#1 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Beta Ray Bill

vs

Ghost Rider (Zarathos)

We will debate and let the Majority decide.

  • Win by Death, KO, or Incap!
  • Battleground New York
  • Standard Gear: BRB gets Stormbreaker, Zarathos gets his Cycle
  • Current Versions
  • #2 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    Now many non GR people (I seen it) on the Vine here will shout mismatch due to some thought that A) Mijnor is a holy weapon and will outright kill GR and B) GR is so much physically weaker.

    All BS.

    I will show and counter thru the 30+ years of GR comics I have.

    First off stats. First thing people need to realize GR has 2 Power Levels. GR has the Human Power Level and then he has the Spirit Power Level. Most people don't seem to know this.

    So to demonstrate the difference is Doctor Strange!

    Ghost Rider is enough to make Strange go DAMN!

    Here is a couple Angels discussing the power Level of Zarathos.

    Most Angels and Strange himself have no clue as to what Zarathos (or any other GR) is.

    Well heres the BIG Secrete! Hes a Angel! Not just any Angel either but of Gods own Power!

    Its on Floopay!

    #3 Edited by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

    Sh!t got real. Love both characters so best of luck.

    #4 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @jeanroygrant: Thanks. :)

    #5 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

    @CadenceV2 said:

    @jeanroygrant: Thanks. :)

    NP :)

    #6 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

    I'm.... really not sure.

    A full-powered Ghost Rider is serious bad news. Beta Ray Bill has taken on the likes of Galactus and his heralds.

    It'd certainly be one awesome fight. I can't say who'd win, but I'd be rooting for Bill simply cause he's one of my favorite characters.

    #7 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay : I'm on a role tonight. So I'm listing Zarathos Stats in feats.

    Strength! A full out GR has the Strength to thro around 200 Tons worth of construction Machinery with ease.

    His Durability is complete Immunity to physical harm from both science and brute power. Left to right. Building busting explosion, High Tech weapons, Head blown by Laser, EATS Nitroglycerin.

    On top of this Zarathos has multiple abilities. Hellfire. Hellfire is a multi purpose fire that can Burn Souls as well as Flesh.

    He can use this Hellfire to create Solid Objects like a Hellfire Cycle (which his Cycle becomes).

    Or he can use it to create infinite amount of unbreakable Chains!

    Finally it can make some MAD Explosions.

    Ontop of these incredible power GR has shown the ability to travel back and forth from Hells and Earth.

    Finally GR have one more Uber powerful gift. The Penance Stare. it affects anything with a Soul, feels Pain, and has Morals. If you have 2 of those 3 it should affect you like it has Angels, Demons Monsters, Dr. Strange, ect.

    With all this GR is a match for the likes of anyone below Sky Father. Even then GR has taken on Nightmare, Satan, Lucifer, Mephisto, Null the Living Void, Blackheart, Dr. Strange, and even Pluto.

    Zarathos proven the likes of BRB are well within his League.

    #8 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @CadenceV2:

    Alright, here we go...

    Beta Ray Bill

    Strength: Beta Ray Bill is in the Class 100+. Which is the same as Ghost Rider, however, Beta Ray Bill can lift thousands, upon thousands of tons of weight, possibly even in the millions or more. I believe he is at least a planetoid buster, and IIRC a confirmed planet buster as well.

    Durability: Bill has endured the pull of two singularities simultaneously without being injured, he has been within the heart of a sun, has taken planetoid busting shots from Thor, tanked shots from Galactus's heralds (Stardust, Alpha Ray, Silver Surfer, etc.).

    Speed/Reflexes: Beta Ray Bill has shown to be able to perceive things traveling at light speeds or higher. He has dodged energy blasts, and more importantly, he has stopped energy blasts after they were fired with his hammer. Beta Ray Bill probably hovers somewhere in the nanosecond-nanosecond+ reflex range.

    Superhuman Stamina: Bill can fight almost endlessly without rest.

    Heat Absorption: On multiple occasions, the application of heat has revitalized Beta Ray Bill, allowing him to fight longer, or even bringing him back from a full KO.

    Weather Manipulation: Bill has shown weather manipulation that may even put Thor to shame.

    Energy Absorption: Through Stormbreaker, Bill can absorb and redirect energy attacks.

    Energy Projection: Because of Stormbreaker, Beta Ray Bill can send powerful lightning attacks and projectiles....

    Beta Ray Bill Feats!

    Unlike his counterpart, Thor, Beta Ray Bill does not run from Ego, he stands and fights...and wins.

    Beta Ray Bill demonstrates that he can teleport here.

    Opens up a wormhole, and brings forth a barrage of comets to pummel Ego, who is attempting to absorb a fleet of ships by increasing his gravitational pull

    Re-absorbs the energy he had previously taken from Ego. Again, tremendous amounts of energy absorption on BRB's part.

    Here is Stardust and Beta Ray Bill

    That orb, IIRC, holds the souls of a bunch of Korbonites. You can see Bill is fast enough to block an energy beam with his hammer here.

    Stardust lets loose an all-out blast against Bill, and he takes stands his ground.

    Beta Ray Bill UNLOADS back at Stardust....

    Lets just go ahead and pin Stardust to the planet....with her own weapon...

    Blasts down at her, and then is INSTANTLY back on top of her....

    Beta Ray Bill vs. Tanaraq's army, plus the Wrecking Crew (empowered by Tanaraq IIRC)

    Omni-directional blasts, capable of destroying armies, and if you notice, they are mostly incinerated by this attack...

    Strikes fear into the demons...

    Voidian sentences Beta Ray Bill to death via singularity bisection...what does that mean, that means he's going to open up two black holes directly next to BRB...

    Here he opens up the singularities

    Not only can Beta Ray Bill stand their pull, but he can lift his arm enough to throw his hammer towards Voidian's device...

    Godkiller vs. Thor and Beta Ray Bill

    Beta Ray Bill shields himself against the Godkiller

    Beta Ray Bill loses this fight, but luckily Thor shows up to save the day. She takes his weapon and depowers him.

    Thor and BRB hold up Asgard, this is after him and Thor take a thrashing from the Skrull invasion and the Godkiller

    Godkiller all but slain, BRB gets his hammer back

    Asgard falls


    Asgard Falling :P

    Asgard falling more

    Thor and Beta Ray Bill catch it, and hold it for awhile

    Asgard becomes the floating city once more, After Thor and BRB catch it

    Beta Ray Bill should be more than enough to KO or Incapacitate Zarathos. He can't kill him, but he can do a number on him. Hellfire was proven to be ineffective against Thor, and though a weaker version of Ghost Rider, he was unable to do much more than give Thor a bit of a humbling. A throw from Stormbreaker could prove devastating to Zarathos, not to mention his lightning.

    Physically, Zarathos is completely outmatched here. Now Zarathos's elemental abilities are amazing, and his fire can be devastating. Unfortunately, Beta Ray Bill is designed in such a capacity that I truly have my doubts about it really harming him. Zarathos may be able to compete with people on Bill's level, but I do not believe he can compete with Bill himself, his power set seems to off set the Ghost Rider by quite a bit.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #9 Posted by SoA (4776 posts) - - Show Bio

    these two are underrated so much hellfire vs a (better) god of storms . whoever wins ill be happy . i just cant choose between em lol

    #10 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3448 posts) - - Show Bio

    Interesting...

    #11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay: Alright lets HEAT this up. LOL

    Blaze vs the Avengers.

    No Effort there in Soul Burning.
    Deafeats IM and outrun Thors Hammer while Humbling Thor. This is not even a all out zarathos but weaker Blaze Control Rider.

    Dr. Strange vs GR.

    Dr. Strange vs Jhonny Blaze GR.

    At this point Blaze is KO and Zarathos comes out to effortlessly stomp Dr. Strange.

    Total Pwn. The Sorceror Supreme who recently defeated Scarlet Witch of Avenger Dissasseble powerless against Zarathos.

    Blaze vs WWH.

    Again notice how all Physical Damage means nothing to GR. Same with Planet Busting Strength. Means nothing. Blaze can be Ko but were using Zarathos and he has no limits.

    Zarathos vs Hell Lord Azmodeus who is right below Mephisto in power.

    Pwning a Hell Lord in his own realm is more impressive than beating a Herald of Galactus.

    Finally the Creme of the Crop we have Zarathos vs Lucifer himself at half power.

    A Full Power Lucifer Destroys the planet with his presence.

    Half Power is surly Herald Level and Zarathos ends him with ease.

    These are the Spirit of Vengeance Nobel Kale that possesses Daniel Ketch.

    These feats are important as Nobel Spirit of Vengeance is the same level as Zarathos. In fact he was mistaken for Zarathos for years since his power was as close as Zarathos.

    Nobel Kale vs Blackheart.

    Dan Ketch in controle defeats Blackheart.

    Nobel Kale GR (Ketchs Spirit of Vengeance) Kills Blackheart with his power. Kills Hell Lord Blackheart.

    Then takes Mephistos Realm. Thats a FEAT!

    Nobel Kale also defeated Nightmare in his own Realm as well.

    Together tapping the power of Nobel Kale Spirit of Vengeance they overwhelm Nightmare completely in his own Realm.

    Point is The Spirit of Vengeance have beaten Hell Lords in their own realm. Mephisto proven Hell Lords in their realm is equal to Galactus. Same with Nightmare a Fear Lord. The Spirit overpower Sorceror Supreme and WWH.

    The Spirit of Vengeance has beaten a Angel that wield Gods own power.

    Zadkiel Burning Heaven
    Zadkiel takes Gods power.

    The Spirit of Vengeance prove they are of Gods direct power and cannot be broken.

    They have many Abilities with their Hellfire as Ketch showed with Hellfire Avatars and Flight. InfiniteUnbrackable Chains. As well Hellfire that affected Null the Living Darkness. Heck all these showings show Uber Magic used on Zarathos with minor Damage.

    I just dont see BRB Holding up to BFR (Scan of GR traveling to hell and back), Incapacitation (Chains), or the awsome Hell Fire. I'm tempted to say the Penance Stare might work since BRB has Morals and a Conscience.

    Too Sum up again the Spirit of Vengeance power.

    ..

    Zarathos is BRBs Damnation.

    #12 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @CadenceV2:

    I don't know if Lucifer was even half powered at that point. He was splitting his power with the last body fragment left alive by the Ghost Rider, but IIRC GR was able to go to the last brain dead fragment and kill it before it had finished coming to full power. Meaning that it obviously takes a bit of time for the fragments to amplify themselves and come to power.

    Tanaraq again. This is against the Wrecking Crew who were empowered and possessed by Tanaraq in his home plane of existence


    Again, omnidirectional



    I've already provided the scans for what happens next...

    Tanaraq AGAIN, this is him possessing Sasquatch. BRB blasts a lightning bolt through him...

    Beta Ray Bill comes to save the day....Sasquatch is rocking

    Guardian is very unhappy with Bill, but his planet shattering attacks are hard to contend with, especially when he uses his hammer to blast a hole through someone's abdomen

    Skrull Clone of the Warriors Three vs. Beta Ray Bill

    Beta Ray Bill puts a beat down on him

    BRB isn't just handling the clone, he's handling them all

    But this thing is nothing compared to the might of Beta Ray Bill

    Beta Ray Bill, as ruthless as he is, is clearly an innocent with a pure soul.

    Beta Ray Bill vs. Thor, Round 1 FIGHT

    Beta Ray Bill disarms Thor

    Without his hammer, Thor reverts to his regular form. Beta Ray Bill was holding his own just fine before this, and this is without Stormbreaker.

    Beta Ray Bill vs. Thor, Round 2, Hand to Hand, FIGHT

    Beta Ray Bill is revived by the heat.

    Beta Ray Bill manifest a storm to block the Black Sun's rays

    Surfer and Gladiator are crushing on Beta Ray Bill,

    Surfer states "Asgardian Fury, One of thew Few things in the universe that gives me pause"

    Gladiator states "I know what you mean, in the service of Chan-dar I've seen a thousand wars on a thousand worlds. Men like Beta-Ray serve to remind me how humble we should be in the face of this universe.

    Hellfire was completely ineffective against Thor, I'm doubting it'll affect Beta Ray to be completely honest. As far as the HEAT aspect of Hellfire goes, along with the soul-burning effect. Well, I've shown multiple times how Bill handles heat....

    Again, even against Ghost Rider's most powerful blasts, Beta Ray Bill can shield himself, and he has done so on multiple occasions, both in the previous scans I've provided, and in the following:

    As far as BRB vs. BFR, that is going to be NO issue. Beta Ray Bill regularly travels to Asgard and back via teleportation/dimensional travel. I even provided a scan when he fought Ego of him teleporting, and then coming back moments later with several meteors to crash into Ego's face. If anything, Ghost Rider should worry about being BFR'd hundreds of thousands of lightyears away in an instant...possibly even millions...

    Beta Ray Bill BFRs a minitature Black hole to a place where "There's not a single matter to mess with it within a million lightyears"

    Beta Ray Bill is an innocent with a pure soul. I truly doubt the power of the Penance Stare against a man (cyborg) such as himself. He is too kind hearted to kill the Skrull clone, and he's always defending the innocent. Bill is one of the few characters who I believe has been nothing but righteous. Except during the Godhunter series, where he sought to kill Galactus by starving him to death. But will that be enough for the Penance Stare? I doubt it. I believe Beta Ray Bill has already atoned for that sin...

    A starving Galactus soon to be doomed.

    What's that Beta Ray Bill? You need to save the man who has destroyed your entire race and you have every reason to loathe and destroy? Dang you Voidian, trying to stick your nose where it doesn't belong...

    Uncouple his reactors, that's suicide man, what are you doing!?

    Beta Ray Bill is here, to save Galactus

    All of his energy unleashed, and Beta Ray Bill doomed to destruction, he sacrifices himself to revive a starved and fallen Galactus. Someone who he has every reason to hate, and every reason to want dead.

    Despite his ruthlessness, and his uncompromising nature, Beta Ray Bill has proven he is a pure and innocent soul. Always saving the innocent, and always doing his best to protect everyone from imminent harm. Penance Stare, you are outmatched here.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #13 Posted by laflux (15383 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay: @CadenceV2:

    Great work guys so far. Oh by the way Cadence when are you up for the Ult Spider-Man and Gambit vs Beast and Cap thread. I've got my scans ready!!!!!!!!!!!

    #14 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay: In the Scans of Lucifer there was 2 left. Blaze Brain Dead one Avatar thus cut it off from transforming into the power of Half. The one he fought was at Half Power. 1 of 2 Avatars left. Ghost Rider even tells him in the scans.

    More on Durability. Ketch Spirit vs Satan's Trucker

    Hes not even down for a few seconds after being hit with a very Unholy Semi Truck.

    Here is some things GR can do with Hellfire.

    As seen his Hellfire Can be made into Chains, TK Attacks, Avatars, Wings, Weapons, as well destroy Cities with a Single Blast. Its very potent and more so than any attack from Storm Breaker.

    GR has shown at times ability to remain unseen as well.

    Highly Veteran Cowboys and Trackers out on a flat open Plain. GR simply appears.

    There been Numerous times too GR has travel between Nightmares Realm, Hell Realms, and the Realm of the Spirit of Vengeance.

    On top of these incredible power GR has shown the ability to travel back and forth from Hells and Earth.

    Whole Town BFR nto GRs personal Hell.

    Feats of the power of Weaker Ghost Rider. Mainly the Spirit of Vengeance Human Host.

    Ketch (Not even near full power) vs Mr. Hyde. He is a match for a guy who regularly battled Classic Thor.

    Mr. Hyde who regularly fought Thor and Hulk. Defeated by a mere Ketch Control Rider.

    Ketch level Rider again vs Brood Queen.

    The Brood who gave a whole X-Team trouble was beaten by GR easy. He even De Skinned the Brood Queen and Hellfire Blast her away.

    Blaze vs a Powerful Arch Angel. (One of my Favorite Fights actually)

    Blaze finds the Seraph Angel with Access to Heaven. Blaze doesn't want to fight but ends this battle against a Uber class Angel.

    Here is a Treat. Blaze vs the Deacon. The Deacon has the Strength of Samson (Strength of a Thousand Men) and is given 2 Holy Blades design to kill a GR.

    Blaze vs the Deacon

    As seen for all his Super Strength, Protection from Zadkiel, and Holy Weapons design to kill GR the Deacon fails.

    Zarathos vs Lucifer Avatar.

    Notice Blaze gets wrecked by this Lucifer Avatar. Then Zarathos effortlessly kills him.

    Penance stare works on Demons, Angels, and Dr. Strange. No way BRB is immune to it. It doesnt matter if your soul is pure. It only matters if you caused Pain and all the pain you ever caused will be payed back onto you.

    I have Scans here of Nobel Souls. Blaze who is condemn to hell yet still does right. Ketch who sacrifice everything including his life. Dr. Strange, cant get more Nobel or Pure than the Sorceror Supreme. A Angel who wanted to help Blaze and Humanity. BRB will be affected.

    GR Power is So Great that he has taken Mephistos Realm, caused Classic Strange to go on the run during Midnight Sons, and power has been felt around the world where even Thor went DAMN!

    Summary.

    Point is I definitely have the tools to Soul Burn and (BRB never shown Immunity to it and it hurts WWH level beings) as well Hellfire TK, Chains, and Avatars to call on. I shown Durability to Magic and Holy Weapons as well Regen that is near Instant. I also shown no matter how Nobel you are the PS works on you and pays back all the Pain you ever done. BRB has caused alot of Pain. If worse comes to worse Zarathos could send you to the Realm of the Spirit of Vengeance or Hell where the battle will for sure change into GR favor.

    #15 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @CadenceV2:

    Penance Stare doesn't always work, one has to feel remorse for those they have killed/harmed. It not only failed against Carnage, but in his instance it flat out knocked Ketch out IIRC. Penance Staring an "angel" means nothing out of context, if that was a follower of Zadkiel, it would have plenty to feel remorse for, he was also an angel, and not exactly pure of heart. Doctor Strange it worked against, but it didn't do anything substantial in terms of permanent harm, just some temporary pain and a KO. But then again, Doctor Strange isn't exactly pure of heart either, he has PLENTY, and I do mean PLENTY to be remorseful over. The guy has handled people's souls and gambled with peoples lives countless times throughout the ages.

    Beta Ray Bill doesn't have that issue, Deacon was hardly even phased by the Penance Stare due to his lack of remorse. Beta Ray Bill has atoned for his sins, and has saved the innocent on multiple occasions.

    Beta Ray Bill hasn't fought any angels that I'm aware of, but he has bested Heralds of Galactus, and triumphed over beings who would put most demons and angels to shame....

    We will debate and let the Majority decide.
  • Win by Death, KO, or Incap!
  • Battleground New York
  • Standard Gear: BRB gets Stormbreaker, Zarathos gets his Cycle
  • Current Versions
  • KO and Incap are valid methods of win here. BRB has more than what it takes to KO Zarathos.

    Beta Ray Bill faces Galactus

    Fights with Alpha Ray when he is the herald of Galactus, and tanks a shot from Galactus.

    BRB Survives, and continues to fight.

    Beta Ray Bill tanks planet busting attacks from Galactus, even after fighting Galactus's herald Alpha Ray. And then goes on to fight Stardust....AGAIN!

    Beta Ray Bill rips out Omega Ray's soul...

    I will rip out your soul and feed it to you.

    Omega Ray is out to absorb the remaining Korbonite souls, and Beta Ray Bill seeks to stop him (though Omega Ray clearly looks like a she in full form...). He reaches his hand down Omega's gullet and threatens to feed him his own soul.

    Beta Ray Bill, despite wanting to do all he could to save Asgard from Surtur with the Asgardians, goes on to make sure their tale survives Asgard's destruction...

    If the Deacon, a murder who believes himself doing the Lord's work, is unaffected by the Penance Stare, I don't see any reason why Beta Ray Bill, a man who has spent his lifetime protecting the innocent, and has sacrificed himself on multiple occasions, and put himself in harms way to save others, would be affected. Where other heroes have compromised, Beta Ray Bill has shown strength of character. He would have gladly thrown himself at Surtur and his army and died happily, but Thor gave him a different task, and despite Beta Ray Bill's convictions, he knew it best to honor his oath Brother's wishes.

    Overall

    Zarathos is much more powerful than his human hosts, there's no doubting that. But the fact is he has been physically injured, and almost completely destroyed by the application of physical force. Beta Ray Bill wields both physical, and mystical force, and carries both kinds of protection. He is proven to have millisecond and even nanoseconds reaction times. He can easily conjure a mystical barrier to defend himself against the most powerful blows, and even without a barrier has tanked several planet busting attacks and remained standing.

    Over and above this any heat generated by Zarathos will only serve to revitalize Bill, whereas all attacks by Beta Ray will serve to harm Zarathos. Zarathos has to resort to his chains, and to physical attack. However, Beta Ray Bill has shown a level of combat prowess above Zarathos in terms of skill and training. He has shown physical superiority in every aspect, he has fought and damaged armies of demons with his lightning, he has teleported and created portals and wormholes, and he has shown he is righteous and pure of heart.

    He is a guardian of his people, and even without Stormbreaker he has matched Thor in combat. Surfer and Gladiator have both commented their views on his immense power, and his appearances in Star Masters, Annihilators, and Omega Flight have shown how far he is willing to go to save his team mates, his friends, and the innocent.

    He is skilled, he is fantastic at thinking on his feat (teleporting away from Ego and coming back with some meteors for Ego to draw in with his increased gravitational pull, pretty clever), has powerful energy blasts, and energy absorption. Has immense durability, and has shown to be revitalized by heat on multiple occasions. His physical attacks are devastating, and contain both mystical and physical damage within them. He can conjure barriers, he has great flight, and weather manipulation.

    Zarathos is amazing, and I do honestly believe he can fight on the cosmic level. But I don't believe Hellfire will be too effective against him, and the heat from it will only prove counter productive. I honestly think Beta Ray Bill should be immune to the Penance Stare, he wouldn't be the first innocent to resist the effects, and he wouldn't be the first righteous man to resist the effects either, so he has both of those things going for him. I think perhaps against Thor, who has been morally compromised on more occasions, Zarathos would do better, and maybe even against some of the Heralds of Galactus. But I believe Beta Ray Bill has a unique set of conditions within him that give him an edge in this fight.

    I'm pretty much out of scans and feats, if you would like to make more arguments or provide a closing argument feel free, but I think I'm about ready for voting. I suppose I could probably scrounge up a few more if you want to continue though.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #16 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay: I wanted to post this much as well.

    Penance Stare as I said works on all. That Angel was infact NOT a servant of Zadkiel but did know the truth.In fact the Penance stare worked on Madcap who feels nothing.

    He has no emotions but insanity. He felt the PS just fine. Venom is the ONLY and Inconsistant showing.

    Ofcourse this WAS in VENOM'S own Comic >_>. Totally discredible. Hell they had Venom survivng a full attack from Juggernaut 0_0. PIS if I ever saw one.

    Do you think Demons feel Remorse? Heck No. PS works on them as well. BRB will fall victim to it as well.

    Just to prove how powerful Hellfire and Zarathos is another good Battle vs Null the Living Darkness.

    Ghost Rider Unshrinks himself with his Rage Alone and prove this near Abstract Being cant harm him. GR waits for a opening and Hellfire the sum total of a Race into victory.

    Death Itself came in guise as Death Rider to claim Johnny Soul. A feat in itself as Death (Abstract Being next to Eternity) could not take Blazes Soul while Attach to the Spirit of Vengeance.

    Ghost Rider beaten Death at his own game.

    Spirit of Vengeance vs Zadkiel with Gods Power.

    Zadkiel is Archangel of the highest order. He ends up taking Gods power as his own.

    With Gods Power.

    I dont see where BRB can KO Zarathos. A KO it's like Boxing. Zarathos will not hit the count of 10. Heck he make it before 5 all the time. Also I see no way BRB can dodge Zarathos Attacks which are City Size ecompossing.

    As for BRB fighting Galactus is taken out of Context as well. Galactus was Hungry and nowhere near semi fed in power. At that level Hyperion or Gladiator could take Galactus.

    Meanwhile Zarathos and other Spirit of Vengeance took on Classic Strange, Null the Living Void, Nightmare, Lucifer, Satan, Azmodeus, Son of Satan, Mephisto, Abstract DEATH itself, and Zadkeil with the Power of God Almighty himself. The Power of Sis-Neg is what powers the Spirits of Vengeance.

    Im ready for Voting and may this be the go to Link for GR Respect :)

    #17 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @CadenceV2:

    In no way, shape, or form did I state he beat or even harmed Galactus, I stated he shook off an attack from Galactus. And Madcap has resisted the Penance stare before, as has Venom AND Carnage, as well as Deacon. He's also used it to test people's innocence before IIRC. But anyway, lets gets this voted on.

    I'll call out a few extra users to vote as well.

    @laflux:

    @ghost_rider1:

    @TheCowman:

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #18 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay: Deacon was protected by Zadkiel from the Stare. Madcap never resisted the stare. It hit him hard and he gets back up after the pain settles. I never seen Carnage fight GR at all. Venom was the only Plot Device it did not affect.

    This is the same Venom Book series that fought GR and Juggernaut in mutiple pages. All PIS. ;)

    #19 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3448 posts) - - Show Bio

    If u guys are ready for ppl to start voting then ill vote first. My vote goes to ghost rider obviously....I don't see BRB KO'ing a zarathos control rider. CadenceV2 has already posted the scans of ther spirit of vengeance beating Hell Lord level beings who are damn near skyfather level. One could argue that the magical properties that make up stormbreaker could do some damage to the ghost rider. But if the Sorcerer Supreme best attacks couldn't put down ghost rider then I doubt BRB would do any better. Zarathos has unlimited amounts of hellfire that he can create and manipulate in such a way that the only limit to his hellfire manioulative abilities is his imagination and he also have unbreakable chains that he can unleash all over his body that he can control at will....almost as if the chains had a mind of their own. To sum all of this up....ghost rider wins because I don't see BRB BFR'ing GR....I don't see him KO'ing or killing ghost rider in any way. And ghost rider have unlimited amounts of hellfire, chains, and the surekill Penance Stare

    #20 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3448 posts) - - Show Bio
    @CadenceV2

    The penance stare doesn't work on symbiotes because of the simple fact that the penance stare doesn't affect mentally unstable foes(aka symbiotes). Whenn someone is the host of a symbiote they are usually not themselves and there thoughts and actions are somewhat influenced by the symbiote. And also the symbiote and the human are two separate living beings. Which could also be a reason why it didn't affect venom

    #21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @ghost_rider1 said:

    @CadenceV2 The penance stare doesn't work on symbiotes because of the simple fact that the penance stare doesn't affect mentally unstable foes(aka symbiotes). Whenn someone is the host of a symbiote they are usually not themselves and there thoughts and actions are somewhat influenced by the symbiote. And also the symbiote and the human are two separate living beings. Which could also be a reason why it didn't affect venom

    I used to belive that but GR had one instance fighting a Symbiot (Venom) in Venoms Book. Madcap. Blaze, and Ketch have all been Penance Stare. Madcap is EXTREMELY Mentally unstable and both Ghost Riders have another being inside of them.

    Yet the PS worked fine in all 3 scenarios.

    So its simply PIS with this evidence. There is no Logical (or explained) excuse at all.

    #22 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3448 posts) - - Show Bio
    @CadenceV2

    @ghost_rider1 said:

    @CadenceV2 The penance stare doesn't work on symbiotes because of the simple fact that the penance stare doesn't affect mentally unstable foes(aka symbiotes). Whenn someone is the host of a symbiote they are usually not themselves and there thoughts and actions are somewhat influenced by the symbiote. And also the symbiote and the human are two separate living beings. Which could also be a reason why it didn't affect venom

    I used to belive that but GR had one instance fighting a Symbiot (Venom) in Venoms Book. Madcap. Blaze, and Ketch have all been Penance Stare. Madcap is EXTREMELY Mentally unstable and both Ghost Riders have another being inside of them.

    Yet the PS worked fine in all 3 scenarios.

    So its simply PIS with this evidence. There is no Logical (or explained) excuse at all.

    Now that u mentioned it ....u have a point!
    #23 Posted by jashro44 (20803 posts) - - Show Bio

    @ghost_rider1 said:

    If u guys are ready for ppl to start voting then ill vote first. My vote goes to ghost rider obviously....I don't see BRB KO'ing a zarathos control rider. CadenceV2 has already posted the scans of ther spirit of vengeance beating Hell Lord level beings who are damn near skyfather level. One could argue that the magical properties that make up stormbreaker could do some damage to the ghost rider. But if the Sorcerer Supreme best attacks couldn't put down ghost rider then I doubt BRB would do any better. Zarathos has unlimited amounts of hellfire that he can create and manipulate in such a way that the only limit to his hellfire manioulative abilities is his imagination and he also have unbreakable chains that he can unleash all over his body that he can control at will....almost as if the chains had a mind of their own. To sum all of this up....ghost rider wins because I don't see BRB BFR'ing GR....I don't see him KO'ing or killing ghost rider in any way. And ghost rider have unlimited amounts of hellfire, chains, and the surekill Penance Stare

    All though its nice to see some reasoning your suppose to be voting based on who made the better argument. Just telling you if you were voting on who you think wins.

    #24 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @jashro44: And yours? The Suspense is killing me.

    #25 Posted by jashro44 (20803 posts) - - Show Bio

    @CadenceV2: i will have to read the debate in the morning.

    #26 Posted by jashro44 (20803 posts) - - Show Bio

    Slight edge to cadenceV2

    #27 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    Bump

    #28 Posted by cooljammy18 (934 posts) - - Show Bio

    Huge props to Cadence for showing that Ghost Rider actually has more powers than just Penance Stare, which people always used as an excuse for him winning. One of my favorite characters in comics.

    #29 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Floopay said:

    @CadenceV2:

    In no way, shape, or form did I state he beat or even harmed Galactus, I stated he shook off an attack from Galactus. And Madcap has resisted the Penance stare before, as has Venom AND Carnage, as well as Deacon. He's also used it to test people's innocence before IIRC. But anyway, lets gets this voted on.

    I'll call out a few extra users to vote as well.

    @laflux:

    @ghost_rider1:

    @TheCowman:

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    Cmon guys GR needs Respect!

    #30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    Bump

    #31 Posted by GhostRider2 (3281 posts) - - Show Bio

    Ghost Rider of course.Beta Ray Bill is not going to beat him and with Zarathos in control.......

    #32 Posted by Strider92 (16284 posts) - - Show Bio

    Sorry it took so long for me to see this guys. For some reason I didn't get a message telling me I was called out. I just happened to find this out by clicking on the thread. There's a big possibility no-one else knows they were called out either -.o bug maybe?

    Anyway very well debated guys and props to Cadence for bring up other powers apart from penance stare. People seem to consider GR a one trick pony which he isn't. I am giving the slight edge to Floopay as in my opinion he opened up quite a few potential win scenario's for BRB here.

    Well done guys and good luck.

    #33 Posted by laflux (15383 posts) - - Show Bio

    Yeah this was an excellent debate . I'm going for Cadence, but not by much. I feel its harder to argue GR as opposed to a popular character like BRB, and I feel that he used the point of GR not really being affected by Physical attacks very well with WWH, who is comparable to Thor and BRB. Again really close, and quite enjoyable. Lets hope I do anywhere near as well in my own debate.

    #34 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    Bump :) Keep it rolling!

    #35 Posted by KingAres109 (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

    Damn..I have to say thats one of the best debates between 2 guys on here.Its truly amazing.Lol..I cant even lie,as much as I dont Like Ghost Rider,your skills to back him up is great.And the say goes to Floopay.I never thought someone could put up a good arguement for BRB.Damn bro you did that.I know ppl are supposed to vote.But its like you cant go wrong either way.Hmmmmm.I hope I can say one or the other without being a jock strap rider.Lol...

    #36 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

    I vote (@CadenceV2: )

    #37 Posted by laflux (15383 posts) - - Show Bio

    @Killemall said:

    I vote (@CadenceV2: )

    Yeah though I think BRB will edge a fight between the two, CadenceV2 had alot more work to do. Oh BTW CitzenBane is back :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    #38 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

    Well friend I will let the votes flow but after re reading this a 3rd time Im really pleased with this debate. GG

    #39 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

    @CadenceV2:

    Yeah I'm pleased with the debate. BRB is one of my alltime favorites. Right up there with Quasar.

    Thanks for reading,

    Floopay

    #40 Edited by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

    I'd have to back Floopay on this one, as far as his view on BRB's skill set bringing something to the table that could give GR some trouble.

    Ghost Rider/Zarathos is an absolute beast! Yet when dealing with a being of pure heart & divine status like Beta Ray, those skills that make GR such a great threat in other situations ... may not be quite as effective here. Thor has shrugged off Hellfire before unscathed, so I don't doubt Bill could do the same - since I view them as essentially peers. I also don't think Penance Stare will have quite the effect GR will be looking for either. The point made in regards to the nobility & honor of Bill's soul, reminds me of when the purity of Thor's soul could not be tampered with by Mephisto. Even within Mephisto's Dark Realm, it caused him agony to be in its presence. I envision something along those lines playing out here. Granted, Ghost Rider may not be stricken with pain, but I've still never viewed the true intention of the Penance Stare to be useful in a situation like this.

    In terms of weaponry - Mjolnir & Stormbreaker are blessed by a Skyfather, designed with intent to battle Demons & Gods. In a sense, could that classify these as Holy Weapons? Granted I'm not entirely certain of it, but it's something to be questioned. They appear effective enough vs other Hell Lords or Elder Demons such as Mephisto, Hela, Surtur, and so forth. We know the hammer & purity of Asgardian lightning can harm beings on the level of Abstracts. Beings of vast power such as Galactus, Phoenix, Celestials, Glory, Chaos King, etc. ... have felt the effects.

    With that being said, I'm not sure who wins ... because I'm not even sure either one can harm the other to a vast degree. Ghost Rider unchained, with Zarathos at the helm, may be considered to scale on a higher level of overall power. But I believe that Beta Ray, based simply on the nature & design of his character, make this a difficult match for The Rider. Ghost Rider won't be down for long or destroyed outright by Bill, but not certain it will be an easy task for him to claim Bill's soul.

    Really well thought out, with great scans & great points, handled well on both sides. Just came across this & thought it deserved a bump.

    Much respect to both (CadenceV2) & (Floopay) on a flawless debate.