot couldn't do. He did make a eye shot and sabretooth was lashing around, however he also wasn't paying attention. It is possible if sabretooth was paying attention he may have been able to avoid it.

Here is the point your missing. Deadshot is not as fast as any of these guys from what I seen. He has fast perceptions, just not fast Combat Speed. Deadshot tags speedsters due to fast perception. He still moves his body at peak human speeds.

HE has super human perception and speed thanks to the twitch factor. That is the point your failing to address. Scans above explain his super human sight and twitch factor to increase his speed in perception and body.

I have addressed it. Its why I brought up Deadshots quick draw with Slade who is an enhanced/low level super human. In order to tag speedsters he needs to be able to move his reflexes accordingly. Sure on paper hawkeye maybe quicker but based on feats Deadshot seems to have the better quickdraw feats, and the characters he tags are faster then the ones ultimate hawkeye tags.

Your missing the biggest parts here.

AS SEEN...... HE is shooting out Spider Man's Webs so Spidey cannot escape. This is nothing PIS, HE was not trying to harm Spidey at all, so really look at this feat.

1) Shot Peter wit Tranq Dart.

2) Shot all of Pete's Webbing!

3) Dodges Petes web ball offensive!

Hawkeye simply has super human speed and sight!

The only part i really felt the need to address with this showing was the part about him tagging ultimate Peter. Which I still feel is plot. For some reason ultimate Peters spider-sense never went off. Thats why he was tagged. If it it did, he wouldn't have been caught off guard and wouldn't have been shot by Ultimate hawkeye IMO.

Shooting the webbing is impressive and so is dodging it but it ahsn't really been clocked at a specific speed before. We don't know how fast his webbing is. Deadshot has dodged bullets which move faster then webbing. Not to mention ultimate Peter was a bit off his game thanks to his initial tranq shot (which I still say was plot)

Because Boomerang has only short burst of speed and Deadshot can predict where he will be.

The underlined part is exactly the point. A key skill of marksmen ship is being able to anticipate your enemies moves, in order to set them up and make it easier for them to tag you. For example even though batman has shown he can dodge bullets after they are fired deadshot can predict his moves and tag him. Deadshot couldn't tag boomerang with reflexes alone because boomerang has all ready proven to be faster then his bullets (hence why boomerang was able to deflect all his shots using paper clips). But since deadshot could anticipate him, he was able to pin him with his gun and could have shot boomerang if he wanted to. He can likewise anticipate ultimate hawkeyes moves making it easier to tag him.

Captain boomerang deflecting deadshots bullets with paper clips.

This skill is required for any marksmen. Its how someone like punisher tags someone like spider-man. Even though spider-man has dodged bullets after they are fired punisher can predict and anticipate his moves and set him up into a position he can't dodge making it possible to tag spider-man. Deadshot can do the same thing to captain boomerang, and in this case he can anticipate ultimate hawkeye using his skill.

Your telling me Batman is faster than Flash now?

Deadshot pulls his shots on batman.

The fact remains is deadshots inability to tag batman is partially psychological. He isn't going to have that issue here as batman is the one person he pulls his shots against. Its possible he was pulling his shots in that scan. When ever deadshot shoots batman its when he knows batman is armored and when he isn't using lethal force.

Good thing Hawkeyes Arrows (Should he go bow option are Armour Piercing and pierce Super Human Soldiers.

So if guns fail, he can take cover and switch to arrows.

Thing is he would have to switch to his armor piercing arrows and draw his bow while the greatest marks man in DC is shooting at him...Not going to be easy.

All good points however irrelevant when Hawkeye fires first and move to cover with his super speed. Good chance he will not get shot at all and know to switch to Armour Piercing arrows and Trick arrows.

Now at first it may seem like arrows < Bullets. However Hawk can lay down so many arrows faster than a machine gun with incredible accuracy.

1) 3 simultaneously head shots.

2) A Kree ridled with arrows before he hits the floor.

3-4) Notice the 3-4 arrows right behind and inches from the next. Arrows from a compound bow can travel up 400 FPS! That is insanely fast to knock and loose that many arrows at a time.

5) A Troll with double eye shots from arrows while HE is killing many others in the same second.

6) Riddling a entire squad of Super Human Liberation.

7) 3 Liberation Soldiers hit with arrows in a mid leap.

He lays down so many arrows. This is all Armor Piercing Arrows. Not even the good stuff yet. Trick arrows he can use!

I all ready covered deadshots reflexes above. These are impressive reflex feats but I don't think it trumps the stuff posted for deadshot.

1) Adamantium Tip Serum Arrow.

2-3) Explosive Arrow Heads.

4) Flash Bang Arrow.

5) Grapple Line Arrow.

6) The famous Nuke Arrow.

7) Bola and Taser Arrow.

8-9) Tranq Arrow.

All this and more. The most useful could be a Taser Arrow, how will body armour deal with that? Orthe best the once needed only Nuke arrow? Explosive Arrows? A well place Flash Bang?

1. The adamantium serum tip arrow was something specifically designed for hulk. I don't think it is standard.

2-3. Deadshots armor has tanked explosives in the past and as I mentioned above he has explosive rounds to (ultimate hawkeyes also seem to have a timer to them)

4. Deadshot has shown the awareness and senses to shoot people blind folded so thats not a huge advantage deadshot can over come (The scans have all ready been posted)

5. I don't really see how the grapple arrow will help.

6. Which has a few seconds to dodge and a blast radius of 15-20 feet. Also ultimate hawkeye only used it once against a power house. So its not exactly in character.

7. These can be useful admittedly for incapacitating deadshot but I question it will be his first move with ultimate hawkeye having so many options that he thinks will work.

8-9. Can the tranq arrow get through deadshots armor?

Also its worth noting that Deadshot has shown the accuracy an reaction to shoot arrows out of the air so it is possible some or Ultimate hawkeyes arrows wont reach Deadshot.

So some of ultimate hawkeyes trick arrows might detonate early. They might detonate while there in range of ultimate hawkeye instead of deadshot. So Ultimate hawkeye might be killed with his own trick arrows if he is unlucky and the arrows that deadshot decides to shoot are conveniently his trick arrows.

Thats all good and all but seriously. Hawkeye is not your average Marksmen.

1-2) Free falling thru the air to hit the Ace of Spades.

3-4) Eye Shots and Charging Suicide Bomber Maddox.

5-6) In a war zone, upside down, and flying by fast on a copter, finds and takes out Enchantress.

7) Eye shots a thrashing Sabertooth.

8) 3 head shots from rapid fire.

9) fighting a troll army and still make double eye shots!

10-11) Killing Super Human Liberation with a few arrows in the organs.

12-13) Black Widow is super human enhance with Speed, Agility, and all that jazz. She could not dodge any of HE's shots. She is not even injured in this hospitable, she was trying to lay low!

14) Hitting the non lethal spots on Giant Men to keep them at bay.

Thats all Arrows. He is as accurate with his guns.

1) Blows up a Warmachine with a machine gun?! Nothing short of super human accuracy there.

2) Shoots out Spidey's Webs as he tries to get away.

3) With 2 hand guns takes out a entire mafia drug cartel. Accuracy playing a role with the looks of Head Shots and Heart Shots.

4) more of shootingout Spidey's webs to keep from being incaped.

Ultimate HE is such a superior level of accuracy than any of those scans for Deadshot.

I only uploaded those dodging feats to match the ones you posted for hawkeye. Deadshot isn't your average marksmen either. However because his dodging feats are better he has more likely hood of dodging ultimate hawkeyes attacks. And not to mention the defenses in his armor. This makes him harder to take down. I disagree about ultimate hawkeye being more accurate but we have all ready debated accuracy. I feel like the showings deadshot has done are better then those of hawkeyes.

As for Durability, HE really has that in spades.

1-2) Large powerful blast and concrete slab on his body, back in the fight.

3-4) Hit by hellfire with his team, only one to get back up.

5-6) Mach 10 Hurrican beats the hell out of him with super momentum punches, HE gets right back up.

There are all concussion and burning based attacks. None of these prove he can take a bullet to the head. Also on the subject of scans 1-2 he was hit with the shock wave of the blast. There is a difference.

Just to sum up why Hawkeye is the bomb.

HE appearance with his partner Black Widow. A whole thing of HE cleaning house and why tagging Black Widow is a good feat.

HE gets jumped by the Defenders, and with Tigra on his back still manages to eye shot Black Knight!

Another of HE's best showings. here Clint takes on 3 Omega Level Mutates. The red one alone ripped a Helicarrier in half Magneto Style. HE beats all 3 of them while starting off Unarmed!

To sum it up, Hawkeye is not only the better soldier here, he is the better range fighter thanks to Twitch Factor, Super Sight, and Trick Arrows. He simply has more going for him than Deadshot who has nothing but guns and super human accuracy.

After this we can go to vote.

I don't really feel like these feats trump the ones posted for deadshot. Just to sum up Deadshot has the ability to richoshet his bullets. This means that he can to an extent work around cover, and his explosives will allow him to destroy ultimate hawkeyes cover when needed forcing ultimate hawkeye into the open. His armor will also give him mild protection against ultimate hawkeyes attacks and as you said in your first post this comes down to who is faster in which case I feel it is deadshot, due to his stalemate with deathstroke (a character faster then ultimate hawkeye), and his consistent ability to tag speedsters, and better bullet dodging feats. He also can anticipate captain boomerangs moves, and I feel he can do the same to ultimate hawkeye making him easier to tag

As such deadshot should win the majority IMO. I will let you call people out.

#18 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by SlimJ87D (9363 posts) - - Show Bio

Really good debate.

#20 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7230 posts) - - Show Bio

While I dislike quickdraw battles @jashro44: convinced me that Deadshot cannot only complete, but also has the durability/damage soak to get in a fatal blow.

#22 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

Jashro

#23 Posted by jashro44 (19888 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

Really good debate.

Thank you.