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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Young Solid Snake

Early Luke Skywalker

Standard Gear for Both

In Character

Battle here. Snake Blue. Luke Green.

#2 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by dondave (38797 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@cadencev2: Is Luke limited to the movies?

Honestly I doubt it. I am pretty sure their is Novels of his Rebellion Era days.

#5 Posted by nickzambuto (14437 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 Are you exclusively using comic book Snake? Or are you gonna mix it up with the games?

#6 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 Are you exclusively using comic book Snake? Or are you gonna mix it up with the games?

I will use Comic Book, as it is not fair to mix it with the games which have clearly different ways the battles played out as well some parts of the mission.

I think Comic Books feat cannot mix with MGS or MGS2 Games, however still fit the rest of the Game Franchise.

Also ever saw Philatropy on Youtube? It was freaking awesome, and all fan made! I seen Sci Fi Channel Movies that looked terrible and cheap compared to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSGXLQD0PoY

Awesome flick.

#7 Edited by nickzambuto (14437 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@cadencev2 Are you exclusively using comic book Snake? Or are you gonna mix it up with the games?

I will use Comic Book, as it is not fair to mix it with the games which have clearly different ways the battles played out as well some parts of the mission.

I think Comic Books feat cannot mix with MGS or MGS2 Games, however still fit the rest of the Game Franchise.

Also ever saw Philatropy on Youtube? It was freaking awesome, and all fan made! I seen Sci Fi Channel Movies that looked terrible and cheap compared to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSGXLQD0PoY

Awesome flick.

I actually haven't gotten around to watching that yet. I really should one day though...

#8 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (26189 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 How does the set up look?

Nice =P So do you want to go first or should I?

I will go ahead.

Lets look at Solid Snake's Bio in order.

Which gives us our current hero of IDW Comics.

Solid Snake has a 180 IQ, near Super Human physical abilities, and is considered one of the best Martial Artist / Marksmen in the world.

He also has a host of awesome gear.

His Nanites allow him to never suffer severe Stamina issues as well heal quickly. He also has built in Radar system that tracks bio signatures. He also carries HVGs (Heat Vision Goggles), Rope, and the infamous Card Board Box.

He also has a host of Weapons. Nikita Missile Launcher, Socom with Silencers, M9 Tranquilizer, M-4 with Laser, C4, Frag Grenades, Claymores, Stun Grenades, Flash Bangs, Chaff Grenades, and Combat Knife.

Now what makes this fair is Luke is not a God Jedi at this point. In fact he is mediocre average Jedi with less training. That is Snake biggest advantage. Luke is poorly train in Saber Combat, Hand to Hand, and has zero training that I know of against Bullets. His stats are like wise near super Human instead of Superhuman like the more accomplish Jedi feats of Obi Wan, Yoda, ect...

So with this in mind Snake will do what he does best, Sneak around for a good spot to shoot.

As Mei Ling says, these Genome Soldiers are Gene Enhanced with superior senses to the normal peak human soldier. Snake easy stealths them. Now Luke has the ability to sense others, but as the movies and some novels show, it is not accurate form of detetction, it rarely tells the force user exactly where.

Snake can use his stealth to his advantage.

From there he will fire a few Nikita Missiles (knowing full well where Luke is to the Radar) and get a good feel of his opponents if Snake does not out right kill Luke with the missile.

Your move :)

#11 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by jwalser3 (5260 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Really interested in seeing how this is going down. Keep me posted, and tag me when you're ready for votes?

#13 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3 said:

@cadencev2: Really interested in seeing how this is going down. Keep me posted, and tag me when you're ready for votes?

well do.

#14 Posted by NeonGameWave (8449 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to be interesting!

#15 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (26189 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I forgot about this lol I will get to this in the morning

#17 Edited by i_like_swords (16609 posts) - - Show Bio

@amogah: Are you aware that CAV matches involve two people, and you're not meant to but in? Lol

Online
#18 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@amogah: Your new by your post count, so it is alright this time. Please delete your post as this is a challenge to just myself and DCCR on who is a better debater for their respective characters.

Fair assessment though.

#19 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (26189 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Okay here is a starter post:

Telepathy

Here Luke casually mind controls an Imperial officer:

Well these are from Truce Of Bakura which happen like days after ROTJ so the feats should still be usable

Luke resists the effects of Bluescale's hypnotic eye.

“Back,” Luke ordered. The alien’s head turned. A deep black eye focused in his direction, and the nose-tongues flicked toward him. He channeled Force energy into his words. “Get away from her.” The eye seemed to swirl like a dark storm, beckoning for attention, sucking at his will. Unquestionably this one, or another like him, kept Dev Sibwarra leashed.

--Taken from

The Truce at Bakura

Luke undoes Dev's brainwashing and restores his memories.

Now

, urged his inner sense. He reached deep into the Force and felt for the hypnotic control that twisted Dev Sibwarra to the aliens’ will. The shadow of something enormous darkened most of Dev’s memories. The boy had tremendous strength in the Force, though. Luke wrapped his will around the dark, roiling blockage and blasted it with light. Dev tottered backward against another table. In an instant, his mind had flooded with horrific recollections. His anger coalesced, small and stunted but as fierce as a P’w’eck invasion army. Disoriented, he blinked. The monstrous Skywalker had suddenly become fellow human. He didn’t feel depressed, just furious. He couldn’t need renewal...unless...

He stared up at Skywalker, who still stood on the tabletop, and caught a glint of keen eyes and the grim set of his chin. Dev strokes hid throbbing, clumsy left hand, remembering how he’d injured it. Firwirrung! His master had bound him with tender loyalty over years of abusive manipulation. Dev opened his eyes wide to the world, forsaking his squint. He’d never felt such agony or regret, yet so glad to be human. Despite everything they had done...had done...he was battered but whole.

“Are you all right?” whistled Bluscale.

A shiver took him. He remembered everything now, including the speech habits he’d picked up during his imprisonment. “I’m all right. Are you, Elder?”

“Tell the Jedi to hurry along with us. Promise anything.”

Realization flashed through him: The Ssi-ruuk meant to reduce humankind to breeding animals and energy sources. They would lie, ill, torture, and maim to achieve domination. They deserved nothing but hatred. Luke Skywalker called down from the tabletop, “Hate is of the dark side. Don’t give into it.”

Had the Jedi plunged him through depression into total release?

“What?” asked Master Firwirrung. “What is he saying to you?”

Confused, Dev answered automatically. “He apologized for killing one of our kind, Master.”

“Tell him to precede us outside. He must hurry.”

Dev looked back up. In human speech, he said, “They want you to—“ A piercing siren echoed through the cantina. Abruptly Dev remembered the most terrible moment of his childhood, a civil defense scramble alarm. Invasion under way. He snapped back to the present and started at his masters, stricken. Had Admiral Ivpikkis attacked the orbiting ships after all? He’d promised that the Ssi-ruuk would withdraw if Skywalker came with them. One more link in their twisted chain of lies!

--Taken from

The Truce at Bakura

Here Luke scans the minds of 40 to 50 people

Luke opened himself to listen through the Force. A babble surrounded him, the textures of forty or fifty nervous minds. Narrowing his focus, he reached straight across the chamber toward a massive repulsor chair, all gold and purples except for two banks of controls on the armrests. Wilek Nereus must have caught a faster shuttle. He sat there already, with his double-mindedness coming through as strongly as ever. Luke let his attention drift leftward, observing the senators’ reactions to Leia. He sensed curiosity tinged with hostility, but a dark undercurrent of fear also pervaded the chamber. This world was under attack.

--Taken from The Truce at Bakura

Here Luke mind controls a Dragonsnake:

Speed

Luke sees TIE Fighters which are flying at sublight speeds in slow motion:

Luke reached out. The Force was here, as it was everywhere, and it was no harder to touch deep in space than it was in the swamps on Dagobah. He let it fill him. The TIE fighters suddenly seemed to be moving slower. Luke’s hands flew over the controls; he moved the stick with sharp and precise movements. Swung to his starboard and lit the lasers, double-tapped the fire button.

Lines of fire lanced out and shattered one, two of the four TIE fighters. The explosion spat a hard spray of wreckage at him as Luke looped away. Shards of the destroyed TIEs sleeted against the X-wing’s transparisteel canopy, a meal and plastic hail.

--Taken from

Shadows of the Empire

Here he moves faster the the eye could see:

He moved faster than S’ybll could keep track of him, and jumped over and behind a fragment of a broken lintel.

--Taken from A New Hope: The Life of Luke Skywalker

Here Luke deflects fire from a dozen shooters:

When a man comes at you with a blaster spewing, you don't stand there asking stupid questions. Luke snatched his lightsaber from his belt, lit it, and whipped it up in a right inward block as he slid to the side. A blaster bolt splashed from the blade in a shower of red and orange sparks. The air stank suddenly of ozone. The techs were unarmed, and Luke saw two of them take hits and go down. The others scrambled for cover.

Koth Melan produced a small weapon and returned fire, hitting the lead attacker right between the eyes. The attacker fell backward. There were more behind him, boiling through the shattered doorway. Luke leaped forward, circled his lightsaber into a horizontal slash, and took down the next man through the door. Melan fired. The bolt sizzled past Luke's left ear and hit the third man incoming.

Beyond that, Luke saw, there were at least a dozen more shooters crowding toward the doorway. Maybe more. It wasn't as if he had time to do a precise count here—

More energy beams cooked the air, scorching past Luke and spearing computer consoles and technicians alike.

"Too many of them!" Melan yelled. "This way!"

Luke wove a curtain of hard light with his blade, deflecting blaster bolts and driving the attackers back temporarily.

--Taken from Shadows of the Empire

TK

Here Luke shows the ability to hold up a AT-ST:

Shows the ability to use saber throw:

Luke flung the saber in a long spinning arc. The big brown Ssi-ruu fell headless as the saber spun back into Luke's hand.

--Taken from The Truce at Bakura

Luke has even been able to activate machines across Cloud City, lift a a rock that was stated to weigh tons, use TK to unlock himself from a prison door etc,etc. But unfortunately I do not have the scans for those on me. I will have a rebuttal for your post up later.

#20 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

Telepathy

Here Luke casually mind controls an Imperial officer:

Well these are from Truce Of Bakura which happen like days after ROTJ so the feats should still be usable

Luke resists the effects of Bluescale's hypnotic eye.

--Taken from

The Truce at Bakura

Luke undoes Dev's brainwashing and restores his memories.

--Taken from

The Truce at Bakura

Here Luke scans the minds of 40 to 50 people

--Taken from The Truce at Bakura

Here Luke mind controls a Dragonsnake:

Very Impressive. Lucky for Snake he is immune to Mind Control.

This is Psycho Mantis. A very powerful telepath who mentally dominated the entire Genome Army to work for Liquid.

Mantis Mind Controls Meryl.

Mantis mind screws Gray Fox.

In fact he is so powerful that after years of his death, he ends up possessing Screaming Mantis and still manifests his soul to confront Snake!

All that power. Yet Snake's TP resistance is just incredible.

Snake full battle with Mantis. Mantis tries to kill him through Meryl. Then tries to Mind Illusion him which Snake sees through.Then tries TK him. He goes as far to make him feel like he is burning to death. the best part is he could not see Snakes next move via Mind Reading. Mantis has Precognition and he could not see Snakes destiny as Snake said, he forged his destiny.

Mind tricks are no good here.

Speed

Luke sees TIE Fighters which are flying at sublight speeds in slow motion:

--Taken from

Shadows of the Empire

Here he moves faster the the eye could see:

--Taken from A New Hope: The Life of Luke Skywalker

Here Luke deflects fire from a dozen shooters:

--Taken from Shadows of the Empire

Yes, Luke is very fast and needs to actively use the force to be so. Snake is not so bad himself.

Skip to 1:50-3:00. Even as a youngster his skill with a pistol is insane.Here he is more seasoned and even better skilled.

Ocelot is a insane marksman. Ocelot tries to ambush him to no avail, and then cannot tag Snake who smartly harms Ocelot via steam pipe.

This fight is interrupted by the Cyborg Ninja.

The Cyborg Ninja is insane fast, strong, and has a Sword that cut anything..... kinda like a Lightsaber. Take note, as Snake does not allow that sword to touch him! Snake keeps up fine in a confide space thanks to Speed, Skill, Muscle Memory from years of the best Training, and plain Super Human Genes.

As I said, the Cyborg Ninja is insane fast. Unlike a Jedi who sees the shots before they come, this Cyborg Ninja simply moves much faster than mass amount of Mach 2 Bullets at 10 feet distance.

In this epic fight, Snake is physically able to match the Ninja. To make this more Impressive is the Cyborg Ninja resume!

This is Grey Fox. One of the best killers in the world and most accomplish member of Fox Hound. At the time he was leagues better than Snake in rankings. On top of this, Fox was already Super Human before being a Cyborg Ninja.

Null is Gray Foxes old name. A Super Human in speed and skill. Snake battled this guy and whats really impressive is he kept up, out H2H skill, and top it off actually had the strength and moves to harm this Super Armor Exosuit.

I have more examples of super speed foes that Snake beaten in H2H, save those for later.

TK

Here Luke shows the ability to hold up a AT-ST:

Shows the ability to use saber throw:

--Taken from The Truce at Bakura

Luke has even been able to activate machines across Cloud City, lift a a rock that was stated to weigh tons, use TK to unlock himself from a prison door etc,etc. But unfortunately I do not have the scans for those on me. I will have a rebuttal for your post up later.

Pretty useful, again nothing Snake has not fought before. Snake first goal is to kill while using stealth. His second is kill from distance. He does not engage in hand to hand unless he has too.

Given all the Gear he has here, his best bet is setting Claymores and C4 traps.

I still think with this environment it be easy for Snake to use his superior skills to stay out of sight and with the radar keep track of Luke while setting his traps.

Then Nikita Missiles at Luke from Cover. Snake is a very good marksmen.

Here he expertly and with great speed suppress Sniper Wolf.

Here he dodges Sniper Wolfs shots running for better positions, then spots here, shoots, and kill her before she can shoot Hal.

Sniper Wolf, one of the best Snipers in the world.

Now I am not saying he carries PSG out here, too much weight, but I am saying his skill with any weapon is pretty insane.

1:10 - 1:25. Snake makes this expert shot with no laser or scope.

He can easily set off a C4 blast, cause Luke to look that way for a second, and Blam!

#21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Edited by AonoSawada (142 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: (DCCR) here Sorry about taking so long to respond I completely forgot about this =( Now if your still up for it, let's get down to business...

Now what makes this fair is Luke is not a God Jedi at this point.

That's true.

In fact he is mediocre average Jedi with less training.That is Snake biggest advantage. Luke is poorly train in Saber Combat,

That's completely false, Luke during Rebellion era, was a perfect equal with Darth Vader in terms of dueling skills:

The fight this time was far more balanced. Vader discovered that Luke was his match, and, once again, the Sith Lord found his thoughts straying to an alliance between them against the Emperor.

Luke had indeed grown powerful since Bespin, and he was an equal match for his father.

--Taken from The Official Star Wars Fact File #111

Hand to Hand,

His H2H skills may not be the best but he does have some showings.

and has zero training that I know of against Bullets.

Does not matter blaster bolts and bullets are around the same speed and there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

His stats are like wise near super Human instead of Superhuman

lol what? Luke is superhuman with ease I might say.

like the more accomplish Jedi feats of Obi Wan,

Him and Obi-Wan are roughly even during this era, in fact I would favor Luke over him.

Yoda,

Fair enough.

So with this in mind Snake will do what he does best, Sneak around for a good spot to shoot.

As Mei Ling says, these Genome Soldiers are Gene Enhanced with superior senses to the normal peak human soldier. Snake easy stealths them.

Fair enough.

Now Luke has the ability to sense others, but as the movies and some novels show, it is not accurate form of detetction, it rarely tells the force user exactly where.

Luke's sensing ability will be enough to detect Snake. This guy has been able too "see" a black hole, and this is while injured to boot:

Snake can use his stealth to his advantage.

Luke can and will detect Snake.

From there he will fire a few Nikita Missiles (knowing full well where Luke is to the Radar) and get a good feel of his opponents if Snake does not out right kill Luke with the missile.

Luke would have no problem dodging this missile, hell he may even be able to redirect it seeing as how he has supported a falling AT-ST with his TK:

AT-ST's weighs over 16 tons.

Very Impressive. Lucky for Snake he is immune to Mind Control.

Mind tricks are no god here.

Cool, that's a cop out way to win anyway lol.

Yes, Luke is very fast and needs to actively use the force to be so. Snake is not so bad himself.

Skip to 1:50-3:00. Even as a youngster his skill with a pistol is insane.Here he is more seasoned and even better skilled.

Ocelot is a insane marksman. Ocelot tries to ambush him to no avail, and then cannot tag Snake who smartly harms Ocelot via steam pipe.

This fight is interrupted by the Cyborg Ninja.

The Cyborg Ninja is insane fast, strong, and has a Sword that cut anything..... kinda like a Lightsaber. Take note, as Snake does not allow that sword to touch him! Snake keeps up fine in a confide space thanks to Speed, Skill, Muscle Memory from years of the best Training, and plain Super Human Genes.

As I said, the Cyborg Ninja is insane fast. Unlike a Jedi who sees the shots before they come, this Cyborg Ninja simply moves much faster than mass amount of Mach 2 Bullets at 10 feet distance.

In this epic fight, Snake is physically able to match the Ninja. To make this more Impressive is the Cyborg Ninja resume!

This is Grey Fox. One of the best killers in the world and most accomplish member of Fox Hound. At the time he was leagues better than Snake in rankings. On top of this, Fox was already Super Human before being a Cyborg Ninja.

Null is Gray Foxes old name. A Super Human in speed and skill. Snake battled this guy and whats really impressive is he kept up, out H2H skill, and top it off actually had the strength and moves to harm this Super Armor Exosuit.

Impressive. As for precog you can see the shot's all you want but you have to be fast enough to react to them, which Luke is here he deflect blaster bolts from 120 shooters simultaneously:

A slight sideways tilt of his head invited Vastor to look around, which he did. Which was when he saw the full company of black-armored stormtroopers on a ring ledge about three meters above him, all with weapons aimed at his gigantic chest.

"I don't," Luke said. "Not if I can help it. Not anymore." He looked down at Han with a faint start, as though he'd been lost in a daydream and only now realized where they both were. Wearing a faintly bemused half smile, he flipped the DL-44 end-for-end and offered its grip to Han. "Here. You'll need this."

"For what?" Han asked, just as he was starting to realize that the shaft around the

Falcon

had suddenly gone quiet. The stormtroopers had stopped screaming. "Uh oh."

He snatched his pistol out of Luke's hand and popped to his feet as blasters opened up on all sides to rain plasma upon them in a roaring flood. Luke's lightsaber flared to life and lashed out in invisibly fast arcs that sent bolts out and away in a fan, blasting into the rock of the shaft walls. Choking red-black smoke billowed out from the points of impact, shrouding them in gloom so dense that the

Falcon's

exterior floodlights only gave off a yellow-brown glow.

"Stick close." Luke's voice was tight with concentration. "I'm not used to having to cover somebody else."

"Don't have to tell

me

twice." Han squeezed himself into a substantially less-than-Han-sized space at Luke's back and had barely time to wish that he knew a Jedi who was just a

little

taller before the

Falcon

bucked as if it had been kicked. The ship bounced off the shaft wall hard enough that Han had to grab Luke's shoulder to stay upright. "Chewie,

dammit

!"

"Not his fault," Luke said tightly, still carving smoke with his blade to catch stray blaster bolts. "The ship didn't move. The shaft did. The mountain's breaking up."

"Oh,

great

! Any

more

good news?"

"Yes," Luke said. "We're being boarded."

Dark shapes hurtled down at them through the gloom—stormtroopers jumping off the ring ledge. Han snarled something wordless that expressed vividly how he felt about having Imperial boots touch his ship and slipped his blaster over Luke's shoulder, snapping off a pair of double taps that caught two troopers while they were still in the air. The bursts blew them backward far enough that they fell short and tumbled into the shaft below, but dozens made it onto the hull. There were plenty more where they'd come from, and Han had a strong feeling that a stand-up fight against a hundred-some stormtroopers was a losing proposition under the best of circumstances. Which these circumstances weren't.

"Make for the hatch!" Han fired twice more, dropping one dark silhouette and knocking another spinning off the rim of the hull, while Luke fanned away a flood of return fire. "Let's see how these sons of monkey-lizards like open space and hard vacuum!"

"You first," Luke said.

"That's

another

thing you won't have to cell me twice." Red-glowing spheres sailed in through the smoke: thermal detonators. Some bounced away, but four or five maglocked themselves to the hull. "Uh, Luke?"

"I've got them." With his left hand, Luke swung his lightsaber in a dazzling flourish to spray blaster bolts randomly through the smoke, while his right hand stretched out toward the dets. All of them suddenly jerked themselves loose and flipped over the edge of the ship. Multiple detonations bounced the ship off the wall again. "Go, Han! Go

now

!"

Han took three steps, then threw himself into a flat dive that became a belly flop and sent him skidding and scraping over the lip of the hatch. He pulled himself in with his free hand and pivoted around his grip to land on his feet on the deck below. "I'm in! Luke, come on!"

More dets went off and lit the smoke with bloody flame, and there came no sign that Luke had any intention of following him. Han scrambled back up the gangway. "Luke, don't be an idiot!"

"I'm going after Vastor." Luke leaned into the gale of blasterfire as he worked his way toward the ship's edge. "Go. Save Leia! Don't wait for me."

--Taken from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

Company (128 troopers): A company consists of four platoons, led by a captain.

--Taken from The Essential Guide to Warfare

That feat alone puts Luke's combat speed in the hypersonic range.

Catches five blaster bolts in his hands:

A whole platoon of stormtroopers in gleaming black armor surrounded him, marching with weapons ready. The two behind him had blaster carbines aimed at the middle of his back, and fingers on their triggers. Their sergeant marched ahead. Behind them all, at a vantage that kept them all in view together, walked what Luke had come to assume was some kind of political officer.

The other stormtrooper swore and triggered an autoburst from his carbine. Luke’s other hand, the prosthetic hand that had replaced the one his father had taken, came up in an arc that precisely followed the motions of the carbine’s muzzle and caught all five bolts squarely in his palm.

--Taken from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

All in all Luke is faster then snake by a decent margin via showing.

Pretty useful, again nothing Snake has not fought before. Snake first goal is to kill while using stealth. His second is kill from distance. He does not engage in hand to hand unless he has too.

Given all the Gear he has here, his best bet is setting Claymores and C4 traps.

I still think with this environment it be easy for Snake to use his superior skills to stay out of sight and with the radar keep track of Luke while setting his traps.

As I posted before Luke should have no problem sensing him via the Force, and his Pre cog can help against snipping:

Just like in the two scans above the Force will guide Luke exactly where he needs to go.

Then Nikita Missiles at Luke from Cover. Snake is a very good marksmen.

Here he expertly and with great speed suppress Sniper Wolf.

Here he dodges Sniper Wolfs shots running for better positions, then spots here, shoots, and kill her before she can shoot Hal.

Sniper Wolf, one of the best Snipers in the world.

Now I am not saying he carries PSG out here, too much weight, but I am saying his skill with any weapon is pretty insane.

1:10 - 1:25. Snake makes this expert shot with no laser or scope.

He can easily set off a C4 blast, cause Luke to look that way for a second, and Blam!

Even if Luke is detracted (which he most likely won't), he has the speed to whirl around and reflect it in time thanks to speed and precognition.

All in all I see Luke locating Snake then using his superior speed, versatility to take him down.

#23 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@aonosawada: Sweet, what happen to your login name!?

That's true.

In fact he is mediocre average Jedi with less training.That is Snake biggest advantage. Luke is poorly train in Saber Combat,

That's completely false, Luke during Rebellion era, was a perfect equal with Darth Vader in terms of dueling skills:

--Taken from The Official Star Wars Fact File #111

His H2H skills may not be the best but he does have some showings.

Snake is one of the best H2H in the entire world.

On top of this his Game Manual Bio published by Konami states this.

The guy H2H is so good he can compete and beat out a Cyborg Ninja like Gray Fox who is also a top notch H2H fighter.

We see this in this fight between Gray Fox and Snake twice. I showed the first fight here is the second one.

Snake confronts the Cyborg Ninja, and fights him H2H. I am pretty sure Gray Fox held back his strength to make the fight fair for Snake, just as he wanted to fight Snake with no weapons. However what needs to be noted is the Cyborg Ninja Gray Fox even before becoming the machine was super human fast and skilled. Snake beats him.

and has zero training that I know of against Bullets.

Does not matter blaster bolts and bullets are around the same speed and there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

However there is a difference, Bullets can be melted through a light saber, however I seen metal melt to slag through sabers. Why no super heated melted lead? Or his AP rounds which are a higher grade metal? Or a missile? Cannot deflect that with a saber. Sure you can use force powers, but then you open to shots while waving a hand to force push the missile.

So with this in mind Snake will do what he does best, Sneak around for a good spot to shoot.

Luke would have no problem dodging this missile, hell he may even be able to redirect it seeing as how he has supported a falling AT-ST with his TK:

AT-ST's weighs over 16 tons.

True, as I said before though he needs to make a arm gesture as we see constantly. This can leave him open in that time for a Mach 2 Head Shot Barrage..

Impressive. As for precog you can see the shot's all you want but you have to be fast enough to react to them, which Luke is here he deflect blaster bolts from 120 shooters simultaneously:

--Taken from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

--Taken from The Essential Guide to Warfare

That feat alone puts Luke's combat speed in the hypersonic range.

Catches five blaster bolts in his hands:

--Taken from Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

All in all Luke is faster then snake by a decent margin via showing.

Im sorry, we all know Storm Troopers suck. Its a given that they are poorly train. Not to down the feat in any way. Just saying people can dodge bullets from thugs all day, yet when Deadshot or Deathstroke shoot at ya, you get tag.

Snake marksmanship > to 100 Storm Troopers IMO. Then there is the fact Snake can throw Flash Bangs and Stun Grenades to distract Luke before making his shots.

Ad to this Claymores quickly scattered around and C4 Explosions.

Luke can have all the speed and Precog he wants, he is not avoiding Mach 20 Blast Waves. This is not a random Tactic I am making up either. he does this alot!

Snake vs Raven

Top notch super Human this guy is.

Snake avoids Raven who is Aiming the .50 Cal Machine Gun on this tank. Add to this Snake is avoiding the worst of the Tank Shells blast Shock Waves that pulp humans into mush! Then snake dodges the fire with a Claymore in hand. Boom.

Raven is blasting away with his Mini Gun and Snake is not only Dodging it, he lays a nasty trap of his own to win. This is the Genius Skill of Solid Snake.

As seen he loves to set traps, and these explosions are too much for Luke to avoid in the 1-2 second Precog he has. The Mach 20 Blasts and Steel Ball Bearings of the Claymores pwn.

Pretty useful, again nothing Snake has not fought before. Snake first goal is to kill while using stealth. His second is kill from distance. He does not engage in hand to hand unless he has too.

All true. However Sanke is one of the best H2H fighters in the world. He is also defeated some Mach Speed Sword users as well in Close Combat.

Snake vs Vamp

Snake vs Vamp is unique difference of IDW Comics to the Games.

Vamp is as much a bad@$$ in the IDW Comics as he is in the Game. He still has all the skill abilities he shows in MGS4. Like that insane Healing Factor.

Clearly seen when shot in the Head not once, but twice! Still comes back in MGS4 to challenge Raiden no less.

In the Comics Raiden never makes it to Emma. Snake has to retrieve her and beats Vamp in a simple quick Throat Cut move. Showing off that speed and skill of Snake. Again this is impressive because this is still the same Vamp who would later on in a few years battle Cyborg Ninja Raiden!

That is what Snake had beaten with no awesome Cyborg powers.

Given all the Gear he has here, his best bet is setting Claymores and C4 traps.

I still think with this environment it be easy for Snake to use his superior skills to stay out of sight and with the radar keep track of Luke while setting his traps.

I like to say Snake will do the same as he is famous for in the Canon of Metal Gear Games. He had to beat bosses the same way like the Runner and such.

As I posted before Luke should have no problem sensing him via the Force, and his Pre cog can help against snipping:

Just like in the two scans above the Force will guide Luke exactly where he needs to go.

However Snake Standard gear is not limited to mere regular Stealth. He still has the Stealth Gear from Otocon to board the Tanker in Sons of Liberty. Otocon makes this gear.

This baby will make even locating him from a glance a hard thing to do. Making Snakes job setting traps that much easier.

Even if Luke is detracted (which he most likely won't), he has the speed to whirl around and reflect it in time thanks to speed and precognition.

All in all I see Luke locating Snake then using his superior speed, versatility to take him down.

I see Snake doing what he does best. Setting up traps and getting ready for nasty surprise boom booms.

Snake has Radar to keep track of Luke movements, while Luke has not exact Force Sensing (The Black Hole is impressive, but Black Holes are stellar huge!) and the Stealth Camo to help add on to Snakes stellar stealth. The Explosions and distracting grenades is enough IMO. Also should Luke close in Hand to Hand, I think Snake resume and feats show he can put distance or even counter the lightsaber as well High Frequency Blades as well skill of Gray Fox, Vamp, and Solidus! Yes Solidus!

Snake vs Solidus

Finally we have Solidus. Another Clone and one with as much skill and experience as Snake himself.

Solidus has been starting and waging wars for years while Solid and Liquid were both training. On top of this he is wearing a Exo Suit that enhances his stats far beyond Snakes own.

His suit grants him incredible speed and strength.

Solidus suit and skill is enough swipe down Heavy fire from Metal Gear Ray! Just to show how fast and beastly he is.

Beastly!!!!

Solidus easily beats Raiden. Snake with the sword, a weapon we know he is not the best with, defeats Solidus who has his Cyborg Ninja Suit to amp his already Super Human stats. We know Snake was stripped of all weapon before this, so he must had use the sword.

In this version Snake best Solidus who has the exact stats, close to same training, and a super suit that enhances Speed and Strength in a sword fight!

Now that just proves to me Snake can easy take this even in Close Combat.

#24 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

this thread is so epic

Q_Q

#25 Posted by Rainx20 (233 posts) - - Show Bio

I played every metal gear solid game except revengence (Raiden would be a better openent for Luke skywalker although Luke would still win.) idk why this is a debate snake is a bad ass but that doesn't mean he can take out a Jedi as powerful as Luke!!! Physco mantis, gray fox, ocelot those are not equivalent to a adept Jedi!!!! Return of the Jedi Luke is adept he defeats vader easily. Vader is the one of the strongest Sith Lords to ever live. Snake has no chance on killing luke he will be detected force chocked or thrown ( Luke's choice) Luke can disarm him or do what he pleases. As far as hand to hand goes snake is a boss but so is luke he defeated Guri unarmed I'm shadows of the empire Guri was an android that was famous for exhibiting strength and killing its victims bare handed. The force amplifies Luke's attributes as well in speed reflexes strength jumping so he will be able to overpower snake easily. Snake has no feats that threaten Luke seriously he doesn't and as far as mind control goes The force is stronger than physco mantis's power you don't know that snake wouldn't be defeated by that alone. Snake can't simply plug in his controller into a different port to avoid a Jedi mind trick seriously people stop debating this isn't a match. Snake only stands a chance If its a new hope like or empire strikes back luke

#26 Posted by jwalser3 (5260 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake isn't TP resistant.... Unless you can move your memory card to port 2....

#27 Posted by nickzambuto (14437 posts) - - Show Bio

@rainx20 said:

I played every metal gear solid game except revengence (Raiden would be a better openent for Luke skywalker although Luke would still win.) idk why this is a debate snake is a bad ass but that doesn't mean he can take out a Jedi as powerful as Luke!!! Physco mantis, gray fox, ocelot those are not equivalent to a adept Jedi!!!! Return of the Jedi Luke is adept he defeats vader easily. Vader is the one of the strongest Sith Lords to ever live. Snake has no chance on killing luke he will be detected force chocked or thrown ( Luke's choice) Luke can disarm him or do what he pleases. As far as hand to hand goes snake is a boss but so is luke he defeated Guri unarmed I'm shadows of the empire Guri was an android that was famous for exhibiting strength and killing its victims bare handed. The force amplifies Luke's attributes as well in speed reflexes strength jumping so he will be able to overpower snake easily. Snake has no feats that threaten Luke seriously he doesn't and as far as mind control goes The force is stronger than physco mantis's power you don't know that snake wouldn't be defeated by that alone. Snake can't simply plug in his controller into a different port to avoid a Jedi mind trick seriously people stop debating this isn't a match. Snake only stands a chance If its a new hope like or empire strikes back luke

No, Snake is a lot more skilled than Luke and has very good TP resistance. This is a very good match, and also you're not allowed to interfere in Cadence and DCCR's match.

#28 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@rainx20 said:

I played every metal gear solid game except revengence (Raiden would be a better openent for Luke skywalker although Luke would still win.) idk why this is a debate snake is a bad ass but that doesn't mean he can take out a Jedi as powerful as Luke!!! Physco mantis, gray fox, ocelot those are not equivalent to a adept Jedi!!!! Return of the Jedi Luke is adept he defeats vader easily. Vader is the one of the strongest Sith Lords to ever live. Snake has no chance on killing luke he will be detected force chocked or thrown ( Luke's choice) Luke can disarm him or do what he pleases. As far as hand to hand goes snake is a boss but so is luke he defeated Guri unarmed I'm shadows of the empire Guri was an android that was famous for exhibiting strength and killing its victims bare handed. The force amplifies Luke's attributes as well in speed reflexes strength jumping so he will be able to overpower snake easily. Snake has no feats that threaten Luke seriously he doesn't and as far as mind control goes The force is stronger than physco mantis's power you don't know that snake wouldn't be defeated by that alone. Snake can't simply plug in his controller into a different port to avoid a Jedi mind trick seriously people stop debating this isn't a match. Snake only stands a chance If its a new hope like or empire strikes back luke

First off this is a private match of Debating Skill rather than whos character stomps. So no need to weigh in.

CaV for future reference means Challenge a Viner. A Favorite past time to keep other people Bias opinions out of a debate.

@jwalser3 said:

Snake isn't TP resistant.... Unless you can move your memory card to port 2....

Cough Cough the feats do not lie. Also no interfering, you know better!

#30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (26189 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Ready to go to Voting? Been For Ev Er!

You know what? Lets just go to voting I'm way to lazy to reply =(

#32 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (26189 posts) - - Show Bio

I think my layziness may have cost me in this debate. Q_Q

#34 Posted by Jokergeist (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadenciepooh gets my vote.

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadenciepooh gets my vote.

You gave me a cutsy name!?

#36 Posted by Jokergeist (4935 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Edited by JediXMan (31250 posts) - - Show Bio

DCCR.

I admit that it's partially because he was on the side that I believed would win. That said, he did bring up some good points, and I agreed with the arguments.

Moderator
#38 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by Strider92 (16765 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm leaning towards Cadence here. He countered points pretty precisely however DCCR retaliated well. I'm torn so i'm just going to go with the one who convinced of what the outcome and that was CadenceV2.

Great battle you guys. I'll be coming back here if I ever need a reference for Snake's or Luke's abilities!

#40 Posted by WarBlade539 (4731 posts) - - Show Bio

This is some pretty bada$$ debating. I must admit, my knowledge on Skywalker extends to only the movies but based on the points displayed above, and the way the debate is progressing...I am leaning towards @dccomicsrule2011. While Cadence did bring up some interesting points, I believe that dccr countered those effectively. And I agreed with him for the most part.

#41 Edited by Strider92 (16765 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: On a side-note I hear that Gray Fox is around class 100 but I haven't seen the feat to back this up. Do you have that feat or know where I can find it? Just curious is all.

#42 Posted by Beam3000 (133 posts) - - Show Bio

DCCR gets my vote because Snakes feats are not enough to beat Luke.

#43 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: On a side-note I hear that Gray Fox is around class 100 but I haven't seen the feat to back this up. Do you have that feat or know where I can find it? Just curious is all.

Rex is 500 tons of machine.

Here Gray Fox Holds it.

Here he Flips it!

Both are Canon.

#44 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8589 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Gets my vote. Even though Snake would stand zero chance against Luke in a real battle haha. Well debated.

#46 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Gets my vote. Even though Snake would stand zero chance against Luke in a real battle haha. Well debated.

BS! I mean Thank You!

#47 Posted by MonsterStomp (19880 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice debate fella's. Took me a while, had to keep coming back to it but I'd give my vote to @cadencev2

#48 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

4-3 Me.

#49 Posted by nickzambuto (14437 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadence won this.

From the feats presented, it is pretty clear Solid Snake's tactics are going to win. Luke honestly doesn't seem that much faster than Gray Fox, and even though his TK might complicate things, he really doesn't have a single advantage over Snake in CC. That said, Snake won't even bring it to CC as Cadence showed a number of ways he can end it without even being spotted. I think people are just partial towards the uber God Luke Skywalker and can't really see the vast difference in power from his early days.

#50 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Cadence won this.

From the feats presented, it is pretty clear Solid Snake's tactics are going to win. Luke honestly doesn't seem that much faster than Gray Fox, and even though his TK might complicate things, he really doesn't have a single advantage over Snake in CC. That said, Snake won't even bring it to CC as Cadence showed a number of ways he can end it without even being spotted. I think people are just partial towards the uber God Luke Skywalker and can't really see the vast difference in power from his early days.