#1 Edited by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

Represented by JackKnight

Represented by NeonGameWave

MATCH RULES

No morals

Bloodlusted

No prep

Both are at full power

The version of Dr Solar being used is the Valiant version

Fight takes place in an empty reality:

Similar to this, an empty void or just Oblivion itself

VOTING RULES

1. Give a legit reason as to why your vote was cast to the debater chosen by said vote

2. There are two voting mechanics

3. Vote for who debated better in regards to the representation of their respective character

4. Vote for which character would actually win in a fight

For example, I vote for JackKnight he debated better for Dr Solar (1 vote)

I vote for Dr Solar he would win in a fight against Dream (2 votes)

Story

By the hands of TOAA, both Dream and Dr Solar are placed in an oblivion or empty reality called The Room of One Hope to End All Battles. Neither of them knowing what has occurred have also taken the interest to study the actual reality and being fascinated with its strange design. Both make notice of each other and based on natural instinct decide to confront one another, TOAA also makes it known to the two of them that both will be fighting for something dear to that of the very fabric of time, space, matter and reality which is becoming a wielder of a universe and fixing the wrongs of others.

Dr Solar: Who are you supposed to be?

Dream: I could ask the same of you, I am Dream of the Endless.

Dr Solar: Fascinating, as I can sense in the might of your presence that you are the embodiment of dreams itself.

Dream: You learn quickly and as to your power, I wouldn`t say your quite the match for me, my brothers or even my sisters as we are The Endless and The End to what we are, and shall always be.

Dr Solar: Enough with the speeches, we are here in this very reality only for ONE PURPOSE!!!!

Dream: I know what that purpose is and by the tone of your very enmity, I will end your very existence.

Dr Solar: This shall be your nightmare and I shall be the inheritor of that very nightmare spoken against you!!!

Dream: We shall see about that!

Mood Setters

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@jackknight

#2 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

#3 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait! this is the Gold Key/Dark Horse version of Dr Solar your using? he's much weaker then the Valiant version.

Nabby you can edit the op and say it the Valiant version for me.

#4 Posted by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait! this is the Gold Key/Dark Horse version of Dr Solar your using? he's much weaker then the Valiant version.

Nabby you can edit the op and say it the Valiant version for me.

We will be using the Valiant version and no problem, I`ll change the OP.

#5 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (5741 posts) - - Show Bio

Whew! Somebody using my boy Dr.Solar!!! Obviously I want to say he wins.....BUT can't dream use some crazy mind/psychic manipulation on him here? Can Solar take out Dream???? Let's see the debate boys!!!!

#6 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start first:

Here's one of Solar's best feats:

(Read from right to left)

Destroying his own reality just by getting pissed off.

#7 Edited by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

I'll start first:

Here's one of Solar's best feats:

(Read from right to left)

Destroying his own reality just by getting pissed off.

Awesome start! Those feats are definitely something but I`m sure Morpheus could survive a reality`s explosion, after all he is a fabric of existence weaved through an aspect of Dreaming and he is important to that of even the Presence also Lucifer Morningstar, I believe confirmed this very fact.

This is a lower but still awesome showing! Dream owns the Gatekeeper of Hell itself after being insulted.

Dream was even able to at one point override or overpower Lucifer Morningstar in the realm of Hell that he had taken over but although Lucifer wasn`t at his mightiest during this time its still a very high end feat because Lucifer even as a human has bested and destroyed Gods of great power. Dream also has every demon in Hell under his feet as well showcasing his influence in power.

#8 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

I'll start first:

Here's one of Solar's best feats:

(Read from right to left)

Destroying his own reality just by getting pissed off.

Awesome start! Those feats are definitely something but I`m sure Morpheus could survive a reality`s explosion, after all he is a fabric of existence weaved through an aspect of Dreaming and he is important to that of even the Presence also Lucifer Morningstar, I believe confirmed this very fact.

This is a lower but still awesome showing! Dream owns the Gatekeeper of Hell itself after being insulted.

Dream was even able to at one point override or overpower Lucifer Morningstar in the realm of Hell that he had taken over but although Lucifer wasn`t at his mightiest during this time its still a very high end feat because Lucifer even as a human has bested and destroyed Gods of great power. Dream also has every demon in Hell under his feet as well showcasing his influence in power.

#9 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

#10 Posted by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

#11 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

#12 Edited by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of all Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

#13 Posted by XxGin (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

I just bought the entire Sandman set. This better be good. GO MORPHEUS!

#14 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

Here's more feats by Solar:

Solar fights a being that instantly adapts to situations. If an attack works once, it will not work again, [much like Doomsday]…

We then see that Solar controls far more then one type of energy:

Solar has complete control over the time stream, because it, like ALL else, is energy:

Solar keeps a dead man alive by moving energy around, but the man’s last wish was to die, so Solar fulfills this request:

An extremely powerful telepath attempts to invade Solar’s mind.... He is easily expelled:

The same telepath attempts to peer into Solar’s mind on another occasion…. This attempt wasn’t successful, period:

Effortlessly defeats a being (called Silver Sky) in a reality of its own creation. A reality where she was

supposed

to be God:

(Read from right to left)

She and other beings later admitted that Solar is to powerful for them and that he can destroy them all with a blink:

Hows that?

#16 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7724 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: why brothers plural but singular sister? (in the OP dialogue)

Anyways, I think Dream's powers kind of allow him to defeat anyone who thinks, so I'm going with him

#17 Posted by Killemall (18746 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start first:

Here's one of Solar's best feats:

(Read from right to left)

Destroying his own reality just by getting pissed off.

Solar himself much later (Solar Man of Atom # 49) address the said feat as him destroying the planet.

Solar : "All because I had once destroyed an entire planet and killed billions by creating a black hole"

There is actually more evidence to suggest its a planet as opposed to an entire universe.

====================================

Not sure where people get Silver Sky as being god like, or Wire instance from Solar # 47 as being extremely powerful telepath, when Wire or any of the whole Flashpoint has done very little in terms of feat, nor was Wire ever mentioned to be a very powerful telepath.

Although Solar being able to fight off Harda telepath is different, he however is one of the most powerful psionic user in Valiant universe.

=====================================

I am not going to comment on who wins because i know very little about Dream, but people should honestly stop looking at the respect thread and take everything there as genuine. The remaining 2 feats Solar has are against fodder.

=====================================

That being said Solar does have some pretty cool feat.

The whole traveling to "un-reality" really isnt one of them.

#18 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: why brothers plural but singular sister? (in the OP dialogue)

Anyways, I think Dream's powers kind of allow him to defeat anyone who thinks, so I'm going with him

Look that what Solar did to an extremely powerful telepath in the scan I posted in this thread.

#19 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7724 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight: yeah, but what Dream does is different

a telepath breaks in, while Dream is kinda already there

#20 Edited by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

Here's more feats by Solar:

Solar fights a being that instantly adapts to situations. If an attack works once, it will not work again, [much like Doomsday]…

We then see that Solar controls far more then one type of energy:

Solar has complete control over the time stream, because it, like ALL else, is energy:

Solar keeps a dead man alive by moving energy around, but the man’s last wish was to die, so Solar fulfills this request:

An extremely powerful telepath attempts to invade Solar’s mind.... He is easily expelled:

The same telepath attempts to peer into Solar’s mind on another occasion…. This attempt wasn’t successful, period:

Effortlessly defeats a being (called Silver Sky) in a reality of its own creation. A reality where she was

supposed

to be God:

(Read from right to left)

She and other beings admitted that Solar can destroy them all with a blink:

Hows that?

Now those feats are outstanding! Very impressive indeed but it doesn`t really prove those very same methods and tactics would be able to keep someone like Morpheus down.

Morpheus is given his helmet and even within Hell confronts the armies as well as Lords Hell themselves without fear.

Dream and Death conversing about a human women in a reality also its within the view of universal understanding meaning points important to the universe itself.

Dream can invade or come into dreams as well as manipulate them its hinted here although he was on friendly terms with Calliope.

Don`t mess with Dream. He owned Azazel and didn`t put up with him for too long, a bloodlusted and amoral Dream would capture Dr Solar`s energy or manipulate him in the form a dream.

Dream at full power would be a multiversal power within his realm the Heart of Dreaming he cannot really be harmed or killed. Even the demon Azazel made a fatal mistake in finding that out.

Dream controls all of reality with this authority and he even traps Azazel in a small bottle.

A portion of Dream`s power is even a big deal, it can rewrite some form of reality and affect the world as proven here.

Time is nothing to Dream and as you even confirmed that Dr Solar controls even Time itself which is an energy source, the aspect let alone the source existing with time does not even draw any attention from Dream who at full power could control reality with his very will in the dreamscape he could create within the Oblivion.

As stated and confirmed here, Dream himself has existed before TIMEitself which trumps the very essence of Dr Solar when it comes to experience and wisdom. He would have an understanding of what to do against Dr Solar and his manipulation abilities.

Dream pretty much owns everybody here in the wits of gambling and even gains Lucifer Morningstar`s attention, although Dream made mention of it throughout his epic dialogues its actually true in a sense. Dream is in fact the very universe of the aspect of dreaming and knows all dreams or when they happen. Dr Solar must be under this very law too. He defeated a powerful demon named Chorozon without much effort in a battle of wits and truths.

What dream states here is very true, also he knows all these things that relate to dreams what you may be wondering or asking is how would it matter in a battle? Well its quite self explanatory and easily comprehensive, being at full power and in control of dream manipulation he would be able to delve into the mind of Dr Solar and exploit weaknesses.

#21 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

Here's more feats by Solar:

Solar fights a being that instantly adapts to situations. If an attack works once, it will not work again, [much like Doomsday]…

We then see that Solar controls far more then one type of energy:

Solar has complete control over the time stream, because it, like ALL else, is energy:

Solar keeps a dead man alive by moving energy around, but the man’s last wish was to die, so Solar fulfills this request:

An extremely powerful telepath attempts to invade Solar’s mind.... He is easily expelled:

The same telepath attempts to peer into Solar’s mind on another occasion…. This attempt wasn’t successful, period:

Effortlessly defeats a being (called Silver Sky) in a reality of its own creation. A reality where she was

supposed

to be God:

(Read from right to left)

She and other beings admitted that Solar can destroy them all with a blink:

Hows that?

Now those feats are outstanding! Very impressive indeed but it doesn`t really prove those very same methods and tactics would be able to keep someone like Morpheus down.

Morpheus is given his helmet and even within Hell confronts the armies as well as Lords Hell themselves without fear.

Dream and Death conversing about a human women in a reality also its within the view of universal understanding meaning points important to the universe itself.

Dream can invade or come into dreams as well as manipulate them its hinted here although he was on friendly terms with Calliope.

Don`t mess with Dream. He owned Azazel and didn`t put up with him for too long, a bloodlusted and amoral Dream would capture Dr Solar`s energy or manipulate him in the form a dream.

Dream at full power would be a multiversal power within his realm the Heart of Dreaming he cannot really be harmed or killed. Even the demon Azazel made a fatal mistake in finding that out.

Dream controls all of reality with this authority and he even traps Azazel in a small bottle.

A portion of Dream`s power is even a big deal, it can rewrite some form of reality and affect the world as proven here.

Time is nothing to Dream and as you even confirmed that Dr Solar controls even Time itself which is an energy source, the aspect let alone the source existing with time does not even draw any attention from Dream who at full power could control reality with his very will in the dreamscape he could create within the Oblivion.

As stated and confirmed here, Dream himself has existed before TIMEitself which trumps the very essence of Dr Solar when it comes to experience and wisdom. He would have an understanding of what to do against Dr Solar and his manipulation abilities.

Dream pretty much owns everybody here in the wits of gambling and even gains Lucifer Morningstar`s attention, although Dream made mention of it throughout his epic dialogues its actually true in a sense. Dream is in fact the very universe of the aspect of dreaming and knows all dreams or when they happen. Dr Solar must be under this very law too. He defeated a powerful demon named Chorozon without much effort in a battle of wits and truths.

What dream states here is very true, also he knows all these things that relate to dreams what you may be wondering or asking is how would it matter in a battle? Well its quite self explanatory and easily comprehensive, being at full power and in control of dream manipulation he would be able to delve into the mind of Dr Solar and exploit weaknesses.

I agree Dream is an absolute badass!

I know Dream has dominion over anyone who dreams but I still think Solar can give him a very hard fight.

#22 Posted by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: why brothers plural but singular sister? (in the OP dialogue)

Anyways, I think Dream's powers kind of allow him to defeat anyone who thinks, so I'm going with him

My bad then, I will change it to plural form. I made it singular for the intention of emphasis on his older sister Death who is more so brought to the forefront in regards to their relationship in family matters.

#23 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7724 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Edited by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

Here's more feats by Solar:

Solar fights a being that instantly adapts to situations. If an attack works once, it will not work again, [much like Doomsday]…

We then see that Solar controls far more then one type of energy:

Solar has complete control over the time stream, because it, like ALL else, is energy:

Solar keeps a dead man alive by moving energy around, but the man’s last wish was to die, so Solar fulfills this request:

An extremely powerful telepath attempts to invade Solar’s mind.... He is easily expelled:

The same telepath attempts to peer into Solar’s mind on another occasion…. This attempt wasn’t successful, period:

Effortlessly defeats a being (called Silver Sky) in a reality of its own creation. A reality where she was

supposed

to be God:

(Read from right to left)

She and other beings admitted that Solar can destroy them all with a blink:

Hows that?

Now those feats are outstanding! Very impressive indeed but it doesn`t really prove those very same methods and tactics would be able to keep someone like Morpheus down.

Morpheus is given his helmet and even within Hell confronts the armies as well as Lords Hell themselves without fear.

Dream and Death conversing about a human women in a reality also its within the view of universal understanding meaning points important to the universe itself.

Dream can invade or come into dreams as well as manipulate them its hinted here although he was on friendly terms with Calliope.

Don`t mess with Dream. He owned Azazel and didn`t put up with him for too long, a bloodlusted and amoral Dream would capture Dr Solar`s energy or manipulate him in the form a dream.

Dream at full power would be a multiversal power within his realm the Heart of Dreaming he cannot really be harmed or killed. Even the demon Azazel made a fatal mistake in finding that out.

Dream controls all of reality with this authority and he even traps Azazel in a small bottle.

A portion of Dream`s power is even a big deal, it can rewrite some form of reality and affect the world as proven here.

Time is nothing to Dream and as you even confirmed that Dr Solar controls even Time itself which is an energy source, the aspect let alone the source existing with time does not even draw any attention from Dream who at full power could control reality with his very will in the dreamscape he could create within the Oblivion.

As stated and confirmed here, Dream himself has existed before TIMEitself which trumps the very essence of Dr Solar when it comes to experience and wisdom. He would have an understanding of what to do against Dr Solar and his manipulation abilities.

Dream pretty much owns everybody here in the wits of gambling and even gains Lucifer Morningstar`s attention, although Dream made mention of it throughout his epic dialogues its actually true in a sense. Dream is in fact the very universe of the aspect of dreaming and knows all dreams or when they happen. Dr Solar must be under this very law too. He defeated a powerful demon named Chorozon without much effort in a battle of wits and truths.

What dream states here is very true, also he knows all these things that relate to dreams what you may be wondering or asking is how would it matter in a battle? Well its quite self explanatory and easily comprehensive, being at full power and in control of dream manipulation he would be able to delve into the mind of Dr Solar and exploit weaknesses.

I agree Dream is an absolute badass!

I know Dream has dominion over anyone who dreams but I still think Solar can give him a very hard fight.

Agreed. Dream is very awesome!!!

That is true, Dr Solar would give Dream quite the fight.

Are you ready for votes?

#25 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

Here's more feats by Solar:

Solar fights a being that instantly adapts to situations. If an attack works once, it will not work again, [much like Doomsday]…

We then see that Solar controls far more then one type of energy:

Solar has complete control over the time stream, because it, like ALL else, is energy:

Solar keeps a dead man alive by moving energy around, but the man’s last wish was to die, so Solar fulfills this request:

An extremely powerful telepath attempts to invade Solar’s mind.... He is easily expelled:

The same telepath attempts to peer into Solar’s mind on another occasion…. This attempt wasn’t successful, period:

Effortlessly defeats a being (called Silver Sky) in a reality of its own creation. A reality where she was

supposed

to be God:

(Read from right to left)

She and other beings admitted that Solar can destroy them all with a blink:

Hows that?

Now those feats are outstanding! Very impressive indeed but it doesn`t really prove those very same methods and tactics would be able to keep someone like Morpheus down.

Morpheus is given his helmet and even within Hell confronts the armies as well as Lords Hell themselves without fear.

Dream and Death conversing about a human women in a reality also its within the view of universal understanding meaning points important to the universe itself.

Dream can invade or come into dreams as well as manipulate them its hinted here although he was on friendly terms with Calliope.

Don`t mess with Dream. He owned Azazel and didn`t put up with him for too long, a bloodlusted and amoral Dream would capture Dr Solar`s energy or manipulate him in the form a dream.

Dream at full power would be a multiversal power within his realm the Heart of Dreaming he cannot really be harmed or killed. Even the demon Azazel made a fatal mistake in finding that out.

Dream controls all of reality with this authority and he even traps Azazel in a small bottle.

A portion of Dream`s power is even a big deal, it can rewrite some form of reality and affect the world as proven here.

Time is nothing to Dream and as you even confirmed that Dr Solar controls even Time itself which is an energy source, the aspect let alone the source existing with time does not even draw any attention from Dream who at full power could control reality with his very will in the dreamscape he could create within the Oblivion.

As stated and confirmed here, Dream himself has existed before TIMEitself which trumps the very essence of Dr Solar when it comes to experience and wisdom. He would have an understanding of what to do against Dr Solar and his manipulation abilities.

Dream pretty much owns everybody here in the wits of gambling and even gains Lucifer Morningstar`s attention, although Dream made mention of it throughout his epic dialogues its actually true in a sense. Dream is in fact the very universe of the aspect of dreaming and knows all dreams or when they happen. Dr Solar must be under this very law too. He defeated a powerful demon named Chorozon without much effort in a battle of wits and truths.

What dream states here is very true, also he knows all these things that relate to dreams what you may be wondering or asking is how would it matter in a battle? Well its quite self explanatory and easily comprehensive, being at full power and in control of dream manipulation he would be able to delve into the mind of Dr Solar and exploit weaknesses.

I agree Dream is an absolute badass!

I know Dream has dominion over anyone who dreams but I still think Solar can give him a very hard fight.

Agreed. Dream is very awesome!!!

That is true, Dr Solar would give Dream quite the fight.

Are you ready for votes?

If Dream can eventually put Solar to sleep then I'll give this to Dream.

If not then I'd say stalemate.

#26 Posted by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

Here's more feats by Solar:

Solar fights a being that instantly adapts to situations. If an attack works once, it will not work again, [much like Doomsday]…

We then see that Solar controls far more then one type of energy:

Solar has complete control over the time stream, because it, like ALL else, is energy:

Solar keeps a dead man alive by moving energy around, but the man’s last wish was to die, so Solar fulfills this request:

An extremely powerful telepath attempts to invade Solar’s mind.... He is easily expelled:

The same telepath attempts to peer into Solar’s mind on another occasion…. This attempt wasn’t successful, period:

Effortlessly defeats a being (called Silver Sky) in a reality of its own creation. A reality where she was

supposed

to be God:

(Read from right to left)

She and other beings admitted that Solar can destroy them all with a blink:

Hows that?

Now those feats are outstanding! Very impressive indeed but it doesn`t really prove those very same methods and tactics would be able to keep someone like Morpheus down.

Morpheus is given his helmet and even within Hell confronts the armies as well as Lords Hell themselves without fear.

Dream and Death conversing about a human women in a reality also its within the view of universal understanding meaning points important to the universe itself.

Dream can invade or come into dreams as well as manipulate them its hinted here although he was on friendly terms with Calliope.

Don`t mess with Dream. He owned Azazel and didn`t put up with him for too long, a bloodlusted and amoral Dream would capture Dr Solar`s energy or manipulate him in the form a dream.

Dream at full power would be a multiversal power within his realm the Heart of Dreaming he cannot really be harmed or killed. Even the demon Azazel made a fatal mistake in finding that out.

Dream controls all of reality with this authority and he even traps Azazel in a small bottle.

A portion of Dream`s power is even a big deal, it can rewrite some form of reality and affect the world as proven here.

Time is nothing to Dream and as you even confirmed that Dr Solar controls even Time itself which is an energy source, the aspect let alone the source existing with time does not even draw any attention from Dream who at full power could control reality with his very will in the dreamscape he could create within the Oblivion.

As stated and confirmed here, Dream himself has existed before TIMEitself which trumps the very essence of Dr Solar when it comes to experience and wisdom. He would have an understanding of what to do against Dr Solar and his manipulation abilities.

Dream pretty much owns everybody here in the wits of gambling and even gains Lucifer Morningstar`s attention, although Dream made mention of it throughout his epic dialogues its actually true in a sense. Dream is in fact the very universe of the aspect of dreaming and knows all dreams or when they happen. Dr Solar must be under this very law too. He defeated a powerful demon named Chorozon without much effort in a battle of wits and truths.

What dream states here is very true, also he knows all these things that relate to dreams what you may be wondering or asking is how would it matter in a battle? Well its quite self explanatory and easily comprehensive, being at full power and in control of dream manipulation he would be able to delve into the mind of Dr Solar and exploit weaknesses.

I agree Dream is an absolute badass!

I know Dream has dominion over anyone who dreams but I still think Solar can give him a very hard fight.

Agreed. Dream is very awesome!!!

That is true, Dr Solar would give Dream quite the fight.

Are you ready for votes?

If Dream can eventually put Solar to sleep then I'll give this to Dream.

If not then I'd say stalemate.

Good point but I think Dream can with all the raw power he possesses.

That could happen but I think Dream is more powerful and more universally as well as authoritatively empowered.

Are you ready for votes now?

#27 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave said:

@jackknight said:

@neongamewave:

Here's some of Solar's early feats:

Solar can manipulate energy through solid matter:

(Read from right to left)

Solar transports himself and his girlfriend across the globe, instantly…

“If you control energy, you control everything… Because everything IS energy”:

(Again read from right to left)

Those are some really good feats and although I do understand the idea of matter manipulation being the prime definite of all manipulation in regards to energy control, I don`t believe it would hinder Dream`s game too much considering he`s not actually a composite for energy but is an idea brought to life in corporeal form.

Here are some more Dream feats, these feats illustrate his summoning/conjuring abilities.

Dream is able to summon a demonic entity to assist him in the finding of Hell and he does this feat with ease being able to have an entity summoned is interesting.

Here's another feat by Solar:

Solar travels to the Quantum Continuum “a backstage to reality”….. A place outside of existence and briefly explains how his power works, and how he really does have control over ALL:

(Read from right to left)

That is very impressive but I doubt he would be able to control Dream or the reality that they are battling in. Some more interesting feats for Dream is within that of his fight with the Duke who he defeated easily and don`t forget that Dream also has a Helmet that grants him more power.

In the first scan, Dream is even described as being the King of Dream and Nightmare Realms which proves his authority also we both know that dreams themselves encompass that of the entire universe and the universe`s holding on reality itself, every or most being experiences forms of sleep that Dream himself personifies and in the later scans he does battle with the Duke in which he is able to easily defeat him as well a powerful entity who could reality warp to a degree also control magic.

Here's more feats by Solar:

Solar fights a being that instantly adapts to situations. If an attack works once, it will not work again, [much like Doomsday]…

We then see that Solar controls far more then one type of energy:

Solar has complete control over the time stream, because it, like ALL else, is energy:

Solar keeps a dead man alive by moving energy around, but the man’s last wish was to die, so Solar fulfills this request:

An extremely powerful telepath attempts to invade Solar’s mind.... He is easily expelled:

The same telepath attempts to peer into Solar’s mind on another occasion…. This attempt wasn’t successful, period:

Effortlessly defeats a being (called Silver Sky) in a reality of its own creation. A reality where she was

supposed

to be God:

(Read from right to left)

She and other beings admitted that Solar can destroy them all with a blink:

Hows that?

Now those feats are outstanding! Very impressive indeed but it doesn`t really prove those very same methods and tactics would be able to keep someone like Morpheus down.

Morpheus is given his helmet and even within Hell confronts the armies as well as Lords Hell themselves without fear.

Dream and Death conversing about a human women in a reality also its within the view of universal understanding meaning points important to the universe itself.

Dream can invade or come into dreams as well as manipulate them its hinted here although he was on friendly terms with Calliope.

Don`t mess with Dream. He owned Azazel and didn`t put up with him for too long, a bloodlusted and amoral Dream would capture Dr Solar`s energy or manipulate him in the form a dream.

Dream at full power would be a multiversal power within his realm the Heart of Dreaming he cannot really be harmed or killed. Even the demon Azazel made a fatal mistake in finding that out.

Dream controls all of reality with this authority and he even traps Azazel in a small bottle.

A portion of Dream`s power is even a big deal, it can rewrite some form of reality and affect the world as proven here.

Time is nothing to Dream and as you even confirmed that Dr Solar controls even Time itself which is an energy source, the aspect let alone the source existing with time does not even draw any attention from Dream who at full power could control reality with his very will in the dreamscape he could create within the Oblivion.

As stated and confirmed here, Dream himself has existed before TIMEitself which trumps the very essence of Dr Solar when it comes to experience and wisdom. He would have an understanding of what to do against Dr Solar and his manipulation abilities.

Dream pretty much owns everybody here in the wits of gambling and even gains Lucifer Morningstar`s attention, although Dream made mention of it throughout his epic dialogues its actually true in a sense. Dream is in fact the very universe of the aspect of dreaming and knows all dreams or when they happen. Dr Solar must be under this very law too. He defeated a powerful demon named Chorozon without much effort in a battle of wits and truths.

What dream states here is very true, also he knows all these things that relate to dreams what you may be wondering or asking is how would it matter in a battle? Well its quite self explanatory and easily comprehensive, being at full power and in control of dream manipulation he would be able to delve into the mind of Dr Solar and exploit weaknesses.

I agree Dream is an absolute badass!

I know Dream has dominion over anyone who dreams but I still think Solar can give him a very hard fight.

Agreed. Dream is very awesome!!!

That is true, Dr Solar would give Dream quite the fight.

Are you ready for votes?

If Dream can eventually put Solar to sleep then I'll give this to Dream.

If not then I'd say stalemate.

Good point but I think Dream can with all the raw power he possesses.

That could happen but I think Dream is more powerful and more universally as well as authoritatively empowered.

Are you ready for votes now?

Yea I think we showed enough feats for both characters.

So yea I'm ready for the votes!!!!!!!!!!!!

#29 Posted by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

#31 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (3053 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Edited by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Edited by Lvenger (23135 posts) - - Show Bio

Characters with these kinds of power sets are things I usually stay away from but this debate was engaged in a thoroughly excellent way. A well met exchange of rebuttals and replies though @neongamewave had more of the edge in those replies IMO. Then, when he mentioned Dream existing before time and not really being affected by it, that was the killer point which for me, means Dr Solar won't be able to ultimately affect Dream with his abilities. Excellent debate to the both of you!

#34 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Characters with these kinds of power sets are things I usually stay away from but this debate was engaged in a thoroughly excellent way. A well met exchange of rebuttals and replies though @neongamewave had more of the edge in those replies IMO. Then, when he mentioned Dream existing before time and not really being affected by it, that was the killer point which for me, means Dr Solar won't be able to ultimately affect Dream with his abilities. Excellent debate to the both of you!

Thanks.

#35 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by Pope052 (3459 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: Gets my vote,

His representation of Dream was just overall better, and well formatted.

Not sure who would win in an actual battle though, but i'll go with Dream.

Online
#37 Posted by KingOfAsh (3935 posts) - - Show Bio

Dream

#38 Edited by Carter_esque (6705 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave@jackknight:

Damn, I hate that I gotta choose between two of my favorite posters lol. I give Neon the slight edge bc of the way he illustrated his points throughout the debate; Plus, I learned a lot about Dream in the process. Both of you did an excellent job of of making cases for your characters so it was tough for me to come to this decision. Can't I just say it's a tie??

#39 Posted by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#40 Edited by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by S0N_of_D3ADP00L (166 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes to @neongamewave, he did an excellent job in debating for Dream.

#42 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by NeonGameWave (10775 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by xlab3000 (3544 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by Wyldsong (6370 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright guys, I thought you both brought great points to the table, and both had scans to back their positions. That being said, I have to give it @neongamewave in a good debate between the two of you.

As for the winner of this fight, I have to back Morpheus. Dr. Solar is ridiculously powerful and would stomp most challengers in a battle scenario. The problem is, Morpheus isn't just any character. He is an idea, a concept, and is an abstract level being with a lot of power. I think he kind of dwarfs Dr. Solar, who would put up a good fight, but would lose this battle.

Thanks to both of you for an interesting and informative debate=)

#46 Posted by XxGin (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

Both of you guys were amazing debaters and as much as I hate to do this.. Neon gets my vote.

Also as for the being who wins this fight.. Sandman. Solar is ridiculously powerful but Sandman is just too awesome. His literally the multiversal enbodiment of dream..

#47 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

#48 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (3053 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight: Is your Abraxas vs Thought Robot thread done yet?

#49 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackknight: Is your Abraxas vs Thought Robot thread done yet?

No yet.

I keep forgetting about it like my "Meet My Character" thread.

#50 Posted by JackKnight (2975 posts) - - Show Bio

Anymore votes?