CAV: Colliderz vs Theorder14 (VOTING OPEN)

@colliderz - representing Dante

DMC2 Dante all gear w/o time manipulation

@theorder14 - representing Layfon

Pre-timeskip Layfon w/ Heavens blade

• In character
• No prep, nor prior knowledge
• win by death or KO

Battle Location

@theorder14: Looks good

I will be at home in a hour if you want to go first you can have a go

@theorder14: Mind if I go first?

@colliderz: Sure, go ahead

I'll just copy and paste some basic info of Layfon here

Layfon as an ex-successor of the Heavens Blade possess incredible fighting power. Compared to a regular Military Arts student he's a monster with unimaginable strength which is enough to beat a Filth Monster one-on-one.

Kei: Layfon has an unnaturally high amount of Kei. That and his extraordinary skill at Kei are what made him into a Heavens Blade receiver at the age of 10. Although because of his high Kei only the best Dites can contain his full power. Anything below that is prone to break.

Strength: His high amount of Kei gives him great physical strength. He can effortlessly push a regular Military Artist away with a gentle toss or slice through the hard carapace of Filth Monsters. Although by Heavens Blade standards he isn't that extraordinary. He leans on his Kei output more.

Agility: Layfon has incredible agility. He can move so fast that a regular Military Artist can't follow him. Layfon is a master at dodging and evading incoming attacks. His honed fighting instincts lets him determine each move of the opponent and act accordingly. With the help of external Kei bursts he can also briefly keep himself in the air. Also with he can pull of various acrobatic maneuvers with his Steel Threads.

Learning: Layfon can learn new techniques just by experiencing them once or a few times. The only exceptions are the techniques at the level of Heavens Blade which needs more effort and even then he generally can't copy them perfectly.

Sight: Layfon has his sight enhanced with Kei to see further. Additionally he can see the flow of Kei in a very detailed way and later he learned how to see clearly at night. His sight is so precise that he can see millimeter thin or less wires from tens of meters.

External Kei Bursts: Layfon can use a wide diversity of External Kei techniques. He can shoot those blasts at long distance with extreme precision. In terms of raw power he's no slouch either and his moves can be very devestating. He can keep up with his ex-fellow Heavens Blade receiver, Savaris in terms of power.

Stamina: Layfon can fight three days straight with only minor signs of exhaustion. Although he's mentally not exactly on that level and despite his body can take it even longer his mind starts to get overwhelmed by then.

Kiraboshi

@theorder14:

Son of the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda, Dante tries to make a living as a demon hunter running his own demon hunting agency called ''Devil May Cry''.

1:00 Dante and Vergil's fast clash causes rain to stop in mid air

3:40 Dante stabbed by several Hell Prides but still doesn't seem to be bothered at all

4:30 Shows his H2H skills

5:15 A casual accurancy feat from Dante

Gallery

Gets pierced by a barage of lasers and as always doesn't shows any pain or kind

Reacts a rocket at near point blank range and rides on it

0:40 Gets shot in head by Lady as always doesn't bothered or showed any pain

0:50 Dante cathes Lady's bullet with his teeth

Now all of the above feats are Pre Awakening where Dante's demonic powers were not full awaken

Here are some low end speed feats for Dante

Watch till the gameplay starts

Shows his accurancy again

Here Dante holds off a punch from Savior and lifts it off

Dante one shots giant serpent demon Echidna with ease

Dante one shots Dagon with ease

@colliderz: I guess i'll follow suit and start with Layfon's low end feats.

Base Speed

Crossed 100 meters or so with a casual dash.

Two fodders fight each other here and a student got caught up in the battle. Layfon saved her b4 she got crushed.

8:30 - 9:50 shows Layfon's base speed and he's obviously holding back here. He faces against 2 close-combatants,a long ranger with advanced kei weapons and a telepath. His only objective is to defend the flag here so he doesn't feel the need to use any techniques to neutralize them.

Here's also a speed & accuracy feat from the light novels (Same scene actually)

Tagged a hypersonic sniper Kei bullet with external Kei & speedblitzed his entire team.

Durability

Layfon base durability is only building lvl + but whenever he's in battle, he can increase it to match his firepower which is continent lvl. He have also stated he could take on city lvl energy blast but he rather not because that's not his style and it would only be a waste of energy. He rather intercept,avoids or counter it in some way with his techs.

Layfon tanks 4 cityblock blast and this when he didn't have the Heaven's blade or any weapon to channel.

Heaven's blade shields him from an multi-city block energy beam and redirect it

Shields from an energy beam from Haia

Firepower & techs

Gallery

Shoots curving Kei beams.

Done by Layfon's former teacher here. Layfon could possibly do the same thing by overloading a Kei thread which shouldn't be a problem cuz of his massive Kei.

Now, what other things can these Kei enchanced steel threads do?

Layfon isn't merely controlling these hundreds to thousands of threads. They act like an extension of his own body and he can pretty much see and sense things throught each one of these threads. Notice how Layfon precisely cut only the filth monsters while avoiding the military artist students.As stated in the scans, the threads are able to easily cut the hard shells of the filth monsters which are alot harder than steel.

Here it shows Layfon killing 982 filth monsters that have shells harder than steel + low lvl regeneration in seconds from dozens of kilometers away.

All in all, Layfon is simply superior than Dante. He's more skilled,versatile, faster and is a tactical genius in battle. Unlike Dante who acts cocky most of the time, Layfon is the calm and collected type who always analyze his opponents strenght and weaknesses with his enchanced eyes & senses.

Dante does have a great healing factor but problem is that it's not something new to Layfon. Ever since he was a child, he have fought hill-sized monsters with wolverine to Hulk lvl regenerations on a regular basis and have developed techniques specially for beings with high lvl healing. Namely, the External burst, Psyharden & Heaven's blade techniques.

Here's just a few quotes on what those techniques can do.

Celluar destruction is required here to put down Behemot for good and that's what Layfon as a 10-years old did.

High atk speed.

This is one of the techniques i believe would put down Dante for good if it lands. He fills his Kei into his enemies and it atks them from inside.

@theorder14:

Before I start Dante's versitile fighting styles here are his best speed feats

Dante easily reacts to Blitz's lightning attacks

Dante reacts to a laser from Mundus

Dante reacts and then outruns a light attack from Arius

Now Dante is probably the most versatile video game character in history as he uses 6(excluding time stop) different fighting styles in combat

Trickster

A style focuses on mobility and dodging as Dante follows a more hit & run strategy using air dashes and stuff while attacking with fast and quick attacks

Watching till 0:30 should give you the main idea

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Trickster: "Style that allows the player to avoid enemy attacks using special evasive movements."

Devil May Cry 3

Action		Description
Level 1
Dash		A quick burst of speed propels the player forward. This technique helps get the player out of tight situations and contains invincibility frames.
		Run up walls to avoid enemy attacks.
Level 2
Double Dash		Press after Dashing to perform the Dash maneuver again in rapid succession. Does not contain invincibility frames.
Sky Star		A quick aerial dash that propels you forward through the air.
Level 3
Triple Dash		Press after Double Dashing to perform yet another Dash maneuver. Does not contain invicibility frames.
Air Trick		Disappear in the blink of an eye, then reappear above the enemy ready to strike.

Devil May Cry 4

Action		Description
Dash	A quick dash that allows you to deftly evade enemy attacks.
Sky Star	Use magical energy to create a mid-air platform from which you can kick off and move horizontally.
Mustang	Close in on an enemy by dashing, then use their body as a platform to jump into the air.
Flipper	Flip back into a safe position after being knocked off your feet by enemy attacks.
Air Trick	Aim above an enemy's head and disappear in the blink of an eye with blindingly quick movements.

Swordmaster

As the name says while using this style Dante focuses on his swordplay performing far more advanced sword attacks compared to the ones he uses in his other styles

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Swordmaster: "Style in which player can master different swords and maximize each sword's power."

Gunslinger

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Gunslinger: "Style in which player can master different guns and maximize each gun’s technique."

Same as the swordmaster for Dante's firearms and ranged attacks

Darkslayer

Now for his three strongest styles starting off with Darkslayer style which originaly belongs to Dante's twin brother Vergil as Dante gained in DMC4 and the advanced version of Trickster basicly allowing Dante to teleport in combat

Doppelganger

Doppelganger is the style where Dante creates a doppelgnager and use it in combat

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Doppelganger: "Style that allows the player to control shadows, effectively creating copies of himself to assist in battle."

Also his doppelganger is as strong as him

Royalguard

Dante's defense style as he focuses on parrying his enemies attacks which he restrores and releases back at full force or convert them into life energy for himself

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Royalguard: "Minimizing the damage of an enemy attack, this style allows the player to maneuver into a more strategic position."

Devil May Cry 3Edit

Action	Command	Description
Level 1
Block & Charge	(ground)	Block incoming attacks, slowly building up your anger and adrenaline.
Just Block		Block 1/10th of a second before an enemy attack. Negate the damage of the attack and charges the Royal Gauge more than usual.
Release	++ (ground)	Release pent-up anger charged from blocked enemy attacks to do major damage.
Just Release	++	Release 1/10th of a second before an enemy attacks. Deals significantly more damage than a normal Release.
Level 2
Air Block	(mid-air)	Block in mid-air.
Air Release	++ (mid-air)	Perform a release in mid-air.
Level 3
Ultimate	++	Block enemy attacks and convert the block energy into life power for yourself.

Devil May Cry 4Edit

Action		Description
Block		Minimize the damage taken from an enemy's attack, while at the same time accumulating power within the Royal Gauge.
Air Block		Minimize the damage taken from an enemy's mid-air attack, while at the same time accumulating power within the Royal Gauge.
Royal Block		Block an enemy's attack at the last second to negate all damage and greatly increase the angry energy stored within the Royal Gauge.
Release		Release all the energy stored in the Royal Gauge, and lash out at your enemies with an explosion of dreadful power.
Air Release		Release all the energy stored in the Royal Gauge, and lash out at airborne enemies with an explosion of dreadful power.
Royal Release		Release all the anger stored within you as a violent, damaging counter-attack against those unfortunate enough to provoke you.
Dreadnaught		A mysterious technique that transforms the body into a seemingly metallic shell impervious to enemy assault. The duration of the technique is linked to the amount of energy stored within the Royal Gauge.

Here is Royalguard in action as Dante blocks Savior's beam attack with ease

By having enough energy restored Dante can also change into his Dreadnaught form which is the very likely the ''tank'' version ofhis Devil Trigger

@colliderz:

Dante easily reacts to Blitz's lightning attacks

Reacting to his lightning atks in-game? Meh, guess i'll buy it since he did react to Blitz in the cutscence but couldn't tag him.

Dante reacts to a laser from Mundus

Honestly, Dante staring at Mundus charging up for around 10 sec doesn't rly feel like a reaction feat. It's more like he anticipated that laser.

Dante reacts and then outruns a light attack from Arius

Didn't rly look impressive as an attack and light attacks doesn't necessary mean they travel at light speed.

Trickster

A style focuses on mobility and dodging as Dante follows a more hit & run strategy using air dashes and stuff while attacking with fast and quick attacks

Watching till 0:30 should give you the main idea

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Trickster: "Style that allows the player to avoid enemy attacks using special evasive movements."

Swordmaster

As the name says while using this style Dante focuses on his swordplay performing far more advanced sword attacks compared to the ones he uses in his other styles

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Swordmaster: "Style in which player can master different swords and maximize each sword's power."

Gunslinger

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Gunslinger: "Style in which player can master different guns and maximize each gun’s technique."

Same as the swordmaster for Dante's firearms and ranged attacks

Darkslayer

Now for his three strongest styles starting off with Darkslayer style which originaly belongs to Dante's twin brother Vergil as Dante gained in DMC4 and the advanced version of Trickster basicly allowing Danteto teleport in combat

All those styles are nice and all but they would not be much of a problem against Layfon for several reasons. He can read Dante's every movements with his Kei enchanced eyes and just like Taskmaster, Cassandra Cain,Kakashi etc he can peform the same move after only seeing it once. He have pretty much already copied every movements and unique styles of most fighters in Grendan but ofc, his main styles are the Psyharden arts and Heaven Blade techniques. There's also the fact that Layfon have precognition-like instincts and can feel the enemies bloodthirst/fighting spirit and locate their position that way. He's also a powerful wind manipulator and can feel the slightest changes of the air current so he doesn't have any blind spots at all.

I can confidently say that Layfon's combat speed is faster than Dante's by a large margin. Certainly, Dante is fast but he hasn't really shown any impressive combat speed in cutscenes and i believe his fastest speed feats in-game is when he turns into demon form and when he equips Alastor which makes him lightning speed, correct? But do prove me wrong if i am.

Let's get on to Layfon's speed feats.

I've shown u Layfon's base speed in my previous post which is hypersonic + but the thing is that Layfon have three speed techniques and he also gets a massive speed boost with the Heaven's Blade. The speed techniques Layfon have mastered are called *Whirl kei*, *Fleeting Shadow* and *Water mirror*.

The anime have only adapted 7 volumes out of 25 so i can only show u one of the speed techniques which is the slowest of them and that is the Whirl Kei. In order, Whirl Kei < Fleeting Shadow <<<Water Mirror.

Layfon using the Whirl Kei

Quote from LN vol 5 Ch 5

Fleeting Shadow is a technique which is meant to disorient the enemy by creating afterimages

Ch 6

And finally, his greatest speed technique, the water mirror. I would even go as far and say he's FTL when using it with the Heaven's Blade but there's no direct statement. By powerscaling, he's FTL and there's lots of hints and bits that points he is one. I know that he's at least much faster than lightning and he's faster than Kanaris who can cut billions of pieces of a filth monster in one second. There's also the fact that Layfon blitzed Lævateinn who's easily FTL & reactions but that was mostly because she underestimated him & the distance was only a few meters between them. Layfon have also faced Durandal with the help of many others actually. It travelled from the moon to the earth's surface in a blink of an eye but that was most likely only travel speed. Another thing that points Layfon into being FTL is that he easily speedblitzed Lævateinn thorn atks and those were fast enough to catch ur average Heaven's Blade Military soldiers who have FTL reaction and MHS + movement speed.

I would honestly say that he's FTL in short burst only w/ Heaven's blade.

Here's some quotes of the water Mirror

w/o the Heaven's Blade

w/ Heaven's Blade

And here's one of the many reaction speed feats that proves Layfon have FTL reaction and this was when he didn't possess the Heaven's Blade which allows him to use his full powers & abilities.

Layfon fights and reacts to someone who tried to speedblitz him at lightning speed + and another person who shot speed of light beams at him from multiple directions. Yet, Layfon managed to react fast enough to deflect their attacks. We also get to see how the fight looks like from Sharnid's perspective, who has superhuman vision and senses.

Layfon with his reinforced eyes can also see people fighting at FTL. At first, Layfon couldn't see the Queen, Alsheyra who fought against Laevatein at speed FTL +. It wasn't until when Layfon had to pour kei into his eyes and enchance his senses is when he finally could see them and participate in the fight. Still, While his mind and eyes can sense/see them, obviously, his body cannot keep up in such speed for too long. The only reason he was still in the game was because of his ability to read and predict their movements.

Quote from Vol 22 ch 4

Layfon keeps up with the Queen's and Lævateinn's movements with his eyes and mind.

Layfon managed to keep up in the fight thanks to his ability to predict their movements even though both of them is much faster than him.

Again, this is Layfon w/o his Heaven's blade.

It greatly amps his stats & is like Layfon's *Mjolnir*. Its one of the few weapons that allows him to draw out his true strenght. Every other weapon is prone to break because they have limits but the Heaven's blade is completely indesructible and can contain infinite Kei energy.

Doppelganger

Doppelganger is the style where Dante creates a doppelgnager and use it in combat

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Doppelganger: "Style that allows the player to control shadows, effectively creating copies of himself to assist in battle."

Also his doppelganger is as strong as him

That's cute. I believe the doppelganger always peform the same movements as Dante so it would be easy to read its movements.

But guess what? While Dante can create one doppelganger who mimics him, Layfon can create 20 - 30 clones to fight for him. Each with the same base stats as Layfon and is capable of unleashing at least one External burst. :D

He can also pull a Naruto and create thousands of clones if he wanted to but that's not his style and in-character, he would only create 20-30 or so to disorient his enemies.

Royalguard

Dante's defense style as he focuses on parrying his enemies attacks which he restrores and releases back at full force or convert them into life energy for himself

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Style File — Royalguard: "Minimizing the damage of an enemy attack, this style allows the player to maneuver into a more strategic position."

I believe Royalguard requires excellent timing and it can only block one attack/combo at a time. I think there were some atks in DmC 4 which royal guard couldn't block if i remembered correctly.

Anyways, few things Layfon could do is spamming external burst technique from multiple direction at Dante like Kei Needles or Kei enchanced steel threads.

Have royal guard ever blocked elemental and sound-based atks? Cuz that's what Layfon is capable of and i don't see exactly how Dante could block something w/o form like wind & sound.

Now, i'd like an explaination as to how Royalguard is going to block these techniques.

Uses the Psyharden technique : Snake Fall

Here's the quote from the same scene in the gif from the ln

Uses the Roar-Kei which is powerful enough to disrupt matter at a molecular level.

Quote from the LN

I guess i should mention that Layfon have yet to fully master this technique so the use of it is limited & he would risk damaging his throat if he overuse it.

Overall, Layfon is simply more skilled,versatile & far more faster like i mentioned. There's also the fact that he have the superior tactical mind than Dante.

Okay, ur move

@theorder14:

Reacting to his lightning atks in-game? Meh, guess i'll buy it since he did react to Blitz in the cutscence but couldn't tag him.

Actually since in game material is depowered and restricted version of the character so it can be used as valid feat.Also he underastemated Blitz which was clearly seen from his face

Honestly, Dante staring at Mundus charging up for around 10 sec doesn't rly feel like a reaction feat. It's more like he anticipated that laser.

You would be right if this was a dodging feat but charging time doesn't matter whille its ar reaction feat since the important part is the quick manuver Dante did to refflect it right before contact

Didn't rly look impressive as an attack and light attacks doesn't necessary mean they travel at light speed.

You might be right to a extend but his former reaction feat and DMC2 Dante being the strongest version also supports this feat heavily

All those styles are nice and all but they would not be much of a problem against Layfon for several reasons. He can read Dante's every movements with his Kei enchanced eyes and just like Taskmaster, Cassandra Cain,Kakashi etc he can peform the same move after only seeing it once. He have pretty much already copied every movements and unique styles of most fighters in Grendan but ofc, his main styles are the Psyharden arts and Heaven Blade techniques. There's also the fact that Layfon have precognition-like instincts and can feel the enemies bloodthirst/fighting spirit and locate their position that way. He's also a powerful wind manipulator and can feel the slightest changes of the air current so he doesn't have any blind spots at all.

But guess what? While Dante can create one doppelganger who mimics him, Layfon can create 20 - 30 clones to fight for him. Each with the same base stats as Layfon and is capable of unleashing at least one External burst. :D

Can you show them in combat ?

I believe Royalguard requires excellent timing and it can only block one attack/combo at a time. I think there were some atks in DmC 4 which royal guard couldn't block if i remembered correctly.

Anyways, few things Layfon could do is spamming external burst technique from multiple direction at Dante like Kei Needles or Kei enchanced steel threads.

Have royal guard ever blocked elemental and sound-based atks? Cuz that's what Layfon is capable of and i don't see exactly how Dante could block something w/o form like wind & sound.

Now, i'd like an explaination as to how Royalguard is going to block these techniques.

First Royal Guard works as a basic block but when its used right before contact it does the stuff he posted above and that excellent timing can be done in gamplay if you are a pro gamer(also considering gameplay is depowered version he can do them with ease)

I can confidently say that Layfon's combat speed is faster than Dante's by a large margin. Certainly, Dante is fast but he hasn't really shown any impressive combat speed in cutscenes and i believe his fastest speed feats in-game is when he turns into demon form and when he equips Alastor which makes him lightning speed, correct? But do prove me wrong if i am.

He didn't showed much combat speed since it combat happens in gameplay and DT is just a multiplies his stats with giving him few new tricks and yes Alastor is lightning speed(I will get to in this post)

Layfon using the Whirl Kei

Well the second video in your previous post was low hypersonic so I am getting this as mid hypersonic

Fleeting Shadow is a technique which is meant to disorient the enemy by creating afterimages

Actually I don't think this is impressive(for Layfon) since creating after images is a good strategy move but I see any speed feats since after images were created by supersonic people before

With a speed that was even faster than Uzu Kei (external Whirl Kei), Layfon rushed Savaris. Their gazes overlapped. Though Savaris had yet to ready his stance, he managed to react with his leg.

Is there any thing that shows the speed difference between these two

Layfon fights and reacts to someone who tried to speedblitz him at lightning speed + and another person who shot speed of light beams at him from multiple directions. Yet, Layfon managed to react fast enough to deflect their attacks. We also get to see how the fight looks like from Sharnid's perspective, who has superhuman vision and senses.

Layfon with his reinforced eyes can also see people fighting at FTL. At first, Layfon couldn't see the Queen, Alsheyra who fought against Laevatein at speed FTL +. It wasn't until when Layfon had to pour kei into his eyes and enchance his senses is when he finally could see them and participate in the fight. Still, While his mind and eyes can sense/see them, obviously, his body cannot keep up in such speed for too long. The only reason he was still in the game was because of his ability to read and predict their movements.

Here the first one you showed looks more impressive since precog helps a lot (even mid hypersonic people can react to lightspeed for brief second) but the first one shows he has light speed reaction and with Heaven's Balde I doubt the movement but he should have FTL reaction but Dante also has DT and even a stronger version Majin DT in comparison to Heaven's Blade

Now for the attacks you said Dante can't block with Royalguard and you are right he can't block them with but that doesn't means he can't handle them

Uses the Psyharden technique : Snake Fall

I don't Dante getting blown away by a wind attack since he's a 100,000 tonner

Uses the Roar-Kei which is powerful enough to disrupt matter at a molecular level.

Dante has fought against reality warpers on dimensional scale(Ex: Mundus created a pocket dimesion in the end of DMC1 to fight against Dante)

Now for Dante's notable weapons in his arsenal

First lets start with Alastor

Alastor

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Plasma: "Alastor is the form of "Spirit of Lightning". It only obeys commands of the chosen one. Hence, the powers of the Alastor do not work effectively against thePlasma."

Devil May Cry, Devil Arms — Alastor: "Gives the possessor lightning speed and aerial capabilities."

Even thought he showed a better feat in DMC2 Alastor gives Dante lightning speed and in addition to this it gives a danger sense as he senses Nelo Angelo disguised as him inside a mirror

Rebellion

Dante's standart sword not has a lot notable thing but it was strong enough to par with Yamato a sword that can cut through dimensional barriers

Devil May Cry 4, Dante's Arms File — Rebellion: "A memento given to Dante by his father, this large magical blade is the physical manifestation of Dante’s power."

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Devil Arms File — Rebellion: "A keepsake sword from Dante's father. Dante's blood has awakened the blade's true power."

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Combat Adjudicator — Rebellion: "I am the combat adjudicator. Only a technique imbued with magic essence can move me."

Now before I get into the top 2 swords he has a deep versatile arsenal with

Here is the sum up of them

Yamato

Formerly belonged to his twin brother Vergil Yamato is the legendary sword that sealed the demonic verse in DMC

Devil May Cry 4, Dante's Arms File — Yamato: "A katana used by Dante’s brother, it is both the key to opening the Hell Gates, and to their very destruction."

Devil May Cry 4

Force Edge/Sparda

As its said above Sparda(weaker than DMC2 Dante when DMC1 Dante was stated to be stronger than him at a point) was able to seal half of the universe(demon world) via his power which is imbueded in his sword Sparda

Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition, Devil Arms File — Force Edge: "A sword magically imbued with Sparda's power. A powerful sword with great hidden potential."

Devil May Cry 2, Weapon File — Sparda: "The Dark Knight's beloved sword."

Devil May Cry, Devil Arms — Sparda: "It's the true form of the Force Edge, the sword wielded by the Legendary Dark Knight, Sparda."

I would really like to see if Heaven's Blade can top these two and this not all of Dante because I will show his DT in my next post till then its your turn

@colliderz:

Actually since in game material is depowered and restricted version of the character so it can be used as valid feat.Also he underastemated Blitz which was clearly seen from his face

Well, to me it looked like he acted cocky as usual.

You would be right if this was a dodging feat but charging time doesn't matter whille its ar reaction feat since the important part is the quick manuver Dante did to refflect it right before contact

Yes it matters. Dante knows where it will atk from and to a degree when it would fire.

Look it like this.It's like Polnareff couldn't react to the speed of light because he didn't know where it would move but once he knew its trajectory, he could easily cut it.

Besides, we don't know if that laser is rly travelling at the speed of light & there wasn't much power to it. So i don't think we can accept that as a FTL reaction unless it's stated as such otherwise i can claim Layfon's light beams atks r also travelling at light speed.

You might be right to a extend but his former reaction feat and DMC2 Dante being the strongest version also supports this feat heavily

U gotta prove it first. There's no gurantee his reaction speed increases unless he have the feats for it.

Can you show them in combat ?

Well, the battle ended b4 he could atk it in the anime but i've this quote from the light novel.

And here's some1 using the exact same technique in the anime

First Royal Guard works as a basic block but when its used right before contact it does the stuff he posted above and that excellent timing can be done in gamplay if you are a pro gamer(also considering gameplay is depowered version he can do them with ease)

Problem is that he wouldn't be able to block several atks coming at him at once from multiple directions. He have only ever blocked an attack or combo in-game but never recived multiple atks i believe. That and Layfon's DC is far greater than any1 can dish out in the game. Even Mundus if we're going by feats only.

He didn't showed much combat speed since it combat happens in gameplay and DT is just a multiplies his stats with giving him few new tricks and yes Alastor is lightning speed(I will get to in this post)

Yes but we don't know exactly how he would utilise this speed. Doesn't matter anyways since Layfon have easily blitzed Kei users that are faster than lightning like Haia, Nina Antalk & Claribel just to name a few.

Well the second video in your previous post was low hypersonic so I am getting this as mid hypersonic

I think it's higher than that considering Layfon crossed from Zuellni to Myath in a blink of an eye and the distance between them r at least a few km.

Actually I don't think this is impressive(for Layfon) since creating after images is a good strategy move but I see any speed feats since after images were created by supersonic people before

Gee, the point with this technique wasn't to create afterimages, it's just something extra to confuse the enemy even further. It pretty much gives Layfon a speed boost and is meant to cause his opponent to misjudge the distance.

Is there any thing that shows the speed difference between these two

I believe i've already posted the quotes of the two techniques but we do know for a fact that Layfon's Water Mirror is much faster than whirl kei and that is w/o his Heaven's blade. + The diffrence between Layfon with it and without is huge. Proof is that Felli Loss, a sensor Psychokinesis who can keep up with people moving at massively hypersonic speed couldn't even keep up with Layfon at all with the Heaven's blade.( I'll post the quote of it later or in my next post)

Here the first one you showed looks more impressive since precog helps a lot (even mid hypersonic people can react to lightspeed for brief second) but the first one shows he has light speed reaction and with Heaven's Balde I doubt the movement but he should have FTL reaction but Dante also has DT and even a stronger version Majin DT in comparison to Heaven's Blade

I don't rly understand what ur talking about here. He didn't have the Heaven's blade in these two battles if that's what u think. Any reasons as to why u think he doesn't have FTL movements?

Reasons why i believe he have FTL movements in short burst is because

• He kept up with Lævateinn and actually fought her in his maximal kei state and that's w/o Heaven's blade, even managed to blitz her at the end.
• Easily speedblitzed Lævateinn's thorn atks and they are fast enough to catch an average Heaven's blader.
• He's faster than Kanaris who can cut a huge filth monster into billions of pieces in a second.( I'll search & post the quote later)
• He fought Durandal who travelled from the moon to the earth's surface in a second. It's most likely only travel speed but its atks was also insanely fast which Layfon could easily avoid.
• He's faster than Nina who can move so fast that the friction in the air created lightning.
• He's easily faster than Ruimei who outspeed light beams atks but they weren't stated to travel at light speed unfortunately.

And he did all these things w/o Heaven's Blade (Excluding his fight against Durandal).

I don't Dante getting blown away by a wind attack since he's a 100,000 tonner

What feats put him at 100.000 tons? I rly hope ur not talking about him blocking Savior's punch and shoved it aside cuz pretty much every average Heaven's blader can achieve the same feat.

Also, i don't see how him being strong prevents him from getting blown away & disoriented by Snake Fall.

Dante has fought against reality warpers on dimensional scale(Ex: Mundus created a pocket dimesion in the end of DMC1 to fight against Dante)

umm, okay so what does this have to do with anything with Roar Kei which can turn Dante into dust?

If u wanna compare Dante & Layfon bad guys then i'll say that Layfon's enemies r easily far more powerful than Mundus. Layfon have fought a moon buster to potentionally planet busters and even two reality warpers. There's even a reality warper in the Regiosverse who created an entire universe and it's also the same one who created the Heaven's blade & made it indestructible.

Anyways, i don't see how it matters in this fight between Dante & Layfon honestly.

Alastor

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Plasma: "Alastor is the form of "Spirit of Lightning". It only obeys commands of the chosen one. Hence, the powers of the Alastor do not work effectively against thePlasma."

Devil May Cry, Devil Arms — Alastor: "Gives the possessor lightning speed and aerial capabilities."

Even thought he showed a better feat in DMC2 Alastor gives Dante lightning speed and in addition to this it gives a danger sense as he senses Nelo Angelo disguised as him inside a mirror

So only lightning speed? Layfon easily blitz then with external burst, Psyharden arts & Heaven's blade techs.

Rebellion

Dante's standart sword not has a lot notable thing but it was strong enough to par with Yamato a sword that can cut through dimensional barriers

Devil May Cry 4, Dante's Arms File — Rebellion: "A memento given to Dante by his father, this large magical blade is the physical manifestation of Dante’s power."

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Devil Arms File — Rebellion: "A keepsake sword from Dante's father. Dante's blood has awakened the blade's true power."

Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening, Combat Adjudicator — Rebellion: "I am the combat adjudicator. Only a technique imbued with magic essence can move me."

Well, ya know. Lady's Bazooka also blocked Yamato. Great dimension cutting there. xD

Yamato

Formerly belonged to his twin brother Vergil Yamato is the legendary sword that sealed the demonic verse in DMC

Devil May Cry 4, Dante's Arms File — Yamato: "A katana used by Dante’s brother, it is both the key to opening the Hell Gates, and to their very destruction."

Devil May Cry 4

Action	Description
Slash Dimension F	A swift motion of the blade that cuts through dimensional barriers and unleashes a vortex of destruction.
Slash Dimension C	A swift motion of the blade that cuts throughdimensional barriers and unleashesaslicingcyclonewith you at its origin.
Yamato Combo S	A lightning quick three hit combo from the legendary blade, Yamato.
Aerial Rave V	Two quick slashes that cut through the air.

Tbh, the only impressive feat i've seen from Yamato is when Dante got it for the first time. Since then it haven't shown any great feats and couldn't even pierce the Savior properly.

Now on to the in-gameplay.

Well, it doesn't look like they they're getting one-shotted there but ofc its in-game. Yamato could pierce Layfon's standard forcefield but i doubt it could cut the Heaven's Blade as it's a weapon created by a reality warper and made it completely indestructible.

i've noticed that there's always a delay when Dante's dimension cuts and that's something Layfon can easily exploit. There's also the fact that Dante can only use one weapon at a time so no Alastor lightning speed here if he decide to use Yamato or any other weapon.

Anyways, i'd say Layfon could easily avoid it because of his precognition-like instincts, ability to feel the slightest changes in the air current & feel the enemy's bloodthirst.+ Superior reaction speed and far greater movement speed.

Force Edge/Sparda

As its said above Sparda(weaker than DMC2 Dante when DMC1 Dante was stated to be stronger than him at a point) was able to seal half of the universe(demon world) via his power which is imbueded in his sword Sparda

Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition, Devil Arms File — Force Edge: "A sword magically imbued with Sparda's power. A powerful sword with great hidden potential."

Devil May Cry 2, Weapon File — Sparda: "The Dark Knight's beloved sword."

Devil May Cry, Devil Arms — Sparda: "It's the true form of the Force Edge, the sword wielded by the Legendary Dark Knight, Sparda."

This tells me nothing other than it's a powerful sealing weapon against demons. Any feats of it?

I would really like to see if Heaven's Blade can top these two and this not all of Dante because I will show his DT in my next post till then its your turn

Well, depending on who's wielding the heaven's blade, one can become a city buster to planet buster. As for Layfon, he have shown that he's easily a large continent buster with actual feats. If we accept powerscale & statements then he's a planet buster but he have ofc never done it because he's a good guy.

Alright, i believe i'll have to hunt down some quotes to prove my points so it might take a while until my next post.

Until then.

@theorder14:

This is smt I forgot to say but how good is Layfon's pain tolerance since Dante is a swordmaster it will matter more than his durability

And here is Dante's

Here Dante first punched by Abigail gets his torso ripped off and then his body gets impaled by 6-7 of Abigail's claws, lauhs off in response

Layfon will have a hard time trying to actually hurt Dante

Well, to me it looked like he acted cocky as usual.

Well you can point it out like that too which also shows he didn't expected him too be this strong and more reason to holding back and underastamenting

Yes it matters. Dante knows where it will atk from and to a degree when it would fire.

Look it like this.It's like Polnareff couldn't react to the speed of light because he didn't know where it would move but once he knew its trajectory, he could easily cut it.

Of course reacting to smt that you don't know is a better feat but reacting to smt LS while knowing the location counts as LS reflex too

U gotta prove it first. There's no gurantee his reaction speed increases unless he have the feats for it.

He doesn't shows direct speed feats except that one but he shows a large amount of improvement in general between DMC1 and 2 as he beat Mundus after a good much in DMC1 and after that he faced against Abigail and Argosax the Chaos who were stated to be on par with Mundus himself multiple times and Dante beat them with relative ease

Also not a very clear one but about speed directly as Dante was too fast for Argosax at the end and he couldn't see where he was compared to Mundus

Well, ya know. Lady's Bazooka also blocked Yamato. Great dimension cutting there. xD

Well that looks like a PIS not because it crosses with the manual but Yamato's cutscene feats too also as you can see not all of the attacks has been stated dimensional cutting and none of the Vergil's attack has been stated in that way.

Well, it doesn't look like they they're getting one-shotted there but ofc its in-game. Yamato could pierce Layfon's standard forcefield but i doubt it could cut the Heaven's Blade as it's a weapon created by a reality warper and made it completely indestructible.

Can you explain this indestructiblity and reality warper more?

This tells me nothing other than it's a powerful sealing weapon against demons. Any feats of it?

Lore wise stronger than Yamato and also it didn't just sealed the demon but the entire world which is the half of the universe

I think it's higher than that considering Layfon crossed from Zuellni to Myath in a blink of an eye and the distance between them r at least a few km.

Base hypersonic is Mach 5 which is 1700 meters per second

his speed at that point was probably M5-7

What feats put him at 100.000 tons? I rly hope ur not talking about him blocking Savior's punch and shoved it aside cuz pretty much every average Heaven's blader can achieve the same feat.

Yeah I am talking about that feat and its size shows(I can post a few calcs about it if you want)

Reasons why i believe he have FTL movements in short burst is because

• He kept up with Lævateinn and actually fought her in his maximal kei state and that's w/o Heaven's blade, even managed to blitz her at the end.

• Easily speedblitzed Lævateinn's thorn atks and they are fast enough to catch an average Heaven's blader.

• He's faster than Kanaris who can cut a huge filth monster into billions of pieces in a second.( I'll search & post the quote later)

• He fought Durandal who travelled from the moon to the earth's surface in a second. It's most likely only travel speed but its atks was also insanely fast which Layfon could easily avoid.

• He's faster than Nina who can move so fast that the friction in the air created lightning.

• He's easily faster than Ruimei who outspeed light beams atks but they weren't stated to travel at light speed unfortunately.

Before I say anything about these can you show how fast does Heaven's Blade makes you

Alright, i believe i'll have to hunt down some quotes to prove my points so it might take a while until my next post.

Then I will wait for them

i've noticed that there's always a delay when Dante's dimension cuts and that's something Layfon can easily exploit. There's also the fact that Dante can only use one weapon at a time so no Alastor lightning speed here if he decide to use Yamato or any other weapon.

Well changing weapons are game mechanics since till DMC3 player needed to pause and change but after that Dante can easily change between them during Dante performing different combos with them

@colliderz This is smt I forgot to say but how good is Layfon's pain tolerance since Dante is a swordmaster it will matter more than his durability

Well, Layfon rarely gets hurt cuz he specialize in dodging,intercepting & countering atks with his external burst. The thing is that Layfon's durability itself is only building lvl + but by kei amping, he can potentionally tank continent lvl blast. He have also Kei shields(autoshield kinda like Green lantern) & several defensive techniques. I guess i should mention that he also have a low-mid lvl healing factor but we haven't seen much of it since he rarely gets tagged.

Here's Layfon teaching Nina one of his many defensive techniques.

Wind Barrier

Here Dante first punched by Abigail gets his torso ripped off and then his body gets impaled by 6-7 of Abigail's claws, lauhs off in response

Layfon will have a hard time trying to actually hurt Dante

That wasn't very impressive at all. Even a normal military student is capable of delivering the same dmg to Dante there.

How will Layfon have a hard time hurting him exactly?

I've actually stated that Layfon got some moves that is capable of one-shooting Dante but u seem to ignore them for some reason or just forgot to adress them. Like i've said b4, Layfon fights beings with high lvl regeneration on a regular basis & have developed techniques just for them.

Here's how fast a filth monster can regenerate and that's not even a fully matured version.

I'll just list some of Layfon's one-shot techs again.

Shou Kei - celluar destruction

Here's a 10-years old Layfon using Shou kei so u can only imagine what Layfon at 18 could do.

Gajiya - a cutting move

Hamonu - Dmg internal cells.

Bakushikou - Blew a huge hole in the filth monster's abdomen.

Roar Kei - Vibration that destroys matters at a molecular lvl.

External Kei - Rumbling sword. Blew a huge hole on Durindana and it was described to be as big as ten cities. A Regios city have around 30 km radius so with other words, Rumbling sword should at least have 100 km AoE.

Heaven's Blade technique - Kasumirou. This is the technique that would definitely put down Dante for good or mess him up very bad. Layfon could send in Kei into Dante and it turns into numerous strikes which atks from inside.

Then we have this technique

Layfon releases his Kei and completely annihilates the city-sized monster

Of course reacting to smt that you don't know is a better feat but reacting to smt LS while knowing the location counts as LS reflex too

The thing is that we don't know weather Mundus laser atk travels at the speed of light there. Otherwise, i could also claim that Layfon's laser beam atks r light speed.

He doesn't shows direct speed feats except that one but he shows a large amount of improvement in general between DMC1 and 2 as he beat Mundus after a good much in DMC1 and after that he faced against Abigail and Argosax the Chaos who were stated to be on par with Mundus himself multiple times and Dante beat them with relative ease

Also not a very clear one but about speed directly as Dante was too fast for Argosax at the end and he couldn't see where he was compared to Mundus

Which doesn't rly mean anything. How fast is Argosax exactly and what is his reaction speed? etc

Can you explain this indestructiblity and reality warper more?

The reality warper is called Saya. She's the mother of all Electronic spirit & each one is capable of city bust to continent bust.

Her story is actually told in the Legios of Crusaders which is in another book but it's not translated yet so i'm just going by what's known in the Regios book. Pretty much that she gained the reality powers by going throught the Zero Domain & created twelve indestructible Heaven's blades to maintain order.

Lore wise stronger than Yamato and also it didn't just sealed the demon but the entire world which is the half of the universe

So is there any feats of it?

Base hypersonic is Mach 5 which is 1700 meters per second

his speed at that point was probably M5-7

Y, i guess it's somewhere around there but the Whirl Kei is just a basic speed technique which every military artist can do with some effort. Layfon's highly advanced speed technique r the Fleeting shadow & Water mirror like i mentioned.

Yeah I am talking about that feat and its size shows(I can post a few calcs about it if you want)

Calcs is often unreliable but pls do. It doesn't rly matter though since striking force is the thing that's important here & Layfon is easily the superior one as he have exchanged blows with beings who can destroy cities from just the shockwave of their punch.

Also, u forgot to say how exactly does Dante's strenght prevents him from getting blown away by Snake Fall?

Well changing weapons are game mechanics since till DMC3 player needed to pause and change but after that Dante can easily change between them during Dante performing different combos with them

Okay but that doesn't change the fact that he can only use one weapon at a time.

Now, let's get on to Layfon's FTL speeds

First, here we have Kanaris doing some celluar scale cutting

Cuts the enemy into 100 billion pieces

And Layfon is superior than Kanaris in every way, speed,power,skill etc.

Layfon also have a techniques similiar to Kanaris tech.

Destroys countless of scales b4 him in a flash.

Layfon & Savaris fight each other in an aerial battle & Felli, a sensor Psychokinesis couldn't discern the situation

Anyways, like i've stated several times, Layfon is more versatile,powerful,faster,skilled & far more tactical superior than Dante as Layfon can come up with several strategies at once just like he did against his fight with Savaris.

There's also a number of techniques that would help Layfon disorient his enemy & create openings.

Just to name a few

• 1000 man attack - Create 20-30 clones to distract the enemy
• Kei enchanched steel threads that can atk from long rng from mulitple directions
• Wind techniques like Snake Fall etc

Alright, i believe i've said most of the things i wanted to say and i've to travel somewhere soon so i'm rdy to open 4 vote if u are after ur post.

@theorder14:

Well, Layfon rarely gets hurt cuz he specialize in dodging,intercepting & countering atks with his external burst. The thing is that Layfon's durability itself is only building lvl + but by kei amping, he can potentionally tank continent lvl blast. He have also Kei shields(autoshield kinda like Green lantern) & several defensive techniques. I guess i should mention that he also have a low-mid lvl healing factor but we haven't seen much of it since he rarely gets tagged.

Layfon might have a notable durability against destructive force but that doesn't means he has a endurance on the same level against blunt damage.

Here's Layfon teaching Nina one of his many defensive techniques.

That doesn't sound bad but can it hold back Yamato or Sparda

Wind Barrier

Holding off a fireball doesn't looks impressive and it doesn't looks impressive also Dante has fought against wind manipulators

That wasn't very impressive at all. Even a normal military student is capable of delivering the same dmg to Dante there.

How will Layfon have a hard time hurting him exactly?

Layfon can slash him cut him but Dante will laugh also which part of getting impailed in nearly every part of your body is not impressive?

I've actually stated that Layfon got some moves that is capable of one-shooting Dante but u seem to ignore them for some reason or just forgot to adress them. Like i've said b4, Layfon fights beings with high lvl regeneration on a regular basis & have developed techniques just for them.

Here's how fast a filth monster can regenerate and that's not even a fully matured version.

Regeneration is not the same with pain tolerance

For those moves you posted you might be right with some of them but Dante can easily block them with Savior also he can also one shot him with Yamato or Saprda

Also, u forgot to say how exactly does Dante's strenght prevents him from getting blown away by Snake Fall?

Even if he gets blown away I doubt it will do much of a damage

The reality warper is called Saya. She's the mother of all Electronic spirit & each one is capable of city bust to continent bust.

How good are they reality warping, Dante was able to seal Mundus who was able to create a pocket dimension with ease.

So is there any feats of it?

I posted the images before but here

Gallery

It says Sparda sealed the demonic universe and tells the size of the demon world

Also in one ofthe description I showed stated that Sparda's power is in Force Edge not even talking about Dante is stronger than him

Calcs is often unreliable but pls do. It doesn't rly matter though since striking force is the thing that's important here & Layfon is easily the superior one as he have exchanged blows with beings who can destroy cities from just the shockwave of their punch.

Dante was less than the middle finger's intermediate phalanx of the savior's hand. regular humans are about 70 times the size of their middle phalanx. So, let's also say that Dante is about 6' (feet).

6 (feet) X (times) 70 = 420 (feet)

To find the weight, we can look at the Empire state building. It's height is 1,250' (feet). It weighs 355,000 tons.

355,000 (tons) / (divided by) 1,250 (feet) = 284 (is the multiplier we will use)

284 X (times) 420 (feet) = 119,280 (tons)

The Savior weighs about 119,280 tons, more or less, which Dante was easily able to lift up.

(I am borrowing this clac from 106me so all credit goes to him)

Layfon also have a techniques similiar to Kanaris tech.

Unless you can show the speed of it thats only impressive as a skill

Destroys countless of scales b4 him in a flash.

Does that flash has stated speed

Why Dante wins this battle

• He has the pain tolerancce and endurance as his advantage
• Most of Layfon's attacks can be stopped by Dante's Royal Guard and can be backfired at him
• Dante's Sparda and Yamato has better showings then Layfon's HB

You can open it up for votes

@colliderz Feel free to tag ppl who might be willing to vote

@neongamewave@princearagorn1@deathhero61@thatguywithheadphones@dratini1331@smxlr8@funsiized@kidman560@nyas

Vote if u have the time & also state the reason why u think who won.

@theorder14: My vote goes to you. like usual @colliderz overexaggerated dante's skills and abilities and definitely overexaggerated how fast he is. He had literally no legit counter for half the things you said in terms of superiority. And you proved that your character was superior in every single possible way. The savior punch feat is negated due to a majority of its force being reduced due to nero handling the job on the inside, taking out savior. Savior was knocked out before his punch even reached dante. So however much it would be weighed would be reduced. Plus savior is hollow from what i can tell. Even then is there even any consistency leading up to that feat? Heck even then he ignored that layfon could easily do the same thing(ironically i showed him that the character i was representing, Negi could do the same thing while not trying with ONE hand in our debate.) There is too much inconsistency in DMC for a majority of the feats to be taking into consideration. BTW in his fight against blitz that he showed everyone look at the video again, you could clearly see blitz charging his blasts. Thats more than enough time to block the lightning bolts.

Another thing not taken into consideration is that dante barely has any durability feats that say he won't get ripped in half by a single strike which would probably efficiently take him out of the battle. His striking strength is just barely impressive in comparison to what i seen layfon do in this debate, and one more thing. The weapons descriptions are hyperbole. Alastor is as fast as lightning right? When we see dante showing it off in the video all we see is him swing around the sword while the glass is slowly falling down. Thats a supersonic feat not a hypersonic feat so it being lightning must be a load of BS. Especially considering thats its main feature. We can find another weapon that has lightning speed kicks in the description which makes no sense since there is a weapon like alastor already plus it says launchs 100s of lightning-like kicks. That can easily be achieved at supersonic speed. Fast as lightning is usually described as someone who is so fast that it can barely be traced. This is sometimes applied to people like Bruce Lee. So its stupid to take those quotes from the developers seriously especially considering one of the weapons can produce "a small supernova" by punching the ground. Which makes no sense since dante would get killed by said heat.

The problem with dante is something that a good old friend @nickzambuto once told me. Dante with his other weapons is pretty much featless. So the only weapons that should be considered is his standards which is his guns and his sword. We don't see enough cutscenes with dante's other abilities to truly know their limits. And BTW no gameplay is not always a depowered version of a game character. Sometimes its there to perfectly represent a game character. Like zelda and link or someone like Point Man or Fetell from the F.E.A.R series. Or more specifically people like Megaman or Kirby. Characters who don't have cutscenes much in their games. Or cutscenes that represent their abilities.

@theorder14 gets my vote for fair representation and not using inconsistencies and speculation in representing his character.

By the way who is that girl in the gif and your profile from? What anime?

@eziorenzo@unknowzillagod@usernameunderconstruction@hollow_point

@colliderz my vote goes to you.dante would be hard to hit by layfon even if he will connect(most likely he will)dante could block it with royal guard or if royal guard fails dante's regeneration would be a trouble for layfon.
from what i have seen dante is faster and arguably around same league in strength with layfon,has better weapons.

@deathhero61: Thanks for ur vote & deep insight.

She's the master detective Tensai Ikkyuu from the anime Ryuugajou Nanana no Maizoukin

@theorder14: I just watched the intro and the opening song and it seems interesting.

@theorder14 gets my vote. Despite the fact that colliderz did a good job representing Dante, Layfon's abilities just sound like a bad match-up for Dante's (especially those thread blades).

Dante no doubt can't believe people think he loses.

I'm not part of this debate, but I just want to point out that the Savior feat is completely legit. His punch was already in motion by the time Nero took him out, being made of a stone-like substance would mean that his punch wouldn't go slack, so it still had all the force of a regular punch. This is basic physics.

@colliderz gets my vote. The reason why is that although both sides in general did a admirable and enjoyable job in advocating for their respective characters, I think colliderz provided the necessary feats to showcase why Dante would be the ultimate winner of this battle the areas in which both debaters exceeded the other would be that @theorder14 had the better format and his points may have had more potency to them but I didn`t feel convinced on most of his points and I was interested in the forwardness of his counters, however it wasn`t enough to prove why Layfon is actually superior to Dante, @colliderz on the other hand did not only prove and sold me on the fact that Dante is much more powerful than Layfon but also in the correction of @theorder14 `s arguments he prevailed, but once again I have to congratulate the both of you for making this debate such a fun read :)

@neongamewave: Thanks 4 ur input.

@usernameunderconstruction thanks for voting but i'll have ask to which speed feat in particular u saw that puts Dante above Layfon?

@unknowzillagod I'm afraid i'll have to count this vote as invalid. Ur voting for the one who u think represented their character best & why. + I highly doubt u even read the debate.

Bump

@colliderz So first to 5 or 10?

@ssj_god@dccomicsrule2011@homicidalmaniac@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk@nightwingx@nickzambuto@omgomgwtfwtf@dbvse7

Vote only if u got the time & also give reasons why u think me or my opponent won.

@neongamewave@usernameunderconstruction Thanks for the votes

@theorder14 It tooks too long for 10 votes lets say 5

My vote goes to Dante, good debating from both

@kingant27: u will have to elaborate much more than that if u want us to count ur vote.

@colliderz: My vote goes to you. although theorder14 showed layfon had a speed advantage, but you showed me dante had the power and endurence (for most of layfons attacks, but not necessarily all of them) to put layton down. great debate guys

@hollow_point: @nightwingx: Thanks for voting but maybe u guys could elaborate a bit more?

@theorder14: Sure. you showed that layfon has a small advantage over dante travel speed and an overall better reaction speed than dante (although, according to theory, the devil trigger would put dante above layfon completely, but whatever), but colliderz showed multiple cases of dantes insane durability and pain endurance. one of the best attacks you showed was the roar kei, and i didnt see you cast enough proof against the royal guard to say it would affect him even while using it. i also didnt see you cast enough doubt over yamato to completely discredit it, so theres another powerful weapon in dantes arsenal

@hollow_point: point taken

i didn't see any durability feats though & he didn't mention anything about royal guard after i mentioned the ways Layfon could counter it so i let it be but nvm. Ain't gonna debate here

@theorder14: well, i guess your right about the durability. i guess its more of a combination of pain endurance and some degree of something else (invulnerability?).

What im saying is that you didnt counter the royal guard well enough (you did pretty well though, its just the royal guard is just op)

@hollow_point: yup, when it comes to in-game mechanics but i've always wondered how much Royal guard rly can take. Maybe i should've mentioned it but would it be able to tank continent to planet busting atks?

good question

@hollow_point: Well, cus that's what Layfon is capable of at full power but not in-character to do so except 4 continent busting.

@colliderz Btw, quite sneaky of u. I just realized i actually recognized some of those users u tagged in recent threads and they're all dmc fans. Not that there's anything wrong with it as long as they give valid reasons & read the debate. That's pretty much why i'm asking every1 to expand their answers just so ya know.

Ok yeah ill post my thoughts and Dante could win.

Dante at DMC3, which is the start of the DMC saga, can took all boss at only an hour

Dante could take down the Demon king for only 5 mins.

The infamous beam Savior using is only a joke for Dante.

DMC2 Dante could take down a reality warping demon at such an ease

Dante's Speed (DMC4).

Dante stomps this.

Colliderz got my votes

@eziorenzo: Okay, i think it is apparent that u didn't even read the debate. How does this even makes any sense.

U didn't write down ur thoughts at all. All i can see is u posting unimpressive feats compared to Layfon.

Fighting a reality warper? oh so have Layfon & u should know this if u read the debate & all the things u posted is something Layfon could replicate.

example for things he could do is,

moving at FTL in short burst.Cut faster than some1 who can cut 100 billions strike in an instant. molecular disruption, Continent lvl DC.ability to turn completely invisible & erase his presence. Precognition like instincts & FTL reaction something that Dante haven't proved to have. Kei threads that could get around Royal guard and cut Dante into pieces. Create 30 clones just like Naruto, turn his sword into a giant laser sword & many more techniques i'm pretty sure u aren't aware of. Saying he stomps is just pure bias and not a single enemy in DmC even comes close to Layfon's league in feats.

I've seen u around here in vine & realize ur a DmC fan & that's prob why @colliderz tagged u but i hoped that we could at least get an deeper insight of ur thoughts. For example like, @neongamewave. i know he's a huge DmC fan but i also know that he actually read the debate & can give his thoughts on both sides & that's why i tagged him.

Let me make this clear. This is CaV. Ur voting based on who represented their character best.

Ur not the one who's supposed to post feats & ur not the one i'm debating with.

@theorder1: 4: If voting still on,you have vote indeed

Vote for the Layton guys, God dante is weak.