Train received intel on someone with immense electromagnetic powers, however the first thing he heard was how big the bounty was for this person: Half a million. He was going to call up Sven and Eve, but decided against it and went at it himself. He drank a bottle of milk and rushed out the nearest door. Meanwhile Ed was following a lead on another possible Philosopher Stone user. While his brother Alphonse was following a separate lead, so they weren't together at the moment. All the information he had lead to a factory. He headed towards the coordinates to get ready to crack the case. Misaka meanwhile while walking around this deserted factory saw blueprints laying about. These blueprints were details on dimensional travel. Misaka contemplated and came to the conclusion that these attempts to formulate these devices could be world threatening. And went on a rampage to destroy the factory. Train finally gets to the factory and sees Misaka causing her rampage. "Hey Princess!" Misaka looks back and made an ignorant assumption that Train was one of the scientist working at the factory and intended to press him for information. "You.... do you plan on killing us all you Baka?!" Train looks at her weirdly and asks "What are you talking about?" Before he could get his answer Misaka sees(or in her case feel due to her special radar) the ground below her changing and quickly jumps out of the way only to see a large stone spike rise up. "You must be the one using the philosopher stone..... no transmutation circle, and its clear you're not like me. You don't seem to have any physical handicaps." Misaka getting tired of all the nonsense constantly appearing in front of her levels the surrounding area with several electrical sparks temporarily shutting off the power then switching it back on "Will you shut up?! Stay out of my way or else i'll have to hurt you." Train looks at Edward and remarks "No physical handicaps but definitely a mental handicap, heh heh." Misaka simply powers up even more and Train and Edward give each other a brief glance then back at misaka and both get ready for combat.
Rules
Morals on(however combatants are willing to take each other down, meaning just because misaka is a little girl doesn't mean train won't shoot a bullet at her.)
Basic Knowledge
No Prep
Train has all his gear and has his railgun ability.
Edward is at his full capabilities prior to when he gave up his powers.
Anime/Manga/Novel/Movie feats/ for all combatants.(this includes both versions of FMA)
Battle takes place in a factory like environment.
Cav Rules
- If you want to correct us on anything or notify either of us do so in a PM.
- Leave the debating to me and HM. Leave your own personal arguments out of it. This is a challenge between two people. Its up to us to debate not you.(Apparently i had to resize this since reading is such a difficult process.)
- Please don't make premature statements in regards to the victor Ex. Misaka Mikoto stomps, this is a mismatch.
- When voting, vote for the person you believed set out a better argument (not necessarily the character that would actually win the fight)
- I heavily encourage trash talk. I love trash talk actually. So go nuts. Cheering is also encouraged.
Memories of his past as a child, in regards to the death of his biological mother and father recur within brief flashbacks and serves as the catalyst for his seemingly indifferent exterior and seamless interior. The mysterious and skilled man who is later found to be Zagine Axelox, is the one that raised Train to be the skilled gunman he is, also becomes part of a reminiscently bitter past, the realization of the cause of his own father and mother's deaths more than enough to push the young boy to the edge. He had grown to respect this teacher; this mentor of his who taught Train how to use a gun in the first place, exposing him to the a world of vigorous training, and also responsible for the Black Cat's notorious love for milk. His mentor is the one who told him that the drink will make his bones stronger. Thus, Train would be stronger.
Not long after he eventually joined chronos then at one point quit and met sven vollfied.
Train has shown remarkable speed and agility when running, as well as being able to run through an entire crowd to get to his target without their notice. Train has also shown that he can wield his gun like a melee weapon and hitting people to avoid shooting them after becoming a Sweeper.
Marksmanship: Train wields Hades, an ornate 6 shot black revolver made out of Orichalcum with an XIII engraved into its side and a lanyard (which could be from Saya's gun). It weighs 2.5 kg. He is an extremely skilled marksman, able to accurately shoot down bullets from other guns, and make a number of bullets hit at exactly the same time as well as ricochet bullets off of multiple surfaces and effictivley hit a target. He is also ambidextrous.
Railgun (written in kanji as 電磁銃 Denjijuu, lit Electromagnetic Gun): When his body became infected with nanomachines he manages to manipulate them to create static electricity. The orichalcum in his gun Hades can act as a catalyst for the nanomachines.This allows him to focus the electricity into the barrel of Hades, turning it into a railgun. He is able to fire three(four if he pushes himself) of these daily, due to the energy consumption it takes to create the electricity.
I'll show more on accuracy later in terms of skill he is straight up amazing.
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Speed blitzing multiple thugs who claim to be the strongest gang in the local area. He was likely holding back considering his tone.
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Creed is a user of an invisible blade and train thought of strategies on the fly during the battle in order to counteract the situation at hand.
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This is a good combat speed showing as well. This man that he technically blitzed is not only a man who is highly skilled and took training that are supposed to make bullets useless in the case a garbell commander runs out of ammo, he can also make projectiles by moving his hand so fast that it creates projectiles(similar to what goku did to chichi during their fight but stronger)
And now the railgun.
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After Receiving Tao, Train can now channel that energy into his gun and shoot out bullets at the speed of an actual railgun. This railgun is powerful enough to puncture steel armor. By the way no one there could perceive the bullet's speed, no one could even perceive its trajectory.
Just to show how quick on the draw he is:
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The railgun is confirmed by sven someone who is decently knowledgeable on weapons, to be exactly that of a real railgun. And we all know how fast those are. So someone on your team better be fast enough to dodge that.
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He has far more showings then simply this but this should be good enough.
Edward Elric
After losing his right arm and left leg due to a failed Human Transmutation attempt, Ed became the youngest State Alchemist in history by achieving his certification at age twelve. Three years later, Ed has become fully engrossed in his search for the legendary Philosopher's Stone, an item with which he hopes to restore his younger brother Alphonse - whose whole body had been lost in the aftermath of that tragic debacle.
Abilities
Despite Edward's small stature and young age, he is a remarkable combatant. Having apprenticed under Izumi Curtis, Ed was taught to condition his body through regular workouts and sparring as part of her philosophy, "to train the spirit, first train the body." As such, his slight frame belies a compactly muscular build that, in addition to his naturally high energy level and endurance, fuels his considerable strength and agility. Due to Izumi's Spartan training, Edward has become a particularly competent hand-to-hand fighter, able to hold his own against armed opponents and even skilled martial arts practitioners. Besides that, his steel right arm and left leg augment his fighting strength by adding to his defensive and offensive capabilities as well as his speed
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Combat Alchemy
As a result of having passed through The Gate and witnessing the Truth, Edward became one of the few alchemists who do not require a drawn Transmutation Circle to perform alchemical transmutations. By merely touching his palms together, he creates an energy circulation with his arms and transmutes by using his own will as a substitute for the necessary runes. This remarkable talent makes his transmutations both instantaneous and incredibly versatile, allowing him to use alchemy to its fullest potential in direct combat.
He can use his alchemy defensively in multiple ways. Here is a example:
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On top of that, the feat above was Edward at the beginning of the manga/Full Metal Alchemist:Brotherhood, and I'd argue that both of the Elric Brothers are significantly more skilled and experienced by the end of the series. Anyways, as you can clearly see, the shield is able to cover an impressive area, and is able to withstand machine gun fire perfectly fine.
With this quick style, Edward becomes a master of his surroundings and uses the substances therein to supplement his physical prowess in battle - creating giant earthen hands to lift objects, columns of stone to gain himself the higher ground and ogre-faced battering rams with which to strike opponents. Ed also specializes in transmuting weapons with which to do battle and often crafts menacing-looking swords and ostentatious lances when necessary, but his primary weapon is his automail right arm, whose forearm plating he transmutes into various blades.
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Misaka is skilled in her own areas but i highly doubt she is going to win against someone who can manipulate the environment around him easily and someone who is just as fast as she is, if not faster and has insane marksmanship.
@deathhero61:Sorry for the wait,but I'm here now.Now I can finally posy my winning character.I will focus on the manga and anime feats.I will get into the light novels feats later.
Let go!!!!
Misaka Mikoto AKA The Railgun AKA The Number 3
Theme Music
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Character Info
Misaka Mikoto is one of the main female characters in the A Certain Series.Misaka Mikoto(aka the Railgun)is Academy City's 3rd rank Level 5 Esper and is rank as the strongest Electromaster.She trained herself as from being a Level 1 to a Level 5 Esper for a couple years.Misaka met Touma Kamijou when she was being hit on by a group of Level 0s thugs.Touma idiotically tried to get Misaka away from the thugs and Misaka gotten piss off enough to release a electric attack.She fried the thugs,but she was shocked that Touma negated her attacks.When Misaka was at a younger age,she gave her DNA for a cure toward a muscle disease.Years later,the DNA was used to create 20,000 clones for a experiment to be purposely be killed by Accelerator.Misaka was horrified upon learning about the Level 6 Shift experiment about killing her clones to boost Accelerator into a Level 6.She tried to faced to fight Accelerator,but she utterly failed to even land a hit on him.She didn't want her closest friends to be involve within the darkest of Academy City.Misaka then tried to destroy the faculties that aid the experiment,but she was unable to do so.It is because Academy City can just make more if needed.Misaka with all hoped lost when she saw Accelerator tried out his reversing blood move on Misaka 10031.Misaka wanted to let her be killed by Accelerator for the chance of the experiment to end.Touma Kamijou founded out about everything the experiment and Misaka was going to do.Touma had faced the Accelerrator and defeated him and the experiment.Misaka has been glad the experiment ended and happy Touma survive his battle.When she see Touma in trouble against a powerful enemy,she will give him aid.Misaka does encountered the Magic Side and team up with Touma against Gremlin and others enemies.
Misaka's Abilities
Misaka's ability is know as the Railgun(Super Electromagnetic Cannon),but she chose the name herself after naming it for her finishing attack.Misaka's ability is class to a type of esper powers known as Electromaster and she is listed as the strongest Electromaster.As the name imply, Misaka can generate and have various control over electricity.Misaka is also a super-genius like most of the Level 5s brains work like super computers to calculate their abilities.
Electricity
Misaka has control of 1 billion volts of electricity
Misaka easily taken down at least several dozen Power Suits.Power Suits are durable enough to withstand anti-tank missiles
Misaka can generate enough electricity to summon natural lightning from the sky.It shown that the sky lightning cause a blackout of large portion of Academy City electronics.
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Electromagnetism
Misaka's electricity can attract and repel metallic materials and she can manipulate as
Misaka manipulated the iron particles in the ground to create an iron sand sword to attack Touma at first,then Misaka extent it longer to gain better range.Touma commented that Misaka can freely control it in the air
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Misaka use her electromagnetism to created a bridge of metal scrapes in mid-air
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Misaka's iron sand slice AIM Burst with ease.AIM Burst is durable enough to tank bullets and explosives with no damage,but yet Misaka's iron sand cut a limp off easily.
Misaka uses her iron sand to casually defend against AIM Burst's offensives attacks
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Radar Sense
Misaka explains it here
The Railgun
Mikoto can fire metal objects at three times the speed of sound by forming parallel currents on both sides of her arm with her electricity. Her railgun has a muzzle velocity of 1030 m/s (mach 3), and can be fired at a rate of 8 shots per minute.
Misaka accuracy shot a spoon out of a esper hand with her Railgun
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Misaka destroy a support tower that holds the Endymion
Misaka destroy AIM Burst with her Railgun
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Speed
Kiyama Harumi throw graviton bombs toward Misaka Mikoto.Misaka set her focus on the bombs in mid-air,but Kiyama threw a graviton bomb behind Misaka.Misaka reacted to the graviton explosion at close range by using her radar sense to warn her from any sneak attacks.This feat alone put Misaka Mikoto's reaction speed in the hyper-sonic range.
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Misaka deflect claymore shrapnel that should move at mach 3.5 without looking it via radar sense.
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This is perhaps her best speed feat,Misaka reacted to Mugino's Meltdowner beams at point blank range.
Summary
Edward will have very difficult time when Misaka can control his mechanical arm
Misaka has better speed feats than your team
Your Team doesn't have the defense to block a Railgun from Misaka
Edward or Train can't react to Misaka's lightning
Misaka won't caught off guard via radar sense
Misaka can use her iron sand both defense and offense
Just Give Up Before You Have The Chance :P!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe Edward but i doubt she is that much faster than Train.
Train's combat speed is far faster than you think.
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Speed blitzes a bunch of mafia members.
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Avoids a point blank grenade explosion, then proceeds to blitz shiki before he can react.
Oh and by the way
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Smoke Bombs. These should be useful.
Train Heartnet is a trained assassin, he's a professional marksmen, but he doesn't specialize in martial arts or anything. He's just really good at fighting. He managed to take on Won, an assassin who is trained in a 500 year old martial art.
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And there was a situation when he was reverted back to a kid. His reactions, his stamina, his strength etc. was heavily reduced because of this, yet he still showed a degree of skill.
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Speaking of that situation, train still showed skill even in his kid form.
Warning shiton of scans may be missing a few:
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He adapted and fought well in a small and weaker form of his usual self.
And im not relying on train's speed at all, his marksmanship and gadgets are more than enough to add on to his advantages.
Plus the thing about Misaka's speed is that its in short bursts. She uses her magnetism in order to propel herself at insane speeds, which explains her ability to jump far distances, at the end of the day she relies on her reaction speed and her Radar Sense heavily. Her reflexes aren't good enough to keep up with someone who's speed and reflexes are legitimate and are taken to the extent and precision of Train.
Pulls out gun and kills opponent after he had already started to pull the trigger.
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Train was keeping up with eve who i already have feats for that prove she is supersonic in terms of speed. He was obviously wasn't trying.
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Here's some basic speed feats for Eve:
Her first real showing of nano technology manipulation.
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This shows how fast she can react and how fast her transformation abilities activate.
And even more speed feats oh joy!
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Dodges hail of machine gun rounds from a skilled combatant as if nothing is going on. Then right after speed blitzing the dude.
He can easily leap 6-7 meters which is about 20-22 feet.
Edward or Train can't react to Misaka's lightning
Her lightning blasts would be kind of predictable. Sometimes in order to get a real good shot in she charges up then preps to shoot lightning. It would be the very simply matter of aim dodging. Plus last minute, Train could protect himself with his gun, or edward can put up a wall to defend against her blasts. Offensively Edward has a lot of potential against misaka as well.
Misaka can use her iron sand both defense and offense
Misaka's powerful alright. But Edward and Train have been in deadly situations against those who are superior to them.
.
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The majority of the fight is simple more amazing combat showcases but this the highlight of it: He had enough arm strength and speed to actually reduce a large amount of damage from a fire blast.
Here is a scan of the wound shiki had due to train's black claw:
I am sure misaka will survive somewhat if she gets tagged by a bullet. But a freeze bullet doesn't sound all too fun.
Good luck trying to survive being frozen by liquid nitrogen. Freeze bullets.
Edward will have very difficult time when Misaka can control his mechanical arm
True. That would be troublesome if she started dragging him around thanks to magnetism. But with Train there i don't think she has much leeway to be doing so. Train will be firing bullets from multiple directions, tossing grenades at her, and attempting to blitz her. So she will have two guys with very diverse capabilities rushing at her with all kinds of attacks.
Your Team doesn't have the defense to block a Railgun from Misaka
Probably not. But her railgun can be countered by Train's. Train's railgun has less destructive power but more piercing power than Misaka's railgun. But that can be boosted via burst bullets. Explosive impact bullets.
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He also has Tear gas bullets, tranquilizer bullets and paralyzing bullets. He can combine the railgun with the burst bullet so the destructive power would be boosted greatly.
Edward has dealt with someone who can manipulate electricity. This same person had a philosopher stone.
https://youtu.be/4OPJY9q6_eA
Ed is also very clever in battle: he's shown the ability to enhance his automail's durability, mimicking Greed's "ultimate shield," transmuted dynamite into poison gases, utilized Scar's unique destruction alchemy, and utilizes his surroundings by generating barriers made out of stone, utilizing stone for offensive purposes and even controlling inanimate objects, as seen here when he utilizes statues for combat:
Maybe Edward but i doubt she is that much faster than Train.
Based on what you shown,I don't think Train speed is on par with Misaka had encountered.
Remember this feat of Misaka reacting to Mugino's Meltdowner?
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You know how fast are Mugino's Meltdowner?
A rain of beams flew by.
With the woman known as Mugino Shizuri at the center, lines of bright, unhealthy-looking light shot out in all directions. They weren’t special electron beams shot out with the force of a lightning strike. Just like light, electrons have the properties of both particles and waves, but Mugino had the power to forcibly control electrons that remained in that “ambiguous” state.
When electrons that were fixed in that ambiguous state struck an object, they couldn’t decide whether to react as a particle or as a wave, so they would “stop” there. Normally, electrons had a mass that was incredibly close to zero, but that “stopping” created a false wall that caused a dreadful amount of destructive force to be strike the target at the speed with which it hit that wall.
That was Meltdowner.
The technical classification was Particle Waveform High-Speed Cannon.
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The Meltdowner beams are pretty much free electron lasers since they're lasers that are made of electrons moving at high speed.To say for the bare minimum,Mugino's Meltdowner moves at relativistic+ speed,but I research that U.S Navy develop that free electron laser weapons can move at speed of light.Mugino's Meltdowner as been describe as beams of light before.Misaka reacted to Mugino's Meltdowner consistently which make her reaction speed to be relativistic+ speed or light speed.
Speed blitzes a bunch of mafia members
Speed blitzed fodder,understood
Avoids a point blank grenade explosion, then proceeds to blitz shiki before he can react.
Look like Train still got tag considering his clothes were damage,but still impressive how you look at it
And im not relying on train's speed at all, his marksmanship and gadgets are more than enough to add on to his advantages
It cool that Train has great gadgets and sharpshooter skills,but they are not enough to take down Misaka
Plus the thing about Misaka's speed is that its in short bursts. She uses her magnetism in order to propel herself at insane speeds, which explains her ability to jump far distances, at the end of the day she relies on her reaction speed and her Radar Sense heavily. Her reflexes aren't good enough to keep up with someone who's speed and reflexes are legitimate and are taken to the extent and precision of Train.
It fair to say Train has better combat speed than Misaka,but his combat speed is far less than what Misaka is used to.Misaka is always reacting to everything being throw at her in battles regardless she's tried or not.
Train was keeping up with eve who i already have feats for that prove she is supersonic in terms of speed. He was obviously wasn't trying.
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Here's some basic speed feats for Eve:
Her first real showing of nano technology manipulation.
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Train casually dodging Golden Darkness(To Love Ru reference)speed is neat,but it isn't as good as Misaka holding her own Brunhild speed.
Her lightning blasts would be kind of predictable. Sometimes in order to get a real good shot in she charges up then preps to shoot lightning. It would be the very simply matter of aim dodging. Plus last minute, Train could protect himself with his gun, or edward can put up a wall to defend against her blasts. Offensively Edward has a lot of potential against misaka as well.
Misaka doesn't really need to charge up to get a shot at Edward or Train for her regular lightning attacks.What I see them getting ready to block or trying to evade is Misaka charging up for the sky lightning if there aren't any clouds in the battle location.I cannot see Train's gun or Edward blocking any natural lightning from the sky unless you got the feats.Iron Sand can block and cut up any of Ed's alchemy attacks.Edward and Train don't have the feats to react lightning moving at it's natural average speed let alone lightning moving at the speed of light.
Bluish-white sparks flew from Mikoto’s shoulder.
“Because it does. You truly will die otherwise.”
The sparks poured out and connected to the railing of the bridge where they vanished. The cat moved away from Mikoto because of the noise of the sparks.
There were only 7 meters between Kamijou and Mikoto.
That distance was too great for Kamijou to reach her in one step, but it was well within the range of Mikoto’s electrical attacks that moved at the speed of light.
It was obvious at a glance who had the advantage and who had the disadvantage given the distance.
Wait?How can Misaka's lightning move at the speed of light?For the people that don't know what are Personal Realities to espers.I post small quotes from the wiki.
Personal Reality (自分だけの現実パーソナルリアリティ Jibun dake no Genjitsu (Pāsonaru Riariti)?, lit. "Reality of Oneself") is the term used to refer to the reality created by students who undergo the Power Curriculum Program, and replace normal reality.As the name states, it is a type of reality that is unique for each individual, and is the very foundation of an esper's power, specifically, it is the source from which all esper powers and phenomena are brought into the real world.
The concept of Personal Reality is related to quantum theory. It allows the user to utterly ignore the Uncertainty Principle, and with regards to the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment, would allow them to choose the possibility they want, or more specifically, distort a micro world using different laws, or more accurately, control their microscopic observations of the world.
It pretty much a minor form of reality warping,espers' personal realities are related to their brain calculating ability.When the Personal Reality of a esper grows,the greater their calculating becomes,therefore they become stronger.Misaka started out as Level 1 to eventually Level 5,her Personal Reality is at a certain level that her lightning can move at light speed.
Also her weaker clones are capable of creating light speed lightning
The girl immediately threw the F2000R at the boy’s face as the rifle was now empty. She did not think that it would act as a fatal blow, but she hoped it would provide an instantaneous opening she could use to escape.
However, the boy did not move even slightly. The instant the rifle struck the boy’s face, the F2000R broke to pieces. It was as if the gun had been chomped on by giant invisible fangs.
The girl did not have time to be frozen in shock. She twisted her body and managed to roll a step away from the boy. She swung around her left hand as she could still move that one and gathered power there.
She released a lightning spear from it.
The spear of purple electricity moved forward at the speed of light and held enough destructive force to knock someone unconscious.
Misaka's powerful alright. But Edward and Train have been in deadly situations against those who are superior to them.
And vice versa to Misaka
The majority of the fight is simple more amazing combat showcases but this the highlight of it: He had enough arm strength and speed to actually reduce a large amount of damage from a fire blast.
Here is a scan of the wound shiki had due to train's black claw
I am sure misaka will survive somewhat if she gets tagged by a bullet. But a freeze bullet doesn't sound all too fun.
While Misaka doesn't have many durability feats and attacks like those that would certainly hurt her.But she won't let herself hit by it and will keep her for her various range attacks.
True. That would be troublesome if she started dragging him around thanks to magnetism. But with Train there i don't think she has much leeway to be doing so. Train will be firing bullets from multiple directions, tossing grenades at her, and attempting to blitz her. So she will have two guys with very diverse capabilities rushing at her with all kinds of attacks.
Considering Misaka carried over 100+ train rails,she can pick up all of the metal on your team.Mind you she was bloodlust in this instance,but she should be dealing with much less material to carry.
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Probably not. But her railgun can be countered by Train's. Train's railgun has less destructive power but more piercing power than Misaka's railgun. But that can be boosted via burst bullets. Explosive impact bullets.
He also has Tear gas bullets, tranquilizer bullets and paralyzing bullets. He can combine the railgun with the burst bullet so the destructive power would be boosted greatly.
Even then,I would have doubts it could match Misaka's.
Edward has dealt with someone who can manipulate electricity. This same person had a philosopher stone.
I notice that Edward defense was destroy being destroy by the electricity attacks and was overwhelm by the end of the video
Ed is also very clever in battle: he's shown the ability to enhance his automail's durability, mimicking Greed's "ultimate shield," transmuted dynamite into poison gases, utilized Scar's unique destruction alchemy, and utilizes his surroundings by generating barriers made out of stone, utilizing stone for offensive purposes and even controlling inanimate objects, as seen here when he utilizes statues for combat:
Edward is quite the clever man,but Misaka has plenty of counters against Edward from the railgun,sky lightning,iron sand,electromagnetism,flight,and etc
The Meltdowner beams are pretty much free electron lasers since they're lasers that are made of electrons moving at high speed.To say for the bare minimum,Mugino's Meltdowner moves at relativistic+ speed,but I research that U.S Navy develop that free electron laser weapons can move at speed of light.Mugino's Meltdowner as been describe as beams of light before.Misaka reacted to Mugino's Meltdowner consistently which make her reaction speed to be relativistic+ speed or light speed.
I have all the scans for the manga version of the fight. Radar Sense and her ability to sense the manipulation of electricity at work allows her to dodge these things at the last second. Also if her reaction speed was light speed that would be a tad bit inconsistent with everything we seen in her fights. Thanks to her Radar Sense i believe this is simply her use the appropriate timing to dodge the attacks. Her Radar Sense has a pretty good range so i wouldn't be surprised if she sensed the lasers being prepped to fire from a distance away. And to add in the scans you presented she basically moved out of the way the second she prepped her lasers. Look closely at your own scans. She was thinking about how she shouldn't be standing. In that exact moment she should be capable of picking up on what she was about to do and dodge before hand. Also look at the gif you posted. You can see Misaka moving before the lasers are fired.
Speed blitzed fodder,understood
Considering how Eve tried to blitz Train but failed to do so you're probably right it doesn't matter. But when has Misaka with her pure reflexes blitzed people?
Look like Train still got tag considering his clothes were damage,but still impressive how you look at it
He outsped the explosion. He had the grenade in his face point blank. No surprise his clothes got damaged.
Its cool that Train has great gadgets and sharpshooter skills,but they are not enough to take down Misaka
Au contraire.
Train also has these types of grenades:
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This could be used in conjunction with a tranquilizer bullet.
It fair to say Train has better combat speed than Misaka,but his combat speed is far less than what Misaka is used to.Misaka is always reacting to everything being throw at her in battles regardless she's tried or not.
Yeah but she has to rely on her Radar Sense heavily along with her reaction speed to dodge attacks. Actually, look at it this way. Who is Hulk more likely to catch consistently? Quicksilver who runs around in predictable straight lines? Or Spiderman who is nimbly dodging all his attacks with agility and precision? Thats basically my comparison of Misaka and Train in that respect. Train will have an easy time dodging since he has trained reflexes and he avoids the attacks launched at him with his own speed, he has speed that surpasses the likes of river who is capable of speed feats like these:
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Train made a fool out of this guy like i previously shown:
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This is a good combat speed showing as well. This man that he technically blitzed is not only a man who is highly skilled and took training that are supposed to make bullets useless in the case a garbell commander runs out of ammo, he can also make projectiles by moving his hand so fast that it creates projectiles(similar to what goku did to chichi during their fight but stronger)
You saw that? With his own combat speed he shot two bullets at two different directions at once. He shot one bullet straight and bounced the other bullet on the ground and it scraped him on the cheek. A similar thing will happen with misaka. Except imagine it with several shots. Bullets coming at her all at once in several directions. You could argue she could see it coming and attempt to react accordingly, but good old edward will be there flanking her with alchemy counters and creations.
Train casually dodging Golden Darkness(To Love Ru reference)speed is neat,but it isn't as good as Misaka holding her own Brunhild speed.
There is context behind that fight, but i'll wait for you to post the full fight before i try to point it out.
Misaka doesn't really need to charge up to get a shot at Edward or Train for her regular lightning attacks.What I see them getting ready to block or trying to evade is Misaka charging up for the sky lightning if there aren't any clouds in the battle location.I cannot see Train's gun or Edward blocking any natural lightning from the sky unless you got the feats.Iron Sand can block and cut up any of Ed's alchemy attacks.Edward and Train don't have the feats to react lightning moving at it's natural average speed let alone lightning moving at the speed of light.
She kind of does. It takes her about 2-3 seconds to fire off a blast. Maybe even half a second, which is all the time Ed and Train need to dodge. As for Iron Sand. Edward can counter her sand with alchemy. With simple deduction. He knows of all the laws of alchemy.
https://youtu.be/O8mMmZ_Zaqo?t=988
16:28-16:33 He can counter her Iron sand by manipulating it in anyway he can or by dispersing or negating it.
Here is another similar showing of Ed performing other forms of alchemy not just his basic most familiar form everyone knows.
https://youtu.be/920GiOfq-qE?t=636
10:36-10:51 Here he freezes the entire river
Heck considering what its made of its possible he can make a smokescreen out of it via alchemy or make a new fresh and efficient weapon out of it.(wow i just got some new amalgam ideas.)
Why would her attacks be light speed? Its clear that cannot be the case. Accelerator basically said that Misaka's lightning is natural in his analysis of touma in their fight. Plus why would it be light speed? I highly doubt that would be the case considering how other characters have avoided her lightning attacks.
While Misaka doesn't have many durability feats and attacks like those that would certainly hurt her.But she won't let herself hit by it and will keep her for her various range attacks.
Lets see, two bullet timers rushing her, one shooting bullets from several angles, the other manipulating the terrain to his liking. Good luck.
https://youtu.be/LRNRNma9pXs?t=981
16:21-17:22
Considering train's agility and markmanship(something a lot of her ranged opponents did not have I mean Mugino was accurate and precise but throughout most of the encounter she was relying on Frenda to flank her and that other esper in order to pinpoint her exact positioning and location.)
Here is another showcase of train's speed and skill:
Gallery
He was hopping all around, easily dodging the guy's shots, effortlessly blocking them as well, and even pulled off a trick in order to fool him in a smokescreen. This fight is essentially how Misaka's encounter with train could potentially go. Except worse since Edward's also there.
https://youtu.be/f4LWHIIYHE4?t=923
15:23-17:08
The battle takes place in a factory, all kinds of things could benefit Edward. Although the same applies to Misaka, with the way Edward's powers are designed, good luck trying to find a lot of use for scrap metal in comparison to someone who can shape it into virtually anything he wants.
Considering Misaka carried over 100+ train rails,she can pick up all of the metal on your team.Mind you she was bloodlust in this instance,but she should be dealing with much less material to carry.
Can you elaborate on what she will be doing during this battle? Especially with Ed and Train ganging up on her the way they will?
Even then,I would have doubts it could match Misaka's.
True. But Train's Railgun is actually several times the speed of sound while Misaka's railgun for some strange reason is consistently being stated to be as fast as Mach 3.(Considering its feats its probably way faster, far far faster) Speaking of which, can Misaka react to a railgun?(If push comes to shove Train may have no choice but to use this.) I recall Accelerator reflecting one back at her and she couldn't do a thing. Train tries to use his railgun which won't be as easily predictable as Misaka's.(We have a brilliant mind like Edward here. Its very likely Misaka won't use the Railgun right away, but after seeing everything she can do seeing her pull out a coin spark up then flipping it into the air won't give him any good signs.)
I notice that Edward defense was destroy being destroy by the electricity attacks and was overwhelm by the end of the video
True, the opponent had a philosopher stone however so no surprise.
Edward is quite the clever man,but Misaka has plenty of counters against Edward from the railgun,sky lightning,iron sand,electromagnetism,flight,and etc
She won't use Railgun at the beginning of a battle which will lead to the ability to being potentially predicted when she pulls out her coins, based off the location the sky seems pretty clear to me so it will take her some seconds to prep some sky lightning. Iron Sand can be avoided and countered. And any attempt to mess with Edward's automail will be stopped by train.(By the way i am not sure if you are going to bring this up but Train's gun is made of special material so don't think Misaka can just control it.)
To sum up
Train has enough agility and speed and skillful marksmanship to tag Misaka at least with one bullet, and whether its a lethal or non-lethal bullet, whichever it is, it will slow down her movements significantly.
Edward's alchemy is a sufficient enough counter to Misaka's electromagnetism.
Both Train and Edward are fast enough to keep up with Misaka physically.
If either train or edward get up close and personal with Misaka, no matter what she is capable of, the battle is practically over at that point since the capabilities of the Edward and Train, especially up close would be extremely dangerous for her.
Both of them together is enough to overwhelm Misaka. Especially considering it can be argued that one of them alone can give her some difficulty.
The hell. Read the freaking rules. Delete your damn post. I would argue against you but this isn't your freaking debate. You watch, we debate. You understand?
Misaka Mikoto with moderate to slightly great difficulty.
Sounds like an oxymoron to me. But anyway, i will prove why that isn't the case as this debate goes on. Please watch and try not to involve yourself in the debate. I'll be sure to tag you for votes.
I have all the scans for the manga version of the fight. Radar Sense and her ability to sense the manipulation of electricity at work allows her to dodge these things at the last second. Also if her reaction speed was light speed that would be a tad bit inconsistent with everything we seen in her fights. Thanks to her Radar Sense i believe this is simply her use the appropriate timing to dodge the attacks. Her Radar Sense has a pretty good range so i wouldn't be surprised if she sensed the lasers being prepped to fire from a distance away. And to add in the scans you presented she basically moved out of the way the second she prepped her lasers. Look closely at your own scans. She was thinking about how she shouldn't be standing. In that exact moment she should be capable of picking up on what she was about to do and dodge before hand. Also look at the gif you posted. You can see Misaka moving before the lasers are fired
That how you interpret the battle.Having the Radar Sense does helps knowing to counter attacks even without looking at them.Even then, she should still be able to react to them after they been fired(which she does).This been the case for most characters with precog,or mind reading,or any predicting abilities,like Morlun is faster than the Spider-Sense or Quicksilver speed blitz Mr.X.Misaka was surprise that Mugino was already up after being KO'd,while Mugino was already behind Misaka and had her Meltdowner ready to fire.Perhaps Misaka did use her Radar Sense last second,but it wasn't like she was aim-dodging them.Mugino already fire her beams and Misaka indeed dodge them.
This scan further prove that Misaka can react the high speed electron lasers.
Mugino and Misaka have the same amount reaction and attack speed so their overall fight as inconsistent(besides from a few moments).Besides they are other Index characters that have light-speed to FTL feats in the series too,so I'm sticking with her reaction speed being at least relativistic+ speed.
Considering how Eve tried to blitz Train but failed to do so you're probably right it doesn't matter. But when has Misaka with her pure reflexes blitzed people?
You know there is a difference between combat speed and reaction speed.Characters can react to speeds that aren't near their actual combat speed.Master Chief or Iron Fist can react within milliseconds to microseconds,but their combat speed aren't as fast as characters like Spider-Man,Morlun,or Midnighter.It not like Misaka will use her fists in any fight,she use her abilities instead of physical combat.
He outsped the explosion. He had the grenade in his face point blank. No surprise his clothes got damaged.
Fair enough.
Train also has these types of grenades:
Misaka can throw them back at them with her magnetism.
Yeah but she has to rely on her Radar Sense heavily along with her reaction speed to dodge attacks. Actually, look at it this way. Who is Hulk more likely to catch consistently? Quicksilver who runs around in predictable straight lines? Or Spiderman who is nimbly dodging all his attacks with agility and precision? Thats basically my comparison of Misaka and Train in that respect. Train will have an easy time dodging since he has trained reflexes and he avoids the attacks launched at him with his own speed, he has speed that surpasses the likes of river who is capable of speed feats like these:
I can understand why you could view it in that case,but both had Hulk have trouble catching them,but Hulk still land hits on them.Misaka is a genius herself and won't let allow a enemy to dance around her.She has ways to deal with them with her arsenal(like iron sand).I acknowledge that Train has hyper-sonic speed,but his speed is still less what Misaka dealt with.Brunhild(equal to Kanzaki who is a lightning timing blitzer as the bare minimum)tried to speed blitz Misaka twice but Misaka to them and also Brunhild was trying to kill Misaka.
An overwhelmingly violent fan that used the massive shockwave created when an object moved at supersonic speeds.
That would end it.
Not only would it crush the girl’s fat and muscles from the outside, but her eardrums, lungs, and trachea would rupture from within.
However…
“Damn you!!”
“!?”
She reacted just before it hit.
A dull noise came from below their feet. The ground below moved. The road at the top of the overpass was made in blocks that included the supports below. The girl controlled one entire block with magnetism to tilt it like a seesaw.
This caused Brunhild’s aim to be off with her claymore strike and the sonic boom flew off into the distance. All the glass in one of the buildings alongside the road was smashed to pieces.
(A broad-use electric type? So did she use some kind of radar? No, this is…!!)
Iron sand had been thinly spread all across the road surface.
Even if Brunhild Eiktobel’s movements exceeded the limits of the girl’s kinetic vision, she could clearly see what path Brunhild had taken thanks to her footprints.
And Misaka Mikoto did not stop there.
She snapped her fingers and shouted, “Be swallowed up!!”
The iron sand rose up in every direction.
You saw that? With his own combat speed he shot two bullets at two different directions at once. He shot one bullet straight and bounced the other bullet on the ground and it scraped him on the cheek. A similar thing will happen with misaka. Except imagine it with several shots. Bullets coming at her all at once in several directions. You could argue she could see it coming and attempt to react accordingly, but good old edward will be there flanking her with alchemy counters and creations.
Lets see, two bullet timers rushing her, one shooting bullets from several angles, the other manipulating the terrain to his liking. Good luck
It a neat tactic,but I see Misaka react and block them with her iron sand that shown to pierce solid concrete on average.Misaka handled Mugino using silicon cards to expand the amount of lasers and the angles at were aim.She could go for a similar tactic with her iron sand,but have a lot more angles to cover.Either if Ed or Train(or both)get caught up in the sand,they need to use their best actions to blow it away or they eaten up.The only two did it were Brunhild and Gunha,but they are powerful mid-tiers.
Yes and Misaka have reacted to electron lasers
Like a iron sand tsunami that move at 2 kilometers within moments and tank fire does nothing to it
The diesel engine let out a roar as if in response. They were only 2 kilometers away from where the surface-to-surface missiles were being fired.
The independent unit seemed to have given up on the bombings, but they had brought out a tank unit that had been hidden behind a hill. Even if they were prepared to be hit a few times, they would be completely blown away if dozens of tanks focused their fire on them.
“By Misaka’s estimations, we will be hit by the blasts 20 times before we can travel 500 meters, says Misa—”
“Then we’ll finish this before that!!”
A black shadow squirmed around Mikoto’s tank.
No.
It was a large amount of iron sand that had been sleeping below the snow. She thoroughly gathered it from approximately 200 meters around her and brought it together using magnetism.
It must have looked like a wall to her enemies.
That wall of despair was like a giant tsunami about to strike the land.
That was the #3 Level 5.
She was not just a cannon.
There were only two people she knew who she could not handle even with skillful application of her power. Those two were the espers who stood at the extremes. One at the extreme of justice and one at the extreme of evil.
“Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!”
As she yelled, the huge mass of iron sand passed by overhead and crashed into the enemy forces ahead. Like an undulating tsunami or like a living snake, that mountain of iron sand swept across while vibrating at high speed. The independent Russian unit was unable to deal with it.
Of course they weren’t.
No matter how many times they shot it, the swirling iron sand did not slow down in the slightest.
Have her iron sand surround your team from all 360 degrees which caught up with Brunhild
She snapped her fingers and shouted, “Be swallowed up!!”
The iron sand rose up in every direction.
It all began vibrating at high speed to create a storm of killer needles and then shot towards Brunhild Eiktobel from all 360 degrees around her.
Or create several hundred iron sand drills at your team at many angles like she did to Gunha
Facing the electric strike Mikoto released from her hand, he used what looked like a fist that was shrouded in a mirage to knock it to the ground. It was really a ridiculous scene.
In contrast, Mikoto used the iron sand to create several hundred drills and run them through with electricity, readying them to pierce Sogiita from all over the place, and shot them out. Manipulating the iron sand at such a speed that there was no time to breathe, she also let the empty cans ionize into plasma to distract the enemy’s eyes before running into him, displaying all sorts of attacks.
He was hopping all around, easily dodging the guy's shots, effortlessly blocking them as well, and even pulled off a trick in order to fool him in a smokescreen. This fight is essentially how Misaka's encounter with train could potentially go. Except worse since Edward's also there.
The guy doesn't have the versatility as Misaka does or any comparable feats unless you show me.Misaka start off with standard electricity attacks which will hit Train,but let say they don't and Misaka could go for iron sand or next sky lightning.Iron sand shallow up any regular bullets and have hundreds of .If Train go for a smoke grenade for the start,Misaka still have her radar sense to know where Train will strike at and could end him with lightning spears or use iron sand drills from behind him(without ending up killing him).
The battle takes place in a factory, all kinds of things could benefit Edward. Although the same applies to Misaka, with the way Edward's powers are designed, good luck trying to find a lot of use for scrap metal in comparison to someone who can shape it into virtually anything he wants.
Edward is good indeed,but Misaka should start taking away Edward's metal arm and leg with magnetism.Then break them into many tiny pieces,this will leave Ed incap for a while until if he plans to make temporally new arm and leg.Until then,Misaka will be handling Train.But if Misaka doesn't do that,if Edward create some stone barriers to protect him and Train.Misaka could use her Railgun to destroy those walls.Either Edward doesn't move and dies from the Railgun or Ed try to evade it but probably get his metal arm destroyed in the progress.If Ed is still in the opening,Misaka hit him with the light speed lightning.
Can you elaborate on what she will be doing during this battle? Especially with Ed and Train ganging up on her the way they will?
I explain above what Misaka could do to your team.Either way,your team can't react to Misaka's lightning honestly.
True. But Train's Railgun is actually several times the speed of sound while Misaka's railgun for some strange reason is consistently being stated to be as fast as Mach 3.(Considering its feats its probably way faster, far far faster) Speaking of which, can Misaka react to a railgun?(If push comes to shove Train may have no choice but to use this.) I recall Accelerator reflecting one back at her and she couldn't do a thing. Train tries to use his railgun which won't be as easily predictable as Misaka's.(We have a brilliant mind like Edward here. Its very likely Misaka won't use the Railgun right away, but after seeing everything she can do seeing her pull out a coin spark up then flipping it into the air won't give him any good signs.)
She won't use Railgun at the beginning of a battle which will lead to the ability to being potentially predicted when she pulls out her coins, based off the location the sky seems pretty clear to me so it will take her some seconds to prep some sky lightning. Iron Sand can be avoided and countered. And any attempt to mess with Edward's automail will be stopped by train.(By the way i am not sure if you are going to bring this up but Train's gun is made of special material so don't think Misaka can just control it.)
Kamachi like stating it's mach 3,but it be like when at only 30% of power as Gunha stated and in the Index manga(non-canon,but still written by the same author)it stated it could move at super light speed.Yeah,she won't start with it yet,but if ever the fight is over long and Ed build over laying walls plus matching Train's Railgun.Iron sand been overpowered by immense power by characters like Gunha,the only thing could overpower it is Train's Railgun.Misaka can take the gun away from Train via magnetism too if that special material is still metal based or control the bullets inside it unless they aren't regular metal bullets neither.
@homicidalmaniac:Sorry i took so long. I made a huge post then comicvine magically made it disappear, i got pissed and didn't feel like doing anything.
That how you interpret the battle.Having the Radar Sense does helps knowing to counter attacks even without looking at them.Even then, she should still be able to react to them after they been fired(which she does).This been the case for most characters with precog,or mind reading,or any predicting abilities,like Morlun is faster than the Spider-Sense or Quicksilver speed blitz Mr.X.Misaka was surprise that Mugino was already up after being KO'd,while Mugino was already behind Misaka and had her Meltdowner ready to fire.Perhaps Misaka did use her Radar Sense last second,but it wasn't like she was aim-dodging them.Mugino already fire her beams and Misaka indeed dodge them.
Look at this way, say i have the Radar Sense for a second. Alright? Scenario: A guy is behind me and he has a gun, but he hasn't used it yet. I sense him pull the gun out his pocket and get ready to aim, i move my body out of his gun's sight and he fires. Aim dodging. With an ability like Misaka's this is entirely possible.
Mugino and Misaka have the same amount reaction and attack speed so their overall fight as inconsistent(besides from a few moments).Besides they are other Index characters that have light-speed to FTL feats in the series too,so I'm sticking with her reaction speed being at least relativistic+ speed.
Sorry but no. Look at the second panel really closely then look again at the third panel. Where do you think i am going with this?
You know there is a difference between combat speed and reaction speed.Characters can react to speeds that aren't near their actual combat speed.Master Chief or Iron Fist can react within milliseconds to microseconds,but their combat speed aren't as fast as characters like Spider-Man,Morlun,or Midnighter.It not like Misaka will use her fists in any fight,she use her abilities instead of physical combat.
Of course, but that's dangerous for her in this matchup. Her movements would be more predictable since they aren't her own,(so to speak) she relies on magnetism to increase her mobility and speed. Edward actually has speed, he has reacted to bullets and he is faster than scar by the end of the series. Train is a low end bullet timer. And has insane agility.
Misaka can throw them back at them with her magnetism.
The instant Misaka stops it with her magnetism Train shoots a bullet into it and blam! That paste will be all over her.
I can understand why you could view it in that case,but both had Hulk have trouble catching them,but Hulk still land hits on them.Misaka is a genius herself and won't let allow a enemy to dance around her.She has ways to deal with them with her arsenal(like iron sand).I acknowledge that Train has hyper-sonic speed,but his speed is still less what Misaka dealt with.Brunhild(equal to Kanzaki who is a lightning timing blitzer as the bare minimum)tried to speed blitz Misaka twice but Misaka to them and also Brunhild was trying to kill Misaka.
Here's the major difference between Brunhild and Train. Brunhild relies more on her pure strength and power. Train focuses on precision, accuracy and speed and agility. Analyze the fight again. Brunhild actually nearly went past Misaka's kinetic vision, and just barely caught her with the ironsand thanks to Brunhild's footsteps. Her movements based off the quote seemed more predictable. Train is going to be hopping around, swiftly dodging attacks, jumping off walls, launching attacks from different directions. He's going to be a lot more difficult to deal with. Especially with someone else manipulating the environment in different ways.
https://youtu.be/G5SdP5NiPD0?t=1105
18:25-18:52 Ed can easily make the ground below her collapse or attack her from underground. Its going to be hard to react to Edward coming from underground and train spamming bullets at the same time. If she reacts to one, its going to be hard to react to the other.
https://youtu.be/1b40Y1AYcHE?t=1046
Ed managed to warp an entire hallway filled with traps.
17:20-19:41
Ed makes a fake decoy of Alphonse in order to launch a sneak attack.
https://youtu.be/nhxP1y618Xo?t=757
12:35-13:41
And look at the range of his alchemy. Edward was in a concealed room that had a broken ceiling. The debris was on the floor, a good touch onto the floor and the debris pieced back together and the ceiling was fixed. This means that Edward's alcemy isn't all that predictable.
https://youtu.be/L1585RmDaBw?t=1050
17:30-17:46
To add you mentioned Edward's alchemical creations not being able to hold up to Misaka's lightning blasts. I beg to differ.
https://youtu.be/G49-8FUT_wA?t=987
16:27-16:45
One simple wall created by Ed holds up against several bazooka blasts.
He can turn bedsheets or cloth into rope
https://youtu.be/gAbPK1oS1G8?t=459
7:39-7:49
It a neat tactic,but I see Misaka react and block them with her iron sand that shown to pierce solid concrete on average.Misaka handled Mugino using silicon cards to expand the amount of lasers and the angles at were aim.She could go for a similar tactic with her iron sand,but have a lot more angles to cover.Either if Ed or Train(or both)get caught up in the sand,they need to use their best actions to blow it away or they eaten up.The only two did it were Brunhild and Gunha,but they are powerful mid-tiers.
What's stopping Ed from using alchemy to negate the iron sand or manipulate it like i suggested? And pushing it back with alchemic walls would work fine.
Plus if you are talking about Gunha he wasn't really trying.
And also, this wasn’t really an intense battle between Level 5s.
One side was attacking, and one side was defending. It was just a one-sided battle.
The guy doesn't have the versatility as Misaka does or any comparable feats unless you show me.Misaka start off with standard electricity attacks which will hit Train,but let say they don't and Misaka could go for iron sand or next sky lightning.Iron sand shallow up any regular bullets and have hundreds of .If Train go for a smoke grenade for the start,Misaka still have her radar sense to know where Train will strike at and could end him with lightning spears or use iron sand drills from behind him(without ending up killing him).
He had the speed, the markmanship and accuracy and precision. There isn't really much that Misaka has that implies that she could counter both Ed and Train in a smokescreen. Heck Train alone. Bullets coming from multiple angles, while train is rushing her with his own speed. She has too much to react to. She has to deal with the ricocheting bullets, the terrain changing around her, and Train rushing at her or in another case both Train and Edward rushing her.
Edward is good indeed,but Misaka should start taking away Edward's metal arm and leg with magnetism.Then break them into many tiny pieces,this will leave Ed incap for a while until if he plans to make temporally new arm and leg.Until then,Misaka will be handling Train.But if Misaka doesn't do that,if Edward create some stone barriers to protect him and Train.Misaka could use her Railgun to destroy those walls.Either Edward doesn't move and dies from the Railgun or Ed try to evade it but probably get his metal arm destroyed in the progress.If Ed is still in the opening,Misaka hit him with the light speed lightning.
What a convenient argument. Assuming that Edward will lose his arm no matter what he does. Also, you seriously underestimate the scale of what edward can do.
https://youtu.be/E2yt2ta8Zic?t=1083
Watch from 18:03 all the way to 19:15(ignore the whole red water thing that isn't important, what is important is how big the wall Edward made is.)
He made a wall big enough to surround the small mountain and the house. If he can make something that big and strong, i can see him temporarily trapping misaka to distract her. Or basically making a spike coffin, of course Misaka could break out of it if she uses enough power or her iron sand but she would be wasting a lot of energy that she could be using to apply to her speed and overall mobility.
Gallery
I explain above what Misaka could do to your team.Either way,your team can't react to Misaka's lightning honestly.
Pretty sure they can. Its called aim dodging. Its pretty clear when she is going to shoot a lightning blast. She would have to do trick shots in order to actually hit her target with her lightning.
Kamachi like stating it's mach 3,but it be like when at only 30% of power as Gunha stated and in the Index manga(non-canon,but still written by the same author)it stated it could move at super light speed.Yeah,she won't start with it yet,but if ever the fight is over long and Ed build over laying walls plus matching Train's Railgun.Iron sand been overpowered by immense power by characters like Gunha,the only thing could overpower it is Train's Railgun.Misaka can take the gun away from Train via magnetism too if that special material is still metal based or control the bullets inside it unless they aren't regular metal bullets neither.
Iron sand can't only be dispersed by strong characters. It can be dispersed rather simply. Unless Misaka makes it far more precise, which in that case would make it easier to avoid for the likes of Edward Elric and Train Heartnet.
Say if Edward makes a bunch of huge stone pillars, no matter how sharp it is, i doubt it can contain that space coming the way it would. The iron sand would cut into the pillars but the iron sand will be pushed back so the purpose would be fulfilled.
What is the most densest and most resistant material she has ever magnetized?
@deathhero61:Extremely late post,I'm really sorry about that.I hope you still want to continue this.Okay let get started here and when will be voting
The Counters
Look at this way, say i have the Radar Sense for a second. Alright? Scenario: A guy is behind me and he has a gun, but he hasn't used it yet. I sense him pull the gun out his pocket and get ready to aim, i move my body out of his gun's sight and he fires. Aim dodging. With an ability like Misaka's this is entirely possible.
Sorry but no. Look at the second panel really closely then look again at the third panel. Where do you think i am going with this?
It a agree to disagree stand for us,I see your stand,but I simply don't see it like that for myself.Misaka does react to the attacks after were fired.The scan shown Misaka arms were spread apart and Mugino already fired her Meltdowner at Mugino and Misaka put her arms in front of her right before the beams hit her.Misaka and Mugino(they're roughly overall equal)have the same amount of speed,so them tagging each other wouldn't be a inconsistently.
Of course, but that's dangerous for her in this matchup. Her movements would be more predictable since they aren't her own,(so to speak) she relies on magnetism to increase her mobility and speed. Edward actually has speed, he has reacted to bullets and he is faster than scar by the end of the series. Train is a low end bullet timer. And has insane agility
None of your guys still can't react to Misaka's lightning(which move at the speed of light)and being bullet timers as bare minimum doesn't help them react to her lightning.What does make Misaka's movements more predictable than your team,Misaka causally create lightning spears(again,your team can't react to) from her bangs or have iron sand suddenly surrounding your team is too predictable?If Misaka can if she wants,she could input her electricity inside your team's nerves and paralyze them like she tried on Nayuta Kihara(a 70% cyborg).Edward would still fall for this since hr's
Mikoto let out an electrical surge from her entire body, trying to prevent the opponent from touching her. But Nayuta didn’t mind as she used her hand to spear into the electric wall.
The bluish-white sparks ran down Nayuta’s body, and the girl let out a “slightly” bitter look.
But that wasn’t enough to slow her momentum, as Nayuta’s right hand closed in on Mikoto.
Seeing that the hand was about to reach her neck, Mikoto twisted her body and tried to use the electrical flow to knock the opponent off.
She let electricity flow into the opponent’s nerves, using the involuntary reflexes to stop Nayuta. This was an ability that used a large amount of calculations. However, the girl’s hand didn’t slow down for some reason, and it was even closing in on Mikoto in a random manner.
The instant Misaka stops it with her magnetism Train shoots a bullet into it and blam! That paste will be all over her.
Which move at a lesser speed than she's used to and she would able to react to it and bullets still fall into magnetism
Here's the major difference between Brunhild and Train. Brunhild relies more on her pure strength and power. Train focuses on precision, accuracy and speed and agility. Analyze the fight again. Brunhild actually nearly went past Misaka's kinetic vision, and just barely caught her with the ironsand thanks to Brunhild's footsteps. Her movements based off the quote seemed more predictable. Train is going to be hopping around, swiftly dodging attacks, jumping off walls, launching attacks from different directions. He's going to be a lot more difficult to deal with. Especially with someone else manipulating the environment in different ways.
Brunhild is still significantly faster than Edward and Train speed feats combine,she's equal to Kanzaki Kaori and Saints does have FTL combat speed.Doesn't change Misaka still manage to avoid Brunhild's attacks(Brunhild was trying to kill Misaka)and Train's movements are much easily for Misaka to catch than Brunhild's.
18:25-18:52 Ed can easily make the ground below her collapse or attack her from underground. Its going to be hard to react to Edward coming from underground and train spamming bullets at the same time. If she reacts to one, its going to be hard to react to the other.
If Edward is underground(as you shown in the video),then Misaka stomps Train on the surface faster.Misaka could summon iron sand spread inside the ground until get to Edward(either resurface or get hit by the iron sand in the ground).
Ed makes a fake decoy of Alphonse in order to launch a sneak attack
While doing it in a dark room during night and the tactic wouldn't work in the day light
And look at the range of his alchemy. Edward was in a concealed room that had a broken ceiling. The debris was on the floor, a good touch onto the floor and the debris pieced back together and the ceiling was fixed. This means that Edward's alcemy isn't all that predictable.
This feat was rather slow and doesn't seem that impressive
One simple wall created by Ed holds up against several bazooka blasts.
While against really outdated weaponry compared to Academy City's weaponry which Misaka have no problems taking down
What's stopping Ed from using alchemy to negate the iron sand or manipulate it like i suggested? And pushing it back with alchemic walls would work fine.
Plus if you are talking about Gunha he wasn't really trying.
After if he's knock out by a lightning spear?Anyway,Edward manipulating the iron sand still won't Misaka bringing more.Misaka will manipulate the iron sand in the air and .Misaka could still use the sand move around the walls too.Gunha was taking the fight serious as much as Misaka was.
“Ku, not bad. But you should be at your limit and ready to start fighting back, right?”
“That was a really gutsy attack. But you’re still lacking!”
Both of them were panting, and right now, the two Level 5s were still showing fearless smiles.
He had the speed, the markmanship and accuracy and precision. There isn't really much that Misaka has that implies that she could counter both Ed and Train in a smokescreen. Heck Train alone. Bullets coming from multiple angles, while train is rushing her with his own speed. She has too much to react to. She has to deal with the ricocheting bullets, the terrain changing around her, and Train rushing at her or in another case both Train and Edward rushing her.
Train's speed still doesn't compare to Gunha's,let alone Brunhild's speed.The angles bullets aren't like explosive traps that Frenda lay everywhere for a exhausted Misaka Mikoto dodged.They have no real counters reacting to her lightning,sky lightning,nerves paralyzing,and others.
What a convenient argument. Assuming that Edward will lose his arm no matter what he does. Also, you seriously underestimate the scale of what edward can do.
He made a wall big enough to surround the small mountain and the house. If he can make something that big and strong, i can see him temporarily trapping misaka to distract her. Or basically making a spike coffin, of course Misaka could break out of it if she uses enough power or her iron sand but she would be wasting a lot of energy that she could be using to apply to her speed and overall mobility
The arm statement was a worst case for Edward,but regardless we move on.If Edward summon those walls,she would rather use her Railgun or sky lightning than iron sand.Misaka's Railgun would easily destroy the walls.You know the context of that had Misaka fight ITEM as she went a week without much sleep and food.Misaka on average can fight for hours straight and her fight with ITEM would had lasted a lot longer if she had full rest.
Kamijou stopped so suddenly that it looked like his feet had been staked to the ground. A sudden question entered his mind.
Imagine Breaker could negate any kind of supernatural power in one blow. Not even the Level 5 Biri Biri girl’s Railgun, which could destroy a nuclear shelter in one strike, was an exception to that.
Pretty sure they can. Its called aim dodging. Its pretty clear when she is going to shoot a lightning blast. She would have to do trick shots in order to actually hit her target with her lightning.
No she doesn't.Misaka's lightning can suddenly come out of her body and doesn't really need much movements to shoot her lightning.Like her first appearance used of her powers,where she suddenly shot out a lightning spear at Touma.Or AIM Burst tried to attack her with it's arms and Misaka fry them with lightning without moving her stand.
Iron sand can't only be dispersed by strong characters. It can be dispersed rather simply. Unless Misaka makes it far more precise, which in that case would make it easier to avoid for the likes of Edward Elric and Train Heartnet.
Say if Edward makes a bunch of huge stone pillars, no matter how sharp it is, i doubt it can contain that space coming the way it would. The iron sand would cut into the pillars but the iron sand will be pushed back so the purpose would be fulfilled.
What is the most densest and most resistant material she has ever magnetized?
Misaka can also use the iron sand emit electricity and while the iron sand is also in the air.The iron sand cloaked in her electricity which could shoot out would add more damages and could being in the numbers of the hundreds isn't easy for your team to avoid.
I don't exactly remember,but I say at least the same material that made out of the Power Suits
It a agree to disagree stand for us,I see your stand,but I simply don't see it like that for myself.Misaka does react to the attacks after were fired.The scan shown Misaka arms were spread apart and Mugino already fired her Meltdowner at Mugino and Misaka put her arms in front of her right before the beams hit her.
Which would imply that even her combat speed is light speed which would be a outlier considering she barely reacted to Brunhild's Mach speeds. Not only that look at the scan you presented. Its highly possible that in the half second that Mugino formed her energy(when they took the shape of balls before they fired off) Misaka swiftly put her hands in place. And if that was the case it would have been child's play to react to her attacks many other times during the fight with other even having to dodge.
None of your guys still can't react to Misaka's lightning(which move at the speed of light)and being bullet timers as bare minimum doesn't help them react to her lightning.What does make Misaka's movements more predictable than your team,Misaka causally create lightning spears(again,your team can't react to) from her bangs or have iron sand suddenly surrounding your team is too predictable?If Misaka can if she wants,she could input her electricity inside your team's nerves and paralyze them like she tried on Nayuta Kihara(a 70% cyborg).Edward would still fall for this since hr's
I know personal reality makes it easily possible for Misaka's lightning to be light speed but on several occasions characters have noted her blasts as regular lightning. I recall accelerator wondering how Touma reacted to lightning considering its speed. Which implies when he went up against the misakas along with the real one that he saw misaka's lightning as regular lightning.
Also considering how other espers have reacted to her lightning it makes me wonder if its truly light speed. Kuroko has easily dodged Misaka's lightning blasts before. I don't recall her being a lightning timer either.
And to further drive my point home about her lightning being predictable look at her second fight with touma, when she gathered her lightning spear she grabbed the lightning then threw it in the form of a spear.
The Iron Sand at best is supersonic. Edward and Train have been hitting that speed pretty easily in their respective verses.
Can you elaborate on that last strategy she can attempt?
Which move at a lesser speed than she's used to and she would able to react to it and bullets still fall into magnetism
That's not something she would easily see coming. A grenade being tossed at her only for a bullet to come right after and shoot it? This can be done with explosive or glue grenades. Its a hard flanking strategy to counter. Plus with that going on Edward could easily attack at the same time. She could easily dodge attacks from either of them respectively but with all the different type of tactics they can both pull it would be hard to react to them both at once.
Brunhild is still significantly faster than Edward and Train speed feats combine,she's equal to Kanzaki Kaori and Saints does have FTL combat speed.Doesn't change Misaka still manage to avoid Brunhild's attacks(Brunhild was trying to kill Misaka)and Train's movements are much easily for Misaka to catch than Brunhild's.
There is nothing that suggests that Brunhild was going anywhere near the speed of light in their encounter. It was even stated directly in their fight that Brunhild can move faster than sound. Which implies that she was moving at supersonic to hypersonic speeds during their fight not light speed. Otherwise they would have outright stated that she was moving around at light speed. Plus that would imply that her ironsand and the movement of the rubble that Misaka used to stop Brunhild was light speed as well. Which would be straight up ridiculous. Misaka just barely caught her by getting a glimpse of her footprints in the ironsand and utilizing her Radar Sense.
If Edward is underground(as you shown in the video),then Misaka stomps Train on the surface faster.Misaka could summon iron sand spread inside the ground until get to Edward(either resurface or get hit by the iron sand in the ground).
How exactly? Train can effectively dodge Misaka's attacks and keep her at bay with a storm of bullets and grenades. Even if you were right that it would be easier for Misaka, Edward would still be busying getting ready to attack her before she could finish off Train. Plus If misaka decided to go after him underground that just means more ammo for Edward to use via alchemy. He could counter it by using the very same iron sand to launch back at Misaka from underground.
While doing it in a dark room during night and the tactic wouldn't work in the day light
It would catch her off guard for the slightest second, half a second, maybe even less, that's all anyone from my pair need to launch another attack that may possibly tag Misaka.
This feat was rather slow and doesn't seem that impressive
Edward's mental state wasn't at its best at the time plus he has done things similar and even more impressive at a faster rate. Remember Edward changing an entire hallway filled with traps?
While against really outdated weaponry compared to Academy City's weaponry which Misaka have no problems taking down
Still doesn't change how many bazooka blasts the wall was taking. This showing proves that Edward can at least hold out against most of what misaka can do just by creating cover unless she is using a railgun or precise iron sand.
After if he's knock out by a lightning spear?Anyway,Edward manipulating the iron sand still won't Misaka bringing more.Misaka will manipulate the iron sand in the air and .Misaka could still use the sand move around the walls too.Gunha was taking the fight serious as much as Misaka was.
Oh you mean her lightning spear which she charges then grabs then throws? Nate. That's not hitting Edward. True Misaka can make more but if Edward makes a weapon out of Misaka's iron sand wouldn't it be easy to counter her sand? Like for example combining her iron sand with Edward's carbon automail that not even pride could cut through?
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Train's speed still doesn't compare to Gunha's,let alone Brunhild's speed.The angles bullets aren't like explosive traps that Frenda lay everywhere for a exhausted Misaka Mikoto dodged.They have no real counters reacting to her lightning,sky lightning,nerves paralyzing,and others.
Misaka barely dodged those explosive traps so i have no idea what you are talking about. Not only that if he angles bullets from multiple directions even Misaka would be distracted. Let me show you how Train's friend Saya utilized this style
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Lets get to the core of Train's feats. Its time to talk about Creed.
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Creed avoided a complete blitz(an attack of pure speed to the point where it would disintegrate a target) from Sephira.(BTW during their fight Sephira had trouble keeping up her self.)
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Train was doing fine.
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Train also casually dealt with Creed's invisible blade more efficiently than he did before
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Creed's second level of his blade bounced around and had a lot of flexibility.
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But even with this new blade he still couldn't react to Train's reflect shot
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Train managed to avoid a blitz from yet another level of Creed. He showed a huge increase in speed and power. Train barely perceived his movements at first but still managed to avoid his attacks.
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Survives another blitz from Creed
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Even after taking the hit Train still managed to block and react to his attacks.
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Train managed to restrict him briefly in order to pull himself towards him and land a swift blow. Then thanks to the wire managed to land another blow, a blow powerful enough to shake the roof.
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And he takes even more hits.(sorry its backwards) And even after taking one more monstrous hit he manages to counter a hit powerful enough to destroy a part of a castle tower.
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With his final railgun Train used a burst bullet in order to take down creed's ultimate sword. Why is this impressive? the sword's power shook the entire castle, and in its weakest form in the anime it has easily cut through tanks and helicopters like butter. Multiply said power along with the implied power of the sword and you have a good idea on how powerful Train's burst railgun is in terms of overall piercing and destructive potential. This is something Misaka absolutely wouldn't see coming.
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There are many ways for Edward to surprise Misaka as well. Although misaka could cling to walls, she would briefly be caught off guard from falling down a big hole
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https://youtu.be/ECzUVZNKp_U?t=285
4:46-5:56 Him and his brother fight each other with a bunch of alchemic creations
https://youtu.be/3g_hiaEuZZc?t=319
5:19-5:23 Transmute water into ice easily.
To sum up
Misaka's lightning isn't impossible to avoid.
Iron sand can be dodged and potentially countered and used against her.
Train's pure agility and precision will either leave an opening for Edward or Edward's crazy alchemical attacks will leave an opening for train to hit her with a bullet.
With someone like Edward on the team and with Train's experience the Railgun isn't something they couldn't see coming. Its entirely possible for them to see it coming.
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