Step right up folks and gather around for a CAV featuring two of Comicvine's premier debaters, debating with two of the most popular characters in Star Wars fiction *sarcastic laughs*
Represented by Deronn, in the blue corner, weighing at an unspecified weight, standing at 6 foot 2 inches hailing from Wayland -- is the one....the only......Joruus C'baoth!!!!!!!
*Boo* "You stank Joruus!!"
In the red corner, represented by Shooningnova - weighing and standing at unspecified weight and height, hailing from the planet Dathomir.....Gethzerion!!!!!
*Boo* " You stank too!"
Rules
- Standard morals apply
- Both combatants will have standard gear
-Random encounter
-Opponents start 10 meters apart
-Battles takes place on Dathomir in a terrain akin to this:
-Remember--this is a CAV, meaning this is a debate between me and Nova. No one is allowed to comment on anything involving the battle until after votes have been called.
@xwraith: No I've never read the Thrawn Trilogy! Why does everyone act so surprised when they learn that? I've explained on multiple occasions that ABY post-RotJ is my least knowledgeable era. I know next-to-nothing about it, and have been exposed to very little of it.
As a preface to the audience, I will note that lightsabers are irrelevant in this matchup. Joruus doesn't even appear to carry one, and only one illustration depicts him with one. For Gethzerion, I don't recall any from The Courtship of Princess Leia, and the only illustration was from a card game, where she seemingly beats Kyrisa, a character of utterly unknown skill by any stretch of the imagination due to being an utter unknown save for in the card game's lore portion, so I think it's safe to say lightsabers aren't an issue here. So to anybody who expected lightsaber skill to be an issue... sorry, guys.
Anyways, let's start. To begin, I will like to address the power disparity here. The two do have some speed feats, but I highly doubt that Force Speed would be an issue, and the power classes of these characters are high enough and close enough anyway. Power is the only real issue here, and its varying categories. I can admit that Joruus is very clearly more powerful in the telepathy area, and he could win via that route if he decided to do so, but I'm not so sure this is likely. He is also more potent with Lightning - a power which, admittedly, he does use quite frequently. We can discuss this as you begin to respond, but for now, I'll focus on Gethzerion's strengths, which are Force Storm and telekinesis. As the setting takes place on Dathomir, as all her feats have, Gethzerion is benefited most notably. She has displayed several Force Storm feats of incredible scale which I will relay here:
Generating a weather/lightning storm because she was angry:
Outside, through the open portals, Han could see fierce storm clouds in the distance, flashing lightning. The stars here burned fiercely above the tree-covered mountains. Around him, the witches laughed and taught their daughters spells in the shadows. The young girls wore shirts and pants of simple hides, not the elaborate costumes of the fully trained witches. Yet the witches seemed more casual, more cozy around their children. They removed their headdresses and let their hair down. Without their full attire, they weren't so intimidating, and reminded Han only of rugged peasants. The witches' husbands worked silently, dressed in tunics of woven plant fibers, serving meals to the women so quietly that Han almost felt as if they must be communicating telepathically.
Augwynne sat nearby so that she could speak softly to Han and Leia. She noticed how Han frequently eyed the distant storm. "Do not worry yourself," she said. "That is only Gethzerion, thrashing in impotent fury. But she is too far away. There will be no Force storm tonight."
"Gethzerion is making that lightning?" Threepio asked, his eyes suddenly bright. "Why, I wonder how much power output she can produce."
Augwynne looked at the distant clouds, unconcerned, and a brilliant branch of orange lightning with many tongues arced up into the sky, as if expressly for her to see. "Oh, she's very powerful, and very angry. But for tonight, she will not come."
Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
Generating lightning:
Thunder rumbled over the clouds, echoed from the mountain wall. Purple lightning spat at the cliff face above, exploding like a blaster bolt, sending splinters of magma flaming down in an arc.
Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
Charging the air with static electricity:
The brown smoke hung ominously above like a pall to cover the world, yet it was utterly motionless. Somehow, the Nightsisters were manipulating the smoke, using the Force to wield it like a hammer. The air felt charged with static electricity.
Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
Shaping clouds in the sky into a face of herself:
He looked up, and suddenly the clouds above the valley swirled, as if a hand had waved above a cooking fire. Gethzerion's face filled the sky, a face made of reddened smoke that frowned down upon them, eyes twitching. Then the face dissolved, but Luke was left with the uncanny feeling that Gethzerion was still up there, hidden behind the clouds, watching them.
Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
These quotes can reveal many things. The first quote reveals that Gethzerion can create Force Storms effortlessly, the second quote indicates that the lightning generated from the Force storms is very much a danger to Joruus, and the fourth quote is evidence of how much control Gethzerion has over this power. To be honest, I would argue that this is a power which at least rivals Joruus's TP. Gethzerion has some TP feats of her own - so I'm not entirely convinced that Joruus could just Mind Control her immediately (we can discuss that more later), whereas Joruus is relatively lacking in defense against Gethzerion's Force Storms. I don't ever recall Joruus displaying Barrier or Protection, so if a Lightning strike hit him, it would spell disaster. Joruus has decent Force Speed showings, but most relate to be faster than non-Force sensitives, to memory, so they aren't very impressive. Joruus did move faster than Luke at one point, which is a commendable feat, but it doesn't necessarily mean he can just dodge all the Lightning strikes; certainly not easily. Also, Gethzerion appears to be more likely to display Force Storms in combat than Joruus would with TP - so I'd argue it would have to be at least as potent an edge.
The other area where Gethzerion shines is telekinesis, where she vastly exceeds Joruus. We can discuss whether it's enough to ragdoll him or not later, but for now, I will leave behind quotes to simply identify the sheer potency of Gethzerion's telekinesis.
Stomping Luke via ragdolling him, smashing the right side of his face as if with a hammer, then causing Luke's arms and legs to fail him. After that, Gethzerion deals a blow to his temple, before ripping open blood vessels in Luke's brain:
She pointed a finger at Luke, and before Luke even recognized her evil intent, a ripple of Force slammed into him. White lights exploded behind his eyes, and the right side of his face felt as if it had been smashed by a hammer. His left arm and right leg crumpled under their unbearable weight, and he dropped to the ground on one knee, stunned. All the noise and blaster fire and screams of pain died away, became a distant roaring. Gethzerion pointed at him again, twitched her finger, and his eyes lost focus. He felt the hammer blow to his left temple, dropped to his sides and rolled over to his back, grasping. Luke stared up at the sky, watching streams of rocks hurtling above him—some propelled by the Force, others hurled by rancors.Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion's spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
Killing General Melvar plus one hundred Stormtroopers with merely a gesture:
Melvar got up, tried to recover his dignity, and took the detonator. "Thank you," he grunted."Ah, and allow me to do you one more favor!" Gethzerion whispered, stepping forward. "By giving you this—” Her eyes opened wide, blazing, and she made a raking motion with her index finger. Beside Han the general gasped, reached up to hold his temple, then staggered forward a pace. "A simple death!" Gethzerion cackled. All around Han, a hundred stormtroopers crumpled simultaneously, some of them staggering a step or two, some firing blaster rifles in the air so that Han instinctively ducked. Within three seconds the stormtroopers lay on the ground like drugged birds, unmoving. Han looked up at the carrier, waiting for the ship to open fire. Nothing happened.
Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
Breaking Han Solo's bones and popping his teeth:
Gethzerion twitched her finger, and Han jerked upright, found himself with his feet dangling in the air, held by an invisible cord around his throat. Gethzerion watched him intently, began to sing, swaying from side to side. He felt the noose around his neck tightening. Han chocked, kicked, fought to break free. "I wonder what your thermal detonator would have done to me," Gethzerion reflected, still swaying. "I suspect it would have blasted my flesh into scraps, and broken my bones, and fried me all at once. So I think I shall do all of these things to you—but not so hastily. Not all at once. I think we shall work from the inside out. First I'll snap your bones, one by one. Do you know how many bones there are in the human body, General Solo? If you do, just triple the number, and you'll know how many bones you'll have when I finish with you. We'll begin with your leg," Gethzerion said. "Listen carefully!" She twitched her finger, and the tibia in his right leg made crackling sounds. A painful spasm made its way up to his hip. "Aaaghh," he cried—and saw something over the desert. There about two kilometers off he saw the running lights of the Millennium Falcon speeding toward them, only meters above the ground. Gethzerion smiled in satisfaction. "There now, you have three bones where you had but one." Han tried to stall her, tried to think of anything that would slow her for a moment. "Listen," he strained to speak. "You aren't going to do this to, to, to my teeth, are you?" he said, unable to think of anything else. "I mean, uh, anything but the teeth!" He glanced around the compound. Several Nightsisters were coming out the bottom of the towers. "Oh, yes, the teeth," Gethzerion said, and she twitched her forefinger. Han's right upper rear molar exploded with a popping sound, and the stabbing pain shot through his ear and upper face, until it felt as if Gethzerion had grabbed his eye at the socket and were intent on pulling it through the roof of his mouth. Han silently cursed himself for giving her nifty ideas. The Falcon wasn't getting here fast enough, and Han shook his head. "Wait!" he cried. "Let's talk about this!" and Gethzerion wiggled her forefinger again. The upper left rear molar snapped, and suddenly there was a whooshing sound as the Falcon fired its missiles. Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
As we can very clearly see, Gethzerion is an extremely powerful telekinetic. Joruus has some decent TK feats of his own, but not even close to the scale of Gethzerion's - between stomping 8ABY Luke and killing one hundred and one people at once with merely a gesture in both scenarios. She is vastly more powerful than Joruus is, at least in this department - and it is just as likely to be used as Joruus's Lightning, on top of being harder to avoid.
I think I'll leave it here for now. There's more I can post, but I would like to refrain from posting everything in my first post, especially since Gethzerion herself has limited appearances (one novel, only). I am also not fully decided on my verdict of the outcome. I'd lean towards a majority for Gethzerion, but I'm not entirely sure how much yet. I'd prefer to discuss varying issues with you first before I make a judgment or post anymore, so I'll just leave it with an introduction to Gethzerion's best feats.
LOL. Sorry about the wait, let's get this started.
As a preface to the audience, I will note that lightsabers are irrelevant in this matchup. Joruus doesn't even appear to carry one, and only one illustration depicts him with one. For Gethzerion, I don't recall any from The Courtship of Princess Leia, and the only illustration was from a card game, where she seemingly beats Kyrisa, a character of utterly unknown skill by any stretch of the imagination due to being an utter unknown save for in the card game's lore portion, so I think it's safe to say lightsabers aren't an issue here. So to anybody who expected lightsaber skill to be an issue... sorry, guys.
These dudes are all powa!!
Anyways, let's start. To begin, I will like to address the power disparity here. The two do have some speed feats, but I highly doubt that Force Speed would be an issue, and the power classes of these characters are high enough and close enough anyway.
Fair enough. But I see this as a who hit first scenario, I think speed could play a part here. And seeing as how it could play a part, C'baoth is clearly better in that category:
Joruus C'baoth fires Sith Lightning so fast, that Pellaeon had no chance to flinch from the incoming bolt:
Pellaeon twisted to face him, instinctively drawing his blaster as he did so. Thrawn waited another few
heartbeats before slowly turning around himself. "How did they die?" he asked.
The old man smiled faintly. "I killed them, of course. Just as I killed the Guardian." He raised his empty
hands in front of him, palms upward. "Just as I now kill you." Without warning, blue lightning bolts flashed from his fingertips— And vanished without a trace a meter away from each of them. It all happened so fast that Pellaeon had no chance to even flinch, let alone fire. Now, belatedly, he raised his blaster, the scalding hot air from the bolts washing over his hand— "Hold," Thrawn said calmly into the silence. "However, as you can see, Guardian, we are not ordinary offworlders."
"The Guardian is dead!" the old man snapped, the last word almost swallowed up by the crackle of more lightning. Again, the bolts vanished into nothingness before even coming close.
Excerpt from Heir to the Empire
Using TK, C'baoth stops an projectile shot from a crossbow in midair, before it reaches it's desired destination, all faster then Palleon's brain can process ; after that, Joruus proceeds to block blaster shot with a flat stone he levitated via TK faster then the eye can see:
The words were barely out of his mouth when the guard suddenly snapped the crossbow up and fired.
Instinctively, Pellaeon ducked, raising his blaster— And three meters from the Imperials the bolt came to an abrupt halt in midair. Pellaeon stared at the hovering piece of wood and metal, his brain only slowly catching up with what had just happened. "They are our guests," C'baoth told the guard in a voice clearly intended to reach everyone in the square. "They will be treated accordingly."
With a crackle of splintering wood, the crossbow bolt shattered, the pieces dropping to the ground. Slowly, reluctantly, the guard lowered his crossbow, his eyes still burning with a now impotent rage.
Thrawn let him stand there another second like that, then gestured to Rukh. The Noghri raised his blaster
and fired—
And in a blur of motion almost too fast to see, a flat stone detached itself from the ground and hurled itself directly into the path of the shot, shattering spectacularly as the blast hit it.
Thrawn spun to face C'baoth, his face a mirror of surprise and anger. "C'baoth—!"
"These aremy people, Grand Admiral Thrawn," the other cut him off, his voice forged from quiet steel.
"Not yours; mine. If there is punishment to be dealt out,I will do it."
Excerpt from Heir to the Empire
Luke caught the flicker of sense a half second before Svan dived for the slugthrower. With a single smooth motion he had his lightsaber free of his belt and ignited. But C'baoth was faster. Even as Luke's green-white blade snapped into existence, C'baoth raised his hand; and from his fingertips flashed a sizzling volley of all-too-well remembered blue lighting.
Svan took the blast full in the head and chest, snapping over backwards with a scream of agony. He slammed into the ground, screaming again as C'baoth sent a second blast at him. The slug-thrower flew from his hands, its metal surrounded for an instant by a blue-white coronal discharge.
C'baoth lowered his hand, and for a long moment the only sound in the room was a soft whimpering from the man on the floor. Luke stared at him in horror, the smell of ozone wrenching at his stomach. "C'baoth!"
-- Excerpt taken from Dark Force Rising
Now that last one doesn't mean he is faster then Luke, (obviously raising your hand is requires much less movement then pulling a lightsaber out of your belt and igniting it) but then again, it seemed as if he shot is lightning as Luke lightsaber came into existence--so the overall impressiveness of this feat seems debatable, still I think it's safe to say that Joruus is quicker to the draw then .
Besides that feat, blocking a blaster bolt with a rock is a great telekinetic feat, and speed feat, which alone--should put him above anything Gethzerion has shown.
Power is the only real issue here, and its varying categories. I can admit that Joruus is very clearly more powerful in the telepathy area, and he could win via that route if he decided to do so, but I'm not so sure this is likely.
True. But Joruus, did cast an aura of drowsiness on Jomark during DFR. it's quite possible he did this only because he was on his home planet, but I don't think that was stated anywhere:
Using telepathic means, C'baoth induces drowsiness on Mara Jade to the point she falls alseep while piloting the Skipray, it's only after she is a meter way from the Force blocking Ysalamir, the fatigue effect wains
Mentally crossing her fingers, she tapped the comm, keying the code she'd programmed in during the trip. Luck was with her: here, at. Least, Thrawn's people were still using standard Imperial guidance transponders. The Skipray's displays flashed the location, an island forming the center of a ring-shaped lake just past the sunset line. She triggered the transponder once more to be sure, then keyed in the sublight drive and started down. Trying to ignore the last image of the Emperor's face . . .
The Wailing of the ship's alarm jerked her awake. "What?" she barked aloud to the empty cockpit, sleep-sticky eyes flicking across the displays for the source of the trouble. It wasn't hard to find: the Skipray had rolled half over onto its side, its control surfaces screaming wist stress as the computer fought to keep her from spinning out of the sky. Inexplicably, she was already deep inside the lower atmosphere, well past the point where she should have switched over to the repulsorlift.
Clenching her teeth, she made the switchcover and then gave the scan map a quick look. She'd only been out of it for a minute or two but at the speed the Skipray was doing even a few seconds of the inattention could be fatal. She dug her knuckles hard into her eyes, fighting against the fatigue pulling at her and feeling the sweat breaking out again on her forehead. Flying while half asleep, her old instructor had often warned her, was the quickest if messiest way to end your life. And if she had gone down there would have been no one to blame but herself.
Or would she?
She leveled the ship off, confirmed that there were no mountains in her path, and keyed in the autopilot. The ysalamir and portable nutrient framework that Aves had given her were back near the aft hatchway, secured to the engine access panel. Unstrapping from her seat, Mara made her way back toward it -- It was as if someone had snapped on a light switch. One second she felt as if she had snapped on a light switch. One second she felt as if she had just finished a four-day battle; half a step later, a meter so so from the ysalamir, the fatigue abruptly vanished. She smiled grimly to herself. So her suspicion had been correct: Tharwn's mad the Jedi Master didn't want any company. "Nice try," she called into the air.
Excerpt taken from Dark Force Rising
This telepathic trick even worked on Luke Skywalker, as it was later shown:
"No, Master C'baoth," Skywalker said, his voice almost gentle. "Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
C'baoth snorted. "A platitude for the simpleminded. Or for those with insufficient wisdom to make their own decisions. I am beyond such things, Jedi Skywalker. As you will be someday.If you choose to remain.
Skywalker shook his head. "I'm sorry," he said. "I can't." He turned away and walked toward Mara—
"Then you turn your back on the galaxy," C'baoth said, his voice now earnest and sincere. "Only with our guidance and strength can they ever hope to achieve real maturity. You know that as well as I do."
Skywalker stopped. "But you just said they hate us," he pointed out. "How can we teach people who don't want our guidance?"
"We can heal the galaxy, Luke," C'baoth said quietly. "Together, you and I can do it. Without us, there is no hope. None at all."
"Maybe he can do it without you," Mara put in loudly, trying to break up the verbal spell C'baoth was weaving. She'd seen the same sort of thing work for the Emperor, and Skywalker's eyelids were heavy enough as it was.
Too heavy, in fact. Like hers had been on the approach to Jomark …
Stepping away from the X-wing, she walked over to Skywalker. C'baoth made a small movement, as if he were going to stop her; she hefted her blaster, and he seemed to abandon the idea. Even without looking at him, she could tell when the Force-empty zone around her ysalamir touched Skywalker. He inhaled sharply, shoulders straightening from a slump he probably hadn't even noticed they had, and nodded as if he finally understood a hitherto unexplained piece of a puzzle.
"Is this how you would heal the galaxy, Master C'baoth?" he asked. "By coercion and deceit?"
-- Taken from Dark Force Rising
Now it's debatable whether or not he will use such a trick here, but that is why we're in this thread: to debate.
He is also more potent with Lightning - a power which, admittedly, he does use quite frequently.
True. That is kinda his calling card during matches. He has some impressive showing here, in the quote below, he uses Force Lightning to punish Svan-- which leaves him with multiple burns
Luke caught the flicker of sense a half second before Svan dived for the slugthrower. With a single smooth motion he had his lightsaber free of his belt and ignited. But C'baoth was faster. Even as Luke's green-white blade snapped into existence, C'baoth raised his hand; and from his fingertips flashed a sizzling volley of all-too-well remembered blue lighting.
Svan took the blast full in the head and chest, snapping over backwards with a scream of agony. He slammed into the ground, screaming again as C'baoth sent a second blast at him. The slug-thrower flew from his hands, its metal surrounded for an instant by a blue-white coronal discharge.
C'baoth lowered his hand, and for a long moment the only sound in the room was a soft whimpering from the man on the floor. Luke stared at him in horror, the smell of ozone wrenching at his stomach. "C'baoth!"
“You will address me as Master,” the other cut him off quietly.
Luke took a deep breath, forcing calm into his mind and voice. Closing down his lightsaber, he returned it to his belt and went over to kneel beside the groaning man. He was obviously still hurting, but aside from some angry red burns on his chest and arms, he didn’t seem to be seriously hurt. Laying his hand gently on the worst of the burns, Luke reached out with the Force, doing what he could to alleviate the other’s pain.
“Jedi Skywalker,” C’baoth said from behind him. “He is not permanently damaged. Come away.
Luke didn’t move. “He’s in pain.”
-- Excerpt taken from Dark Force Rising
Joruus sends Mara flying with Sith Lightning, and then sends Lightning towards Luke way-- albeit, Luke reflects it, some still get's past his guard, and he takes minor damage because of it:
The Force was again with him.
"Mara!" he snapped. But it was too late. Mara's blaster had already wrenched itself from her grip and been flung back across the room; and even as Luke leaped toward her C'baoth's outstretched hand erupted into a brilliant blaze of blue-white lightning.
The blast caught Mara square in the chest, throwing her backward to slam into the guardrail behind her.
"Stop it!" Luke shouted, getting in front of her and igniting his lightsaber. C'baoth ignored him, firing a second burst. Luke caught most of it on his lightsaber blade, grimacing as the part he missed jolted through his muscles. C'baoth fired a third burst, and a fourth, and a fifth— And then, abruptly, he lowered his hands.
"You will not presume to give me commands, Jedi Skywalker," he said, his voice strangely petulant. "I am the master. You are the servant." "I'm not your servant," Luke told him, stepping back and throwing a quick look at Mara. She was still pretty much on her feet, clutching the guardrail for support. Her eyes were open but not fully aware, herbreath making little moaning sounds as she exhaled between clenched teeth. Laying his free hand on her shoulder, wincing at the stink of ozone, Luke began a quick probe of her injuries.
"You are indeed my servant," C'baoth said, the earlier petulance replaced now by a sort of haughty grandeur. "As is she. Leave her alone, Jedi Skywalker. She required a lesson, and she has now learned it."
Luke didn't answer. None of her burns seemed too bad, but her muscles were still twitching uncontrollably. Reaching out with the Force, he tried to draw away some of the pain.
--Excerpt from Last Command
Credit to the wiki for this pic....lol.
Presumingly via Lightning C'baoth has killed several inhabitant of Wayland:
Silently, the doors swung open, revealing the light of what looked to be several hundred candles filling a huge room.
Pellaeon glanced once at the old man standing beside the doors, a sudden premonition of dread sending a shiver up his back. Taking a deep breath, he followed Thrawn and Rukh inside. Into a crypt. There was no doubt as to what it was. Aside from the flickering candles, there was nothing else in the room but a large rectangular block of dark stone in the center.
"I see," Thrawn said quietly. "So he is dead."
"He is dead," the old man confirmed from behind them. "Do you see all the candles, Grand Admiral Thrawn?" "I see them," Thrawn nodded. "The people must have honored him greatly."
"Honored him?" The old man snorted gently. "Hardly. Those candles mark the graves of off worlders who have come here since his death."
Pellaeon twisted to face him, instinctively drawing his blaster as he did so. Thrawn waited another few heartbeats before slowly turning around himself. "How did they die?" he asked. The old man smiled faintly. "I killed them, of course. Just as I killed the Guardian." He raised his empty hands in front of him, palms upward. "Just as I now kill you." Without warning, blue lightning bolts flashed from his fingertips—
And vanished without a trace a meter away from each of them.
--Excerpt from Heir to the Empire
This time, he uses Lightning to knock Luke off-balance and to his knees even when he deflected it with his Lightsaber, he then proceeds to drop Luke with Force Lightning.
Luke dropped his lightsaber back into defense position, senses again tingling with danger.
But once again, the knowledge did him little good. C'baoth's lightning burst flashed against the lightsaber blade, the impact knocking Luke off balance and dropping him painfully onto his knees in the pile of stones around him. Even as he struggled to get up, one of the falling rocks slammed hard into the side of his head. He staggered, toppling sideways onto one hand. Again the lightning flashed, throwing coronal fire all through the stone pile and sending wave after wave of agony through him.
The lightsaber was plucked from his fingers; dimly he saw it fly over the railing toward the far end of the throne room.
--Excerpt from The Last Command
Joruus Lightning has the necessary power to win the match for him alone, and giving the fact he is very quick to the draw, I can see him winning with this tactic.
These quotes can reveal many things. The first quote reveals that Gethzerion can create Force Storms effortlessly,
Indeed.
the second quote indicates that the lightning generated from the Force storms is very much a danger to Joruus,
I concede to that, but I think Joruus has the speed to dodge them if he deems them dangerous. As I'e shown above, he has some amazing speed feats.
and the fourth quote is evidence of how much control Gethzerion has over this power. To be honest, I would argue that this is a power which at least rivals Joruus's TP.
Ehh. I'm not sure about that.
With no strain, Joruus was able to create a haze of drowsiness that affected both Mara and Luke Skywalker, Luke by this time had some of the best telepathic showings in the EU admittedly, even at this stage. Granted, Luke never suspected that C'baoth was influencing him with TP, but it's still a great feat regardless.
Telepathy feats for Luke at this point just for informational purposes.
Here Luke casually mind controls an Imperial officer:
Well these are from Truce Of Bakura which happen like days after ROTJ so the feats should still be usable
Luke resists the effects of Bluescale's hypnotic eye.
“Back,” Luke ordered. The alien’s head turned. A deep black eye focused in his direction, and the nose-tongues flicked toward him. He channeled Force energy into his words. “Get away from her.” The eye seemed to swirl like a dark storm, beckoning for attention, sucking at his will. Unquestionably this one, or another like him, kept Dev Sibwarra leashed.
--Taken from The Truce at Bakura
Here he causes Darth Vader pain via telepathy:
Luke undoes Dev's brainwashing and restores his memories.
Now
, urged his inner sense. He reached deep into the Force and felt for the hypnotic control that twisted Dev Sibwarra to the aliens’ will. The shadow of something enormous darkened most of Dev’s memories. The boy had tremendous strength in the Force, though. Luke wrapped his will around the dark, roiling blockage and blasted it with light. Dev tottered backward against another table. In an instant, his mind had flooded with horrific recollections. His anger coalesced, small and stunted but as fierce as a P’w’eck invasion army. Disoriented, he blinked. The monstrous Skywalker had suddenly become fellow human. He didn’t feel depressed, just furious. He couldn’t need renewal...unless...
He stared up at Skywalker, who still stood on the tabletop, and caught a glint of keen eyes and the grim set of his chin. Dev strokes hid throbbing, clumsy left hand, remembering how he’d injured it. Firwirrung! His master had bound him with tender loyalty over years of abusive manipulation. Dev opened his eyes wide to the world, forsaking his squint. He’d never felt such agony or regret, yet so glad to be human. Despite everything they had done...had done...he was battered but whole.
“Are you all right?” whistled Bluscale.
A shiver took him. He remembered everything now, including the speech habits he’d picked up during his imprisonment. “I’m all right. Are you, Elder?”
“Tell the Jedi to hurry along with us. Promise anything.”
Realization flashed through him: The Ssi-ruuk meant to reduce humankind to breeding animals and energy sources. They would lie, ill, torture, and maim to achieve domination. They deserved nothing but hatred. Luke Skywalker called down from the tabletop, “Hate is of the dark side. Don’t give into it.”
Had the Jedi plunged him through depression into total release?
“What?” asked Master Firwirrung. “What is he saying to you?”
Confused, Dev answered automatically. “He apologized for killing one of our kind, Master.”
“Tell him to precede us outside. He must hurry.”
Dev looked back up. In human speech, he said, “They want you to—“ A piercing siren echoed through the cantina. Abruptly Dev remembered the most terrible moment of his childhood, a civil defense scramble alarm. Invasion under way. He snapped back to the present and started at his masters, stricken. Had Admiral Ivpikkis attacked the orbiting ships after all? He’d promised that the Ssi-ruuk would withdraw if Skywalker came with them. One more link in their twisted chain of lies!
--Taken from The Truce at Bakura
Here Luke scans the minds of 40 to 50 people
Luke opened himself to listen through the Force. A babble surrounded him, the textures of forty or fifty nervous minds. Narrowing his focus, he reached straight across the chamber toward a massive repulsor chair, all gold and purples except for two banks of controls on the armrests. Wilek Nereus must have caught a faster shuttle. He sat there already, with his double-mindedness coming through as strongly as ever. Luke let his attention drift leftward, observing the senators’ reactions to Leia. He sensed curiosity tinged with hostility, but a dark undercurrent of fear also pervaded the chamber. This world was under attack.
--Taken from The Truce at Bakura
Luke creates an illusion of the scent of blood inside his body.
A horrendous cough interrupted him. Automatically, he turned the healing focus onto his chest. Two greedy pinpoints of life gleamed with primitive instincts: Eat. Cling. Reproduce. Survive. A blast of understanding underscored his panic. He tried to touch minds with one of the pinpoints, but it had no mind. It ate its way instinctively toward blood. It was chewing through a bronchial tube toward his heart. Reduced to a single instinct, himself—survive!—he curled toward the bulkhead.
Curled up in the darkness, Luke could think of only one thing to try. He breathed slowly and focused his attention on the pinpoints of living instinct inside his chest. He touched one. Neurologically primitive, its only response was to flinch and go on eating. They were obviously parasites. He senses their ravenous hunger. As panic threatened to immobilize him, he thought of the smell of fresh blood: sweet, warm, faintly metallic. He extended the thinnest thread of a probe toward one creature. Recognition: Some minuscule awareness understood. He imagined mouthparts pulling free and a head turning toward him. It was desperately hard to project the smell while judging its effect on a primitive, alien awareness. He brushed the second creature with the scent.
All around his point of consciousness, his own heart thudded. He swirled the scent-illusion away from them a few millimeters, tempting them to follow. One awareness dimmed out and forgot the scent. He brushed it again with the tempting odor of life. It hummed recognition. It drew closer. He couldn’t concentrate on both individuals. His body waited to cough, and within seconds, something was definitely in the way. He inhaled cautiously and then exploded, hacking. Something spewed out of his mouth. One wasn’t enough. Virtually exhausted, he crafted the scent-illusion again and stroked the remaining creature. Its attention flickered for an instant, then faded. He thrust again into its perception.
This time, he snagged it. Slowly, slowly, he led it along a dark bronchial tunnel. It radiated hunger. He tried not to gag or choke—or swallow. Slowly he slipped a deep breath around the creature, inhaling until his aching lungs strained. Then he let go, retching and coughing. This creature caught on his teeth. I squirmed, making a gruesome mouthful. He spit it out and then flailed blindly for I in the dark cabin. Something squashed.
--Taken from The Truce at Bakura
Luke projects an astral presence which he uses to implant a mental suggestion.
Miniature alien fighters had almost surrounded Wedge and his squadron, trapping them inside an escape-proof globe of energy shields and firepower. Luke fought down panic and funneled his emotional energy into the Force around and inside him.
He stretched out his own point of presence toward the tiny alien ship dead ahead of Wedge’s X-Wing. Touching it, he clearly sensed two almost-human presences on board the small fighter. Shutting out the nauseating sense of twistedness, Luke brushed each presence. One controlled shields, the other, all remaining shipboard functions. Luke focused on the second, driving Force energy into its center. Though weak and faint, it resisted with tortured strength. Its misery goaded him toward despair: No one deserved to live free, its whole being declared. By its reckoning, Luke could do nothing for Wedge—and nothing to save himself—and nothing to save either human aboard the alien fighter. All were doomed.
Luke struggled to see through the stranger’s vision. The entire sphere of space opened around him. It overloaded his senses. He had to narrow his field of view to find Wedge’s X-Wing. On either side of his projected presence, another pyramid hovered apparently motionless, flying in formation. From the center of each triangular face, a scanner/sensor cluster peered back like a compound eye. Laser cannon bristled at each corner.
Fear, anger, aggression: the dark side are they. Yoda had taught him that his methods were as critical as his motives. If he used dark power, even in self-defense, the cost to his soul might be disastrous. He relaxed into the Force. Clinging to control for the sake of his soul and his sanity, he amplified the pitiful will. Its sense of humanity peaked, hopeless victory for a tortured spirit. It had lived once—free. With all the intensity of the doomed, it longed to go on living.
Luke planted a suggestion in reply. But a good death is better than a life enslaved to hatred, and peace is better than anguish.
With suddenness that startled him, the alien ship altered course directly for one of its squadron mates. It accelerated to ram. Luke wrenched free of the other human’s will and sat gasping and swallowing.
--Taken from The Truce at Bakura
Luke shows trans-dimensional telepathic range, as he is able to connect with Cronal while he's in hyerspace:
White light, brilliant, blinding, a young star born within his head. It seared his mind, blasting away even his memory of darkness. He recoiled convulsively, like a worm encountering red-hot stone. This was more than light; it was the Light. It was the power to drive off the Dark.
This was inconceivable. What could heat his absolute zero? What could banish his infinite night?
You should know.
The voice of the Light was not a voice. It spoke without speaking, communicating not with words, but with understanding. You invited me here.
Skywalker? This light was Skywalker?
In the instant he thought the name, Cronal saw him: a shape of light, absolute, uncompromising, kneeling within the Election Center in the darkest heart of the Shadow Base, his hands solemnly interfolded with the massive paws of Kar Vastor. He had linked his shadow nerves to Vastor's, and through the intimate connection between Vastor and Cronal he had somehow stretched forth to touch the Shadow Lord himself.In the Dark, Cronal saw Skywalker smile. Thank you for joining me here.
I was a little worried you might get away with that silly crown of yours. This was impossible. This must be some hallucination, a twisted product of his Darksight run amok. He was in hyperspace! Hyperspace did not, could not, interact with realspace-I was with Ben Kenobi in hyperspace when he felt the destruction of Alderaan. No wall can contain the Force.
Exceprt from Luke Skywalker: Shadows of Mindor
Credit to Silver for all feats excluding the last one, and the one with Vader.
That's however is not Joruus' greatest telepathy I would argue the feats below are better, especially the first tow
C'baoth takes control of over 37,000 aboard the Chemria and threatens to use it to kidnap Leia and her twins on Curuscant, this is not only his best feat TP feat, this is one of the greatest feat in the entire Star Wars mythos:
Thrawn shook his head. "I have no intention of destroying Coruscant—"
"You lie!" C'baoth cut him off, jabbing an accusing finger at him. "You always lie to me. But no more. No more.I command the Empire, and all its forces." He raised his hands above his head, an eerie blue-white coronal sheen playing about them. Pellaeon cringed despite himself, remembering the lightning bolts C'baoth had thrown at them in the crypt on Wayland. But no lightning came.
C'baoth simply stood there, his hands clutching at empty air, his eyes gazing toward infinity. Pellaeon frowned at him... and he was just considering asking C'baoth what he was talking about when he happened to glance down into the portside crew pit. The crewers were sitting stiffly in their chairs, their backs parade-ground straight, their hands folded in their laps, their eyes staring blankly through their consoles. Behind them, the officers were equally stiff, equally motionless, equally oblivious. The starboard crew pit was the same as was the aft bridge.
And on the consoles Pellaeon could see, which should have been active with incoming reports from other sectors of the ship, the displays had all gone static. It was a moment Pellaeon had expected and dreaded since that first visit to Wayland. C'baoth had taken command of the Chimaera . "Impressive," Thrawn said into the brittle silence. "Very impressive indeed. And what do you propose to do now?"
"Need I repeat myself?" C'baoth said, his voice trembling slightly with obvious strain. "I will take this ship to Coruscant. To take my Jedi, not to destroy them." "It's a minimum of five days to Coruscant from here," Thrawn said coldly.
"Five days during which you'll have to maintain your control of the Chimaera 's thirty-seven thousand crewers. Longer, of course, if you intend for them to actually fight at the end of that voyage. And if you intend for us to arrive with any support craft, that figure of thirty-seven thousand will increase rather steeply." C'baoth snorted contemptuously. "You doubt the power of the Force, Grand Admiral Thrawn?"
"Not at all," Thrawn said. "I merely present the problems you and the Force will have to solve if you continue with this course of action. For instance, do you know where the Coruscant sector fleet is based, or the number and types of ships making it up?
Have you thought about how you will neutralize Coruscant's orbital battle stations and ground-based systems? Do you know who is in command of the planet's defenses at present, and how he or she is likely to deploy the available forces? Have you considered Coruscant's energy field? Do you know how best to use the strategic and tactical capabilities of an Imperial Star Destroyer?"
"You seek to confuse me," C'baoth accused. "Your men—my men—know the answers to all those questions."
"To some of them, yes," Thrawn said. "But you cannot learn the answers. Not all of them. Certainly not quickly enough."
"I control the Force," C'baoth repeated angrily. But to Pellaeon's ear there was a hint of pleading in the tone. Like a child throwing a tantrum that he didn't really expect to get him anywhere...
"No," Thrawn said, his voice abruptly soothing. Perhaps he, too, had picked up on C'baoth's tone.
"The galaxy is not yet ready for you to lead, Master C'baoth. Later, when order has been restored, I will present it to you to govern as you please. But that time is not yet."
For a long moment C'baoth remained motionless, his mouth working half invisibly behind his flowing beard. Then, almost reluctantly, he lowered his arms; and as he did so, the bridge was filled with muffled gasps and groans and the scraping of boots on steel decking as the crewers were released from the Jedi Master's control. "You will never present the Empire to me," C'baoth told Thrawn. "Not of your own will."
"That may depend on your ability to maintain that which I am in the process of re-creating," Thrawn said.
"And which will not come to be at all without you?"
Thrawn cocked an eyebrow. "You're the Jedi Master. As you gaze into the future, can you see a future Empire arising without me?"
"I see many possible futures," C'baoth said. "In not all of them do you survive."
"An uncertainty faced by all warriors," Thrawn nodded. "But that was not what I asked."
C'baoth smiled thinly. "Never assume you are indispensable to my Empire, Grand Admiral Thrawn. Only I am that."
He sent his gaze leisurely around the bridge, then drew himself to his full height. "For now, however, I am pleased that you should lead my forces into battle." He looked back sharply at Thrawn. "You may lead; but you will not destroy Coruscant. Not until I have my Jedi."
"As I have said already, I have no intention of destroying Coruscant," Thrawn told him. "For now, the fear and undermining of morale that accompany a siege will serve my purposes better."
"Ourpurposes," C'baoth corrected. "Do not forget that, Grand Admiral Thrawn."
"I forget nothing, Master C'baoth," Thrawn countered quietly.
"Good," C'baoth said, just as quietly. "Then you may carry on with your duties. I will be meditating,
should you require me. Meditating upon the future of my Empire."
He turned and strode off the bridge; and Pellaeon let out a breath he hadn't realized he'd been holding.
"Admiral..."
"Signal theRelentless , Captain," Thrawn ordered him, swiveling back around again. "Tell Captain Dorja I need a five-hundred-man caretaker crew for the next six hours."
Pellaeon looked down into the portside crew pit. Here and there one could see a crewer sitting properly at his station or an officer standing more or less vertically. But for the most part the crewers were collapsed limply in their seats, their officers leaning against walls and consoles or lying trembling on the deck.
"Yes, sir," he said, stepping back to his chair and keying for comm. "Will you be postponing the Coruscant operation?"
"No more than absolutely necessary," Thrawn said. "History is on the move, Captain. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance."
He glanced back at the door through which C'baoth had departed. "And those who stand in our way," he added softly, "will not watch at all."
Excerpt from The Last Command
Via a deceptive plan by Thrawn, coordinated by Joruus C'baoth, of firing turbolaser blasts at the shields and having cloaked ships, which had sneaked in with the planetary shields down, to fire. This caused the appearance that Thrawn was firing through the shields, and Ukio surrendered. This is an monumental feat because Joruus was controlling several thousand man crew's with split-second timing
As an aside, he also senses Princess Leia from a far distance in space.
The countdown reached zero, and on the main wall display the planet Ukio appeared. "We should put
up a tactical display, Master C'baoth," he said. C'baoth waved a hand. "As you wish."
Pellaeon reached over the double display ring and touched the proper key, and in the center of the roomthe holographic tactical display appeared. The Chimaera was driving toward high orbit above the sunsideequator; the ten Katana fleet Dreadnaughts of its task force were splitting up into outer and inner defensepositions; and the Stormhawk was coming in as backstop from the night side. Other ships, mostlyfreighters and other commercial types, could be seen dropping through the brief gaps Ground Control was opening for them in Ukio's energy shield, a hazy blue shell surrounding the planet about fifty kilometers above the surface. Two of the blips flashed red: the guide freighters from theStormhawk , looking as innocent as all the rest of the ships scurrying madly for cover. The freighters, and the four invisible companions they towed.
"Invisible only to those without eyes to see them," C'baoth murmured.
"So now you can see the ships themselves, can you?" Pellaeon growled. "How Jedi skills grow."
He'd been hoping to irritate C'baoth a little—not much, just a little. But it was a futile effort. "I can see
the men inside your precious cloaking shields," the Jedi Master said placidly. "I can see their thoughts andguide their wills. What does the metal itself matter?"
Pellaeon felt his lip twist. "I suppose there's a lot that doesn't matter to you," he said.
From the corner of his eye he saw C'baoth smile. "What doesn't matter to a Jedi Master does not matter to the universe." The freighters and cloaked cruisers were nearly to the shield now. "They'll be dropping the tow cables as
soon as they're inside the shield," Pellaeon reminded C'baoth. "Are you ready?"
The Jedi Master straightened up in his seat and closed his eyes to slits. "I await the Grand Admiral's
command," he said sardonically. For another second Pellaeon looked at the other's composed expression, a shiver running up through
him. He could remember vividly the first time C'baoth had tried this kind of direct long-distance control.Could remember the pain that had been on C'baoth's face; the pinched look of concentration and agony as he struggled to hold the mental contacts.
Barely two months ago, Thrawn had confidently said that C'baoth would never be a threat to the Empirebecause he lacked the ability to focus and concentrate his Jedi power on a long-term basis. Somehow,between that time and now, C'baoth had obviously succeeded in learning the necessary control.
Which left C'baoth as a threat to the Empire. A very dangerous threat indeed.
The intercom beeped. "Captain Pellaeon?"
Pellaeon reached over the display ring and touched the key, pushing away his fears about C'baoth as
best he could. For the moment, at least, the Fleet needed C'baoth. Fortunately, perhaps, C'baoth also
needed the Fleet. "We're ready, Admiral," he said.
"They are free," C'baoth said. "They are under power... moving now to their appointed positions." "Confirm that they're beneath the planetary shield," Thrawn ordered.
For the first time a hint of the old strain crossed C'baoth's face. Hardly surprising; with the cloaking
shield preventing theChimaera from seeing the cruisers and at the same time blinding the cruisers' ownsensors, the only way to know exactly where they were was for C'baoth to do a precise location check on the minds he was touching. "All four ships are beneath the shield," he said.
"Be absolutely certain, Jedi Master. If you're wrong—"
"I am not wrong, Grand Admiral Thrawn," C'baoth cut him off harshly. "I will do my part in this battle.
Concern yourself with yours."
For a moment the intercom was silent. Pellaeon winced, visualizing the Grand Admiral's expression.
"Very well, Jedi Master," Thrawn said calmly. "Prepare to do your part."
There was the double click of an opening comm channel. "This is the Imperial Star Destroyer Chimaera , calling the Overliege of Ukio," Thrawn said. "In the name of the Empire, I declare the Ukian system to be once again under the mandate of Imperial law and the protection of Imperial forces. You will lower your shields, recall all military units to their bases, and prepare for an orderly transfer of command."
There was no response. "I know you're receiving this message," Thrawn continued. "If you fail to
respond, I will have to assume that you mean to resist the Empire's offer. In that event, I would have nochoice but to open hostilities."
Again, silence. "They're sending another transmission," Pellaeon heard the comm officer say. "Sounds alittle more panicked than the first one was."
"I'm certain their third will be even more so," Thrawn told him. "Prepare for firing sequence one. MasterC'baoth?"
"The cruisers are ready, Grand Admiral Thrawn," C'baoth said. "As am I."
"Be sure that you are," Thrawn said, quietly threatening. "Unless the timing is absolutely perfect, this
entire show will be worse than useless. Turbolaser battery three: stand by firing sequence one on my
mark. Three... two... one... fire."
On the tactical hologram a double lance of green fire angled out from theChimaera 's turbolaser
batteries toward the planet below. The blasts struck the hazy blue of the planetary shield, splashed
slightly as their energy was defocused and reflected back into space—
And with the desired perfect timing the two cloaked cruisers hovering on repulsorlifts beneath the shield
at those two points fired in turn, their turbolaser blasts sizzling through the atmosphere into two of Ukio'smajor air defense bases.
That was what Pellaeon saw. The Ukians, with no way of knowing about the cloaked cruisers, would have seen theChimaera fire two devastating shots cleanly through an impenetrable planetary shield.
"Third transmission cut off right in the middle, sir," the comm officer reported with a touch of dark humor. "I think we surprised them." "Let's convince them it wasn't a fluke," Thrawn said. "Prepare firing sequence two. Master C'baoth?"
"The cruisers are ready."
"Turbolaser battery two: stand by firing sequence two on my mark. Three... two... one... fire."
Again the green fire lanced out, and again, with perfect timing, the cloaked cruisers created their illusion.
"Well done," Thrawn said. "Master C'baoth, move the cruisers into position for sequences three and
four."
"As you command, Grand Admiral Thrawn."
Unconsciously, Pellaeon braced himself. Sequence four had two of the Ukians' thirty overlapping shield generators as its targets. Launching such an attack would mean that Thrawn had given up on his stated goal of taking Ukio with its planetary defenses intact.
"Imperial Star Destroyer Chimaera , this is Tol dosLla of the Ukian Overliege," a slightly quavering voicecame from the intercom speaker. "We would ask you to cease your bombardment of Ukio while we discuss terms for surrender."
"My terms are quite simple," Thrawn said. "You will begin by lowering your planetary shield and allowing my forces to land. They will be given control of the shield generators themselves and of all ground-to-space weaponry. All fighting vehicles larger than command speeders will be moved to designated military bases and turned over to Imperial control. Though you will, of course, be ultimately answerable to the Empire, your political and social systems will remain under your control. Provided your people behave themselves, of course."
"And once these changes have been implemented?"
"Then you will be part of the Empire, with all the rights and duties that implies."
"There will be no war-level tax levies?" dosLla asked suspiciously. "No forced conscription of our young people?"
Pellaeon could imagine Thrawn's grim smile. No, the Empire would never need to bother with forced conscription again. Not with the Emperor's collection of Spaarti cloning cylinders in their hands.
"No, to your second question; a qualified no to your first," Thrawn told the Ukian. "As you are obviouslyaware, most Imperial worlds are currently under war-status taxation levels. However, there are exceptions, and it is likely that your share of the war effort will come directly from your extensive food production and processing facilities." There was a long pause from the other end. DosLla was no fool, Pellaeon realized—the Ukian knew full well what Thrawn had in mind for his world. First it would be direct Imperial control of the ground/space defenses, then direct control of the food distribution system, the processing facilities, and the vast farming and livestock grazing regions themselves; and in a very short time the entire planet would have become nothing more than a supply depot for the Imperial war machine. But the alternative was for him to stand silently by and watch as his world was utterly and impossibly demolished before his eyes. And he knew that, too.
"We will lower the planetary shields,Chimaera , as a gesture of good faith," dosLla said at last, his tonedefiant but with a hint of defeat to it. "But before the generators and ground/space weaponry can beturned over to Imperial forces we shall require certain guarantees regarding the safety of the Ukian people and our land."
"Certainly," Thrawn said, without any trace of the gloating that most Imperial commanders would haveindulged in at this point. A small act of courtesy that, Pellaeon knew, was as precisely calculated as therest of the attack had been. Permitting the Ukian leaders to surrender with their dignity intact would slowdown the inevitable resistance to Imperial rule until it was too late. "A representative will be on his wayshortly to discuss the particulars with your government," Thrawn continued. "Meanwhile, I presume youhave no objection to our forces taking up preliminary defense positions?"
A sigh, more felt than really heard. "We have no objections,Chimaera ," dosLla said reluctantly. "We are lowering the shield now."
On the tactical display, the blue haze surrounding the planet faded away. "Master C'baoth, have thecruisers move to polar positions," Thrawn ordered. "We don't want any of the drop ships blundering intothem. General Covell, you may begin transporting your forces to the surface. Standard defensive positions around all targets."
"Acknowledged, Admiral," Covell's voice said, a little too dryly, and Pellaeon felt a tight smile twitch at his lip. It had only been two weeks since the top Fleet and army commanders had been let in on the secret of the MountTantiss cloning project, and Covell was one of those who still hadn't adjusted completely to the idea.
Though the fact that three of the companies he was about to lead down to the surface were composedentirely of clones might have had something to do with his skepticism.
On the tactical hologram the first waves of drop ships and TIE fighter escorts had exited the Chimaera and Stormhawk , fanning out toward their assigned targets. Clones in drop ships, about to carry out Imperial orders. As the clone crews in the cloaked cruisers had already done so well.
Pellaeon frowned, an odd and uncomfortable thought suddenly striking him. Had C'baoth been able toguide the cruisers so well because each of their thousand-man crews were composed of variants on justtwenty or so different minds? Or—even more disturbing—could part of the Jedi Master's split-secondcontrol have been due to the fact that C'baoth was himself a clone?
And either way, did that mean that the Mount Tantiss project was playing directly into C'baoth's hands inhis bid for power? Perhaps. One more question he would have to bring to Thrawn's attention.
Pellaeon looked down at C'baoth, belatedly remembering that in the Jedi Master's presence such thoughts were not his private property. But C'baoth wasn't looking at him, knowingly or otherwise. He was staring straight ahead, his eyes unfocused, the skin of his face taut. A faint smile just beginning to crease his lips. "Master C'baoth?"
"They're there," C'baoth whispered, his voice deep and husky. "They're there," he repeated, louder thistime.
Pellaeon frowned back at the tactical hologram. "Who's where?" he asked.
"They're at Filve," C'baoth said. Abruptly, he looked up at Pellaeon, his eyes bright and insane. "My Jediare at Filve." "Master C'baoth, confirm that the cruisers have moved to polar positions," Thrawn's voice came sharply.
"Then report on the feint battles—"
"My Jedi are at Filve," C'baoth cut him off. "What do I care about your battles?"
"C'baoth—"
With a wave of his hand, C'baoth shut off the intercom. "Now, Leia Organa Solo," he murmured softly, "you are mine."
Excerpt from The Last Command
C'baoth, communicates with two other task force 4 light-years away, while simultaneously utilizing Battle Meditation to raise the effectiveness Chimaera crew by 40% in every statistical category:
Out of the corner of his eye, he saw Thrawn turn. "Master C'baoth? He said. "What's the status of the attacks in the other two systems?
"They proceed."
Frowning, Pallaeon swiveled around. It had been C'baoth's voice, but do throaty and strained as to be nearly unrecognizable.
As was, indeed, his appearance.
For a long moment Pallaeon stared at him, a cold and feeling in the pit of his stomach. C'baoth sat with unnatural stiffness, his eyes closed but visibly and rapidly moving behind his lids. His hands gripped and arms of his chair, and his lips pressed so tightly together that the veins and cords of his neck stood out. "Are you all right, Mater C'baoth?" He asked.
"Save your concern, Captain," Thrawn told him coldly. "He's doing what he enjoys the most: controlling people."
C'baoth made a sound somewhere between a snort and derisive chuckle.
"I told you once , Grand Admiral Thrawn, that this is not true power."
"So you've said", Thrawn said, his tone neutral. "Can you tell what sort of resistance they're facing?"
C'baoth's frowning face frowned harder. "Not precisely. But neither force is in danger. That much I can feel in their minds."
"Good. Then have Nemesis break off from the rest of its group and report back to the rendezvous to await us"
Pallaeon frowned at the Grand Admiral. "Sir-?"
Thrawn turned to him, a warning gleam in his glowing eyes. "Attend to your duties, Captain," he said.
-and worth sudden flash of insight, Pallaeon realized that this multiedged attack on the New Republic territory was more than simply part of the setupfor the Sluis Van raid. It was, in addition, a test. A test of C'baoth's abilities, yes; but to also test of his willingness to accept orders.
"Yes, Admiral," Pallaeon murmured and turned back to his displays.
The Chimaera was in range now, and tiny sparks started to appear on the tactical holo as the ship's huge turbolaser batteries begin firing.
Communications station flared and went black; planetside industrial targets flared, went dark, then flared again as the secondary fired were ignited. A pair of old Carrak-class light cruisers swept in from star-board, the Chimaera's Tie fighter screen breaking formation to engage them. Off in the distance, the Stomrhawk's batteries were blazing against an orbiting defense platform; the battle seemed to be going well.
Remarkably well, in fact...
An unpleasant feeling began to stir in the pit of Pallaeon's stomach as he checked his board's real-tome status readout. Thus far the Imperial forces had lost only three Tie fighters and sustained superficial damage to the Star Destroyers, compared to eight of the enemy's line ships and eighteen of its fights gone. Granted, the Imperials vastly outgunned the defenders. But still...
Slowly, reluctantly, Pallaeon reached to his board. A few weeks back he'd made up statistical composite of the Chimaera battle profiles for the past year. He called it up, superimposed it over the current analysis.
There was no mistake. In every single category the sub-category of speed, coordination, efficiency, and accuracy, the Chimaera and it's crew were running no less than 40 percent more effective than usual.
He turned to look at C'baoth's strained face, an icy shiver running up his back. He'd never really bought into Thrawn's theory as to how and why the Fleet had lost the Battle of Endor. Certainly he'd never wanted to believe it. But now suddenly, the issue was no longer open to argument.
And with the bulk of his attention and power on the task of mentally communicating with two other task forces nearly four light-years away, C'baoth still had enough left to do all this. Pallaeon had wondered, with a certain private contempt, just what had given the old man a right to add. Master to his title. Now, he knew.
Excerpt from Heir to the Empire
The first feat doesn't even need explaining to be honest, taking over the minds of 37,000 is a colossal feat, what makes it even better is that it was possible, he could have done it for longer then what he did it for, and he was planning to do intricate maneuvers while controlling them since he planned to attack Coruscant. The second one is also impressive, taking complete control over several thousand men crew, while showing split second reaction, them being completely invisible to his sight is impressive. The last bit is, because, since they were invisible, that mean Joruus would have to use Force sense the entire time in order from him to complete the ruse, and react with split second timing the quote even explain that fact.
Gethzerion has some TP feats of her own - so I'm not entirely convinced that Joruus could just Mind Control her immediately (we can discuss that more later),
Hmm. That depends honestly. I think if C'baoth decides to use it from the on-set--I can see her going down pretty quick via feats. Reading Luke's mind is good, but Vader has done the same thing (when Luke was trying his best to prevent it), and his telepathic showing are complete and utter garbage compared to C'baoth. Unless I'm missing some of her Gethzerion's feats (which is possible), she shouldn't be to hard to put down.
whereas Joruus is relatively lacking in defense against Gethzerion's Force Storms. I don't ever recall Joruus displaying Barrier or Protection, so if a Lightning strike hit him, it would spell disaster.
I could concede to that.
Joruus has decent Force Speed showings, but most relate to be faster than non-Force sensitives, to memory, so they aren't very impressive.
I disagree here. C'baoth has the speed feats to suggest he could dodge her lightning. Moving faster to the punch then Luke did is impressive. And so is blocking a blaster bolt with a rock via TK.
Joruus did move faster than Luke at one point, which is a commendable feat, but it doesn't necessarily mean he can just dodge all the Lightning strikes; certainly not easily.
It certainly would not be easy, but given his feats, I say he has a good shot at it.
Also, Gethzerion appears to be more likely to display Force Storms in combat than Joruus would with TP - so I'd argue it would have to be at least as potent an edge.
I can conceded to this. Though, I don't think it would matter as much. I see C'baoth winning with Lightning, seeing as how he's is quicker to the draw given his feats.
The other area where Gethzerion shines is telekinesis, where she vastly exceeds Joruus.
I can agree there, but I don't think C'baoth would be ragdolled.
We can discuss whether it's enough to ragdoll him or not later, but for now, I will leave behind quotes to simply identify the sheer potency of Gethzerion's telekinesis.
Stomping Luke via ragdolling him, smashing the right side of his face as if with a hammer, then causing Luke's arms and legs to fail him.
That is an impressive feat, but I think Luke was unexpected which could have played a small part in her domination....or it's just me nitpicking. :P
Killing General Melvar plus one hundred Stormtroopers with merely a gesture:
This feat is especially impressive.
Breaking Han Solo's bones and popping his teeth:
Meh. that's isn't really anything special. it's decent, but pales in comparison with they above.
All of that out of the way, I agree Joruus is inferior in terms of telekinetic power, but he is very powerful in his own right.
C'baoth's greatest TK feat is Joruus hurling a volley of small rocks at incredible speeds with enough Force to damage Mara Jade's ship, it not only damages the ship, but it also sends it flying out of the sky by damaging it's repulser lifts:
The rim of the mountain surrounding the lake was visible now on the electropulse scanner, and the infrared had picked up an inhabited structure on the far side. Probably where Skywalker and this mad Jedi Master were, she decided, a guess that was confirmed a moment later as the sensors picked up a small mass of spaceship-grade metal just outside the building. There were no weapons emplacement or defense shields anywhere that she could detect, either on the rim or on the island beneath her. Maybe C'baoth didn't think be needed anything so primitive as turbolasers to protect him. Maybe he was right. Hunching herself over the control board, hair-trigger alert for any danger, Mara headed in.
She was nearly to midpoint of the crater when the attack came, a sudden impact on the Skipray's underside that kicked the entire craft a few centimeters upward. The second came on the heels of the first, this one centered on the ventral fin and yawing the ship hard to starboard. The ship jolted a third a time before Mara finally identified the weapon: it wasn't missiles or the laser blast, but small, fast-moving rocks, undetectable by most of the Skipay's sophisticated sensors.
The fourth impact knocked out the repulsorlifts, sending the Skipay falling out the sky.
Mara swore under her breath, throwing the Skipray's control surfaces into glide. Mode and keying for a contour scan of the cliff face beneath the rim building. A landing up on the rim was out of the question now; putting down on the limited are up there without her repulserlifts might be possible, but not with a Jedi Master fighting her the whole way. Alternately, she could go for the dark island beneath her, which would give her more room to operate but leave her with the problem of getting back up to the rim. Ditto if she tried to find a big enough landing are somewhere else down mountains.
Or she could admit defeat, fire up the main drive and pull for space, and go after Karde alone.
Gritting her teeth, she studied the contour scan. The rock storm had stopped after the fourth hit -- the Jedi Master, no doubt, waiting to see if she'd crash without further encouragement on his part. With little luck, maybe she could convince him that she was done for without actually wrecking the ship in the process. If she could just find the proper formation in the cliff face . . .
--Excerpt from Dark Force Rising
Just to get a feel for the size of the ship Mara was piloting, here is a pic of it below:
This is a great TK feat if I can say so myself. C'baoth had to throwing the rocks at a considerable amount of speed for them to damage to a ship that size, while it flies hundreds of feet in the air.
Using TK, C'baoth stops an projectile shot from a crossbow in midair:
The words were barely out of his mouth when the guard suddenly snapped the crossbow up and fired.
Instinctively, Pellaeon ducked, raising his blaster— And three meters from the Imperials the bolt came to an abrupt halt in midair. Pellaeon stared at the hovering piece of wood and metal, his brain only slowly catching up with what had just happened. "They are our guests," C'baoth told the guard in a voice clearly intended to reach everyone in the square. "They will be treated accordingly."
--Excerpt from Heir to the Empire
Joruus proceeds to blocks a blaster bolt with a flat stone he levitated via TK,
Thrawn let him stand there another second like that, then gestured to Rukh. The Noghri raised his blaster
and fired—
And in a blur of motion almost too fast to see, a flat stone detached itself from the ground and hurled itself directly into the path of the shot, shattering spectacularly as the blast hit it.
Thrawn spun to face C'baoth, his face a mirror of surprise and anger. "C'baoth—!"
"These aremy people, Grand Admiral Thrawn," the other cut him off, his voice forged from quiet steel.
"Not yours; mine. If there is punishment to be dealt out,I will do it."
Excerpt from Heir to the Empire
Via Force Sream (presumably) brings an entire ceiling down:
"What do you think?" she retorted. "I'm going to finish the job. Like I should have done on Jomark."
Slowly, C'baoth raised his eyes to her. "You will die for this, Mara Jade," he said, his quiet voice more chilling than any outburst of rage could have been. "Slowly, and in great pain." Taking a deep breath, curling his hands into fists in front of his chest, he closed his eyes.
"We'll see about that," Mara muttered. Raising her lightsaber, she started toward him.
It began as a distant rumble, more felt than really heard. Luke looked around the room, senses tingling with a premonition of danger. But he could see nothing out of place. The sound grew louder, deeper— And with a thunderous explosion, the sections of throne room ceiling directly above him and Mara suddenly collapsed in a downpour of gravel-sized rocks.
"Look out!" Luke shouted, throwing his arms up to protect his head and trying to leap out of the way. But the center of the rockfall moved with him. He tried again, this time nearly losing his balance as his foot caught in a pile of stones already ankle deep. Too numerous and too small for him to get a grip on through the Force, they kept coming, pummeling against him with bruising impact. Through the dust swirling around him, he saw Mara floundering under a deluge of her own, trying to guard her head with one arm as she slashed vainly at the falling stones with her lightsaber. From across the throne room, Luke could hear Han shouting something, and guessed that they, too, were under the same attack. And standing untouched by the destructive rock storms he'd unleashed, C'baoth lifted his hands high. "I am the Jedi Master C'baoth!" he shouted, his voice ringing through the throne room and the roar of the rockfalls. "The Empire—the universe—is mine.
--Except from The Last Command
Now whether a Force Scream translate to raw TK or just raw Force power in general is up for discussion. So I await your output on that quote in particular.
I think C'baoth TK feats are sufficient enough to prevent him from being rag-dolled--to be frank. I also believe Joruus TK feats and overall strength in the Force supersedes Luke during the CoPL. Luke even admit Joruus was much more powerful then he was during the Rebellion era:
Artoo seemed to consider that, pointed out a possible flaw in the reasoning. "I didn't say it was the tightest theory in the galaxy," Luke growled at him, a glimmer of annoyance peeking through his fatigue. "Maybe I'm way off the mark. But if I'm not, it's possible that the five other Jedi Masters from the Outbound Flight project wound up anchored to Master C'baoth."
Artoo whistled thoughtfully. "Right," Luke agreed ruefully. "It didn't bother me any to have Ben around—in fact, I wish he had talked to me more often. But Master C'baoth was a lot more powerful than I was. Maybe it was different with him."
Excerpt from Dark Force Rising
Now whether this quote included late Rebellion era Luke or pre-ESB is debatable...but that what this thread is for. xP
and it is just as likely to be used as Joruus's Lightning, on top of being harder to avoid.
I can agree here, but Joruus Lightning is very deadly when he ceases to hold back, and I think he's quicker to the draw, and since I see this as a who-hit-first scenario, that is important.
There's more I can post, but I would like to refrain from posting everything in my first post, especially since Gethzerion herself has limited appearances (one novel, only).
Cool
I am also not fully decided on my verdict of the outcome. I'd lean towards a majority for Gethzerion, but I'm not entirely sure how much yet. I'd prefer to discuss varying issues with you first before I make a judgment or post anymore, so I'll just leave it with an introduction to Gethzerion's best feats.
Hmmm. So far I'm not entirely sure either. I'm leaning towards C'baoth because he faster to the draw to be frank, and I've laready showed his lightning is devastating . Plus, he can end the battle with TP if he unleashes it fully. Gathzerion can also win via Force Stroms and possibly telekinetic attacks.
I would like to discuss this more before I hand out any number, so at the moment, I'm just going to give C'baoth a slight edge.
@dccomicsrule2011: I'll try responding now. I don't have much time but I should still be able to get something out.
Fair enough. But I see this as a who hit first scenario, I think speed could play a part here. And seeing as how it could play a part, C'baoth is clearly better in that category:
Fair enough, but I'm not entirely convinced C'baoth is so clearly superior. Gethzerion may be lacking in material, but she has this:
Gethzerion must have recognized that staying on the ground to fight was futile, for she leaped up the gangplank of the Imperial ship faster than Han would have believed possible.
Source: The Courtship of Princess Leia
"...faster than Han would have believed possible." What does that mean, really? If it only translates to being faster than humanly possible, then I would vouch for C'baoth to be faster, but I feel as though it could perhaps mean something more. Han has repeatedly seen Luke move before, and other Force sensitives such as Vader, so there should be no reason for him to be doubting the possibility of another Force user moving just as fast as them. If it was faster than Han could find possible, I'm inclined to believe Gethzerion was moving faster than all the iterations of Luke Han has seen (basically all iterations up to TCopL) and faster than Vader. And to that end, I find that Gethzerion could very well at least match C'baoth.
So, it's all up to interpretation and how you choose to view the wording.
True. But Joruus, did cast an aura of drowsiness on Jomark during DFR. it's quite possible he did this only because he was on his home planet, but I don't think that was stated anywhere:
Using telepathic means, C'baoth induces drowsiness on Mara Jade to the point she falls alseep while piloting the Skipray, it's only after she is a meter way from the Force blocking Ysalamir, the fatigue effect wains
This telepathic trick even worked on Luke Skywalker, as it was later shown:
Now it's debatable whether or not he will use such a trick here, but that is why we're in this thread: to debate.
Maybe. I don't believed it was used in a combative situation and I doubt C'baoth would choose to simply induce drowsiness or utilize TP immediately on somebody he has never met before, in a fight. The odds of that happening are simply unlikely, in my opinion.
Joruus Lightning has the necessary power to win the match for him alone, and giving the fact he is very quick to the draw, I can see him winning with this tactic.
His Lightning showings are good, but not as viable as Gethzerion's telekinesis. Gethzerion doesn't gather visible energy or power unlike Joruus, and internal telekinesis cannot be dodged, whereas Lightning could potentially be dodged (as it has been before), though I wouldn't say the latter is likely either.
Hmm. That depends honestly. I think if C'baoth decides to use it from the on-set--I can see her going down pretty quick via feats. Reading Luke's mind is good, but Vader has done the same thing (when Luke was trying his best to prevent it), and his telepathic showing are complete and utter garbage compared to C'baoth. Unless I'm missing some of her Gethzerion's feats (which is possible), she shouldn't be to hard to put down.
I didn't say Gethzerion was going to rival Joruus in TP, which is obviously not the case, but that her Force Storms could be just as potent as his TP. Her Storm could prevent him from utilizing TP, in the sense that he would have to repeatedly avoid being struck by the lightning (which Gethzerion appears to be able to control), which might distract him from using TP, simply because he wouldn't want to be hit (because if he did get hit, that would be an instantaneous win for Gethzerion).
Also, CoPL Luke's power showings are much greater than RotJ's, so I would assume reading his mind then is better than Vader reading his mind in RotJ. She is still clearly inferior to C'baoth, but I'm not convinced it would be easy for him to take her down.
I disagree here. C'baoth has the speed feats to suggest he could dodge her lightning. Moving faster to the punch then Luke did is impressive. And so is blocking a blaster bolt with a rock via TK.
Maybe, but then he wouldn't be able to do anything, so Gethzerion could just switch to TK to surprise him and take him out. C'baoth needs some level of concentration to use his powers, and he'll get struck by Lightning if he remains in one spot concentrating.
I can agree there, but I don't think C'baoth would be ragdolled.
I do. Her showings are just much better.
That is an impressive feat, but I think Luke was unexpected which could have played a small part in her domination....or it's just me nitpicking. :P
Nah. He clearly couldn't have done anything regardless.
C'baoth's greatest TK feat is Joruus hurling a volley of small rocks at incredible speeds with enough Force to damage Mara Jade's ship, it not only damages the ship, but it also sends it flying out of the sky by damaging it's repulser lifts:
It's good in the quantity of rocks being thrown, and their velocity, but otherwise, it's not overly impressive. It just damaged the repulsors and otherwise jerked the ship. It's good, but not comparable to instantly killing entire legions of troops with a gesture. Really, it's just throwing plenty of rocks at a fast speed. That's it. The quantity and velocity was what resulted in the damage to the repulsors.
Using TK, C'baoth stops an projectile shot from a crossbow in midair:
Joruus proceeds to blocks a blaster bolt with a flat stone he levitated via TK,
These are pretty average showings. The latter is a decent showing of precision, but not power.
Via Force Sream (presumably) brings an entire ceiling down:
This is more impressive, but really isn't that comparable either.
Now whether a Force Scream translate to raw TK or just raw Force power in general is up for discussion. So I await your output on that quote in particular.
Maybe raw Force power, but it might not be interchangeable with TK. It's an involuntary power so I doubt it would be used here, but if it did, it might delay Gethzerion.
I think C'baoth TK feats are sufficient enough to prevent him from being rag-dolled--to be frank. I also believe Joruus TK feats and overall strength in the Force supersedes Luke during the CoPL. Luke even admit Joruus was much more powerful then he was during the Rebellion era:
Well, CoPL Luke isn't Rebellion Luke. The other thing is, Gethzerion didn't simply ragdoll Luke. She also tore open blood vessels in his brain, and such powerful internal displays of telekinesis is actually just so much more impressive than just ragdolling somebody in the sense of throwing them about in the externally physical world.
So I don't find it unimaginable for Gethzerion to ragdoll C'baoth. She might not be able to tear open blood vessels in his brain, but she should be able to throw him about in the external, physical world. Really, C'baoth has no telekinetic showings to compete.
I can agree here, but Joruus Lightning is very deadly when he ceases to hold back, and I think he's quicker to the draw, and since I see this as a who-hit-first scenario, that is important.
I don't believe he is quicker, as I addressed above, and Gethzerion's TK > Joruus's Lightning. That would be the prime factor as to why I believe she would win.
Hmmm. So far I'm not entirely sure either. I'm leaning towards C'baoth because he faster to the draw to be frank, and I've laready showed his lightning is devastating . Plus, he can end the battle with TP if he unleashes it fully. Gathzerion can also win via Force Stroms and possibly telekinetic attacks.
I would like to discuss this more before I hand out any number, so at the moment, I'm just going to give C'baoth a slight edge.
Your move.
I still don't believe Joruus is faster. Han's description of Gethzerion's speed seems to indicate she can easily compete with him in Force Speed showings.
For TP, I find it unlikely. It's possible, but he would need concentration, which often includes standing still in one spot. Gethzerion could just call in a Lightning Storm from the onset of the fight, and then slip in a lightning strike here and there whilst Joruus concentrates to utilize his telepathic abilities, and he becomes a skeleton.
For me, I find her Storm to be as potent as Joruus's TP, whereas her TK should be slightly more effective than Joruus's Lightning, which is why I'd present her with the victory, in a good fight.
i can see the large walls of texts already beginning again <__<
You'll have to bear with it in a debate between somebody like me or DC. Considering these characters are already fairly limited in material to begin with. Just skip reading the quotes, then.
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