CAV ILS (Boba Fett) vs Jacthripper (Ult Green Goblin)

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Rules

  • Boba has his duraplast armor, and full gear. Ultimate Green Goblin has clothes.
  • Both guys have basic knowledge of eachother (Reputation, basic understanding of powers/gear, ect)
  • No prep time, random encounter.
  • Fight is in a neutral city like New York. They start 25 feet apart visible.
  • In character, morals are non-existent anyway.
  • Fight to the death, KO or incapacitation.

Cav Viewer Rules

  • Please don't interrupt the debate, post any videos or scans or give your opinion on the fight. If you feel the need to address something, feel welcome to PM me or Jac.
  • When voting, don't base your vote on which character you think would win. Base it on who debated better.

Let's get started!

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Jacthripper

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#3  Edited By Jacthripper

@i_like_swords: Perfect, and Osborn doesn't have gear.

Would you open? Im on mobile so i post my debate via evernote links for the scans.

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@jacthripper: Before I go any further, I don't know a great deal about Ult Green Goblin, other than the fact he's extremely durable, sends out fireblasts and is basically a massive tank. So I'll construct my argument around that.

Boba's Advantages in this fight

  • Maneuverability, flight and reaction speed
  • Fighting skill
  • Range
  • Versatility

Maneuverability, Flight and Reaction Speed

Boba's best chance here is to use his flight speed to play keep away from this green behemoth, which I think he should manage just fine.

No Caption Provided

Dodges X and Y-Wing laser cannons mid-flight, then dodges some more on ground. He can basically fly around Green Goblin, dodging his fire blasts, and let his arsenal loose.

Fighting Skill

Boba is the better fighter here. He's been capable of killing Jedi - beings that casually deflect Mach 2+ blaster bolts, train their whole life for combat and are powerful telekinetics.

For example, here's a statement where Jaina Solo asks Boba to train her to kill Jedi, because he's done it so often himself.

"Fett, you can teach me to bring down Jedi. You've done it often enough."

He's punched out Rahm Kota in one hit, who is an experienced Jedi Master.

No Caption Provided

Managed to outfight and kill a mutated Starkiller clone, that sneak attacked him fully bloodlusted and speedblitzing.

And has even contended with Darth Vader himself, using a casket he wanted as leverage to land blaster bolts on him and escape.

Read from right to left

So really, Fett has proven how adaptive, resourceful and skilled he is even when facing beings of considerable power and speed. He should be able to compete with Green Goblin even when he gets too close for comfort.

Range

While Green Goblin has some nice fire blasts, Boba can dodge them, and probably even tank them, given his armors insane durability to both fire, explosions and concussive impacts.

Here's Boba flying through the thick hide of a Gorog, tanking a direct missile, as well as the debris, and showing how fireproof he is by lighting himself on fire with his flamethrower. And his flamethrower isn't ordinary.. it has a very high velocity, capable of snapping a steel chain:

No Caption Provided

In terms of Boba's own ranged capabilities.. they are plentiful.

  • Mini-concussion rockets
  • Thermal detonators
  • Jetpack missile
  • EE-3 Carbine Blaster Rifle

His blaster rifle is capable of disintegrating someone, and destroying vehicles, in one hit. His jetpack missile can cause massive explosions and blow up entire alleyways. His mini-concussion rockets can take down a Sentinel-Sized robot. And his thermal detonators can engulf an entire castle in it's explosion, even causing some structural damage.

Versatility

I've already shown the diverse set of weaponry Fett is packing above at long-range, but in terms of close-combat, he isn't helpless either.

  • Flamethrower
  • Jetpack Flamethrower
  • Knockout Gas
  • Sonic Grenade

He has his flamethrower on his wrist as well as on his jetpack. He has knockout gas at the ready. And he has a sonic grenade so powerful it even shuts down electronics. So if Ultimate Green Goblin gets close Boba can use this stuff to disorientate him and make some distance.

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Should be good

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I'll do my best, I've been out, so I'll have the reply by 8'ish

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JakeN7

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@i_like_swords: Sweet! Lookin' great so far. Glad to see you moving away from Maul a bit. Tag me for voting.

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#10  Edited By frozen  Moderator

Interesting. Tag me for votes.

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Tag me in buddy

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Please Evernote work, if not ill use the computer tomorrow.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s338/sh/0915354f-2efb-41c6-958c-2d55cbabb273/4b50e4b3b0206e9e7d0bfbc24d051be4

Now some scans in evernote (oh i hate it so)

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s338/sh/7fd0088b-1cb1-4f9f-884c-7f70d61fc531/fe68e71c1d439ef54b189ee09809a207

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s338/sh/9a9b955e-14d0-475a-901d-8b8464408213/1612b7ef66a286c76e2e2a6731eecc40

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s338/sh/020982fb-b1fc-485b-adf8-73488c94105a/3d084abf9b0d77de495af6f714332c7c

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s338/sh/020982fb-b1fc-485b-adf8-73488c94105a/3d084abf9b0d77de495af6f714332c7c

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s338/sh/7d9cbbdd-3649-40f8-a98b-3e2b2b21233f/29171f0fc9dcbb9722b443651b9ff685

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s338/sh/b374c41c-910e-4ba2-9675-e57852ae78c0/648da40b7c1398cc19e2eef59e1bff1a

If this is that inconvenient, ill just use the computer tomorrow.

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@jacthripper: It does take a little while to load, and isn't ideal for countering in-thread. If you could just copy and paste all of it when you're on your computer into here that would help.

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@i_like_swords: ok then ill get it in this afternoon

Sorry

Great Opener!!! I love fett as a character

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#16  Edited By Easternwind
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I thought it was voting already LOL. Anyways, tag me when it is voting.

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@i_like_swords: sorry ill get the text out, i havent been able to get computer access, ill get the ones with scans out by 5 PM Eastern US Time

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Norman Osborn (Earth-1610)

In this particular universe, Norman Osborn is a very different villain from his mainstream counterpart. While he is not as manipulative, he is just as insane and brutal. He has some definite strengths that his counterpart lacked, allowing him to kill his universes peter parker with some other factors involved.

Strength Level- He is able to easily overpower spiderman, destroy tanks, ect. and lift about 25 tons.

Durability Level- In this department Norman is a beast, he has taken several heavy hits including; 100+ ft falls, Missile Strikes, bloodlusted spidey hits, and shrugged them off.

Energy Projection- Norman has pyrokinesis, and can shoot exploding fireballs, set himself on fire for extra damage, and speed himself up a bit with the explosions. He also can absorb heat energy to power himself as seen with his struggle with the human torch.

Speed- He is able to outrun cars, and can leap in a manner similar to golden age superman, though not as far, but fast enough to disappear from sight.

Agility- Due to his size, he is not the most agile, but is still able to avoid missile barrages and gunfire.

Intelligence- While he is not a plotter, he is very strategic in his attacks, and has launched an attack on the white house and was nearly successful in his endeavor, but was stopped by the appearance of the Ultimates, and his son.

Evolution- His greatest ability however, is that he is in a constant state of evolution. There are no exact specifications to what it can do, but it seems to have given him an adaptive ability to some degree.

While Norman is up against the best bounty hunter in the galaxy, he is a brutal monster capable of taking him down.

Scans in my next post

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Not to be demeaning or interrupting, but Boba Fett's fight with Vader was both situational and Fett never really achieved much. The circumstances and setting here is somewhat different as well, so whether this is worth mentioning at all is, honestly, in severe doubt. It might have some credit as far as tactical ability goes, but even then, it's not worth much.

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@shootingnova:

  • Please don't interrupt the debate, post any videos or scans or give your opinion on the fight. If you feel the need to address something, feel welcome to PM me or Jac.

Yousa breakin' dee rulez!

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@jacthripper: I would appreciate that you post scans on the thread, but I'll counter off of what you said for now.

Strength Level- He is able to easily overpower spiderman, destroy tanks, ect. and lift about 25 tons.

Impressive, but rendered moot as an advantage due to the fact he won't be able to tag Maul.

Durability Level- In this department Norman is a beast, he has taken several heavy hits including; 100+ ft falls, Missile Strikes, bloodlusted spidey hits, and shrugged them off.

He obviously has a good amount of blunt force resistance and even some explosive resistance. However, I question if he'll be able to handle a point blank thermal detonator, or being shot by a blaster that is set to disintegrate. If Boba used either of these weapons to target Goblin's brain matter this fight could end very abruptly.

Energy Projection- Norman has pyrokinesis, and can shoot exploding fireballs, set himself on fire for extra damage, and speed himself up a bit with the explosions. He also can absorb heat energy to power himself as seen with his struggle with the human torch.

Good thing Boba is completely fireproof and extremely impact-resistant, and would know not to bother with his flamethrower once Goblin reveals his pyrokinesis (although basic knowledge would tell Boba about this anyway).

Speed- He is able to outrun cars, and can leap in a manner similar to golden age superman, though not as far, but fast enough to disappear from sight.

Agility- Due to his size, he is not the most agile, but is still able to avoid missile barrages and gunfire.

Impressive, although not too fast for him to be too hard to tag. Seeing as Boba regularly contends with precognitive, supersonically fast Jedi, and has killed them often using his varying arsenal, I see no reason he can't tag Goblin here. Also, I'd argue that as per my post above, Boba's avoidance ability via his jetpack and reflexes is also greater than Goblins.

Intelligence- While he is not a plotter, he is very strategic in his attacks, and has launched an attack on the white house and was nearly successful in his endeavor, but was stopped by the appearance of the Ultimates, and his son.

Evolution- His greatest ability however, is that he is in a constant state of evolution. There are no exact specifications to what it can do, but it seems to have given him an adaptive ability to some degree.

While Norman is up against the best bounty hunter in the galaxy, he is a brutal monster capable of taking him down.

I doubt he's more intelligent than the guy who was able to outsmart Darth Vader, and I also doubt it'd require a lot of tactical ingenuity for a 25+ ton strength, missile tanking, fireball launching behemoth to break into the whitehouse.

Evolution is kind of irrelevant, then.

Capable - yes. Will he actually be able to when Boba is actively preventing him from doing so? Nope, not at all. Boba could force a stalemate with his jetpack indefinitely until he decides how he wants to kill Norman, and given his extremely varying arsenal, I doubt this would be much of an issue.

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#25  Edited By Jacthripper

@i_like_swords: I'll get those scans up when I can, but I'll point out a few things

Your first point- This was probably just a little oops moment, but I'm not fighting maul, I'm fighting fett.

I don't know the exact destructive capability of a thermal detonator, but it is an explosive, correct? What is the exact power of the disintegrate function? I thought that it was just implied that he had one by Vader. I forgot to mention the most important part of his durability though, while in Goblin form, he has never been KO'ed, once he's human again, he has been shot in the head and survived. The only reasons he has reverted to human form are;

1. Appearance of his son which caused him to force himself back

2. Iron Man shooting him with a frequency that cancelled out Goblins genetic code

3. The death of his son at his own hands

4. Being beat with a semi truck, which proceeded to explode in addition to Spiderman's death, which after he regressed to human and died with a smile on his face.

With the Pyrokinesis, it's not just fire, but also thermal energy, as in explosions. He can absorb some of Boba's heavier firepower such as his rockets.

I don't intend to use his speed and agility to dodge you, but to attack you. Norman gets hit all the time, it's part of his character. He does manage to tag Spiderman quite a bit though, who is more agile than Boba, even though Boba can be faster with his jetpack.

Actually, the attack on the White House was very strategically smart, considering he did the following

1. Got Peter Parker to help him by capturing his aunt

2. Beat most of Ultimates with the Six

3. Was able to hold his own and defeat Ultimate Cap, Hawkeye, and Wasp

4. Was the last man standing

He also has used tactical attacks against Parker (I'll get scans)

While he is not smarter than Fett, he is smart enough to know that he has the capability to win, and he is nothing if not driven (or crazy)

With general knowledge, he can dodge Fetts attacks or absorb/tank them, and once he gets close enough, he snaps Boba's neck. If you're wondering why the neck snap, it is the most effective attack against an armored opponent due to it not breaking the armor just the dudes neck.

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@jacthripper:

Your first point- This was probably just a little oops moment, but I'm not fighting maul, I'm fighting fett.

LOL. I'm so used to debating for Maul.. I knew that would happen. But yeah, Boba's jetpack and reflexes should be able to keep GG at bay.

I don't know the exact destructive capability of a thermal detonator, but it is an explosive, correct?

Well a thermal detonator Boba has thrown personally, has engulfed an entire castle in the explosion, and caused slight structural damage.

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Another example of the power of a thermal detonator can be seen below:

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I'm sure Green Goblin will be feeling it after a couple of these.

What is the exact power of the disintegrate function?

The power to completely vaporize a target.

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Not that Green Goblin will be vaporized to a charred husk after one of these, but I do not see him tanking one of them lightly. A couple to the brain in conjunction with Boba's other weaponry will be his answer to putting down the durable Goblin.

I forgot to mention the most important part of his durability though, while in Goblin form, he has never been KO'ed, once he's human again, he has been shot in the head and survived. The only reasons he has reverted to human form are;

1. Appearance of his son which caused him to force himself back

2. Iron Man shooting him with a frequency that cancelled out Goblins genetic code

3. The death of his son at his own hands

4. Being beat with a semi truck, which proceeded to explode in addition to Spiderman's death, which after he regressed to human and died with a smile on his face.

He's obviously quite durable to blunt force trauma, I agree. But Boba is dealing a different type of damage. I think we can agree that Boba's more high-tier arsenal would be capable of killing Green Goblin in the event of a head/heart shot. Also, I'd like to point out that if Green Goblin has any particular weak points, Boba will be able to detect them with his scanner, only making it more likely he will pinpoint a kill area on Goblin.

No Caption Provided

With the Pyrokinesis, it's not just fire, but also thermal energy, as in explosions. He can absorb some of Boba's heavier firepower such as his rockets.

Is there a particular example of GG absorbing the level of explosives Boba is packing? Because you even noted earlier that after a beating with a semi-truck, and then an explosion, GG was killed. This suggest to me that his absorption has it's upper limits, and those limits could be broken by a thermal detonator or vaporizing blaster setting.

I don't intend to use his speed and agility to dodge you, but to attack you. Norman gets hit all the time, it's part of his character. He does manage to tag Spiderman quite a bit though, who is more agile than Boba, even though Boba can be faster with his jetpack.

Norman opting to tank attacks will only be his downfall against someone like Fett, who is renowned for his tactical ability. It doesn't, at this point, seem out of Boba's ability to end this fight by keeping at range with flight (something Spider-Man doesn't have), and using his myriad of powerful, lethal ranged weapons (something Spider-Man doesn't have) to kill Goblin.

While he is not smarter than Fett, he is smart enough to know that he has the capability to win, and he is nothing if not driven (or crazy)

I do think we can agree Fett is the smarter fighter, given the feats I showed in my first post of Boba fighting Jedi/Sith.

With general knowledge, he can dodge Fetts attacks or absorb/tank them, and once he gets close enough, he snaps Boba's neck. If you're wondering why the neck snap, it is the most effective attack against an armored opponent due to it not breaking the armor just the dudes neck.

I question if he can dodge Fett's attacks, given Fett has pretty incredible marksmanship and has tagged faster opponents (precognitive, blaster-deflecting force users). Also, he isn't 100% tanking a vaporizing blast or a thermal detonator.

Has he even shown the martial arts knowledge to pull off a neck snap? It could certainly be a viable tactic against someone like Fett who is armored like a tank, but if he hasn't actually shown the use of that tactic, we can't assume he would randomly in this situation.

Even in the event the gap is closed, Fett can use his sonic grenade to disorientate GG and create distance once again. Hell, it could even open him up for a headshot.

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@i_like_swords: I looked at this old thing, realized how badly I was debating, and wondered if we could redo this?

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