CAV: Goku vs Gladiator (GOKU WINS)

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Etheral_Dreams

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#1  Edited By Etheral_Dreams

In this match, I (@etheral_dreams) will be repping Goku, and @petey_is_spidey will be representing Gladiator.

I. The Warriors:

Gladiator, represented by Petey_Is_Spidey
Gladiator, represented by Petey_Is_Spidey
Goku, represented by Etheral_Dreams
Goku, represented by Etheral_Dreams

II. Rules/Setting:

  • Both combatants are bloodlusted.
  • It is a random encounter; no prep.
  • Standard equipment, if any.
  • Win by death/KO.
  • No BFR.
  • Takes place on an abandoned, indestructible planet.
  • Gladiator is at 100% full confidence and has all his feats. Likewise, Goku is at full power, and has access to all his feats through the franchise except for those in Dragonball Xenoverse.

III. How To Be A Courteous Audience:

  • Don't comment unless you're voting or asking to be tagged for votes (T4V) or asking or giving feedback.
  • Leave your biases at the door.
  • Give feedback.
  • Be kind to other voters and the debaters. Any obnoxiousness and rudeness will not be tolerated, and may result in a flag.
  • If you need to ask us a question, PM us.

IV. Voting:

  • Give a detailed explanation why you're voting. Can be a sentence or a paragraph, just not something like, "I like X character. Y person was repping said character. Z character sucks. Y person wins."
  • Once again, leave biases at the door.
  • Don't flame.

V. Hype Music:

Now, kick back and enjoy.

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Etheral_Dreams

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Petey_is_Spidey

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stormshadow_x

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T4V I suppose

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mysticmedivh

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This'll be interesting. T4V please.

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Etheral_Dreams

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PreCrisisBardock

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Tag.

Side note: what noteworthy feats did Goku have in Xenoverse?

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Petey_is_Spidey

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#8  Edited By Petey_is_Spidey

Is goku starting off at his base form?

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PreCrisisBardock

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micah007123

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T4V

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MasterKungFu

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tag

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Etheral_Dreams

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#13  Edited By Etheral_Dreams
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HeirToTheKingdom

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TAG

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Bullet_to_the_Head

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Etheral_Dreams

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KR0NUS11

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T4V

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DarthVxder

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#18  Edited By DarthVxder

@bullet_to_the_head: Theres a rumor around about a magazine or interview but noone has a source so no its not cannon. Probably some made up bs but its not 100% that its fake either since like I said people keep quoting it but theres no source

Also T4V please.

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Etheral_Dreams

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Etheral_Dreams

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midnightdragon18

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Make us proud son(eternal)

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Etheral_Dreams

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#22  Edited By Etheral_Dreams

@midnightdragon18 said:Make us proud son(eternal)

Thanks, I'll try. :)

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Petey_is_Spidey

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#23  Edited By Petey_is_Spidey
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RandomSid82

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Tag for votes? This one is going to be hard cause I love both characters.

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Etheral_Dreams

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@randomsid: Same. It's awkward because in my other current CaV, I'm the one prepping Gladiator. @petey_is_spidey: Thanks. Expect it an hour or 2.

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Gracetrack

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This should be good. :)

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kfabz-23

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Tag!

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#28  Edited By Etheral_Dreams

Alright, let's get this thing on a roll.

This is just an opener, so I'll just share some general information, and present some of Goku's weaker feats, saving the big stuff for later on.

Biography:

Goku (孫 悟空, Son Gokū), born Kakarot (カカロット, Kakarotto), is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries created by Akira Toriyama. He is the adoptive grandson of Grandpa Gohan, the son of Bardock and Gine, the husband of Chi-Chi, the father of Gohan and Goten, the grandfather of Pan, and later the great-great-grandfather of Goku Jr. Cheerful, courageous and also a bit naive, Goku is a Saiyan originally sent to Earth as an infant with the mission to destroy it. However, an accident alters his memory, causing him to grow up pure-hearted and later become Earth's greatest defender, as well as the informal leader of the Z Fighters.[13] Throughout his life, he trains hard and strives to be the greatest warrior possible, while at the same time using his amazing strength and skills to uphold peace.[18]

Powers and Abilities:

Like most DBZ characters, all of Goku's powers and abilities stem from ki, although his Saiyan physiology already naturally provides him with superhuman stats. However, training and mastering ki manipulation has boosted him to quite literal godlike levels.

List of his abilities:

  • Super Strength
  • Super Speed
  • Super Durability
  • Accelerated healing, and can use ki to heal others
  • Super Senses (gives him a low degree of cosmic awareness)
  • Flight
  • Teleportation with seemingly unlimited range
  • Telepathy with universal range
  • Telekinesis
  • Limited light generation through solar flare
  • Transformation
  • Extremely powerful energy blasts at least capable of wiping out entire solar systems

On the topic of FTL Goku...

So, to save me time, I'm just going to address this in my opener. Don't worry, I'll get around to Goku's other feats, but because this particular subject is often a point of a lot debate, I might as well just make this clear from the get-go:

Goku is MFTL. Why? Check below.

Knowing my opponent is Gladiator, I think it's best to go straight to the FTL feats:

Kid Goku manages to react to a Solar Flare, run 30 or so feet away into the stands and steal Roshi's sunglasses all before the light could hit Goku's eyes. Keep in mind Goku was standing a foot or so away, so it can safely be assumed that it would take the Solar Flare but a nanosecond to hit Goku, and yet he could perform several actions before that nanosecond passed.

That feat alone is comparable to Gladiator's best combat speed/perception feats:

The first scan shows Gladiator fighting Hyperion in space, and they are shown to be able to attack and counterattack in nanoseconds. Gladiator in the second scan counts 10,000,000,000 micro-Sentinels in Jean Grey's body in a second. Impressive, but that would only require the brain to function and process information within a fraction of a nano-second, yet Kid Goku could do that, let alone composite adult Goku.

Another FTL speed feat from Kid Goku: intercepting the Dragonballs.

The Dragonballs are confirmed to scatter FTL based off of the fact that the Namekian Dragonballs moved from Namek to Earth (Namek is thousands of light years from Earth based of of the fact that Kami's ship could reach Jupiter - which is on average 476.5 AU from Earth - in a second, yet it took over a month to get to Namek) in a matter of minutes.

Now before you try to say that the Namekian Dragonballs are different than Earth, there's no indication that those small differences apply to speed, and all major differences were about how they grant wishes. Furthermore, all Dragonballs were crafted by the same group of Namekians - the Dragon Clan - of which Kami and Dende, both of which have created sets of DBs for Earth, are members of.

It is later shown in Dragonball GT that Earth's Dragonballs are indeed FTL when they scattered across the Milky Way galaxy in a matter of seconds. With this, I can confidently say that Goku's catching of a Dragonball at such close range is FTL.

Other FTL feats from early Dragonball include this one: Nappa, whose less than fodder reacts and smacks away a Masenko (a powerful ki beam technique developed by Piccolo) from an enraged Gohan.

Now this is significant because in the anime and manga, Masenko beams are represented as almost always lightspeed or FTL, based off of Piccolo using a variation of a Masenko to instantly blow up the moon, Gohan using it to blow up the Makyo Star (a magical planet in the North Galaxy from the Garlic Jr. Saga), Piccolo using it to tag Final Form Frieza, who is FTL in his own right (see below), ect.

Nappa was able to perceive the motion of the ki blast, and then effortless smack it away. Nappa wasn't even considered fast by Vegeta, who Goku fought on even terms with.

Here, King Kai states that Frieza and Namek Saga Goku are moving to fast for him to follow even with his cosmic vision, which lets him track multiple MFTL objects (e.g. space pods, gods crossing the universe, ect.) even as they do sharp turns and rapidly accelerate and decelerate.

Read left to right

Here, base Goku was able react to a ki blast from Beerus which crossed the latter's home nebula (keep in mind small nebulae are dozens of light years across) and explode at it's edge in a blast so large it dwarfed the stars and planets within the nebula.

Scans are from the Revival of F promotional manga

Goku's energy attacks are often FTL as well.

Here he blasts Cooler into the Sun in a manner of seconds with an attack that can be assumed to be a Kamehameha, but never was confirmed as such.

Blasts Broly through the Sun, though with his sons.

Blasts Baby at FTL speeds...

These videos and scans also pretty much confirm the idea that the more power a ki blast has, the faster it moves. This pretty much confirms what we could already scale up from Frieza and Goku's fight: the vast majority of the fights Goku has been in are MFTL.

@petey_is_spidey That should cover all the basics.

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Petey_is_Spidey

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@etheral_dreams:

Gladiator

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #107 1977

Kallark is a member of the Strontian race, and was born under Shi'ra rule. All Strontians are born with the capacity for great strength and various superpowers, but can only use them when they are completely devoted to a purpose. Fearing a Strontian rebellion, the Shi'ar emperor ordered Kallark, among other Strontians, to kill the Strontian elders. Only Kallark was devoted enough to carry out the order, and the others were killed when their wavering commitment rendered them weak. As a reward for his actions, Kallark was named the Praetor (leader) of the Shi'ar ImperialGuard.

Powers

  • Superhuman strength that ranks in the class 100 (not to be taken literally, due to the vast upgrade Marvel characters have gotten over the years), which puts him on par with Hulk and Thor; in fact, at full confidence he has shown to over power Thor. He has also been shown to rip apart entire lack holes.
No Caption Provided

  • Due to his strength and speed, he has the striking power to shatter whole planets effortlessly.
  • Superhuman speed. This is not only trevel speed (in which case he is mftl), but also combat and reacyion speed. As shown above, gladiator has shown that he can react, and engage in combat with an individual with in a foot of himself. He has also shown his great speed in other instances, such as bull rushing Thor before. He has also been shown to fly 100 times the speed of light. With speed feats such as these, I think it's safe to say that Goku's won't be much a problem, as Gladiator is just as fast, if not faster.

  • Gladiator has heat vision, which has been shown to be hotter than that of a star.
No Caption Provided
  • Durability and invulnerability. This durability allows him to fly through the center of stars virtually unharmed.
  • High telepathic resistance

Weaknesses

Gladiator is weak to high doses of specific radiation, as shown in his battle vs Hulk. Also, his power level is greatly dependent on his confidence (however, that won't matter since his confidence is at 100%)

With these few feats, mainly the speed ones, I do not believe that Goku's speed will be much a problem. I think they are pretty on par when it comes to speed; the difference lies in that Gladiator is superior physically (strength, striking power, has slightly higher durability), while Goku has a larger variety of ranged attacks (besides Gladiator's heat vision, which has proven to be very effective and powerful).

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@etheral_dreams:

Gladiator

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #107 1977

Kallark is a member of the Strontian race, and was born under Shi'ra rule. All Strontians are born with the capacity for great strength and various superpowers, but can only use them when they are completely devoted to a purpose. Fearing a Strontian rebellion, the Shi'ar emperor ordered Kallark, among other Strontians, to kill the Strontian elders. Only Kallark was devoted enough to carry out the order, and the others were killed when their wavering commitment rendered them weak. As a reward for his actions, Kallark was named the Praetor (leader) of the Shi'ar ImperialGuard.

Powers

  • Superhuman strength that ranks in the class 100 (not to be taken literally, due to the vast upgrade Marvel characters have gotten over the years), which puts him on par with Hulk and Thor; in fact, at full confidence he has shown to over power Thor. He has also been shown to rip apart entire lack holes.
No Caption Provided
  • Due to his strength and speed, he has the striking power to shatter whole planets effortlessly.
  • Superhuman speed. This is not only trevel speed (in which case he is mftl), but also combat and reacyion speed. As shown above, gladiator has shown that he can react, and engage in combat with an individual with in a foot of himself. He has also shown his great speed in other instances, such as bull rushing Thor before. He has also been shown to fly 100 times the speed of light. With speed feats such as these, I think it's safe to say that Goku's won't be much a problem, as Gladiator is just as fast, if not faster.
  • Gladiator has heat vision, which has been shown to be hotter than that of a star.
No Caption Provided
  • Durability and invulnerability. This durability allows him to fly through the center of stars virtually unharmed.
  • High telepathic resistance

Weaknesses

Gladiator is weak to high doses of specific radiation, as shown in his battle vs Hulk. Also, his power level is greatly dependent on his confidence (however, that won't matter since his confidence is at 100%)

With these few feats, mainly the speed ones, I do not believe that Goku's speed will be much a problem. I think they are pretty on par when it comes to speed; the difference lies in that Gladiator is superior physically (strength, striking power, has slightly higher durability), while Goku has a larger variety of ranged attacks (besides Gladiator's heat vision, which has proven to be very effective and powerful).

Ok, so my first post somehow got deleted (wtf comicvine? -___-) so I'm going to have to remake this.

First and foremost, that's Masterson Thor (Thunderstrike) that Kallark is fighting, not the regular version. Thunderstrike is much weaker than regular Thor, and he still beat Gladiator in that fight, if you would show the full scans. Gladiator engaging in combat with an individual within a foot of himself is not proof of FTL speeds, let alone when the individual is a version of Thor, none of which have particularly fast combat speed, not even the more powerful one (regular 616 Thor) who can't keep up with the likes of Wolverine.

The nanosecond feats are Gladiator's only potentially FTL combat speed feats, which is only Kid Goku level. Prove me wrong if you can. Even if Glads tries to bullrush Goku at 100x light speed, he'll casually dodge.

The black hole is a statement from his son, which likely refers to smaller types of black holes, seeing as he couldn't do anything about the black hole he and his allies encountered during Infinity.

His heat vision being hotter than a star is cool , but that's not enough to kill Goku.

- Bojack, who is much weaker than him was trapped in the center of a star for thousands of years.

Loading Video...

- Cooler was confirmed to destroy stars in the guidebooks, and from what said in Cooler's Revenge, he was capable of destroying the sun and surviving it's explosion, which would release heat far hotter than what's normally in a star's core.

- In GT, Goku could fight with Nuova Shenron whose heat armor elevates his body to temperatures hotter than the sun. He had trouble at first, but easily adapted.

Thus, I don't think Gladiator's heat vision will pose too much of an issue.

Gladiator's striking strength isn't too big of an issue.

King Vegeta was able to tank being in the epicenter of an attack that destroyed a huge planet, and whose shockwaves alone were enough destroy other distant planets.

No Caption Provided

Yet base Frieza killed him in a single blow:

No Caption Provided

And as for the whole "physical durability vs energy durability" argument, I have already discussed this:

Once again, ki is the source of 99% of all superhuman abilities in Dragonball, and is source of power for punches and energy blasts alike.

Logically if someone can survive a ki-induced multi planet explosion unharmed and laughing, and then they are killed by a ki-enhanced punch, we can safely say this: the amount of ki that powered must be larger than the amount that caused the planets to explode. Thus, the blow has multi-planet level striking power.

The whole energy durability vs physical durability debate is pretty much pointless because 9.9 times out of 10, it's just their durability against the same force: ki, only difference is its application.

Nevertheless, even if ki wasn't in the equation,there is an enormous amount of kinetic force involved in a planet's destruction, e.g scattering the planet's debris over millions of miles, dispersing the atmosphere, ect.

Saying that tanking a planet's explosion is an energy durability feat alone is moronic.

Remember though, Goku fought against a version of Frieza that was literally hundreds of times stronger in the Namek Saga. Composite Goku would treat that Frieza as fodder.

It should be noted that the ki DBZ characters use for their attacks is also the source of all their superhuman stats, like I said above. They are capable of tanking what they can dish out, meaning characters like Super Perfect Cell can tank solar system level attacks, and was only killed by an attack far more powerful than a solar system buster.

Proof Cell is a Solar System Buster:

- Confirmed in official databooks

- Stated by Akira Toriyama himself

- Since I can use composite feats, I can scale up from the likes of Cooler (who is confirmed to destroy stars in the databooks, and was going to blow up the sun as a last-ditch effort to kill all life on Earth before he himself was killed) and Broly (who wiped out most of a galaxy in several years' time, and was shown in a flashback blowing up stars) and even Goku himself who blew up a large portion of the Sun in Cooler's Revenge.

- I can also use video game feats like this:

Loading Video...

However, when he fought Pikkon in hell, he was casually two-shotted:

left to right

If it weren't for the fact Cell was already dead, he'd been killed.

A weaker version of Goku can trade blows with a serious Pikkon:

Loading Video...

So yeah, Goku is at least equal to Gladiator, most likely above him, in striking strength.

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Kingant27

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T4V please.

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Etheral_Dreams

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Petey_is_Spidey

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Ok, so my first post somehow got deleted (wtf comicvine? -___-) so I'm going to have to remake this.

First and foremost, that's Masterson Thor (Thunderstrike) that Kallark is fighting, not the regular version. Thunderstrike is much weaker than regular Thor, and he still beat Gladiator in that fight, if you would show the full scans. Gladiator engaging in combat with an individual within a foot of himself is not proof of FTL speeds, let alone when the individual is a version of Thor, none of which have particularly fast combat speed, not even the more powerful one (regular 616 Thor) who can't keep up with the likes of Wolverine.

Nonetheless, he wielded Thor's hammer AND possessed his powers. So even though it wasn't Odinson, the fact that he could hang with him for that long is impressive. Also, he ONLY started winning once Thunderstrike got in a sneak attack from Living Lightning, augmenting him with the power of Mjolnir. Leading up to that very moment, Gladiator was absolutely man handling him with ease. But here's a scan of Gladiator speedblitzing the true Thor in the matter of moments.

The nanosecond feats are Gladiator's only potentially FTL combat speed feats, which is only Kid Goku level. Prove me wrong if you can. Even if Glads tries to bullrush Goku at 100x light speed, he'll casually dodge.

Unless I've missed something, Goku's fastest feat is also only nanosecond (and that's speculation), based off the feat's you've provided with me earlier. However, from seeing that scan for myself, it appeared that Goku was several feet away from him. Though it wasn't specified in the actual scan, it's safe to assume the distance was far greater than a foot; when Tien Shinhan was bent over, there was a substantial amount of space in between them, which was AT LEAST 3 feet. Any way you shake it, it's kind of a stretch to assume it was a nanosecond reaction feat, but still nonetheless impressive. Are there any other combat feats suggesting that Goku can achieve FTL speed in combat?

The black hole is a statement from his son, which likely refers to smaller types of black holes, seeing as he couldn't do anything about the black hole he and his allies encountered during Infinity.

Even if it was a small blackhole, it's still a very impressive feat. A black hole with the density of Earth would have the diameter of 1 centimeter, which means assuming if the black whol he ripped apart was even this small, hes strong enough to 'rip apart' an object as massive as Earth. Also, the smaller the blackhole, the denser it is, which would make the feat even more difficult to achieve.

His heat vision being hotter than a star is cool , but that's not enough to kill Goku.

Lol of course I know that, but it's still enough to do some damage. Even in a weaken state vs Hulk, his heat vision was still able to burn through his thick hide to the point where you could see his internal organs. Now this is not me stating it would put him down, but it still can do significant damage, and can provide for a good range attack.

- Bojack, who is much weaker than him was trapped in the center of a star for thousands of years.

Loading Video...

- Cooler was confirmed to destroy stars in the guidebooks, and from what said in Cooler's Revenge, he was capable of destroying the sun and surviving it's explosion, which would release heat far hotter than what's normally in a star's core.

- In GT, Goku could fight with Nuova Shenron whose heat armor elevates his body to temperatures hotter than the sun. He had trouble at first, but easily adapted.

Thus, I don't think Gladiator's heat vision will pose too much of an issue.

Gladiator's striking strength isn't too big of an issue.

King Vegeta was able to tank being in the epicenter of an attack that destroyed a huge planet, and whose shockwaves alone were enough destroy other distant planets.

No Caption Provided

Yet base Frieza killed him in a single blow:

No Caption Provided

Once again, ki is the source of 99% of all superhuman abilities in Dragonball, and is source of power for punches and energy blasts alike.

Logically if someone can survive a ki-induced multi planet explosion unharmed and laughing, and then they are killed by a ki-enhanced punch, we can safely say this: the amount of ki that powered must be larger than the amount that caused the planets to explode. Thus, the blow has multi-planet level striking power.

The whole energy durability vs physical durability debate is pretty much pointless because 9.9 times out of 10, it's just their durability against the same force: ki, only difference is its application.

Nevertheless, even if ki wasn't in the equation,there is an enormous amount of kinetic force involved in a planet's destruction, e.g scattering the planet's debris over millions of miles, dispersing the atmosphere, ect.

Saying that tanking a planet's explosion is an energy durability feat alone is moronic.

Remember though, Goku fought against a version of Frieza that was literally hundreds of times stronger in the Namek Saga. Composite Goku would treat that Frieza as fodder.

It should be noted that the ki DBZ characters use for their attacks is also the source of all their superhuman stats, like I said above. They are capable of tanking what they can dish out, meaning characters like Super Perfect Cell can tank solar system level attacks, and was only killed by an attack far more powerful than a solar system buster.

Proof Cell is a Solar System Buster:

- Confirmed in official databooks

- Stated by Akira Toriyama himself

- Since I can use composite feats, I can scale up from the likes of Cooler (who is confirmed to destroy stars in the databooks, and was going to blow up the sun as a last-ditch effort to kill all life on Earth before he himself was killed) and Broly (who wiped out most of a galaxy in several years' time, and was shown in a flashback blowing up stars) and even Goku himself who blew up a large portion of the Sun in Cooler's Revenge.

- I can also use video game feats like this:

However, when he fought Pikkon in hell, he was casually two-shotted:

left to right

If it weren't for the fact Cell was already dead, he'd been killed.

A weaker version of Goku can trade blows with a serious Pikkon:

Loading Video...

So yeah, Goku is at least equal to Gladiator, most likely above him, in striking strength.

Idk about that man. Here's a feat of Gladiator creating a star with his striking power.

Now if you know a little about Astronomy, you would know it takes an immense amount of gravity, heat, and energy to create a star, similar to the same amount of energy it takes to destroy a star. Now this is just pure speculation, since the size of the star is unknown, but this suggest he has the striking power capable of destroying a solar system.

Though Goku does have great striking power, I doubt it's enough to put down Gladiator, seeing he flew though the center of a star unharmed.

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Etheral_Dreams

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#35  Edited By Etheral_Dreams

Nonetheless, he wielded Thor's hammer AND possessed his powers. So even though it wasn't Odinson, the fact that he could hang with him for that long is impressive. Also, he ONLY started winning once Thunderstrike got in a sneak attack from Living Lightning, augmenting him with the power of Mjolnir. Leading up to that very moment, Gladiator was absolutely man handling him with ease. But here's a scan of Gladiator speedblitzing the true Thor in the matter of moments.

Ok, but not all who wield Thor's hammer are equal. For example, Jane with Thor's hammer is nowhere as strong as Thor was with it, and neither is Throg. Just because you have Thor's powers doesn't mean you are anywhere near herald level, let alone planet level. Gladiator beating up a character not even comparable to King Vegeta isn't enough to make him more than fodder. And once again, regular Thor is both slow and prone to holding back. If he let loose he could one-shot Kallark.

Unless I've missed something, Goku's fastest feat is also only nanosecond (and that's speculation), based off the feat's you've provided with me earlier. However, from seeing that scan for myself, it appeared that Goku was several feet away from him. Though it wasn't specified in the actual scan, it's safe to assume the distance was far greater than a foot; whenTien Shinhan was bent over, there was a substantial amount of space in between them, which was AT LEAST 3 feet. Any way you shake it, it's kind of a stretch to assume it was a nanosecond reaction feat, but still nonetheless impressive. Are there any other combat feats suggesting that Goku can achieve FTL speed in combat?

You are missing something: as a kid, Goku intercepted an object thousands of times FTL (the Dragonballs) before it could move 10 feet or so. That's up to picosecond reaction time; I can post a calculation, but I'd rather keep calcs out of this. And it is a nanosecond reaction time, because Goku moved over 50 feet (the arena is several hundred square feet) into the stands, then cross a similar distance to return, in the time it took light to travel 3 or so feet (roughly 3 nanoseconds.) This already faster than Gladiator and Hyperion, who in the full fight which I only posted a page of, took several nanoseconds to throw a punch. Anyways, much slower characters like Nappa have reacted to and deflected FTL attacks at point blank range (i.e. the Masenko, whose speed varies based on how much power is in it; weaker versions of it than the one Nappa reacted to have hit the moon in a 1 second time frame, and stronger ones are shown capable of hitting a distant planet) and King Kai couldn't keep track of Goku and Frieza fighting. To put this in perspective, King Kai casually tracks things millions of times FTL.

Once again: Namek Saga Goku. Composite Goku is quite literally millions of times stronger. Goku can also react to his own Kamehameha which are consistently portrayed FTL.

Even if it was a small blackhole, it's still a very impressive feat. A black hole with the density of Earth would have the diameter of 1 centimeter, which means assuming if the black whol he ripped apart was even this small, hes strong enough to 'rip apart' an object as massive as Earth. Also, the smaller the blackhole, the denser it is, which would make the feat even more difficult to achieve.

First of all, what you said isn't true. The larger a black hole is, the more mass it has, hence why the massive black holes that galaxies orbit around are supermassive black holes, hundreds of light years in diameter, and not the black holes found throughout space which are only the size of stars on average (anywhere from a few hundred thousand to several million miles.) Scientists have created black holes the size of atoms, far smaller than 1 cm, yet they haven't ripped apart the Earth. The larger a black hole the denser it is, thus the more gravitational attraction it has.

Idk about that man. Here's a feat of Gladiator creating a star with his striking power.

Now if you know a little about Astronomy, you would know it takes an immense amount of gravity, heat, and energy to create a star, similar to the same amount of energy it takes to destroy a star. Now this is just pure speculation, since the size of the star is unknown, but this suggest he has the striking power capable of destroying a solar system.

Though Goku does have great striking power, I doubt it's enough to put down Gladiator, seeing he flew though the center of a star unharmed.

You're misinterpreting what happened. The Skrulls, in a last ditch effort to kill Gladiator flipped a switch which activated the ship's self-destruct function. The ship exploded in a blast powerful enough to wipe out half of the solar system (so small supernova level), but Gladiator contained the blast through unknown means. It was described by the narrator as a new star poetically, not literally, otherwise Reed Richards and his super computer wouldn't have identified it as a supernova.

Gladiator has never shown the level of striking strength to hurt Goku. He regularly takes hits from people far beyond Pikkon (who based off of feats, has enough striking power to kill Gladiator in 2 blows, maybe less; Glads hasn't shown to be more durable then Cell.) How is flying through a star unharmed is supposed to be impressive when the likes of Bojack have been imprisoned in stars for millennia without sustaining any damage?... Especially when base Gohan (Saiyaman Arc; weaker than SSJ3 Goku by a significant margin) has injured him and others on his level by simply flying through/past them, and then scared them away from the strength of his punch?

Even if Goku didn't have the striking power, he has immense energy manipulation which is more than enough to compensate.

Some of Goku's best energy manipulation/output feats:

By the Cell Saga's end, it is well known that Gohan in his SSJ2 form has the power to destroy multiple solar systems through his energy manipulation. This is based off of his overpowering Cell's Solar Kamehameha, the infamous attack which was going to wipe out Earth and the rest of the solar system.

SSJ3 Goku is many times stronger than SSJ2 Gohan. In the movie DBZ: Fusion Reborn, Goku's transforming SSJ3 releases so much ki energy that it distorts the space around him and shakes Hell, along with the rest of the cosmos (the higher dimensions in DBZ; basically the afterlife and home of the gods.)

Link if it doesn't embed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMQeueJnzSo

According to this official map of the DBZ universe and it's different dimensions, Hell and the rest of the cosmos are roughly the same size as the mortal universe.

Current Goku (Super Saiyan God) is more powerful than Vegito, who can stomp the likes of Buuhan. Buuhan was capable of destroying the universe with his vice shout, a technique where he releases his energy through his voice. This was not an exaggeration, as it was confirmed by Vegito himself (who has some degree of cosmic awareness and can measure ki) and the Eastern Supreme Kai, one of the gods who watches over the universe and creates the stars and planets in it.

Link: https://youtu.be/IdnNCW4Sgdw?t=1343

Vegito managed to stop this attack easily, however.

SSJ God Goku is also as strong as 70% full power Beerus, who is strong enough to wipe out the Kaioshin Realm when angered, although still implied to be a casual feat.

"The Kaioshin (who create planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they go to each other’s realms and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaioshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaioshin Realm itself. By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus." - Akira Toriyama

Interview link - http://www.dragonballinsider.com/2014/05/12/june-2014-saikyo-jump-akira-toriyama-interview/

The series' ultimate authority confirms Beerus could destroy the Kaioshin Realm which is 1/10th the size of the universe.

Another picture of the model of the Dragonball universe designed by Akira T. himself. The mortal universe and all it's galaxies only make up a portion of it.
Another picture of the model of the Dragonball universe designed by Akira T. himself. The mortal universe and all it's galaxies only make up a portion of it.

SSJ4 Gogeta, who is almost universally agreed upon to be weaker than SSJ God Goku, can do this:

Link: https://youtu.be/qNtp553dOr8?t=1048

Watch from 17:28 to 19:37, those are the relevant parts. Gogeta managed to casually kick away and overpower Omega Shenron's Negative Karma Ball, his most powerful attack, with his own energy.

"How powerful is Negative Karma Ball?"

Well, it's the sum of the entirety of Omega Shenron's power condensed into a single attack.

"Ok, but how powerful is Omega Shenron?"

I'll let Elder Kai explain (don't worry, he's a reliable source; he is the eldest and most knowledgeable of the Supreme Kais, the nigh-omniscient gods who rule the universe.)

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEIVRmDNWaI

He confirms that Omega Shenron (Yi Xing Long in Chinese, hence the video's title and some of the names) has the power to corrode away the galaxies, and eventually the entire universe including the Kaioshin Realm I talked about before. He unleashed all of this power on Gogeta, who barely acknowledged it as a threat.

By the end of GT, Goku has trained for a straight century with Shenron (the good one) and absorbed the Dragonballs into himself, becoming more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta on his own.

Goku at the end of GT
Goku at the end of GT

In the main DBZ canon, Goku and Vegeta - both way past their primes and dying - decide to leave Earth and have one last fight before they die of old age. This was documented in the official DBO timeline written by Akira Toriyama. The English translation is as follows:

AGE 801

Son Goku vanishes.

--Knowing his end is near, Goku leaves Earth with Vegeta so that the two can finally settle their score. Several years later, [astronomers?] note the explosion of [a] supernova[e?]. Possibly this was an aftereffect of Son Goku and Vegeta’s battle.

A dying Goku and Vegeta are so powerful that years after their fight took place, the residual ki alone is enough to trigger the explosion of [a] star[s]. In the Dragonball franchise, it is shown that residual ki from explosions and battles is usually so weak it can barely be sensed (even the ki of small animals and humans can be sensed), let alone be enough to trigger star level explosions. Their final clash, even past their prime, would have to be in excess of galaxy level.

Composite Goku has all of the above feats: he should have more than enough firepower to easily dispose of Gladiator. Goku was never even shown or implied to be bloodlusted in any of the above feats.

Through superior firepower, speed, and striking strength, I think Goku can take this.

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Etheral_Dreams

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PreCrisisBardock

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Etheral_Dreams

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@precrisisbardock: It's composite Goku, so I can mention him if I want. Plus, obviously I'm going to disregard the all of the PIS/WIS feats.

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PreCrisisBardock

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#39  Edited By PreCrisisBardock

@etheral_dreams: I mean there is a lot of controversy and no 100% way of comparing GT to BoG.

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@etheral_dreams: I mean there is a lot of controversy and no 100% way of comparing GT to BoG.

That may be true, but there's no need to compare or decide which one is stronger. The Goku I'm using is an amalgam.

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KR0NUS11

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Dang. I didn't watch GT (heard it sucked) so I didn't know about Omega Shenron's power. I'm unsure how Gladiator can really compete with that kinda strength. Good rebuttal @etheral_dreams.

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DarthVxder

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#43  Edited By DarthVxder

Surprised he didnt attack the energy=physical durability. This is looking nice so far though.

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#44  Edited By PreCrisisBardock

@precrisisbardock said:

@etheral_dreams: I mean there is a lot of controversy and no 100% way of comparing GT to BoG.

That may be true, but there's no need to compare or decide which one is stronger. The Goku I'm using is an amalgam.

True.

Match is kinda one-sided IMO atm...

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#45  Edited By JuzaCloud

@etheral_dreams: I mean there is a lot of controversy and no 100% way of comparing GT to BoG.

Yes there is. GT guide book states ssj4 goku is equal to vegito. SSG Goku and beerus are far beyond that and ssj4 gogeta.

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Etheral_Dreams

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@precrisisbardock said:

@etheral_dreams: I mean there is a lot of controversy and no 100% way of comparing GT to BoG.

Yes there is. GT guide book states ssj4 goku is equal to vegito. SSG Goku and beerus are far beyond that and ssj4 gogeta.

Guess that answers that. Also, I know I'm not using Xenoverse feats, but Xenoverse also pretty much confirms SSJG>SSJ4 Gogeta.

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Petey_is_Spidey

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@etheral_dreams: Got my hands a little full at the moment. Might take me a while to respond.

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PreCrisisBardock

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@precrisisbardock said:

@etheral_dreams: I mean there is a lot of controversy and no 100% way of comparing GT to BoG.

Yes there is. GT guide book states ssj4 goku is equal to vegito. SSG Goku and beerus are far beyond that and ssj4 gogeta.

GT Guidebook isn't canon even to GT.

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@juzacloud said:
@precrisisbardock said:

@etheral_dreams: I mean there is a lot of controversy and no 100% way of comparing GT to BoG.

Yes there is. GT guide book states ssj4 goku is equal to vegito. SSG Goku and beerus are far beyond that and ssj4 gogeta.

GT Guidebook isn't canon even to GT.

Doesn't really matter, this is composite meaning all sources are relevant.