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#1 Posted by Evil Incarnate (4166 posts) - - Show Bio

These are the pre 52 versions of each. Wonder Woman's stats have been reduced to that of Selina's.

Catwoman

VS

Wonder Woman

#2 Posted by Pokeysteve (8558 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Catwoman is in Diana's league. Another thread has her depowered against Ras Al Ghul and she's winning.

#3 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pokeysteve said:

I don't think Catwoman is in Diana's league. Another thread has her depowered against Ras Al Ghul and she's winning.

And I'm wondering why on earth people are saying that. What has she done without her powers to put her in Ra's league? Or even Selina's?

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#4 Posted by Nefarious (21959 posts) - - Show Bio

Are there any scans of a de-powered Wonder Woman performing feats?

#5 Posted by TerryBogard2014 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder woman.shes a better fighter

#6 Posted by CrimsonCake (2682 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

Are there any scans of a de-powered Wonder Woman performing feats?

At one point,They took away Wonder woman's powers and made her a martial artist.So maybe that version?

#7 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonCake said:

@Nefarious said:

Are there any scans of a de-powered Wonder Woman performing feats?

At one point,They took away Wonder woman's powers and made her a martial artist.So maybe that version?

That version is Pre-Crisis.

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#8 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

And even that version of Wonder Woman's feats were almost solely restricted to whaling on fodder.

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#9 Posted by Nefarious (21959 posts) - - Show Bio
@CrimsonCake said:

@Nefarious said:

Are there any scans of a de-powered Wonder Woman performing feats?

At one point,They took away Wonder woman's powers and made her a martial artist.So maybe that version?

Interesting.
#10 Posted by BatWatch (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

We know Selina got her butt handed to her while fighting Shiva, and that Wonder Woman is probably in the top fifty martial arts fighters in the world. Without Selina being able to even land a blow of Shiva, I'd say Wonder Woman would probably beat Selina solidly, but Selina might get a few good hits in.

#11 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@CrimsonCake said:

@Nefarious said:

Are there any scans of a de-powered Wonder Woman performing feats?

At one point,They took away Wonder woman's powers and made her a martial artist.So maybe that version?

That version is Pre-Crisis.

Right at the beginning of Wonder Woman vol 3, they established that I Ching and Wonder Woman's pre-Crisis canon carried over to Post Crisis in the year that she was absent from the rest of the DCU.

#12 Posted by UltraBiel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't forget, even without powers Diana has thousand years of amazonian training.

She wins obviously!

#13 Posted by AKA_TERMINATOR (332 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think any version of Wonder Woman could beat Catwoman.

#14 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@UltraBiel: ww is thousands of years old? really?

#15 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion said:

@UltraBiel: ww is thousands of years old? really?

She's got her 1000 years of combat experience from the war in Asgard alongside Superman.

#16 Posted by UltraBiel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines said:

@KainScion said:

@UltraBiel: ww is thousands of years old? really?

She's got her 1000 years of combat experience from the war in Asgard alongside Superman.

I Thought so! Isn't she as old as the Amazon Culture? I mean, the events that lead the amazons to their exile is thousand years old...

#17 Posted by KMART4455 (1290 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman beats Catwoman with ease.. Even if she was powerless..

#18 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion said:

@UltraBiel: ww is thousands of years old? really?

No. She was in her 20/30s until she went to another dimension with Superman for a 1000 years. So if we include that, she is just a little over a 1000 years old... just like Superman.

#19 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8385 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana lol.

She's so much more skilled then Selina it isn't funny. Well maybe a little.

Sorry Catwoman.

#20 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure but I'm giving it to Catwoman.

#21 Posted by Strafe Prower (11888 posts) - - Show Bio

We can't really judge this....

#22 Edited by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

De-Powered WW trained by I-Ching

#23 Posted by The_Pendulem (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought curb stomps weren't allowed hahaha. WW would destroy Cat Woman it's very unfair, even powerless her Amazonian Training makes her one of the greatest fighters on the entire planet earth.

#24 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

@CrimsonCake said:

@Nefarious said:

Are there any scans of a de-powered Wonder Woman performing feats?

At one point,They took away Wonder woman's powers and made her a martial artist.So maybe that version?

That version is Pre-Crisis.

Right at the beginning of Wonder Woman vol 3, they established that I Ching and Wonder Woman's pre-Crisis canon carried over to Post Crisis in the year that she was absent from the rest of the DCU.

Ok, but again, all that version ever did was ruin the lives of thugs.

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#25 Posted by imbackwimps (1064 posts) - - Show Bio

catwoman easy ,she is more use to fighting without powers WW goes down

#26 Posted by ninjas4321 (48 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines:

wait Asgard = thor and norse gods does that meen she fought thor

#27 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Ok, but again, all that version ever did was ruin the lives of thugs.

Meh I do not know either way. I never read the Pre-Crisis issues lol. I have read every Post Crisis WW title though.

#28 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

Ok, but again, all that version ever did was ruin the lives of thugs.

Meh I do not know either way. I never read the Pre-Crisis issues lol. I have read every Post Crisis WW title though.

I read all of the depowered Wonder Woman issues just for this thread: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/kung-fu-wonder-woman-vs-punk-storm/671632/?page=last#reply_form

She didn't do a whole lot that Selina hasn't done ten times over.

I do not disagree. I do think her fighting prowess from when she is powered matters though because she still uses her technical knowledge during fights. She just happens to be fighting with speed, strength, blah blah blah.

#30 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@ninjas4321 said:

@Jayfournines:

wait Asgard = thor and norse gods does that meen she fought thor

actually they were fighting on Thor's side until he went down and he entrusted Superman with mjolnir if I am not mistaken

#31 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
@Erik said:


I do not disagree. I do think her fighting prowess from when she is powered matters though because she still uses her technical knowledge during fights. She just happens to be fighting with speed, strength, blah blah blah.

Exactly. She's a trained warrior who just so happens to also have superhuman abilities. She was briefly de-powered in the first couple issues of WW vol.3 if I remember and she beat Captain Nazi (I may be wrong about that though I'd have to double check). She also (back in the jean jacket days) held her own against Cheshire and I think Poison Ivy. Add in the fact that Black Canary credits being trained by WW and what else do you need? Catwoman's h2h skill has never been adequate enough to train anyone, certainly nobodys ever gone to her for training.
Also who she beat during her period of I-Ching training is moot. Its the descriptions of her martial arts ability thats the point. Pressure points, nerve strikes, and thought and action being one.
#32 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: She judo-flipped Nazi through a wall, which in my opinion is more than a bit ridiculous (but Nazi has no fighting skill himself and can't weigh more than a normal man, so I'll allow it) and then used some kind of gum-gun to temporarily blind him. That was about it. She then changed into Wonder Woman and used her powers to beat him like a dog. She also had some level of power while fighting Cheshire and Ivy, I know she could fly and she had enough endurance to fight while being poisoned with a dose large enough to kill a sequoia. Beating Cheshire is decent, I guess, but Cheshire is frequently a joke, and Ivy didn't even use her powers while fighting Diana. For some reason she thought a H2H fight was her best shot, and Ivy has no H2H skill to speak of. Black Canary's training with Wonder Woman as far as I know was limited on-panel to one sparring match.

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#33 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane:

Sparring with WW one time is not enough though? Even Batman thinks sparring with WW is a worthwhile experience. While I would never say that her fighting skill is even with his, I do think that Batman finds her to be a noteworthy fighter or he would not bother. He does not seem interested in sparring with the man of steel despite the Kryptonian martial arts Superman is sometimes an expert in. So I would not dismiss it as just Batman wanting to know learn her fighting style.

#34 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

On the fence with this one.

#35 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give this to Diana, but Selina will put up a hell of a fight. I see WW having a hard time in the begining trying to cope with her lowered physical abilities, but she takes on a cat themed villain for a living, has the lasso of truth, and her braclets. I think she wins.

#36 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: Batman has trained Superman in boxing and the use of pressure points in combat. Batman spars with Wonder Woman, sure, but his options for sparring partners among the JLA elite are pretty limited considering none of the others like Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, etc are particularly interested in any of that kung-fu hooey. Wonder Woman's the only one with any inclination towards combat beyond punching things until they break, so it may not necessarily be that he considers her a noteworthy fighter; she might be the only other fighter the League has so he can't really be choosy.

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#37 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@Gambler: She judo-flipped Nazi through a wall, which in my opinion is more than a bit ridiculous (but Nazi has no fighting skill himself and can't weigh more than a normal man, so I'll allow it) and then used some kind of gum-gun to temporarily blind him. That was about it. She then changed into Wonder Woman and used her powers to beat him like a dog. She also had some level of power while fighting Cheshire and Ivy, I know she could fly and she had enough endurance to fight while being poisoned with a dose large enough to kill a sequoia. Beating Cheshire is decent, I guess, but Cheshire is frequently a joke, and Ivy didn't even use her powers while fighting Diana. For some reason she thought a H2H fight was her best shot, and Ivy has no H2H skill to speak of. Black Canary's training with Wonder Woman as far as I know was limited on-panel to one sparring match.

Just her using Gum-Gun is more then Catwoman's ever been shown to do isnt? WW's trained with BC (not sure if its just the one panel or not but Canary mentions it during her fight with Savant) Lady Shiva, Batman, etc. Cheshire is used as a jobber but she still has some nice h2h feats here and there as well as some nice dialog describing her fighting prowess. I'm not Catwoman expert so I'm curious what has she ever been shown to do or know in the way of h2h combat? All I remember is one fight were Canary teamed with her against Shiva and they decided to run, and then the famous Hush fight in which she was owned 9 different ways and left bloody on the floor. Of course thats against Shiva who like Cheshire is known to job. Catwoman's a great acrobat and looked decent against Harley Quinn but there wasnt any real attempt to display her as a notable h2h fighter. She landed several shots even starting the fight by attacking Quinn when she wasnt looking and she wasnt even able to bloody her. I dont think she's ever been shown to use pressure points or nerve strikes, or even have dialog describing her as using authenticated techniques.
#38 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik: Batman has trained Superman in boxing and the use of pressure points in combat. Batman spars with Wonder Woman, sure, but his options for sparring partners among the JLA elite are pretty limited considering none of the others like Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, etc are particularly interested in any of that kung-fu hooey. Wonder Woman's the only one with any inclination towards combat beyond punching things until they break, so it may not necessarily be that he considers her a noteworthy fighter; she might be the only other fighter the League has so he can't really be choosy.

Batman has trained Superman because Superman is a terrible fighter (depending on how convenient it is that he remembers he is a master Kryptonian-fuer or whatever). He does not spar with Superman though nor does he train WW. Batman can spar with any number of characters that have considerable fighting skill, so he is not limited at all. So really I have to wonder if you are really planning on standing by that statement or if you were just trying to rub me the wrong way for lulz.

#39 Posted by Mercy_ (92997 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler:

Wonder Woman and Diana sparred in BOP 68, IIRC. It was a three or four page ordeal and as far as I know, that's the extent of what happened between them regarding training or anything like that.

I've got the scans if you want them.

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#40 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mercy_: Thanks but I've seen the panels. I'm more talking about the fact that Black Canary, a character most fans agree is a top level h2h fighter, while name dropping fighters who have trained her (Shiva, Cass, Wildcat, etc) also drops WW's name in there. That to me suggests that skill wise Canary holds WW in and around the same area as the others.
#41 Posted by Mercy_ (92997 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: I don't disagree.

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#42 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mercy_ said:

@Gambler: I don't disagree.

I know you dont just having a conversation/free flowing ideas/assumptions :D
#43 Posted by Saren (26026 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Gambler: She judo-flipped Nazi through a wall, which in my opinion is more than a bit ridiculous (but Nazi has no fighting skill himself and can't weigh more than a normal man, so I'll allow it) and then used some kind of gum-gun to temporarily blind him. That was about it. She then changed into Wonder Woman and used her powers to beat him like a dog. She also had some level of power while fighting Cheshire and Ivy, I know she could fly and she had enough endurance to fight while being poisoned with a dose large enough to kill a sequoia. Beating Cheshire is decent, I guess, but Cheshire is frequently a joke, and Ivy didn't even use her powers while fighting Diana. For some reason she thought a H2H fight was her best shot, and Ivy has no H2H skill to speak of. Black Canary's training with Wonder Woman as far as I know was limited on-panel to one sparring match.

Just her using Gum-Gun is more then Catwoman's ever been shown to do isnt? WW's trained with BC (not sure if its just the one panel or not but Canary mentions it during her fight with Savant) Lady Shiva, Batman, etc. Cheshire is used as a jobber but she still has some nice h2h feats here and there as well as some nice dialog describing her fighting prowess. I'm not Catwoman expert so I'm curious what has she ever been shown to do or know in the way of h2h combat? All I remember is one fight were Canary teamed with her against Shiva and they decided to run, and then the famous Hush fight in which she was owned 9 different ways and left bloody on the floor. Of course thats against Shiva who like Cheshire is known to job. Catwoman's a great acrobat and looked decent against Harley Quinn but there wasnt any real attempt to display her as a notable h2h fighter. She landed several shots even starting the fight by attacking Quinn when she wasnt looking and she wasnt even able to bloody her. I dont think she's ever been shown to use pressure points or nerve strikes, or even have dialog describing her as using authenticated techniques.

If you mean has Catwoman ever used tech in combat, she defeated Zeiss with a flashbang that Batman gave her during her book's tie-in to War Games. I have some Catwoman feats here:

Bullet dodging:

Those are from fodder thugs. These are bullet dodging feats against Deathstroke and Deadshot. The latter is more impressive because she moves fast enough to swing Captain Boomerang around before the bullet can hit her.

Beats a Clayface-esque shapeshifter:

Beats Black Mask:

Scan 1: Moves fast enough that Captain Cold (who is pretty damn fast himself) is impressed by her speed. Scan 2-4: Beats Mr. Freeze.

Beats Hush, and tags Zeiss, a man who sees in slow motion and reacts several times faster than human beings are capable of:

Solo's the JLA. *straight face*

From the DCnU, beats up Reach:

Beats Wildcat:

Beats him again in a sparring match:

Shiva demolished Catwoman in Hush, but that was hardly unexpected. I do not consider Wonder Woman to be in Shiva's league either. As for your point about Catwoman never having trained anyone.......she's not really the kind of character who trains people, is she? She's a thief. She avoids non-essential contacts. She did train Kitrina Falcone but that was a short-lived arrangement.

@Erik said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Erik: Batman has trained Superman in boxing and the use of pressure points in combat. Batman spars with Wonder Woman, sure, but his options for sparring partners among the JLA elite are pretty limited considering none of the others like Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, etc are particularly interested in any of that kung-fu hooey. Wonder Woman's the only one with any inclination towards combat beyond punching things until they break, so it may not necessarily be that he considers her a noteworthy fighter; she might be the only other fighter the League has so he can't really be choosy.

Batman has trained Superman because Superman is a terrible fighter (depending on how convenient it is that he remembers he is a master Kryptonian-fuer or whatever). He does not spar with Superman though nor does he train WW. Batman can spar with any number of characters that have considerable fighting skill, so he is not limited at all. So really I have to wonder if you are really planning on standing by that statement or if you were just trying to rub me the wrong way for lulz.

Yeah, but he could have trained anyone else in the League as well, but he only trained Superman. Why does he only consider Superman's training worthwhile? He also trained Supergirl a bit, or so she claimed during New Krypton. Batman can spar with any number of characters, but how many of them are usually on the Watchtower, which is where he spars with Wonder Woman?

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#44 Posted by Mercy_ (92997 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

assumptions :D

You know what they say :o

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#45 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler: catwoman was actually trained by the same sensei that trained hellhound. and catwoman's two previous series show catwoman being a fairly skilled h2h combatant. as for training people she helped train holly robinson to take her place as catwoman while she was pregnant. and i believe she briefly took catgirl under wing. 
#46 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Yeah, but he could have trained anyone else in the League as well, but he only trained Superman. Why does he only consider Superman's training worthwhile? He also trained Supergirl a bit, or so she claimed during New Krypton. Batman can spar with any number of characters, but how many of them are usually on the Watchtower, which is where he spars with Wonder Woman?

Not sure the 'why' matters considering he has not taken the time to spar with him now that Superman is trained.

#47 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane: Who she beat isnt the point. Using flashbangs has nothing to do with h2h skill so I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything, same with dodging bullets. You wanted to discount WW beating Cap Nazi but Catwoman beating Wildcat is legit o_O the reflexes and bullet dodging are all in line with her acrobatic prowess which I already commented on. My point was, and still is, she has not been shown to use any authenticated h2h techniques were as WW has on multiple occasions.
#48 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
@charlieboy said:
@Gambler: catwoman was actually trained by the same sensei that trained hellhound. and catwoman's two previous series show catwoman being a fairly skilled h2h combatant. as for training people she helped train holly robinson to take her place as catwoman while she was pregnant. and i believe she briefly took catgirl under wing. 
Oh nice, nice. Good looking out. This is more what I'm referring to as far as feats. You wouldnt happen to know off hand what issue she was trained by Hellhound' sensei would you? Or what issue it was referenced?
#49 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler: catwoman also was trained by wildcat now that i am thinking of it and helped her to train holly robinson. 
#50 Posted by charlieboy (7171 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler
i believe this is the issue. it goes over her origin and tells why hellhound hates her so much.