CAV: Allison S & Sydney S (FS) VS The Winchesters (P52)

Allison Sekemoto & Sydney Sage

Represented By - Funsiized:

VS

Sam & Dean Winchester

Represented By - Pope052:

Location:

Conditions:

• Feats for Sam & Dean are up to and including those from Season 7.
• Feats for Allison & Sydney can be used from throughout the series, mostly.
• Both sides have standard knowledge on one another.
• Prep & Equipment will be exhibited as we go along, and both teams have access to anything as long as they can obtain and carry it.
• Both sides are moral-less and blood lusted. Their fighting and intelligence standards aren't hindered in any way, they're just very willing to kill.
• Win by Death, or KO.

Challenge A Viner Rules:

• Do not start extra illegal arguments, general opinions, post unnecessary scans/videos or interfere in the debate itself in any way. If you wish to inform either of us on anything important or correct us on a point, send us a private message.
• If any of the above is excessively broken, we may request a mod to assist.
• It's appreciated if there's no early judgments are made on the outcome of the battle, one should always wait and witness the debating quality and abilities of everyone involved before jumping to early conclusions.
• Give at least one reason for a vote, and the scoring will be set to ten but may be changed.
• Regular posting/commenting is fine.
• As always, may the best man win.

@funsiized

tag for votes

its supernatural ,

Extra terestrial

lalala

Looks cool

@pope052: Post will be up in a lil.

@pope052: Okay, This ought to be fun.

Sydney Sage

An Ex-Alchemist in the Vampire academy Universe, she turned rouge when she realized that the faiths and convictions she had been taught her entire life were basically wrong. Oh and there is the love affair with the Vampire which completely goes against the Alchemist belief. As an Alchemist(a secret organization set on Protecting the knowledge of vampires existence from the world) She was excellent. She was orderly to an OCD Level, organized and efficient. She knows multiple languages, holds an eidetic memory and a strong conviction for the right thing. That and being a which

The alchemist Side of her allows her an acute knowledge of the entire Periodic Table, and access to said chemicals along with the knowledge of how to use them. she can make an Acid that dissolves bodies in a few seconds, or Metal in the same amount of time. Along with basically everything else on that table.

She has access to a plethora of spells. The likes of which include Pyrokenisis, unnoticeable Spells, Light transmutation, Equilibrium Distortion, Blinding, Shielding, Force push and a small chihuahua sized Demon within a chihuahua sized gem dragon called a Calistanna. it can't really do much besides Screech in an extremely annoying way and chew on legs but every little thing counts.

Also, according to Adrian, Shes a quick study in Bed(Wink wink)

Allison Sekemoto

Allie used to be a mortal but was turned by Kanin when she is attacked by the rabids. She is offered a choice and she chooses to live (technically). The sire, Kanin stays with Allie for the first few months, teaching her how to be a Vampire. At first she faces some problems as she wants her old life back but Kanin convinces her that it is for the best if she leaves them behind. He says "You will always be a monster - there is no turning back from that. But what kind of monster you become is entirely up to you"

Now, to know just how bad ass Allison is, you must know the kind of world she lives in and the enemies that she faces. She lives in a Post Apocalyptic World, dominated by not only Vampires, but Mutated vampires as well, as a result of the "Red lung virus" While vampires themselves are insanely strong and fast, I'll talk about Rabids. Rabids are insanely fast, as they are mutated vampires, they have lost their minds and been driven into a insane lust for the the "Thirst" or the need to suck blood that every sane vampire keeps down. They are capable of Jumping from car to car, and nearly crushing each one with little to no effort, Ripped a Car door off it's hinges again, with Zero effort. it's grip has been described as "Steel cold" and "Unbreakable" to Humans.

"something pale and terrible rose from the grass behind Rat, all Limbs and claws and shining teeth. Before he knew what was happening it yanked him off his feet. i didn't even have time to shout before he vanished into the weeds and darkness with a yelp...Then he began to Scream."

-Alli meets Rabids as a human. It blitzes her and her friends

"i stood slowly, carefully, my mouth going dry. 'blood' i murmured, backing away, ' Rabids can smell Blood if they are close enough. We have to go n-'

it leaped atop the car with a howl, lashing out at the space i'd been a moment before, ripping through metal with it's claws. Stick yelled and dove away, skittering behind me, as the thing atop the car gave a chilling wail and looked right at us."

-Rabids tearing through metal.

Next, i'll move onto Vampires, yea, know the Rabids? HAH Child's play, There are 3 types of vampires, type 1, type 2, type 3-type 1's are called masters, and they sire Type 2's. And type 2's sire Type 3's , but Type 3's always create Rabids when they attempt to turn another. To put it bluntly, As the number lowers, the Vamp gets stronger, a Type 2 would waste a Type 3 and a master could waste a type 2 unless the Type 2 had trained sufficiently And a type 3 could Take down 3 or 4 Rabids at once with little to no effort.

So we have established 1(Masters)>2>3>>Rabids Now, moving on

Allison initially believed she was a Type 2, but by the end of the Series, we find out that she is a Master.

She has a Katana and her trench coat.

Intial Prep

Really, It's all on Sydney in this stage. shes the Brains here. Allisons not stupid, simply not a genius like Sydney. So, building around that.

Sydney prepares Her chemicals and Spells. Actually, considering she has Cases of both under her bad at all times.... she goes and grabs them. then it's really simply planning the best way to go about this.

Battle

When the Match starts, Sydney Casting and Unnoticeable spell, This keeps her unnoticeable to others until she makes eye contact OR if Someone looks Very hard for her, specifically for her. Just knowing shes there will not cut it unfortunately. I.E

"When I reached the detainee living floor however, the texting guard came walking down the hall when he heard the elevator and saw no one come out. I pressed against the wall again, Frozen and looking down as he passed me. He stopped a few feet away from me and stared at the elevator with a frown while i held my breath. Even if he didn't make eye contact, my spell had to be on it's last leg. After several agonizing Second, he finally shrugged and returned to his post. I moved past him, mercifully unnoticed, and finally made it back to my room." -Silver shadows Pg 215

now, this is typically useless in this kind of match, if Sydney didn't have a little help from our resident Snarling Vampire like Allie, it's her job to divert your Attention. and Divert she does. She can close the distance in a single leap-

"My demon was intrigued by Jackals Suggested approach, anything to get us into the house sooner, but the Master vampire suddenly leaped the Twenty foot trench like it was a crack in the sidewalk, landing gracefully on the other side without impaling himself on the spikes. Grasping the thick iron bars in front of the window, he pulled them apart with as much effort as bending a wire and slid through the opening. Jackal Snorted. 'Or you could do that I suppose'. We followed Kanin into the house, Jumping over the trench..."- The Forever Song Pg 49

~there she covers 20ft in a casual leap after Kanin.

-and basically go as mad ash she can on Sam and Dean. then it's a matter of Sydney supporting her with her spells, alone, Allison was capable of Slaughtering a group of Men.

"i waited until the barkeep vanished through the door, letting it swing shut behind him, before i turned to my assailant. He leered at me, the stench of alcohol coming off him in waves. "that's right, little girl. you want some of this, Don'cha?" behind us, a few more patrons were starting to get up; either they wanted in on the fun or thought they could take me together. The rest watched behind their tankards, tense and Wary, Smelling of Fear. "Come on then Bi***" Said the man beside me, and grabbed my other arm, his face mean and eager, "Let's do this, i can go all night" I smiled "Can you now?" i said quietly, And lunged at him with a roar, sinking my Fangs into his throat....When the Barkeep returned, i was already gone. he would find the bodies-the ones stupid enough to fight- Laying where they had fallen, a couple in pieces, but most of them still alive."

And she was able to Take the arm off of Sarren- A Completely and utterly batSh**Crazy Vamp, that was able to to this to A Master vamp and his Guards-

"finally the guard gave an exasperated huff and moved to take his arm. Sarren spun with blinding speed, his free hand whipping up faster than thought, slashing across the guards neck. the Vampire let out a startled Gurgle and then his head tumbles backwards in a spray of blood, held in place by a single flap of skin.

Still clutching his think, bright dagger, Sarren grabbed the guards cross bow arm and turned, pointing the weapon across the room. there was the snap of the bolt releasing, and the shaft buried itself in Salazars Chest just as the prince was spinning around. this all happened in the space of a blink, Salazar gave a strangled cry and collapsed clutching his chest, Clawing at the desk to keep himself upright. the other guards roared with fury and lunged to attack, Drawing their blades as they rushed forward. the guard closest to Sarren pulled his sword and slashed at him in the same motion, but Sarren ducked the blow, stepped in close, and shoved his dagger under the guards chin, into his brain.

Yanking it out he spun to face the remaining Two guards, a Maniacal grin on his face a they rushed forward. With a howl, Jackal rushed forward into the fray, Grabbing a dead guards sword as he charged Sarren.

I spun on Zeke. 'Stay Down!' i hissed and Lunged forward too. But my goal wasn't Sarren, first i ducked and threw myself over the first dead guard, Grabbing my Katana from his Dead grip. a familiar cry made my Blood run cold, i whirled just in time to see Jackal fall, clutching the hilt of the blade in his chest as Sarren shoved him back.

Sarren looked at me 'Hello little bird i believe we have unfinished business you and i' He smiled "Run the End draws near and the sun will soon Set for all your kind. How long can you Evade the dark i wonder?"

'Zeke!' i hissed, still keeping my Gaze on Sarren knowing how fast he could move, How he could simply be RIGHT THERE with no warning at all.

'well this is quite the dilemma' Said Sarren 'who should i kill first? Shall i kill the Prince's little bird in front of him? or shall i strip the Human of every Strip of flesh, snap every bone, Savor every Scream, before i tear out his heart?' He looked at me 'would you like that little bird? OR..would you like to watch..?'

My fear Vanished, The thought of Zeke at the Mercy of this mad man awoke a savage almost desperate fury in me, i acted without thinking, Baring my fangs i lunged at Sarren with a roar slashing at his neck. Sarren Blocked the strike, reached in and grabbed my throat, spinning me around. Twisting my sword arm Behind my back"

So Yeah, even with Loads of Vampires in the building and a Master vamp, Sarren was able to practically speed blitz them all with little to no effort shown and later in the book Allie Fights him again-

"Before i could answer, he lunged, coming at me fast. i just managed to dodge his first swing, feeling the pipe miss my head by centimeters, and slashed upwards with my katana. i felt the very tip bite into something, saw Sarren Jerk back and stumble to a halt, one hand going to his face.

I retreated, raising my weapon, waiting for his next move, Sarren pulled his hand down, looking at the blood on his fingers in amused surprise. More blood welled from a deep Gash across his cheek and ran down is chin, and i blinked in shock"

Logically, She couldn't really beat Sarren in a strait up fight. Sarren is kind of The strongest Vampire in the series, even stronger than Kanin, a Master Vamp around 800 y/o. even when she beats him at the end of the series, he is solidly handing her her ass. but the fact that she wounded him is a Good enough feat, especially considering she is facing Sam and Dean here, not a Vampire with superior Reactions to either of them.

So yeah, Allisons Pure physical superiority an Sydneys Tactical wit with her Magic, gives me the win.

@funsiized:

Interesting opener mate, I can say that this is going to be a rough fight even for Sam & Dean - but even though Allison is by far their physical superior I will insist that the Winchesters still have enough brawn, brains, skill and experience to pull this one off. As far as character introductions go, Sam & Dean are two brothers that hunt almost any kind of supernatural entity you can think of, and they're ridiculously good at it by peak human standards. I know you're already well aware of this - so it's really only for reader's sake since not everybody watches or is knowledgeable on Supernatural.

The Winchesters have handled vampires and witches before, on top of numerous other entities/creatures who are more often much stronger. Albeit none of the Supernatural vampires/witches I have seen necessarily compare to Allison or Sydney, but since they're aware of that they will prepare more effectively and the standard knowledge is more efficient to them than to the girls. Anyway, considering how Sam & Dean consistently beat opponents that are well above them in physical aspects (countless demons, creatures, spirits, Zachariah, the three Horsemen, Lucifer, and so much more) - I don't see why the girls should be any big surprise to them. Anyway, i'll finish up on the overview and get straight to debate here - starting on what they'll be using for basics:

Basic Equipment/Gear:

• Both are simply in their standard clothing, for example:

• Loaded sawed-off shotguns for both w/ reasonable back up ammo.
• Sam has a standard SD9 VE handgun & Dean has his trademark Colt 1911 also w/ reasonable back up ammo.
• Sam has Ruby's Knife, Dean gets an Angel Blade and both get a small wooden stake for melee weapons.
• They get a bottle this size containing a half/half mixture of Dead Man's Blood and Vamptonite.
• Using another same sized bottle, they also each get a molotov of Holy Oil.
• All ammunition consists of silver bullets.
• The Impala is parked somewhere in the lot to their knowledge, packed with more weapons and gear that they could plausibly get their hands on.

That's mostly what their gear and weaponry consist of and i'll be using advanced equipment (that they could obtain) when needed. But i'll explain a couple of things, Vamptonite firstly, it's the most effectively plausible ways of taking out a vampire. By combining a mixture of Leviathan's corn syrup and human blood, a side effect is that it's extremely poisonous against vampires and kills them in the moment it enters their bloodstream. I see this as being one of the most viable ways Allison will go down, since it's a specific that she likely can't counter:

Moreover, Dead Man's Blood is well - blood extracted from a dead body. It's very effective against vampires and if their body comes into contact with it, they become paralyzed and lose all of their essential strength. Although it does wear off, it shouldn't matter here since both Sam and Dean are going to take on any chance they get to dispose of Allison in a vulnerable state. The Holy Oil is an effective fire used against angels - however I can see the fire effects at least being able to burn into Allison's skin, and lastly the silver bullets are the type of ammunition mostly attune to damaging vampires.

I know that you said Dead Man's Blood and silver bullets don't really affect her, I don't doubt that but i'd ask for solid proof if you don't mind. Otherwise, she can and will be killed by the Vamptonite - or at the very least endure a severe paralysis episode if she's lucky. Thus, this would granting Sam or Dean the easy opportunity to behead her or stab her in the heart with a wooden stake - while one or the other is fighting Sydney. Obviously, they're not going to try run up and throw the mixture at Allison - they'll play it smart and drizzle it on their bullets and melee weapons. But of course, I acknowledge that Allison is seemingly faster than your average Supernatural vampire, however i'd like to go over some of the things you said in regards to just that:

Next, i'll move onto Vampires, yea, know the Rabids? HAH Child's play, There are 3 types of vampires, type 1, type 2, type 3-type 1's are called masters, and they sire Type 2's. And type 2's sire Type 3's , but Type 3's always create Rabids when they attempt to turn another. To put it bluntly, As the number lowers, the Vamp gets stronger, a Type 2 would waste a Type 3 and a master could waste a type 2 unless the Type 2 had trained sufficiently And a type 3 could Take down 3 or 4 Rabids at once with little to no effort.

So we have established 1(Masters)>2>3>>Rabids Now, moving on

I'm sensing slight ABC Logic right here, is there any evidence to say that the ranking of vampires directly proportional to all of their physical attributes? I trust you do have some, but otherwise I don't see how a higher level of vampire would label them better at everything than the vampire a level below them - unless you're able to show and validate that, then I will concede. So yeah, I can't buy the argument that Allison is able to also tear off car doors just because she's a higher level than a Rabid, unless there's either feats or evidence that their attributes are parallel to their level.

Even if Allison is significantly physically stronger to a Rabid by feats, Sam and Dean have taken plenty of hits from beings possessing super strength. There's literally over a hundred feats of them tanking hits from supernatural beings - but the ones I can best place my mind on is Sam taking a full on blow from Jake Talley, one of Azazel's psychics who's gift was super-human strength, capable of doing things comparable to the Rabids from what I recall.

He plowed Sam through a fence and struck him a couple of more times, Sam was able to carry on and manage to beat Jake throughout the use of his tough endurance and superior skill - despite Jake being from the military himself and was stationed in Afghanistan before he was warped here:

I can't recall anything as good as that for Sam off the top of my head, but more feats for everything will come as I make more posts. As for Dean, he was able to take a rough beat down from Castiel, a being who is on another level in physicality by level and by several feats:

On top of that, he wasn't even knocked out after taking a plethora of hits from Lucifer:

So even by those feats alone Dean is definitely capable of tanking hits at least initially from Allison - Sam should be able too as well. Like I said, I will bring up more feats in terms of the other beings they've been enduring beat downs from for seasons after each feat you bring up for Allison, but overall i'd say Dean will be able to survive an up close and personal encounter with Allison, the katana will be trouble, but if they're close together he could just shoot it out of her hands and then blast her with the Vamptonite coated bullets and she'll be out like a light - maybe even extra damage will be received since the bullets are silver.

~there she covers 20ft in a casual leap after Kanin.

All it said was that she jumped over the trench, it didn't say how easy it was - nor that she equally replicated Kanin's jump.

-and basically go as mad ash she can on Sam and Dean. then it's a matter of Sydney supporting her with her spells, alone, Allison was capable of Slaughtering a group of Men.

Those men are seemingly featless and it read "laying where they had fallen, a couple in pieces, but most of them still alive", so she didn't slaughter them all. Perhaps unintentionally, but they were a group of cannon fodder - a feat even Sam and Dean could easily replicate at a blood lusted state.

And she was able to Take the arm off of Sarren- A Completely and utterly batSh**Crazy Vamp, that was able to to this to A Master vamp and his Guards-

So she was able to take the arm off of him, a decent strength feat but it didn't note on her using any significant speed to do that - unless I misread it. But anyway, while Allison may be faster than an average Supernatural vampire, but I don't see her being too fast for Sam & Dean to handle as her feats don't really speak too loudly - but i'll wait to see if you can maybe fill in any more. It's time to focus on Sydney more now, since I have been giving Allison too much attention, though I would see her as the bigger threat, but regardless let's continue.

In terms of using her magic abilities, how effectively and what feats does she have to support their use in a fight? The feat you posted for her invisibility type of spell was good - but she was only using that to hide and it didn't seem to be any fighting instance either. Since Sam & Dean have prior knowledge on her magic, they'll know more or less what type of spells to expect, but what's stopping them from one of them putting a bullet in her brain anyway? I'll await to see more of her feats - but my initial thoughts based on your post, makes me think of her as a glass cannon. Of course I could be wrong though, you'll need to prove that, Sam & Dean also know of a specific spell used to kill witches too, however it does require time and the right ingredients to do.

Alright, I guess i'll leave it at this for now, I didn't go into any detail but I will in my next post or whenever it needs to be done, but that'll depend on what you have to say, your move mate ;)

me too!!!

@pope052: Alright, not quite where to start here, but i'll try my best. I'll try to cover everything, and as a result, prepare to read....a lot. Also, Passages are now going in spoiler blocks

I know that you said Dead Man's Blood and silver bullets don't really affect her, I don't doubt that but i'd ask for solid proof if you don't mind. Otherwise, she can and will be killed by the Vamptonite - or at the very least endure a severe paralysis episode if she's lucky. Thus, this would granting Sam or Dean the easy opportunity to behead her or stab her in the heart with a wooden stake

Dead Mans blood simply doesn't sate their hunger, but they can drink it just fine. As for Silver, Allison's favorite little token is a Silver Cross from Zeke. She wears it all the time. So, "Vamptonite" is not going to work, as we can tell, the vampires here and there are not the same save an allergy to wood and the Sun.

As for the fact of the bullets, We are again, assuming Same and Dean have the chance to fire(Granted, they probably do) but Allison has functioned after getting shot Six times point blank, Even going so far as to be another vampire in a fight. I Think she will be fine.

The Holy Oil is an effective fire used against angels - however I can see the fire effects at least being able to burn into Allison's skin

Holy oil must be ignited, not exactly giving you that kind of time. Besides, assuming you can Ignite it, Sydney can control Flames(Pyrokenisis, remember?)

I'm sensing slight ABC Logic right here, is there any evidence to say that the ranking of vampires directly proportional to all of their physical attributes? I trust you do have some, but otherwise I don't see how a higher level of vampire would label them better at everything than the vampire a level below them - unless you're able to show and validate that, then I will concede. So yeah, I can't buy the argument that Allison is able to also tear off car doors just because she's a higher level than a Rabid, unless there's either feats or evidence that their attributes are parallel to their level.

That's where things get tricky. I wrote that in a General Sense, Power levels fluctuate. I used that "ABC Logic" to just make things easier on everybody. There is no Real Type-3 even really shown in the series. But sure, I can provide some things to show Allison is clearly stronger than your average Rabid(and even a super charged one). And, since I'm so nice, I'll put in the entire passage. Also, please remember, Allison is a Master.

It shows Hew completely decimating a large group of rabids, and then she ends up fighting a Large, Seven foot Goliath that was able to punch through cars. While things get dicey at first, she ends up beating it, showing speed, Durability, Healing factor and Yes, shes stronger than a Rabid.

there are more Passages of her fighting through Hordes of Rabids, Alone, with others. To be honest, the only flaw in my logic is that Rabids can vary from horrifying monsters that can take on a vampire to Fodder that can be taken down by a single gun shot, when they can take a few

Shortly after(like literally the next paragraph) We are given a strong demonstration of the Regeneration factor that Allie also brings to the party.

And again, the next paragraph over, we are given a look through a Nearly Frenzied Allies eyes as she beholds Kanin. the vampiric part of her was willing to fight Jackal, a Type-2 blood brother of hers who was already stronger than her, but when it sensed Kanin it completely and utterly lost hope.

Granted, Kanin is a Master who has been alive for a very long time, but the point remains the same. a Type two like Jakal(around a hundred or so years old) is nothing to Kanin even on a completely primal sense.

Even if Allison is significantly physically stronger to a Rabid by feats, Sam and Dean have taken plenty of hits from beings possessing super strength. There's literally over a hundred feats of them tanking hits from supernatural beings - but the ones I can best place my mind on is Sam taking a full on blow from Jake Talley, one of Azazel's psychics who's gift was super-human strength, capable of doing things comparable to the Rabids from what I recall.

And logically, neither of them should be alive. But I wont argue that. What I will argue is the fact that None of them simply cut the Winchesters in half. Allison has completely cut through a Tire and I have shown plenty of passages with her cutting through bodies.

I can't recall anything as good as that for Sam off the top of my head, but more feats for everything will come as I make more posts. As for Dean, he was able to take a rough beat down from Castiel, a being who is on another level in physicality by level and by several feats:

If you believe by any standard the Cass would actually Hurt dean, then we would have a problem. But i see your point. He can take Punch...cool, not helpful, but cool.

On top of that, he wasn't even knocked out after taking a plethora of hits from Lucifer:

Again, not really helpful, but cool. Ignoring the fact that Lucifer was literally playing with him. He could have literally snapped his fingers, but its whateve.

but overall i'd say Dean will be able to survive an up close and personal encounter with Allison, the katana will be trouble, but if they're close together he could just shoot it out of her hands and then blast her with the Vamptonite coated bullets and she'll be out like a light - maybe even extra damage will be received since the bullets are silver.

I disagree. The fact that the were taking those beatings is proof enough. Also, you are still making the flawed assumption that what harms your Supernatural vampires will harm Allison. Nope.

All it said was that she jumped over the trench, it didn't say how easy it was - nor that she equally replicated Kanin's jump.

Neither did it mention that she strained. The point is, in a single leap she jumped Twenty feet. the only thing it mentions( that i left out due to laziness) is the fact that she "was careful to avoid the spikes on the other end". you can't assume she didn't make the jump as casually. She did not I assume, but I did not state that. I said she casually jumped it. It was not hard. it was not a real effort. I believe that is the definition of casual. I only put in Kanins part to show that the trench was 20ft.

Those men are seemingly featless and it read "laying where they had fallen, a couple in pieces, but most of them still alive", so she didn't slaughter them all. Perhaps unintentionally, but they were a group of cannon fodder - a feat even Sam and Dean could easily replicate at a blood lusted state.

She didn't slaughter them all cause she has morals...that's about it. Didn't say Sam or Dean could not replicate it, what i will say is that Sam and Dean are not a small 5ft Asian girl. but thank you for making another point. "In a blood lusted state". So A Morals on Allison can already match the Bloodlusted Winchesters. Wonder how a Bloodlusted Allison will fare...

So she was able to take the arm off of him, a decent strength feat but it didn't note on her using any significant speed to do that - unless I misread it.

Then you missed the passage i put in to show how fast Sarren is. the part where he blitzed a Master vampire and his Guards ring a bell? Being able to simply hit Sarren is a feat far and beyond anything the Winchesters have shown(to my knowledge)

But anyway, while Allison may be faster than an average Supernatural vampire, but I don't see her being too fast for Sam & Dean to handle as her feats don't really speak too loudly - but i'll wait to see if you can maybe fill in any more

I can understand that. I suppose. But besides the fact that Speed is inferred and she was able to Tag Sarren. She also once bested Kanin. Granted, she was freshly made and he was teaching her how to Handle her sword that she had just got, and was most likely going easy. It doesn't change the fact that it happened. I would give the passage, but it's in the first book that I put in storage. Take my word for it? If not them give me a week or so to get the book.

It's time to focus on Sydney more now, since I have been giving Allison too much attention, though I would see her as the bigger threat, but regardless let's continue.

that's the Point :)

In terms of using her magic abilities, how effectively and what feats does she have to support their use in a fight? The feat you posted for her invisibility type of spell was good - but she was only using that to hide and it didn't seem to be any fighting instance either.

It's a Teen Romance Novel. Not much to work with, but I will see what I can find. I know for a fact she was Trained By Ms Terwilliger to fight others. But only in aiming and shooting really.

She even went as far as to let Sydney practice on herself.

She has a familiar dragon made of quartz that is super annoying.

and if you question her aim. WATCHA

Did you see that? True Natural Talent!

but what's stopping them from one of them putting a bullet in her brain anyway? I'll await to see more of her feats - but my initial thoughts based on your post, makes me think of her as a glass cannon.

She also has a shield spell.

And an AOE Blinding Spell.

She can coat the ground in invisible Ice

She has a concussive Force spell.

A spell that sends a web out(Wink wink)

and she has a Very high level spell that transmutes metal into Blades and sends them to a target.

All of that is basically stopping them. Plus the Unnoticeable charm.

Sam & Dean also know of a specific spell used to kill witches too, however it does require time and the right ingredients to do.

and no proof it would even translate. Basically, She can Simply Blind or disorient The brothers while Allison takes their heads off.

Good post, sorry it took so long to reply. Have too look in the individual books for the passages. Considering Sydneys current series on is at 5, and Allisons is at 3, 1 of which i don't have. Things take a while.

@funsiized:

Dead Mans blood simply doesn't sate their hunger, but they can drink it just fine. As for Silver, Allison's favorite little token is a Silver Cross from Zeke. She wears it all the time. So, "Vamptonite" is not going to work, as we can tell, the vampires here and there are not the same save an allergy to wood and the Sun. As for the fact of the bullets, We are again, assuming Same and Dean have the chance to fire(Granted, they probably do) but Allison has functioned after getting shot Six times point blank, Even going so far as to be another vampire in a fight. I Think she will be fine.

Okay, Dead Man's Blood won't be effective then. However, I can still see the silver bullets putting her down - wearing a silver cross without issue doesn't mean she's taking any silver bullet. And just because the vampires are different from Supernatural and Blood Of Eden, does not automatically grant her immunity to everything that weakens or kills a Supernatural vampire - that's nothing but substandard and insufficient logic. Vamptonite is a unique mixture of a "Leviathan's Additive 3.0" and human blood, which as a side effect is fatally toxic to a vampire. So evidently, Allison has no answer to the effects of this, since the mixture exists solely inside Supernatural and there's no way to prove her resistance - therefore, Vamptonite coated bullets are certain to silence her.

Even if you could say Allison won't be killed by it, she'll still be paralyzed at the very least - perfect opportunity for them to stake and/or behead her. So when either of the Winchesters get their shot on her (and they will, i'll be explaining Dean's aiming skills with firearms momentarily), she'll be either most likely dead, or at minimum she'll be out for the count - allowing the brothers to stake her, and go two on one against the apparent glass cannon, Sydney.

Despite the fact she has many spells that could give the Winchesters trouble, there's seemingly nothing to suggest she could use these before a bullet meets her skull. Although Sam has a fair shot, it's really Dean who has the more consistent and better feats that display his skill with guns - mainly due to the training he was under from John Winchester at a young age. It was said by Dean that at the age of seven John was teaching him to shoot targets, and he bullseyed every one of them. Anyway, while injured, Dean accurately shot Azazel (who to my knowledge was usually capable of bullet timing) through the heart:

He faced Elias Finch (the Phoenix) in a close duel and managed to fire about half a second before Elias could:

With a crossbow, Dean was able to shoot a vampire initially from an unnoticeable spot and another while on the move:

And Dean managed to pull his sidearm out while his sniper was stuck, and shot a shapeshifting dog before it reached him:

I may research more episodes for some extra feats to add, but I think this should somewhat cover Dean's accuracy skills, more or less. I know Allison is faster than the Winchesters, however she will eventually have to get close in order to slice them in half - and she's certainly not fast enough to escape their sight. When that happens, Dean pulls the trigger, and she's done for. Sydney will be easier, considering she has seemingly no durability or ability to react to a bullet. Once she's gone, they can both focus their attention on Allison and Dean will be able to shoot her - i'll explain Sam's main position on the fight later.

Holy oil must be ignited, not exactly giving you that kind of time. Besides, assuming you can Ignite it, Sydney can control Flames(Pyrokenisis, remember?)

From what you've said, Allison really isn't fast enough to stop them before they can ignite a bottle. Sydney would also need to be able to show how well she can control flames and while in battle too - but she shouldn't even be able to cast a spell before Sam shoots her (I should note, i'm basing the argument off of assumption that Dean is mainly focusing on Allison and Sam on Sydney, both will still be using teamwork together as well though).

It shows Hew completely decimating a large group of rabids, and then she ends up fighting a Large, Seven foot Goliath that was able to punch through cars. While things get dicey at first, she ends up beating it, showing speed, Durability, Healing factor and Yes, shes stronger than a Rabid.

Alright, she's a lot stronger than most of the beings Sam and Dean have faced. Still, her speed is not too considerably above the fast creatures the brothers face either and they have the right gear/weapons to land the killing blow on her since she needs to get close to attack, and that's when I see the Winchesters spraying Allison with the Vamptonite bullets - that will simply just kill or paralyze her. But if she proves to be too difficult, that's where another plan commences.

Since both brothers are willing to do almost anything, are aware of how to become a vampire and are able get their hands on vampire blood, Dean will lessen the physical gap between them and Allison by turning himself into a vampire as well. Perhaps he won't be as strong, as fast or as durable, but the gap will be significantly shortened either way. This is a good plan for Dean, considering as a vampire he took out a vampire's nest by himself:

Plus, both Dean and Sam are aware of the cure - so after battle Dean can simply rid himself of vampirism. As for Sam, he should also be able to get his hands on some demons and extract their blood - so he too can go into battle hopped up on power. He will get a powerful degree of telekinesis and be able to toss around Sydney & Allison if they prove to be a difficulty, he was able to do this to Lilith:

And logically, neither of them should be alive. But I wont argue that. What I will argue is the fact that None of them simply cut the Winchesters in half. Allison has completely cut through a Tire and I have shown plenty of passages with her cutting through bodies.

Yes, but Dean's skill with a weapon is good enough to fire and shoot her once she gets close - since that's really her only way of attacking. Sam should be able to assist Dean against Allison as well, he can telekinetically grab the katana and break it, or pin Allison to the ground.

If you believe by any standard the Cass would actually Hurt dean, then we would have a problem. But i see your point. He can take Punch...cool, not helpful, but cool. Again, not really helpful, but cool. Ignoring the fact that Lucifer was literally playing with him. He could have literally snapped his fingers, but its whateve.

This is mainly in regards to the above scenario if Allison loses her katana, and the plausible case of Dean becoming a vampire should add to his durability in a hand to hand fight against Allison, along with his superior fighting skill shown when he cleansed the vampire's nest.

I disagree. The fact that the were taking those beatings is proof enough. Also, you are still making the flawed assumption that what harms your Supernatural vampires will harm Allison. Nope.

Again though, this logic isn't good enough, if Allison doesn't have anything to suggest she could resist it - she can't.

Neither did it mention that she strained. The point is, in a single leap she jumped Twenty feet. the only thing it mentions( that i left out due to laziness) is the fact that she "was careful to avoid the spikes on the other end". you can't assume she didn't make the jump as casually. She did not I assume, but I did not state that. I said she casually jumped it. It was not hard. it was not a real effort. I believe that is the definition of casual. I only put in Kanins part to show that the trench was 20ft.

Since it didn't note anything on how good/easy/casual it was, yes, many assumptions can be made on either side.

Then you missed the passage i put in to show how fast Sarren is. the part where he blitzed a Master vampire and his Guards ring a bell? Being able to simply hit Sarren is a feat far and beyond anything the Winchesters have shown(to my knowledge)

It doesn't matter how fast Sarren is, because when she took the arm off of him, I didn't see it saying anywhere that he was using any significant speed.

I can understand that. I suppose. But besides the fact that Speed is inferred and she was able to Tag Sarren. She also once bested Kanin. Granted, she was freshly made and he was teaching her how to Handle her sword that she had just got, and was most likely going easy. It doesn't change the fact that it happened. I would give the passage, but it's in the first book that I put in storage. Take my word for it? If not them give me a week or so to get the book.

I'll take your word for it, though if he was going easy, it does change the variables of the feat against her favor. Besides, even if her speed proves to be a great issue against their odds of winning the battle - they're able to use the Rabbit's Foot. It's a cursed item that brings ridiculous luck to whoever possesses it, it allowed Dean to casually evade a bullet and he precisely lodged a pencil in a gun barrel too, among many other things. However, it is prone to getting lost from the owner, and if so their luck turns into bad. Sam and Dean are aware of this though, so they'll make sure to keep it close at all times.

It's a Teen Romance Novel. Not much to work with, but I will see what I can find. I know for a fact she was Trained By Ms Terwilliger to fight others. But only in aiming and shooting really.

Even though I don't see how Sydney is lasting more than a couple of seconds based on the fact that she won't be able to stop or react to a bullet they shoot, i'll counter what you said for Sydney's spells in bullet points, instead of quoting the whole lot:

• Her aiming is decent enough I suppose, but that doesn't say anything about her reacting to a speeding bullet before she can do anything.
• The familiar dragon is a nuisance, they'll easily be able to just shoot this.
• Has her shield blocked bullets or at least something comparable to them before?
• She needs to shout an incantation to blind the opponent, giving Sam enough time to shoot her.
• It indicated that she could only enchant ice wherever she walked and she needed to perform hand arcs, Sam notices this, and bang.
• The concussive force spell is good, but Sam's telekinesis is better.
• "Should have encased her", so did it even work?
• The metal transmutation spell is quite effective i'll admit, but it takes way time for her to perform, leaving the killing opportunity for Sam.

All of that is basically stopping them. Plus the Unnoticeable charm.

Not necessarily, Sam can take her out in no time to be honest.

and no proof it would even translate. Basically, She can Simply Blind or disorient The brothers while Allison takes their heads off.

Same as the Vamptonite argument, there's no proof she could resist this - but albeit I won't focus too much on this spell unless i'm in a tight space.

Apologies if this post appears somewhat rushed, I need to go out soon enough and I wanted to have something done before then. So I hope I gave you enough to work on, and I promise a proper fledged detailed post as my next one, your move.

@pope052: Nice, lets see what i can do.

Okay, Dead Man's Blood won't be effective then. However, I can still see the silver bullets putting her down - wearing a silver cross without issue doesn't mean she's taking any silver bullet. And just because the vampires are different from Supernatural and Blood Of Eden, does not automatically grant her immunity to everything that weakens or kills a Supernatural vampire - that's nothing but substandard and insufficient logic

Actually considering the Silver cross does absolutely nothing to her(Literally, no burns, no hissing, nothing) And throughout the entire Three book series, not a single Word of Silver being a weakness has been mentioned. Even when Sarren was Torturing Kanin, he did not use Silver, only hacked away at him and let him regenerate. Kanin himself has never mentioned a weakness for silver. It's at no point brought up. You can't make up a weakness just cause it suits your needs when the weakness has been shown NOWHERE.

I am not saying she is immune to everything The supernatural vamps are. I am saying she has shown resistance to 2/3 other weaknesses, why would a fourth, that doesn't exist in her world, affect her?

Vamptonite is a unique mixture of a "Leviathan's Additive 3.0" and human blood, which as a side effect is fatally toxic to a vampire. So evidently, Allison has no answer to the effects of this, since the mixture exists solely inside Supernatural and there's no way to prove her resistance - therefore, Vamptonite coated bullets are certain to silence her.

Logical Fallacy. Everything else, save one thing, has no effect on Allie. As i said above 2/3 doesn't affect her, why should the fourth. Of course i can't argue against something that doesn't exist in her universe. I shouldn't have to as that's an impossibility. What i am trying to make clear here, is the fact that I have shown how Allie is fundamentally different in many ways from Supernatural Vampires

• Supernatural vampires have a weakness to deadmans blood-Allison has no such problem, it simply doesn't sate her hunger
• Supernatural vamps have a weakness to silver, it burns them on touch-Allies, again, has no such weakness, she wears silver around her neck at all times.
• Supernatural Vamps are descendants of Eve-Even Kanin is convinced Vampires in their world are a genetic abomination.
• Supernatural Vamps have a row of shark like teeth, Allison has two neat fangs.
• Supernatural vamps don't have different types, only age.- Their is a clear hierarchy in Blood of Eden
• supernatural Vamps only get badly sunburned-Blood of Eden Vampires practically disintegrate.
• Supernatural Vamps are Blatantly slower, possibly weaker.

On and on i could nitpick. The fact of the matter is. it is not my job to Prove Allison will not be harmed by vamptonite, I have already stated my case for that. It's up to you to prove that Vamptonite can harm a being almost completely different from what you are asserting.

Even if you could say Allison won't be killed by it, she'll still be paralyzed at the very least - perfect opportunity for them to stake and/or behead her. So when either of the Winchesters get their shot on her (and they will, i'll be explaining Dean's aiming skills with firearms momentarily), she'll be either most likely dead, or at minimum she'll be out for the count - allowing the brothers to stake her, and go two on one against the apparent glass cannon, Sydney.

Uh, no. that's not how that works. You can't say she will be weakened at the worse. you can say she will be unaffected, as everything leads to that. As for getting hit with bullets, I have already stated how she was able to fight another vampire perfectly fine even after getting shot 6 times point blank. So, with no Vamptonite poisoning, you've really just pissed her off.

Despite the fact she has many spells that could give the Winchesters trouble, there's seemingly nothing to suggest she could use these before a bullet meets her skull. Although Sam has a fair shot, it's really Dean who has the more consistent and better feats that display his skill with guns - mainly due to the training he was under from John Winchester at a young age. It was said by Dean that at the age of seven John was teaching him to shoot targets, and he bullseyed every one of them

You must have missed one of my very first statements Which is strange considering you replied to it.....

"When the Match starts, Sydney Casting and Unnoticeable spell, This keeps her unnoticeable to others until she makes eye contact OR if Someone looks Very hard for her, specifically for her. Just knowing shes there will not cut it unfortunately." -funsiized

How are they going to "bullseye" a person they can't even see?(or Notice as it goes here) Their aim is irrelevant if you don't have a target. also, please note. You also can not attempt to focus Sydney due to her Callistana making High pitched screeching noises and running around. Kinda hard to find an unnoticeable person in this situation.

From what you've said, Allison really isn't fast enough to stop them before they can ignite a bottle.

Twenty feet in a single leap is pretty fast enough IMO, but, sure. Lets assume she isn't

Sydney would also need to be able to show how well she can control flames and while in battle too - but she shouldn't even be able to cast a spell before Sam shoots her (I should note, i'm basing the argument off of assumption that Dean is mainly focusing on Allison and Sam on Sydney, both will still be using teamwork together as well though).

As for Sydney controlling Flames. Even when she was Physically Exhausted after a Few months of Torture , severely malnourished. etc.

And she was keeping them alive due to Morals, no such thing inhibits her here.

And then there is commanding wind to control the flames, or in this case, smoke.

As for her dying initially, look above.

Alright, she's a lot stronger than most of the beings Sam and Dean have faced. Still, her speed is not too considerably above the fast creatures the brothers face either and they have the right gear/weapons to land the killing blow on her since she needs to get close to attack, and that's when I see the Winchesters spraying Allison with the Vamptonite bullets - that will simply just kill or paralyze her. But if she proves to be too difficult, that's where another plan commences.

Bullets will just piss her off, but lets see this "Other plan"

Since both brothers are willing to do almost anything, are aware of how to become a vampire and are able get their hands on vampire blood, Dean will lessen the physical gap between them and Allison by turning himself into a vampire as well. Perhaps he won't be as strong, as fast or as durable, but the gap will be significantly shortened either way. This is a good plan for Dean, considering as a vampire he took out a vampire's nest by himself:

From what I know of both series, one or two Rabids could replicate the feat. Not lowballing, being serious. So you'll have to forgive me if i don't believe the gap will be "Significantly shortened" Also, the only way we have seen to become a vampire is outside interference, I.E another turning you. |If we are bringing that into the situation of prep then Sydney has a few options.....

Plus, both Dean and Sam are aware of the cure - so after battle Dean can simply rid himself of vampirism. As for Sam, he should also be able to get his hands on some demons and extract their blood - so he too can go into battle hopped up on power. He will get a powerful degree of telekinesis and be able to toss around Sydney & Allison if they prove to be a difficulty, he was able to do this to Lilith:

few problems here. Besides the vamprism thing, i addressed that. Concerning Sams powers. there are two problems there

• We don't even know if Sam has those powers anymore

Ever sense he was released From Lucifer's Cage, he has not exhibited the use of these powers, and not even mentioned them. You can't say he has them when they are for all intents and purposes, cleansed.

• Those Powers worked specifically ONLY ON DEMONS.

he has never shown TK on anything non Demon. Not once.

Yes, but Dean's skill with a weapon is good enough to fire and shoot her once she gets close - since that's really her only way of attacking. Sam should be able to assist Dean against Allison as well, he can telekinetically grab the katana and break it, or pin Allison to the ground.

• Addressed the bullets thing
• Addressed the Sam TK thing.

Again though, this logic isn't good enough, if Allison doesn't have anything to suggest she could resist it - she can't.

Sure as heck addressed that.

Even though I don't see how Sydney is lasting more than a couple of seconds based on the fact that she won't be able to stop or react to a bullet they shoot, i'll counter what you said for Sydney's spells in bullet points, instead of quoting the whole lot:

• Her aiming is decent enough I suppose, but that doesn't say anything about her reacting to a speeding bullet before she can do anything.
• The familiar dragon is a nuisance, they'll easily be able to just shoot this.
• Has her shield blocked bullets or at least something comparable to them before?
• She needs to shout an incantation to blind the opponent, giving Sam enough time to shoot her.
• It indicated that she could only enchant ice wherever she walked and she needed to perform hand arcs, Sam notices this, and bang.
• The concussive force spell is good, but Sam's telekinesis is better.
• "Should have encased her", so did it even work?
• The metal transmutation spell is quite effective i'll admit, but it takes way time for her to perform, leaving the killing opportunity for Sam.

Then i shall respond in kind

• Not the point, as the bullet is never heading towards her, indicative of my first post.
• So, they are shooting Allison, An unnoticeable Sydney and The callistana, all at once? Sounds plausible, but all of this before Sydney can get out a Blinding or Equilibrium spell? doubt it.
• No, the most a magical shield has been shown blocking is Magical daggers and A fireball.
• Doesn't need to shout it, only mutter it really. it's up to her. Besides, still not noticed.
• I put that there not as a real battle feat, only slight ingenuity on her behalf.
• Yes, but hers works on non demons :)
• She was facing another Witch who used a counter spell.
• Not really. It takes around a second or two. She did it before the enemy witch was able to get out a spell. it only looks like it took a long time due to the writing style. Richelle can make everything take ages.

Not necessarily, Sam can take her out in no time to be honest.

again, arguing around the unnoticeable charm. why? Also, I have shown her using spells with a flick of her hand, something I would say is MUCH faster than either of the brothers noticing her.

Same as the Vamptonite argument, there's no proof she could resist this

And no Argument it would affect her.

Apologies if this post appears somewhat rushed, I need to go out soon enough and I wanted to have something done before then. So I hope I gave you enough to work on, and I promise a proper fledged detailed post as my next one, your move.

No worries man. I'm mainly using this to procrastinate school work. but its real fun so far.

@funsiized:

Right, school has taken it's toll but I have everything else done and dusted now, let's get back to work:

Actually considering the Silver cross does absolutely nothing to her(Literally, no burns, no hissing, nothing) And throughout the entire Three book series, not a single Word of Silver being a weakness has been mentioned. Even when Sarren was Torturing Kanin, he did not use Silver, only hacked away at him and let him regenerate. Kanin himself has never mentioned a weakness for silver. It's at no point brought up. You can't make up a weakness just cause it suits your needs when the weakness has been shown NOWHERE.

Firstly, I never said (at least not intentionally) that silver was her weakness, but that doesn't mean it won't affect her if used offensively - and you can't blame me since you've never displayed her resistance to bullets as well, you brought up in a previous post that she was fine after getting shot six times, I don't recall you quoting where it says so. I guess i'll take your word for it, but I am still not convinced that Allison having different proportionate attributes to Supernatural vampires enables you to say that she can resist the Vamptonite mixture.

It really isn't a considerable argument to say "well, since she's almost perfectly resistant to most items that Supernatural vampires are weak to, I can therefore rightfully assume that she's also resistant to the next item after that, despite the fact that the particular thing we're discussing is unique, specific, and isn't tailored into the "Blood Of Eden" universe". And with that I can say it'll work on her, since she lacks validation to state her resistance to it.

I am not saying she is immune to everything The supernatural vamps are. I am saying she has shown resistance to 2/3 other weaknesses, why would a fourth, that doesn't exist in her world, affect her?

That's basically what your logic is entailing, that she's immune to everything Supernatural vampires are vulnerable to only based on the fact that she is quite resistant/immune/unaffected by most of what they're killed by. That doesn't cover it, and it's nothing more than ABC Logic - you can't automatically assume her immunity to Vamptonite by being reliant on other things to "prove" it. It doesn't exist in her world and that's the problem, it's then not possible to prove she's resistant to it, and therefore it'll work on her. The thing is, I shouldn't have to directly prove that it would work on her, because I cannot, but you can't prove her tolerance to it either (which is more important, based on the unique ingredients) - you have to evidence Allison's resistance.

Logical Fallacy. Everything else, save one thing, has no effect on Allie. As i said above 2/3 doesn't affect her, why should the fourth. Of course i can't argue against something that doesn't exist in her universe. I shouldn't have to as that's an impossibility. What i am trying to make clear here, is the fact that I have shown how Allie is fundamentally different in many ways from Supernatural Vampires On and on i could nitpick. The fact of the matter is. it is not my job to Prove Allison will not be harmed by vamptonite, I have already stated my case for that. It's up to you to prove that Vamptonite can harm a being almost completely different from what you are asserting.

Again, you're basing your "case" off of other and irrelevant fundamental showings to prove something completely different - classified as ABC Logic. You'll try your best to excuse this to suit your side of the argument, but your logic is undoubtedly suggesting that "Item A, B & C has worked on killing vampires in the Supernatural universe, but since Allison has resisted those, that also means the assumption that she'd be able to resist Item D (despite the fact that she has not dealt or came into contact with it or anything similar for that matter) is mostly correct".

We can argue this till kingdom come, but unless you can display a valid showing of Allison's resistance without relying on anything else other than an item proportionate or at least comparable to what we're debating - she logically shouldn't be able to, and there's no relevant or legitimate basis to say so.

Uh, no. that's not how that works. You can't say she will be weakened at the worse. you can say she will be unaffected, as everything leads to that. As for getting hit with bullets, I have already stated how she was able to fight another vampire perfectly fine even after getting shot 6 times point blank. So, with no Vamptonite poisoning, you've really just pissed her off.

And ABC Logic isn't the way to say everything leads to her resisting it in the slightest, proving her resistance is the way to go - but admittedly it isn't possible. The bullets themselves may not be able to hurt her, but the Vamptonite will be able to and all the logic points to it doing so. I have stated my case on this, I have exhibited the fact that Vamptonite differs in proportion to everything else she can/has resisted from the Leviathan's additive - and it is also designed to kill humans in seconds in the first place, so considering Allison displays no resistance to it in terms of being a vampire, we'd have to dumb it down to how it affects a human instead - to which it is still extremely lethal and killed a girl in seconds. Also, you missed the point I made about the Rabbit's Foot, and it'll be used to bring them ridiculous luck in battle leading to a very likely victory with it in their possession.

As you'll see in the following videos, the Rabbit's Foot isn't something to take on lightly, the luck it brings whoever holds onto it is totally uncanny:

• When the hunter knocked Dean's gun to the ground, it fired and the bullet ricocheted four times and also hit Sam's gun out of his hands.
• Sam barely bounced into Dean and still accidentally slammed him through a wooden table.
• The other hunter picked up the gun, aimed it at Sam, and created a mini shock-wave knocking Dean to the ground.
• Sam grabbed the Rabbit's Foot while being strangled, and easily kicked the hunter off of him.
• The hunter got back up and tried to shoot Sam at point blank, but the gun clicked despite being already loaded.
• Afterwards, the same hunter tripped over tiny debris and basically knocked himself out.
• The other hunter tried to shoot Sam, but was also KO'd by a pile of falling books, causing the gun to fly into Sam's hands.

And in the following clip when Dean had it:

• Easily throws a pen and it jams precisely into Kubrick's pistol.
• Effortlessly dodges a punch from Kubrick's accomplice causing him to run into a wall, as if he was completely unbalanced.
• Throws a remote at Kubrick's head, and knocks him out.

Granted, while they did destroy it in the end, there's a lot of ways they can use to get it back. They could summon a crossroads demon and ask for them to wish it back into their possession w/ no chance of them losing it, better yet ask Castiel to try get it back for them or summon Crowley to also make the same deal but to a higher extent. I am not planning to use Castiel or anyone else for battle just to note, only for their prep and access of equipment.

Also, Bella was aware of and noted on how the Rabbit's foot basically would've allowed Dean to sidestep every bullet she shot at him. But anyway, if you did watch all of the or at least most of the video, Allison and Sydney are going to be pretty screwed against whoever has the Rabbit's Foot, we'll assume Dean. He could easily shoot the katana out of her hands, dodge her hits, and get a headshot kill with a Vamptonite bullet. And even if it truly was ineffective against Allison, Dean's bullet will get lucky, and Allison will be killed either way - since the hunters were knocked out cold by the simple likes of books falling on top of them, tripping over negligibly small debris, running into walls and so on.

You must have missed one of my very first statements Which is strange considering you replied to it.....

"When the Match starts, Sydney Casting and Unnoticeable spell, This keeps her unnoticeable to others until she makes eye contact OR if Someone looks Very hard for her, specifically for her. Just knowing shes there will not cut it unfortunately." -funsiized How are they going to "bullseye" a person they can't even see?(or Notice as it goes here) Their aim is irrelevant if you don't have a target. also, please note. You also can not attempt to focus Sydney due to her Callistana making High pitched screeching noises and running around. Kinda hard to find an unnoticeable person in this situation.

What i'm saying is that either Winchester has the ability to shoot her before she casts any spell, at all - meaning they will do so before she can make herself invisible. Also, you didn't detail on how she goes about casting this spell either (the time it takes, and so on), and by that I don't see her being quicker than either Sam or Dean's aim, especially since Dean at least has the feats to suggest he can take her out in no time - I have shown how already. And of course if she does manage to cast the unnoticeable spell, thanks to the Rabbit's Foot, they could shoot the ground and the bullet would ricochet into Sydney.

Twenty feet in a single leap is pretty fast enough IMO, but, sure. Lets assume she isn't

There was nothing to suggest she did that casually - and since she was so impressed by Kanin's jump, it's even more likely that she didn't. Besides, this is really only applicable to jumping distance, not how fast she can run or fight in short bursts, nor her reaction speed.

As for Sydney controlling Flames. Even when she was Physically Exhausted after a Few months of Torture , severely malnourished. etc. And she was keeping them alive due to Morals, no such thing inhibits her here. And then there is commanding wind to control the flames, or in this case, smoke.

From that it sounds like she's only able to control elemental magic flames and fire of her own, this is Holy Oil.

It's very rare and only Castiel was able to get some from Jerusalem, and the flames themselves instantly kill the angel/archangel (with the exception of Michael, and perhaps Lucifer but i'm not sure on that) should they step into or touch them. I highly doubt Sydney can even control the flames, but assuming she would be what exactly could she do if they just molotov her with their bottle of Holy Oil? It's not like they're releasing flames out in the open for Sydney to control, they're going to throw the bottle directly at Sydney/Allison like so:

Bullets will just piss her off, but lets see this "Other plan"

No they won't, with nothing to say she can resist Vamponite, the Rabbit's Foot, and maybe additonal Holy Oil, they'll outright maim her.

From what I know of both series, one or two Rabids could replicate the feat. Not lowballing, being serious. So you'll have to forgive me if i don't believe the gap will be "Significantly shortened" Also, the only way we have seen to become a vampire is outside interference, I.E another turning you. |If we are bringing that into the situation of prep then Sydney has a few options.....

Perhaps not significantly, but you get what I mean. Dean becoming a vampire makes him stronger, faster and allows his fighting skill to become a lot more relevant against Allison. He may not be exactly up to her standard in the physical categories, but he'll be improved and capable of taking a hit should it come to that (this is under the impression where her katana is either taken away or destroyed). That's only being a vampire alone, and also isn't including all of the other equipment he has over Allison, and the Rabbit's Foot to significantly enhance a fight between him and Allison, but I don't see how she's going to last when hax luck is on Dean's side, as well as effective versatile equipment/weapons and even more blood lust.

few problems here. Besides the vamprism thing, i addressed that. Concerning Sams powers. there are two problems there

• · We don't even know if Sam has those powers anymore

Ever sense he was released From Lucifer's Cage, he has not exhibited the use of these powers, and not even mentioned them. You can't say he has them when they are for all intents and purposes, cleansed.

• · Those Powers worked specifically ONLY ON DEMONS.

he has never shown TK on anything non Demon. Not once.

Sam only hasn't shown them up to Season 7 since he had chose to never drink Demon Blood as of Season 5. But it was shown that even after Sam was apparently cleaned of the psychic power when he and Dean were teleported by God onto the plane in order to escape Lucifer's presence. He was still able to drink any Demon's Blood and replenish the ability shown while under Famine's influence, he fed on Demon Blood and yet gained power:

Other than that, it was never stated to my knowledge that Sam was cleansed of his psychic power after being released from Lucifer's Cage, Sam wasn't at all cleansed after he was freed from the cage, Death only put up a wall in his memory that fell relatively quick and thus he was prone to hallucinations. Plus, I would wager that the power of God would have had a bigger influence on the removal of Sam's powers than him having his memories temporarily blocked, and yet even then it only lasted until Sam consumed blood again. So yeah, there's evidence to say that if Sam had any reason to drink Demon Blood again (which he does here), he would almost certainly gain his psychic powers back.

As for Sam only using it against demons, while mostly true, that's not entirely correct either:

At it's weakest stage, Sam's psychic power was finally activated when he generated enough anger to push away the wardrobe that Max used to barricade him in the closet. When he later discovers the potential he has from Ruby, Sam decides to both train to which he consumes her demon blood to exorcise demons and use the ability only for what he thinks is good. Sam's morals stop him from using it against people in a fight, but that doesn't mean he couldn't do if he ever chose to and certainly in this scenario it's a most likely circumstance. Sam is literally gaining telekinesis alike to demons by consuming Demon Blood, since that's one of the abilities of a demon in the first place, and they're able to use it on people themselves.

So in this fight, where Sam has no morals and blood lusted, there's both the above display against Max and the amount of Demon Blood he consumes to further enhance his telekinesis to say he can use it effectively against Sydney & Allison. He only mainly uses it to defeat and exorcise demons, but since he has a showing of using it for other means and at an extremely low level of Demon Blood, i'd say there's enough going for him to say he can use it here, it's only dismissive of context to say he couldn't use it when there's something to say he could very well do so. Anyhow, since it's plausible for a moral less and blood lusted Sam to consume as much blood as necessary, he could just gather enough beforehand to easily smite Allison and Sydney:

• Addressed the bullets thing
• Addressed the Sam TK thing.
• Sure as heck addressed that.

Not quite no, using ABC Logic and dismissing the full context of things doesn't really add up to addressing a point.

Then i shall respond in kind

• Not the point, as the bullet is never heading towards her, indicative of my first post.
• So, they are shooting Allison, An unnoticeable Sydney and The callistana, all at once? Sounds plausible, but all of this before Sydney can get out a Blinding or Equilibrium spell? doubt it.
• No, the most a magical shield has been shown blocking is Magical daggers and A fireball.
• Doesn't need to shout it, only mutter it really. it's up to her. Besides, still not noticed.
• I put that there not as a real battle feat, only slight ingenuity on her behalf.
• Yes, but hers works on non demons :)
• She was facing another Witch who used a counter spell.
• Not really. It takes around a second or two. She did it before the enemy witch was able to get out a spell. it only looks like it took a long time due to the writing style. Richelle can make everything take ages.

• It'll meet her right between the eyes before she can cast any spell, Sydney has no reaction speed or durability.
• Never said they'd shoot them all at once, but Sydney is surely the first to go, she can't cast a spell before a bullet meets her skull.
• Then the shields are not going to help much against bullets, unfortunately Sydney will be dead before she realizes this.
• She still needs to recite it. And once again, she can't cast an invisibility spell, if she gets shot before she manages to.
• Alright, that's fair enough, it wouldn't have been very effective either way.
• And Sam's does as well, he's just always bound by his good intentions, not the case here.
• Okay, but still, she's dead before she can do this, among everything else, Allison is really the only lasting issue.
• And a second or two is exactly enough time for Sam or Dean to put a bullet between her eyes, simple stuff really.

The Rabbit's Foot is also very beneficial to all of the above scenarios, they won't even have to aim properly and still pinpoint Sydney's head. And even if she did manage to cast some spells, such as the unnoticeable spell, they can basically shoot anywhere and the bullet will ricochet into her.

again, arguing around the unnoticeable charm. why? Also, I have shown her using spells with a flick of her hand, something I would say is MUCH faster than either of the brothers noticing her.

It's because she can't cast it before Sam and Dean just shoot her, and mind pointing out exactly which spells where she was able to do that?

And no Argument it would affect her.

Wasn't really going to focus much on this, but even if I was, there's no evidence she could resist it bar opinionated assumptions - same applies to Allison.

No worries man. I'm mainly using this to procrastinate school work. but its real fun so far.

Thanks for giving me the time to get this up, and yes it has been some great fun, take the time you need to respond, your move.

@funsiized alright, it was a unique and interesting debate whilst it lasted - so let's hopefully get some votes :)

People who asked to be tagged:

@killerwasp@easternwind@hollow_point

And many other Supernatural fans:

This looks good. Let me read through the content and cast my vote here soon

@pope052: im a supernatural fan myself lol. Anyway give me time to red it, and i can be able to answer! xD

@funsiized: The second girl in the pic, is that Claire Holt?

Ooh, looks nice!

I'll read it over in a few and let ya know!

Jmarshmallow

@pope052: This was fun! Sorry we never really finished it. But it was great while it lasted, as for tags-

@deathhero61@veitha@arcus@those_eyes@homicidalmaniac@dondave@sync1@theorder14@jmarshmallow@thetruebarryallen@nighthunder@serrure@ancient_0f_days@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk@lowlaville

If you guys could weigh in that would be great!

This is normally not my cup of tea. But i will try to read it on my own time.

Think it's a photoshopped image of her, yes.

@funsiized: looks interesting, I'll look it over. If I haven't said anything by tomorrow (I can't watch the videos right now), remind me