CAV: ILS (Darth Maul) vs Skit (Ken)

Darth Maul (Without the force) Vs Ken (From Sun-ken Rock Manga)

Rules

• This will be a pure hand-to-hand fight with no weapons whatsoever.
• Maul will not be allowed to call upon the force in any way shape or form, whether it be enhancing his physical stats, raising his awareness, or anything else. He will have to rely solely on his natural abilities.
• Neither of these fighters will have any knowledge on each other going into this fight. Nor will they have any time to prepare for this fight. All they know is, they're going to be fighting to the death with a worthy opponent.
• This will be a fight to the death.
• Any morals lingering around will be off for this fight.

Location

Take it away, Michael Buffer!

@skit Is the OP to your likely my man? Lemme know if you want to go first.

@i_like_swords: Looks good, you can go first as I 'm cooking right now.

@skit: Alrighty. Well I'll just give you everything you need to know on Maul.

Basic Info

Maul is a Dathomirian Zabrak, born as a Zabrak Nightbrother on Dathomir. He was taken at infancy by Darth Sidious and trained to be the ultimate Sith warrior. He is a ferocious and merciless opponent with years of brutal training in martial combat, where he was constantly punished for his failures. As a result, failure is now no longer even a concept to Maul. He's a beacon for self-sufficiency and determination, and is not the kind of opponent you want to face in a deathmatch without coming prepared. Most people find him too intimidating to be near after they see him under his black robes. For some people, he's the last thing they see.

As a Zabrak, Maul has two hearts, vestigial horns on his head which he occasionally uses as weapons, and a great tolerance to pain. He can also see in the dark well. He is a master martial artist and one of the most famous practitioners of Teräs Käsi, a martial art developed in 3678 BBY originally for fighting Jedi. He is also in tremendous physical shape.

Physical Stats

Strength/Speed/Striking

Maul is 176lbs of pure power. First, I'll show you just what kind of training he does to get into the kind of shape he's in:

Leaning forward, he placed his right hand between his knees and lifted himself up off the bench with one arm, holding there for a count of fifty before lowering himself and switching to the other arm. He repeated this exercise ten times for each arm, back and forth. Then using both arms he lifted himself straight up into the air, extending his legs, body held erect until every muscle trembled with the strain.

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

That is some serious muscle endurance right there.

Next, some combat feats.

The fight hadn’t lasted long, and only when the blade-bearer had accidentally bumped into him had Maul glanced up long enough to drive an elbow upward and shatter the Rodian’s lower spine. The guards onboard hadn’t even blinked as the Rodian pitched over sideways, wailing and paralyzed, to the deck, where he lay whimpering for the duration of the trip, gazing up through moist and pleading eyes. It was the only time during the entire trip that Maul had moved.

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

Maul shatters a Rodians lower spine before their prison guards could even blink. Impressive showing of striking power and speed.

“You— you don’t understand ,” he said. “You can’t be here. He thinks you’re dead.” Zero started to stand up, and Maul’s hand moved faster than the eye could see, grabbing Zero’s fork and slamming it down so that it impaled the Twi’lek’s sleeve, pinning his arm to the table.

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

Maul moving faster than the eye could see. Granted this isn't a fight situation, but it's impressive nonetheless.

"The creature in front of him was a walking trophy case of previous kills. Two and a half meters high, its massive shoulders and upper torso encased in jagged plates of primitive armor that clearly had once served as the jawbone and carapace of a much larger predator, it seemed to occupy an entire corner of the prison cell."

"..he fell into a reflexive series of moves. Both hands shot out and grabbed the creature by its throat, hoisting it up over his head and squeezing until he felt the deep tendons of its neck beginning to give and weaken in his grip. There was a wet, muffled click from somewhere inside the thing’s chest and a sudden glut of warm, thick, sticky fluid began spurting up from its throat. Blood. Jet black."

"He tightened his grip, and the screaming sound got louder, becoming a broken, birdlike squawk. More blood leapt up, inky black and viscous, and started pouring from its mouth and eye sockets. Enough. Executing a perfectly balanced spin, Maul swung the creature around and slammed it to the floor with a sharp clang, connecting hard enough that he felt the steel plates reverberate under his feet. The thing’s head drooped on its broken neck.."

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

These are the relevant parts from one of Mauls prison fights on Cog Hive Seven. He was facing a savage creature standing at over 8 foot tall, which had killed an innumerable amount of foes during it's own underground fighting career. The thing had to of been weighing.. 250 pounds minimum, with a maximum of somewhere around 300+ pounds, considering it's height and the armor it was wearing. This is a showing which demonstrates Mauls ability to physically dominate even the largest of creatures, and the sheer brutality of his fighting methods.

Durability/Pain Tolerance

Now here's a really cool fight. Remember that massive snow monster (the Wampa) from the movie Episode V, Empire Strikes Back? The one that nearly eats Luke Skywalker? Well, Maul killed one. With his bare hands. This thing was just short of 10 feet tall, had to of been weighing 400lbs or more, had massive claws, tusks and sharp teeth. One of the most feared predators in Star Wars. I'll only document the relative stuff like the punishment Maul took, how he reacted to that punishment, and how he won the fight.

Maul leapt upward , dodging the initial attack— but the creature’s massive arm swung around as it passed, its claws raking his back, ripping through flesh to gouge deep into the muscle along his spine. Maul felt his breath sucked from his lungs. A cruel, hot spike— even now he refused to think of it as pain—took hold of that entire side of his body, settling deep inside his nerve endings.

The wampa’s claw shot forward, slashing diagonally across Maul’s face. The moment of clarity vanished in the hot rush of his own anger. Maul lowered his head, tightening up his core, hearing a new growl rising up— his own growl this time, emanating from the most deep and primal pit of his being. He opened himself to it, the deep venom of wrath taking control, fast and sleek and powerful.

The thing lunged again, sinking its teeth into Maul’s shoulder, hitting crucial nerve bundles. All the strength disappeared from his hand and wrist, his body turning traitor at the worst possible moment. His arms fell slack and he stumbled backward, staring up at his adversary.

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

So as we can see here, Maul took some serious hits during this match. Even having his major nerve bundles being bitten into didn't cause him to give into pain. In fact, this punishment only motivated Maul as the second paragraph shows. So, what was he throwing back at the Wampa, and how did he kill it in the end? Read below:

"Maul slid down through the pool of his own blood, rolled free, and sprang up behind the thing faster that it could turn. Cocking back one arm, he tensed his shoulder and snapped his elbow into the base of the creature’s skull, putting every ounce of upper body strength into a blow that should have shattered its neck. Nothing. It was like launching an elbow strike against solid stone covered with a layer of thick fur."

"..he fell into a low crouch, letting the wampa come at him again. Its next move would be its last. Maul sprang straight upward into it, driving his horned head into the thing’s lower jaw, pulverizing its mandible and slamming needle-sharp bone fragments into its cranial vault. Maul could actually feel the joints and fissures shattering inside the wampa’s skull and knew intuitively that he’d dealt it a killing blow. But when he looked up again, the thing was on its feet and advancing toward him, howling and keening, a blind colossus. The head-butt had left its face a caved-in mass of blood and exposed bone. Somewhere within the cauldron of his anger, Maul felt a wave of disbelief. How was it still fighting?"

"Summoning whatever remained of his strength, Maul fired himself at the beast. Hooking his hands into claws, he plunged them through its fur, ripping into the soft tissue of its torso... ...Shoving his hands deeper, he sank both arms in up to the elbow, beneath its rib cage and into its thoracic cavity, groping until he found what he was looking for— the slick, pulsating mass of its heart. Maul grabbed it, laced his fingers together, and squeezed. The wampa’s heart burst between his fingers like a dense and fibrous flower."

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

That's right.. Maul clawed into the Wampas torso and crushed it's heart with his bare hands. Pretty insane stuff there. He also landed some powerful shots like his lunging headbutt that left the Wampa's face bloody and bone-exposed, and his elbow strike which should have shattered the Wampa's neck.

Next, here's a nice feat of Maul resisting even the most damaging of burn injuries in order to complete his mission:

He clenched his teeth, the heat very close to him now, pressing in from all sides , clinging to him like a second skin. By now the walls had become scalding steel plates, burning the palm of his hand and the fingers holding him in place . The inside of his mouth felt cool by comparison. A drop of sweat hit the floor and he realized that he could actually hear it sizzle. If the temperature kept going up like this, he guessed that he might have another minute or two before he blacked out from heat prostration, and then— He kept working. There was an odd, meaty smell rising up around him, and when his blistered palm shifted slightly on the wall, he realized that it was his own flesh beginning to roast.

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

His flesh was beginning to roast. His palms and fingers which were against the wall, holding him in place, were being blistered by the scalding hot steel plates they were against. A drop of sweat sizzled when it hit the floor. He was in temperatures of 200 degrees and rising. He was basically being cooked in an oven. Yet he endured.

Fighting Skill/Brutality

I think one of Mauls biggest advantages is the brutality of his fighting style. I've already shown him punching through a Wampas torso and squeezing it's heart till it burst, him throwing bone shattering elbow strikes, choking an 8 foot creature until blood spurted from it's mouth and eyes. Now here's some more brutal yet efficient fighting methods of his:

Something broke open inside him, a vein of pure instinct that ran even deeper than his commitment to the mission. On his feet at once, he grabbed the Weequay by his seclusion braids, jerked the other’s head back, and thrust his own head forward, driving the horns of his skull against the inmate’s throat. Radique’s windpipe burst open, splintering beneath the attack. His body fell limp, and Maul released the braids, letting him drop to the floor.

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

Similar to what he did to the Wampa in my above quote, he drives his head-horns into the throat of an opponent, bursting his windpipe, killing him pretty quickly.

The Aqualish made a wet, shuddering noise. “It’s all I know. Don’t kill me. Don’t—” “You were dead when you were matched with me,” Maul said. “But I will give my word to you. It will be quick.” He took hold of Rook’s head with both hands and cracked the thing’s neck in a single, instantaneous jerk. The Aqualish shuddered and fell motionless, slipping backward and toppling from view.

Taken from -- Star Wars: Maul: Lockdown

Kills someone instantly by cracking his neck.

Now I'll discuss Mauls martial arts skill. Here is another one of his training exercises.

The dueling droids were programmed to kill. There were four of them, top-of-the-line Duelist Elites from Trang Robotics, all armed in different ways: one with a steel rapier, one with a heavy cudgel, the third with a short length of chain, and the last with a pair of double-edged hachete fighting blades as long and wide as a human’s forearm. They had been programmed with the skills of a dozen martial arts masters, and their reflexes were calibrated just a hair faster than human optimum. Their durasteel chassis were blaster-resistant. They had come factory-equipped with behavioral inhibitors that prevented them from delivering a death blow once their opponent had been beaten, but these inhibitors had been nullified by their new owner. A mistake against one would be fatal. Darth Maul did not make mistakes.

Taken from -- Darth Maul Shadow Hunter

He takes down these droids in 60 seconds, which isn't even a good time for him.

Darth Maul exhaled, relaxed his stance, and nodded. His heart rate had accelerated perhaps five beats above normal at most. There was the faintest sheen of perspiration on his forehead; otherwise his skin was dry. Perhaps sixty seconds had elapsed from start to finish. Maul frowned slightly. Not his personal best, by any means. It was one thing to face and defeat droids. Jedi were a different matter.

Taken from -- Darth Maul Shadow Hunter

Here's a nice snippet to support my claims of Mauls mastery of martial arts and combat.

Any Jedi Knight could wield a single-bladed lightsaber; only a master fighter could use the weapon first designed by the legendary Dark Lord Exar Kun millennia ago. Unless one was in perfect attunement with it, the weapon could be as deadly to the user as to the opponent.

Taken from -- Darth Maul Shadow Hunter

The weapon being referred to is Mauls saberstaff, or double-bladed lightsaber. It's stated only a "master" fighter could use the weapon, and that unless you were in "perfect" attunement with it, you're as likely to kill yourself as your are someone else. Not that he's using a lightsaber here, but it shows his depth skill and precision.

Summary

I feel like I have shown the following about Maul:

• He is in tremendous physical shape. His strikes are bone shatteringly powerful. He has overpowered larger opponents before and has even punched into the torso of a Wampa, before crushing it's heart.
• His combat speed is extremely impressive, being able to strike faster than people can blink or see.
• His durability is off the charts. He's taken shots from beings much stronger than himself such as the unknown creature he fought, and the Wampa. He's endured having his nerve clusters bitten into and his spine muscle being raked by claws. He managed to ignore being cooked alive at 200 degrees, even having his flesh roasting and his hands being scalded by the steel walls he balanced against. Pain and failure are not even concepts to Maul. You can't hurt him. You can only motivate him to channel his rage further.
• He is a master martial artist, and not only that, he is one of the most brutal fighters I personally have ever come across. Whether he's snapping your neck, crushing your heart, choking blood out of your eyes or shattering your spine - you're not going to have a good time.

I look forward to hearing about Ken!

@skit: Kudos for using Ken.

BUMP

@i_like_swords: Sorry for not posting this last night, cooking took several hours longer than expected and I was to tired after that.

So I'm going to start from the beginning and work my way up(in-terms of feats and story) . Though I will save his more recent feats for now as to overwhelm you, while still giving a good idea.

So I might aswell give you a summary on Ken to since I assume you don't know anything about him. When Ken was in high School he fell madly in love with a girl. Do to her plans to become a police officer in South Korea(to spite her father), she rejected him. The very next day she did. Ken being an idiot dropped everything in his life a week later in pursuit of her. After a year he was not only not a police officer, not reunited and together with the girl and he's completely broke. One thing leads to another and he gets offered a job as a gang member. He refuses due to his morals. After some begging and a fight, they convince him to become the new leader. He reluctantly joined do to his money problems. Since the he has destroyed all of the other gangs in South Korea, though the story is preparing the ending where he goes to war with the white dragon clan which happens to be led by the father of the girl he loves.

Pre Training

So let's go all the way back to the beginning, before he had any formal training. At this point he could already one shot people

and stalemate 4 competent martial artists in complete darkness

Finally he took on a guy who peak human/borderline superhuman

Gallery

He get's wrecked, but it the first two should give you an idea what Ken got. After beating on him for a minute he finally breaks Ken's arms. Despite that Ken still manages to grab him and Headbutt him, after that the decides not to kill him. Anyways the point is Ken can take a beating and can still fight with broken arms a nigh impossible task. Admittedly he was hospitalized for a week after, but still.

Training

This one's gonna be short since theres no point on dwelling on anything besides showing how big the jump is.

Gallery

A guy as big and durable as Jang get's nearly one shotted by the guy who trains Ken and his group for the next year.

Post Training

The training gave Ken a pretty big stats boosts and his skill at H2H and with weapons improve.

Gallery

Ken has rematch against those 4 martial artists from before in addition to a few others, he effortlessly beats them and shows how much his stats have improved.

He can now pick up those wooden desk tables things and just rip them in half and chases down a motorcycle on foot. He also can even hit two guys so hard that they get flung across the room and shatter the camera without directly hitting it.

Now for the Casino invasion where he get's some actual challenge. First off should how competent an average henchman is for the gang he fights is.

Gallery

A single one can take on several henchmen.

Ken's group(and briefly himself) take on 300 of these guys. Mind you each of these 5 went through the same training as Ken, but none of them are on par.

Gallery

So while at the casino, Ken get's into a fight with one of the casino "generals", who is a night peak human whose experience and skill massively outweighs his own. After seeing his friend get his ribs broken, Ken get's angry and effortlessly

Gallery

I'm not including them since the they didn't really include any good feats, but after the previous fight he fought two other generals. Though nothing notable came from them. Anyways, by this point Ken is a bit worn down. So he get's in a fight with the final general who the best of the bunch. Most notable about him is his speed, which was sufficient to do this to one of the members of Ken's group.

Back to the fight, Ken does ok against him until the guy get's pissed and does a number on the already injured and fatigued Ken. We find out the entire time, Ken hasn't really been taking it seriously. When he does, he beats in only a few hit's. Additionally his comment about spending 6 hours a day exercising is worth noting.

So yeah, remember these aren't his best feats. This should give you a rough idea though as to who Mauls going up against.

@skit: No worries, we can take our time on this. No need to rush when we can refine our posts. I'll get to my reply soon, probably within a day or 2.

@skit: I think we've both shown a decent summary of our guys, so I'll try to counter your post as best I can without appearing ignorant, since I know Ken has better feats.

Training

First off, I think we can agree that Maul has had better training. He was taken from infancy and did nothing else but learn how to fight. His entire life revolved around combat because Darth Sidious moulding him into the perfect assassin. He is one of the most disciplined combatants you could hope to train. Failure or weakness aren't even concepts to him.

There is no pain where strength lies.

To Darth Maul, it seemed that his master had always been there, a part of his life— implacable, indomitable, inexorable. Since before Maul learned to walk, discipline had been his guiding beacon. Darth Sidious had molded him from a weak, puling child into the ultimate warrior, sculpting his body and his mind as a seamless weapon. Maul was willing to die for him, without question and without hesitation. Lord Sidious’s goals were the goals of the Sith , and they would be achieved, no matter what the cost.

Maul’s entire existence had consisted of training, of exercise and instruction. Early in his life, before his voice had deepened, Maul had learned the intricate movements and forms of the teräs käsi fighting style, the patterns of movements based on the hunting characteristics of various beasts throughout the galaxy: Charging Wampa, Rancor Rising, Dancing Dragon-snake, and many more. He had practiced gymnastics in environments ranging from zero-g to gravity fields twice that of Coruscant’s. He had mastered the intricate and dangerous use of the double-bladed lightsaber. And all for one purpose: to be the best possible tool of his master’s will.

Taken from -- Darth Maul Shadow Hunter

The Teras Kasi movement patterns that were referenced (Charging Wampa, Rancor Rising, ect) are basically martial arts techniques centred around the predatory behaviours of the most infamous predators around the galaxy. So he isn't only a lightsaber combatant by any stretch of the imagination. Teras Kasi is what Maul is using when he throws an acrobatic kick during a lightsaber fight, and it was also Teras Kasi techniques he used in the fights I showed in my first post. Techniques that allow him to shatter bones, move faster than the eye can see, and even kill massive predators with his bare hands. He's also incredibly acrobatic having trained in zero gravity and double gravity environments. So Maul really is a master combatant with a lot of combat effectiveness, as well as boat loads of training and practical experience.

The training gave Ken a pretty big stats boosts and his skill at H2H and with weapons improve.

Ken has rematch against those 4 martial artists from before in addition to a few others, he effortlessly beats them and shows how much his stats have improved.

He can now pick up those wooden desk tables things and just rip them in half and chases down a motorcycle on foot. He also can even hit two guys so hard that they get flung across the room and shatter the camera without directly hitting it.

Impressive, but not out of Mauls capabilities. Maul is definitely as strong as Ken given his striking feats (shattering bones/skulls, physically overpowering large predators, punching through a Wampa's torso). But apart from that, I think thus far in the debate I've shown that Maul is faster and more durable than Ken. He's moved/struck faster than the eye can see or blink, and the amount of physical punishment he withstood in his prison fights (fighting with a point blank blaster wound, enduring 200 degree heats, taking shots from a Wampa and other predators, as well as even enduring having his muscle and nerve clusters being bitten through), is insane.

Have you got any other of Kens physical feats which show he can hang with Maul in that department?

And aside from that.. he was feared by all of the other prisoners. And these guys aren't unskilled or weak by any means. A teenaged boy inmate was capable of moving at blurring speeds and killing several guards with his strikes after enough training, and even he was considered unready to survive prison fights against some of the various gang members and other inmates. Now, what makes this impressive for Maul is that he actually took over leadership of the two biggest gangs in the prison. Nobody wanted to fight him and everyone feared him, and I'm talking about hardened peak human killers who were also cannibals. The reason Maul has so many feats against large predators opposed to people is because the prison warden knew that Maul would kill them instantly.

Ken's group(and briefly himself) take on 300 of these guys. Mind you each of these 5 went through the same training as Ken, but none of them are on par.

So while at the casino, Ken get's into a fight with one of the casino "generals", who is a night peak human whose experience and skill massively outweighs his own. After seeing his friend get his ribs broken, Ken get's angry and effortlessly

I'm not including them since the they didn't really include any good feats, but after the previous fight he fought two other generals. Though nothing notable came from them. Anyways, by this point Ken is a bit worn down. So he get's in a fight with the final general who the best of the bunch. Most notable about him is his speed, which was sufficient to do this to one of the members of Ken's group.

Kens guys taking on so many henchmen is impressive, but really quality is better than quantity. The casino generals are obviously intended to be physically challenging but I don't quite see this as out of Mauls capabilities either. He has struck faster than people can see, shattering someones spine, nevermind breaking three ribs before you can react. And I'd confidently say Maul is in better shape and better trained than the casino generals. And bear in mind - all of Mauls feats happened while he was in prison. They got terrible, very low nutrition meals, and Maul was fighting regularly, normally always tackling an ongoing injury of some kind. He wasn't exactly in the best shape when he pulled off his feats.

@i_like_swords said:

First off, I think we can agree that Maul has had better training. He was taken from infancy and did nothing else but learn how to fight. His entire life revolved around combat because Darth Sidious moulding him into the perfect assassin. He is one of the most disciplined combatants you could hope to train. Failure or weakness aren't even concepts to him.

Oh of course,Ken is only in his 20s and has only had that 1 year of training. His experience pales to Darth Mauls, Ken's lack of experience has nearly gotten him killed before.

Impressive, but not out of Mauls capabilities. Maul is definitely as strong as Ken given his striking feats (shattering bones/skulls, physically overpowering large predators, punching through a Wampa's torso). But apart from that, I think thus far in the debate I've shown that Maul is faster and more durable than Ken. He's moved/struck faster than the eye can see or blink, and the amount of physical punishment he withstood in his prison fights (fighting with a point blank blaster wound, enduring 200 degree heats, taking shots from a Wampa and other predators, as well as even enduring having his muscle and nerve clusters being bitten through), is insane.

Have you got any other of Kens physical feats which show he can hang with Maul in that department?

Ken has feats of strength and speed aplenty.

I'm just gonna do some feats from an arc, then get to the big stuff which his most recent set of feats. This next set is sort of skippable as they're all more general feats. I'll point out where Ken's best strength and speed feats start.

After the Casino take over ken got offered a job as a manager for a singer due to saving her life. Ken still disliking the idea of being a gang leader decides to take up this offer as an attempt to be legitimate. Some time later he ends finding out how terrible the industry is and the fact his boss is basically a super rapey version of Justin Bieber. Seriously look at him

Back on topic, he finds out about all the stuff going on. One thing leads to another and JB says he'll stop if Ken can beat him in a fight. Ken say's fine figuring that he would humor him since there's no way this guy could possibly be a threat. While that is true, it still didn't stop Ken getting messed up due to not taking the fight seriously.

Gallery

He's fast and strong enough to surprise Ken, make him bleed from one hit and break his neck with a single Kick. Too late to fight back now still manages to block a hit to face despite his broken neck. After this though he's left in a pretty bad shape.

After some stuff happens. Ken basically gets a rematch against JB, but not before getting stabbed.

and getting into a fight with a gang where he get's stabbed again. He also shows some good feats like not even being phased by a baseball bat to his back or lifting up a person while in an armlock.

Gallery

As for the actual rematch, well it's pretty short.

Gallery

So yeah a few hit's and he's down, this when Ken starts tiptoeing into the superhuman category.

Finally, for the return of the guy who broke Kens arms and his newly formed gang. One of the fodder of this new gang can effortlessly beat(and hospitalized) the final general from earlier on and two guards.

So let's take into consideration what being able to hit faster than the general can see. So this fodder can hit faster than the general can see, who can break a nigh peak humans ribs before he can even react. So if that gives you any idea how fast Ken and the boss of this gang is. Here's Ken compared to him

He's safely fodder compared to Ken.

2 can stalemate and 3 can soundly beat a main member of Ken's Gang. They can even tank being used as a baseball.

Also a good durability feat for the Ken's gang member only having a few broken ribs from what looks like nearly 10 stories.

Now for Ken and the Bon Fuu(the guy who broke Kens arms). This where the good feats come in.

Bon Fuu takes out an entire group in an instance

Bon Fuu can legitimately dodge bullets as seen here where he dodge's a bullet shot from complete darkness.

Further backing of this is that the girl in the scan above has dodged a bullet after it's been fired.

Ken can match his speed.

Ken dodges machinegun fire from up close.

So yeah, there you go for speed

As for strength and durability

He fought and won against Mr Train, a superhero who is legitimately superhuman between his size and feats. Between his intelligence, strength, reaction speed and durability. His stats are sufficient to deflect Ken's attacks and fight tigers.

How does Ken beat him? By punching him until Mr. Trains body is actually concerned for it's safety.

By this point Ken can wreck the area accidentally. He even manages overpower Bon Fuu.

Recently Ken got in a fight with the big guy from his gang. Despite how much his stats have improved and his already abnormally large size, he barely can even hurt Ken and even describes hitting him is like hitting a rock.

And aside from that.. he was feared by all of the other prisoners. And these guys aren't unskilled or weak by any means. A teenaged boy inmate was capable of moving at blurring speeds and killing several guards with his strikes after enough training, and even he was considered unready to survive prison fights against some of the various gang members and other inmates. Now, what makes this impressive for Maul is that he actually took over leadership of the two biggest gangs in the prison. Nobody wanted to fight him and everyone feared him, and I'm talking about hardened peak human killers who were also cannibals. The reason Maul has so many feats against large predators opposed to people is because the prison warden knew that Maul would kill them instantly.

Well there is Bon Fuu's gang which is filled with basically superhumans were all scared to death of him without even having a direct fight. Hell an entire country is scared of Ken if we're going by reputation. This is a guy who resents his job and refuses to commit crimes. Yet people fear him simply due to his superhuman nature.

Kens guys taking on so many henchmen is impressive, but really quality is better than quantity. The casino generals are obviously intended to be physically challenging but I don't quite see this as out of Mauls capabilities either. He has struck faster than people can see, shattering someones spine, nevermind breaking three ribs before you can react. And I'd confidently say Maul is in better shape and better trained than the casino generals. And bear in mind - all of Mauls feats happened while he was in prison. They got terrible, very low nutrition meals, and Maul was fighting regularly, normally always tackling an ongoing injury of some kind. He wasn't exactly in the best shape when he pulled off his feats.

The difference is that the general did that to a nearly peak human. Said general is also fodder to current fodder.

@skit:

Now for Ken and the Bon Fuu(the guy who broke Kens arms). This where the good feats come in.

Bon Fuu takes out an entire group in an instance

I don't think this is out of Mauls capabilities.

Bon Fuu can legitimately dodge bullets as seen here where he dodge's a bullet shot from complete darkness.

It sort of looked like aim dodging to be honest. "Ken!" he turns around, looks at her, then moves out the way of the shot.

Ken can match his speed.

Can either of them move faster than the eye can see, or strike someone faster than a guard can blink? I'm finding it tough interpreting a lot of your argument because it's all sort of based on "this fodder gang member can do this, so imagine what Ken can do", rather than what Ken is actually doing.

Well there is Bon Fuu's gang which is filled with basically superhumans were all scared to death of him without even having a direct fight. Hell an entire country is scared of Ken if we're going by reputation. This is a guy who resents his job and refuses to commit crimes. Yet people fear him simply due to his superhuman nature.

Er.. when did anyone here become superhuman besides the Mr Train guy? I'm so confused lol.

I wasn't mentioning the thing about Maul taking leadership of two prison gangs because of the number of people, I mentioned it because of how combat effective they all are yet Maul is too good to be matched with them. I'm sure Maul would have been feared across the galaxy if he hadn't been working behind the scenes. But that wasn't really my point.

Anyhoo I dunno.. I still see Maul as quite far ahead based on the feats I put out. We've agreed he's superior in skill, and I'd actually go as far to say that he dwarves Ken in skill given his 22 year training, master-level accolades and his sheer combat effectiveness.

As for strength he's punched through the body of a Wampa, which, has a much thicker hide than that of a human. He's hoisted up and choked out blood from the mouth and eyes of an 8 foot tall predator. He's regularly broken bones with his strikes, and can kill you with a single headbutt because of his horns.

For speed.. you know, what I've already said. Moving in a blur, striking faster than people can blink or see.

For durability.. just go back to my first post where I talk about the punishment he endured in some of his prison fights.