CAV: Batman vs Sceptile (Voting Open)

@captain_batman_ftw

vs

@those_eyes

Rules

- In Character

- Batman from Arkham video game universe (all gear)

- Ash Ketchum's Sceptile from pokemon universe

- Combatants start 500 feet away from each other

- Win via KO, Kill, Incap

- No prep, no prior knowledge

Setting

General CAV Rules:

- If you want to notify either of us of anything, PM us

- Please don't actually debate on this thread, this is a challenge between two people

- Please don't make premature statements in regards to the victor

- When voting, vote for the person you believed set out a better argument (not just the character that would actually win the fight)

- Words of encouragement, memes, and trash talk (provided it's in good humor) are very much welcome

- The voting cap will be set at first to 10, but can change.

@captain_batman_ftw

Intro

Sceptile

Powers/Abilites

Wall Crawling - Sceptile is able to transverse upon any surface in a similar fashion to spiderman

Flight - When there is even a slightest gust of wind in the air sceptile is able to take flight and glide in multiple directions

Leaf Blade - The blades that protrude from sceptiles tale and arms are hard and sharp enough to cut through steel and fully grown trees

Bullet Seed - From sceptiles mouth hard seeds are shot at bullet speed

Solar Beam - After absorbing energy from the sunlight a concentrated beam of sunlight is unleashed from sceptiles mouth

Phsysical Skills

Agility - Even in his pre evoled form as a treeko. sceptile has adept agility that would make night wing blush

H2hSkills- sceptile has a quick acrobatic fighting style where he utilizes his blades from his arms and tail as a means of attack

Immunities and Weaknesses

Strategy

Gotham seems to give sceptile a distinct advantage in terrain since sceptile has plenty of area to climb and transverse onto. The only real advantages you seem to have is that sceptile wont be able to use solar beam more than once due to it being night time so sunlight energy reserves will be exhausted quickly and that its dark so stealth may be on your side. Despite that sceptile still has use of bullet seed for ranged attacks and stealth based attacks are unlikely to be successful due to starting distance and sceptiles reaction speed.

Im not familiar with Arkham verse batman so ill go more indepth on sceptiles abilities and attack plan after seeing your opener.

@those_eyes: I'll go over gear, skills and stats.

Arkhamverse Batman:

This version of Batman is just like his mainstream version, just that there are som stuff in their canon history that's a little different. Arkhamverse Batman and mainstream Batman has the same origin, same goal and same motive behind their goals. Just to show a quick bio of him, here you go:

Sorry for the quality being a little shaky, but it's because I took the pics with my phone. As you can see here, it's pretty much the same as the mainstream version. Btw, this is taken from Batman's bio fromBatman Arkham Asylum.

Skills

This version of Batman is pretty close to his mainstream version. He's almost mastered every martial art known to man, he has genius-level intellect, he is very skilled with his gear, he's a master tactician and strategist and so on. Here is a quick bio as for what he posesses:

Gallery

The first bio is from Batman Arkham Asylum and the second one from Batman Arkham City. As you can see for yourself, he's an expert in almost all known forms of martial arts. To give a brief showing of what kind of reputation he's skilled has given him, take a look at these bios:

Gallery

First scan: ''WARNING: Considered armed and extremely dangerous. Approach with extreme caution. Multiple outstanding warrants.'' Then it continues with some few other stuff (which one of them is wether or not Batman exists or not. This was shown after Batman had been operating in Gotham for two freaking years), but the reason as for why I posted the second one is due to the fact that the GCPD wondered wether or not Batman was only one man or multiple, as it says: ''Conflict reports - is he one man- or many?''. That's a pretty good rep.

There are those showings of Bruce using these skills, but I'll show his skill with the his gear in below in this post. I'm gonna show his skills in H2H here in this department.

Being an expert in almost every form known to man is pretty rad, but has he shown these skills in action? Yes he has, starting with Deathstroke: While Batman only had 2 years of experience, Slade may have had more than 10+ years of expirience, but Batman beat him:

Skip to 2:40. That's where the fight starts, and the best thing about this fight is that Batman got an enhanced human being wonder wether or not he was a human being, because at the end of the fight at 8:53, Batman pushkicks Slade into the wall and Slade asks him, and I quote: ''What are you?''

To show you what kind of level Slade is in when it comes to H2H, we can take a look in his bio from Batman Arkham Origins:

''Master of multiple combat techniques.'' What makes this feat even better is the fact that Slade is an enhanced human and do you know what he said to Batman at the end of their fight? This:

Skip to 8:54. Slade asks Batman, and I quote: ''What are you?'' This showcases that Batman is minimally as fast as an enhanced human (excuse my power scaling). Here's Slade's bio showcasing facts:

Gallery

Scan 1: The three first stuff that's said in that bio is already a good showing for Batman considering that he managed to defeat him when you get to know that Slade is enhanced and he himself is a master at some combat techniques. Scan 2: Shows Slade's history with his enhancments. Defeating Deathstroke and then having Deathstroke wondering what Batman is, is a pretty rad feat.

Better yet, let's look at another fight he had with Ra's Al Ghul:

2:50. Not only does Batman fight against Ra's, but against a bunch of League of Assassins ninjas. To showcase how good Ra's' H2H is, let's take a look at his bio from Batman Arkham City:

''Superb hand-to-hand combatant, trained over millennia.'' What makes this impressive is Ra's expirience combined with his H2H. Not to mention that it says that he has ''superior strenght and stamina'', which may or may not refer to strenght and stamina above a normal human.

What about the deadly assassin known as Lady Shiva? Batman defeated her as well:

He fought multiple ninjas alongisde fighting agasint Lady Shiva as well. Skip to 2:06 to see the fight. Here's her bio:

Gallery

Scan 1: ''Martial arts grandmaster'' and ''unmatched skill in H2H.'' You can read scan two for yourself since there's no point telling about it when you can read how dangerous she is for yourself.

Just to showcase a small showing for Shiva:

Skip to 24:56.

Stats

Batman got pretty sweet physical stats. As I showed earlier, Batman managed to overwhelm an enhanced human with his speed. He's a bullet timer and has really good agiltiy and damn good striking power.

11:17. He breaks bulletproof glass with his fists. His punches has been capable of taking out Killer Croc, who was capable of tanking explosions to the face. Another one is where he sends Joker flying from one side of the chapel room to the other side:

Skip to 20:24.

He has a great reaction time and great reflexes as well. Here are some few showings (Skip to 1:42, and Batman dodged the ice blast after it was shot towards his direction right where he was standing):

He dodged a shot by Deadshot, and the reason as for why I think he dodged it is because Deadshot was accurate as hell. He managed to tag 4-5 people with one shot while he was surprised.

Another one is here where he was dodging missiles after they had been shot:

Skip to 6:43. He dodges the missile after it was shot, and it was coming towards his direction.

As for agiltiy, I doubt Sceptile is more agile than Batman through what you've shown. Here is a great agility - alongside reaction time - feat:

14:30. This is a good agility showing and there are multiple other ones as well.

Gear

The gear I'll be using in this match are explosives gel, smoke bombs and maybe some other stuff, but I'll get into gear later.

Conlcusion

The reason as for why I think that Bats wins is due to the fact that he has vastly superior stats and his martial art knowledge should allow him to easily win in close distance. Sure, Sceptile, has those buggy blades, but it's nothing Batman can't dodge considering that he was blocking attacks from an enhanced human (Slade), and he had reaction time good enough to dodge missiles and bullets at close range. His striking power is very good and it has a lot of force to it, but I can't judge wether or not it's good enough to tank attakcs from Batman. As for durability, I'm pretty sure that Bats can tank Sceptile's attacks considering that he has been punched and thrown through brick walls multiple times before. He has tanked falls from multiple stories and he once tanked a fall from a hight that looked like 45-50 meters. This was just a post to show his stats and skills, I'll get into gear later. Don't count this as a strategy yet, just something I thought up right now, cause I'll be getting into stealth later...

T4V

...WOW

Vastly superior stats? The only thing you can arguably be even remotely superior in is h2h knowledge.

Agility

I just dont see how batman is more agile to you. Ive never seen arkam or even mainstream batman be able to move like sceptile. I showed sceptile jumping from the ground flour of a stadium all the way to the ceiling while doing flips and dodging bullet seed while doing backflips. There is absolutely no way batman can replicate agility/acrobatics like that without some form of aid.

Here as a grovyle, sceptile is able to transverse up a ship with ease

Durability

Sceptile is just as if not more durable than bats.

Sceptile has take blows from a angry Exploud who was easily throwing boulders and punching through trees. Batman doesnt have that kind of striking power or strength

Speed

Sceptile can amp his speed during battle so even if batman was faster and more agile he will get surpassed quickly due to sceptiles quick attack

Your best bet would be to steer clear of h2h with sceptile and use distance and your gear to your advantage but even then its unlikely you still wont be tagged. Batman has some good blunt force damage soak but he is going against sceptile who uses slicing and piercing attacks mainly. Its unlikely batman can last long especially given the battle field advantage sceptile has with all the buildings.

So now ill wait to see your indepth strategy of stealth and use of gear

@those_eyes: I'm very, very, very sorry for putting up a post this late; but honestly, I wasn't so enthusiastic in debating for Arkham Batman anymore, due to me overusing him. Still, I'll finish this CaV, cause I don't want it to go to waste.

I just dont see how batman is more agile to you. Ive never seen arkam or even mainstream batman be able to move like sceptile. I showed sceptile jumping from the ground flour of a stadium all the way to the ceiling while doing flips and dodging bullet seed while doing backflips. There is absolutely no way batman can replicate agility/acrobatics like that without some form of aid.

Here as a grovyle, sceptile is able to transverse up a ship with ease

Yeah, but the thing is: Batman actually has a better agility feat than this, and I didn't even bring it in. That was when he was dodging bullets from Deadshot:

Or outpacing shots from choppers?

Besides, Sceptile's agility should be of no problems considering that Batman has good enough reaction time to dodge bullets.

Sceptile is just as if not more durable than bats.

Sceptile has take blows from a angry Exploud who was easily throwing boulders and punching through trees. Batman doesnt have that kind of striking power or strength

Yes, Batman does have that kind of striking power. Here's Killer Croc, who was tanking huge explosions:

• 0:34, you can see the size of the explosion here.
• At 1:04, he tanked this explosion.
• At 1:30, he tanks the same kind of explosion again.
• 2:02. he tanks it again.
• 2:13, Killer Croc has no visible damage, and he was laughing, so you can't say that Croc was already exhausted from the explosions.
• Batman managed to finish him off with his striking power at 2:41.

Killer Croc's durability is above that of Sceptile's and the attacks he tanked is worse than what Sceptile has shown; at least from the ones you've shown. Batman finished off Croc with his striking power, so Sceptile's durability should be no problem to Batman. Besides, Sceptile barely made it out alive from the durability feat you posted, which even makes the chances of Batman knocking him out higher.

Sceptile can amp his speed during battle so even if batman was faster and more agile he will get surpassed quickly due to sceptiles quick attack

Just how good can he make it? I saw the gif you posted, but Batman has reacted to bullets and missiles, so I can't make a judgment until you post some more speed feats.

Your best bet would be to steer clear of h2h with sceptile and use distance and your gear to your advantage but even then its unlikely you still wont be tagged. Batman has some good blunt force damage soak but he is going against sceptile who uses slicing and piercing attacks mainly. Its unlikely batman can last long especially given the battle field advantage sceptile has with all the buildings.

Ok, this is a tough one, but the counter for this is pretty simple; smoke bombs. Batman has used smoke bombs many times (when facing overwhelming odds) in canon. After he's thrown the smoke bomb, he will go in and try to take out Sceptile while the smoke is active. And it would most likely work considering Batman's physical stats.

''Attacking armed thugs head on is suicide. I need to disappear, pick them off silently one by one.'' So, even if Batman feels that he gets overwhelmed, he'd throw in a smoke bomb and beat the crap out of Sceptile while the smoke is active.

@captain_batman_ftw:

Those_eyes Conclusion post

I still think sceptile is too much for batman in all stats. Sceptile was even clinching with exploud holding him back showing his strength is just as strong as explouds.

As for the smoke pellets thats a waist. All sceptile needs to do is jump away from the smoke. As ive shown early sceptile can jump easily to stadium heights in one leap.

Batmans gear is useless for the most part due to sceptile being able to avoid alot of it with his speed and agility. Even your batarangs wont work as sceptile was able to be hit with razor leaf with barely any damage and raor leaf has sliced through steel like butter

I see batman being beat if he takes the fight uplose and if he uses range then sceptile can cover the range with his speed or bullet seed.

Thats my conclusion post. Whenever you are ready we can start the voting process.

@captain_batman_ftw: we need to start voting. Do you want to make your conclusion post?

@those_eyes: Yes.

Ok after you make your conclusion we will start the voting process. It will be first to 10 votes but if it gets really close we will stretch it out to like 15 votes.

@those_eyes: Sure.

Batman uses quick attack, very effective.

T4V

This was incredibly short.

@those_eyes:

I still think sceptile is too much for batman in all stats. Sceptile was even clinching with exploud holding him back showing his strength is just as strong as explouds.

This is good and all, but I really doubt that Batman would try to grapple Sceptile. He'll go for a fist fight. Even if Sceptile manages to grapple onto Batman, Batman can contend with him in raw strenght, considering that Arkham Batman is above one ton when it comes to strenght.

Gallery

Another one is him getting lose from Bane's grip, and Bane was throwing around cars in, Assault On Arkham. So I doubt Sceptile's strenght would be a problem to Batman.

As for the smoke pellets thats a waist. All sceptile needs to do is jump away from the smoke. As ive shown early sceptile can jump easily to stadium heights in one leap.

Sceptile doesn't posses the agility to jump out of the smoke before Batman arrives first. Sure, you showed a good agiltiy feat for Sceptile when you showed him dodgin bullet seeds, but from the looks of it, the bullet seed is nowhere near the speed of a bullet or the speed of sound. From the looks of it; it doesn't even move faster than what the human eye can keep pace with. Is there some irrefutable proof for the bullet seeds moving at the speed of a normal bullet, or the speed of sound for that sake?

Batman will most likely reach Sceptile before Sceptile will be able to jump out of the smoke, because: a) From what we have shown, Arkham Batman should be faster, due to the fact that Sceptile's agility feats (those which are shown here) aren't as good as someone who outpaces bullets from choppers. Nor do I think that Sceptile's agility is good enough to contend with someone who regularly takes out enhanced multi-tonners (titans).

So honestly, Sceptile's agility shouldn't be a problem considering that he has defeated people like Deathstroke, who is enhanced, which means that he should be above Batman on paper.

Batmans gear is useless for the most part due to sceptile being able to avoid alot of it with his speed and agility. Even your batarangs wont work as sceptile was able to be hit with razor leaf with barely any damage and raor leaf has sliced through steel like butter

That's good then, because I know that Batman doesn't need to waste gadgets on Sceptile. The only thing he needs to use against Sceptile is smoke bombs, which he will do in close proximity, and he will succeed by reaching Sceptile before Sceptile gets to jump away, because Batman will throw the smoke bomb in close proximity, and reach Sceptile before Sceptile gets to move away.

I see batman being beat if he takes the fight uplose and if he uses range then sceptile can cover the range with his speed or bullet seed.

Batman isn't a stupid guy. I put the smoke bomb as a tactic because Batman knows that this is a dangerous opponent, and he can be overwhelmed. Sceptile's speed shouldn't be a problem. I've already gone through that. It's more impressive that you outpace bullets from choppers, rather than dodging objects that aren't even faster than what the human eye can perceive. Besides, Sceptile won't even tag Batman with bullet seeds, due to the fact that Bruce has dodged missiles and bullets countless amount of times.

Summary

Sceptile's speed won't be a problem, and the smoke bomb tactic will most likely work due to Batman's speed.

Still, I know I missed out on a lot of stuff, so I'm probably going to lose this.

T4V

@batbro15@stormshadow_x@lukehero@speedster101@ssj_god@crushyourenemies

@captain_batman_ftw:

hmm.. let me read it first

@those_eyes gets my vote. Good counters to Cap's arguments and because Cap lacked confidence

@those_eyes@captain_batman_ftw

Alright... so I wanna say that I don't think either of you guys gave this one your all, and I've seen better from both of you :/.

Although, I wouldn't say that either of you did, bad, it's just neither of you went very in depth in countering and didn't make very intricate posts that most great debates would require

Those_eyes: As always you showed a great amount of knowledge on your character, ranging from the extra, normally irrelevant and forgettable things, that were actually pretty cool. (since you specialize in Pokemans ;p). You formatted well and had a simple, argument, but supported it solidly imo. Good job. Some things I would think you lacked, counters, you did effectively display what Sceptiles advantages are and why he is superior in those areas, but you didn't really counter your opponents feat/ didn't counter his strategy or really mention his gear much. And I don't think I saw much (if any) quoting of your opponent, which is by far my favorite formatting tool.

CaptainBatmanFTW: You did better in the area of counters (since your opponent didn't really counter much... if at all...), but I felt like you kinda mis used your character. You didn't play off your advantages in the way you could have (stealth, more feats of Batmans strategic mind/ use of gear/ and all the INSANE gear he gets in the arkham games). And while you did show it to some degree, you didn't capitalize on it like your I felt your opponent did. And bro... You really need to work on formatting.

TheTrueBarryAllen, Cosmicallyaware1, TNBB007, and myself (to some degree, I'm learning, but the other three are much better than me) are some you should check out and learn a thing or to about formatting.

My vote is gonna definitely go to Those_eyes. While counter were lacking, everything else was done very well. I felt like he supported his strategy and used his character much better. I also, think your formatting was better and you really made me believe in Sceptile's capabilities.

Sorry if I was a bit harsh, I want you to know this was by no means bad, just not as good as I know both of you could do :) Hope I helped out.

@crushyourenemies: @speedster101: thanks for the vote speedster.

I think the lack of knowledge we had on the opposing character kinda made us not give it are all and we were involved in some other threads that kept us busy so we kinda wanted to rap this up quick. me and captain will have a better cav next time.

@crushyourenemies: Usally the short CAVs are the better ones. A debate starts to go stale after a while and become stupid back and forth nonsense on the same 3 or 4 points.

@those_eyes: Like i said not bad, just both you and Captain have done better is all :)

@lukehero: not true that is only if both users nit pick or if one does not want to surrender when they don't have enough showing to back up their character also it's not stupid , what is "stupid" is thinking you are better then them or for ranting your opinions thinking it 's fact . Everyone debates differently

@captain_batman_ftw: gets my vote , I was no sold on Sceptile speed or bullet seed. I think Cap FTW had more quantifiable feats and by that reason alone won the debate in my eyes.

Sigh...Just another stupid day on comicvine. I'll come back and vote later.

@lukehero:

?

@jestersmiles: Read the exchange above. Apparently saying something on comicvine means I think I'm better than someone. I mean comments like that make my head hurt, because of how left field and dumb they are.

@lukehero: oh that.......I got nothing xD. Just ignore and move on lol.

@lukehero: if got a problem with me then stop being a idiot and address it rather then acting tough behind a screen also I was just making an example on hat you said so that was "dumb" of you to think you know what I was thinking . I mean if all you have are lame insults and pointless banter on how you know more then me then you are just wasting your time , I was not trying to be mean in anyway but if you are going to be rude then I will respond accordingly , like really it's people like you that cause these pointless, "left field and dumb" arguments in the first place <_<

@smxlr8: I'm acting tough now? Stop trolling and stop derailing a CAV. If you aren't trolling, then go open a separate thread on debate styles. Jesus...

@lukehero: tough talk there , how am I trolling when I am just telling you that you are wrong? Don't tell me what to do ok , if you want to agree to dis agree fine then say it so we can end this

Metal is super effective against grass. Just saying. Batman just needs one or two good baterang hits and sceptile is down for the count.

It's steel, not metal, and it's not super effective against grass.

@smxlr8: how can someone's opinion be wrong? Irony much? if any one being hostile here it's you. So how about you step back and relax. BTW you are flagged for calling some one stupid.

@jestersmiles: you are flagged as well since I did not insult anyone yet you are causing trouble for reason

@smxlr8:

Flagging me for no reason just result in you getting a flag have fun and you did insult him. Bye :)

@jestersmiles: whatever so bye =D go troll some where else

@speedster101: I was tired of debating with Arkham Bats, that's why I didn't put much effort here. That's also why I used 25 days to respond back.

I did do good in my first post, IMO.

@captain_batman_ftw: I felt you couldve done better on formatting even in the opener though.

@mysticmedivh said:

@gothicowboy said:

Metal is super effective against grass. Just saying. Batman just needs one or two good baterang hits and sceptile is down for the count.

It's steel, not metal, and it's not super effective against grass.

My lawn mower lies!!

On a more serious note, I don't know if Batman could keep up with the sceptiles speed.