CAV ILS & reikai VS TDLP & TRV (VOTING)

@the_red_viper: Didn't say I saw better cutscenes in Skyrim, just better in general. Skyrim didn't need them because everything went into the game world and making it near infinitely expandable and modable.

You want epic cutscenes? Xenosaga has those.

Or maybe something a bit more down to earth, without planets ripping apart. We still have that in Crisis Core.

Or just about anything in Asura's Wrath, since most of the game is like one giant cutscene or movie.

Or the vampire apocalypse scene in BloodRayne 2. Damn that was good. And I hate Uwe Boll for freaking ruining the franchise with his horrible movies.

There isn't one single enemy in Skyrim that I've seen and said "wow that guy looks cool" or anything like that.

I go with TES as a whole, not just Skyrim. Again, Skyrim is only like 8% of the creatures on the planet.

In Dark Souls, everything is special. And Quelaag couldn't look any more different than a Spider Daedra (according to the picture you posted).

Well here's a more full body picture.

Quelaag is a woman's body ontop of a spiders body. What does this look like to you? It's the same damn thing. And that whole idea is ripped from D&D with the Drow goddess.

The monsters can look nasty an cool, but not really different from things I've already seen in fiction myself. One of them is just a malnurished minotaur with two blades. Which if you switched the bull face with a metal triangle and removed one of the swords, would look like the guy from Silent Hill. All the creature designs look like they were ripped from other media. From RE to Warcraft.

And let's not talk about the dragons... Skyrim's dragons are boring. Dark Souls dragons are, well...

All those same concepts I see are from Resident Evil, World of Warcraft, Breath of Fire, and Lunar: Silver Star Story. Sure, they look different. Doesn't really matter. All these same concepts have been put into use before. There isn't an original idea among them, and there can't be an original idea for dragons because they've been so overdone in fiction and other media as to be impossible to create a completely original dragon concept.

You know what's the difference between us both? I've played both Dark Souls and Skyrim. You've only played Skyrim. And you love Skyrim, I get it, but comparing it to Dark Souls is just plain dumb.

I've read the media, watched the cutscenes and argued with people for over a week about who'd win between CU and Dovahkiin with tons of info on the matter. I know enough about it to have a grasp on it and an opinion of my own.

@reikai: You're not seriously comparing the Capra Demon to Pyramid-Head... those two couldn't be more different...

There isn't an original idea among them, and there can't be an original idea for dragons because they've been so overdone

Have you even looked at Seath and Fluffy? Where exactly have you seen anything like that?

I go with TES as a whole

Which is how many games? We're debating Skyrim VS Dark Souls, not the whole TES series against Dark Souls...

just better in general

You can ask anyone who's played both games. Dark Souls is leagues above Skyrim. In literally every aspect.

Skyrim didn't need them because everything went into the game world and making it near infinitely expandable and modable.

OK... so? What does that have to do with cutscenes?

Well here's a more full body picture.

Touche.

The monsters can look nasty an cool, but not really different from things I've already seen in fiction myself.

I'd love an example.

@the_red_viper: The designs are similar to Pyramid head. You can't deny that. A minor take and their physical appearance is almost identical.

Have you even looked at Seath and Fluffy? Where exactly have you seen anything like that?

Resident Evil 2, mutated Dr Birkin stages.

Make that into a dragon and *poof* there ya go. All the same concepts.

Which is how many games? We're debating Skyrim VS Dark Souls, not the whole TES series against Dark Souls...

A lot.

TES: Arena

TES 2: Daggerfall

An Elder Scrolls Legend: Battlespire

TES Adventures: Redguard

TES 3: Morrowind

TES 3: Tribunal

TES 3: Bloodmoon

TES Travels: Stormhold

TES Travels: Dawnstar

TES Travels: Shadowkey

TES 4: Oblivion

TES Travels: Oblivion

TES 4: Knights of the Nine

TES 4: Shivering Isles

TES 5: Skyrim

TES 5: Dawnguard

TES 5: Dragonborn

TES Online

And I was talkin about critters. Claim was DS had better. You only know those of Skyrim, not all that exist within TES as a whole.

You can ask anyone who's played both games. Dark Souls is leagues above Skyrim. In literally every aspect.

That was about cutscenes, not gameplay. I said I've seen better cutscenes in general. Hence the references to great cutscenes in other series.

OK... so? What does that have to do with cutscenes?

DS needed them to progress the game. Skyrim didn't. And it was a marketing choice. DS needed to make itself look good. Skyrim enabled itself to be modded, which drew in leagues more interest.

I'd love an example.

Breath of Fire 1 Kaiser Dragon

Breath of Fire 3 Tiamut

BoF3 Ryu Dragon

BoF4 Grass Dragon

BoF4 Tyrant Dragon

BoF5 Chetyre Dragon

Drakengard Angelus

And tons more. Need to find a page with the art for the dragons in the Lunar series. And one thing I liked about Angelus and Legna in the Drakengard series was the fact they actually evolved and changed as their enemies got stronger in order to adapt.

@reikai:

Gallery

Resident Evil 2, mutated Dr Birkin stages.

That thing couldn't be any more different than Fluffy...

Gallery

That was about cutscenes, not gameplay. I said I've seen better cutscenes in general. Hence the references to great cutscenes in other series.

Other games really don't matter right now.

DS needed them to progress the game.

Well yeah you know some games actually have epic moments and boss fights. I think Skyrim could use cut scenes. Entering Sovengarde, killing Alduin, tasting the voice of the Greybeards, meeting Karliah for the first time, assassinating the emperor, Ancano killing Savos Aren... all those moments, and many more, could have been much more epic if they were using cut-scenes.

Skyrim is open worlded, I get it. And I think its open world is great. But that doesn't necesarrily make it a better game.

DS needed to make itself look good.

That's... not why they put cut scenes in there. Dark Souls looks great with or without cut scenes. Play the game before you tell me it doesn't look good.

Skyrim enabled itself to be modded, which drew in leagues more interest.

That's because the game gets boring at some point. You play the same things over and over. So one time you clear a dungeon as a stealthy cat-man with a bow and arrow and another time as a screaming Scandinavian with a big axe. Really not that different. The Alduin fight, for example, is the same no matter what character you have (which kinda sucks for a final boss, if you can call this thing a boss). Heck, practically all dragon fights are the same no matter what. That's why they allowed mods-so people won't abandon the game after 2 short playthroughs. I finished Dark Souls like, 8 times already, and it never really was the same. Every time it was different. There are infinite ways to play the game, all of them different from one another. Skyrim just feels the same no matter what. And yes, I've played the game with numerous types of builds.

A lot.

My point exactly. Those are a crapload of games. None of these games individually have a world as rich as Dark Souls'. Let me show you a number of Dark Souls' areas, and yes they all belong in the same world:

Gallery

All those places belong in the same world, which is smaller than Skyrim. The world is just so rich and beautiful. There aren't 2 similar places in Dark Souls.

Skyrim has a snowy region, a forested region and that's pretty much it. Nothing special. When taking all the TES games into account, there are more areas. But you'll never find this wide selection in any one game, and I doubt you can find it in all games combined, too.

And tons more. Need to find a page with the art for the dragons in the Lunar series. And one thing I liked about Angelus and Legna in the Drakengard series was the fact they actually evolved and changed as their enemies got stronger in order to adapt.

Those dragons don't really look like anything from Dark Souls...

@the_red_viper:

That thing couldn't be any more different than Fluffy...

Those spiky things? Ribs.

You remember the dogs in the RE Afterlife movie? The ones that split open at the top? It's kinda the same thing. This kinda thing was pretty standard for the RE series.

Well yeah you know some games actually have epic moments and boss fights. I think Skyrim could use cut scenes. Entering Sovengarde, killing Alduin, tasting the voice of the Greybeards, meeting Karliah for the first time, assassinating the emperor, Ancano killing Savos Aren... all those moments, and many more, could have been much more epic if they were using cut-scenes.

I do agree Skyrim needed something more akin to cutscenes to make the story more involved. When Alduin died, the scene was rather nice. But there was no cinematic, even using the in-game engine, where you delivered that final blow and his body began ripping itself apart.

They didn't involve anything like it until Solstheim and the only thing about that was ripping out a chicks heart, and that was more an animation. Still nice to lift'er by the throat and ram you hand into her chest and rip out the Heart Stone.

My point exactly. Those are a crapload of games. None of these games individually have a world as rich as Dark Souls'. Let me show you a number of Dark Souls' areas, and yes they all belong in the same world:

That's because DS was released in 2011. The first TES game was released in 1994 because they missed their 1993 Christmas deadline. At the time Bethesda had more experience in Sports games than anything else and other developers actually laughed at them thinking they could do an RPG-style game at the time. They didn't have any experience in that area, so they had to bring in help.

In those times, they didn't have the people or technology necessary to create a broad, world-spanning game with a lot of depth. However we saw, from game to game, improvements as technology and storytelling advanced. Everything kept getting bigger and more detailed and they could add more and more than they could before.

Skyrim was released in 2011, same with Dark Souls. They were made on differing principles. Bethesda had a system they'd already built up and were improving on bit-by-bit over many years of development history. Dark Souls was produced by Namco Bandai games, which had a ton of experience in Action/RPG games with which to use in making Dark Souls. Which includes things like Dot-Hack, Xenosaga, Soul Calibur, Tales of the Abyss, Eternal Sonata and many more.

Namco Bandai already had a ton of people who knew what they were doing when DS was put out. The same wasn't true for Bethesda when they started TES in the 90's. So they should get props for actually learning and evolving over the years after starting with almost no idea on how to do an RPG.

All those places belong in the same world, which is smaller than Skyrim. The world is just so rich and beautiful. There aren't 2 similar places in Dark Souls.

Skyrim was only made to focus on how this one region of the world looked like. Still had bogs and deadwoods, glowing fungi and things in Black Reach, luminous caves, the dwemer ruins. The Aetherium Forge actually had magma pools. Solstheim really was a mix of Skyrim's climate with part of Morrowind's. The ash-covered lands, giant mushrooms, the Netch's and other things and you could see Red Mountain blowing smoke and ash endlessly in the distance.

DS was pretty much giving you the whole world in a nutshell. Skyrim was only intended to show you one part of the world that hadn't really been explored yet. We've seen Hammerfell and Highrock in other games, and Morrowind and Cyrodill. We hadn't seen Skyrim yet so that's where they put us.

But now DS2 and ESO will both be out in 2014. DS2 will finish off its story, and ESO will give us the entirety of Tamriel to roam around on as it was in the 2nd Era, as opposed to 4th Era Skyrim. ESO is really just meant to flesh out a point in history that Bethesda hadn't fully explored or explained yet.

But you'll never find this wide selection in any one game, and I doubt you can find it in all games combined, too.

Actually you could. Morrowind had the giant fungi and ashlands and lava flows and things like that. Hammerfell had deserts, Cyrodill had marshes, woodlands and beautiful grasslands. Elsweyr is jungles, sandy deserts and rocky tundras. Black Marsh are thick woodland swamps and marshes. Valenwood is like the most beautiful forested area on Tamriel.

The entirety of Tamriel is quite rich and diverse, which is how a planet should actually be. But we also get to peek into some of the Realms of Oblivion. Like Apocrypha.

Those dragons don't really look like anything from Dark Souls...

Yeah they do, and there's lots more. Heck one of the DS dragons has ram horns. There are several like that. The actual number of dragons in games before DS is in the hundreds. Even see four of the dragons in Lunar 2 Eternal Blue in a scene about 7:48sec in

Loved the Lunar series. And Ghaleon was such a fricken boss. Dude enslaved a goddess and put'er in a skimpy black outfit in the first one.

@reikai:

You remember the dogs in the RE Afterlife movie? The ones that split open at the top? It's kinda the same thing. This kinda thing was pretty standard for the RE series.

I see the resemblence... but there are many distinct differences... first of all, Fluffy's head isn't split apart, only his chest is. Second of all, he's a huge, six legged, winged lizard. Not a dog.

the scene was rather nice. But there was no cinematic, even using the in-game engine, where you delivered that final blow and his body began ripping itself apart.

Meh. It wasn't all too different from any other dragon being killed. I really think that a cut scene with epic music could have added a lot more. Think about it: when Dovahkiin absorbs his 1st dragon soul, near Whiterun, or when the Greybeards summon him. Many stuff like that could have been so much more unique with a cut scene.

However we saw, from game to game, improvements as technology and storytelling advanced. Everything kept getting bigger and more detailed and they could add more and more than they could before.

Naturally.

Unlike COD...

Namco Bandai already had a ton of people who knew what they were doing when DS was put out.

The developers are From Software. Frankly, never heard of them before I bought Dark Souls.

Skyrim was only made to focus on how this one region of the world looked like. Still had bogs and deadwoods, glowing fungi and things in Black Reach, luminous caves, the dwemer ruins. The Aetherium Forge actually had magma pools. Solstheim really was a mix of Skyrim's climate with part of Morrowind's. The ash-covered lands, giant mushrooms, the Netch's and other things and you could see Red Mountain blowing smoke and ash endlessly in the distance.

Yes but that's different. Those caves and ruins are not as different from one another as the areas in Dark Souls. One moment you're in an old, crumbling fortress with craploads of deadly traps, one moment later you arrive in a huge, Vatican-like city covered in white marble. One moment you're in a huge, dark, poisonous underground swamp, one moment later you're in lava-covered demon ruins. One moment you're in a huge archive that's bigger than a modern shopping mall, one moment later you're in a huge crystal cave.

DS was pretty much giving you the whole world in a nutshell.

Not much of a nutshell. You really feel as if each and every area is a world by its own right, yet everything seems connected. That's the beauty of it.

Heck one of the DS dragons has ram horns.

Well yeah... but that's not the "thing" about him.

Even see four of the dragons in Lunar 2 Eternal Blue in a scene about 7:48sec in

Yeah I see them but how are they like the dragons I showed you?

BTW, forgot about it earlier... a draw is fine by me.

@the_red_viper:

I see the resemblence... but there are many distinct differences... first of all, Fluffy's head isn't split apart, only his chest is. Second of all, he's a huge, six legged, winged lizard. Not a dog.

It's the same concept. In fact, quite similar in Full Metal Alchemist when Gluttony shows his true self.

It's all the same concepts.

Unlike COD...

Agreed. That goes without saying.

Yes but that's different. Those caves and ruins are not as different from one another as the areas in Dark Souls.

That's because we're looking at one region, and the Dwemer Ruins were all made by the same race of people, who shared information and knowledge as a collective via telepathy. So there wouldn't be much difference in their ruins and cities, except in size and use.

Nordic ruins are different from Dwemer Ruins, and Khajiit ruins would be greatly different from either of those. It's dependent on region and culture. DS had everything wrapped into one thing, TES takes you from place to place individually, and eventually in ESO we'll see the full scope of Tamriel. Though we're still missing several other regions like Akavir, Atmora and Aldmeris. Which I'm sure they'll make a TES for eventually.

Not much of a nutshell. You really feel as if each and every area is a world by its own right, yet everything seems connected. That's the beauty of it.

There's tons of beauty in TES, and we do see the whole world, but each game thus far has only taken place in a small part of it each time. And there is a seamless transition as you move from area to area and can see the changes in climate from snowy to warmer parts and you see that even in Skyrim.

Even moving south from Windhelm where it's frigid, you go south and it gets warmer, snow melting, more trees and wildlife, and you get a hotsprings area with steam and mist, and back to more wooded areas as we get to Riften, and along the southern mountain border it gets a bit colder and snowier again, beyond which the climate would get warmer again as you leave Skyrim to go into Cyrodill.

Yeah I see them but how are they like the dragons I showed you?

One of them seemed more feathered than scaled, and those've been seen before. One part was more like fur and feline features, which is quite notable in the Lunar dragons. Which is actually quite funny as Nall and Ruby from the Lunar series were often made fun of and mistaken for cats with wings while in their small child-like forms before they inherited their dragon power from the previous one and transformed into their true dragon states.

I think this is more from personal experience. I have seen so many different types and kinds of dragons with so many different concepts mixed and matched together, that those in DS just don't appear original to me because I can pick them apart.

@reikai:

It's the same concept. In fact, quite similar in Full Metal Alchemist when Gluttony shows his true self.

OOOOOH that's like the dude from "The Binding of Isaac"! I beat Dark Souls like 8 times but never got through that f*cking game...

There's tons of beauty in TES

Yeah but that's not what I was talking about. Sure, Skyrim has beautiful regions and all, but what I meant by "beauty" was that the way the world is built. How it all feels different yet the same. It's not like that in Skyrim.

One of them seemed more feathered than scaled

He does look feathered/furry... but no, he's definently scaled. He's an Everlasting Dragon, those bchz are definently scaled. He's about the size of a building, he has 4 wings and is basically a deity.

Let's cut it here, though. Clearly, both Skyrim and Dark Souls are awesome.

Dark Souls is better though =3

@the_red_viper:

Let's cut it here, though. Clearly, both Skyrim and Dark Souls are awesome.

Dark Souls is better though =3

That we can agree is based on personal opinion and taste. You like what you like, I like what I like. As I said before, I like Xenosaga for its great story, while a LOT of people don't like it because of the slow gameplay. And the fact they changed the battle mechanics with every game almost. It would've been better as a CGI movie series as opposed to a game. Though they did make a short Xenosaga anime with it.

I like apples.

@the_red_viper: I like boneless buffalo chicken.^_^

Don't we all