Deathstroke is composite. (which means all feats from Pre-52 and New 52 are applicable)
Morals Off
Random Encounter (which means standard gear)
Win by death or incapacitation
200 meters starting distance
The Batlefield is free of civilians
Battlefield
Unpopulated NYC
Neither character has knowledge of the Battlefield.
Spectators Please Read:
Hey, this is a CaV (Challenge a Viner). So, it's between two opponents. That means that spectators aren't necessarily commentators. Let the two Viners hash it out, then when it's all over you can add in your two cents. Oh and remember, when voting, you vote for who poses the better argument, not for which character you believe would win. If you can't follow these rules then maybe a mod can help you out. That's about it. The CaV will start shortly, if it isn't already commencing.
Alright. Let's get this party rockin', shall we? *cracks knuckles*
You've all seen it before--Slade vs Pete. The answer has always been the same coming from either side..."Spidey will have trouble because of his morals." Well not this time. This isn't regular ol' Spider-man. This one is superior.
Otto Octavius is a man who cheated death, but at a price. When he exchanged bodies with PeterParker, he gained the amazing skills of Spider-man--and all of Peter's memories. Otto finally understands Peter's mission of great responsibility.
Physicals
His abilities are fairly simple to grasp. Superior Spider-man has allof Spider-man's physical abilities, well, except his charm. He can jump three stories high in a single bound. He's traded blows with the Hulk and lifted tons at a time. He's battled and won against various speedsters (Quicksilver, Speed-Demon, ect.). He's been thrown around, cut, scraped, hit in the balls, and come out on top every time. He's dodged bullets, lasers, mechanical arms, everything. These are all his feats and we see them in every comic and every thread. The only one ability that I would particularly like to zero in on is his spider-sense. It's one of my favorites. For this one...
I'll let the scans do the talking...
Gear
SpOck has some nice gear. He redesigned the original suit. It's got some nice surprises. Descriptions will be captioned.
Standard webbing.Sharp talons......really sharp!He's got mechanical spider legs on his back for heavy lifting......or for offense.
The eyes in the suit have various uses. I don't think they are very important for this CaV. They're more use when he has prep. Now, about the talons on the gloves. When he scratches you nano-tracers are inserted into your clothing, or skin. So, he can track anyone he scratches. See?
Morals
I made this a section just in case there was any question on Superior Spidey's morals. Here are some scans of him torturinga half-demon. It actually made me lol...
Hahahaha I mean did you see the look on that guy's face when he pulled out the solar simulator? Wasn't it hilarious? No? Well, maybe I just have a bad sense of humor. Anyways, yeah. SpOck does not play games, especially with someone who makes threats. I rest my case for now, folks.
@marvel_boy2241: @eisenfauste: I'm actually quite jealous of this match, composite Deathstroke and SpOck is a VERY close fight and can go either way. May the best debater win.
@cable_extreme: Man, his idea actually came to me out of the blue. I think it's very interesting. Two ruthless characters going at it. You've seen me debate since post #1, man. Have I come far?
A career military man Slade Wilson enlisted in the military at a young age and worked his way up the hierarchy to become a Lieutenant Col. The U.S. military approached him to see if he was willing to test an experimental drug. He agreed and underwent chemical alterations to his body that increased his perception, speed, strength, durability, and reflexes. He has become the mercenary and assassin for hire we all know well in comic, Deathstroke The Terminator.
Alright now that his "origin" is out of the way lets get into why I think Slade has what it takes to beat Superior Spider-man.
Durability
I thought I would start with this because it is going to play a pivotal role in the fight to come.
His entire body is covered in a very durable armor called Nth metal that gives him some amazing damage soak and allows him to tank damage without much of a problem
As can be seen here he is at the epicenter of an explosion, besides being thrown to the ground he is without a scratch. It's to be noted after getting thrown by the explosion he kills two men with his pistol.
Tanks fire from twin miniguns, even though its firing thousands of rounds.
Seen here.
That's it for now, but as you can see his armor gives him incredible durability, and I haven't even shown you what his healing factor allows him to tank. Its sufficient to say that Ock is going to have an incredibly difficult time even hurting Slade.
Speed/Reflexes
I'll just lump these two departments because they are pretty similar though each has their own respective uses in battle.
Deathstroke is a casual bullet timer and has dodged bullets after they are fired
Seen here. He dodges two bullets point blank without effort.
One of my personal favorites from him, is effortlessly dodging a multitude of bullets fired his way.
Seen here not a single one touches him.
These showings put Slade in Sp0cks class in terms of raw relflexes and ability to dodge what is coming his way without a problem. Which means slade is going to be able to see "pete's" punches coming his way and give him the ability to dodge while at the same time countering with a weapon of his own
Moving onto his speed I have two solid showings that display his combat speed to a very fine degree
As seen here, he is effectively able to speed blitz black canary before she is able to scream, mind you her mouth is open and she has no thoughts of holding back. Meaning before she is able to make a sound, he is across the room and on top of her in the blink of an eye.
He also is able to move as fast as thought, which we have seen his reflexes and speed are a testament to this feat
Seen here. He moves as fast as he can think. Another one of his feats which puts him in spider-man's department of speed and reflexes.
Physicals
Being enhanced by the serum that turned him into a super soldieresque character it also gave him improved strength
He has the strength enough to effortlessly carry a rope that took 100 people to drag it to him which he simply picks up and runs with.
Seen here.
He has also ripped the door off of a plane flying at 40,000 feet, bear in mind that is 8000 pounds per square inch of force and he does it with one hand.
Seen here.
These two feats put him around a 4-5 tonner. Although not on Sp0ck's level they show that deathstroke is not lacking in the strength department.
Perception
I thought I would just drop one scan showing his feat of perception which shows how his upgrades allow him to stay one step ahead of his opponent. Does this give him an edge on Spider-man's spider sense. Not necessarily but it will allow him to keep up with spider-man once this becomes a close in fight, which it will inevitably become considering the setting of this battle
Seen here. He is able to deduce and perceive where flash will attack him next and acts accordingly to it.
Gear
I'll do a quick once over of his standard gear he usually carries into battle and post scans later of some of their feats
He usually has two pistol's
1. For the sake of things I'll say they are 92fs baretta pistol's considering the numerous pictures of his pistol's resemble them closely
2. He usually has several grenades on his person at a time, they are your standard fragmentation grenades
3. Promethium sword( will provide scans of its cutting power).
Strategy
All right that's enough scans of his feats for now, I'll post some more after you make a counter to this. Given the setting Sp0ck won't be able to swing into action quickly due to low lying buildings that will not let him pick up enough momentum to swing into action per say. This is going to give Slade time to test his enemy and formulate a quick plan. He is always one to gain an upper hand and will not hesitate a second racing forward and opening up with his pistol's to gauge his opponents strengths and weaknesses. With bullets flying at him Sp0ck will do what he does best, evade the bullets, fire a web onto a building to pull himself onto it to afford more cover. This will show slade several things which he will digest and prepare a response to
1. His opponent has the ability to dodge bullets without a problem
Slades counter: Use bullets as a suitable interference that will allow him to get close to his opponent to use his sword
2. He has the ability to grapple himself onto buildings, which will be his first impression considering he doesn't know his full webbing ability's just yet.
Slades counter: Draw his enemy into an open area, which there seem's to be a decent one near the town center, where he his unable to grapple away from his enemy and switch angle's of attack.
While Sp0ck is using cover to avoid bullets while at the same time moving up on his enemy to neutralize him, Slade will be going over possible way's to take his opponent down. Since Sp0ck is more akin to a morals off peter parker he enjoys close in combat and either physically beating his enemy down or utilizing his spider-legs to stab, rip, or throw his enemy. Once Sp0ck gets close in, slade keeping him on his toe's with his continual bullet spam, slade will opt for his promethium sword as a counter to Sp0cks spider legs. Once things get close in Slade has the speed, reflexes, and strength to use his sword to shear through Sp0ck. While on the other hand Slade can tank whatever Sp0ck hits him with, and will become a battle where Slade is simply waiting for him to tire and effectively end his life, something he has no qualms with.
Basically Slades quick thinking, incredible durability, speed, and promethium sword will allow him to come out on top in a fantastic fight, where slade will eventually tag Ock and tank whatever his thrown his way.
@marvel_boy2241: I'll agree with @wolverine08's assertion, that opener of yours is much better than what I've seen in the past of your debating style. More concise, more accurate and more amicable than before. Guess you have been learning on here since post #1...
I've seen durability from Slade's latest armor. I think it's questionable how much trouble SpOck would have with it. For one thing, it's important to note that many, many of Spidey's foes have been armored (See Rhino). Of course i'm not suggesting Spider-man could ever break off Rhino's armor. I'm merely suggesting armor doesn't always protect villains from him. But let me showyou what I mean.
Now, I know Beast Boy is powerful. However, I doubt that in that form, he is as strong or as fast as Spidey is physically. SpOck also has claws. Who knows what he would do if he knocks that mask off. Hell,
he might gouge Slade's eyes eye out.
Or maybe he might
punch his jaw off
Just one example, if you will. Please, have another.
It's hard to tell, but that is a silhouette of Batman and Deathstroke fighting. Ah yes, the infamous Batkick. Jokes aside, it's clear that Bats was capable of harming Slade, even in that armor. A well placed kick can get past the valuable durability.
Speed/Reflexes Deathstroke loses in this category.
Dodging bullets at point blank range is child's play for Spidey, especially since he was doing it as a child. Well, teenager. But still! I don't think I need a scan for that.
Dodging a barrage of gunfire is, again, a common re-occurrence among the Spider-man comics. It's something he does beyond effortlessly, thanks to spider-sense.
I swear it took me like 2 hours to find this scan. ASM #237.
But uh, If you want the numbers...
Forty times faster than a normal person. Last I heard Slade had reflexes 10 times faster than a normal person. Logically that would mean that Spidey's reflexes are 4 times faster than Slades. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard Slade is supposed to be 10 times better than a normal man.
OK I know what you are thinking it...DAT ASS.
These showings put Slade in Sp0cks class in terms of raw relflexes and ability to dodge what is coming his way without a problem.
No they don't. I already explained in my Opener that spider-sense is better than reflexes. It literally warns him of things to come. Things that have not happened just yet. Only few are capable of avoiding it, and those are mostly speedsters. Although fast, Slade is not a speedster. He simply will not touch Spidey.
Spider-man can blitz too. Only cooler.
Bask in the beauty...that's like 10 men. Slade is as strong as 10 men hmmm...
But seriously though, Slade has been touched as you can see in the "Durability" section. In order to touch him, you need skill, which SpOck has loads of. And if it wasn't for that armor, Slade would have been shot plenty of times. He was actually shot once, before he got the armor. Most of Spidey's reflex/speed feats are him not even trying hard.
Physicals Laughable
4-5 tons, really? I'm glad that you didn't try to argue from a strength standpoint. Spidey used his body as building support beam one time. He's got strength feats from all over the place. But his basestrength is like 10 tons. OK that's already double what Deathstroke is packin'.
That has to be over 50 tons.
Those arms are made of the third strongest material on Earth. Carbonium.
Slade is grossly outmatched in terms of strength.
Perception...?
Iirc he had prep in that Flash scan, right? He set up explosives and then waited, right? There is no way he is as fast as the Flash. Good feat nonetheless.
Gear Virtually Useless
1. For the sake of things I'll say they are 92fs baretta pistol's considering the numerous pictures of his pistol's resemble them closely
Tbh you can give him as many guns and bullets as you see fit. I've seen this guy carrying all sorts of assault rifles. In the end it's all useless anyway.
2. He usually has several grenades on his person at a time, they are your standard fragmentation grenades
Pulling out an explosive and attempting to use it one SpOck would be a mistake. Just look at what happened to this guy.
3. Promethium sword( will provide scans of its cutting power).
Another bad idea. No matter the cutting power of the sword, it's still a sword. Superior Spider-man is not just some giant airplane wing. If bullets wont touch him, then neither will a sword. Unless Slade moves his arms as fast as bullets.
Hmm, but the sword might be valuable for SpOck rather than Slade...
He could use his it's cutting power to his advantage and get past the armor, if his hands don't work, which they should. Sup-Spidey has a multitude of strategies. We already n=know he's fast and srong enough to rip it out of Slades hands.
Strategy Flawed
Given the setting Sp0ck won't be able to swing into action quickly due to low lying buildings that will not let him pick up enough momentum to swing into action per say.
This was never the case. I figured they would start 200 meters apart standing.
This is going to give Slade time to test his enemy and formulate a quick plan. He is always one to gain an upper hand and will not hesitate a second racing forward and opening up with his pistol's to gauge his opponents strengths and weaknesses.
Spider-man runs up, dodging the bullets as he does so, and punches Slade in the face. SpOck doesn't punch his hardest because Slade looks like a regular mercenary. After the first punch doesn't work. Slade probably brags or say something that pisses SpOck off. Slade decides to switch to his favorite weapon, the Promethean Sword after he realizes that his bullets are useless. Big mistake, because as he reaches for it, Sup-Spidey snatches it out of his hand with ease and stabs Deathstroke in the arm with it. Wilson screams in agony and as he does, SpOck punches his mask, harder this time. Slade's face is revealed. With his claws, Sup-Spidey slowly cuts Deathstrokes tongue out. "Peeease" Slade begs. Without a tongue he can't enunciate his Ls. He says "Kill me!" with his eyes. SpOck complies.
With bullets flying at him Sp0ck will do what he does best, evade the bullets, fire a web onto a building to pull himself onto it to afford more cover. This will show slade several things which he will digest and prepare a response to
Refer to the scans above. Spidey does not go up into the building when ever he is under fire. In fact, it's his villains that try to go up higher in order to avoid him. Spidey is just as effective on the ground as he is in the air. In this fight, he wont give Slade time to think.
1. His opponent has the ability to dodge bullets without a problem
Slades counter: Use bullets as a suitable interference that will allow him to get close to his opponent to use his sword
He wont have to worry about that. Sup-Spidey will have no problem getting close.
While Sp0ck is using cover to avoid bullets while at the same time moving up on his enemy to neutralize him, Slade will be going over possible way's to take his opponent down. Since Sp0ck is more akin to a morals off peter parker he enjoys close in combat and either physically beating his enemy down or utilizing his spider-legs to stab, rip, or throw his enemy. Once Sp0ck gets close in, slade keeping him on his toe's with his continual bullet spam, slade will opt for his promethium sword as a counter to Sp0cks spider legs. Once things get close in Slade has the speed, reflexes, and strength to use his sword to shear through Sp0ck. While on the other hand Slade can tank whatever Sp0ck hits him with, and will become a battle where Slade is simply waiting for him to tire and effectively end his life, something he has no qualms with.
SpOck wont take cover from bullets. I've never seen that. He usually goes in even while a villain is spraying. Bullets almost never touch him. Here lemme show you what I mean...
Superior Spider-man is physically superior than Deathstroke in every way. Deathsroke's armor wont get him a win. I've shown that in scans. Slade does think incredibly fast but that would only be useful in preparation. No strategies exist for Slade to win here.
I'll have more for you all after the rebuttal. @eisenfauste
That image is from The Man Who Killed The Ravagers. Deathstoke was toying with the entire team of superhumans and metahumans and he still punked them all pretty effortlessly. He was toying with Beast Boy when he got sucker punched he goes on to dodge his next attacks without a problem
Seen here
This is to say the least a pretty low showing of Deathstrokes reaction skills when Beast Boy has never shown to be able to move faster than a bullet or even fast enough to catch Deathstroke off guard whether he was monologuing or not. Another thing I would like to point out is Beast Boy got a lucky hit in considering the only reason Slades mask was torn off was because one of his claws found the seam and fractured the front of his mask something Sp0ck won't be doing because,
1. He rarely uses his 1 inch hand talons in a slashing manner
2. He has never fought slade before and therefore doesn't know about the seams in his armor
3. Otto is heavily impressed with pete's physicals and always looks for a chance to use blunt force or even his suit "spider legs" to get up close and personal with an opponent and literally beat them down or stab them.
Getting his mask off in this fight is not feasible considering we have consistently seen Sp0ck use his fists in fights or kicks to beat an opponent, I don't see why this fight would be any different. Slade's mask isn't going to be ripped off in this fight.
He has reacted to Kid Flash twice in the same comic and was able to do so via his enhancements. Granted Kid Flash was not at his full potential he was still running at blur speeds and he attempted to blitz Slade twice but was stopped.
He even states its his enhancements that let give him the boost to react to KF
It's hard to tell, but that is a silhouette of Batman and Deathstroke fighting. Ah yes, the infamous Batkick. Jokes aside, it's clear that Bats was capable of harming Slade, even in that armor. A well placed kick can get past the valuable durability.
1. Deathstroke was pumped with venom at the time that was conflicting with the chemical agents that already were injected into his body to make him superhuman, he was hit by a bloodlusted wolfman beast boy and all it did was make him smile. As can be seen seen stated Deathstroke--exhibiting the same side effects as Two-Face and the others it is apparent Slade isn't at full potential and the venom is conflicting with his durability and pain tolerance. Slade has been hit by far worse without complaint.
Here is a pretty decent durability feat to his name
Slade Gets a submarine dropped on him and he continues to fight after being hit by it.
2. Sp0ck has no martial skill's to his name since he is inhabiting peter's body whom relied on his agility and reflexes to get him through fights. So it is sufficient to say that Otto won't be pulling a random martial arts kick out of the bag and going for any possible "weak" areas on Slade when we have seen Sp0ck consistently hit enemies straight on and get up close and brawl with his enemies.
Speed/Reflexes Deathstroke loses in this category.
Dodging bullets at point blank range is child's play for Spidey, especially since he was doing it as a child. Well, teenager. But still! I don't think I need a scan for that.
Dodging a barrage of gunfire is, again, a common re-occurrence among the Spider-man comics. It's something he does beyond effortlessly, thanks to spider-sense.
I swear it took me like 2 hours to find this scan. ASM #237.
But uh, If you want the numbers...
Forty times faster than a normal person. Last I heard Slade had reflexes 10 times faster than a normal person. Logically that would mean that Spidey's reflexes are 4 times faster than Slades. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard Slade is supposed to be 10 times better than a normal man.
1. The scan clearly states that Peter canoperate as much as 40x a normal person to dazzle a stronger foe. Otto is arrogant and overly confident of his new abilities, as far as he can tell he is facing a regular human who has guns and a sword. Not much of a threat there.....or so he thinks. Otto isn't going to be going all out in this fight moral's off implies he has no problem with killing or severely wounding a foe (not that Sp0ck has had a problem with this before). So he isn't going to step into the fight and ramp his reflexes up to 40x, this fight will be over before Otto realizes how dangerous Slade is.
2. Slade already has reactions and speed that is significantly above a normal person as can be seen in his fight with a team of highly trained and heavily armed mercenaries. By the way this is a depowered Slade without enhancements
Gallery
Now as can be seen by the next scan he states what the enhancements have done to his body
Seen here he states that it increased his reactions, significantly above a normal human, Tenfold.
As can be seen above and from my previous scans Slade, depowered, had the reactions to dodge a gunfire blasts and the speed to take out a whole hit team before they themselves could take him down. So as we can see without enhancements he already has reactions that are several times that of a normal human being. As the scan above shows the enhancements increase those reactions 10x which puts him in spider-mans department especially since spider-man doesn't go all out and ramp up his reflexes to 40x that of a human. And we know that slade can casually dodge bullets, react to Kid Flash, and has the speed to jump between moving fan blades that are moving significantly faster than 3750 rpm (which is the legal non industrial rpm speed of fans that are allowed to the public, the one seen above in the scan is industrial scale and moves at much faster speeds that 3750 rpm). What is most notable about the scan above is that the fans form a solid wall between him and the energy blasts that move as fast as bullets or faster.
Deathstroke doesn't lose in this category he is on par or very nearly close to Spider-man's reaction time. Which will allow slade to hang with Otto in this fight.
For some reason my computer won't let me quote you anymore :/, I'll try to be clear in what I am countering.
Perception:
What I was trying to show by that scan is Slade wilson's uncanny ability to read an opponent in any given situation and counter their move. That scan doesn't show that slade is faster than Flash but he did not need to be considering he knew what he was going to do next.
How do you think he hangs with Kid Flash in a fight, it's not just his reflexes, which give him an edge, but it also is in conjunction with his ability deduce what his opponent will do next in a fight. Here is another of his fights with Kid Flash
Kid Flash is all over him in the fight but as you can see Deathstroke reads his movements, feints, and kicks him.
What exactly does this mean then? Well in conjunction with Slade being able to move literally as fast as he thinks, his ability (which he has consistently shown), to out think opponents and read their moves in fights is going to give him the edge once the battle turns to h2h. He is going to take some hits at first, but once the fight drags on (thanks to his durability) Slade is going to start reading and predicting where Otto will be next and once this happens Otto is going to get a Sword through his midriff.
Gear:
I was simply citing what Deathstroke will have on him in this fight, the bullets will provide some nice interference to keep Superior Spider-man on his toes.
Grenades: He only uses them when a situation gets desperate, which I don't see him using.
Promethium sword: This will be his most useful item when the fight becomes more serious
I'll just drop a scan of its cutting power, though you seem to take my word for it.
He cuts right through a military jets wing without any effort.
You seem to have this idea that Slades arms don't move fast enough as bullets here's two scans that disprove that idea
Scan 1.
Moves fast enough to deflect two bullets, this shows his speed to move his arm faster than the bullets in order to block them
Scan 2
Deathstroke moves fast enough to deflect a bullet on the edge of his sword, again showing his speed and precision with the weapon
By your own admission if all it takes is moving your arms as fast as bullets in order to tag Spider-man, Slade moves his arms faster than bullets, than Slade has what it takes to take on Otto in a close in fight. But I believe its going to be multiple things that slade has going for him in order to win this fight. But by these scans Deathstroke has the speed to take on Otto in h2h and tag him. I will get around to what all Slade has going for him to win this fight in my summary.
Superior Spider-man won't be taking Slade's sword from him in this fight considering I have shown how Slade is in Spider-man's class in terms of reflexes and speed.
Strategy Flawed.........Hardly.
I simply saw Otto swinging up on a building and getting closer to Slade via rooftops as one scenario.
The plan won't change if Otto is racing straight toward him on the ground or on a building, his pistol is suitable interference so that Superior won't have a straight shot at simply running up to him. Regardless if Superior is running up to him or not, he is a master tactician and thinks quick enough in a fight to formulate a plan. If you want a straight up brawl Deathstroke is more than willing to oblige you. Slade will holster his pistols and in a flash draw his sword even before Superior gets close. As I have shown you his reflexes and speed enough to dodge bullets easily, block bullets, jump through blades spinning fast enough to form a wall between him and energy blasts as well as be able to react to Kid Flash means that Otto isn't going to easily grab the sword out of his hands.
Also Otto wouldn't do that in character considering he has consistently shown to enjoy using his fists and brute strength in a battle. He isn't going for his sword because he doesn't know Slade's durability which I have shown is far superior to Otto's and far durable enough to tank pete's punches which at best have been stated to be able to wreck cars. I have shown you Slade tanking an Ohio-Class submarine (it looked like close enough to one in the panel) which weighs somewhere from 16,000-18,000 tons. Spider-mans fists are going to be laughed off with ease.
Summary
Slade will win this fight based on several things
Durability on a scale far above Spider-man that will allow him to tank whatever is thrown his way
Reflexes/speed that puts him in or close to Spider-mans class
Ability to out think an opponent in battle and deduce their next move
Promethium sword which lends him the ability to finish superior Spider-man
@marvel_boy2241 Had to rush some things near the end, but as is your up.
@marvel_boy2241 I'll have a post up sometime tomorrow. How about since you opened I'll close. I'll drop a post about this, you drop 1 more and I provide a counter to that and then we open it for voting.
He was toying with Beast Boy when he got sucker punched he goes on to dodge his next attacks without a problem
It's pretty clear that Deathstroke didn't see the hit coming. He underestimated Beast Boy, which is something he does often with opponents. I see this as a good explanation for why DS got hit in the first place.
Beast Boy got a lucky hit in considering the only reason Slades mask was torn off was because one of his claws found the seam and fractured the front of his mask something Sp0ck won't be doing because,
No lucky shot. Based on scans it's pretty clear that durability wont hold off SpOck for long.
1. He rarely uses his 1 inch hand talons in a slashing manner
How else would he use his claws? This is simply wrong, he uses them strategically and offensively. These are the instances that I remember...
2. He has never fought slade before and therefore doesn't know about the seams in his armor
OK? BB hadn't fought DS before either and look what happened. Nonetheless, the mask coming off had little to do with seams because you can clearly see debris that broke off from the mask. It took mostly blunt force to break it off.
3. Otto is heavily impressed with pete's physicals and always looks for a chance to use blunt force or even his suit "spider legs" to get up close and personal with an opponent and literally beat them down or stab them.
Incorrect. SpOck is quite used to the powers by the middle of the series. SpOck uses the spider legs less often than the claws. The spider legs seem useful for lifting and facing multiple opponents. He wouldn't use them with a single gunner or a swordsman.
Getting his mask off in this fight is not feasible
Yes it is. That suit isn't as durable as you claim. People have evaded it before. SpOck is no exception. He has tons of force that can be exerted from his fists.
...Really? An old man? This is who people think can beat Flash?
He has reacted to Kid Flash twice in the same comic and was able to do so via his enhancements.
Reacting to a weak, and inexperienced Kid Flash after you've had prep is not impressive. Anyways, Spider-man reacts to speedsters too--without prep. Spidey has plenty more reaction and speed feats than DS--a guy that has to wear armor to protect himself from bullets.
1. Deathstroke was pumped with venom at the time that was conflicting with the chemical agents that already were injected into his body to make him superhuman, he was hit by a bloodlusted wolfman beast boy and all it did was make him smile. As can be seen seen stated Deathstroke--exhibiting the same side effects as Two-Face and the others it is apparent Slade isn't at full potential and the venom is conflicting with his durability and pain tolerance. Slade has been hit by far worse without complaint.
Nope. The venom would have had no affect on the armor's durability. The only thing the venom would have done at that time is cause Slade to lose his fear of death. The scan is legit. Also DS is capable of pain as you can see from my first rebuttal. And without complaint?
The guy doesn't go out patrolling every night the way Spider-man has to. His body needs plenty and plenty of rest. This is what I was saying about prep. Most of Spidey's wins are random encounters, unlike DS who gets god-knows-how-long of prep. He goes killing on his own timeunless it's family business.
Here is a pretty decent durability feat to his name
Slade Gets a submarine dropped on him and he continues to fight after being hit by it.
See, this is what I was talking about.
You can clearly see that the blunt force of the blast was able to tear off his mask, knock him unconscious (temporarily), and damage his entire suit severely. He didn't really "continue to fight". He ran away to try to look for a way to win, which he did. He acted similarly with Beast Boy.
2. Sp0ck has no martial skill's to his name since he is inhabiting peter's body whom relied on his agility and reflexes to get him through fights. So it is sufficient to say that Otto won't be pulling a random martial arts kick out of the bag and going for any possible "weak" areas on Slade when we have seen Sp0ck consistently hit enemies straight on and get up close and brawl with his enemies.
He isn't any more of a brawler than Peter was before Way of the Spider. The point of the scan was to demonstrate that anyone with enough skill can hurt DS--even with his precious armor. While SpOck may not be a martial artist, he is very familiar with the human body. After all he does have an honorary doctorate in biochemistry and is a super-genius.
1. The scan clearly states that Peter canoperate as much as 40x a normal person to dazzle a stronger foe. Otto is arrogant and overly confident of his new abilities, as far as he can tell he is facing a regular human who has guns and a sword. Not much of a threat there.....or so he thinks. Otto isn't going to be going all out in this fight moral's off implies he has no problem with killing or severely wounding a foe (not that Sp0ck has had a problem with this before). So he isn't going to step into the fight and ramp his reflexes up to 40x, this fight will be over before Otto realizes how dangerous Slade is.
To be more specific it states "Since my reflexes can operate as much as forty times faster than a normal person's, I often use them to dazzle a much stronger foe!" This in no way suggests that Spidey picks what level his reflexes operate. That's not even how they work. And as far as DS knows, he's fighting a guy in red and blue spandex. It's clear that after the start of the battle, they will both know one another are super-human, and will then act accordingly. And you're forgetting about spider-sense which warns him of danger beforeit happens.
2. Slade already has reactions and speed that is significantly above a normal person as can be seen in his fight with a team of highly trained and heavily armed mercenaries. By the way this is a depowered Slade without enhancements
Slade, depowered, had the reactions to dodge a gunfire blasts and the speed to take out a whole hit team before they themselves could take him down. So as we can see without enhancements he already has reactions that are several times that of a normal human being. As the scan above shows the enhancements increase those reactions 10x which puts him in spider-mans department especially since spider-man doesn't go all out and ramp up his reflexes to 40x that of a human. And we know that slade can casually dodge bullets, react to Kid Flash, and has the speed to jump between moving fan blades that are moving significantly faster than 3750 rpm (which is the legal non industrial rpm speed of fans that are allowed to the public, the one seen above in the scan is industrial scale and moves at much faster speeds that 3750 rpm). What is most notable about the scan above is that the fans form a solid wall between him and the energy blasts that move as fast as bullets or faster.
He had peak human reflexes. That doesn't mean that if you multiply that by ten he's faster or as fast as Spider-man. Based on his feats, he clearly isn't. Admittedly, DS is often seen PIS-ing. Why would a character that can get hit by Batman, be tagging Flash? It doesn't make any logical sense. And you keep saying "ramp up his reflexes", which isn't how his reflexes work. When he said "can" he meant that sometimes a threat requires those kinds of reflexes, other times they don't. For example a robber requires less effort on his body to react than Quicksilver. Potentially he could react at 40x faster but his body doesn't need to, so he doesn't. It's not a choice. That's why they're reflexes.
Let's assume that DS was twice as fast as the average man before the procedure (BP) that means that he is 20x faster AP (after procedure). So already, if Spider-man operates at half his full potential he'd still be Slade's equal. Deathstroke is outmatched.
...Sooo we got dodging a bullet that's damn-near touching his back. Dancing around in electricity. Annnd having a conversation, while upside down, while dodging multiple bullets, while punching two guys out, all in mid-air.
Perception: Flawed, still.
What I was trying to show by that scan is Slade wilson's uncanny ability to read an opponent in any given situation and counter their move. That scan doesn't show that slade is faster than Flash but he did not need to be considering he knew what he was going to do next.
...Because he had prep. He knewabout Flash. It wasn't a random encounter. That's not really advanced perception. Also, Flash is FTL, it's PIS when something like that can happen. Flash wasn't going full on.
How do you think he hangs with Kid Flash in a fight, it's not just his reflexes, which give him an edge, but it also is in conjunction with his ability deduce what his opponent will do next in a fight. Here is another of his fights with Kid Flash
Kid Flash is all over him in the fight but as you can see Deathstroke reads his movements, feints, and kicks him.
Well in conjunction with Slade being able to move literally as fast as he thinks, his ability (which he has consistently shown), to out think opponents and read their moves in fights is going to give him the edge once the battle turns to h2h. He is going to take some hits at first, but once the fight drags on (thanks to his durability) Slade is going to start reading and predicting where Otto will be next and once this happens Otto is going to get a Sword through his midriff.
He out-thought a teenager, who he had ample time to prep for, and of whom he has studied and fought multiple times...That doesn't put him above a super-genius, who has reflexes 40x faster than the average person, the ability to lift tons and tons, and a body that has dealt with all sorts of foes. I'm telling you, once SpOck realizes that DS is wearing heavy armor, he's gonna " rampup" the hits. That's tons of force.
Gear: Still useless.
I was simply citing what Deathstroke will have on him in this fight, the bullets will provide some nice interference to keep Superior Spider-man on his toes.
He's always on his toes regardless of bullets. They wont even be a distraction because of spider-sense.
Promethium sword: This will be his most useful item when the fight becomes more serious
He cuts right through a military jets wing without any effort.
It doesn't matter how fancy the sword is. It's still a sword.
Moves fast enough to deflect two bullets, this shows his speed to move his arm faster than the bullets in order to block them
*sigh* Deflecting bullets doesn't mean that you are literally as fast as bullets, or that your arms move literally as fast as bullets. Daredevil has peak human reflexes. He deflects bullets. Batman too. That's street level stuff. Also if you look at the third panel you can see DS getting hit by one of the bullets, but the armor saves himas usual.
Deathstroke moves fast enough to deflect a bullet on the edge of his sword, again showing his speed and precision with the weapon
By your own admission if all it takes is moving your arms as fast as bullets in order to tag Spider-man, Slade moves his arms faster than bullets, than Slade has what it takes to take on Otto in a close in fight.
I already explained why deflecting bullets ≠ the ability to move your limbs as fast as bullets. By your logic anyone that can deflect a bullet, can hand with Spidey because they must be as fast as a bullet.
Superior Spider-man won't be taking Slade's sword from him in this fight considering I have shown how Slade is in Spider-man's class in terms of reflexes and speed.
No he's not. But lt's assume we don;t know though. What we can say for sure is DS is tremendously weaker than SpOck in terms of strength. If SSM can get his hands on that sword, he will have no problem with snatching out of his hands, for sure. Let's establish that first.
StrategyFlawed.........Hardly. No it's flawed.
I simply saw Otto swinging up on a building and getting closer to Slade via rooftops as one scenario.
The plan won't change if Otto is racing straight toward him on the ground or on a building, his pistol is suitable interference so that Superior won't have a straight shot at simply running up to him. Regardless if Superior is running up to him or not, he is a master tactician and thinks quick enough in a fight to formulate a plan. If you want a straight up brawl Deathstroke is more than willing to oblige you. Slade will holster his pistols and in a flash draw his sword even before Superior gets close. As I have shown you his reflexes and speed enough to dodge bullets easily, block bullets, jump through blades spinning fast enough to form a wall between him and energy blasts as well as be able to react to Kid Flash means that Otto isn't going to easily grab the sword out of his hands.
OK. As long as you know that the bullets might as well not be their. SpOck will avoid them and stay his course regardless of DS accuracy. It's pretty clear that SpOck can and will tag DS. That being said, he has tons of strength behind his arms. Based on scans provided, he has enough strength to break the mask or some other part of the armor. Any weapon DS draws will be useless...for him. Like I said, SSM is much faster than him and much stronger too. He can easily take the sword.
Also Otto wouldn't do that in character considering he has consistently shown to enjoy using his fists and brute strength in a battle. He isn't going for his sword because he doesn't know Slade's durability which I have shown is far superior to Otto's and far durable enough to tank pete's punches which at best have been stated to be able to wreck cars. I have shown you Slade tanking an Ohio-Class submarine (it looked like close enough to one in the panel) which weighs somewhere from 16,000-18,000 tons. Spider-mans fists are going to be laughed off with ease.
Brute strength is exactly what it will take to knock the mask off. He might not know the swords ability but he will see DS durability right of the bat. If his fists simply wont do (which I've proven they will) SSM will be at a shortage of weapons. In which case he will try anything that might work, in the closest vicinity, aka the sword. And he didn't even take submarine full on, but what he did take, nearly destroyed the armor completely. Oh and SpOck will enjoy carving DS's face, because in character, DS is a bragger. You saw what he did to that half-demon.
Summary
Superior Spider-man will win this fight based on several things
grossly outmatching Deathstroke in terms of strength (based on scans)
grossly outmatching Deathstroke in terms of speed and reflex (based on scans)
basic combat skills that when grouped with the above make a deadly opponent
overall ruthlessness and hatred of those that oppose him
It's pretty clear, if you look at the scans, that I have a clear abundance of feats backing up what I'm saying. Every claim i make has scans that affirm it. That being said.
I hope that wasn't too much of a read for you guys. @eisenfauste
@marvel_boy2241 I'll have a post up sometime tomorrow. How about since you opened I'll close. I'll drop a post about this, you drop 1 more and I provide a counter to that and then we open it for voting.
So we both do a closer. You go last? Ok yeah your plans good. We'll do that.
He was toying with Beast Boy when he got sucker punched he goes on to dodge his next attacks without a problem
It's pretty clear that Deathstroke didn't see the hit coming. He underestimated Beast Boy, which is something he does often with opponents. I see this as a good explanation for why DS got hit in the first place.
He was monologuing with a long time adversary. Regardless this is one of his low showings considering he has dodged point blank bullets, jumped between moving fan blades, reacted to speed blitzes from Kid Flash etc etc.
No lucky shot. Based on scans it's pretty clear that durability wont hold off SpOck for long.
Yes it actually was considering that was the only time beast boy has been able to actually get a talon in a seam and actually break the mask. If you didn't know Slade Wilson has been a long time enemy of the Teen Titans and has a multitude of fights with them and considering in every fight Slade has knocked him around with utter ease while at the same time stomping other titans.
Nope. The venom would have had no affect on the armor's durability. The only thing the venom would have done at that time is cause Slade to lose his fear of death. The scan is legit. Also DS is capable of pain as you can see from my first rebuttal. And without complaint?
Batman is a skilled martial artist who employed a kick to a joint in Slades armor that elicited a yowl of pain. The venom was affecting his pain tolerance and durability considering Slade has laughed off a blast from Starfire straight to his chest. To put it in perspective her blasts have shattered car's and he takes it without a sound, mind you the blast penetrated the armor as can be seen by splintered armor pieces flying in all directions.
Seen here
He also has been hit by people around batman's strength level or higher than his without yelling in pain. It was another low showing of Slades pain tolerance which could be attributed to the venom. Considering Batman was talking about the side affects of the venom.
How else would he use his claws? This is simply wrong, he uses them strategically and offensively. These are the instances that I remember...
And I could show you a plethora of instances where he uses his fist's much more than his claws. Regardless Sp0ck's talons cannot and will not cut through slades armor. In order to bypass his suit's durability with a slashing weapon i.e. talons, it takes a ridiculous amount of skill and precision in order to literally slice between the seams of his armor.
Gallery
So even if Sp0ck somehow bypassed his suit Slade will laugh off the hit and continue to fight as if nothing has happened due to his ridiculous pain tolerance. But he won't be bypassing the suit with talons considering he is both unskilled in terms of slashing or stabbing and also not precise enough to slice along the seams. Sp0ck slashing horizontally and wildly is a testament to this.
OK? BB hadn't fought DS before either and look what happened. Nonetheless, the mask coming off had little to do with seams because you can clearly see debris that broke off from the mask. It took mostly blunt force to break it off.
Incorrect. Deathstroke is a long time enemy of the Teen Titans and has had a multitude of battles with the TT Beast Boy included. Here are three separate instances where beast boy has had run ins with Slade.
Gallery
Regardless of his many fights with Slade he hasn't gained knowledge of weak area's to exploit on Deathstrokes armor. The shattered pieces are the area's that directly latch onto the front face mask of his helmet. It was wrenched off by the point of a long talon getting between the seam and ripping the mask off. If it was a punch that shattered the mask than yes, blunt force damage. But it was not it was a wrenching motion.
Yes it is. That suit isn't as durable as you claim. People have evaded it before. SpOck is no exception. He has tons of force that can be exerted from his fists.
First off lets tackle pete's best physical punching feats of him going all out. Since he is inhabiting Pete's body he can only call on Pete's strength and nothing more.
Here is Peter going all out on none other than Wolverine. As stated by him he is hitting Wolverine with everything he has which is enough to break car's. You can't argue with his physical punching power and strength level which from the time of this incident to current comics hasn't changed by much if at all. So far punches that can shatter car's are going to be easily shrugged off by Slades armor which has tanked building busting bombs, multiple high calibre rounds, hits from much stronger opponents etc.
Gallery
Now to address the scan's
1. First scan is Slade getting his armor shattered by Lobo, someone who has the strength and punching power to hurt Superman on a consistent basis. But to put some context on this the Lobo fighting Slade was a clone of his former self and not only that it is shown on panel that Lobo's power fluctuates heavily so that feat is unquantifiable considering we don't know his exact strength level. But if it means anything the lobo on panel was casually putting his hand through armored mercenaries heads. Here is the scan of his fluctuating power level's
Seen here.
So far you have shown me a character with x amount of strength breaking slades mask which btw Slade tanked several of his punches in that comic.
2. Second scan is Deadborn who has the strength to hit through car's. In this scan he barely cracked the mask while popping the cover off his helmet. This is someone who has shown much more powerful hitting power than Pete can summon up i.e. smashing through a car while not even going all out.
Seen here.
3. *Sigh* In this scan a high ranking member in the Sasukade clan used a his high amount of skill and precision to push his blade through Slades seams like I have already shown you. Sp0ck doesn't have a sword does he? Nor does he have the skill or precision with a blade to replicate this feat so I don't see why you are bringing it up.
The guy doesn't go out patrolling every night the way Spider-man has to. His body needs plenty and plenty of rest. This is what I was saying about prep. Most of Spidey's wins are random encounters, unlike DS who gets god-knows-how-long of prep. He goes killing on his own time unless it's family business.
Deathstroke does not need plenty of rest and has his fair share of random encounters with opponents. As can be seen by this scan he takes on 3 jobs in two weeks and pushes his healing factor to the limit by not sleeping. Slade also prep's to take on teams that would manhandle pete in a random encounter and possibly Slade himself for that matter, i.e. the Teen Titans. By your logic Batman can only win most of his encounters with villains if he has prep when he has shown the contrary as has slade. One of Slades random encounters was with Legacy who has the strength to throw a nuclear submarine, he also held him at bay and finished the job he was on.
Seen here. Slade doesn't need lots of rest as you suggest to finish jobs or fight for that matter.
Reacting to a weak, and inexperienced Kid Flash after you've had prep is not impressive. Anyways, Spider-man reacts to speedsters too--without prep. Spidey has plenty more reaction and speed feats than DS--a guy that has to wear armor to protect himself from bullets.
Kid Flash has the same strength when Slade first met him all the way to current Kid Flash IIRC. Slade tagged Kid Flash twice in that encounter without trouble due to his reflexes while Kid Flash was moving at blur speeds. Slade also tagged Kid Flash yet again in one of their later encounters after he had become an everyday enemy of the Teen Titans
Seen here.
How would Slade even prep to dodge Kid Flash when he doesn't even know which angle or speed he will be attacked at? Slade didn't prep to dodge Kid Flash he used his reflexes to dodge him which we have seen him consistently do in their fights. You prep to take on a team, you don't and can't prep to dodge a speedster. In that fight Slades prep pretty much only included bringing a comrade that was as enhanced as he is.
Now to get to your scans
1. First scan is Pete with the symbiote which gives him an amp more than usual in that comic arc "Back in Black". So that feat isn't applicable.
2. Pete holds out his arm where the speedster will be hence "he can't move through solid objects". Wolverine has done the same thing someone who doesn't have the reaction speed of spider-man or speed. With the second scan, disregarding the first, you simply have shown me one instance of Pete putting his arm out and moving where QS is going to be he isn't fast enough to actually tag him. Same as the scan above Slade kicks Kid Flash based on his quick reflexes and hitting his opponent where he will be next, regardless it does take fast reflexes to hit a speedster where they will be. Slade has done the same when he tripped kid flash with his bo-staff because he knew where he was going to be next.
This scan really only shows that Slade and pete have equal and comparable showings against speedsters though Slade has more consistent ones. All in all it doesn't mean Sp0ck will be any faster than slade based on Pete's showings with 1 or 2 speedsters.
Seen here. He tags a speedster and unless you think wolverine is=to pete in terms of reflexes...............
DS--a guy that has to wear armor to protect himself from bullets.
Slade has tanked bullets that have punched through his armor and survived you know that right? And Sp0ck without armor would be highly vulnerable to bullet's considering he didn't survive getting shot by one so I don't see the point of this. Regardless Slade's HF has shown to heal his body from bullet wounds, getting stabbed by swords, or his face pulverized by enemies, Alexand Luthor from Earth 3, that smack around the likes of Bizarro and Ultraman both of whom are opponents that are on par with superman in terms of strength and speed, and durability not to mention both have given Superman good fights or even defeated him.
Slade without armor is much more durable than Sp0ck is.
You can clearly see that the blunt force of the blast was able to tear off his mask, knock him unconscious (temporarily), and damage his entire suit severely. He didn't really "continue to fight". He ran away to try to look for a way to win, which he did. He acted similarly with Beast Boy.
The fact that he survived getting a 18,000 ton submarine tossed on him, Sp0ck would be splattered, is a testament to his durability. This comment does not counter the fact that Slade has way better durability than Sp0ck by a massive amount. And the fact that his armor was still intact bar cracks and pieces missing shows that nothing Sp0ck has at his disposal in terms of punching power is going to breach his suit in the slightest. He also did continue to fight if you look at the scans
Gallery
1. First scan shows him being stabbed by someone who is superior to Sp0ck by a ridiculous margin
2. Second scan shows him pulling the sword out of his shoulder blocking a hit from Legacy. Good endurance feat for slade considering he almost has his arm severed and he keeps going.
3. Third scan shows him putting a bomb on Legacy and racing toward his objective. He ultimately amped his sword with energy from the sub to take out Legacy.
So......yes he did actually continue fighting and took out an opponent superior to him in everyway by being a tactical genius. This was again a random encounter. He also didn't run away from a bloodlusted Beast Boy he casually dodges BB's repeated attempts to kill him until BB knocked a pillar on himself.
He isn't any more of a brawler than Peter was before Way of the Spider. The point of the scan was to demonstrate that anyone with enough skill can hurt DS--even with his precious armor. While SpOck may not be a martial artist, he is very familiar with the human body. After all he does have an honorary doctorate in biochemistry and is a super-genius.
By "brawler" I meant his obvious lack of martial skill. Sp0ck uses superior strength and reflexes to beat his opponents he does not use martial skill. In all of his fights he bludgeons his opponents into unconciousness or slashes them. And like I said Slade has taken a lot of worse punishment from far stronger people without complaint. Being familiar with the human body means zilch. Unless he displays a familiarity to the point he points out weaknesses to the human body and actively capitalizes on them via pressure point or kinetic damage means that his knowledge about the human is not helping him in anyway against Slade.
To be more specific it states "Since my reflexes can operate as much as forty times faster than a normal person's, I often use them to dazzle a much stronger foe!" This in no way suggests that Spidey picks what level his reflexes operate. That's not even how they work. And as far as DS knows, he's fighting a guy in red and blue spandex. It's clear that after the start of the battle, they will both know one another are super-human, and will then act accordingly. And you're forgetting about spider-sense which warns him of danger beforeit happens.
You're missing the context to the scan you posted. It clearly states can operate as much as 40x faster than a human. Meaning going full out he can move faster by 40x the normal human speed. It does not mean he consistently does so which is why the writer is using can to show the reader what Spider-man can do at full potential. He can chose how fast he reacts to an opponent dictating the necessity of said reaction. An example being if someone throws a ball to him if he moves at 40x his hand will be waiting several seconds for the ball to reach the area to be caught. Versus a punch being thrown by a known superhuman moving at insane speeds which necessitates a quicker reaction. I agree Sp0ck will act accordingly once he see's how dangerous Slade actually is, but then it's only going to be a matter of time before Sp0ck get's tagged by Slades sword.
Spider-sense doesn't mean a thing when you are facing a fast and skilled opponent. Just look up the multiple battles Pete has had with wolverine and you will see that he gets tagged once the fight progresses regardless of his spider-sense. Wolverine and Slade are roughly on the same level in terms of reflexes and speed with Slade edging him out slightly based on their showings. Sp0ck will dodge slashes from Deathstroke but not long enough to take out Slade before he slashes him in two with his blade.
He had peak human reflexes. That doesn't mean that if you multiply that by ten he's faster or as fast as Spider-man. Based on his feats, he clearly isn't. Admittedly, DS is often seen PIS-ing. Why would a character that can get hit by Batman, be tagging Flash? It doesn't make any logical sense. And you keep saying "ramp up his reflexes", which isn't how his reflexes work. When he said "can" he meant that sometimes a threat requires those kinds of reflexes, other times they don't. For example a robber requires less effort on his body to react than Quicksilver. Potentially he could react at 40x faster but his body doesn't need to, so he doesn't. It's not a choice. That's why they're reflexes.
I didn't say he was faster than Spider-man but based on his showings before the enhancements, taking out a team of highly trained mercs before they can take him down, dodging an explosion, he is in Pete's department. As can be seen by his casual bullet dodges, deflections, diving in between industrial fan blades reacting to Kid Flash etc. He didn't tag flash as I stated before he put his blade where he knew Flash would be hence Flash ended up getting stabbed. But against Kid Flash he has the reflexes to dodge and counter attack at the same time.
It is a choice to react differently like I stated. Grabbing a blow by an average human requires almost no reflexes because he is moving just enough to catch the said blow. But putting out his arm to stop QS requires him to react as fast as he can possibly move in order to stop him.
Let's assume that DS was twice as fast as the average man before the procedure (BP) that means that he is 20x faster AP (after procedure). So already, if Spider-man operates at half his full potential he'd still be Slade's equal. Deathstroke is outmatched.
Being unarmed and taking on a team of merc's with guns, stun batons, and explosives shows he has reactions that are triple that or more of the average human. He is skillfully blocking blows coming at him from all directions, and dodges and explosive after it was fired. By his speed and reflex showings he is close to or in Pete's department in terms of speed. Again I could also point out Wolverine tagging Pete multiple times someone who isn't in his department in the reflex or arguably speed category. Even if pete was well above slade in terms of reflexes and speed, he isn't, Slades martial skill alone and the close quarter battle that will result in this encounter only means that pete will inevitably get tagged.
He out-thought a teenager, who he had ample time to prep for, and of whom he has studied and fought multiple times...That doesn't put him above a super-genius, who has reflexes 40x faster than the average person, the ability to lift tons and tons, and a body that has dealt with all sorts of foes. I'm telling you, once SpOck realizes that DS is wearing heavy armor, he's gonna " rampup" the hits. That's tons of force.
1. Prep or not he moved as fast as he could think. Which is a good speed feat on his part.
2. Sp0ck has yet to display the amount of force it would take to destroy armor that has survived mostly intact a hit from a submarine and surviving the epicentre of two bomb blasts without a scratch. Sp0ck is severely lacking in the punching department to hurt slade. Like I showed you Pete going had his punches being stated as being able to wreck vehicles. Slade deals with bombs that would turn cars into shrapnel without a problem. Superior Spider-man won't be punching through anything.
*sigh* Deflecting bullets doesn't mean that you are literally as fast as bullets, or that your arms move literally as fast as bullets.Daredevil has peak human reflexes. He deflects bullets. Batman too. That's street level stuff. Also if you look at the third panel you can see DS getting hit by one of the bullets, but the armor saves him as usual.
1. On paper Matt's reflexes are peak human, by feats his reflexes are pushing superhuman
Seen here. A bullet is fired at him in one panel and the next panel he moves his arm fast enough to bat the bullet away. If he held up the baton and deflected it away with it than yes his arm isn't moving at all. But in this scan it shows that his arm is actually moving faster than the bullet was traveling.
Batman deflects bullets with his Kevlar suit and he actually holds his arm in front of him as you can see below
Seen here. His arm is already in a set place to block the majority of bullets coming toward his face.
2. He let the bullet hit his armor because he could care less. I already showed you a scan in my first post where he gets hit by a multitude of rounds and then in the next panel dodges them.
Alright lets see if I can do a break down of this even that shows slade moves his arm as fast as bullets
Rehash, here is the scan.
So we can see Pat running away from him and as we can see his shots aren't accurate and seem to be going all over the place. As can be seen by the hit to the shoulder and his tricep. In the next panel Slade draw's his sword and in one motion blocks two bullets. What makes this significant is two things are going on here
1. Slade has perception heightened enough to tell the direction and angle of bullets coming at him after they are fired. This cannot be pre-determined because his assailant is both running away and firing haphazardly. Meaning that the bullets are being fired all over the place. Having heightened perception isn't a new thing as can be seen by him jumping and timing the movement of 4 fan blades where the fan is revolving at 3,750+ per minute.
2. He needed to move his arm faster than the bullets being fired in order to angle his blade perfectly to catch both bullets on the flat side of his weapon. Which is both a feat of speed, moving faster than the haphazard bullets, and a precision feat, angling his blade to catch both bullets.
No he's not. But lt's assume we don;t know though. What we can say for sure is DS is tremendously weaker than SpOck in terms of strength. If SSM can get his hands on that sword, he will have no problem with snatching out of his hands, for sure. Let's establish that first.
By feats yes he actually is close to or on par with spider-man in terms of raw reflexes sans spider-sense. Regardless of him being weaker Sp0ck won't be able to focus on snatching the blade considering Slade's ridiculous speed. Jumping through an industrial fan, speed blitzing someone from across the room before they can utter a sound, moving fast enough to block bullets etc. His speed in close quarters will be absolutely deadly and Sp0ck is going to have a difficult time dodging the blade that is almost as large as his body. Sp0ck is stronger but it won't mean a thing when he is focused on dodging a blade which he won't dodge for long.
It's pretty clear that SpOck can and will tag DS.
Sure he will.
That being said, he has tons of strength behind his arms.
You can't argue past Pete's physicals which going all out has been stated enough to wreck cars. Deathstroke tanks bombs and 18,000 ton vehicles dropped on him without much of a problem. Sp0ck doesn't have the strength to punch through Slade's armor based on feats.
Based on scans provided, he has enough strength to break the mask or some other part of the armor.
First off you showed people who were not Sp0ck breaking Slade's armor. Second you showed scan's of people who either were above Sp0ck in hitting strength or in Lobo's case you showed a punch of unknown strength breaching Slade's armor which is not quantifiable in anyway. And the third scan you showed an individual with training and precision well above Sp0ck bypassing Slade's armor with a blade and a high amount of skill and precision that is needed to stab through Deathstrokes armor. All these scan's do not add to any argument made by you thus far that Sp0ck is able to break Slades armor, and I have shown that Sp0ck is sorely lacking in strength to break the Nth metal.
He might not know the swords ability but he will see DS durability right off the bat. If his fists simply wont do (which I've proven they will)
No you have not shown that he has the strength to break the armor with his fists, and I have shown you that he absolutely is lacking in that department to do that.
In which case he will try anything that might work, in the closest vicinity, aka the sword.
Sp0ck isn't going to make a play for the sword at all once he has seen that his talons have no effect and brute strength don't have effect. He will opt for using his environment by either throwing car's or other objects or he may just try to throw Slade around with webs, which he will cut or dodge. If Sp0ck knew about the potential the sword would have against Deathstroke then yes he would go for it but he doesn't know since this is a random encounter. For all he knows a slashing or stabbing weapon, i.e. the sword has no effect on him that he can see once Sp0ck uses his talons.
because in character, DS is a bragger. You saw what he did to that half-demon.
Slade Wilson plays with his food yes, but only when he is hunting it. In a random encounter against an enemy that appears to be both skilled and strong, like Deadborn and Legacy, he is deadly serious and goes all out. It won't be any different with Superior Spider-man, once he sees Sp0ck casually dodges bullets and has speed and strength that matches or rivals his own he will be playing for keeps.
Superior Spider-man will win this fight based on several things
grossly outmatching Deathstroke in terms of strength (based on scans)
grossly outmatching Deathstroke in terms of speed and reflex (based on scans)
basic combat skills that when grouped with the above make a deadly opponent
overall ruthlessness and hatred of those that oppose him
1. Yes he does outmatch Slade in strength but that won't mean a lot in a fight that will be based on reflexes and martial skill both of which Slade has that will allow him to fight with Sp0ck.
2. Based on scans he doesn't outmatch Deathstroke in speed or reflexes they are both roughly in the same class with Sp0ck edging him out ( I can concede that much). But this small disparity can easily be made up with Slade's h2h ability which is leagues above Sp0ck that will allow him to fight pretty evenly.
3. Basic combat skill's being the key word. Deathstroke has advanced combat skill's by mastering several martial arts and fighting techniques while he was still training in the military. Sp0ck is a deadly opponent but this facet of him is not one of the things that will make him an opponent that will take all of Slade's skill and speed to beat.
4. Won't add a thing to this fight seeing as Slade is both ruthless and extremely focused in anything that he puts his mind to.
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