CaV: Deathstroke VS X-23 [VOTING!!!]

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TheNewBlueBeetle007

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@the_red_viper: @eisenfauste:this was a great CaV and you both should be immensely proud of what you did here. And I'm not just saying that to be polite; both of you really impressed me. A couple points, though:

  1. Bought that Slade could tag X23, because he tagged Bart Allen.
  2. Bought that X-23 was at least of even skill to Logan because of her battles with Daken and the man himself.
  3. Thought you both were high-balling a bit.

In the end, I'm calling it a stalemate. Can't really decide. Nice job, this was too close to call.

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Eisenfauste

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#52  Edited By Eisenfauste

@thenewbluebeetle007: Thanks for the input :)

where was the high-balling so I can avoid statements that led to this thinking in the future?

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Eisenfauste

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the_red_viper

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#54 the_red_viper  Moderator
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TheNewBlueBeetle007

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@eisenfauste: My only issue with your feats was that you used Identity Crisis. That issue was filled with stupidity.

And I'm not sure on whether or not you were allowed Pre-Crisis feats, but I think I saw a few of them in there.

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TheNewBlueBeetle007

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@the_red_viper: X-23 cannot move in 1/200th of a second. Other than that you were fine.

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Eisenfauste

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@thenewbluebeetle007: It really was but I did only try to focus on Dinah getting blitzed.

Thanks again for the input.

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the_red_viper

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#58 the_red_viper  Moderator

@eisenfauste: the OP doesn't look as good as it used to but the title will hopefully draw more voters in.

@thenewbluebeetle007: comics do tend to be a little hyperbolic on themselves when real world calculations are applied lol. Thanks for the critique!

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Eisenfauste

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MasterKungFu

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this is a tough one. I'll get back later on this

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the_red_viper

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#61 the_red_viper  Moderator

Bumpitty bump-bump

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Jacthripper

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#62  Edited By Jacthripper
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Jacthripper

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@eisenfauste: @the_red_viper: Great match to both of you! A lot of good back and forth, but I'm going to have to go with TRV and X-23.

My reasoning was that I felt that Viper made a better case in closing the distance as well as melee combat. Eisen had me believe that Slade could tag Laura, but TRV pointed out that she could pretty much heal through whatever Slade could do to her. In the debate, I particularly liked the bit about the effectiveness of tactics, so much better than the standard inane "superior tactical mind" quote for Deathstroke, and I learned a bit about X-23's tactical capabilities. All in all, a very good debate.

Again, great job to both debaters, a nice clean CaV. I would like to see more stuff like this on the battle forums.

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the_red_viper

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#64 the_red_viper  Moderator

@jacthripper: thanks man! I appreciate it. Anything you think I didn't do well and should improve?

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Jacthripper

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@the_red_viper: The one part where you fell just a little bit short was probably in emphasizing fighting skill, though I know you demonstrated all the quantifiable parts of it, such as speed, strength, dexterity, and agility. And personally, that's not a bad thing, because skill is hard to quantify.

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the_red_viper

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#66 the_red_viper  Moderator
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Eisenfauste

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#67  Edited By Eisenfauste

Votes

The_Red_Viper: 3

Eisenfauste: 3

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Eisenfauste

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#68  Edited By Eisenfauste
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the_red_viper

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#69 the_red_viper  Moderator

Bump! Needz votez!!!

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the_red_viper

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#70  Edited By the_red_viper  Moderator
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TheNaughtyTitan

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#71  Edited By TheNaughtyTitan

I'll vote tonight or tomorrow, i'll probably vote tomorrow considering it's hard to read when you're as tired as I am lol.

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SirBaronOBeefdip

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#72  Edited By SirBaronOBeefdip

The strokes the word. Meaning Slade wins if no one gets the joke.

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the_red_viper

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#73 the_red_viper  Moderator

@sirbaronobeefdip: is that a vote on the debate or are you just saying what character you think wins Ina fight?

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SirBaronOBeefdip

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@the_red_viper: Oh which character would win in a fight. Didn't know it was about q debate.

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Thor-Parker

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@the_red_viper: I need to finish reading it, I´ll give my vote tomorrow if you are ok with that.

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the_red_viper

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#76 the_red_viper  Moderator
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the_red_viper

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#77  Edited By the_red_viper  Moderator
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Jhaigo

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#78  Edited By Jhaigo

There were great debates on both sides and both debaters kept it civil but I have to give my vote to Eisenfauste. He convinced me that Slade was capable of taking X-23 down and tagging her. One minor flaw with Eisenfauste's argument was using feats from Identity Crisis. It was a minor use but I basically think of that book as non-canon when it comes to debates involving Slade.

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TheNaughtyTitan

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@thenewbluebeetle007: It really was but I did only try to focus on Dinah getting blitzed.

Thanks again for the input.

I mean, focusing on one part of a poorly written WIS mess really doesn't make it any better... shouldn't have focused on any of it ;)

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TheNaughtyTitan

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Forgot to read this! I shall do it right now!

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the_red_viper

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#81 the_red_viper  Moderator

@thenaughtytitan: yay! :P

@jhaigo: thanks for taking your time. What do you think I should do better next time?

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Jhaigo

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I feel like the best parts of your arguments were when you argued for her healing factor. You could have argued more for that giving her the win.

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Eisenfauste

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@jhaigo: Thanks for the vote! And thanks for taking the time to read this.

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the_red_viper

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#84 the_red_viper  Moderator
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Eisenfauste

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#85  Edited By Eisenfauste
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Thor-Parker

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@the_red_viper: When are you going to close the voting ?....I really want to read this and give my vote but I haven´t had much time lately, I´ll probably vote tonight if that´s okay with you.

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the_red_viper

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#87 the_red_viper  Moderator
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Eisenfauste

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heh you guys have time but it would be nice to see this get wrapped up.

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Thor-Parker

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the_red_viper

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#90 the_red_viper  Moderator
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the_red_viper

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#91 the_red_viper  Moderator
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senglord

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Wow. I just read this CAV.

Before I give my vote, a few points.

1. The Judas Contract scans were before COIE, but we're still canon.

2. Laura has nowhere near the level of speed described.

3. There are a LOT of feats of Deathstroke shaming teams of heroes. The most beastly were the battle against Titans East under Geoff Johns run on TT, as well as Slade soloing the second string lineup of the JLA during 52. That line up included Captain Marvel, so yeah.

@Eisenfauste: You made a strong case for Laura being tagged repeatedly by Slade's promethium staff. The bigger problem for your arguments was that you did not disprove the argument that X-23 cannot simply slice through promethium like any other normal metal. Speed, reflexes, and skills seem comparable. Which makes durability a cardinal issue.

@The_Red_Viper: You showed that peak humans can get close to a morals on Slade. And, without a lot of context, it would make it possible for Laura to blitz. The problem with that argument is that it ignores that Slade's morals prevented him from targeting superheroes for years. Even when he fought the titans, he held back from outright killing them many times. And, when he became a mass murderer that killed heroes and civilians, the goal was to get his children accepted as heroes.

You also made the sound claim that adamantium would cut through Slade's gear. The problem was that Slade's sword, staff, and armor have properties and durability closer to vibranium and Cap's shield than normal metals. The fact that he was designed as an amoral Cap should have been stressed.

This debate ultimately became dominated by whether Slade could tag Laura with the staff. An argument that ignored the most important issues.

1. Can she get in close to do damage? Yes. You showed that clearly.

2. Can she cut through a high strength promethium broadsword and slash through Slade's armor? You made the claim, and provided evidence that her claws were incredibly sharp. But, Promethium is on the level of Carbonadium and Vibranium in terms of durability. She can use the scale nature of Slade's armor to deal pierce and counter grain slash damage. But, she does not have the feats of cutting through vibranium, or piercing Captain America's shield.

Eisenfauste needed to establish that Slade is a beast against superhumans above her physical tier in melee combat, he did not.

My vote may not count, but it goes to

The_Red_Viper.

PS. Slade does have the advantage in durability and melee damage output due to high grade Promethuim sword and promethium body armor. Laura has slightly better combat speed, and a much better healing factor. And, defense trumps offense in most of these threads.

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the_red_viper

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#93 the_red_viper  Moderator

@senglord: thanks for the vote and the thorough explanation and analysis my friend.

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senglord

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@the_red_viper: You are welcome.

I argued for Batman against X-23 in a Battle of the Week. It left me very knowledgeable.

PS. She won decicively in the first four hours.

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Eisenfauste

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@senglord: Thanks for the breakdown and taking the time to vote.

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Thor-Parker

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I am going to give my vote to @the_red_viper.

Arguments from both sides were really convincing but the game changer here for me was X-23´s healing factor which The_Red_Viper made a very good use of it and had a valid point proving why that ability would be so helpful in this fight.

Congrats to both.

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Eisenfauste

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Thor-Parker

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Eisenfauste

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the_red_viper

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#100 the_red_viper  Moderator

@thor_parker82: thanks a lot, man. Anything I didn't do well in your opinion?