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#51 Posted by Wolverine08 (45707 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: You don't necessarily have to be wordy, but you do have to make sure that you make it clear to the audience what purpose scan you are using serves to your arugument.

#52 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

good goin. much better than the other cav.

umm, story i am missing?

the one with blazinghell and killemall. its a giant scan bomb

#53 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@sog7dc said:

good goin. much better than the other cav.

umm, story i am missing?

the one with blazinghell and killemall. its a giant scan bomb

I planned on reading it today, how was it?

#54 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio
#55 Edited by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: ehh, good debate or flaming insults?

#56 Posted by SOG7dc (8213 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman:

lots of posturing and re-addressing the same points over ad over and over. its a shame too because it could have been really good

#57 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: i think i'll read it regardless, but hopefully it doesn't get to boring.

#58 Edited by DeathandGrim (2097 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: It was supposed to be like THE cav to read but damn what a fizzle out that was.

#60 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@New_World_Order: Your post didnt show up for some reason, but its your turn. You should just make a closer, then I'll make a closer.

#61 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@xxxddd: @sog7dc: @wolverine08: Thanks !

@allstarsuperman:

Oh my bad, forgot about this, but here is my post.

Ehh, I agree, but they aren't easily destroyed. Not saying Thor couldn't or anything, but if you're talking about the new 52 justice league, that was PIS against Hal Jordan, imho.

I see. PlS or not, i think we both know Thor strikes harder than Superman with Mjolnir, so if Superman can destroy a construct whether it be easily or not, Thor can definitely replicate that.

I truly agree with you. Thor does seem to have the striking advantage, but he needs the speed to land the strike as well.

Agreed, although he can strike Superman.

I would honestly say he can destroy a planet, I mean he's Superman. But yeah, feats is better than speculation.

Agreed again.

It will hurt him yes, but probably not "that" bad.

Really now? A strike that send an AMPED Hulk flying into space, and than crashing on the other side of the planet isn't going to hurt Superman badly? I find that hard to believe. It's going to hurt the hell out of Superman, is going to do extreme amounts of damage. The only reason why Hulk wasn't KO'ed.is because the hammer amped him, including his durability. In Fear Itself, Nul Hulk was never Ko'ed, that's how durable he was. Just because he wasn't badly hurt or KO'ed, doesn't mean Superman will be. The man of steel is going to be in much pain after that. To be honest, I wouldn't be suprised if an attack like that left Superman near unconscious, and Thor would just have to finish the fight with a downward smash.

Superman says he can split a moon in one punch, this is without building up speed

Quite the statement, I believe he can do this.

Dodges astro force, speedblitzes Orion, and makes him bleed with 1 hit.

Now this is impressive seeing as how durable Orion is. Thor has made Odin call out in pain in one strike. I think my feat is a lot more impressive. Just shows you exactly why I believe Thor hits harder than anyone else on his level.

Punches Wonder Woman from the Sun to Earth in a punch. Also kinda a skill feat as he would have to aim the punch just right to send he directly back to Earth.

One of the best feats I've ever seen of Superman, as punching someone in space is not easy at all, and he hit her all the way back to earth.

Hits hard enough to shatter small planets.

Impressive feat again.

Well I still think it will come into effect. Superman used skill in his fights with Zod, he will probably use it against someone as powerful as Thor. So, that skill + his speed advantage will allow him to do this to Thor:

Well then, let's add skill into this. How about I show Thor thrashing the Warriors 3 using skill, and not fighting like his typical brutish self. The Warriors 3 of extremely skilled using weapons, and Thor took them all out easily. Parring there blows, blocking with his arm, and attacking before the could.

That Doomsday feat also doesn't show much. All I see is Superman moving around Doomsday hitting him, which seems to be doing nothing. Speed feat? Yes. Fighting skill feat? Hardly.

And since we agree on the whole Thor = Striking Power, Superman = Physical Strength this could very well happen:

Yes I said Superman may have more physical strength, but that doesn't mean he's far off from Thor, I mean there pretty close in my opinion. I am more than certain Thor would break that grip, I mean first of all the guy literally fought the Midgard Serpent before, and I believe it coiled it self around him and he broke it's grip. This isn't going to be something hard for him to do. I mean currently in Thor God Of Thunder 19, Thor lifted the largest mountain in Jountehiem with ease, and when I see ease I mean it. He is not struggling or nothing, and is casually talking while holding it.

You know I can get into this in even more depth, because I am more than certain Thor can break Superman's grip, but here is an easier way out. Let's go back to when Thor fought Hercules in "Blood and Thunder". Here we have two beings with near equal physical stats, but one is the superior fighter. (Hercules). Hercules being the superior fighter gets Thor in a lock kind of similar to the one Superman has Flash in, and Thor can't break out of it. Don't get the wrong idea that Superman can because he is superior to Hercules in strength cause that's not why Thor couldn't break out. It was because there physical stats were so close, and Hercules lock on Thor was so good, Thor couldn't break out. I mean if you and me have the same physical stats, and you are the superior fighter and get me in a lock, i'm not going to escape since the strength is too close, so the lock is going to be unlockable. So you know all Thor has to do?

Call down his favorite element.

It will be nice to see Superman squirm in pain like Hercules did.

Also a simple lightning strike like that made quite the crater.

And if you think Thor won't use it, here is what he has to say against a being who focus's mostly on his strength.

In Martian Manhunter #34, we saw that the beams can also transport himself or others through time and space.

Alright, i'll give you that.

Again, "speedblitz", Superman can very well dodge lightning, he even sees it in slow motion:

So Superman is going to dodge lightning that can literally cover the moon, heck the has made planet wide storms. No where is safe unless he leaves the planet.

Superman can tank a good amount of Thor's lightning regardless, as he was able to stop a every powerful lightning user, that had taken out the whole league including Wonder Woman:

Correct me if i'm wrong, but that guy was a magic user am I not wrong? I seen someone post that before as Superman overcoming magic, not lightning, but whatever, there is nothing there to show his lightning is superior to Thor's. I mean if Thor was able to strike the Justice League with a lightning bolt, i'm pretty sure they would be knocked out too. Even Superman.

I mean when Thor got annoyed of Hulk, he hit him with a lightning bolt, and he was finished. Yes it was a temporal knockout, but it still shows just how powerful a lightning bolt from Thor can be.'

I mean I think your underestimating the God Of Thunder's lightning. It's extremely powerful, and Superman can only take a couple shots, if Thor is serious (which he is since morals are off) even less. Hyperion was struck by a casual lightning bolt, and look how much pain it caused him.

I think I am done here.

#63 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

When I said "Blood &Thunder", I made a mistake, it was "Blood Oath", but yeah since you want, we can open voting after your post.

@allstarsuperman

#64 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@New_World_Order: Okay, nice post btw, I'll do mine tomorrow I think, if not for sure on Sunday.

#65 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#66 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#67 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio
#68 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#69 Posted by marvel_boy2241 (2468 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman Dude I've only been here enough to see you tell jokes. I am very...surprised. This is a great debate to say the least...

#70 Edited by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio
#71 Posted by jaxthejester_2014 (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Very well done, gentlemen.

#72 Edited by marvel_boy2241 (2468 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman Eh...Not that time when you posted that Ben Affleck gif. :D How about me? Am I funny?

#73 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvel_boy2241: honestly idk yet, I haven't seen you around that much. Oh wait, that one time where you and Mrdecepticonleader were arguing was kinda funny, lol.

#74 Posted by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio
#75 Edited by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

@New_World_Order:

I see. PlS or not, i think we both know Thor strikes harder than Superman with Mjolnir, so if Superman can destroy a construct whether it be easily or not, Thor can definitely replicate that.

Agreed.

Agreed, although he can strike Superman.

He can definitely tag Superman, its just Superman will be able to to tag Thor more so to make up for the less striking power.

Really now? A strike that send an AMPED Hulk flying into space, and than crashing on the other side of the planet isn't going to hurt Superman badly? I find that hard to believe. It's going to hurt the hell out of Superman, is going to do extreme amounts of damage. The only reason why Hulk wasn't KO'ed.is because the hammer amped him, including his durability. In Fear Itself, Nul Hulk was never Ko'ed, that's how durable he was. Just because he wasn't badly hurt or KO'ed, doesn't mean Superman will be. The man of steel is going to be in much pain after that. To be honest, I wouldn't be suprised if an attack like that left Superman near unconscious, and Thor would just have to finish the fight with a downward smash.

Honestly I have never read Fear Itself, I haven't even heard of Nul Hulk tbh. I guess that was a really solid hit, but I believe Superman can handle it at least once.

Now this is impressive seeing as how durable Orion is. Thor has made Odin call out in pain in one strike. I think my feat is a lot more impressive. Just shows you exactly why I believe Thor hits harder than anyone else on his level.

Yes Thor does have striking power, but if Superman can make Orion bleed with a single punch, he could to the same to Thor, in at least a few punches.

One of the best feats I've ever seen of Superman, as punching someone in space is not easy at all, and he hit her all the way back to earth.

All 93 million miles.

Well then, let's add skill into this. How about I show Thor thrashing the Warriors 3 using skill, and not fighting like his typical brutish self. The Warriors 3 of extremely skilled using weapons, and Thor took them all out easily. Parring there blows, blocking with his arm, and attacking before the could.

Now that's honestly the best I have ever seen of Thor's skill before. But he is only fighting 2 people I believe. I still think Superman has the solid advantage in skill.

"Superman learned boxing techniques from Wildcat, fighting techniques from Mongul, melee techniques from Wonder Woman, and (advanced) martial arts techniques from Batman. He also knows two ancient Kryptonian disciplines named Torquasm Vo and Torquasm Rao, that prevent physical and mental domination."

Superman beats a Kryptonian military officer in H2H (1-2), Superman speedkicks Zod and it appears a headbutt as well (3), Beats down fodder will being depowered, it shows some agility and skill, kicks to the face, jumping over a guy, dodging bullets, etc.

Superman beats Zod pretty regularly, and Zod is not shabby in H2H at all. In fact a Zod that depowered himself on purpose was able to take down Brainiac:

That Doomsday feat also doesn't show much. All I see is Superman moving around Doomsday hitting him, which seems to be doing nothing. Speed feat? Yes. Fighting skill feat? Hardly.

Yeah, well here's a better one with Mongul

Thor lifted the largest mountain in Jountehiem with ease, and when I see ease I mean it. He is not struggling or nothing, and is casually talking while holding it.

While a mountain is big, its just a mountain, shouldn't be really anything to people of this tier.

Let's go back to when Thor fought Hercules in "Blood and Thunder". Here we have two beings with near equal physical stats, but one is the superior fighter. (Hercules). Hercules being the superior fighter gets Thor in a lock kind of similar to the one Superman has Flash in, and Thor can't break out of it. Don't get the wrong idea that Superman can because he is superior to Hercules in strength cause that's not why Thor couldn't break out. It was because there physical stats were so close, and Hercules lock on Thor was so good, Thor couldn't break out. I mean if you and me have the same physical stats, and you are the superior fighter and get me in a lock, i'm not going to escape since the strength is too close, so the lock is going to be unlockable. So you know all Thor has to do?Call down his favorite element.

Now that's impressive, it was exactly the point that needed to beat what I showed, and yeah the lightning would put a hurting on Superman, if it made contact. I already showed Superman saying that he see's lightning in slow motion though. As more strength, I actually think Superman has a pretty big strength gape with Thor and Herc, but whatever.

So Superman is going to dodge lightning that can literally cover the moon, heck the has made planet wide storms. No where is safe unless he leaves the planet.

Superman can weave between lightning bolts, even if you made a moon sized bolt, honestly superman should be able to fly around it. I mean flying to Saturn in 4 minutes proves that he could easily cross a moons distance near instantaneously

Correct me if i'm wrong, but that guy was a magic user am I not wrong? I seen someone post that before as Superman overcoming magic, not lightning, but whatever, there is nothing there to show his lightning is superior to Thor's. I mean if Thor was able to strike the Justice League with a lightning bolt, i'm pretty sure they would be knocked out too. Even Superman.

Well, He was a magician guy, but if the guy's lightning was turning WW to clay, taking over GL constructs, and pushing the whole League back with physical force, it should be enough to put his lightning above or at least equal to Thor's. And Superman powered through it. Here comes a little ABC logic though, Wonder Woman has tanked point black lightning bolts from Nekron the god of death without even being phased, so this magician's lightning must be pretty good I'd say.

I mean when Thor got annoyed of Hulk, he hit him with a lightning bolt, and he was finished. Yes it was a temporal knockout, but it still shows just how powerful a lightning bolt from Thor can be.

I have seen you argue that before though, and it seems that's a very high end feat for Thor's lightning, has I have seen other scans of Hulk tanking it for a bit.

I mean I think your underestimating the God Of Thunder's lightning. It's extremely powerful, and Superman can only take a couple shots, if Thor is serious (which he is since morals are off) even less. Hyperion was struck by a casual lightning bolt, and look how much pain it caused him.

I don't think I am underestimating it, its just Superman's durability + determination should be enough to take several good hits. Honestly I have no idea of Hyperion's power level and feats.

I still see Superman winning, he has the speed and skill necessary for the win. Now not to low ball Thor but I saw this scan showing that if Thor is hit hard enough he will drop his hammer:

I am fairly sure that Thor's striking power is a lot less without Mjolnir, So if Superman does this:

Thor's gonna be in for a world of hurt. Superman could keep him on the defensive at close range to keep him from lightning spamming.

I think I am done here.

Okay, go ahead and call for votes, good match.

#77 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio
#78 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: Alright. Good luck, and to be honest this was probably one, if not that best debate I've ever had on this Vine.

#80 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8787 posts) - - Show Bio
#81 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#82 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio
#83 Edited by deaditegonzo (3690 posts) - - Show Bio

I wasnt invited to vote, but out of curiosity, is this more about "form" (the debaters form in the debate) or "effectiveness" (the debater convinced you their character won)?

#84 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman: @New_World_Order:

I'm gonna call this one a tie, nicely done you two.

Thanks !

I wasnt invited to vote, but out of curiosity, is this more about "form" (the debaters form in the debate) or "effectiveness" (the debater convinced you their character won)?

  1. Anyone can vote, I just called out the people who commented or asked in this thread.
  2. I would say both will apply, but mostly the effectiveness on how they express there character defeats the other.
#85 Posted by Beware_My_Power (3204 posts) - - Show Bio

Very well done, you two. I'm still split, for the most part. But is it counts for anything, my friend votes thor xD

#87 Posted by reaverlation (17115 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I'm undecisive right now as it was close.Ima read through this again though to make a choice :)

#88 Posted by ZeroPlus (2340 posts) - - Show Bio
#89 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio
#91 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio
#92 Edited by DeathandGrim (2097 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't wanna be the c-c-c-c-combo breaker but I'm going to have to vote for ASS... err... @allstarsuperman

I didn't see much reason to believe Superman would be hit from Range at any point during this match and it was shown he can dodge lightning. And I'm certain that Thor wouldn't douse the planet to hit Supes.

I didn't see a very strong counter to Supes being able to dodge a majority of Thor's CQC. Yes it's feasible Supes will be hit maybe once or twice, but they both have extremely high durability so that one hit isn't a down for the count type thing, and Supes is FAR FAR faster and IMO better trained. I see Superman losing a couple ribs even, but when he's determined, Superman doesn't go down easy. I see supes landing more hits and in turn putting out more damage. And since there's not much one can do to escape CQC with Big Boy Blue once it's initiated I don't see Thor using the lightning that's been stated that he can dodge anyway.

Not to mention the battlefield advantage is on Supes considering he's been to Gotham more than a couple times. Small advantage and possibly irrelevant but, its there.

Factoring in that they both have basic knowledge of each other here's the thought process. Superman knows thats the GOD OF THUNDER and has some Magic ability to his name. He's gonna take caution but at the same time, he's thinking this guy can take a hit, and he'll be gunning for him like he was Mongul, Darkseid, etc. Thor will know about Superman's energy projection, speed, and strength. And possibly want to go hammer time as he usually does, I mean he's got it, flaunt it.

The way I see it boiling down to is a straight up melee brawl with Thor using Mjolnir. He's not getting away from Superman long enough to use lightning, Superman is gonna keep coming. And Thor has a history of being routinely outpaced in CQC by even street levels, until he's "had enough" and goes all out. But the thing is SUPERMAN HURTS so it's very possible that that point may not be reached.

Verdict: Superman.

Good debate. Well done debate, I should be sleeping.

#93 Edited by Experio (17270 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes to New_World_Order. In a tough call.

The use of Thor's versatility and Mjolnir had me convinced, Supermans speed had choices which is to either blitz were Thor would burst the area with lightning to prevent damage from being laid on him, or kick Mjolnir away were it would inevitably return and cause more more damage to Supes at self guidance seeing as physical interaction won't be an option. Clark can see lightning in slow motion,but will be seeing the hammer. It was a worthy counter considering all the variables put on the table. Great debate.

#94 Posted by marvel_boy2241 (2468 posts) - - Show Bio

I like New_World_Order's scans. I mean they were pretty awesome. So, I gotta go with him. But don't get me wrong *holds hands up in defense* they both did really good.

#95 Posted by tomlikesfries (4914 posts) - - Show Bio

You both did a pretty great job. Call me biased if I was slightly favoring Superman throughout due to personal preference, but I do believe @allstarsuperman won this. I think he nicely countered most of NWO's arguments with good use of Superman's speed and strength. I did disagree with a few things argued by the both of you though. Among them was the fact that you were putting Thor's striking power above Kal. While the Mjolnir greatly amps Odinson's striking power, strength, with the help of speed, does very much equal striking power, and, as agreed by the both of you, Superman outclassed Thor in both those factors.

In conclusion, I think you both did a pretty fantastic job, but certain factors came into play when I decided to side with ASS. First off, like I've already said, although NWO did amazing in showcasing Thor's powers, I disagreed with him stating how Odinson was more versatile and had better striking power and ASS countered those pretty well by showcasing Superman's much superior strength and speed and, like I mentioned, those do equal striking power in my opinion. Secondly, you mentioned Thor's lightning. Again, NWO showcased its power level amazingly, but ASS countered that pretty well too, so he took this one in my opinion.

Sorry @New_World_Order, I usually side with you on debates, especially when you're using Thor, which you're so well versed in, but I think AllStarSuperman had this one.

#96 Edited by Frozen (16587 posts) - - Show Bio

I am voting for New World Order.

#97 Edited by dondave (38906 posts) - - Show Bio
#98 Posted by Jacthripper (6016 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote NWO I feel that he made a more compelling argument

#99 Posted by dondave (38906 posts) - - Show Bio

@New_World_Order: is the scan with Thor and Drax and the Supermova from an Infinity Crusade tie-in?

#100 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio