#1 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio
VS

Rules

  • Morals are on
  • Random encounter
  • Standard gear for Drizzt
  • Black panther is pre doom war
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapaciation

Location

  • Both begin visible
  • Fight takes place at night
  • Begin 30 feet apart
  • Fight takes place here:

@floopay Here it is, read through the OP to see if everything is fine. If it is feel free to make the first move.

#2 Posted by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: First post! Haha, I am already on my way to victory!

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#3 Posted by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

My Debate

Will come in the form of two sets of feats. Both are from the same universe, however, one is from the graphic novels, and one is from the written novels. The graphic novel is a good deal shorter, and is more of a summary than a retelling.

Information on Drow in General

Obviously T'challa isn't going to fall under this category, I'm just outlining drow in general against humans in general, just so you know.

Drow are naturally smarter and faster than humans. As in, the race as a whole is born with a greater mind, and are naturally more agile and dexterous. However, drow live in a cut throat society, in order to advance you have to eliminate or subjugate the one(s) above you. Any child born with any sort of deformity or any signs that they will be an inferior specimen, are instantly sacrificed to Lolth, their Spider Goddess. All drow must do one of the following: train as a fighter for ten years in Melee Magthere (fighting academy), study in Sorcere for thirty years (wizard academy), or study at Arach-Tinilith for awhile (I think twenty years, but I'd have to double check, priestess academy).

They live for centuries, and are forced to keep up their training and ability for the entirety of their life, or be assassinated. It's a cold fact of their life. All drow, regardless of their choice of profession, are instilled with one basic fact: Survival is king. They do not fight fair, and they defeat their opponents as much with stealth and cunning as they do with sheer skill. They are the most feared race in all of Faerun (the subcontinent they live on), and are notoriously ruthless.

Because of their years in the underdark (the name for the underworld in Faerun), the drow have adapted to have superior hearing and sight to any human being.

Innate Drow Abilities

Ultravision - Drow can see through both the infrared and ultraviolet light spectrum, allowing them to see at night, and easily track targets in the dark by seeing the heat left behind by their footprints. Also makes detecting opponents easier.

Globe of Darkness - Creates a Globe of Absolute Darkness with up to a 10 foot radius. This blocks normal vision, night vision, ultravision (ultraviolet), infravision (infrared), magical sight, and x-ray vision, etc. They can use this multiple times per day.

Faerie Fire - Covers someone with bluish purple flames. They do not burn or cause damage, but will remain visible, even when the target is not. This can be used a seemingly limitless number of times per day.

Levitation - Can be used more times per day if the drow has good training with it, is basically what it says it is. Note: Drizzt doesn't have this ability, prolonged time spent out of the underworld has caused him to lose this ability for the most part. He can still use it to slightly extend his jump time, and etc.

Drizzt Do'Urden

Early Life

This is just to cover the earliest parts of his life. His upbringing, his training, and some minor details about him in general. This covers the first 30 years of his life. If memory serves, by the end of the Icewindale Trilogy, Drizzt is about 60-75 years old. Your average dark elf lives for about five centuries (if they aren't assassinated before then), but can live as long as a millennium or two...

The point of this is not only to give a general idea of why he is as good as he is, but also the sort of character he is.

The Coin Test

Drizzt spends the first 16 years of his life in drow society essentially learning his place as a male...which is as a whipping boy for the more dominant females (drow society is Matriarchal). He cleans, and attends all needs of his mother and sisters, and is not allowed to make eye contact with any of them under fear of having his skin shredded by their snake-headed whips.

At the age of 16, however, they decide his fate, and how he should train. His mother insists on him becoming a wizard, however, his father says Drizzt should train with him (Zaknafein, his father) to become a fighter. At this point, Drizzt's only training is that of a servant, which is mopping, scrubbing, sorting, and general cleaning.

So this feat is moreso to show his natural talent. His father gives him two coins, one to place in each hand. He flips them into the air, and catches them in the hand he flipped them in. He is then given two more coins, and two more after that. At the end, he is given a total of ten coins. He flips all ten of them, and he explodes into motion, twisting, turning, spinning, and snatching as fast as he can in a blur of motion. Finally, he opens his palm to reveal the ten coins, five in each hand.

Zaknafein Do'Urden

I have given you information on drow society, and even when nameless drow are used as fodder in the books, they still outclass many named heroes, and etc. in small forces. So when the man is stated as the best swordsman the drow have seen in a thousand generations (remember, one generation of drow spans a good 200 years or so), it shouldn't be taken lightly.

This is a brief showing of him against a bunch of priestesses. Zaknafein blinds them, then kills one or two, then when one begins to cast he uses a whip to rip her tongue right out of her mouth from across the room. The man has skills!

Weapons Training

He spends three years with Zaknafein, learning how to fight with all sorts of different weapons. Zaknafein forces him to practice with what seems to be at least a few dozen different weapons, as well as master his weapon(s) of choice.

Drizzt's weapon style of choice is dual wielding, with two scimitars.

The Parry is Wrong!

Drizzt practices to a point where him and Zaknafein can fight head to head at blinding speeds. Zaknafein easily counters Drizzt, but it's a good showing of his drive.

He learns a parry from Zaknafein, but insists over and over again that the parry is wrong, on the accounts that it doesn't match Zaknafein's teaching. Which is "Every move should bring an advantage", though he is paraphrasing, as the full lesson was "Every move should bring an advantage, or take away a disadvantage". He then attempts to best Zaknafein by attempting a different parry style to block Zak's maneuver, but ultimately fails. He still insists the parry is wrong though. :P

He's Ready

Matron Malice Do'Urden (Drizzt's mother) decides Drizzt is ready for the academy. Zaknafein disagrees. However, knowing that if Drizzt cannot prove his superiority as a fighter it could very well end his chosen profession, or worse yet lead to his demise, Zak forces Drizzt into a real fight. The two start off as equals, every move Zak places Drizzt counters, every advantage Zak takes Drizzt denies, and for awhile, Drizzt sets Zak on his heels. However, as the fight continues, Zak's superiority becomes more and more apparent, and he, again, defeats Drizzt.

Note: You can also see what a full Globe of Darkness looks like in these scans, as well as what Faerie Fire is.

Our Way

Zaknafein warns Drizzt of the drow way for the first time.

In this fight, Drizzt is actually gaining the upper hand against Zaknafein (though I believe Zak was going easy on him)....until Zaknafein uses a pellet of light against Drizzt. Drow eyes can be sensitive to huge changes in light, and it can render them temporarily blinded.

Drizzt has never encountered light of such magnitude, and is left stunned and blinded. Despite his blindness, his natural sense for battle, as well as his hearing allow him to fight completely blinded against someone as good as Zaknafein. Even Zak is completely caught off guard by the concept of Drizzt still maintaining a good fighting posture and composure in this environment.

The Academy

The academy covers ten years of Drizzt's life. He spends the entire time training...physically, mentally, and honing his craft.

Every year they hold a contest between students, to determine who is the best fighter among them, and to help them learn their ranks. The goal of the contest is simple, survive and obtain the highest rank possible. They fight with wooden weapons, and when struck their instructor places a blue dot on them to signify that they are "dead". During the first year, Drizzt teams up with a partner, and halfway through the tournament, his partner stabs him in the back, and betrays him. This puts him at rank 6.

During the second year, Drizzt learns his lesson. Though he hasn't the heart to backstab an ally, he decides that rather than forming an alliance with any students (like he had the first year), he would simply fight on his own. He easily defeats all the students, and when he comes against his final opponent (who was the second best fighter in his class, him being the first), he actually lures his opponent into a trip wire, and defeats him that way.

The excerpt says that after that, Drizzt wins the next year quite easily, so they put him against the students three years ahead of him, and he won that one as well. At the end of it all, Drizzt won every single contest except one, his first.

After completing the academy, he begins patrolling the city, and in another test his entire patrol was supposed to go up against a few Hook Horrors. They are told the Hook Horrors have a child of noble birth from one of the top houses (drow would normally not risk themselves for mere children, they're pretty heartless, so it had to be someone of importance to bait them). Drizzt rushes ahead of the group in fear for the child's life (an atypical attitude for a drow, to put another before themselves), and fights two of these things on his own. They are three or four times his weight, and almost double his height. They crumble stone beneath their attacks, and have an exoskeleton as hard as (or harder than) steel. Drizzt is able to take on two of them on his own.

Note: This is like 6 chapters of the book, so I'm just going with the graphic novel, which summarizes it quite well.

Overall:

This should give a good outline of the basics Drizzt has going for him, I'll go more in depth later.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#4 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Looks good! I will have to get back to you Friday though as something just came up. Sorry for the delay.

#5 Edited by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@floopay: Looks good! I will have to get back to you Friday though as something just came up. Sorry for the delay.

No problem, I'm rereading the books anyway, and am still waiting for a good deal of my books to arrive. Not a lot of people on the vine seem to know a lot about Forgotten Realms, so I really just wanted to give you something to read up on so you at least have a general idea on Drizzt.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#6 Posted by dondave (34603 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

Online
#7 Edited by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Bump! :)

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#8 Posted by i_like_swords (13262 posts) - - Show Bio

This could turn into a pretty good debate.

#9 Edited by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Sorry this took so long. I will try to make my next responses quicker.

My Debate

Will come in the form of two sets of feats. Both are from the same universe, however, one is from the graphic novels, and one is from the written novels. The graphic novel is a good deal shorter, and is more of a summary than a retelling.

Information on Drow in General

Obviously T'challa isn't going to fall under this category, I'm just outlining drow in general against humans in general, just so you know.

Drow are naturally smarter and faster than humans. As in, the race as a whole is born with a greater mind, and are naturally more agile and dexterous. However, drow live in a cut throat society, in order to advance you have to eliminate or subjugate the one(s) above you. Any child born with any sort of deformity or any signs that they will be an inferior specimen, are instantly sacrificed to Lolth, their Spider Goddess. All drow must do one of the following: train as a fighter for ten years in Melee Magthere (fighting academy), study in Sorcere for thirty years (wizard academy), or study at Arach-Tinilith for awhile (I think twenty years, but I'd have to double check, priestess academy).

This sounds fairly similar to black panther. Black panther is one of the smartest people in the marvel universe so he too is smarter then the average human as well. And because of the heartshaped herb black panther is also physically suepioer to the average human. Black panther has also trained since his child hood in order to be the black panther. The main difference might be is black panther hasn't really trained in magic (he has used in prep but its not something he can do in a random encounter like this), all though he does have some of the most advance technology on the planet.

They live for centuries, and are forced to keep up their training and ability for the entirety of their life, or be assassinated. It's a cold fact of their life. All drow, regardless of their choice of profession, are instilled with one basic fact: Survival is king. They do not fight fair, and they defeat their opponents as much with stealth and cunning as they do with sheer skill. They are the most feared race in all of Faerun (the subcontinent they live on), and are notoriously ruthless.

Black panther may not have centuries of experience (well at least not the version being used here), however he has experienced everything he needs to have experienced. What I mean is as a former avenger, King of an undefeated nation, etc, he has seen and faced almost everything imaginable. Black panther is also willing to fight dirty as well (he broke a skrulls knee caps IIRC, smashed a weight in kingpins, kicked killmonger in the balls, etc). Stealth probably wont work as black panther does have enhanced senses. And he too is very intelligent in combat.

Because of their years in the underdark (the name for the underworld in Faerun), the drow have adapted to have superior hearing and sight to any human being.

Innate Drow Abilities

Ultravision - Drow can see through both the infrared and ultraviolet light spectrum, allowing them to see at night, and easily track targets in the dark by seeing the heat left behind by their footprints. Also makes detecting opponents easier.

Globe of Darkness - Creates a Globe of Absolute Darkness with up to a 10 foot radius. This blocks normal vision, night vision, ultravision (ultraviolet), infravision (infrared), magical sight, and x-ray vision, etc. They can use this multiple times per day.

Faerie Fire - Covers someone with bluish purple flames. They do not burn or cause damage, but will remain visible, even when the target is not. This can be used a seemingly limitless number of times per day.

Levitation - Can be used more times per day if the drow has good training with it, is basically what it says it is. Note: Drizzt doesn't have this ability, prolonged time spent out of the underworld has caused him to lose this ability for the most part. He can still use it to slightly extend his jump time, and etc.

The ultra vision and the globes of darkness might give Drizzt a small advantage but nothing really significant. Black panthers enhanced senses mean he will just stay away from where Drizzts scent is and he could leave the range of the globes. He is really fast. He once outran sabretooth who is super human (sabretooth even had a head start), and has once ran so fast around havock that havock couldn't even see sabretooth.

I don't think the faerie fire will be very helpful as they both begin visible and both have enhanced senses it will be hard for stealth to play a role.

This is just to cover the earliest parts of his life. His upbringing, his training, and some minor details about him in general. This covers the first 30 years of his life. If memory serves, by the end of the Icewindale Trilogy, Drizzt is about 60-75 years old. Your average dark elf lives for about five centuries (if they aren't assassinated before then), but can live as long as a millennium or two...

The point of this is not only to give a general idea of why he is as good as he is, but also the sort of character he is.

The Coin Test

Drizzt spends the first 16 years of his life in drow society essentially learning his place as a male...which is as a whipping boy for the more dominant females (drow society is Matriarchal). He cleans, and attends all needs of his mother and sisters, and is not allowed to make eye contact with any of them under fear of having his skin shredded by their snake-headed whips.

At the age of 16, however, they decide his fate, and how he should train. His mother insists on him becoming a wizard, however, his father says Drizzt should train with him (Zaknafein, his father) to become a fighter. At this point, Drizzt's only training is that of a servant, which is mopping, scrubbing, sorting, and general cleaning.

So this feat is moreso to show his natural talent. His father gives him two coins, one to place in each hand. He flips them into the air, and catches them in the hand he flipped them in. He is then given two more coins, and two more after that. At the end, he is given a total of ten coins. He flips all ten of them, and he explodes into motion, twisting, turning, spinning, and snatching as fast as he can in a blur of motion. Finally, he opens his palm to reveal the ten coins, five in each hand.

When T'challa was young his father died which led him to travel the world in order to train. T'challa did this before he was of the age of 19. He then returned to Wakanda and challenged his uncle Syan who was the black panther. His uncle had injested the herb and T'challa himself did not have his enhancements yet. But despite this he had defeated his uncle becoming black panther. He apparently had studied every fighting style on the planet when he had been training around the world.

And just to match the feat of catching the coins as a blur in motion black panther has blitzed hand ninjas without his enhancements at the speed of a blur.

Zaknafein Do'Urden

I have given you information on drow society, and even when nameless drow are used as fodder in the books, they still outclass many named heroes, and etc. in small forces. So when the man is stated as the best swordsman the drow have seen in a thousand generations (remember, one generation of drow spans a good 200 years or so), it shouldn't be taken lightly.

This is a brief showing of him against a bunch of priestesses. Zaknafein blinds them, then kills one or two, then when one begins to cast he uses a whip to rip her tongue right out of her mouth from across the room. The man has skills!

All though this is impressive, and Drizzit is undeniabley skilled I don't quite think this will help him much against black panther. Drizzit being called the greatest swordsman the drow have seen in thousand generations, T'challa has likewise been referred to as the greatest black panther. The black panther is typically the greatest warrior in all of Wakanda and it goes back to thousands of years.

Drizzit ripping the tongues out of people using a whip is a very impressive display of his accuracy and skills with a whip. However I don't think this will help much as black panthers vibranium suit will protect him from being damaged by a whip. Drizzit will need to use his bladed weaponry.

The Parry is Wrong!

Drizzt practices to a point where him and Zaknafein can fight head to head at blinding speeds. Zaknafein easily counters Drizzt, but it's a good showing of his drive.

He learns a parry from Zaknafein, but insists over and over again that the parry is wrong, on the accounts that it doesn't match Zaknafein's teaching. Which is "Every move should bring an advantage", though he is paraphrasing, as the full lesson was "Every move should bring an advantage, or take away a disadvantage". He then attempts to best Zaknafein by attempting a different parry style to block Zak's maneuver, but ultimately fails. He still insists the parry is wrong though. :P

All though fighting at blinding speeds is really impressive black panther has also been able to move faster then the human eye can follow.

First scan black panther moves so fast he comes down as a white streak and knocks 2 people down by passing by them, and the second scan he disappears in front of human eyes.

Not much is known about black panthers training aside from he has studied every martial arts on the planet (all ready mentioned) and has learned pressure points.

Matron Malice Do'Urden (Drizzt's mother) decides Drizzt is ready for the academy. Zaknafein disagrees. However, knowing that if Drizzt cannot prove his superiority as a fighter it could very well end his chosen profession, or worse yet lead to his demise, Zak forces Drizzt into a real fight. The two start off as equals, every move Zak places Drizzt counters, every advantage Zak takes Drizzt denies, and for awhile, Drizzt sets Zak on his heels. However, as the fight continues, Zak's superiority becomes more and more apparent, and he, again, defeats Drizzt.

Note: You can also see what a full Globe of Darkness looks like in these scans, as well as what Faerie Fire is.

Zaknafein warns Drizzt of the drow way for the first time.

In this fight, Drizzt is actually gaining the upper hand against Zaknafein (though I believe Zak was going easy on him)....until Zaknafein uses a pellet of light against Drizzt. Drow eyes can be sensitive to huge changes in light, and it can render them temporarily blinded.

Drizzt has never encountered light of such magnitude, and is left stunned and blinded. Despite his blindness, his natural sense for battle, as well as his hearing allow him to fight completely blinded against someone as good as Zaknafein. Even Zak is completely caught off guard by the concept of Drizzt still maintaining a good fighting posture and composure in this environment.

The academy covers ten years of Drizzt's life. He spends the entire time training...physically, mentally, and honing his craft.

Every year they hold a contest between students, to determine who is the best fighter among them, and to help them learn their ranks. The goal of the contest is simple, survive and obtain the highest rank possible. They fight with wooden weapons, and when struck their instructor places a blue dot on them to signify that they are "dead". During the first year, Drizzt teams up with a partner, and halfway through the tournament, his partner stabs him in the back, and betrays him. This puts him at rank 6.

During the second year, Drizzt learns his lesson. Though he hasn't the heart to backstab an ally, he decides that rather than forming an alliance with any students (like he had the first year), he would simply fight on his own. He easily defeats all the students, and when he comes against his final opponent (who was the second best fighter in his class, him being the first), he actually lures his opponent into a trip wire, and defeats him that way.

The excerpt says that after that, Drizzt wins the next year quite easily, so they put him against the students three years ahead of him, and he won that one as well. At the end of it all, Drizzt won every single contest except one, his first.

After completing the academy, he begins patrolling the city, and in another test his entire patrol was supposed to go up against a few Hook Horrors. They are told the Hook Horrors have a child of noble birth from one of the top houses (drow would normally not risk themselves for mere children, they're pretty heartless, so it had to be someone of importance to bait them). Drizzt rushes ahead of the group in fear for the child's life (an atypical attitude for a drow, to put another before themselves), and fights two of these things on his own. They are three or four times his weight, and almost double his height. They crumble stone beneath their attacks, and have an exoskeleton as hard as (or harder than) steel. Drizzt is able to take on two of them on his own.

Note: This is like 6 chapters of the book, so I'm just going with the graphic novel, which summarizes it quite well.

This is all very impressive. However I don't quite believe it puts Drizzit ahead of black panther. Black panther has also faced and won against a lot of fighters difficult opponents in the marvel universe.

Black panther vs the super skrull with the skills and powers of various top tier characters in marvel (including black panthers own skills). Black panther manages to outsmart the super skrull and take the win. Just to give a better understanding of black panthers intellect and the way he uses the skills he was taught.
Black panther VS Killmonger (after Killmongers upgrades). Killmonger has studied black panthers moves and not only that but he is also a lot stronger then black panther. Black panther would have won had he not been distracted.
Killmonger manages to kill a elephant by tackling it and he also demolishes a oak tree in a single punch. So much like the hook horrors that Drizzit had fought Killmonger was also a few times stronger then black panther. And he also had studied the way black panther had fought. However Killmonger (even before he was upgraded to this level) also had enough skill to fight deadpool to a stalemate.
Black panther without his enhancements VS Kraven the Hunter. The fight never finishes admittedly all though Black Panther seems to have a slight edge.
Black panther takes down Kanark with ease. Kanark has shown some fairly decent technical knowledge and has some super human stats.

There is some more stuff but I will save it for later. Again I do apologize why this took so long and I will try not to keep you waiting like that again.

#10 Posted by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Just so you know, that first post really isn't so much about Drizzt's skill and ability, as it is a brief overview of Drizzt himself.

I just ordered a new copy of the series that got misplaced in the mail on Tuesday, and it just got shipped today and is being sorted. I'll start more replies when I have the next set of books to match the comics.

I also have the last two Drizzt comics I don't own coming in the mail as well :)

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#11 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: bump if you want to continue!

#12 Posted by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Alright back to this debate!

Just so you know, my first post only encompasses roughly the first 28 or so years of his 90 year lifespan. Just letting you know his training and etc.

Faerie Fire

Faerie Fire has a number of advantages. Not only does it make Black Panther easier to see, it makes it easier to track his movements. Additionally, Black Panther spontaneously being lit up in blue fire can grant a brief advantage to Drizzt. I don't think it's an overstatement to say this could startle or give Black Panther a moments hesitation when he spontaneously goes up in flames. Once he realizes they don't burn he'll be fine, and as I stated earlier this should only catch him offguard for a fleeting moment, but in a fight of two skilled fighters such as that, that small amount can change the tides of a battle.

Though the biggest advantage is allowing Drizzt to more easily track his movements.

Guenwyvar

I'm not gonna use this for this battle. Drizzt has an item that lets him summon this companion for a few days at a time every week or so. However, Guenwyvar would make this match insanely one sided and I don't plan on using her. I'm only bringing this up because I've seen a few Drizzt threads pop up lately and thought you may have seen some posts on his black panther companion.

Drizzt Early Years Continued

This is still the very earliest stages of his life, but there are a lot of good feats here, so I'm going to keep going with them.

Drizzt's combat senses

From point blank range, Drizzt dodges a lightning bolt he has no idea is about to come his way. As it says here, before the wand is even produced Drizzt is in a roll diving out of the way.

If you read this, he is having a rather casual conversation with someone who has never been or shown any signs of being hostile towards him. The reason that's important is it helps clarify why there was no idea of it coming his way. Drizzt dodges it out of pure instinct of what he believes is coming.

Drizzt vs. Earth Elemental

This sort of expands on his cutting power, versatility, durability, and etc. In these scans, Drizzt is fighting a creature than pounds stone into powder with each strike. His weapons (inferior to the ones he carries now) are cutting off chips of stone off this creature and wounding it. Hit by hit he is destroying this thing, and overall takes it to a point where it's only moments from being struck down.

However, just before he finishes it off (and he takes a couple hits already btw), a mage who is trying to assassinate him blasts both him and it with a powerful bolt of lightning. Drizzt is only slightly taken back and relatively uninjured here.

Drizzt vs. Zaknafein

Alright, this is a pivotal point in Drizzt's fighting carrier. If you read my earlier posts I expand on Zaknafein Do'Urden, Drizzt's father. Zaknafein is a beast, he is the greatest drow swordsman in over a millenia, and the feats he has definitely back that up. He is dang near an army of one, and uses every weapon and trick in his arsenal to overcome foes much greater than himself. Up until now, Drizzt has done nothing short of humiliate every obstacle he's come across, except Zaknafein. Zaknafein always humiliated Drizzt in combat, preventing him from getting ANY advantage, and always conquering him.

However, in this fight the two are equals. Drizzt not only is able to match Zaknafein, but uses an improved version of one of Zaknafein's own attacks to defeat him. This fight doesn't actually conclude, but for once it shows the two as fighting equals, with Drizzt taking the advantage before they conclude the match.

Drizzt vs. Masoj and the Faceless One

This is Drizzt and Guenwyvar vs. two Wizards. Drizzt takes on one after they have both loosed spells against him, and Guenwyvar takes the other.

Drizzt actually tanks some magic missiles and a lightning bolt here, both of which are more than enough to kill even high skilled heavily armored fighters (and yes, I can back this up 10 times over with book feats).

However, after he tanks these shots, he's still more than capable of dodging a lightning bolt in which he has no idea as to where it's coming from. This is again a good showing of combat senses, as well as his durability, determination, and overall skill.

Even with broken fingers, a bloody body, and probably some broken bones, he can scale a cliff and kill his opponent before his opponent can loose a single spell, something that takes but a few seconds (at least at that mages level) to do.

Overall

I think the two are relative equals in combat speed, especially seeing as Drizzt has bracers strapped to his ankles that increase his movement speed by double, allowing him to dodge and maneuver way quicker than he was able to in the scans I've already provided. Durability is also a comparable stat.

Drizzt's biggest benefit is that his magical armor and equipment should resist Anti-Metal claws. Though they would only resist the Anti-Metal effects, they wouldn't render him immune to damage.

His other advantage, that is worth noting, is that with scimitars, Drizzt has a ranged advantage over Black Panther. Over and above this Drizzt uses a fighting style that has only ever been used and perfected by drow, so it's not something T'challa has ever come across.

These advantages give Drizzt a minimal advantage, and overall I do believe this will be a close fight. I am looking forward to seeing what more you can provide on Black Panther, because I think this will be a close call when we eventually open this up to voting (I still have a LOT more feats, so no rush, I've only covered the first 2 out of roughly 25 books).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#13 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: All right I will try to make a response later tonight.

#14 Edited by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@floopay: All right I will try to make a response later tonight.

Take your time, I probably won't get on for a couple days.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#16 Posted by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: I will try and have a response tomorrow (I need to study for a test I have right now). I totally forgot about this.

#17 Posted by Floopay (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Alright, this needs to keep going, as it's one of my favorite CaV's, and I keep letting it fall. Here I go!

Drizzt vs. Wererats

These things are actually very well trained, and superhuman in terms of speed. Drizzt ends up taking a whole host of these things, cutting their ranks down, and eventually he even takes on a Otyugh in the process.

Drizzt vs. Verbeeg

Drizzt faces off a bunch of Verbeeg. Verbeeg are essentially giants, standing around 10 feet tall or better, with strength and speed to match their size (yes, they're actually quite fast). The importance of this fight isn't really Drizzt and Wulfgar defeating a bunch of giants. The importance is there is a line in one of the pages, where a giant challenges Drizzt to a fair one on one fight. Just as the fight is about to begin Drizzt's pet/ally, Guenwhyvar, leaps onto the things back and starts clawing away at it. Just before Drizzt kills it he says "Where in the nine hells did you think a dark elf would fight fair?".

What I'm showing, is that even though Drizzt is considered a paladin to his fellow kinsman, at the end of the day he is a dark elf. He fights to win, and to survive. And even though he is a good guy, he will still fight dirty.

Just giving this a kickstart with some filler ;-P

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#18 Posted by NighThunder (2910 posts) - - Show Bio

ohhhhhhhhhhh floopay and jasro..............yummy..

#19 Edited by jashro44 (19803 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Sorry that this took so long. But I kept getting caught in school work or forgetting about this.

Just so you know, my first post only encompasses roughly the first 28 or so years of his 90 year lifespan. Just letting you know his training and etc.

All right.

Faerie Fire

Faerie Fire has a number of advantages. Not only does it make Black Panther easier to see, it makes it easier to track his movements. Additionally, Black Panther spontaneously being lit up in blue fire can grant a brief advantage to Drizzt. I don't think it's an overstatement to say this could startle or give Black Panther a moments hesitation when he spontaneously goes up in flames. Once he realizes they don't burn he'll be fine, and as I stated earlier this should only catch him offguard for a fleeting moment, but in a fight of two skilled fighters such as that, that small amount can change the tides of a battle.

Though the biggest advantage is allowing Drizzt to more easily track his movements.

It may help make black panther easier to track however i am not sure if it will startle black panther for long. Black Panther likes to keep a calm and controlled head in pretty much everything he does. For example when ever he encountered mephisto he was asked if would need help from the avengers and black panthers response was "why?" Even when he encountered the hulk he was asked if he should call in the avengers or an air strike and he had the same response. It may catch him off guard however here he has the vibranium suit which has tanked all sorts of weird energy. It even once protected him from a blast from star dust. So Black Panther may wonder for a bit why he is on blue fire he will still probably be more focused on the fight itself.

Guenwyvar

I'm not gonna use this for this battle. Drizzt has an item that lets him summon this companion for a few days at a time every week or so. However, Guenwyvar would make this match insanely one sided and I don't plan on using her. I'm only bringing this up because I've seen a few Drizzt threads pop up lately and thought you may have seen some posts on his black panther companion.

All right. The only companion black panther has would probably be Kimoyo

I don't think that will help him much here though.

Drizzt's combat senses

From point blank range, Drizzt dodges a lightning bolt he has no idea is about to come his way. As it says here, before the wand is even produced Drizzt is in a roll diving out of the way.

If you read this, he is having a rather casual conversation with someone who has never been or shown any signs of being hostile towards him. The reason that's important is it helps clarify why there was no idea of it coming his way. Drizzt dodges it out of pure instinct of what he believes is coming.

If I am reading the page correctly it seems like Drizzt aim dodged the lightning. He dodged as the attack was charging. This is a pretty good showing of awareness however I think speed wise black panther can still keep up with him.

Drizzt vs. Earth Elemental

This sort of expands on his cutting power, versatility, durability, and etc. In these scans, Drizzt is fighting a creature than pounds stone into powder with each strike. His weapons (inferior to the ones he carries now) are cutting off chips of stone off this creature and wounding it. Hit by hit he is destroying this thing, and overall takes it to a point where it's only moments from being struck down.

However, just before he finishes it off (and he takes a couple hits already btw), a mage who is trying to assassinate him blasts both him and it with a powerful bolt of lightning. Drizzt is only slightly taken back and relatively uninjured here.

Pretty impressive all though I imagine if Drizzt wants to cut black panthers vibranium suit he is going to need to slash along the grain. Vibraniums unique properties have allowed black panther to tank hits from iron man, hulk, namor, a energy blast from star dust, and hits from iron fist which were as powerful as being repeatedly run over by a freight train. It also made 10 tonner killmongers knife break when he tried a straight stab.

In regards to durability black panthers energy daggers and anti-metal claws are cutting based weapons. So I am not to sure if Drizzt's blunt force and energy resistance will help. Black Panthers attacks are stabbing based so they should still be quite effective.

Drizzt vs. Zaknafein

Alright, this is a pivotal point in Drizzt's fighting carrier. If you read my earlier posts I expand on Zaknafein Do'Urden, Drizzt's father. Zaknafein is a beast, he is the greatest drow swordsman in over a millenia, and the feats he has definitely back that up. He is dang near an army of one, and uses every weapon and trick in his arsenal to overcome foes much greater than himself. Up until now, Drizzt has done nothing short of humiliate every obstacle he's come across, except Zaknafein. Zaknafein always humiliated Drizzt in combat, preventing him from getting ANY advantage, and always conquering him.

However, in this fight the two are equals. Drizzt not only is able to match Zaknafein, but uses an improved version of one of Zaknafein's own attacks to defeat him. This fight doesn't actually conclude, but for once it shows the two as fighting equals, with Drizzt taking the advantage before they conclude the match.

Very impressive. I have all ready gone over Some of black panthers feats above. Just re-summarize (because its been months...again really sorry about that) some feats include beating a super skrull which had the skills of some of earths best fighters and who supposedly was dreaming of kill black panther since he was old enough to walk, Knark who is the most skilled fighter of the inhuman race and has some pretty crazy feats with his skill, killmonger who has studied his moves and was upgraded to be a 10 tonner (pre upgrade killmonger was skilled enough to stalemate deadpool on 2 occasions), and then Kraven who black panther was depowered against.

Anyways from what I gathered most of Zaknafeins feats are against a young Drizzt. And he is hearlded as the greatest warrior of his race (which does mean a lot admittedly). All though Black Panther has beaten some fighters with similar statements surrounding them.

VS Captain America

I'm sure I don't really need to go over captain americas skills too much. Steve has also been able to stalemate some of the best fighters in the marvel universe and was able to out fight physically superior foes. Not only that but he has been credited by Kang (a time traveler) as the greatest warrior in the marvel universe and that he adapts to a fighting style that most men who have been practicing for years, couldn't perform as well as cap supposedly did. So Cap has similar statements as Zaknafeins does.

Steve being called the finest warrior of the age and Kang commenting on how he adapts.

Black Panther VS Iron fist

He has also faced and defeated Iron Fist (who was bloodlusted). Iron fist as trained in the ancient city of K'un-Lun and if I am not mistaken he was proven to be the best immortal weapon. The Immortal weapons have extremely advanced martial arts techniques which are passed down from centuries and are basically mystic.

VS his uncle (I posted this all ready but just reposting it because it has been months)

In order for black panther to become the black panther he had to defeat his uncle in combat. Wakanda is also a warrior nation and T'challas uncle would have been the most skilled at the time. Black Panther wasn't enhanced where as his uncle was and T'challa still took him down (and made it look easy).

The point of these showings is Black Panther has beaten enemies which are similar Zaknafeins.Just as he is the greatest warrior of his people so is T'challas uncle. Or Iron fist is the greatest fighter in the mystical city of kung fu. Or Cap being the greatest warrior of the age according to Kang. And Black panther has been able to beat them all at one point or another. So I think Black Panther has handled comparable or suepioer fighters.

Drizzt vs. Masoj and the Faceless One

This is Drizzt and Guenwyvar vs. two Wizards. Drizzt takes on one after they have both loosed spells against him, and Guenwyvar takes the other.

Drizzt actually tanks some magic missiles and a lightning bolt here, both of which are more than enough to kill even high skilled heavily armored fighters (and yes, I can back this up 10 times over with book feats).

However, after he tanks these shots, he's still more than capable of dodging a lightning bolt in which he has no idea as to where it's coming from. This is again a good showing of combat senses, as well as his durability, determination, and overall skill.

Even with broken fingers, a bloody body, and probably some broken bones, he can scale a cliff and kill his opponent before his opponent can loose a single spell, something that takes but a few seconds (at least at that mages level) to do.

Pretty much what I said above Black Panther will be using piercing based attacks so I don't think concussion or lightning attacks prove he can handle black panthers weapons. Its still impressive however because of Black Panthers damage output it shouldn't be to helpful here.

On the subject of dodging the lightning was he aim dodging here? If so then what accuracy and reflex feats do these wizards have? What I am trying to say is what makes the feat more impressive then Black Panther dodging bullets?

Pretty good showing of pain tolerance. If I were to compare that pain tolerance to what black panther has done:

  • Black Panther wounded from a previous battle kills a white gorilla
  • Black Panther spends 3 days in the desert tracking sombre
  • Kills a T-rex
  • Black panther is then bound to a cactus. He ignores the pain. And he gets attacked by a pterodactyl. He survives and defeats his captor and makes it to wakanda in 2 days. That is when black panther finally collapsed.

IIRC All of that was done in 5 days, So Black Panther does have his own endurance. And then there is the 13 hour fight with killmonger. And something else I should note is that in both instances Black Panther didn't have his tech just to clarify.

Overall

I think the two are relative equals in combat speed, especially seeing as Drizzt has bracers strapped to his ankles that increase his movement speed by double, allowing him to dodge and maneuver way quicker than he was able to in the scans I've already provided. Durability is also a comparable stat.

Drizzt's biggest benefit is that his magical armor and equipment should resist Anti-Metal claws. Though they would only resist the Anti-Metal effects, they wouldn't render him immune to damage.

His other advantage, that is worth noting, is that with scimitars, Drizzt has a ranged advantage over Black Panther. Over and above this Drizzt uses a fighting style that has only ever been used and perfected by drow, so it's not something T'challa has ever come across.

These advantages give Drizzt a minimal advantage, and overall I do believe this will be a close fight. I am looking forward to seeing what more you can provide on Black Panther, because I think this will be a close call when we eventually open this up to voting (I still have a LOT more feats, so no rush, I've only covered the first 2 out of roughly 25 books).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Speed is pretty even I agree with that. All though in regards to durability i doubt it is equal. Drizzt can bypass the vibranium suit with his sword however if he does attempt something else like a kick it wont be very effective. Again he has taken hits from iron man, hulk, namor, and repeated hits from iron fist which were stated to be as powerful as a freight train.

Why wont Anti-metal work against Drizzt's armor? Apologies if it has been previously mentioned all though anti-metal has been used to destroy primary adamantium and it destroys metal on a molecular level so why is Drizzt's equipment immune to that?

I am not sure how powerful Drizzt's range is however as I have mentioned black panther has been able to tank a blast from star dust with his vibranium suit.

Surfer confirms black panther is fully couscous and is only pretending.

I should probably clarify the black panther arm bar while I'm at it. But Silver Surfer wasn't actually restrained by Black Panther. He allowed Black Panther to hold him so he can hear black panthers plan (this was confirmed by the writer of the story). Figured I would clarify the black panther arm bar is not actually PIS.

Also Drizzt is not the only one who has range here:

Black Panther energy daggers can be fired from the hilt.

I think Black Panther takes it. Drizzt is very fast but I think Black Panther can keep up with him speed wise. In regards to skill I think Black Panther has the edge due to the enemies he has fought. IMO they seem to have more and better feats then Drizzt does. His durability will also come in handy against Drizzt.

Drizzt vs. Wererats

These things are actually very well trained, and superhuman in terms of speed. Drizzt ends up taking a whole host of these things, cutting their ranks down, and eventually he even takes on a Otyugh in the process.

Very impressive! I would say Black Panther taking on hand ninjas, lady bullseye, and typhoid mary however matches this feat:

I know the hand aren't super human on paper but they have been able to deflect bullets in the past so they are very fast, and skilled.

The sparks bouncing off there blades are bullets.

Drizzt vs. Verbeeg

Drizzt faces off a bunch of Verbeeg. Verbeeg are essentially giants, standing around 10 feet tall or better, with strength and speed to match their size (yes, they're actually quite fast). The importance of this fight isn't really Drizzt and Wulfgar defeating a bunch of giants. The importance is there is a line in one of the pages, where a giant challenges Drizzt to a fair one on one fight. Just as the fight is about to begin Drizzt's pet/ally, Guenwhyvar, leaps onto the things back and starts clawing away at it. Just before Drizzt kills it he says "Where in the nine hells did you think a dark elf would fight fair?".

What I'm showing, is that even though Drizzt is considered a paladin to his fellow kinsman, at the end of the day he is a dark elf. He fights to win, and to survive. And even though he is a good guy, he will still fight dirty.

Black Panther is also a pretty chap fighter. The fight with the skrull shows him breaking the skrulls knee cap, he slammed a weight in kingpins face and he's kicked killmonger in the balls before. Black Panther has always been the type to fight to win no matter what. He will cheat to do it as well.