@_raptor_: They expressed interest in the fight; you not only did the opposite, but you posted your irrelevant opinion on which characters are better. And by arguing with me about it you're continuing to clog the thread, which is exactly what I asked people not to do.
@jedixman Could you delete Raptor's comments please?
This should be Maul’s strongest area, and the area by which he will find victory. He has a distinct advantage over both opponents as well as a general advantage, which will be all important in such a close and likely prolonged encounter. I’ll start with strength, and Force Strength.
To begin, I’ll be asserting the point that Maul is just as physically strong as Vader, or if there’s no clear way to calculate their feats exactly, that they’re negligibly comparable in strength.
From what I can tell, Vader’s best strength feats are shattering a crystalline pillar while he was injured, and is capable of supporting the weight of a dozen men. To compare, Maul has ripped the armored skull off of a Varactyl in one jerk.
Source - Maul: Lockdown
Varacytl's are massive creatures, four meters high, fifteen meters long, weighing roughly 1,150 kilogtams. And it's bone structure appears to be armor-plated, to boot, seeing as it's skull is armor plated. Ripping off this thing's skull should definitely put Maul in Vader's strength range, especially consider that Maul wasn't even augmenting his strength at the time, as per Sidious' instructions:
This was also before prior to TCW, where Maul increased in his overall abilities, which would include strength, according to Jason Fry, the author of Darth Maul Shadow Conspiracy.
But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him. Maul had grown more powerful since the last time he’d been in Sidious’s presence, before the Neimoidian invasion of Naboo had turned disastrous and Obi-Wan had bested him inside the Theed power core.
His hermitage on Lotho Minor, his lessons on Unbara, his restoration by Mother Talzin, and his training of Savage had all strengthened him, made him a more worthy vessel for the dark side to fill with its power. But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious.
Darth Maul Shadow Conspiracy
Aside from this, Maul has a myriad of other impressive strength feats.
Shatters durasteel binders with a jerk, and feels no pain in doing so.
Behind his back, Maul flexed his wrists. The durasteel binders dug into his flesh, but the Sith Lord felt no pain. With a jerk, Maul pulled his arms apart. The binders shattered, scattering bits of durasteel all over the cell's filthy floor.
Episode I Adventures: The Fury of Darth Maul
Shatters the surface of a worktable with a strike.
Maul’s clenched right hand slammed down on the table, shattering its surface, and the vibroblade took flight, nearly impaling itself in his head.
Restraint
Hoisting a 8 foot+, armored creature by the throat, choking it hard enough for blood to spurt from it’s eyes and mouth, and then slamming it to the ground hard enough for it’s neck to break (without Force augmentation).
"The creature in front of him was a walking trophy case of previous kills. Two and a half meters high, its massive shoulders and upper torso encased in jagged plates of primitive armor that clearly had once served as the jawbone and carapace of a much larger predator, it seemed to occupy an entire corner of the prison cell."
"..he fell into a reflexive series of moves. Both hands shot out and grabbed the creature by its throat, hoisting it up over his head and squeezing until he felt the deep tendons of its neck beginning to give and weaken in his grip. There was a wet, muffled click from somewhere inside the thing’s chest and a sudden glut of warm, thick, sticky fluid began spurting up from its throat. Blood. Jet black."
"He tightened his grip, and the screaming sound got louder, becoming a broken, birdlike squawk. More blood leapt up, inky black and viscous, and started pouring from its mouth and eye sockets. Enough. Executing a perfectly balanced spin, Maul swung the creature around and slammed it to the floor with a sharp clang, connecting hard enough that he felt the steel plates reverberate under his feet. The thing’s head drooped on its broken neck.."
Maul: Lockdown
Striking through a wampa’s hide (without Force augmentation):
"Summoning whatever remained of his strength, Maul fired himself at the beast. Hooking his hands into claws, he plunged them through its fur, ripping into the soft tissue of its torso... ...Shoving his hands deeper, he sank both arms in up to the elbow, beneath its rib cage and into its thoracic cavity, groping until he found what he was looking for— the slick, pulsating mass of its heart. Maul grabbed it, laced his fingers together, and squeezed. The wampa’s heart burst between his fingers like a dense and fibrous flower."
Maul: Lockdown
And Maul's strength increased after fighting the wampa.
Maul: Lockdown
Maul muses over how he'd like rip Sadiki Blirr's head off. (I see no reason for him not being able to accomplish this, given his other feats)
Maul: Lockdown
Cracks the vertebrae of a guard.
Maul: Lockdown
Now, the main reason I was getting this point across early is because Maul does have an advantage over Dooku by being physically overwhelming.
Anakin Skywalker, whose strength feats are highly comparable to Vader’s and by proxy Maul’s, has managed to highly strain Dooku's defence, and at the end of their duel overwhelm him entirely (while tapping into Dark Rage).
He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a reverse ankle-sweep-But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack, Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord unceremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan. Skywalker slammed his following strike down so hard that the shock of deflecting it buckled Dooku's elbows. Dooku threw himself into a backroll that brought him to his feet-and Kenobi's blade was there to meet his neck. Only a desperate whirling slash-block, coupled with a wheel kick that caught Kenobi on the thigh, bought him enough time to leap away again, and when he touched down-Skywalker was already there.
The first overhand chop of Skywalker's blade slid off Dooku's instinctive guard. The second bent Dooku's wrist. The third flash of blue forced Dooku's scarlet blade so far to the inside that his own lightsaber scorched his shoulder, and Dooku was forced to give ground.
Dooku felt himself blanch. Where had this come from? Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength-not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing-And only then did Dooku understand that he'd been suckered.
Skywalker's Shien ready-stance had been a ruse, as had his Ataro gymnastics; the boy was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen. His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while also defending against a second attacker.
**
Skywalker was all over him.
The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again.
He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
**
This is the death of Count Dooku:
A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too.
It is that simple, and that complex.
And it is final.
Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail.
The play is still on; the comedy of lightsabers flashes and snaps and hisses. Dooku & Skywalker, a one-time-only command performance, for an audience of one. Jedi and Sith and Sith and Jedi, spinning, whirling, crashing together, slashing and chopping, parrying, binding, slipping and whipping and ripping the air around them with snarls of power.
And all for nothing, because a nuclear flame has consumed Anakin Skywalker's Jedi restraint, and fear becomes fury without effort, and fury is a blade that makes his lightsaber into a toy.
The play goes on, but the suspense is over. It has become mere pantomime, as intricate and as meaningless as the space-time curves that guide galactic clusters through a measureless cosmos.
Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.
Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.
It is this knowledge that shows him his death, makes him handle it, turn it this way and that in his mind, examine it in detail like a black gemstone so cold it burns. Dooku's elegant farce has degenerated into bathetic melodrama, and not one shed tear will mark the passing of its hero.
But for Anakin, in the fight there is only terror, and rage.
Revenge of the Sith
Anakin had tapped into Dark Rage when he finally overwhelmed Dooku, and this is something Maul does frequently. For instance, he drew on his fury after receiving a blaster wound to the arm in order to overwhelm Komari Vosa:
“Your right arm is slowing you down. Even your weapon is betraying you.” Maul kept coming, relying more and more on his left arm, saving the right for when he’d need it most. But Vosa seemed to anticipate everything he was doing, dropping low and then springing up and outward into an open space along a row of diagnostic machinery in the corner of the medbay. Maul’s lower lip drew back to reveal his teeth. If defeating Vosa was what he needed to do in order to get the weapon in the hands of the Gora, so be it. Gripping the lightsaber’s hilt, he squared his shoulders and swung again, thrusting his blade at her in a series of perfectly angled slashes. Vosa came back at him on the offense, both blades spinning.
“Jar’Kai,” Maul snarled, deflecting her assault on reflex. “Predictable.” He swung the lightsaber down, but at that moment the corridor shook again, jerking sideways, throwing them both off. Vosa recovered first, darting back, again too quick, and the speed with which she evaded his attack only inflamed the rage inside Maul’s mind, stoking his wrath until it crystallized into a kind of malignant grace. Now he gripped the lightsaber in both arms, forcing his damaged right arm into service and gripping the hilt of his saber with his full strength. It was time for Juyo, the Way of the Vornskr— the last of the Seven Forms. He seized upon it eagerly, allowing himself to be swept up in the chaotic frontal assault of thrusts, slashes, and jabs.
“Maul—” A tremor of new fear pulsed across Vosa’s face, disrupting her composure, as if she’d finally recognized the true ferocity of his purpose. Darting backward into a desperate evasive measure, Vosa whirled one of her blades behind her, hacking loose a massive shelf of surgical instruments from its place on the wall, and with a swing of the hand she used a Force push to fire them at him in a glinting storm of steel. Maul ducked the flying instruments and bobbed back up with a silent snarl. In his mind, the duel was all but over— his opponent was now dragging out the inevitable moment of defeat in a series of small humiliations. By turning to such diversionary tactics, Vosa had all but admitted that she was no match for the erratic staccato blows that he was delivering, seemingly from everywhere, all at once.
Maul: Lockdown
Likewise, during his duel with Qui-Gon Jinn on Tattooine, he drew on his volatile emotions to power through, and when he realized Jinn was tiring, he poured on even more fury into his strikes:
The Jedi meets my first blow, blocking it. He has expected my flying maneuver.
If an opponent can read you, the fight is over. I don't like that the Jedi was perfectly prepared for my first blow. Within seconds, I throw away my usual combinations and strategies. This Jedi seems to know how I will move before I do.
But he cannot match my strength. I sense this. And I feel his surprise at this. Yet he does not let his puzzlement slow him down. I tell myself that this man has never met an enemy like me before, and it frightens him.
Your fear is justified. Prepare to die.
I accelerate my pace, calling on my anger to increase my power. My footwork has never been so brilliant. I use the shifting sand as resistance. My lightness and quickness will defeat this man, with his large body, his heavy movements.
But he is graceful, this Jedi. The sand doesn't see to hamper him. He is never off balance, no matter where or how I strike.
Our blows send shudders through my body. He meets my strength. Our lightsabers clash and sizzle. Dust and sand rise around us. I never lose my rhythm.
The Jedi calls to the boy, tells him to go back to the ship. The cowardly boy runs off. After I defeat my enemy, I will find the second Jedi.
But I must confess that this Jedi is a challenge. If I leap, he is with me. If I turn, he follows me. He meets my ferocity with his own. His lightsaber swirls and hums, and several times comes closer than I like.
It is because of my wound. It has slowed me down somewhat. It is almost imperceptible, but it is there. The Jedi has an advantage. I am not at my best.
This realization sends more rage pumping into my body. I am angry at myself, but I use the anger to fuel the dark side. I feel the Force come from the Jedi and I send it back to him, showing him that I, too, have a connection, and it is stronger than his. I launch a furious counterattack. I feel like the Jedi is beginning to tire, and triumph rises like a red mist before my eyes. I gain the advantage. I am winning. I will defeat him.
I have been surprised at his skill, but now I am confident of victory. I will savor each moment of this battle.
Even through his fatigue, his blows still have power. He is a large man with impressive strength. He will fall heavily, like a monument.
I feel a savage pleasure course through me. His weakness feeds my power. I drive him back, spin around when he parries, drive him back again. The dust chokes my throat, but I don't notice.
Episode I Journal: Darth Maul
For another comparison - Savage Opress, without having tapped into Force Rage, was able to disarm Dooku of his blade in one strike (and Maul is at least as physically strong as Savage, when you compare their strength showings).
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To add to this, Maul’s prefered lightsaber Form, Form VII Juyo, is based around absolute offence, making use of erratic attacks and overwhelming power to defeat the opponent.
Form VII:
Form VII employed the use of overwhelming power directed through unconnected, staccato movements that kept an opponent continually off-guard.
Juyo:
It involved the use of streamlined attacks, coupled with physical strength, to defeat an opponent.
The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Maul should be able to physically tax Dooku with his overwhelming strength, especially now that his strength has increased during TCW. And if Maul feels that victory is fleeting, he can easily enough tap into Force Rage in order to gain an even more prevalent physical edge of Dooku - and this is likely to happen, because these guys hate each other. The hate is especially relevant on Maul's part, given that Sidious had replaced him with Dooku. And none of this is even bringing Vader into the equation, who likewise has incredible strength.
It’s safe to say that if Dooku has any hopes of surviving a physical encounter, it’d be by, well, not getting into one, and instead relying on his offensive Force powers such as telekinesis and lightning to gain an edge.
Except, Vader and Maul are both already resistant to both blunt force trauma and electric attacks, so Dooku landing a burst of lightning (which would more than likely be caught on their blades anyway) or throwing them with telekinesis really isn’t a game winning option. He would need to choke the air out of their lungs in order to do this, and he just isn’t strong enough in the Force to carry this out. In fact, I’d assert the point that hitting either Vader or Maul with such attacks would only anger them and by proxy make them more dangerous, because both of them are able to use physical injuries to tap into volatile emotions, and therefore further augment their physicality.
For blunt force durability feats:
Gets smashed into a steel wall amongst other types of damage while fighting a Wampa:
Gallery
Maul tanks a strike from a massive creature, clean on the chin, without even cushioning the blow with the Force, amongst other injuries:
Gallery
Here, Maul gets run over by Skycar repulsors, set to an intensity calculated to leave him unconscious. He returns to his feet within seconds.
The skycar passed right over the robed figure at a height carefully calculated to deliver a force from the repulsors sufficient to stun but not kill. It worked; as the vehicle lurched and moved on, Darsha looked behind them and saw the mysterious assailant lying in the street, the fuliginous robes a darker blot against the general darkness. Then Master Bondara brought the skycar to a stop near the two fugitives. Darsha noted with surprise that one of them was a droid.
“Get in,” Master Bondara said to the human. “He’s unconscious, but I don’t know how long he’ll be—” “Not long,” the droid said, and pointed back toward the pursuer. Darsha glanced back and saw to her astonishment that the dark one was already rising to his feet. She could scarcely believe he had recovered from the repulsors’ hammering so fast.
Darth Maul Shadow Hunter
Survives a 30 meter (98 foot) fall through the lower depths of Coruscant. He uses Teras Kasi - which grants him full control over his body - to dodge obstacles on the way down that could kill him, and also uses the force to manipulate gravity and cushion the fall. Even though he had been propelled by an explosion, and was half-stunned, he was able to aim his descent without being killed.
DISCIPLINE. Discipline is all. It conquers pain. It conquers fear. Most important of all, it conquers failure. Discipline is what allowed Darth Maul to survive a thirty -meter fall into a pile of rubble and debris: the discipline of his teräs käsi fighting skills, which gave him complete control over his body, allowing him to utilize midair acrobatics to direct his fall and so avoid striking ornamental projections, ledges, and other potentially lethal obstructions; the discipline of the dark side, which let him manipulate gravity itself, slowing his descent enough to hit the ground without becoming a lifeless bag of broken bones and ruptured organs. Even half stunned by the unexpected explosion of his speeder bike, Maul was able to aim his falling body in such a way as to survive.
Darth Maul Shadow Hunter
For lightning resistance feats, Maul has flat out tanked Mighella's lightning, and after being blasted by Dooku's lightning with no protection (which admittedly made him shout in pain), is able to move around after with no lasting injury:
Gallery
Read right to left
This fight will ultimately boil down to a physical engagement, and that is not where Dooku will be able to win, because where he lacks the physical strength required to repel Vader and Maul’s lightsaber assaults, they have access to impressive enough durability to repel and even benefit from, Dooku’s Force attacks, and therefore, Dooku has no real way of putting either of them down for good. He would only hasten his own defeat by utilising Dun Moch to anger two experienced practitioners of Dark Rage, or by hurting them with lightning/telekinesis.
So, let’s say Dooku is out of the picture, what physical advantages does Maul have over Vader? Not strength, because they should be negligibly close there. Speed shouldn’t be a factor here since by feats they’re pretty comparable (and raw combat speed rarely factors into duels unless it’s something like Sidious vs Sassae Tiin). Durability can’t be of much issue in terms of their lightsabers, for obvious reasons.
Which leaves just about one thing - agility. Maul is an extremely agile combatant, routinely making use of perfectly balanced footwork, somersaults and Force-assisted acrobatics. Not only is Vader severely lacking in this type of agility, but he also lacks the ability to fully compensate for it. Duelists who aren’t as physically formidable or skilled as Maul have given Vader issues with their agility before, as well as a clone of Maul himself (who essentially defeated Vader due to his agility). And while that wasn’t necessarily Vader in his prime, none of those combatants were quite as skilled or physically capable as Maul, and Vader hasn’t shown the ability to compensate for an agile opponent, so these encounters are definitely worth noting.
Vader is more powerful with the Force, which most would think is more important than agility in a fight - but you need to consider that Maul can essentially tank being thrown away by telekinesis, whereas Vader can’t provide the same level of compensation for an agile opponent. This duel will end up being decided in a physical manner, and where Dooku and Vader are lacking in certain areas such as strength and agility, Maul has impressive feats in every category of physicality.
Fighting Skill
I think the general consensus in this area is that Dooku is a tier 9 duelist, whilst Maul and Vader are sitting somewhere within tier 8. Everyone here has a good amount of experience fighting multiple opponents, so that shouldn’t be an advantage or hindrance for anyone. I’m just going to set about proving that Maul is a tier 8 duelist and then hopefully we’re all agreed.
During Maul’s first duel with Jinn, however brief it was, he was dueling evenly with him despite a leg injury, and then rapidly began gaining the advantage once Jinn began tiring.
The Jedi meets my first blow, blocking it. He has expected my flying maneuver.
If an opponent can read you, the fight is over. I don't like that the Jedi was perfectly prepared for my first blow. Within seconds, I throw away my usual combinations and strategies. This Jedi seems to know how I will move before I do.
But he cannot match my strength. I sense this. And I feel his surprise at this. Yet he does not let his puzzlement slow him down. I tell myself that this man has never met an enemy like me before, and it frightens him.
Your fear is justified. Prepare to die.
I accelerate my pace, calling on my anger to increase my power. My footwork has never been so brilliant. I use the shifting sand as resistance. My lightness and quickness will defeat this man, with his large body, his heavy movements.
But he is graceful, this Jedi. The sand doesn't see to hamper him. He is never off balance, no matter where or how I strike.
Our blows send shudders through my body. He meets my strength. Our lightsabers clash and sizzle. Dust and sand rise around us. I never lose my rhythm.
The Jedi calls to the boy, tells him to go back to the ship. The cowardly boy runs off. After I defeat my enemy, I will find the second Jedi.
But I must confess that this Jedi is a challenge. If I leap, he is with me. If I turn, he follows me. He meets my ferocity with his own. His lightsaber swirls and hums, and several times comes closer than I like.
It is because of my wound. It has slowed me down somewhat. It is almost imperceptible, but it is there. The Jedi has an advantage. I am not at my best.
This realization sends more rage pumping into my body. I am angry at myself, but I use the anger to fuel the dark side. I feel the Force come from the Jedi and I send it back to him, showing him that I, too, have a connection, and it is stronger than his. I launch a furious counterattack. I feel like the Jedi is beginning to tire, and triumph rises like a red mist before my eyes. I gain the advantage. I am winning. I will defeat him.
I have been surprised at his skill, but now I am confident of victory. I will savor each moment of this battle.
Even through his fatigue, his blows still have power. He is a large man with impressive strength. He will fall heavily, like a monument.
I feel a savage pleasure course through me. His weakness feeds my power. I drive him back, spin around when he parries, drive him back again. The dust chokes my throat, but I don't notice.
Episode I Journal: Darth Maul
During Maul’s duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn, he was described as being more than their equal in skill.
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan closed with the Sith Lord in a clash of lightsabers that produced the shriek of diamond-edged saw blades cutting through metal. Wheeling across the center of the hangar, the combatants lunged and parried, attack and counterattack carried out in a fierce, no-holds-barred, no-quarter - given struggle. The Sith Lord was supple and quick, and he worked his way between the Jedi with confidence and ease, whipping his two-ended lightsaber back and forth between them, more than holding his own against their efforts to bring him down. He was skilled, Anakin saw-more skilled, perhaps, than the men he faced. And he was confident in a way that was disturbing. He would not be overcome easily.
*
Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one of the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance. He had survived battles that had tested his skill and resolve in every conceivable way.
But on this day, he had met his match. The Sith Lord he battled with Obi-Wan was more than his equal in weapons training, and he had the advantage of being younger and stronger. Qui-Gon was nearing sixty; his youth was behind him and his strength was beginning to diminish. His edge now, to the extent that he had one, came from his long experience and intuitive grasp of how an adversary might employ a lightsaber against him.
Obi-Wan brought youth and stamina to the combat, but he had fought in only a few contests and was not battle hardened. Together, they were able to hold their own against the Sith Lord, but their efforts at attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate.
The Phantom Menace
Jinn has been accoladed with being one of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order has ever seen:
Jinn was generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsmen the Order had ever seen.
The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
And at this point in time, Kenobi is skilled enough to give Jinn a strong challenge in sparring matches:
With a flash and a buzz, the lightsabers met in a raised cross. Both men were breathless, sweating from the exertion. This had been no lighthearted spar.
Obi-Wan looked up at his Master, his eyes bright and intense. It was clear that he had not actually won the match, but that he had stated his case firmly.
The Threat Within
In both the TPM novel and other sources, Maul was at one point noted as anticipating the pair of them "with ease", and in general was more than they could handle even combined, which is highly impressive.
As for Maul’s own accolades, he’s been repeatedly noted as being one of the most highly trained, skilled and lethal/dangerous Sith in history, which shows that he’s not only got the theory and skill, but also the application of his abilities in good standing.
One of the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history, Darth Sidious' apprentice took part in the first encounter between Jedi Knight and Sith warrior for more than 1,000 years in the Battle for Naboo.
As a Sith devotee, Darth Maul drew his power from the dark side of the Force. He was one of the most highly trained Sith in the history of the order.
The Official Star Wars Factfile #1
Darth Maul is Darth Sidious's apprentice and one of the most dangerous and highly trained Sith in the history of the Order.
Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia
Darth Maul is one of the most highly trained Sith in the history Order. Focusing on physical and tactical abilities, Maul serves his master obediently, believing that his own time for strategic wisdom and eventual domination will come.
Star Wars Episode I: The Visual Directory
His other most prevalent skill feats after this include:
Landed a kick on Aayla Secura whilst clashing blades with Mace Windu:
That should do for now.
Force Powers
The main two points I’ll be highlighting here is that Maul can
Use his knowledge of gravity manipulation/Teras Kasi and blunt force durability to stave off any telekinetic assaults
Prevent himself from being dominated by his opponents in telekinesis, due to his own power
First off, it’s worth mentioning that Juyo is a form which leaves the practitioner open to Force assaults. So the likelihood of Dooku and Vader (masterful Force combatants) being able to land telekinetic blows on Maul isn’t out of the equation, in fact it’s quite likely. But the more important question is will they be able to finish Maul through this method? My answer is no.
Here, Maul, even after absorbing some of the shockwave from a nearby explosion (leaving him dazed), manages to use gravity manipulation and Teras Kasi to slow his descent from a 100 foot fall, whilst avoiding obstacles like ledges using full control of his body.
DISCIPLINE. Discipline is all. It conquers pain. It conquers fear. Most important of all, it conquers failure. Discipline is what allowed Darth Maul to survive a thirty -meter fall into a pile of rubble and debris: the discipline of his teräs käsi fighting skills, which gave him complete control over his body, allowing him to utilize midair acrobatics to direct his fall and so avoid striking ornamental projections, ledges, and other potentially lethal obstructions; the discipline of the dark side, which let him manipulate gravity itself, slowing his descent enough to hit the ground without becoming a lifeless bag of broken bones and ruptured organs. Even half stunned by the unexpected explosion of his speeder bike, Maul was able to aim his falling body in such a way as to survive.
Darth Maul Shadow Hunter
He was semi-conscious after landing, but then there isn’t an explosion or 100 foot fall for him to tank here, so a Force push on even ground should be childs play for Maul to tank.
For a more recent feat, Maul was kicked by General Grievous dozens of feet through the air (someone arguably stronger than Vader), yet he lands and doesn’t seem to have any real injury:
Gallery
Do Dooku and Vader have an advantage in Force power? Yes. Does it really matter? Not really.
As for Maul’s own personal power.
At the age of 15, after becoming agitated after a sparring match with Sidious, Maul nearly released a Force scream which would have collapsed the barracks he was inside of.
Its circuitous innards exposed, the combat vibroblade rested on a low table, alongside a small tool kit. Electrodriver in hand, Maul was working feverishly on the knife’s ultrasonic vibration generator, intent on overriding the built-in arrestor to supply the blade with greater slashing power. If he wasn’t permitted to use the Force, then he would use everything short of it to satisfy the rage inside him; to gut every living thing he encountered during the coming Gora solo. Bathe in the blood he would shed, feast on warm flesh… Merely imagining it set his fingers trembling, and abruptly the tool slipped from its tenuous hold in the socket and stabbed deeply into the palm of his opposite hand, opening a small wound and bursting the dam of his pent-up emotion. Maul’s clenched right hand slammed down on the table, shattering its surface, and the vibroblade took flight, nearly impaling itself in his head. Straightening, he bared his filed teeth and tensed his body, close to loosing a scream that would have brought the barracks down around him.
Restraint
Aside from that, leading up to and during TPM he doesn’t have too many impressive telekinetic showings worth bringing up, due to a great deal of restraint on Maul's part. Although it’s worth noting that even after that incident, Maul’s power was steadily increasing, and then during TCW he was noted as being more powerful overall (and by feats, he is).
Moving onto his more recent showings:
Collapsing a large tunnel under the debris from a cliff face:
Pulling an Eta-Class Shuttle from a cliff
Blasting dozens of droids with a Force Wave
With Savage’s assistance, blasting over a 100 soldiers away.
Choking Obi-Wan Kenobi through his Force Shields:
Gallery
Right to left
I don’t think you’d be able to prove that either Dooku or Vader have power sufficient to dominate Maul, which gets back to my point that you simply cannot end him through any means other than with your lightsaber.
Summary So Far
Dooku may be the best duelist here, but he lacks the physical strength to repel both Vader and Maul, and he also lacks the Force power to dispatch either of them for more than a few seconds at best. And if he chooses to practice Dun Moch, there’s a high chance that it could backfire on him, resulting in an even quicker defeat, due to Maul and Vader’s usage of Dark Rage. Likewise, if his lightning was to come into to play, it would likely only inspire Dark Rage in either Vader or Maul, or they would catch it on their blades.
Neither Dooku or Vader have the means to permanently put Maul down with the Force, and with Dooku out of the picture due to Vader and Maul’s overwhelming strength, it becomes a battle of two. Honestly, there isn’t much at all to split Vader and Maul, other than that Maul is far more agile than Vader and a better martial artist. Vader could assert some advantage in telekinesis, I can concede, but someone who can survive tank a 100 foot fall, full-force kicks from General Grievous that send him flying through the air, and other feats such as being hit in the face by a Skycar repulsor with no real damage or injury, isn’t going to be out of this fight by being Force pushed now and again. So really, this fight can only end physically, and that’s evidently where Maul’s victory should lie. His physical abilities are his main expertise, it’s what he was trained in all his life. His outstanding physical prowess is what puts him above Dooku and Vader in this situation, who both have somewhat of an Achilles Heel in this category, whether it be strength or agility.
@i_like_swords: I probably will never be able to respond in the few weeks leading up to November, but I'll try to if I can. Otherwise, we'll just have to wait... painfully long, unfortunately.
The one thing I do have a definite disagreement with is the interchanging between TCW and TPM Maul's feats. Even if one is better than the other, they are mostly two different incarnations of the characters, so using TPM's feats for TCW is something I don't agree with but I will only be able to explain that more later.
@i_like_swords: I really have the urge to rebut right now, but again, to be posting a massive post in response to yours whilst building a case for my own is hard to do in such limited time frames.
I agree on most of this, at least for now. Just a thing or two:
Which leaves just about one thing - agility. Maul is an extremely agile combatant, routinely making use of perfectly balanced footwork, somersaults and Force-assisted acrobatics. Not only is Vader severely lacking in this type of agility, but he also lacks the ability to fully compensate for it. Duelists who aren’t as physically formidable or skilled as Maul have given Vader issues with their agility before, as well as a clone of Maul himself (who essentially defeated Vader due to his agility). And while that wasn’t necessarily Vader in his prime, none of those combatants were quite as skilled or physically capable as Maul, and Vader hasn’t shown the ability to compensate for an agile opponent, so these encounters are definitely worth noting.
Vader is more powerful with the Force, which most would think is more important than agility in a fight - but you need to consider that Maul can essentially tank being thrown away by telekinesis, whereas Vader can’t provide the same level of compensation for an agile opponent. This duel will end up being decided in a physical manner, and where Dooku and Vader are lacking in certain areas such as strength and agility, Maul has impressive feats in every category of physicality.
I havent't seen anyone legitimately give problems to a Vader who has adapted to his suit in terms of agility. As for the Vader vs Maul duel, the latter wasn't a clone, and he won via superior skill and martial ability, not to mention that Vader's focus on his defense and saber throws would compensate for that, and he is agile anyway, just not as much as he used to be. Agility is not Vader's forte obviously, but that doesn't mean that he isn't capable of being agile at all, considering that his lightsaber form incorporates elements from all combat techniques, presumably including Ataru. I think the duel will be decided by skill and power, and the latter is very clearly in Vader's favor, not to mention that these two elements are more important than physical abilites (especially agility, which > speed), unless the difference is huge, and this is not the case.
Fighting skill
I think the general consensus in this area is that Dooku is a tier 9 duelist, whilst Maul and Vader are sitting somewhere within tier 8. Everyone here has a good amount of experience fighting multiple opponents, so that shouldn’t be an advantage or hindrance for anyone. I’m just going to set about proving that Maul is a tier 8 duelist and then hopefully we’re all agreed.
During Maul’s first duel with Jinn, however brief it was, he was dueling evenly with him despite a leg injury, and then rapidly began gaining the advantage once Jinn began tiring.
That might be the general consensus, but not mine, since I rank Vader negligibly below Dooku, and in the same tier. And your own quote says that Qui Gon was a challenge for Maul anyway, not to mention that Ataru is a physically demanding form.
As for Maul’s own accolades, he’s been repeatedly noted as being one of the most highly trained, skilled and lethal/dangerous Sith in history, which shows that he’s not only got the theory and skill, but also the application of his abilities in good standing.
That's fine, but Vader was noted as being one of the best duellists of all time:
The Imperial Knights wear specially crafted armor that uses materials found in the armor of one of the greatest Imperial duellists of all time, Darth Vader
-- Legacy Era Campaign Guide
Yes, the word Imperial adds ambiguity to the quote, so its value might be in jeopardy, but I think it's worth noting.
He was also labelled as an unparalleled duellist even before ANH:
Darth Vader is the embodiment of all evil. Under the guidance of Emperor Palpatine-aka Darth Sidious- Lord Vader controls the Galactic Empire with an iron fist. He's an unparalleled lightsaber combatant and an even more capable Force wielder.
-- Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II: Prima Official Game Guide
And this was before his significant, if not vast, improvement after ANH, not to mention that Sidious regarded Vader as the greatest Jedi killer of all time, which implies that he is better than Maul (at least in Sidious' eyes):
Of all the monsters I have created, I still regard Darth Vader as something of a minor masterpiece. No, he was not an entirely alchemical creation, but he was my monster nevertheless. Even though he failed to live up to his full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Anakin Skywalker from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest Jedi killer of all time. Yes, he ultimately turned against his Master, as monsters sometimes do, but that was my fault, not his. Given the opportunity to create Vader again, I would, and with zeal.
-- Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide To The Force
Dueling evenly with Kenobi again, and breifly dueling evenly with Ventress as well:
Ventress didn't have her second blade though, so this is more of a feat for her than for Maul:
Hastily defeating three Magnaguards with his Saber and one with a Force push/wave.
Which is not better than Vader defeating 4 Jedi before getting used to his suit and adapting his lightsaber style to it, and decades before his prime.
Landed several martial strikes on Kenobi and Jinn during their duel
And Vader outclassed, in both speed and seemingly martial arts, Aurra Sing, who could keep up with and kick both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan multiple times, as well as dodge multiple blaster bolts from several Droidekas at close range. This happened while Vader was arguably holding back:
It took only a few steps. A little of the Force perfectly in tune with bands of lithe muscle. In a second one out-thrust fist would be in his face and she would see what that composite armor was made of. She knew of no one who had ever seen what lay beneath that mask. She intended to be the first.
Her fist never made contact. Raising his right hand and bringing it around in a swift arc, Vader blocked the blow and sent the body behind it flying across the room. As she flew, a startled but still wholly self-aware Sing tucked and rolled. She hit the opposite wall hard, bounced off, landed on her feet, and immediately came at him again.
“The reflexes of an animal,” Vader murmured. His lightsaber hung at his waist. He ignored it, his fingers going nowhere near the weapon. “That’s what the Empire needs: a few more well-trained, domesticated animals.”
“Domesticated? I’ll show you who’s domesticated!” She leapt high, kicking out, and in midthrust somehow bent sideways to kick harder with her other leg.
In a movement preternaturally fast, but which somehow looked almost languid, Vader ducked, reached up, and with one gloved hand lightly tapped her in the middle of her back. A serious thrust catching her in that position could have broken her spine. The Dark Lord’s touch was more of a caress. He was letting her know what he could have done.
Landing in a crouch, a feral expression on her face, she raced at him again, low this time. Her speed was startling: a droid would have been hard-pressed to match her acceleration. She dropped low to the floor and swung her right leg around in a powerful circle sweep. Her intent was to take his legs out from under him.
-- Coruscant Nights II: Streets Of Shadows
Landed a kick on Aayla Secura whilst clashing blades with Mace Windu:
A decent feat, but hat fight is too short and inconclusive to compare Maul to Mace in skill, if that was what you were trying to do.
Force Power
I don't see how Teras Kasi would help him if Vader chockes him, not to mention that the latter also seemingly displayed gravity manipulation
Dooku wouldn't dominate him, but Vader most likely could, seeing how he briefly chocked Galen Marek, who is much more powerful than Maul, years before his prime. And considering that ROTJ is obviously more powerful than TFU Vader, as well as the difference between Marek and Maul, I could certainly see the latter be dominated.
Here, Maul, even after absorbing some of the shockwave from a nearby explosion (leaving him dazed), manages to use gravity manipulation and Teras Kasi to slow his descent from a 100 foot fall, whilst avoiding obstacles like ledges using full control of his body.
He was semi-conscious after landing, but then there isn’t an explosion or 100 foot fall for him to tank here, so a Force push on even ground should be childs play for Maul to tank.
For a more recent feat, Maul was kicked by General Grievous dozens of feet through the air (someone arguably stronger than Vader), yet he lands and doesn’t seem to have any real injury:
Do Dooku and Vader have an advantage in Force power? Yes. Does it really matter? Not really.
Vader can also likely use Gravity Manipulation, so I question Maul's ability to save himself by using this power:
The ship felt wrong beneath Den’s booted feet as he dragged himself upright in the choking swirl of smoke. It was bobbing like a cork, which made no sense. The A-grav field was either on or off. If it was on, the boson field generated mass and stability; if it was off …
He staggered back to the weapons battery and was scared witless when a large, solid figure flew out of the gloom, nearly knocking him down again. It took him a moment to realize that it was Jax. The Jedi reached up into the battery and hauled on the half-deployed ladder. The warped scrap of metal fought his attempt to pull it down fully.
Den heaved himself upward. He was just able to grasp the bottom-most rungs of the ladder and add his weight to it. He heard the sharp, guttural rasp of labored breathing but had no idea if it was Laranth’s or Jax’s or his own. He choked on the acrid vapors, blinked as dying circuitry spat sparks at him.
The ladder jerked downward and Laranth fell from the battery into Jax’s arms, her bones shattered, her life force flickering like the emergency lights that lit her ravaged face. Her left lekku was nearly severed, and a piece of shrapnel had pierced her neck, just beneath her jaw-line, nearly severing a cortical artery.
Den could only cling to the ladder and watch. He pulled his gaze from Laranth’s face and to Jax’s. That was far worse. He had to look away.
He turned his eyes aft and his breath stopped in his throat. I-Five had started toward them from the stern. Yimmon had left the safety of the life pod. Behind them, just climbing out of the stairwell …
“Jax.” Den’s voice was a raw whisper.
He looked back at Jax and Laranth, and caught the moment in which Laranth breathed something into Jax’s ear and then gave her soul back to the Force. It felt as if the entire universe paused to observe the moment before moving forward again.
Jax didn’t need to be told what Den had seen in the aft passage. Den could see that he knew. The knowledge was written in the sudden stiffening of his body, in the hard remoteness of his eyes as he laid Laranth’s broken shell gently on the deck and rose.
His lightsaber hummed to life, lighting the dim corridor with blue-green ambience. Jax stepped aft, the smoke eddying around him. Den watched, helpless, as the Jedi approached I-Five and Yimmon. The Whiplash leader and his droid protector were blocked from escape by a towering black figure flanked by a quartet of stormtroopers.
Darth Vader drew his lightsaber, as well, and took one long step toward Jax and his companions. His weapon thrummed to life, its blood-red radiance spilling up the bulkheads. The ship shifted again, the A-grav field flickering like the lights. One of the stormtroopers hastened to Vader’s side and spoke to him, gesturing upward, his voice too low to hear.
In answer, Vader made a sharp motion with one hand and the stormtroopers turned as one, leveling their weapons at Jax.
“Your dead comrade,” said Vader, his dark voice betraying no emotion, “disabled our stasis field—an act for which she has paid with her life. This ship is drifting into the matter stream between the stars, so you will forfeit that, as well. I have but one more thing to take from you.”
“My life?” Jax asked, his voice harsh and raw.
“No. That would be too easy, wouldn’t it?”
The stormtrooper nearest him turned his helmeted head. “But Lord Vader, the Emperor’s orders—”
Vader raised a gloved hand, fisted, and the trooper fell silent. “I am well aware of the Emperor’s orders. I execute them in my own fashion. What I take from you, Jax Pavan, is the very thing you have been so jealously guarding these many months.”
He turned his masked face toward Yimmon. The Cerean’s eyes rolled back in his head and he slumped against the bulkhead behind him. Vader reached out with his free hand and made a grasping motion that arrested Yimmon’s slide. Two of the stormtroopers moved quickly to grab his arms and lift him up.
Jax and I-Five leapt in unison, Jax’s lightsaber spinning. The stormtroopers fired and a burst of hard, particulate light flooded the passageway.
Den had no time to cover his eyes. He was blinded, utterly. When he was able to see again, Jax stood in the center of the passageway, his lightsaber raised defensively. The corridor was littered with debris. Vader and his troopers were gone, and with them, Thi Xon Yimmon.
The ship was dead in space, drifting toward oblivion. Laranth’s body lay broken on the deck. And I-Five …
Den tried to move and nearly tripped over something at his feet. He looked down. I-Five’s head, battered and blackened, lay on the decking before him.
--
“No,” Den said quietly. “But what if he doesn’t have a choice? Do we know what tech the Emperor’s got up his bloody sleeves? Do we even know what Vader is capable of?”
No, Jax didn’t know what Darth Vader was capable of. Aboard the dying Far Ranger he thought he had seen him fail to manipulate Thi Xon Yimmon’s mind and have to settle, instead, for manipulating gravity. Still …
-- The Last Jedi
Physical strikes obviously wouldn't be a factor against Maul.
At the age of 15, after becoming agitated after a sparring match with Sidious, Maul nearly released a Force scream which would have collapsed the barracks he was inside of.
Vader shook the foundations of a building with a Force Scream decades before his prime:
Vader’s reaction was not what he’d expected. After a frozen instant, ignoring the bloody spittle running down one plasteel cheek, he knelt and grabbed Typho by the hair, lifting the latter’s head and eliciting a cry of renewed pain from him.
“What?” The flare in the Force that raced through the hangar was enough to shake the foundations of the building. The Dark Lord actually seemed to grow, to expand and become more terrible in his rage than Typho would have believed possible.
-- Coruscant Nights II: Streets Of Shadows
Aside from that, leading up to and during TPM he doesn’t have too many impressive telekinetic showings worth bringing up, due to a great deal of restraint on Maul's part. Although it’s worth noting that even after that incident, Maul’s power was steadily increasing, and then during TCW he was noted as being more powerful overall (and by feats, he is).
Moving onto his more recent showings:
Collapsing a large tunnel under the debris from a cliff face:
Vader had even more time than Maul to improve, not to mention that he didn't just focus on his rage like Maul did after TPM, but he also actually trained his powers, as shown in various novels, and his potential most likely exceeds Maul's (by the time of the OT, he was 80% of Palpatine). Furthermore, early Dark Times Vader could certainly stomp TPM Maul with the Force by virtue of having vastly superior Forcce feats.
He also brought down an enormous tree with little effort:
Gallery
Pulling an Eta-Class Shuttle from a cliff
Vader collapsed a noticeably larger mining vehicle with little effort, whereas Maul required more effort to pull a smaller ship. Yes, Maul was likely hindered, but he was also in his prime, whereas Vader was decades before it:
Gallery
He also collapsed four platforms, and the lifted and brought down another platform, and these certainly dwarf that ship in size:
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(skip at 4:07)
With Savage’s assistance, blasting over a 100 soldiers away.
That would be 50 for Maul, and Vader rivaled this showing just a few months after gaining his suit:
There are more or less 30 troops on-panel, but Vader likely hurled more people due to using a Force Wave, which means that he hurled a dozen or two more of them, since the wave would also hit the soldiers at his side, and we only see those in front of him flying.
Choking Obi-Wan Kenobi through his Force Shields:
Vader stomped a group of Jedi with a TK wave, and likely killed them:
As of TFU, he also stomped Rahm Kota, who is arguably in Obi Wan's power class, considering that he could block Lightning with the Force:
Before anyone else could react, Kota whisked the lightsaber from Starkiller's belt and launched himself at the Dark Lord. Vader raised a hand and caught the general telekinetically about the throat. Kota dropped the lightsaber and desperately clutched at the invisible fingers choking him, but the pressure only increased. When his resistance was crushed, Vader threw him bodily toward the stormtroopers and turned his attention elsewhere.
-- The Force Unleashed
Just about all the feats I mentioned for Vader were done with little effort and years or even decades before his prime, and they're already considerably more impressive than Maul's, so I think Vader would be able to dominate him, especially considering that Juyo is a form that leaves the user open to Force attacks.
Conclusions
Dooku may be the best duelist here, but he lacks the physical strength to repel both Vader and Maul, and he also lacks the Force power to dispatch either of them for more than a few seconds at best. And if he chooses to practice Dun Moch, there’s a high chance that it could backfire on him, resulting in an even quicker defeat, due to Maul and Vader’s usage of Dark Rage. Likewise, if his lightning was to come into to play, it would likely only inspire Dark Rage in either Vader or Maul, or they would catch it on their blades.
Agreed. Vader and Maul's strenght advantage would at least cancel out Dooku's small if not negligible skill advantage, so they would all fight more or less evenly.
Neither Dooku or Vader have the means to permanently put Maul down with the Force, and with Dooku out of the picture due to Vader and Maul’s overwhelming strength, it becomes a battle of two. Honestly, there isn’t much at all to split Vader and Maul, other than that Maul is far more agile than Vader and a better martial artist. Vader could assert some advantage in telekinesis, I can concede, but someone who can survive tank a 100 foot fall, full-force kicks from General Grievous that send him flying through the air, and other feats such as being hit in the face by a Skycar repulsor with no real damage or injury, isn’t going to be out of this fight by being Force pushed now and again. So really, this fight can only end physically, and that’s evidently where Maul’s victory should lie. His physical abilities are his main expertise, it’s what he was trained in all his life. His outstanding physical prowess is what puts him above Dooku and Vader in this situation, who both have somewhat of an Achilles Heel in this category, whether it be strength or agility.
Yeah, Dooku is the one who is most at a disadvantage here. His lightning wouldn't be enough to give him a win against both Maul and Vader, especially the latter, who could tank it, block it with his lightsaber, or summon a Force Barrier to at least weaken it. Dooku wouldn't be dominated, but he lacks Maul's durability, so Vader can simply slam him against a wall, killing or incapacitating him, which is certainly in his power, since he was able to push even the Starkiller clone who is far more powerful than the Count.
Aside from that, Vader also has TP, which he can use in a fight, though he rarely does, and it might not affect Maul (it's questionable though, but I'll wait for an answer), but it might affect Dooku, who is nothing special in this regard. Vader has already shown the ability to probe Galen Marek's mind/emotions from lightyears away, so he has another way of possibly winning against the Count, especially considering that Vader is fully capable of using more aggressive and esoteric applications of TP, like Force Illusions Force Fear and possibly Force Horror, but since he is very unlikely to use TP, this wouldn't be a factor in most rounds.
Overall, Maul has no significant advantage against Vader, while the latter has a significant power advantage against Maul, and Dooku would be killed due to Vader being able to slam his against a wall, not to mention that the latter has his strenght, which would negate Dooku's skill advantage. In the end, Vader gets the edge.
@okayalright_44: Unfortunately, not really. I guess it's my fault for having so many issues that I couldn't post for so long, but I might be able to make a post eventually. If it gets accepted....
I wonder what KMC's reaction will be if they hear about this.
Back on-track, though, this does seem like potential for a really good debate. I just hope I'll have the time to be part of it. And that I won't be too lazy to join in. lol
To be honest I think we could be discussing more interesting fights than Maul vs Dooku, it's been done to the death.
Alright, fair enough. Although, to be fair, I skimmed through this and I have to say that Dooku being killed by being slammed into a wall is laughably outrageous. He was kicked by Anakin at full-force and he fell over a fence in RotS, but he was ultimately unharmed. There's also a scene in TCW where Savage sends Tyranus flying into a wall, and once again, he was unharmed.
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