CAV Dextersinister vs Stealth Warrior(VOTING)

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Dextersinister

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#1  Edited By Dextersinister

Stealth warriors team

John Rambo(His gear is the one in this thread and is especified in the comment 7701),Robocop(Classic Movie Robocop with comics,cartoon and movies gear and equipment),616 Captain America(Vibranium/Addamantium shield,5 hand grenades,Berreta 13r with 3 clips 350 shots,1 back-up bullet proff vest),Sam Raimi New Goblin(500 pumpkin bombs,196 exploding razor bats pumpkin bombs,30 standart razor bats pumpkin bombs,his sword,his glider(Sky stick),retractable blades),Movie Hawkeye(Bow and all his arrows.)

Dextersinister team.

I will only be using Ghost and Edward Elric

Equipment and perks

  • 1 Hour of Prep: Your Team Gets To Prepare For Each Mission For An Hour, Can only be used by Teams With an Actual "Prep Master", Can Only Use The Items, Weapons, Teammates, & Henchmen That You Are Currently Equipped With & Material Found On The Battlefield, Cannot Set Up Anything Within 500 Yards of An Enemy Base
  • Flight berries, grants 1 character mach 1 flight

For rules ,map and some top notch debating :P

check here

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/tourney-r3-iragexcudder-vs-sovereign91001-vs-warde-1553095/#30

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Dextersinister

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@stealth_warrior During prep Elric will incase the flag in enough steel so that if you start chipping away at match start you may see it in time for Christmas

Ghost eats the mach one berries, flies underground with his intangibility and grabs the flag from below

GG ready for voting.

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Stealth_Warrior

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@DexterSinister: Can you chosse a team of street levers instead.And morals off please.

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dondave

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Should be good

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FukYouRenchamp

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#5  Edited By FukYouRenchamp

@dextersinister: I vote for Stealth_warrior, I felt his debate of begging you to choose less characters convinced me of his superiority.

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Stealth_Warrior

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FukYouRenchamp

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#7  Edited By FukYouRenchamp
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AllStarSuperman

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#8  Edited By AllStarSuperman
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Sovereign91001

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#9  Edited By Sovereign91001

@stealth_warrior During prep Elric will incase the flag in enough steel so that if you start chipping away at match start you may see it in time for Christmas

Ghost eats the mach one berries, flies underground with his intangibility and grabs the flag from below

GG ready for voting.

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Dextersinister

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#10  Edited By Dextersinister

@stealth_warrior said:

@DexterSinister: Can you chosse a team of street levers instead.And morals off please.

This was my challenge after you said you could beat anyone in the tournament.

I'll challenge you, you can even have an advantage of being able to pick any of the teams here and put it against mine in the same scenario.

The characters are both on my team, allowed and I even went so far as to limit myself to 2.

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Stealth_Warrior

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#11  Edited By Stealth_Warrior

@Dextersinister: Yeah,but you chosse 2 charathers that i cant debate against.This is a mismatch in your favor because you choose one intagible opponent and you wore given 1h of prep.Can you please just pick other guys or at least put no prep time?Also,if you cant do those things do you mind waiting until i get computer acess?

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Dextersinister

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#12  Edited By Dextersinister

@stealth_warrior: If it a mismatch that is purely on you and your lack of knowledge on the tournament which you claimed you could win.

I did not choose these characters based on what you picked, they where part of a fixed roster that you could have or may have looked at before you even selected your team. With the amount of mistakes this match is over and you can see if anyone else is willing to debate, just make sure you do some reading up this time.

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Stealth_Warrior

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@Dextersinister: Ok,know what?We are going to have this CAV just let me have the time to prepare my opner,ok?

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#14  Edited By Stealth_Warrior
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Sovereign91001

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#15  Edited By Sovereign91001
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#16  Edited By Stealth_Warrior
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Dextersinister

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#17  Edited By Dextersinister
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Stealth_Warrior

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@Dextersinister: Hey can you give me one more member to my team?Or can i replace one?

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Stealth_Warrior

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@dextersinister: Ok,lets get started!

I am going to start by presenting youn my team:

Robocop:

Information
Full nameAlexander James Murphy
Nickname(s)"Murph"
SpeciesHuman (augmented-cybernetics)
GenderMale
OccupationDetroit Cybernetic Police Officer
TitleOCP Crime Prevention Unit 001
FamilyRussell Murphy (father)
Spouse(s)Ellen Murphy (1987; deceased)
Nancy Murphy(1994)
Clara Murphy (2014)
Significant other(s)Anne Lewis (partner)
Jack Lewis (partner)
ChildrenJames Murphy (1987)
David Murphy (2014)
ReligionRoman Catholic
Nationality

United States

Police File:

Alex Murphy's police file (from the first RoboCop film) reads as follows:

OD5839484E09

Murphy, Alex J.

548 Primrose Ln,

Detroit, MI

Grade: 1 00 33

Service: 7

Merit:

Miranda Award

GD Conduct

BRVRY

Prime directives

"Dead or alive, you're coming with me."

RoboCop is programmed to follow three main prime directives (accompanied by a mysterious fourth), which are comparable with Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics":

First Directive: Serve the public trust

The First Directive places RoboCop to help the civilians in any ways possible and protect them from any lethal or non-lethal harm. This places RoboCop as a police civil servant in the series and is the moral directive programmed into him. This also disables him from prosecuting, arresting or killing innocent civilians or act in any way against them unless if he is attacked by them, which then activates the Third Directive.

Second Directive: Protect the innocent

The Second Directive, translated as innocent until proven guilty, places RoboCop in a situation that although he can kill criminals, he only can kill criminals that have committed a serious crime (etc. murder), and as such, can only arrest the minor criminals. However, he can engage against them in physical (and possible lethal) combat if they physically attack him.

Third Directive: Uphold the law

The Third Directive establishes RoboCop/Murphy as a police officer and as such he has to protect and serve. This directive forces him to serve as a police officer, and as such, he cannot go on strikes, for instance, and it is impossible for him to be fired or request termination of his employment. The directive also disables him from directly attacking or terminating a police officer, but he can arrest one if proven guilty.

Fourth Directive: Classified

The Fourth Directive, which he is programmed to be unaware of unless it becomes relevant, renders him physically incapable of placing any senior OCP employee under arrest or terminate him: "any attempt to arrest a senior OCP employee results in shutdown". This is Jones's contribution to RoboCop's psychological profile. Jones informs RoboCop that he is an OCP product and not an ordinary police officer. As a result, RoboCop is unable to act against the corrupt Jones until the Old Man verbally terminates Jones's employment with the company, allowing RoboCop to act against him.[4]

Directive four has been erased twice, in each of the sequels. RoboCop 2 sees the deletion of all of the directives—after RoboCop is cut into pieces by Cain's gang, and Dr. Faxx has him rebuilt with so many sub-directives that he is practically incapable of taking action, forcing RoboCop to subject himself to a potentially lethal electric shock to clear his database.[5] During RoboCop 3, Directive Four, which was not classified but instead read "Never oppose an OCP officer," was solely eliminated, so that RoboCop could avenge Lewis's death.[6]

By the time of RoboCop: Prime Directives, Directive Four, in regard to OCP, was not present at all, but a saboteur instituted a fourth directive to "terminate John T. Cable." In RoboCop: The Series, Directive Four was also not present.[8] At the end of Prime Directives, all his directives were erased, but RoboCop stated to his son that he would do "What I do: Serve the public trust, protect the innocent, and uphold the law," noting that he would keep his directives by his own will, not through the imposition of programming.[7]

Upgrades, weapons and equipment

Robocop carries guns designed for him and is equipped with enhanced reflexes, speed and strength, visual and auditory capabilities.

RoboCop holstering weapon

  • Auto-9 - RoboCop's primary weapon; it is a 9mmhandgun with a large barrel extension that fires in three-round bursts.[9] The sidearm is stored in a mechanical holster which opens out of RoboCop's right thigh.[4] The prop for the weapon is a modified Beretta 93R.[9] Though unnamed in the films, The Seriesreferenced the Auto-9 by name and added that the main version of the weapon was modified so that no one but RoboCop could actually fire it.[10] In Prime Directives, it could fire various types of ammunition which RoboCop could select at any given time.
  • Cobra Assault Cannon - The Cobra Assault Cannon used in RoboCop could fire explosive rounds equivalent to that of a grenade launcher and is based on the Barrett M82A1 anti-materiel rifle.[4]
  • Machine gun/rocket launcher - This weapon made its appearance in RoboCop 3 and was never referenced by name other than being called a "weapon arm" in promotional action figures, and a "gun arm" by the production team. To use it, RoboCop removes his left hand and replaces it with the weapon assembly. It contains a 9mm Calico M960, a flamethrower and a small missile launcher with a projectile potent enough to destroy an armored vehicle.
  • Flightpack/recharging station - A large jetpack that allows RoboCop to fly. It also doubles as a replenishing system for when RoboCop's battery system is low on power. As seen in RoboCop 3, the jetpack allows Murphy to overcome his relatively limited mobility for tactical advantage in combat. Referred to in the film as a "flightpack" and by production as a "jetpack," some Japanese schematics also mention "Gyropack" as a name.
  • Mini-gun/cannon - This weapon appears in Frank Miller's RoboCop comic book and was originally meant to be RoboCop's arm cannon prior to the final product in RoboCop 3.
  • Data spike - RoboCop's data spike is a sharp, spike-like device that protrudes from Robocop's right fist. This device can be used by Robocop to interface with a corresponding data port in order to download information from the police database and compare information he's gathered from his missions with the police database. Not actually a weapon, this device was also used to take out Clarence Boddicker; having pinned RoboCop under a pile of scrap metal, the cyborg waited for Boddicker to approach and then stabbed Boddicker in the throat, killing the crime lord. The spike does not make an appearance in the second but is used by RoboCop in the third film to access the OCP mainframe where he finds that a young girl's parents have been eliminated.
  • Explosives - In RoboCop: The Series, unidentified explosive devices were equipped in Robocop's left thigh holster, and adhere to metallic surfaces. When armed, they can be detonated by weapons-fire, and are used primarily to remove barricades and other obstacles.
  • Feats:See Robocop vs terminator on Death Battle.
  • Rambo:
  • Information
    Nickname(s)Rambo
    Boatman (by Lewis)
    AliasesRaven, Lone Wolf (field names)
    GenderMale
    OccupationSoldier (former)
    Mercenary
    FamilyR. Rambo (father)
    Marie Drago (mother)
    Col. Sam Trautman (close-friend, father-figure, trainer, best-friend until death)
    Spouse(s)Although he was never married, he was in a brief relationship with the deceased Vietnamese freedom fighter, Co Bao, who was killed after they made plans of going back to America together.
    NationalityAmerican
  • Specialties

    Hand-to-Hand Combat: John Rambo is the ultimate fighting machine. Made for war, he has proven himself time and time again to be the ideal soldier. In hand-to-hand combat, Rambo possesses the skills to utterly decimate his opponent. Having the ability to use his environment, Rambo is capable of transforming anything into a weapon. When most people would just see a tree, Rambo would see a vantage point or a resource to construct weapons. Utilizing several different strikes, kicks, and grappling procedures, Rambo's body is a killing machine. Quick, decisive, and powerful are the terms one can use to describe the techniques utilized by this fierce warrior.

    Durability/Survival

    : Also, his training has taught him to be extremely durable - much more durable than an average person. Part of his training was the technique of enduring and ignoring immense physical pain. Taught that it was all a part of the "mission," Rambo has learned to ignore it. When others would usually stop, Rambo had been taught to keep going. An immense part of the training procedure was the concept of survival. Essentials of wilderness survival were programmed into John Rambo. No matter the place, he was taught to survive in its environment. Also, the concept of first aid and medic training were administered. This was given so that Rambo could heal himself in the line of duty, or heal one of his comrades.

    Weapons Mastery

    : It is well-knonw that John Rambo's preferred weapon of choice is a large combat knife. In John Rambo's hands, it is a force to be reckoned with. A tool as well as a weapon, Rambo always keeps a large knife at the ready;the knife also has a sewing needle in it . In addition, John has become a master of archery. Preferring its quick and silent action, John Rambo has mastered the compound bow and the various warheads available for the arrows (some meant for specific targets, others used as explosives). Throughout his training, John Rambo has also mastered most if not all types of firearms. Whether it be a small handgun or a large M-60, Rambo knows how to use it. An expert marksman, he is able to clear the field.

    Vehicular Experience

    : Rambo was trained to handle any and all types of vehicles. During the Vietnam War, John pilotted helicopters, tanks, and various watercrafts. This specialty really goes to show the versatility and experience of John Rambo. Such skills have proven their worth time and time again.

    Specializing in hand-to-hand physical combat, survival tactics, weaponry, and more, Rambo is a force to be reckoned with.

  • Awards[edit]

    In First Blood is mentioned:

    Per dialogue in Rambo: First Blood Part II, during his Vietnam era service, Rambo was awarded:

    In "Rambo Prepares Knife" deleted scene from Rambo III, Rambo's "Class A" uniform can clearly be seen (although his rank can not be seen) in his footlocker with the following 13 ribbons:

    In a measure of discontinuity within the storyline, Rambo's Silver Stars and Distinguished Service Cross were missing from his ribbon rack as well as theNational Defense Medal and the Good Conduct Medal, both of which he would have been awarded.

    Various special duty badges can also be seen on Rambo's "Class A" uniform, including:

    Additionally, in this same scene, Rambo's Social Security Number is revealed: 936-01-1758. However, the Social Security Administration does not issue a SSN with the prefix 936. Citizens in Arizona, Rambo's home state, are issued SSNs with the prefixes 526-527, 600-601, and 764-765. This was probably done to avoid the chances that Rambo's fictional SSN would match that of a real living person.

  • Feats:See Rambo vs Terminator in Fanboy Faceoff.
  • Captain America:
  • In-story information
    Alter egoSteven Grant "Steve" Rogers
    Team affiliationsAll-Winners Squad
    Avengers
    Avengers Unity Squad
    Illuminati
    Invaders
    Landau, Luckman, and Lake
    New Avengers
    Project: Rebirth
    Redeemers
    S.H.I.E.L.D.
    "Secret Avengers" (Civil War)
    Secret Avengers
    Secret Defenders
    U.S. Army
    PartnershipsBucky (James Barnes)
    Falcon
    Nomad (Jack Monroe)
    Bucky (Rick Jones)
    Free Spirit
    Jack Flag
    Bucky (Rikki Barnes)
    Demolition Man
    Sharon Carter
    Notable aliasesNomad, The Captain, Brett Hendrick, Roger Stevens, Weapon I, Spider-King
    Abilities
  • aptain America has no superhuman powers, but through the Super-Soldier Serum and "Vita-Ray" treatment, he is transformed and his strength, endurance, agility, speed, reflexes, durability, and healing are at the zenith of natural human potential. Rogers' body regularly replenishes the super-soldier serum; it does not wear off.[107]

    The formula enhances all of his metabolic functions and prevents the build-up of fatigue poisons in his muscles, giving him endurance far in excess of an ordinary human being. This accounts for many of his extraordinary feats, including bench pressing 1200 pounds (545 kg) and running a mile (1.6 km) in 73 seconds (49 mph/78 kph).[127]Furthermore, his enhancements are the reason why he was able to survive being frozen in suspended animation for decades. He is highly resistant to hypnosis or gases that could limit his focus.[128] The secrets of creating a super-soldier were lost with the death of its creator, Dr. Abraham Erskine.[57] In the ensuing decades there have been numerous attempts to recreate Erskine's treatment, only to have them end in failure. Even worse, the attempts have instead often created psychopathic supervillains of which Captain America's 1950s imitator andNuke are the most notorious examples.

    Rogers' battle experience and training make him an expert tactician and an excellent field commander, with his teammates frequently deferring to his orders in battle. Thor has stated that Rogers is one of the very few humans he will take orders from and follow "through the gates of Hades".[129] Rogers' reflexes and senses are extraordinarily keen. He has blended judo, western boxing, kickboxing, and gymnastics into his own unique fighting style and is a master of multiple martial arts. Years of practice with his near-indestructible shield make him able to aim and throw it with almost unerring accuracy. His skill with his shield is such that he can attack multiple targets in succession with a single throw or even cause a boomerang-like return from a throw to attack an enemy from behind. In canon, he is regarded by other skilled fighters as one of the best hand-to-hand combatants in the Marvel Universe, limited only by his human physique.[130][131] Although the super-soldier serum is an important part of his strength, Rogers has shown himself still sufficiently capable against stronger opponents, even when the serum has been deactivated reverting him to his pre-Captain America physique.[132]

    Rogers has vast U.S. military knowledge and is often shown to be familiar with ongoing, classified Defense Department operations. He is an expert in combat strategy, survival, acrobatics, military strategy, piloting, and demolitions. Despite his high profile as one of the world's most popular and recognizable superheroes, Rogers has a broad understanding of the espionage community, largely through his ongoing relationship with S.H.I.E.L.D. He is a talented artist, and has worked on the Captain America comic book published in the Marvel universe. Other career fields include commercial arts, teaching high school history, and law enforcement.

    Although he lacks superhuman strength, Captain America is one of the few mortal beings who has been deemed worthy enough to wield Thor's hammerMjolnir.[133]

    Weapons and equipment[edit]

    Further information: Captain America's shield

    Captain America has used multiple shields throughout his history, the most prevalent of which is a nigh-indestructible disc-shaped shield made from an experimental alloy of steel and the fictional vibranium.[134][135] The shield was cast by American metallurgist Dr. Myron MacLain, who was contracted by the U.S. government, from orders of PresidentFranklin Delano Roosevelt, to create an impenetrable substance to use for tanks during World War II.[134]This alloy was created by accident and never duplicated, although efforts to reverse-engineer it resulted in the discovery of adamantium.[136]

    Captain America often uses his shield as an offensive throwing weapon. The first instance of Captain America's trademark ricocheting shield-toss occurs inStan Lee's first comics writing, the two-page text story "Captain America Foils the Traitor's Revenge" in Captain America Comics #3 (May 1941).[15] The legacy of the shield among other comics characters includes the time-traveling mutant superhero Cable telling Captain America that his shield still exists in one of the possible futures; Cable carries it into battle and brandishes it as a symbol.[137]

    When without his trademark shield, Captain America sometimes uses other shields made from less durable metals such as steel,[138] or even a photonic energy shield designed to mimic a vibranium matrix.[139] Rogers, having relinquished his regular shield to Barnes, carried a variant of the energy shield which can be used with either arm, and used to either block attacks or as an improvised offensive weapon able to cut through metal with relative ease.[140]Much like his vibranium shield, the energy shield can be thrown, including ricocheting off multiple surfaces and returning to his hand.[141]

    Captain America's uniform is made of a fire-retardant material, and he wears a lightweight, bulletproof "duralumin" scale armor beneath his uniform for added protection.[56] Originally, Rogers' mask was a separate piece of material, but an early engagement had it dislodged, thus almost exposing his identity. To prevent a recurrence of the situation, Rogers modified the mask with connecting material to his uniform, an added benefit of which was extending his armor to cover his previously exposed neck. As a member of the Avengers, Rogers has an Avengers priority card, which serves as a communications device.

    Captain America has used a custom specialized motorcycle, modified by the S.H.I.E.L.D. weapons laboratory, as well as a custom-built battle van, constructed by the Wakanda Design Group with the ability to change its color for disguise purposes (red, white and blue), and fitted to store and conceal the custom motorcycle in its rear section with a frame that allows Rogers to launch from the vehicle riding it.

  • Feats:
  • Without the SSS (Super Soldier Serum), takes down a few SSS-induced goons using pure fighting skills, then takes down more after being restored with the SSS.

  • States that he is adept in every form of H2H combat.

  • Dodging multiple gunfire
  • Simultaneously deflects bullets and dodging another bullet with a shield throw.

  • Sees faster than bullet speed

  • Holds his own against Carnage
  • Post conclusion:
  • They are all to be considered prep time masters since they have Genius leve intellect and outrageous resources.Theycould defenelly ull something of by countering Ghosts intangibility and invisibility and i dint even get started on New Goblin and Hawkeye.
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#20  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

I swear this is the Viperrko aka Spider-masterlord.

*Polishes my hammer and whistles.*

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Who copies a wiki like that? Whatever....

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Stealth_Warrior

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#23  Edited By Stealth_Warrior
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Dextersinister

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@stealth_warrior: Of course, of course but if you could just point out the bit that stops someone who is intangible and in the ground that would be most helpful.

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#25  Edited By Stealth_Warrior

@Dextersinister: Well,as i said they are all to be considered prep time masters because of their high level of intelligence and numerous resources,so they would have a counter to Ghosts intangibility and him beyng in the ground.Captain America haves S.H.I.E.L.D and his allys as his resources.1 hour of prep with Tony Stark,T'Challa,Nick Fury,Hank Pym or Reed Richards would be enogh to come up with a counter for Ghost.Not to mention that Tony haves many encounters with the Ghost and haves a first hand experience of how to deal with him.Tony's Extremis suit haves measures against intangibility and that shows that Tony could aply measures against to the area that the flag is.The smartest men in the world together with 2 experts on Warfare and Guerrila tactics could pull something off for example make Hawkeye a specialized arrow that can cause Ghosts suit to malfunction or simply make a impenetrable energy field/ball much like a dome every way around the flag.During prep they will also everything about your team.

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Dextersinister

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#26  Edited By Dextersinister

@stealth_warrior: Incorrect

  • The battle is against your characters, not your characters and everyone they know, phone Superman is not an option for Batman in the battle forums. No outside help.
  • Your resources are what you have on you as standard and what you can scavenge which isn't much as it says vehicles and weapons where removed
  • you are not aware of who you are up against so prepping for intangibility is highly unlikely although I am pretty certain your characters can't do that unless you can show me otherwise

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FukYouRenchamp

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#27  Edited By FukYouRenchamp

@stealth_warrior: Of course, of course but if you could just point out the bit that stops someone who is intangible and in the ground that would be most helpful.

You hear that?

Your fighting the Avengers and Shield now,

lol

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Dextersinister

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@dextersinister said:

@stealth_warrior: Of course, of course but if you could just point out the bit that stops someone who is intangible and in the ground that would be most helpful.

You hear that?

Your fighting the Avengers and Shield now,

lol

He must have asked @lukehero what equipment Captain America comes with and he said he he gets what's listed + the Avengers and Shield :P

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Stealth_Warrior

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@Dextersinister: So,my charathers cant use their resources during prep time.

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#30  Edited By mickey-mouse
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FukYouRenchamp

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@pr0metheus said:

@dextersinister said:

@stealth_warrior: Of course, of course but if you could just point out the bit that stops someone who is intangible and in the ground that would be most helpful.

You hear that?

Your fighting the Avengers and Shield now,

lol

He must have asked @lukehero what equipment Captain America comes with and he said he he gets what's listed + the Avengers and Shield :P

This is bullshit,I didn't the the Avengers in the other tournament!

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#32  Edited By mickey-mouse
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Dextersinister

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@dextersinister said:
@pr0metheus said:

@dextersinister said:

@stealth_warrior: Of course, of course but if you could just point out the bit that stops someone who is intangible and in the ground that would be most helpful.

You hear that?

Your fighting the Avengers and Shield now,

lol

He must have asked @lukehero what equipment Captain America comes with and he said he he gets what's listed + the Avengers and Shield :P

This is bullshit,I didn't the the Avengers in the other tournament!

At @lukehero just posted a gif of our expressions after witnessing his shenanigans

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#34  Edited By FukYouRenchamp
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Dextersinister

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@Dextersinister: So,my charathers cant use their resources during prep time.

People aren't considered resources on the battle forum, Batman doesn't even get Alfred.

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#36  Edited By Stealth_Warrior

@Dextersinister: Captain America resources are S.H.I.E.L.D and Robocop resources are the OCP.

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#37  Edited By mickey-mouse
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#38  Edited By FukYouRenchamp
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Dextersinister

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@Dextersinister: Captain America resources are S.H.I.E.L.D and Robocop resources are the OCP.

Shall we continue the debate as intended or are you going to stick with that idea despite the fact that they don't carry those people around on their backs as standard equipment?

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#41  Edited By FukYouRenchamp
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#42  Edited By mickey-mouse
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#43  Edited By Stealth_Warrior

@Dextersinister: Steve does got a comunicator in his helmet so that he can talk to S.H.I.E.L.D trougth.So,make your counter so we can proced to continue.

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#44  Edited By Dextersinister

@stealth_warrior: Counter? I've already told you

No Outside Help

it's match between our picked characters, looks like it's time for voting because I have a good feeling your not going to accept that given that I've needed to tell you that simple rule twice.

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@Dextersinister: Ok,i get it,no outside help.Do your counter to my opnning statment where i presented my charathers.

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Dextersinister

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#46  Edited By Dextersinister

@stealth_warrior: There is nothing to counter, you never gave me an example of your characters being able to stop an intangible character.

Ghost moving through stuff

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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@lukehero: He was thrown by Thor and he gets back handed away right after it happens but Thunderbolts Juggernaut was a good deal weaker than villain Juggernaut.

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@Dextersinister: Until you pick otheq members of your roster this CAV is terminated.