Cav Blue Beetle (Gizmorino) VS Nova Sam (HeirToTheKingdom)

@heirtothekingdom: so which is getting locked?

@heirtothekingdom: well o.k, but check the rounds and stipulations i used and see if we can incorporate it here.

@heirtothekingdom: it's 01:31am at my region, am meant to be asleep, i have classes tomorrow luckily just 2 subjects, so i will have my post/opener up by then.

@gizmorino: Sorry for the long wait, I've been extremely busy. I am okay to debate from now on though.

Basic run down of Sam Alexander.

Upon wearing the Nova helmet, Sam Alexander gains plenty of abilities which vastly enhance his physical stats, and give him additional abilities.

Some of those abilities would be-

• Enhanced Strength
• Enhanced speed (to an extreme level)
• Enhanced durability
• Flight
• Energy projection
• Energy manipulation in various forms
• Capable of opening portals
• Also other things which I may or may not get into depending on how this goes

To go in more depth on Sam's character, he is fairly new to his powers. I don't know exactly when Jamie got his powers, I think it's been a couple of years. Jaime probably has more skill with his powers, but the Scarab has a mind of it's own and therefor is much harder to control than Sam's helmet. I think Jaime hasn't fully mastered his scarab's power, and can't keep it completely in his control throughout this fight.

jaime is also new to it, the scarab and jaime are already "buddies" they are in sync, they do what ever they can to survive, the scarab helps jaime and learns from him daily, it suggest counter measures for him in battle. battle is the one place they are completely in sync.

This gets into my next point, Sam may be a playful guy, and make jokes like let's say Spider-Man, but he also strategies when he needs to like Parker too. For example when he knew he couldn't stop Kluh (Hulk) in a fight, he threw him into space. Obviously the same wouldn't work here, but i'm trying to show that Sam is quite clever when fighting and will think of other ways to win if he's outmatched. Jamie is quite clever in fights himself, but I wouldn't say as much as Sam. Another example of Sam's cleverness is when Carnage recently knew his identity, and was constantly chasing Sam, so he put someone else into the suit so they would trick Carnage into thinking it wasn't Sam (which it was). If you ask me, Sam will outsmart Jamie if it comes to it, like for example if he can't beat Jamie head to head (which I think he can).

jaime is also smart, he tricked bloodbeetle to thinking the scarab has taken over him, he can put on displays also.

More on to a comparison to physical stats though, I don't know how strong Blue Beetle is physically, but Sam has strength capable of phasing powerhouses like Kluh and Beta Ray Bill. It's guaranteed he can hurt Jamie with his blows, and coupled with his speed with light speed (at least during travel), he can amplify those strikes. This will cause more damage to Beetle. I would also like to note that with the Nova Force, Sam can amplify said strikes for a much more devestaing blow, which releases energy too. So, it would be quite wise for Jamie to either counter, block, or evade such hits.I'm well aware though that this fight will mostly focus on energy projection as that's both of these guys main focus of attacks, and I feel Sam has more diversity with his blasts. He can have them turn, and range in sizes to hit Beetle during flight or combat. They can counter each other fairly evenly though, and had it been the Pre-52 version, I would say he would overpower Sam. Though it's not, and the power levels are fairly closer. I think with a little brains and power, Sam can defeat Jamie.

yeah with a little brain which jaime have, backed up with the scarab's intelligence, jaime would pull a win over sam, how? like i said jamie can use a cryo canon like he did against bleez, though that was the counter measure for a red lantern, the cryo canon was enough to k.o her, the scarab will find a counter measure to sam, it always do, if it sees an energy field it can suggest to jaime about freezing him, or speed mode which gives jaime claws that tear through armored tanks to rip through sam incaping him.

I just wanted to get a little debate going with that.

As for what you said here.

Speed: sub-luminal flight speed, react in fraction of a second(jaime quickly understood an already proccessed info downloaded to his mind in less than a second), process information in fraction of a second(he downloaded a medical surgery info already proccessed to jaime in less than a second), can access subspace, though hyperspace would affect him. Capable of blitzing multiple reach soldiers in speed mode,

Interesting, they both have light speed flight speed. I won't lie, Sam hasn't shown reaction speed on that level. I think this may be cause Blue Beetle has the Scarab, and it could allow him to process information and movements at a faster pace. Had Sam been in possession of the World Mind, that may have changed. I'll say Beetle has the quicker reaction speed, but Sam isn't slow. He can easily outrace bullets from Rocket Racoon, and dodge sword slashes from Gamora when he wasn't even aware she was behind him trying to. I think he can still react to most of Jamie's attacks.

Durability: he survived multiple gunshots from D.E.A agents, they could not open his suit, after using multiple types of enrgies and methods which worked for other aliens, shrugged of blast from kyle, bleez and another red lantern, resist a magical attack. Took multiple punches from booster gold without any effect, the punches just sent him across the ocean to main land.

Not quite sure how strong gunshots from D.E.A agents would be, but i'm guessing it's powerful? Maybe a little more information would be great. Although, taking blasts from Kyle and Bleez is fairly impressive as they are top tiers in their respective corps. I think Sam has taken impressive blasts of energy too. He was blasted by a massively large Chitari ship and was only shook for a few seconds. He's also tanked a lightning bolt from Beta Ray Bill. As for Booster Gold's punches barely phasing him, that's rather impressive. Sam has taken hits from gigantic robots, and basically shook off the blows like he wasn't struck. I think both of these guys would do more damage to each other with physical blows than energy blasts to be honest Luckily for Sam, he can project or little force-field around himself to decrease damage. I don't think neither will have trouble harming the other as their power level are fairly even as of now.

Striking power: K.O bleez a top tier red lantern, with a cryo-canon, tear through multiple reach soldiers while blitzing them, capable of tossing tanks(done by khaji-kai).

I think Jamie would have more trouble knocking Sam out with that as he's much faster than Bleez, and also the fact that lanterns aren't really too durable to physical attacks unless your Kliowog or Arkillo or Sodam Yat. That was the most impressive feat of the above too. Sam has strength enough to phase Kluh and Beta Ray Bill, two top tier brutes, one who has tanked planetary explosions more than once. I think it's safe to say he can hit nearly as hard as Jamie if he wants too.

I think that's enough for my first post, your turn.

thats all for now

@sodamyat: don't do it bloodbath

Im trying so hard not to get involved here.

Im trying so hard not to get involved here.

@gizmorino:

jaime is also new to it, the scarab and jaime are already "buddies" they are in sync, they do what ever they can to survive, the scarab helps jaime and learns from him daily, it suggest counter measures for him in battle. battle is the one place they are completely in sync.

Interesting it seems they are both using powers they are fairly new too. I don't know how skilled Jamie is at this point, but Sam has learned quite a lot and has even been trained a bit by both Gamora and Rocket Racoon. He's been fighting in you could say galactic battles early on from getting his helmet. Seeing as he's easily dealt with those situations, I think he's quite experienced. Even if he doesn't have the ability to communicate and get information from his helmet like Jamie can, his helmet can still do things like scan, make holograms, and such, so it's still useful.

yeah... he is fairly new but khaji-kai uploaded battle modes to jaime's scarab and all, the scarab can suggest a suitable battle mode to use after analysing sam and his energy form. He has also fought multiple scarab warriors before fleeing, that alone shows him not being trained is not making him useless as the scarab can back up everything, and even create a decoy scarab to distract sam, note that it would have the same energy signature with sam.

jaime is also smart, he tricked bloodbeetle to thinking the scarab has taken over him, he can put on displays also.

Yeah, I know Jamie is quite clever himself. I just don't think he's as clever as Sam is to be honest. Sam has just gotten his powers, and in almost every other fight he's tricked some being to win. I could see Sam using the Scarab and Jamie's connection as an advantage, like maybe insulting them (saying one said something to the other) and causing them to have conflict between one another to get a quick strike it.

yeah... sam is a tricky b@st@rd, but carnage is an idiot, and that other girl that wanted to kill his mom was a fool also. Jaime has senses of his own, like finding out about the assassin that wanted kyle dead, he thinks fast.

yeah with a little brain which jaime have, backed up with the scarab's intelligence, jaime would pull a win over sam, how? like i said jamie can use a cryo canon like he did against bleez, though that was the counter measure for a red lantern, the cryo canon was enough to k.o her, the scarab will find a counter measure to sam, it always do, if it sees an energy field it can suggest to jaime about freezing him, or speed mode which gives jaime claws that tear through armored tanks to rip through sam incaping him.

How powerful is this Cyro Canon? I mean it must be powerful if it's a countermeasure for a Red Lantern, but is it a Red Lantern's weakness or something? How exactly is this form of attack performed? From what I remember it looks like a form of sonic blast, which I believe Sam could evade with his great speed. As for freezing, it will be difficult to freeze someone as fast as Sam. Beetle isn't used to fighting someone with speed on par or above his own, so this will be a problem. There is also the fact that Sam can discharge himself with an omnidirectional blast to break the ice. Just a possibility, it hasn't actually happened. The claws are the only things that seem to be a real danger as Sam would most likely be sliced from it, but I can see him firing blasts of energy to keep Jamie at bay.

its not a sonic blaster, he has various blasters, the cryo canon was just his counter measures and it froze bleez, he also took on another lantern after taking on bleez. sam has not shown energy blast to take beetle down, booster gold was looking to destroy army, he said he knows a reach warrior and what they are, and he will kill them before they hurt anyone, he thought jaime was under control and went all out on him, jaime never even felt his blows though it took him across the river, he got serious and handled booster. sam has not the speed to deal with jaime, and jaime's durability is also a factor, the dea deals with aliens, sam has been knocked around by carnage, and kluh broke his helmet, there are other people who has hurt him......

thats all for now

Same.

awaiting counter................

@gizmorino:

yeah... he is fairly new but khaji-kai uploaded battle modes to jaime's scarab and all, the scarab can suggest a suitable battle mode to use after analysing sam and his energy form. He has also fought multiple scarab warriors before fleeing, that alone shows him not being trained is not making him useless as the scarab can back up everything, and even create a decoy scarab to distract sam, note that it would have the same energy signature with sam.

That's actually quite cool, but Sam has fought of entire Armada's with little to no help, so I would think his feat is nearly as impressive. I think they are both quite impressive in this category, the difference being Sam fight's galactic threats more often, so he's done more. Also Sam can track energy signatures, so all that would happen is he would track both of those signatures. Likely knowing one wasn't the right one.

i know issue 3 he was busting through and armada of chitauri ship, that doesn't mean he would bust through jaime who fast moving and is gonna be returning fire back at him.

yeah... sam is a tricky b@st@rd, but carnage is an idiot, and that other girl that wanted to kill his mom was a fool also. Jaime has senses of his own, like finding out about the assassin that wanted kyle dead, he thinks fast.

Agreed. They are both smart individuals.

its not a sonic blaster, he has various blasters, the cryo canon was just his counter measures and it froze bleez, he also took on another lantern after taking on bleez. sam has not shown energy blast to take beetle down, booster gold was looking to destroy army, he said he knows a reach warrior and what they are, and he will kill them before they hurt anyone, he thought jaime was under control and went all out on him, jaime never even felt his blows though it took him across the river, he got serious and handled booster. sam has not the speed to deal with jaime, and jaime's durability is also a factor, the dea deals with aliens, sam has been knocked around by carnage, and kluh broke his helmet, there are other people who has hurt him......

Okay makes sense. I don't see how it will hold Sam for long when he can release energy all around him to break free from the ice, something I don't think Red Lanterns can do. whycan't red lanterns break free? bleez broke out but the cryo canon did it's job in subduing her, if it was sam after being subdued(which is already a k.o) he can just ready another type of canon like a plasma canon to give him a final k.o. This could catch Beetle by surprise and Sam could likely follow it up with a next attack leaving him dazed. no, it won't catch jaime by surprise, because the scarab armor would protect him, the energy blast has nothing to say it would harm jaime, jaime would be in a considerable amount of distance away from sam, only if he wants him stabbed thats when he would come close to sam, and again it's gonne happen in a blitz, that's how all who has been stabbed by the beetle receive it, either in speed mode or just in normal mode but still in a blitz, before they know whats going on. Also Sam has more than enough power to hurt Beetle, Comparing Booster Gold to Nova isn't a good comparison as Sam is more powerful than him and has been capable of phasing Kluh, iirc kluh wasn't feeling his attacks, the only one that may have tickle him is the one he unleashed a huge amount of nova force in his mouth or so, and him blasting him, sam was just getting played with by kluh who wasn;t serious with him, just going for the slow kill. and Beta Ray Bill with his strikes and even sending Mindless Ones hurling through buildings. He will phase Jamie. the scarab has survived a blast from a g.l who wanted to annihilate it, it sustained minimal to average harm then entered subspace to escape, nothing says sam's punches, nova blasts or amped punches is above a g.l blast that wants a scarab dead. His energy blasts are even more impressive as they can be fired in great quantity allow him to destroy large ships, Sam is durable too, being knocked around by Carnage did nothing to him, carnage is atmost a mid level character, his attacks are not meant to harm sam and even if it did you have to remember his helmet is currently damaged as of recently so it may make him weaker. Kluh is also a stronger version of Hulk so you can be damn sure it would hurt Sam and break his helmet. Beetle's suit may not have been damaged, but he would be knocked out for sure too. he would be knocked around but he may not feel any of his attacks like booster gold. and again blacknova/supernova= nova centurion <= regular lanterns<<<< top tier lanterns=nova prime, booster has shown he is capable of handling guy gardner who is a top g.l atmost. argueably booster gold is above sam, he was even posing as superman in one pre52 story arc, so ooster gold is not a small boy he is low herald atmost and high midtier on average

awaiting counter................

Same.

sam's feats should end at issue 30 of his series, incase this cav reaches that extent, because it would be unfair for me to debate with jaime who has 17 issues of feat or 26 issues of feats atmost if i add threshold

Doesn't Jamie appear in other comics unlike Sam? A little unfair though cause Jamie has a suit that basically tells him everything so throughout his comic he knows or has an idea of how to use his abilities. While Sam as of recently is just getting the hang of them. nope only justice league international wher he fought o.m.a.c who bfr'd him to 52% away to another part of the universe. e has very low appearance. just 26 or 27 like i said on overall appearance

funny i haven't even used my joker card yet.XD

@gizmorino:

i know issue 3 he was busting through and armada of chitauri ship, that doesn't mean he would bust through jaime who fast moving and is gonna be returning fire back at him.

That may be true, but I was simply on the fact that someone is capable of busting straight through chitauri ships are capable of hurting Jamie. true, but chitauri ships have less durability than jaime, yes the attack would affect him but on a minimal to average level, and that's if he is able to bullrush him like he did the chitauri ship. I mean yes Jamie is faster than the ships movement, and he does certainly have better offensive attacks than it, but that does't necessarily mean he would be able to dodge every attack sent his way. Nova is certainly faster than light in travel speed atleast, and should be capable of bull-rushing Jamie. He can then proceed to do what he wishes afterwards. with warp speed yes(he is faster than light), his warp speed works like nova prime's star gate, just like in issue 3 when he "teleported" when moving too fast(speed was unknown, but it's safe to say relativistic), and that time he went to visit rocket several lightyears away in 15 minutes.

whycan't red lanterns break free? bleez broke out but the cryo canon did it's job in subduing her, if it was sam after being subdued(which is already a k.o) he can just ready another type of canon like a plasma canon to give him a final k.o.

Yeah that may be true, but Sam either counter it with his own blasts of energy, simply dodge it with superior speed or just put up a force-field. superior speed? based on what? I believe I mentioned he can send attacks right back at his opponents, so Jamie might feel the sting of his own attack. By the way, I doubt one plasma canon would knock him out, nor will a cyro canon freeze him for certain because it did so to a Red Lantern. it would work on sam, it's a cryo blast i.e extreme low temperature, which has worked on other characters with energy aura, it would freeze sam for sure, but how long? we don't know, but it's safe to say enough for jaime to k.o him with another attack sam is quite different from a lantern, and could possibly release a wave of energy around him to escape it. that could cancel the blast but put sam on the defensive side.

no, it won't catch jaime by surprise, because the scarab armor would protect him, the energy blast has nothing to say it would harm jaime, jaime would be in a considerable amount of distance away from sam, only if he wants him stabbed thats when he would come close to sam, and again it's gonne happen in a blitz, that's how all who has been stabbed by the beetle receive it, either in speed mode or just in normal mode but still in a blitz, before they know whats going on.

Sam has been shown to hurt someone of Jamie's level multiple times. true It's the fact that you're sticking to Jamie's high end feats that make it seem otherwise.nope just his feats from a 16 issue series plus 5 issue tie-in series, he just din't have low showing as he was depicted as a reach warrior capable of depopulating planets and take on lanterns. The fact that Sam is faster as the guy can literally go at faster than light speeds on many occasions, I don't see him having trouble tag Jamie. again it's his travel speed, and his travel speed is notwhat you make it seem to be he uses space warp which works like nova prime's stargate or hyperspace(just a simpler example) If anything it would be Jamie having trouble to keep up, because be honest who has really kept up with Sam so far in speed? he hasn't had speed battle to my knowledge, he just go about the universe space warping looking for his father, While Jamie hasn't out-right blitzed people like Sam does. jaime blitz multiple gangsters before they knew what was happening or could even react immediately he got the scarab, he also blitz DEA agents, khaji-kai another scarab blitz his own planet military men even those in vehicles and the vehicle(maybe) when he got the scarab so that point is nullified. remind me of anycase where sam blitz people, and am not talking bull-rushing because jaime would react to it. Jamie can have as many close combat weapons as he wan'ts, Sam will be cautious. His superior speed will allow him to get around it. except great travel speed is not like great combat speed

iirc kluh wasn't feeling his attacks, the only one that may have tickle him is the one he unleashed a huge amount of nova force in his mouth or so, and him blasting him, sam was just getting played with by kluh who wasn;t serious with him, just going for the slow kill.

He still was able to daze Kluh, something I wouldn't see Jamie capable of doing. he dazed kluh? kluh was just..... ok. dazed for less than 2 seconds and smacked sam next. why do you think he can't, he has blasted kyle, blasted o.m.a.c, blasted booster gold, and even punched booster who tangles with guy gardner and few other heavy hitters. besides nothing is stopping him from stabbing kluh.

the scarab has survived a blast from a g.l who wanted to annihilate it, it sustained minimal to average harm then entered subspace to escape, nothing says sam's punches, nova blasts or amped punches is above a g.l blast that wants a scarab dead.

Which green lantern was this? Not every green lantern is powerful, not to mention green lanterns are no where as powerful as they used to be. Sam may not have the same damage output as lantern, but he does have blasts capable of hurting Jamie, and unlike the lanterns he can move around at great speeds to send in multiple attacks to account for the lack of power.

carnage is atmost a mid level character, his attacks are not meant to harm sam

Carnage can lift 80 tons, his strength is up there. lifting strength is not striking strength, you can lift a log of wood but that doesn't mean you can obliterate it with 1 or 5 punches

he would be knocked around but he may not feel any of his attacks like booster gold. and again blacknova/supernova= nova centurion <= regular lanterns<<<< top tier lanterns=nova prime, booster has shown he is capable of handling guy gardner who is a top g.l atmost. argueably booster gold is above sam, he was even posing as superman in one pre52 story arc, so ooster gold is not a small boy he is low herald atmost and high midtier on average

First off that ranking you just made is incorrect, and doens't mean much.New 52 lanterns are on the same level as Nova Centurions, and such, they have no impressive feats. Me giving them that is being nice. what do centurions have over egular new52 lanterns? Beating a lantern in the New 52 isn't all that because they really haven';t been that impressive to be honest. 5 years ago yes but now they are, john took a morals off punch from a daxamite and daxamite <=kryptonians and he even beat her, hal has blasted them and k.o'd them. Even someone like Hal Jordan gets his constructs destroyed in every battle, by every battle you mean 5 years ago with superman and diana, yes? and besides hal is not a construct guy, john is the construct guy, even kilowog makes better and stronger constructs than hal, hal is all about energy blasts and other whatnots. and for you to say Booster Gold is herald level because he beat Guy is wrong too, as Guy himself in the New 52 isn't even herald level;. guy beat atrocitus who has held his own against jonn and apollo, and we all know jonn is herald level and apollo is like low herald. and i still stand with my previous rating black novas/supernovas = nova centurions which are <= regular lanterns and are <<<< top tier lanterns=nova prime. and jaime has received blasts from kyle, an has returned fire with kyle feeling the attack.

nope only justice league international wher he fought o.m.a.c who bfr'd him to 52% away to another part of the universe. e has very low appearance. just 26 or 27 like i said on overall appearance

Okay.

funny i haven't even used my joker card yet.XD

I have stuff not yet shown yet either. not gonna be a surprise to me *inserts joker laughing*

Your turn. well now it's yours

@gizmorino: Awesome sauce. Tag me for votes.

Oooh T4V and good luck to both

@gizmorino: @heirtothekingdom: Nice match up. T4V please.

Tag for votes!

@gizmorino: I think we can open votes now, lol. o.k tag people you think would be interested to vote