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#1 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

Colliderz: Mewto

Veitha: Emma Frost.

Location: desert Utopia(Emma starts at the blue point, Mewtwo at the purple one).

Rules:

- No speedblitzing;

- Morals on, in character;

- Winning by KO, death or incapacitation.

#2 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by PapiNacho (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

Which Mewtwo: anime, manga or game?

#4 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@papinacho: I guess he is using anime/manga version

#5 Posted by PapiNacho (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: They are different thought.

#6 Posted by dondave (38885 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be good

#7 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: Sorry smt is wrong with my notifications didn't saw it.Anyway I will use manga/anime version (game version is featless)

I can start up if you don't want to go first

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#9 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz yeah, you can start(even my notifications aren't working btw)

#10 Edited by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha:

Mewtwo arguably and stated multiple times to be the strongest Pokemon of all was created from Mew's DNA.

Mewtwo is a Psychic type legendary Pokemon.

Speed

Okay now lets start with its speed.(which I would really like to talk about.)

07:00 Mewtwo while he was wearing Giovanni's depowering armor easily reacts to lightning.

http://anime.fullfights.org/dubbed/pokemon-the-movie-genesect-and-the-legend-awakened (Sorry latest movie is not on Youtube)

21:15

Mewtwo saves Ash & co in the last minute

41:10 - 42:00

Mewtwo and Genesect's speed.

13:00 Mewtwo(heavily wounded) disappears and blitzes a tyranitar.

16:05Mewtwo still heavily wounded blitzes a bunch of pokemon catching devices.

Durability

Mewtwo cathing a hyper beam with single hand (Also speed feat)

Mewtwo pierced by Deoxys uses recovery and continues fighting.

Destructive Power

4:50 Mewtwo just after his release destoys the lab and a part of the island.

Here is the explosion at its peak.

18:45 Mewtwo creates a heavy storm just by waving his hand.

20:05 Storms destructive power being stated.

52:55 Mewtwo's power destructive power again easily without going all out(mewtwo also teleported all pokemons and others underground at the same time)

Spoon

Using his physchic powers Mewtwo can create a giant spoon for close combat.

Slices a building with ease.

In my next post I will only talk about Mewtwo's psychic powers.

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#11 Edited by sheryinistoosexy (722 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz Didn't know Mewtwo was that powerful till now. Keep this going.

#12 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz nice opening :) I'm going to make a quick opening post, too.

Emma Frost is an Omega Level Telepath, former White Queen of the Hellfire Club and member of the X-Men. She currently has broken powers for being an host of the Phoenix Force, so now her telepathic powers aren't the same as before, but of course I'm using Emma with full telepathic powers and diamond form(even if I don't have in mind to use her diamond powers, I may give examples of them, too).

She is regarded as being one of the most skilled telepaths in the entire MU, and thanks to her superior skills she has been able to win against characters such as Rachel Grey(Omega Level Mutant, with incredible raw power, also been a Phoenix Host before it was cool and before everyone could get a piece of the Force) or a bunch of telepathic Skrulls that had the powers of other mutant telepaths(this includes Jean Grey, Charles Xavier and herself).

This battle is going to be a strictly telepathic battle. Emma Frost will bring Mewtwo to the astral plane and battle him using her telepathic skillset.

She is able to nullify other people's psionic abilities to make sure that they will only use telepathy in the battle.

She did this when she fought against Rachel Grey, fighting in the astral plane, and most notably Exodus, denying him from using his telekinetic or teleportation powers.

This is a pretty impressive feat since Exodus is also a very strong telepath and the best there is at multitasking.

Here he fights the Avengers and the X-Men while keeping a force field around Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Crystal and Jean Grey(strong telepath and telekinetic), and also crushes Genosha under a force field. In the last scans he uses his TK against Magneto while telepathically fighting Charles Xavier, one of the best if not the best telepath ever. Then Emma was able to keep him busy enough and to deny his TK(while also denying her diamond form), long enough to let Dust attack him without him noticing her.

Against Xavier

Against the Avengers

So brute strenght, speed and durability aren't really going to play a role in this battle, since Emma can cut him off from his other powers making him fight using only his telepathy. Then Emma is going to crush him using her superior telepathic feats and skills, on which I'm going to focus on the following posts.

Your turn :)

#13 Edited by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha:

Okay now before I continue my post you said it will be a telepathic battle on a astral plane but since Mewtwo is a psychic Pokemon its powers are all about physchic and can be used in a astral space.

As for the feat you showed Exodus and Emma barely clashed for brief second not mentioning that girl was already inside him.

Now let me show you Mewtwo's psychic powers.

Brain Washing

Mewtwo brain washed Nurse Joy in the first movie with its psychic powers(check out the full movie in my previous post)

Telepathy

Thought he didn't showed much and his upper levels are unknown he showed has some decent feats.

http://anime.fullfights.org/dubbed/pokemon-the-movie-genesect-and-the-legend-awakened

04:00 Mewtwo hears Genesect's voice from a far away distance via telepathy while being half unconscious.

2:10 Mewtwo communicating with other 4 clones via telepathy after his birth and even when scientists said it was unconscious.

05:40 Unwillingly Mewtwo kills all other 4 clones while being unconscious.

Telekinesis

7:20 Mewtwo floats a herd of Taurous while depowered.

1:07:00 Mewtwo levitates the other clones Pokemons with him and flies away.

17:00 Mewtwo uses Telekinesis while injured.

Psywave

Note:Unown are reality warpers.In the 3rd Movie a group of them was able to create legendary pokemons(Entei), alter ones age and stuff.

Reality Warping

Yep Mewtwo is reality warper.

(Check out Pokemon First Movie that I posted above)

1:08:00

New Island before and after Mewtwo's reality warping

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#14 Edited by NeonGameWave (8982 posts) - - Show Bio

This debate is really cool :)

#15 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz those weren't just mere seconds. There's a gap between the first scan I posted and the second one, you can also notice that Emma said in the first scan to keep the students away from the fight, and Dust is one of the students, so she silently attacked Exodus only at the end of his battle against Emma, that lasted at least more than three minutes(and telepathic battles or telepathy itself usually act at subliminal speed, so also in mere seconds Emma could do a lot of things).

Example of subliminal speed: The Stepford Cuckoos were able to extract Cyclops and Blindfold from a battle by putting them in a telepathic projection on the astral plane.Time doesn't matter with telepaths)

That is also an hell of a feat considering who Exodus is. I forgot to mention the time in which he fought against the JGS staff while telepathically battling Rachel Grey, who has got more raw power than Emma, but a lot less skills.

So if Emma wants to engage Mewtwo in a telepathic battle, he will have to fight her back before he can do anything else as using other powers.

Emma Frost has got some high showing when it comes to telepathy, of course. She has managed to beat Charles Xavier(three times, one out of panel, the other with prep and the third one blocking is powers on panel), who is considered one of the most powerful telepaths who ever lived on Earth.

She was even able to defeat a bunch of telepathic Skrulls who were blocking telepathic comunication worldwide. Her mind was fine, but her body had to be guarded and healed by the Cuckoos. But we're talking about Skrulls who had Jean Grey's powers, Charles Xaviers' powers and even her powers, other than another bunch of earthling psichics. An example of these Skrulls:

Yet she was able to beat them:

She has even defeated Rachel Grey as I've already said, an Omega Level Mutant, with better telepathic and telekinetics showings thant Mewtwo:

Sorry, the battle is a bit long lol

So, when it comes to telepathic fights Emma is a monster. She can mix her great power(she is one of the five most powerful telepaths on Earth) with her great skills and intelligence.

As soon as the battle starts, Emma will telepathically attack Mewtwo and cut him off from his other powers, and then with a few of her tricks or a telepathic bolt she will defeat him.

#16 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz I forgot to underline the fact that these feats you posted are good but nothing compared to Emma's telepathic feats or Rachel and Exodus's telekinetic feats(I'm gonna provide scans later for Emma's feats, I'm not at home now, sorry).

And how long did it take to him to change the island? And has he ever used it to accomplish offensive feats?

#17 Posted by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: First of all there are some few feats I forgot to show for Mewtwo.

55:50 Mewtwo teleporting entire Team Rocket Army back to their HQ with ereasig their minds with ease in seconds.

06:55 Mewtwo(depowered) beats Alakazam in a psychic battle with ease in seconds.(Alakazam is psychic with an IQ of over 5000).

As soon as the battle starts, Emma will telepathically attack Mewtwo and cut him off from his other powers, and then with a few of her tricks or a telepathic bolt she will defeat him.

All of the feats that I showed was demostradted by Mewtwo's psychic attack Emma can't cut them off.

And how long did it take to him to change the island? And has he ever used it to accomplish offensive feats?

Seconds and he didn't used it as a offensive feat since it was never forced to go all out and in entire Pokemon universe who are capable of giving Mewtwo a good battle are top tier legendaries like Arceus, Ho-oh or Rayquaza.

For the battle Emma might have the better telepathic power and will be able to beat Mewtwo in a telepathic battle but not enough to overwellm and defeat Mewtwo in seconds.

While holding back Emma's telepathy he can easily kill her with a single attack

Mewtwo is great at multitasking;

While Reality Warping the New Island it also teleported everyone back with ereasing their minds and used telekinesis on the clone Pokemons to fly away from there.

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#18 Posted by OreoAssassin (6206 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome! Definetly a unique CaV

#19 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz

All of the feats that I showed was demostradted by Mewtwo's psychic attack Emma can't cut them off.

How? She did cut off Exodus's powers, and he is a much stronger telepath than Mewtwo, being in par with Charles Xavier. He also has some great telekinetic and teleporting feats and is the king of multitasking.

If Emma engages Mewtwo in a telepathic battle, he won't be able to use even one of the feats you showed. She will just keep him to busy defending his mind to try to teleport, attack her or use telekinesis.

Speaking of which, she has shown that she can deflect telekinetic attacks, anyway. And she's done it against pretty strong telekinetic users(A Phoenix possessed Quentin Quire). Not that she will need to protect herself from TK, but this is another point backing up her skill at blocking psionic attacks.

Quire is also very smart(probably more than Alakazam, since he is said to process "thousands of brilliant thoughts every second", and yet she stopped his amped telekinesis, and also managed to mess with his brain during Schism).

For the battle Emma might have the better telepathic power and will be able to beat Mewtwo in a telepathic battle but not enough to overwellm and defeat Mewtwo in seconds.

Yes, she can defeat him with telepathy, and he won't be able to react since she is just the superior telepath. I've already shown her beating up Xavier, Skrulls with the most powerful telepathic powers one could get and Rachel Grey, all very strong telepaths, while Mewtwo's telepathic powers are usually used against people with little to no telepathic training or power.

Everything Mewtwo did - telepathically - Emma did the same herself and did it better.

Crowd controll? Done, hundreds of people at a time with no effort.

Erasing memory? She erased the memory of an entire city.

She could use her superior skills and power to shut him down after some seconds of telepathic battle.

Then she has her "unusual" telepathic attacks. Illusions, psi-bolts and psionic surgery that may play a role.

She could, for example, put Mewtwo inside an illusion so that he may think that he has already won the battle against him, while Emma is still standing in front of him, letting her definitely KO him using a psi bolt.

She did this to Sebastian Shaw, her former lover. Emma herself had taught Sebastian tecniques to keep a telepath out of his mind, so that she couldn't attack him directly. But aniway, illusions did work against him unlike other kinds of telepathic intrusions. So she is quite good at using them, and she could put some illusions inside Mewtwo's mind while fighting against him to take time wheter she will need some.

Emma was actually standing in front of him with her head perfectly attached to her neck

Her illusions also have some phisical effects. She made Colossus bleed while he fought that he was fighting Sebastian Shaw, but instead her was punching the air.

This can give her time to shut off his brain or to devastate his mind using a psi bolt(a "psionic lighting" created by focusing the environmental psionic energy, able to shut off telepaths such as Monet St.Croix):

Also notice that she had put Husk(the blonde one) into an illusion that prevented her from using her powers

#20 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Edited by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

How? She did cut off Exodus's powers, and he is a much stronger telepath than Mewtwo, being in par with Charles Xavier. He also has some great telekinetic and teleporting feats and is the king of multitasking.

Can Emma cut off psychic attacks?Exodus' teleportation and other powers are mutant powers not psychic and all off the destruction feats and others were due to its Mewtwo's psychic powers.

If Emma engages Mewtwo in a telepathic battle, he won't be able to use even one of the feats you showed. She will just keep him to busy defending his mind to try to teleport, attack her or use telekinesis.

Mewtwo won't try to teleport away it will realize Emma being the better telepath and it will use a offensive attack to one shot her.As I showed Mewtwo can use numerous powers at the same time.

She could, for example, put Mewtwo inside an illusion so that he may think that he has already won the battle against him, while Emma is still standing in front of him, letting her definitely KO him using a psi bolt.

Mewtwo can sense other people's location's via its psychic powers

Also it was abel too see through 3D Images.

For that psi bolt you showed Mewtwo's psychic attacks are similiar to it but the difference is they are around island busting scale.

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#22 Posted by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by those_eyes (8024 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: my god you are doing me proud. Keep it up!

#24 Edited by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

ò@colliderz sorry but I don't get notifications.

Can Emma cut off psychic attacks?Exodus' teleportation and other powers are mutant powers not psychic and all off the destruction feats and others were due to its Mewtwo's psychic powers.

I don't get this. She doesn't manipulate mutations, she manipulated minds. Teleportation and telekinesis are psychic powers as much as telepathy. She stopped them because they were psionic powers and she was able to cut them off. If Exodus, for example, had super dense tissues or feral powers, she couldn't have stopped them. As long as a power is trigged psionically she can stop it or manipulate it.

She prevented Scott Summers from using his powers as soon as she discovered that they were psionically triggered. She did the same to a Krakoa clone (a shapeshifter).

Essentially the point is: if Emma attacks Mewtwo telepathically, and this will be the first thing she will do, he won't be able to multitask since he will have to focus on the telepathic battle to keep her out of his mind.

Mewtwo won't try to teleport away it will realize Emma being the better telepath and it will use a offensive attack to one shot her.As I showed Mewtwo can use numerous powers at the same time.

He can use numerous powers at the same time against people with little to no telepathic powers, compared to Emma. If he gets telepathically attacked by a stronger telepath he won't be able to use other powers unless he wants his brain melted.

A telepathic battle doesn't require a lot of time, the first who struggles to keep the other out of his mind is KOed. And Mewtwo will of course fail against Emma Frost.

Mewtwo can sense other people's location's via its psychic powers

Also it was abel too see through 3D Images.

Again, it isn't that impressive since he's not dealing with telepaths nor great amounts of people(3D images are nothing compared to complex illusion that affect the mind and the physical body). Emma's tricks affected hundreds of people and her powers can affect other strong telepaths, other than working at enormous distances with no problem.

Telepathy and mind controll at continental distance
She was able to fight against Mister Sinister(very, very strong telepath) while comfortably sitting at the Xavier Mansion, without using Cerebra to amp her powers

For that psi bolt you showed Mewtwo's psychic attacks are similiar to it but the difference is they are around island busting scale.

Size doesn't always matter. Emma's psibolts are strong enough to pierce the minds of people with strong telepathic resistance such as Wolverine, Monet(that I've already showed) or Storm(her mind couldn't be read or entered by Jean Grey or Charles Xavier, yet Emma's psibolts worked).

Speaking of Wolverine, he's got great telepathic resistance and he's even said that he's got psi-shields created by Charles Xavier in his mind and Emma argued that she could pierce them, which she actually did more than once.

She turned him into a child

Her psibolts(which, as that scan said, are focused rays of psionic energy) are so strong that more than once have showed the effect of actually affecting the physical body of the ones she attacked. For example, she was able to psionically disintegrate the Phalanx.

To sum up, she will attack Mewtwo telepathically, make him focus all of his powers into his telepathy to protect himself from her telepathy and then she will crush his brain. Mewtwo won't have time to use other abilities such as telekinesis since if he does, his mind defenses will have already crumbled and Emma will have already won.

#26 Edited by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get this. She doesn't manipulate mutations, she manipulated minds. Teleportation and telekinesis are psychic powers as much as telepathy. She stopped them because they were psionic powers and she was able to cut them off. If Exodus, for example, had super dense tissues or feral powers, she couldn't have stopped them. As long as a power is trigged psionically she can stop it or manipulate it.

You get me wrong Mewtwo's powers are not just triggered by its mind they are the manipulation of its brain waves just like Emma's psi.Only thing Emma can shut off are elemental based attacks of Mewtwo like Thunderbolt, Ice beam and Flamethrower which are non factor compared to its psychic attacks (Mewtwo can use all of the offensive Pokemon moves excluding Draco Meteor and a few others)

Essentially the point is: if Emma attacks Mewtwo telepathically, and this will be the first thing she will do

Can you give me some reaction feats for Emma' telepathy.Mewtwo might create its attacks before her reaction.

he won't be able to multitask since he will have to focus on the telepathic battle to keep her out of his mind.

It was able to use its telepathy while reality warping New Island I am pretty sure it can create a small blast enough to take out Emma while hold off her telepathy.

He can use numerous powers at the same time against people with little to no telepathic powers, compared to Emma. If he gets telepathically attacked by a stronger telepath he won't be able to use other powers unless he wants his brain melted.

You are yet to show me any feats that shows Emma can take down Mewtwo in seconds also creating a spoon to cut Emma in half should be enough.

A telepathic battle doesn't require a lot of time

So does Mewtwo's attacks

Again, it isn't that impressive since he's not dealing with telepaths nor great amounts of people(3D images are nothing compared to complex illusion that affect the mind and the physical body). Emma's tricks affected hundreds of people and her powers can affect other strong telepaths, other than working at enormous distances with no problem.

Did she ever used illusions against telepaths and sensing other people's location can over come illusions easily.

Mewtwo can also use Shadow ball to take down Emma faster.

Shadow Ball is one of the fastest moves Mewtwo

Also its very effective against psychics

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#27 Posted by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Edited by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz last reply for me, ok? Then I think that we can start voting(we wrote the same number of replies this way).

You get me wrong Mewtwo's powers are not just triggered by its mind they are the manipulation of its brain waves just like Emma's psi.Only thing Emma can shut off are elemental based attacks of Mewtwo like Thunderbolt, Ice beam and Flamethrower which are non factor compared to its psychic attacks (Mewtwo can use all of the offensive Pokemon moves excluding Draco Meteor and a few others)

You are yet to show me any feats that shows Emma can take down Mewtwo in seconds also creating a spoon to cut Emma in half should be enough.

This makes no sense. A psionic ability is a psionic ability, and Emma has shown that she can shut it down or cut it off when facing another telepath.

I showed feats of her battling Exodus who is a team buster and the king of multitasking, and yet he couldn't do anything other than battling her telepathically(he is a better than telepath than Mewtwo, being in par with Charles Xavier); she even did beat Rachel Grey(Omege level mutant, ex host of the Phoenix Force, molecular telekinesis, better telepath than Mewtwo) by bringing her in the astral plane where she couldn't use her other powers, just her telepathic powers; she stopped a Phoenix possessed Quentin Quire's telekinesis with ease(he is very, very fast, since he can process thousands of brilliant thoughts every second, quoting Emma).

She can and she will stop Mewtwo's powers, I showed it. Speed won't matter since they start in front of each other, it's not like he will be able to catch her by surprise. Emma will attack him telepathically(she just need a thought) and he will have to use all of his powers to protect himself. A single psibolts is enough to break all of his mental defenses.

Did she ever used illusions against telepaths and sensing other people's location can over come illusions easily.

Yes, against Monet St.Croix. And he was able to locate people with litterally no telepathic ability(sense other people's location is something that even the less skilled telepath can do), not a woman who can create sofisticate illusions.

Mewtwo's powers don't require a lot of time, but if he even tries to use them instead of he will find his mind telepathically stabbed in every single direction and his brain will drip out of his ears.

Mewtwo has never faced a telepath on her level, telepathically speaking he is a newbie. He never had to battle someone with Emma's skills and power telepathically, he just messed with people that couldn't defend themselves from his powers.

I'm done. If you agree, we can open votes, I think.

#29 Posted by colliderz (2820 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha:

This makes no sense. A psionic ability is a psionic ability, and Emma has shown that she can shut it down or cut it off when facing another telepath.

As I said before Mewtwo's psychic powers are manipulation of its brain waves not just some mutation which was the case with Exodus and Cyclops.

Yes, against Monet St.Croix. And he was able to locate people with litterally no telepathic ability(sense other people's location is something that even the less skilled telepath can do), not a woman who can create sofisticate illusions.

Emma explained the situation before she can understand it and she was rushing without thinking.

Mewtwo has never faced a telepath on her level, telepathically speaking he is a newbie.

Unknowingly killing and ereasing 4 people's body out of existence right after its birth is newbie feat.

In the end Emma might have the edge in telepathy but can't match with Mewtwo's vast arsenal of other psychic powers.

You can open it for votes

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#30 Posted by Kingant27 (7570 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Juiceboks (10645 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha takes this soundly. Main reason though is because @colliderz attempt to dismiss the argument that Emma could shut down Mewtwo's other powers was..no offense..piss poor and nonsensical. You went from asserting the notion that Emma can only affect mutants(seriously how did you come about this?) to saying that his brain waves would make his psionic powers immune to being shut down. After Veitha convincingly proved that Emma would be able to force a tp battle, all of Mewtwo's non-tp feats became moot and all that was needed was a couple instances to show why Emma is the superior telepath of the two.

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#33 Posted by kidman560 (7578 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: you forgot to post Emmas battle against X-man which in my opinion awards her enormous respect. im going to need more time to read this over but right now from what was presented to me im leaning towards Emma. nothing is for sure though

#35 Posted by highaccuser (8427 posts) - - Show Bio

This is probably the most unique CAV I've seen. Well done on both sides.

@veitha gets my vote. You definently showcased Emma's psychic skill and power as well beyond what Mewtwo has done. It would've helped if you brought up diamond forms durability.

#36 Posted by theONEtaichou (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: you get my vote mate.

good day

@veitha takes this soundly. Main reason though is because @colliderz attempt to dismiss the argument that Emma could shut down Mewtwo's other powers was..no offense..piss poor and nonsensical. You went from asserting the notion that Emma can only affect mutants(seriously how did you come about this?) to saying that his brain waves would make his psionic powers immune to being shut down. After Veitha convincingly proved that Emma would be able to force a tp battle, all of Mewtwo's non-tp feats became moot and all that was needed was a couple instances to show why Emma is the superior telepath of the two.

...I think it was enough...he didn't merely attempt but he questioned it thoroughly imho. You are asking for special pleading for Emma... Veitha should have stressed and driven that point home. But he didn't, you cannot penalise the other guy for not going to extra lengths to defeat an argument that the opponent seemingly assertedly half-heartedly.

And Veitha failed to account for the fact that a weak Mewtwo beat a 5000 IQ'd psychic pokemon and has multitasked using various powers at the same time including psychic as shown by Colliderz. Not forgetting the reaction feats for Emma that were asked for. You need to look at both debators not merely the character you think would win.

And debating wise Colliderz won it.

good day

#37 Posted by HigorM (4226 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @veitha in this one. More convincing arguments.

#38 Posted by kidman560 (7578 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: @colliderz: first off good job guys and Mewtwo was very impressive but ive seen him debated better. i have to give it to @veitha here

#39 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4993 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha gets a vote. He supported his position better.

#40 Edited by Juiceboks (10645 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou said:

@colliderz: you get my vote mate.

good day

@juiceboks said:

@veitha takes this soundly. Main reason though is because @colliderz attempt to dismiss the argument that Emma could shut down Mewtwo's other powers was..no offense..piss poor and nonsensical. You went from asserting the notion that Emma can only affect mutants(seriously how did you come about this?) to saying that his brain waves would make his psionic powers immune to being shut down. After Veitha convincingly proved that Emma would be able to force a tp battle, all of Mewtwo's non-tp feats became moot and all that was needed was a couple instances to show why Emma is the superior telepath of the two.

...I think it was enough...he didn't merely attempt but he questioned it thoroughly imho. You are asking for special pleading for Emma... Veitha should have stressed and driven that point home. But he didn't, you cannot penalise the other guy for not going to extra lengths to defeat an argument that the opponent seemingly assertedly half-heartedly.

And Veitha failed to account for the fact that a weak Mewtwo beat a 5000 IQ'd psychic pokemon and has multitasked using various powers at the same time including psychic as shown by Colliderz. Not forgetting the reaction feats for Emma that were asked for. You need to look at both debators not merely the character you think would win.

And debating wise Colliderz won it.

good day

That's nice. I don't but you're entitled to think so. His reasoning was half-baked IMO and wasn't convincing in the slightest. I'm not asking for anything..Veitha brought forth a pertinent point that colliderz failed to convince me wouldn't work despite addressing it twice. And no..it wasn't half-heartedly brought up by Veitha as it was supported by several instances and was one of the focal points of her entire argument the way I saw it.

colliderz failed to show why that's even relevant by making a blanket statement with no evidence of Alakazam's psychic powers to compare. Being smarter doesn't make you any more powerful of a psychic. Colliderz could have won if he pushed the point of the possibility that Mewtwo could attack before Emma could react..but he didn't. And Veitha's reasoning as to why speed wouldn't matter is something I saw as reasonable.

Clearly I did..else I wouldn't have written out that and this analysis of arguments made by both parties. They're just not in line with what you think. But apparently they are with everyone else so..eh.

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#41 Posted by TheQuestingBeast (46 posts) - - Show Bio

mewtwo should have his way with her

#42 Posted by randomcharachter (333 posts) - - Show Bio

@colliderz: Wow clearly one of the best CAV I have ever seen.

I am going with colliderz.

I liked his argument about finishing of Emma but veitha was also really convincing

#43 Posted by highaccuser (8427 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by those_eyes (8024 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by DeathHero61 (7112 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Edited by Potato (493 posts) - - Show Bio

I might be the only one here but all I did was look at the pictures.

#47 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10826 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote is for @Veitha.

Good debate overall. I have new respect for Mewtwo. I think Veitha's argumemts were stronger and more compelling. Emma's telepathic power and skill would secure a win the majority of the time.

#48 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by Army2442 (1848 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to give it to Veitha, good debate tho. Its cool to someone reping Pokemon these days though.

#50 Posted by those_eyes (8024 posts) - - Show Bio