Three way CaV!!! Next installment of the Cosmic Level High Tiers!!!!!
The Teams:
New_World_Order:
Death Seed Sentry (with prior powers and feats) & Thor ( No RKT!!)
Cosmicallyaware1:
Silver Surfer (peak) & Martian Manhunter (pre 52 and New feats both)
DarkRaiden:
Blue Marvel & Monica Rambeau (Cap Marvel, Spectrum, Photon, all feats apply)
Scenario:
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So The Beyonder has traversed many universes and realities. He becomes interested in the Marvel Universe and DC universe respectively. He decides to create an experiment He is intrigued by the being known as the Grandmaster in the 616 Marvel and the being known as Metron in the DCU. The Beyonder proposes a challenge to both the beings "select 6 individuals to be in teams from both your universes to compete in combat. Depending on the outcome I will instruct you what we will be doing next...." Not knowing the plans of this enigmatic being, Grandmaster and Metron select beings of high powersets to compete in this contest. Grandmaster replies with a sly grin "we shall see how this intriguing game unfolds......" "agreed" states the curious Metron.... "Ahhhhh excellent choices!" The Beyonder replies! And with that the match is set! They agree that the Beyonder will create a world and reality similar to the one he created in the Secret Wars for these teams to battle on, the battle parameters and rules of the contest are set.
Beyonder creates the world and the opponents are transported there.
On the world, all combatants look around this strange place in bewilderment, both confused at to what has occurred...... in a strange place. The Grandmaster , Metron, and the Beyonder appear before each combatant psychically stating "you have been chosen to fight to the death on this battlefield. You are at our whim." Then psionic information floods their brains, informing them of their opponents.
"we will be watching to see whom is victorious. When the battle is over, you may be placed back in your native realms." seeps into their minds as an afterthought............
Rules of Engagement:
Opponents have pretty much full knowledge on each other provided.
To the death. BFR is only applicable here to take the fight somewhere else or to weaken your opponent, not straight for a win (if unsure then it will be discussed). No time travel for those with the capabilities
Standard Gear.......however there are some restrictions. No extra gear for Blue Marvel from his base (if that would apply), No Odinsword/Ragnarok, belt of strength, or special armor for Thor.
Morals Off, Bloodlusted.
Starting distance 10 miles apart..........but opponents do not know where the other is, they have to find each other!
No prep
They may use any of the terrain to their advantage. The world is unpopulated, however there are buildings and such
Posting order shall go: NWO, Cosmic, DarkRaiden, and then cycle back through. In that specific order. There shall be the opening statement and intro by each viner, 4 rebutall/counter posts, and then a closing argument. No other Viners may comment or influence the debating in any way until Voting is open. Words of "you guys rock" and "this is EPIC" and so forth are acceptable of course :)
Location: (brief examples)
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and with that.....................it Begins!!!!!!!!!
@New_World_Order@darkraiden: it's up and running guys. Let me know how it looks, and if anything needs to be changed in the OP. If everything's good then, you're up first NWO. Intro and Opener, then me, then DR and cycle back.
Ahhh my friend.....did you read above? I slated you to go first with the intro and opener seeing as you have been way for a bit, welcome back. If you want we can change the order up..
Ahhh my friend.....did you read above? I slated you to go first with the intro and opener seeing as you have been way for a bit, welcome back. If you want we can change the order up..
Ah, my bad alright. If I don't have one up today, I surely will tomorrow.
@New_World_Order@darkraiden: ok so this doesn't take forever I will go first. We can figure out the posting order after that I guess. I like the structured posting order, it has worked well in another debate I was in......
The Team!!!! Silver Surfer and Martian Manhunter!!!!!!
Introductions............
Silver Surfer (Norrin Radd)
Silver Surfer is one of the most well know Cosmically empowered beings in the Marvel Universe who needs little introduction. He is one of the most prominent heralds of Galactus and empowered by the Power Cosmic. He is the upper echelon of High Tier characters and a fierce opponent. His strong fighting spirit, vast versatility, and raw power in conjunction with Morals Off/Bloodlusted OP here is a veeeery dangerous thing here.......
Surfer's powersets are fairly well know here but for the casual reader here is a quick synopsis and breakdown of Surfer's capabilities (keeping in mind that I am only giving a few examples with scans. Also saving the good stuff for the debate itself!!!!)
Speed
Surfer is know for being insanely fast.....travel speed and reactionary/reflex speed as well. He travels light years in seconds and is classified as a FTL travel speed character. He has displayed nano-second reactionary times.
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1.) taking out ships at fair speed 2.) speedblitzing 3.) faster than Quasar 4.) taking out more ships 5.) easily catching up to a ship in hyperdrive
Enhanced Senses
Surfer exhibits an ability know as "Cosmic Awareness" which grant him a host of extraordinary extra sensory perceptions. He has displayed the ability to : track a dust mote throughout the galaxy, locate a planet light years aware by pure perception alone in less than a second, sense the weakness of an individual just by a glance, and many more. He has also exhibited the ability to perceive time (past, present, future).
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1.) can see past 2.) can tell attributes 3.) hears meteorite 4.) sees through deception 5.) track spacedust
THE POWER COSMIC
he is fueled by sheer badassness bestowed by Galactus. The Power Cosmic is incredibly varied and versatile in the abilities it grants surfer and he manifests itself in a multitude of ways, including limited TP and TK. One of the ways he mainly uses it I will showcase by itself below, and here will showcase things like blasting power, etc.....
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1.) time manipulation 2.) creates black hole 3.) creates life 4.) phasing ability 5.) TK - lifts satellite 6.) TP - calms whole planet population 7.) TP - influences every mind on planet
Matter Manipulation / Molecular re-arrangement
Ahhh the ability to manipulate matter and rearrange the molecules of a substance to suit your needs. Comes in quite handy at times I would imagine!! This ability has been expressed in many ways such as: creating structures out of thin air, de-atomization of foes, using an individual's clothing/materials against them, and even forms of BFR.
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1.) bonds Ravenous to his board 2.) creates oxygen in space 3.) creates a structure out of molecules in air 4.) transmutation 5.) rebuilds NYC
Durability
Surfer has vast durability levels, that Silver skin of his is used to surviving the rigors of space travel and the such (heat of Sun's, etc...). He has tanked blows of vast cosmic power (Galactus, Thanos, Tyrant, etc....), powerful weapons (Mjolnir, quantum bands, etc...) and class 100 strength characters (Thor, Gladiator, Champion, etc....) on the regular. He also has substantial healing/regen capabilities
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1.) fly through star unfazed 2.) tank she hulk punch unfazed 3.) no feeling at 10,000 degrees 4.) vs Michael Korvac - tanks planet busting attack 5.) alt reality showing - adamantium can't cut his skin
Versatility (especially Energy Absorb!!!)
Surfer is extremely versatile with his powers and has many capacities that he does not exhibit all the time. One of the more notable abilities that he has is the ability to act as a battery or sponge and absorb other Energies. This may empower him further or simply drain an opponent/thing of their power!!!!
y'know this is all I'm gonna show here for this one. Save the rest for later.
Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onnz)
The Manhunter from Mars. J'onn J'onnz is one of the most powerful members of the JL family and his powerset rivals that of Superman......with added bonuses (insane TP and complete cellular control!!!). His history is well established, and in the pre 52 he was considered the heart and soul of the JLA. No morals here is considerable regarding the Manhunter for two reasons: 1.) he will not hold back from mental intrusions/mind rape/ full TP usage and 2.) we saw a no morals manhunter before and what he's potentially capable of.......Fernus the burning martian!!!!
Once again Manhunter's powersets are fairly well know here but for the casual reader here is a quick synopsis and breakdown of Manhunter's capabilities.
It's important to not ethat I am using Pre and Nu-52 feats for Manhunter.
yeah, i know it's a black lantern shot but so what? it illustrates a point beautifully. And being a black lantern did not drastically alter one's powerset in lieu of strength at least.... this should be enough on this subject (strength for now, once again I'll get more into it for the actual debate)
Speed
blitzing through white Martian mind control towers across the world and arriving to the JLA in seconds
Durability
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1.) - 2.) showing J'onn they only one briefly left standing after a blast that instantly KO'd the rest of the JL including Kal and Diana 3.) tanking blast from Breach (alternate Captain Atom basically)
Complete Cellular Control (intangibility, shape shifting, etc....)
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1.) - 2.) shapeshifting and altering molecular makeup 3.) shapeshifting to skyscraper size 4.) trapping opponent in his body by density control 5.) nice shot I like vs. JL annnnd, forgot what I put for 6.) resisting wonder woman's lasso I think...have to edit
TP/Psionic/Mental capacity
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1.) entire world mind touch 2.) TP link heroes minds 3.) mindwipe stormwatch 4.) scans entire planet TP 5.) Spectre
Martian Vision
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1.) - 3) severely affecting the Ray with Vision, whom is normally impervious to such attacks when energy form. Dispersed atoms and that sort of thing............
and I always love this when it comes to J'onn J'onnz:
he sure does love his milk and cookies.
And that's it for the intros. Now onto the next:
My Plan:
This going to be an exceedingly tough battle especially due to the number of combatants.
First off J'onn and Surfer TP link so they stay in sync throughout and have instant rely data stream to one another.
J'onn targets Sentry (as he sees him as the biggest threat)
Surfer goes after Photon (I sense some energy draining coming up.......ooooohhhh.......)
And that's it really so far, nothing grand. This is not a prep and extreme strategy battle...it is a powerhouse death match!!!!
Ok, let me introduce my team...Blue Marvel and Spectrum, aka the SGK
Blue Marvel
He's powerful, he's a black tank with speed, strength, durability, and the anti-matter to compete with nearly anyone, not to mention his intelligence and insight.
Strength:
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He's thrown a medal so hard it almost split the moon in half (in a random fit of anger, not even peak strength)
He's hit Namor as hard as Hulk and Thor hit and again, just pissed off hit, not full bloodlusted trying strength
And he's sent Sentry unconscious and into orbit with one punch before
Durability:
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It talks about how he once held a Hydrogen bomb in his hand, he takes hits from King Hyperion in a slugging match, and hits from Anti-Man who defeated the entire Avengers (including Sentry)
Energy:
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He has anti-matter, which according to marvel, each gram = a hydrogen bomb. You can clearly see that he uses a whole lot more than a gram and can use it as projection, as a forcefield, and to coat his punches for more OOMPH!
Others:
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He dodges lasers, can apparently see inside of Spectrum and see her energy and make up, can boost Spectrum's powers and....flies through a weakened Shuma-Gorath's eye....hence SGK. Shuma-Gorath Killers.
Spectrum:
Speed:
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There's more but basics is that she's the speed of light and faster (since billions of miles in a second is FTL and all). Note the thousands of attacks at the speed of light btw
Energy Projection:
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Overloads Kang's forcefields, hurts Skyfather Zeus with her blasts, takes out a tree man that Thor and She-Hulk couldn't, Ultraviolet Nova
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Petawatt lasers, overloading crimson dynamo, suffocating Genis Vell with his own forcefields and blowing up Shuma Gorath's brain via electricity inside of it. SGK, Shuma-Gorath Killer. Yep.
Intangibility:
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Phasing through attacks, holograms vs. Zeus, changing her form to get past Magneto's forcefield
Energy Absorption:
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absorbs energy of a hole between 2 universes, takes on the ginormous nebula storm form by absorbing energy iirc, and absorbs extra-dimensional energy, exploding her enemy
Other:
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Showing her different forms she can take, and illusions, and that she can shrink down to atom size.
Strategy:
Brief, not the whole one
1. Blue Marvel uses his abilities to power Spectrum up as much as necessary
2. Blue Marvel fights among the powerhouses
3. Spectrum immediately takes out MMH via fire form and lightspeed blitz (light>>>thoughts)
4. Spectrum helps Blue Marvel against said powerhouses with energy projection, absorption, and speed blitz.
@cosmicallyaware1: That changes things a bit...the Thor thing does. MMH is kinda up in the air....Comicvine itself and DC wikia still have it as a weakness, even with that arc being there:
"In the epilogue of this story, J'onn claims to have overcome his fear of fire unless the flames have a psychic or magical dimension. This is sometimes overlooked in more recent adventures." http://www.comicvine.com/martian-manhunter/4005-2047/
Weaknesses
Vulnerability to Fire: The Martian Manhunter has a psychosomatic fear of fire. The Guardians of the Universe have built in a fear of fire when they first confronted the Burned (Martians). Exposure to fire, causes him to lose his powers, and in the case of extreme fire, to lose his control over his biomorphic form. The Manhunter is more vulnerable in this form and can take damage in this vulnerable state.
@darkraiden: yeah, the whole MM fire thing has been a bit inconsistent really. What really gets me about that showing and his death at the hands of Libra are with Libra himself.
From Libra's page:
Libra's powers during Final Crisis are somewhat confusing, considering the nature of his enhancement was never clearly explained.
It was hinted that he became a New God but he did not openly display the various powers exhibited by the more prominent New Gods (massive superhuman strength, durability, speed and reflexes; powerful energy manipulation and projection; matter transmutation; dimensional travel, etc.)
Libra has also been referred to as "the Anti-Life that walks" by Godfrey, either a metaphorical nod to his role or a literal explanation of his transformation.
Some of his abilities have mirrored the effect of the Anti-Life Equation, and support the idea that he was a physical manifestation of it
Libra as a living embodiment of the Anti-Life Equation may also explain his resistance to the Spectre's power
So what do we take from this?
I feel that what "killed" J'onn in that instance may not necessarily been typical "fire" as we think of it but some varied form of intense cosmic energies. Libra was able to resist Spectre so it's not unfathomable, and his power set was never clearly defined anyway.
After destroying Fernus, J'onn grieves for Scorch, who had fallen into coma, and with whom he had fallen in love. J'onn later tells Superman that his aversion to fire has changed: he is now invulnerable to flames unless they are "flames of passion" or of some other "psychic significance".
and also direct copy from that source (in regards to the killing by Libra):
He is "rescued" by Libra and the new Secret Society of Super-Villains who open a Boom Tube between the planet and Earth. Libra brings him back to Earth with the express purpose of killing him, doing so with his spear tipped scale staff, for the Human Flame to show the Society members that he can give them their hearts desire--Human Flame having wanted J'onn dead for foiling a crime of his years ago.
Getting the impression here that Libra's attack/methodology was bit different that conventional means here. I'ma saying that J'onn is not affected by "normal fire" as stated previously in info from source and scan I posted.
Here's some more though.
and there's always this one that's a bit more current.............
so it's just gonna piss off the Martian now...........good idea
@cosmicallyaware1: Eh...that's like...human fire...Spectrum's fire is waaay more potent....plus being pissed off means nothing when you're being blitzed and whatnot. But I was just questioning just how much he was really no longer weak to it considering the inconsistency and all.
MM is no longer afraid of fire, but is still vulnerable to it in several capacities. He is more durable than a human, but cannot sun dip or swim in lava like Aquaman(in Johns fan want mode)
In all honesty I think I have a superior team, and I only have one character is this battle that will prove to be rather difficult. That being @cosmicallyaware1 's Martian Manhunter because of his vast telepathic abilities. Other then that my team can get through almost anything they come across, because what one is lacking the other has.
First i'll start off with some feats so you guys can get an understanding on how powerful my team is (Mostly Sentry).
Striking Force
Thor is capable of easily striking a mile wide spacecraft and splitting it in half, he than destroys one half with lightning.
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His striking force is pretty scary as he's flung back Galactus multiple times. Even if it is a starving Galactus, he should still be well above Thor. The first scan although was a Galactus who fed on a planet because he was going to fight the Asgardians, so it wasn't a starving Galactus. This has happened way to many times for it to be called PIS.
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But don't get me wrong, Thor still packs quite the punch within his own physical strength. He still has physical strength enough to fight Blue Marvel or Martian Manhunter if it comes to it, it's just he hits harder with Mjolnir and is used to using it so he rarely fights without it. Here is Thor punching an undead Asgardian warrior into space. Showing he is extremely strong without Mjolnir.
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The Sentry isn't lacking in striking force either, he is capable of out-muscling either Blue Marvel or Martian Manhunter if it comes to it.
A punch from the Sentry split a mountain in half.
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Stops Terrax's attack with one hand and then proceeds to break his axe in half.
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Now current Sentry is so powerful that he punched Thor and it was felt across the planet they were on.
I am more then certain that if anyone of your team tries to go physical with my team they will lose. Oppose to your guys team, I have to characters with planetary strength, while one of you have Martian Manhunter, and Blue Marvel (who I don't think is quite at that level physically? Not sure)
Durability
Well technically the feat of Sentry punching Thor can be used in this section as right after he punched Thor, he got back up.
Thor has tanked multiple blows from an Anti-Matter amped version of Electro. I wonder how @darkraiden 's Blue Marvel's Anti-Matter will effect Thor.
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Tanks multiple hits from Classic Drax The Destroyer, tanks for Mjolnir like weapons (including his crashing into each other, and tanks a blast from Starbrand)
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Tanks a hit from Thor, a blast from Terrax does nothing, and neither does a punch from Thing
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Now since this is Death Seed Sentry, have fun trying to kill him or put him down. When Thor tried it things didn't work out too well. Even though the Sentry got his face destroyed (literally). He easily reforms his face.
Speed
Thor is not so impressive in speed, so I have ways around that. Yes he has impressive travel speed, but when it comes to combat, he's good, but eh, not up to par with the others.
Thor can go destructive which would cause heavy damage to your team and will leave them very weak although this is a more concentrated attack. (Slower)
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An area effecting attack like this is capable of striking them.
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I mean he can literally strike down a large area with a massive lighting bolt.
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Thor can send the lighting through his body so your team will get electrocuted if they touch him, then there is the fact that his lightning has spanned an entire moon.
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Not to mention Mjolnir can transverse through space and time to reach it's target, so they will not be escaping Mjolnir when it's thrown
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Thor has quite the bull-rush too
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The Sentry on the other hand is extremely fast.
Blitzes Doctor Doom and multiple helicopters
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Dodges a blast from Terrax and flies Thor so fast through space he can't react
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That's the 3 main things I wanted to get through in this post. My next post will include how there other abilities will come into play. I just didn't want to make one giant post.
sure man. I am in quite a few other matches so no rush at all on a CaV. Taking time is actually better with these I've found. More time to really plan out replies and such. Just don't leave it hangin altogether too long lol.....
Alright i'm back for the second half. I'll be explaining how my duo's various powers will come into place for this battle. For starters I would like to get the fact to you guys that any physical battle between Death Seed Sentry is an instant loss. There is pretty much no way either of them can take him. I mean he literally held Thor up with one (easily) and Thor couldn't break his grip even though he was using both hands. Thor was so out-muscled he looked helpless.
Thor is no slouch himself. He was capable of one-shotting (killing) an Asgardian amped Thing (Angrir)
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That shows just how ruthless Thor can be with morals off.
And sending an Asgardian amped Hulk (Nul) into orbit, and then on the other side of the planet in one strike each.
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Knowing how Martian Manhunter and Blue Marvel fight this will prove highly difficult for them to overcome.
I'm going to address specific things now.
1. Blue Marvel, Monica Rambeau, and Silver Surfer's energy manipulation
I find it hard to believe any of this will be effective against someone like Thor, I mean he can literally drain anything and redirect it. He hasn't came across one thing he couldn't drain yet. Thor has drained the blast from a being named Glory who was said by the writer to be as powerful as a pissed off Odin. Not only did he absorb the blast, but he literally fired it right back at him.
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I already showed how Thor has fared against Anti-Matter blasts, which should help him against Blue Marvel, although Marvel's should be more powerful then an Anti-Matter Electro's, I still believe Thor can overcome it. How? Well, Thor can actually manipulate Anti-Matter too.
Here are 3 instances of him using it. Twice against Mangog (Once in his back and the other in his mouth) and the last on Perkius The Dark God
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I believe once Thor see's he can do it, he will manipulate it.
As for Monica Rambeau's energy form...well she is particularly easy to deal with, only problem really is her speed. Thor can actually just drain her of the energy within her. He's done so before to Kang The Conquer,
Not to mention literally made a fool of the Presence by draining the energy from him.
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Monica is the least of the problems for my team. The real problem is Silver Surfer's energy projection, although Thor can drain it, the problem is still there.
If anything Thor can just reflect
Or counter there attacks.
Sentry can straight up tank these and keep on reforming so he doesn't really need to defend.
He literally ripped his head apart and is still alive (later reforms) so I don't see your team doing anything to him.
2. Martian Manhunter's telepathy
Probably the biggest problem any of your teams have, although the problem isn't that big. Although John's telepathy is extremely powerful and has gotten to the most powerful of beings, the Sentry also is extremely powerful telepathically. Especially his current version.
He has used telepathy on Wasp
He's used his telekinesis to toss an object at Thor
But the feat that puts him on a telepathic level higher than Martian Manhunter is when he literally made Mjolnir fall with no apparent struggle. To do that would mean he overcame the enchantment that Odin put on it. This is extremely impressive.
I don't think Martian Manhunter is going to mentally shutting down someone who can overcome Odin's enchantment. Not even on his best day. Sentry can protect or block all mental attacks that reach Thor.
3. Silver Surfer's matter manipulation
The Silver Surfer's matter manipulation is impressive and all, but the Sentry has literally beat the most powerful matter manipulator in Marvel comics. (Molecule Man), so I don't see him doing to well against Sentry if he goes with that approach. That's if Sentry doesn't use it regardless.
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Not to mention Thor has some matter manipulation if needed.
1. Blue Marvel uses his abilities to power Spectrum up as much as necessary
Interesting, but both Thor and Silver Surfer would just drain her. Not too much of a problem.
2. Blue Marvel fights among the powerhouses
In all honesty although Blue Marvel is powerful, he may be the weakest out of all the powerhouses here. (Excluding Monica Rabmeau)
3. Spectrum immediately takes out MMH via fire form and lightspeed blitz (light>>>thoughts)
Although Martian Manhunter isn't on my team, I doubt she would win that way.
4. Spectrum helps Blue Marvel against said powerhouses with energy projection, absorption, and speed blitz.
Spectrum and Blue Marvel do not have the power-set to put down Death Seed Sentry. So in all honesty even if your team defeats everyone else, they cannot defeat Sentry. Energy projection and absorbtion is not going to do much. Monica is the weakest energy drainer here, and her speed-blitzing lacks the actual power behind it to do sufficient enough damage.
My strategy
Sentry will fly off and Thor will start the battle by dropping multiple lightning bolts upon the battle field.
This will give my team an idea of what there dealing with judging by how your team reacts to the lightning strikes.
The Sentry will come down from the sky and bull-rush Blue Marvel.
Remind you of anything?
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Silver Surfer will most likely take out Monica Rambeau from there on seeing as she revolves on energy.
@New_World_Order: very nice man, exactly the caliber that I come to expect from you. Guess I'm up next then huh? this reply is gonna take some serious building, will have it up probably by the end of tomorrow at the latest..............
First off let's recap. i have initially stated that:
Martian Manhunter will target Sentry.
Surfer will begin by draining Photon.
This will begin the battle and sound strategy due to the following factors: 1.) one of darkraiden's team eliminated right from the get go. 2.) Sentry tied up long enough for an amped Surfer to step in and take over, then MMH can target another foe. Now can MMH defeat Sentry (as NWO claims he cannot....)? I think he can. However, he does not need to as I would like Surfer to have that honor.and MMH will be more effectively utilized against BM or Thor.
The Battle!!!!!
1st Point: Surfer draining Photon.
Surfer has exhibited insanely strong and versatile energy draining and siphoning capabilities before.
this is an excellent example and explaination of his capabilities. Galactus designed him in a unique way so to speak, in that he is able to act as a sponge/battery for a vsat array of energy types from steller, cosmic, nuclear, radiations, etc...........
he is able to do so in an offensively and defensively way equally. Energies that are directed at him may be absorbed, ambient energies may be "leeched off" and the such. There doesn't seem to be any limits or restrictions on this. In the scan provided abov, we can see him absorbing the energies from a nearby sun. If he is capable of that, I don't see sucking the juice out of Monica to be a problem. And in this instance, it obviously "supercharges" Norrin.....so that's a bonus!
here are some more examples:
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1.) against Psycho Man = draining psych kinetic energies and redirecting 2.) - 3.) against Hulk = drains Gamma 4.) vs. Firelord / Power Cosmic - states can drain off 5.) another showing against Hulk draining Gamma 6.) - 7.) versatility in absorbtion / drain ing
This is a showing of taking damage and absorbing it to use offensively. So....yeah.
Now granted this showing was from the Mc2 line (alternate future) but it shows Surfer easily, and I mean easily.......completely draining off a Herald being. Granted the power source is the same (power cosmic).........the purpose is just to illustrate the point here. Surfer accomplishes this type of attack/task with ease.
2nd point: MMH engages Sentry
the first thing here that is essential to realize is that as powerful as Sentry is.......he can be affected by the caliber of TP attack that MMH can dish out. Arguable yes. Now it's relevant that I stated "affected", I did by no means say defeat.
First off.........the Mind Rape
now the point of this scan is to illustrate MMH's capacity to affect very strong willed individuals, which Sentry obviously is. MMH has been able to affect beings (slighter or lesser degree) such as the Spectre himself (granted yes, it was Hal as Spectre and not the Divine Engine of Vengence iteself per say....but respectable nonetheless)
So regardless of how powerful Sentry is.......I say that a TP user such as J'onn's status is going to able to affect him in some way. There have even been times (in Burning Martian persona) when MMH has affected entire groups of strong willed individuals with strong mental defenses. with ease.
J'onn is the most powerful telepath on earth, being able to effect even the Spectre and Doctor Fate with his telepathy. Aquaman has stated that Martian Manhunter's telepathy exceeds even the telepathy of other members of the Martian race. He said that with J'onn's great telepathic power his own telepathy just "pings" off of him while when Aquaman was in the presence of J'onn's brother, Ma'alefa'ak, there was no such effect. J'onn is capable of linking the minds of all superheroes at once from a distance of the moon to all corners of the earth. He is also capable of reading the minds of all inhabitants of earth at once. His telepathic abilities also allow him to create realistic illusions; telepathically trace and locate people; shut down people's minds; influence thoughts; mind control people; induce sleep; reprogram or reorder minds; and transfer information directly into people's brains. The Martian Manhunter's mind control capabilities have allowed him to mind control the Joker and make him temporarily sane, as well as mind controlling several White Martians at once. He is also capable of mentally shielding those around him from telepathic assault. His own mental defenses are so strong that he is able to telepathically shield himself from the combined might of several White Martians and from the Mageddon machinery.
And in addition, Martians have nine senses as opposed to a human's five senses, which grants the Martian more numerable and clearer perceptions.
So the real point here is that MMH has demonstrated capable enough ability, on numerous occasions, to utilize his TP on a being such as Sentry. The real question is: what type of resistance does Sentry really have for J'onn in that realm?
Second point..........J'onn can hang with Sentry physically powerwise.
Now remember, I didn't say for a win.......I said hang. Let me illustrate a few things here real quick before I go into countering some points.
that's Superboy Prime. Uber powerful. Whom moments before this showing was able to tank serious offensive damage from Black Adam.
I believe that should be enough for now. now let me move on......
Counters and Rebuttals!!!!!
This in regards to what @New_World_Order has proposed in his opening.............
I am more then certain that if anyone of your team tries to go physical with my team they will lose. Oppose to your guys team, I have to characters with planetary strength, while one of you have Martian Manhunter
ok. So MMH's strength level in question in relation to Sentry's is the point in contention here correct? I will showcase this once again.......
this has been illustrated time and time again...........MMH is in the range of high powered Kryptonian. On par with Sentry? thinks so.
Now since this is Death Seed Sentry, have fun trying to kill him or put him down.
Totally true. However in this case as I've stated, I'm only working on keeping up with him, which J'onn has easily the ability to do so.
and that should be good for now. next? Surfer enters the picture to engage Sentry and MMH switches dancing partners.
"This will begin the battle and sound strategy due to the following factors: 1.) one of darkraiden's team eliminated right from the get go."
Agreed
2.) Sentry tied up long enough for an amped Surfer to step in and take over, then MMH can target another foe.
Even Silver Surfer would have trouble with Death Seed Sentry, a lot at that, and although his powerset, let's say is more better suited for Sentry then Thor's is, he is still barely above Thor if even that. We have seen how Sentry treated Thor.
Now can MMH defeat Sentry (as NWO claims he cannot....)? I think he can. However, he does not need to as I would like Surfer to have that honor.and MMH will be more effectively utilized against BM or Thor.
I don't see Martian Manhunter lasting long enough to do much, but okay.
"1st Point: Surfer draining Photon."
I can't say I don't agree with this.
"2nd point: MMH engages Sentry
the first thing here that is essential to realize is that as powerful as Sentry is.......he can be affected by the caliber of TP attack that MMH can dish out. Arguable yes. Now it's relevant that I stated "affected", I did by no means say defeat."
Sentry to my knowledge has never been affected by telepathy, no matter how powerful. If I remember correctly beings only get into his mind when he allows them too, other then that it's never really happened. Although Martian Manhunter has stupid crazy telepathy, I don't think it's something Sentry couldn't overcome. He may be able to get into his mind, but nothing to actually put the Sentry down. Especially since he is amplified by the Death Seed, and his telepathic powers have risen way higher.
"Second point..........J'onn can hang with Sentry physically powerwise.
Now remember, I didn't say for a win.......I said hang. Let me illustrate a few things here real quick before I go into countering some points."
Depends on how you define "hang".
that's Superboy Prime. Uber powerful. Whom moments before this showing was able to tank serious offensive damage from Black Adam.
Those were magical punches, and Prime is highly resistant to magic. Not to mention Prime has been flung around by pretty much everyone in that series, the real feat is, who could actually hurt him ? I guess you can say since his mouth is open like that it did some damage, so i'll give you that.
ok. So MMH's strength level in question in relation to Sentry's is the point in contention here correct? I will showcase this once again.......
Thor is pretty close to Superman in strength, yet he couldn't break Sentry's grip. Martian Manhunter is only at best Superman's rival. When Martian Manhunter can hold someone like Superman in a way where he can't break out using both hands, then we can put these two in the same weight class physically.
"Totally true. However in this case as I've stated, I'm only working on keeping up with him, which J'onn has easily the ability to do so."
You see, Ultraman does not have the same powerset as Sentry. He has nothing in his arsenal to stop such an attack, while Sentry can easily throw him or something at him using telekinesis. I wouldn't be surprised if Sentry just layed him out like he did Thor.
@New_World_Order: very nice, very nice. In all actuality the absolute perfect responses to each point you covered man, I would have said the same exact responses on your side (get out of my head lol.....). Taking all that into consideration however, I planned my counters accordingly. Will have my response back atcha tomorrow. But hey where's darkraiden? let's get him in here and get something in the mix to spice it up before it turns into just our two teams back and forth............
NWO, you said Thor can drain/absorb Monica, and cosmic said the same about Surfer. Well here's the counter.
Look at that scan where Surfer absorbs a measly star. If you read the text he says "I hope I get there before I burst" or something similar, meaning Surfer can't absorb more than a star at a time by his own testimony. Now Monica has WAAAAAAYYYY more energy than a star and even has greater energy absorbing feats than Surfer.
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Her in Nebula form, her against an energy absorber (overloading him), overloading Crimson Dynamo, and even overloading Bishop who's handled the energy of the X-Men before and used it to hurt Legion.
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Again, absorbing extradimensional energy and the energy from a hole between two Universes
So that's out. Not to mention that Thor is far too slow and too vulnerable to do much to her. He's been blinded by her attacking OTHER people. Imagine if she directed that on him? Not to mention she's moved fast enough to do multiple tasks before Thor could even BREATHE. He's not touching her at all.
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Also I added in her turning into lightning a few times to counter another strategy, NWO said Thor would bombard the area with lightning? Not only is lightning far too slow to Monica to touch her, but she can turn into lightning and simply absorb the energy, making Thor's efforts wasted.
And take note that this is normal Monica and here she's AMPED by Blue Marvel.
Now you say Sentry will blitz Blue Marvel (I have doubts that he's capable tbh since he needed help last time), but I don't see him getting past Monica who's not only much faster but can simply kill him by manipulating the electricity in his brain, as she did to Shuma-Gorath. I've seen no counter to this, and regen or not, he'll be brain dead and fried for a while. Also he's never shown to come back from brain manipulation, only lesser wounds.
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As for Blue Marvel not being a powerhouse on Thor and Sentry and MMH's level the evidence shown would disagree. Blue Marvel is shown oneshotting Sentry into orbit, KOing him and hitting Namor "as hard as Hulk and Thor" but....notice a big difference between those hits and the last one? He wasn't even using anti-matter on his hits like he was with King Hyperion. And you'll note that in that KH fight, Bue Marvel is hit harder by KH than he is by Sentry, multiple times, and is fine and keeps on trading blows. Thor might.....and I do mean might be able to absorb anti-matter, but it won't do him much good when he's blinded by Monica and when he's being hit in the face by said anti-matter.
Now to address the MMH take out plan, we know a few things that make this possible.
1. Monica is at the very least FTL
2. Thoughts/TP isn't
3. MMH is weak to a form of fire (whether it be normal or emotionally charged or w/e, it's at least a vulnerability)
4. Monica can take the form of fire and radiant heat that's even hotter than lightning (which is hotter than the sun iirc)
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There it shows her burning a monster that lightning did nothing too and it shows her holograms/illusions that work even on Zeus. Add in that she can absorb huge, untold amounts of energy, her speed (the fastest one here when combining reaction and movement speed), and her ability to hurt skyfathers and the like (Zeus twice), and you guys are pretty much sleeping on her too much.
Not to mention she can go shrink to atomic size or go invisible so that none of your team can sense her. And of course, Blue Marvel is either tied for the strongest, or the strongest brick here when you take in his anti-matter abilities+strength and durability.
My strategy remains:
1. Monica is amped by Blue Marvel
2. She takes out MMH in fire form and/or electricity in the brain
3. Blue Marvel still rumbles with the powerhuses
4. Apparently Thor's shooting lightning so Monica will be absorbing that, blinding Thor and taking out Sentry with brain electricity
5. Blue Marvel+Monica take out Surfer and Thor or watch them fight and take the winner (Surfer since Thor will be blinded)
Look at that scan where Surfer absorbs a measly star. If you read the text he says "I hope I get there before I burst" or something similar, meaning Surfer can't absorb more than a star at a time by his own testimony. Now Monica has WAAAAAAYYYY more energy than a star and even has greater energy absorbing feats than Surfer
k. lemme break this down:
a "measly star". pffft. c'mon now. That's impressive.
prove Monica has more energy than a star bro. I'm uber familiar with her. has it SPECIFICALLY ever been stated or shown that's the case? I don't believe so, and could be wrong but until you prove it I say.......Nay.
Greater energy absorbing feats that Surfer? Once again I say.............pffft. That's a whole nother debate in itself. Once again I say.....Nay.
These scans you posted really don't do much to illustrate your case there on that one pal.
Her in Nebula form, her against an energy absorber (overloading him), overloading Crimson Dynamo, and even overloading Bishop who's handled the energy of the X-Men before and used it to hurt Legion.
Meh. Nothin scary to The Herald here. weak sauce.
Again, absorbing extradimensional energy and the energy from a hole between two Universes
Same as above.
So that's out
Oh far from it my man. There's one issue in particular that I would like to speak of, and what occurred in it. Ever read Avengers Annual 16?
In this issue (and I am searching for the specific scan.....so bear with me) but Monica was killed by Drax the Destroyer and Captain Mar-vell by having her energy drained off. Sooooo..........yeah, it can happen. And if those two cosmic type guys can pull it off then so can Surfer. End of Story.
As for Blue Marvel not being a powerhouse on Thor and Sentry and MMH's level the evidence shown would disagree.
Actually I got mad respect for BM. He can hang for sure.
Now to address the MMH take out plan, we know a few things that make this possible
Woah, wait a sec there pal!!! This whole plan of action is not happening. Surfer takes out Monica. Yes Monica is FTL, so is Surfer. Surfer proven high energy absorber. Monica is energy. Monica has been incapacitated in this way at least once before. Closed case man.
My strategy remains:
1. Monica is amped by Blue Marvel
2. She takes out MMH in fire form and/or electricity in the brain
3. Blue Marvel still rumbles with the powerhuses
4. Apparently Thor's shooting lightning so Monica will be absorbing that, blinding Thor and taking out Sentry with brain electricity
5. Blue Marvel+Monica take out Surfer and Thor or watch them fight and take the winner (Surfer since Thor will be blinded
SO your strategy then as it stands is flawed bud.
okay, Monica gets amped. Now Surfer is all the more stronger to face Sentry, thanks.
1. Yes a measly star. I showed her absorbing energy between 2 Universes. She also hurt Zeus enough for the likes of She-Hulk and Namor to hurt him. That's Galaxy level durability that just got hurt btw.
2. Her greater feat was the absorbing of energy between 2 Universes as said above.
3. That issue was filled with PIS. She-Hulk manhandled Classic Planet buster Drax....and yet lost to Hawkeye. Wonder Man beat Hyperion by flying him into the sun and a whole bunch of other garbage like Hank Pym overpowering super strength Wasp (at the time). It was clearly PIS. Everyone has low showings and I mean....Surfer's had worse happen to him. Like losing to Dracula, Mexicans, Armbars, etc.
4. So...you forget that Surfer doesn't quite have the reaction speed feats that Monica has. While he flies fast enough, he doesn't react, think, etc. as much as she does, nor does he leave people standing still as he does stuff like she does. Plus he'll be busy with Thor, Blue Marvel, Sentry, etc. And if Surfer steps up, she can easily go through him by changing her form to Neutrinos and/or becoming invisible.
5. Unamped she can absorb far more than a star and can hurt the likes of Zeus.....amped she's far more than Surfer can handle tbh. Also too fast. She MIGHT just drain him instead. A
6. BM would still take Thor, blinded or not and my reasons have been given.
"Look at that scan where Surfer absorbs a measly star. If you read the text he says "I hope I get there before I burst" or something similar, meaning Surfer can't absorb more than a star at a time by his own testimony. Now Monica has WAAAAAAYYYY more energy than a star and even has greater energy absorbing feats than Surfer."
Are you really trying to argue that Monica Rambeau can absorb more energy then Silver Surfer? There is really no argument there, Surfer has absorbed energy from the Crunch, which is far above Monica's range. If anything Thor can even drain her too, and easily at that,
Tell me when Monica Rambeau absorbs a blast from a being who is said to be equaled to a pissed of Odin. Again, way above her pay grade.
"Her in Nebula form, her against an energy absorber (overloading him), overloading Crimson Dynamo, and even overloading Bishop who's handled the energy of the X-Men before and used it to hurt Legion."
Who is this energy absorber? How powerful was he?
Crimson Dynamo isn't that impressive to be used as feat against these top level fighters.
The X-Men don't really have a lot of powerful members, so I don't see that feat being to impressive.
Not trying to low-ball your feats, but if your trying to say Monica is a better absorber then Silver Surfer.
"Again, absorbing extradimensional energy and the energy from a hole between two Universes"
Now that's impressive.
"So that's out. Not to mention that Thor is far too slow and too vulnerable to do much to her. He's been blinded by her attacking OTHER people."
Of course Thor is too slow for her, technically Monica Rambeau is too fast for everyone in this battle. What exactly is she going to do after she blinds him? I don't see how a little light is going to be that troubling for a guy who sits in the sun. It was a temporal light that blinded him, nothing special.
"Imagine if she directed that on him?
It would do some damage, but Monica cannot put Thor down. She lacks the actual damage output to do it, and if she did it would take a lot of blasts, and by time he would finish her.
Not to mention she's moved fast enough to do multiple tasks before Thor could even BREATHE. He's not touching her at all."
Neither is she touching him, she will be drained before she knows it by Surfer.
"Also I added in her turning into lightning a few times to counter another strategy, NWO said Thor would bombard the area with lightning? Not only is lightning far too slow to Monica to touch her, but she can turn into lightning and simply absorb the energy, making Thor's efforts wasted."
Okay, agreed.
"And take note that this is normal Monica and here she's AMPED by Blue Marvel."
Alright, just more energy for Thor and Surfer to drain, and then fire right back.
"Now you say Sentry will blitz Blue Marvel (I have doubts that he's capable tbh since he needed help last time),
This is not normal Sentry though, this is Death Seed Sentry, but when has Sentry ever tried to blitz Blue Marvel before? He hasn't, so how do you know he won't be capable of doing it? He's way faster then anything that has been shown of Marvel.
The scan says enough.
"but I don't see him getting past Monica who's not only much faster but can simply kill him by manipulating the electricity in his brain, as she did to Shuma-Gorath."
I don't think you know just how powerful this Sentry is. How exactly do you shut down a being who can manipulate molecules?
"I've seen no counter to this, and regen or not, he'll be brain dead and fried for a while. Also he's never shown to come back from brain manipulation, only lesser wounds."
Well you can't actually be killed from "brain manipulation". Lesser wounds, huh? How is getting your head smashed a part, and ripped open a "lesser wound"?
I think if you can come back from this...
you can survive a little "brain manipulation".
As for Blue Marvel not being a powerhouse on Thor and Sentry and MMH's level the evidence shown would disagree.
Actually I take that back. He's powerful indeed.
"Blue Marvel is shown oneshotting Sentry into orbit, KOing him and hitting Namor "as hard as Hulk and Thor" but....notice a big difference between those hits and the last one? He wasn't even using anti-matter on his hits like he was with King Hyperion. And you'll note that in that KH fight, Bue Marvel is hit harder by KH than he is by Sentry, multiple times, and is fine and keeps on trading blows."
I see where your getting at, I do take back the fact that he's not as powerful.
"Thor might.....and I do mean might be able to absorb anti-matter, but it won't do him much good when he's blinded by Monica and when he's being hit in the face by said anti-matter."
Even if that hits Thor it wouldn't take him out, and you say it as if the Sentry is going to allow his teammate to just get double teamed.
"Now to address the MMH take out plan, we know a few things that make this possible.
1. Monica is at the very least FTL
2. Thoughts/TP isn't
3. MMH is weak to a form of fire (whether it be normal or emotionally charged or w/e, it's at least a vulnerability)
4. Monica can take the form of fire and radiant heat that's even hotter than lightning (which is hotter than the sun iirc)"
I like this idea, although lightining is only hotter than the surface of the sun, not the actual sun.
"There it shows her burning a monster that lightning did nothing too and it shows her holograms/illusions that work even on Zeus."
Impressive, and although Zeus isn't the smartest of beings, he should have seen that coming.
"Add in that she can absorb huge, untold amounts of energy, her speed (the fastest one here when combining reaction and movement speed), and her ability to hurt skyfathers and the like (Zeus twice), and you guys are pretty much sleeping on her too much."
This is one feat I hate seeing from Monica Rambeau, in what way did she hurt Zeus? He wasn't hurt at all, hence the reason he then one-shots all the Avengers.
Not to mention she can go shrink to atomic size or go invisible so that none of your team can sense her.
Thor has tracking abilities from Mjolnir which can pretty much track where anyone is. She's not hiding, even if it's inside him.
"And of course, Blue Marvel is either tied for the strongest, or the strongest brick here when you take in his anti-matter abilities+strength and durability."
I can't lie he has potential, but no one, and I mean no one strikes harder than Thor with Mjolnir. Thor was hitting Gorr so hard that the moon below them was pratically destroyed, and one far off in the distance was on the verge to being destroyed. That's insane striking force.
Although I can see Sentry out-muscling Blue Marvel in physical strength, I see Blue Marvel striking harder with his Anti-Matter punches. To say he's the strongest is absurd. When it comes to durability I would put Marvel in fifth, second last to Monica. Everyone else can take more punishment then him.
"My strategy remains:
1. Monica is amped by Blue Marvel- I still don't see why you would try and amp a being with energy, when Marvel's potential best energy absorber is there. Silver Surfer or Thor are going to drain her.
2. She takes out MMH in fire form and/or electricity in the brain- Fire form? Potentially. Electric to the brain? I don't think so.
3. Blue Marvel still rumbles with the powerhuses- Yes he can, but can he win? Not likely.
4. Apparently Thor's shooting lightning so Monica will be absorbing that, blinding Thor and taking out Sentry with brain electricity- Same strategy, yet still ineffective
5. Blue Marvel+Monica take out Surfer and Thor or watch them fight and take the winner (Surfer since Thor will be blinded)" - They are deffinetly not taking them down, lol
1. Yeah I'm saying that. You addressed it later and said it was impressive, but I'll break it down more.
Monica absorbed the energy between 2 Universes. Now let's look at this logically. If you make a hole in a dam or a bottle of water, eventually all the water will flow out in time. Monica was not only between 2 metaphorical dams/bottles of water, but she was stuck between them for a few seconds, enough for two normal humans to have an entire conversation with several statements.
There are 300 billion stars in the Milky Way alone. There are an estimated 100-500 billion galaxies in the known universe. So 300 billion * 100 billion = 3e+22 stars in a universe at the very least. In the scan it says the hole will be planet sized soon and that's when both universes will collide. There are 86,400 seconds in a day, and she was there for at least 5-10, so it's 100% likely that she absorbed far more than a star's worth of energy or even a galaxy's. Not to do calcs and whatnot, just giving perspective on what this feat actually means. Not to mention it was 2 universes.
2. Now absorbing from Glory is impressive, but notice that Thor nearly DIED from doing so. And he only lived because of an amp (prayer). Also, notice how I said that Monica would simply be too fast for Thor right? He can't absorb someone he can't see (both from speed AND from him being blinded), and he's likely to be caught by the same trap Zeus got caught by, a living hologram. That, or she could run as I showed her doing from the other energy absorber. She's easily fast enough to before Thor can even get the thought out, so he's out of luck.
Also, can you show Thor or Surfer absorbing life energy from someone who is
A. Faster than them
B. Has energy absorption feats of her own (the universe absorption feat I calced above)
C. Has shorted out energy absorbers.
3. Um....you saw that I said that Bishop hurt Legion right? Universal reality warper who's far above everyone here? And X-Men have A LOT of energy. Storm's hurt Surfer and dispersed Stardust (another herald of Galactus), Cyclops has taken out Apocalypse, Storm has channeled billions of stars and has manipulated planetary weather movements, and of course, it hurt Legion. Just saying.
4. Thor being blinded allows Blue Marvel to take him out. Also...Monica hurt Zeus and that was before the amp (in this battle). She should be able to put down Thor with little difficulty.
5. Remember that Thor and Surfer have limits (and Thor's too slow) , especially Surfer, just to star level. Monica alone is far past star level and amounts energy and amped she's far above it. there's actually nothing stopping her from draining Surfer in turn. Not that she would bother, he's far too slow to catch her and not powerful enough to drain her.
6. Sentry tried blitzing him from his nice little nap in orbit. Then they fought all without anti-matter.
7. LOL did you just say "how do you manipulate the brain of someone with molecular manipulation"? Does the name Shuma-Gorath not ring a bell to you? The guy who she did the feat to in the first place? And being blown up =/= being shut down. Shuma can also attest to that, as this happened to him before that.
And he came back. Guess what put him down? Monica manipulating his brain's electricity.
8. She hurts Zeus twice. First she cuts his arm (he even makes an expression of pain), and then Thor himself (unless Thor suddenly isn't a good judge nor reliable narrator anymore, which hurts his own feats and Sentry's feats that you posted)
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And Thor even says Zeus has Warrior madness which would make him what? 10x stronger? So yeah. you see him express pain, you see her cut his arm, threaten to do more, hit him (which blinds Thor as a side effect btw) and then Thor says she hurt him more than any mortal ever has. Yes he oneshotted the Avengers but they were 80 tonners like Namor and She-Hulk. We saw what he did to Hulk without trying, they were never going to do much to him. Let's be honest.
9. Thor looks to take like 10 seconds just to activate the tracking. By that time, Blue Marvel has began attacking him, or Monica has put him down or gone inside of his head and began taking out his brain (with a thousand lightspeed attacks)
10. Amping Monica makes sense, especially since Surfer has such small limits in comparison to her. Thor's far too slow to do anything as I've said before. Blue Marvel is easily more durable than Martian Manhunter and likely Thor too. Fighting King Hyperion in a slugging match and being fine shows that.Thor gets manhandled by an amped Sentry while Blue Marvel beats on a guy who hits harder than an enraged Sentry. Monica's durability is not a question here since physical attacks can't hit her and she can absorb any energy.
And I see you saying that electricity in the brain won't work but...can you provide any feat or reason why it wouldn't?I would imagine that Shuma-Gorath, even a small piece of him is far superior to anyone here and it worked just fine. If you think, you have neurons and thus electricity firing in your brain. Monica can manipulate it and is bloodlusted/morals off, that equation only = Monica blows up/shuts down/manipulates your brains. Simple as. Only one who may be immune to that is Surfer since his body isn't flesh and blood. And he'll be taken out other ways (Blue Marvel's punches, anti-matter blasts, Monica's blasts, energy draining, etc.).
You show Presence, but he has no feats even close to Monica of my knowledge. So again, I ask for feats of absorbing energy from someone's body when that person theirself is an energy absorber with damn near universe level feats with it.
"1. Yeah I'm saying that. You addressed it later and said it was impressive, but I'll break it down more."
Okay.
"Monica absorbed the energy between 2 Universes. Now let's look at this logically. If you make a hole in a dam or a bottle of water, eventually all the water will flow out in time. Monica was not only between 2 metaphorical dams/bottles of water, but she was stuck between them for a few seconds, enough for two normal humans to have an entire conversation with several statements.
There are 300 billion stars in the Milky Way alone. There are an estimated 100-500 billion galaxies in the known universe. So 300 billion * 100 billion = 3e+22 stars in a universe at the very least. In the scan it says the hole will be planet sized soon and that's when both universes will collide. There are 86,400 seconds in a day, and she was there for at least 5-10, so it's 100% likely that she absorbed far more than a star's worth of energy or even a galaxy's. Not to do calcs and whatnot, just giving perspective on what this feat actually means. Not to mention it was 2 universes."
That's quite an iffy feat, but whatever.
"2. Now absorbing from Glory is impressive, but notice that Thor nearly DIED from doing so. And he only lived because of an amp (prayer)."
I don't see how that matters, Glory was said by the writer to be as powerful as a pissed off Odin. Does Monica have even 1/5 of that power? No, so it won't matter.
"Also, notice how I said that Monica would simply be too fast for Thor right?"
She is too fast for Thor, but you still haven't shown me how she can put him down.
"He can't absorb someone he can't see (both from speed AND from him being blinded),"
Okay, tell that to the Silver Surfer.
"and he's likely to be caught by the same trap Zeus got caught by, a living hologram."
Which will be followed up by what? What will that actually do, other than annoy him?
"That, or she could run as I showed her doing from the other energy absorber. She's easily fast enough to before Thor can even get the thought out, so he's out of luck."
Look below.
"Also, can you show Thor or Surfer absorbing life energy from someone who is"
"A. Faster than them"
Monica may be faster than Thor, but Surfer is questionable. The guy has scanned everyone's face on the planet before Doctor Strange could finish his sentence. That is insanely fast. That is about 6 billion faces around the world in seconds. Tell me when Monica does that. I can definitely see Surfer draining her.
Another thing is Thor doesn't have to be near Monica to drain her. He has absorbed solar energy from the sun, to fire upon Vampires. She is not out of his reach.
"B. Has energy absorption feats of her own (the universe absorption feat I calced above)"
Doesn't mean anything. That universe feat is being quite overrated by you, I don't think that's what the writers were intending.
"C. Has shorted out energy absorbers."
Any on these two's level?
"3. Um....you saw that I said that Bishop hurt Legion right? Universal reality warper who's far above everyone here?"
Franklin Richards is a universal reality warper. Is he durable? Nope. I fail to see what that means.
"And X-Men have A LOT of energy. Storm's hurt Surfer and dispersed Stardust (another herald of Galactus), Cyclops has taken out Apocalypse, Storm has channeled billions of stars and has manipulated planetary weather movements, and of course, it hurt Legion. Just saying."
Okay.
"4. Thor being blinded allows Blue Marvel to take him out. Also...Monica hurt Zeus and that was before the amp (in this battle). She should be able to put down Thor with little difficulty."
I am really curious how you believe Monica can take out Thor with little difficulty, I mean c'mon really, lol.
"5. Remember that Thor and Surfer have limits (and Thor's too slow) , especially Surfer, just to star level."
The Silver Surfer has "star level abosrbtion abilities", interesting...so again, absorbing energy from the Crunch is nothing.
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Still star level though...
"Monica alone is far past star level and amounts energy and amped she's far above it. there's actually nothing stopping her from draining Surfer in turn. Not that she would bother, he's far too slow to catch her and not powerful enough to drain her."
No she is not past star level, it is not shown how much energy she absorbed between the two universe, your assuming. For all we know it could be well below a star. I don't see any case being made for Monica Rambeau beating anyone here except maybe Martian Manhunter. (Potentially fire?)
6. Sentry tried blitzing him from his nice little nap in orbit. Then they fought all without anti-matter.
Uh, Blue Marvel got knocked out from that blitz from orbit.
And this is an amped Sentry who could demolish Thor, what's your point?
"7. LOL did you just say "how do you manipulate the brain of someone with molecular manipulation"? Does the name Shuma-Gorath not ring a bell to you?"
Oh, because that wasn't just a small, small aspect of Shuma Gorath. Do you really think it had all of it's powers and abilities?
"The guy who she did the feat to in the first place? And being blown up =/= being shut down. Shuma can also attest to that, as this happened to him before that."
Okay, since you want to talk about shutting down, what's stopping Sentry from using a telepathic assault on Monica like he did to Wasp, but far more lethal this time? (He was toying with her).
"And he came back. Guess what put him down? Monica manipulating his brain's electricity."
He came back from Blue Marvel flying through his head, wow. Compared to someone who could come back from being dismembered in many pieces or having their molecules dispersed.
"8. She hurts Zeus twice. First she cuts his arm (he even makes an expression of pain), and then Thor himself (unless Thor suddenly isn't a good judge nor reliable narrator anymore, which hurts his own feats and Sentry's feats that you posted)"
It barely hurt him. It seemed to only stun him.
First of all Zeus looks unhurt, and I think Thor was trying to comfort her by saying that as she just let out everything she had and it did nothing. You even see Namor hit him in the next scene and it does nothing. He's literally standing there from the blast, maybe he was slightly hurt, but not in the way your trying to make this scan so impressive from.
How exactly does it hurt my own feats?
"And Thor even says Zeus has Warrior madness which would make him what? 10x stronger? So yeah. you see him express pain, you see her cut his arm, threaten to do more, hit him (which blinds Thor as a side effect btw) and then Thor says she hurt him more than any mortal ever has. Yes he oneshotted the Avengers but they were 80 tonners like Namor and She-Hulk. We saw what he did to Hulk without trying, they were never going to do much to him. Let's be honest."
"9. Thor looks to take like 10 seconds just to activate the tracking. By that time, Blue Marvel has began attacking him, or Monica has put him down or gone inside of his head and began taking out his brain (with a thousand lightspeed attacks)"
"10. Amping Monica makes sense, especially since Surfer has such small limits in comparison to her."
I'm done arguing this. It's ridiculous. Whatever, he's not even my character, so I shouldn't even care.
Thor's far too slow to do anything as I've said before."
Yet he's capable of fighting with Marvel's fastest, funny.
Blue Marvel is easily more durable than Martian Manhunter and likely Thor too.
More durable then Thor...no.
Tell me when Blue Marvel can tank a brutal beat-down like this from the Destroyer Amour.
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Here's the scan with Kang's blast you were uncertain of. It was a holoblast, and it killed everyone. Wonder Man was left in a pretty bad shape, while Thor wasn't too hurt. Shows how durable Thor is compared to Wonder Man. What makes this feat better was Wonder Man was in his ionic form when this happened, which he is more durable in. Thor still came out in a better shape.
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"Fighting King Hyperion in a slugging match and being fine shows that.Thor gets manhandled by an amped Sentry while Blue Marvel beats on a guy who hits harder than an enraged Sentry. "
No offense, but are you not comprehending what i'm saying? I don't think you are. Thor got man-handled by a Death Seed Sentry who was in full control (No Void trying to take over). Regular Sentry is on Thor's level, it's only logical with a Death Seed he would be more powerful. Blue Marvel only hit Sentry into orbit, what happened after that?
Regardless of who else was in the fight, your twisting it. Blue Marvel only got one good punch that's it.
King Hyperion has not shown anything to show he hits harder than Sentry, let alone Death Seed Sentry, so try again.
Monica's durability is not a question here since physical attacks can't hit her and she can absorb any energy."
Fair enough.
A next thing I would like to add his how blood-lusted Thor can be when extremely mad, or with morals off. When Tanarus ( Ulik ) took his identity, and threatened his home, he killed him with one. I'm not talking about a simple kill, I mean to the point there was only a skull left...
Yeah that's Tanarus's skull...
Also you said Monica can't be affected by Thor's lightning, but everyone else in this battle can.
Thor won't have trouble tagging anyone either. As he can do omni-directional lightning strikes.
Just saying a simple lightning bolt has made Marvel Now Hyperion yell out in pain.
And I see you saying that electricity in the brain won't work but...can you provide any feat or reason why it wouldn't?
It's a possibility, but I don't see her getting to use it. It's not something she's going to use right off the bat, by time she thinks to use...she won't even been in the battle long enough to think to use it.
I would imagine that Shuma-Gorath, even a small piece of him is far superior to anyone here and it worked just fine.
I don't think so, everyone on me and Cosmicallyaware's team have superior beings to that small aspect of Shuma Gorath.
If you think, you have neurons and thus electricity firing in your brain. Monica can manipulate it and is bloodlusted/morals off, that equation only = Monica blows up/shuts down/manipulates your brains. Simple as. Only one who may be immune to that is Surfer since his body isn't flesh and blood. And he'll be taken out other ways (Blue Marvel's punches, anti-matter blasts, Monica's blasts, energy draining, etc.).
Interesting, okay.
You show Presence, but he has no feats even close to Monica of my knowledge. So again, I ask for feats of absorbing energy from someone's body when that person theirself is an energy absorber with damn near universe level feats with it.
It wasn't suppose to be a showing of someone more powerful than Monica, but rather a showing of Thor being able to absorb someones energy from within. Ridiculous, she has no feat to put her on universal level. That feat of yours is insanely being overrated by you.
"And Thor even s ays Zeus has Warrior madness which would make him what? 10x stronger? So yeah. you see him express pain, you see her cut his arm, threaten to do more, hit him (which blinds Thor as a side effect btw) and then Thor says she hurt him more than any mortal ever has.
Your trying your best to make something of nothing. Warriors Madness is an Asgardian thing I believe, so how would Zeus be able to do? I never brought the 10x thing either, or else when Thor was in Warriors Madness he would have caused Silver Surfer, Drax The Destroyer, Beta Ray Bill, and even Thanos to explode from one strike from Mjolnir. Doesn't make sense.
Yes he oneshotted the Avengers but they were 80 tonners like Namor and She-Hulk. We saw what he did to Hulk without trying, they were never going to do much to him. Let's be honest."
"9. Thor looks to take like 10 seconds just to activate the tracking. By that time, Blue Marvel has began attacking him, or
Death Seed Sentry will deal with Blue Marvel.
Monica has put him down or gone inside of his head and began taking out his brain (with a thousand lightspeed attacks)"
What? Monica has never done that, so why would she now?
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