CaV: Darth Malgus (Wollfmyth) vs Ulic Qel-Droma (ILS)

This is a follow up debate from this thread, me and Wollf decided it'd be better settled as a CaV, so here we are. For some context find our initial debate in the spoiler block below.

The debate will pick up where it left off with me replying to Wollf.

Settings

• Both combatants are in their prime (False Emperor Malgus 3641BBY) (Dark Lord of the Sith Ulic 3996BBY)
• Standard equipment
• No prior knowledge
• In character
• Fight to the death

Location

Good luck Wollf, should be a stellar debate.

@wollfmyth209 Here it is, first post will be up soon.

@i_like_swords:

You forgot to add my second counter post in our debate. It's this one:

Wollf:

Which is also due to his speed, as much as his skill. And Null was never that impressive a swordsman to begin with. Malgus has at least bested Satele Shan while decades before his prime. And Shan in her Hope incarnation at least has the feat of briefly stalemating Darth Baras and some accolades here and there, whereas Null is pretty much featless by all accounts.

stalemating a fellow top tier swordsman in Exar Kun in a fight that could have lasted hours (Dark Side Sourcebook). and would have ended in both of their deaths (Power of the Jedi sourcebook);

A pre-prime Exar Kun, who at the time didn't have any good feats other than stomping Crado and Sylvar(the former is featless, the latter was pre-prime).

and stalemating Sylvar without any connection to the Force, out of his physical prime and while only fighting defensively.

It usually is a stalemate when one fighter fights defensively and successfully holds off the other fighter. And Ulic fled most of the fight. And Malgus would perform similarly, mostly due to his superior levels of strength and durability in regards to Ulic at the time.

Ulic just comes off as faster, more precise and more refined.

Faster, yes. Though nothing you've presented so far shows precision or refinement.

I'd have to disagree on the premise that the feat is about as good as Ulic slaughtering Warb Null, except Ulic was sapped of strength and a novice at the time of his feat.

Has Null fodderized some of the best of the Empire and been regarded as a superior to the likes of Battlemaster Kao Cen Darach? Malgus beating Zallow is better than Ulic beating Null. Ulic being pre-prime and being hindered means that he'd be on par or slightly superior to Malgus in his prime.

Malgus has more showings in the offensive department, but I wouldn't write Ulic off too easily.

For starters, Ulic's Force power is "far beyond" any member of the Krath; the Keto's, being specific.

• Satal has been shown mind controlling hundreds of pilots into suicide bombing a capital ship

• Aleema has projected illusions so large they looked to swallow a fleet of capital ships (they fooled every pilot and Jedi aboard aside from Nomi Sunrider)

• and has also used a Force blast to reduce a man to a charred skeleton (this feat being done after just a few months of the years she would spend developing her talent in Sith magic).

Yes, but Ulic, for the most part, uses the Force defensively. He's never demonstrated any use of offensive powers in a duel.

The disparity between her and Ulic is demonstrated when Aleema tries to blast Exar Kun, at which point her assault gets absorbed and she's dismissed easily, whereas Ulic circa the same time period is "the only Sith practitioner who can challenge Kun" (Databank) and proceeds to stalemate him in a duel.

So Kun took down Aleema with the Force, but engaged Ulic in a duel. How is that suppose to prove Ulic is offensively power?

So, aside from being far more powerful than those two (meaning Ulic's own Force blasts are vastly more powerful than Aleema's after a few months of training), we know that over the two year time skip Ulic crafted his own Sith Talisman into a gauntlet akin to Exar's; this can only be because he wanted to enhance his ability to channel the Force through it, ergo, Ulic after the timeskip should logically be a fair bit more powerful than his self prior to it.

Alright. So he's far more powerful than Aleema or Satal. So is Malgus.

With that noted, and already accounting for what I said about the Keto's:

• Ulic was already able to incapacitate Jedi (Nomi) with Force lightning from just waving around his Talisman

• And even threatened to kill his group of old Jedi friends (and they seemed to agree with the deadliness of Ulic's lightning, calling it "deadly").

Nomi never struck me as that powerful a Jedi defensively, tbh. The majority of her feats are TP-wise or unorthodox and arcane. In terms of TK or defensive abilities she never demonstrated much. And Jedi calling Ulic's Lightning deadly is like Teneb and Marr calling the latter's Lightning deadly when he produced it, but no results were shown. For all we know, it could've just incapacitated them. It's speculation that he could actually kill them with it.

Post-timeskip Ulic? More than likely rocking energy projection more than capable of matching Malgus' own, which just like pre-timeskip Ulic, is capable of killing groups of Jedi and ravaging non-Force sensitive bodies.

I doubt that. Ulic has never actually used it to kill Jedi, and the best you have for him being capable of doing so is him being more powerful than Aleema, who can kill non-Force Sensitives but not Jedi, and Ulic's old Jedi allies calling his Lightning "deadly" and him incapacitated an unready Nomi, who by herself isn't that powerful defensively. Meanwhile, pre-prime Malgus has killed three Jedi with Lightning, and has forced a group that can consist of Darth Nox or Barsen'Thor(two highly powerful Force users) to kneel down without even using it to it's highest degree.

As for telekinesis, while it's likely not Ulic's strongest suit given his dedication to energy channelling and projection, it's worth noting that his feats of...

Blasting Tott and Cay (which is impressive given that Tott Doneeta would later on hold back a town-sized heat storm with Barrier)

He blasted them while they had their defenses down and while Tott didn't have his Barrier active. Malgus would do the same.

And smashing apart his metal/stone restraints (after being tortured for hours)

That's decent. But Malgus's feat of pushing back tons of rubble and rock while pre-prime and fatally injured is superior.

...were both done without his talisman and prior to the two year timeskip. If nothing else he's displayed as a powerful telekinetic, and that's without truly mastering his power over the years to come alongside picking up an amulet dedicated channelling the Force more efficiently.

Alright. His talisman only boosts his energy based attacks like Lightning or blasts, IIRC. So they are irrelevant for telekinesis and not worth bringing up.

A Force contest between Malgus and Ulic could even potentially end up in Ulic's favour depending on how you want to interpret his relationship to Exar Kun and so on, but I'll settle for them being comparable since Ulic hasn't been expounded on in massive detail.

Alright, I can agree that Ulic is comparable as a Force user.

@wollfmyth209: I was going to quote and reply to that for my first post, which is why I didn't add it. But it's probably best people can see it anyway.

@i_like_swords: Oh OK. Proceed then. I look forwards to this debate.

I made a new picture for you because the current one sucked. Awaiting the thread!